Magnezone (Analytic) [QC please read SDS' latest post]

[Lord of Bays]

If the set doesn't make it through, should I do a rewrite of the Specs set as I'm the author of that set originally?

[Pocket]

Thanks for the support Cherub Agent! I agree that the nay-sayers should try this set out first to truly understand the power difference between Analytic and regular Magnezone.

Lord of Bays, Analytic Magnezone is powerful with or without Specs. I found the ability to set up a Substitute and switch moves crucial for breaking down teams than Specs, which is more hit-and-run. Metal Sound or Charge Beam boosts also allow Magnezone to overcome mons that Specs Magnezone could not, such as CM Latias and Blissey.

I hope Straw Hat Luffy and Seven Deadly Sins reconsider their initial rejections. 394 SAtk and free LO boost is nothing to scoff at when coupled with STAB Thunder.

[Lord of Bays]

H'okay.

[Jimera0]

Alright, reading through this thread I have to say I'm honestly really dissapointed with those members of the QA team that rejected this set out of hand. It's clear they didn't approach it with an open mind... or actually do any research into it, since it's pretty damn clear from the testimonies of people who've actually USED it that it kicks some serious ass.

I don't think I really have anything more to add at this point, but I would be sorely disappointed if this didn't end up on the site. I'm still trying to figure out what happened to Alexwolf's anti-volt-turn Tangrowth, which I used myself and found ridiculously useful (and broke the top 100 with). I think I might have to remake that one myself actually...

[malomyotismon]

Tested it out for a week on smogon and my god this thing hits like a truck, but it's so easy to take advantage of it's weaknesses to fighting, fire and ground. Being slow sucks for magnezone before and it really sucks for maznezone even more when it's trying to kill mon's, it's just too easy to take advantage of mag's weakness for this set to be sucessful.

[Pocket]

What you just outlined is a universal flaw of Magnezone not unique to this particular set. Unless you're running ScarfMagnezone, any Magnezone will be vulnerable to super effective revenge-killers. This Magnezone has some usable bulk to switch in on numerous occasions, and it has Substitute to shield itself from such revenge killers.

[Bluewind]

What he means is that it's hard to use something that's not meant to be used as a pure sweeper when said thing has exploitable weaknesses and low Speed. All Magnezones suffer of that, but only this one can't kill the things it's supposed to, and should have way more things that help it set itself apart.

[Pocket]

Yea, this is not meant to be a Special Sweeper by any means, it's more of a Special Tank that can switch into a resisted hit and break through walls (I've taken out Blissey and Latias before).

Like I said before, most people end up keeping their Steel-types in anyways, since they don't expect an Analytic Magnezone. Even if they do know, that will still provide Magnezone free opportunities to put up a Sub and / or dish out hard hits on the switch (analytic boost!) Having a defensive Steel-types almost becomes a liability, since it lets Magnezone switch in with impunity.

This Pokemon can potentially act as a supporter like the conventional sets, if people don't realize the absence of Magnet Pull, but it acts as a powerful special force within my team that can singlehandedly rip holes. A STAB Thunder coming off of a 394 Special Attack and bolstered by a free LO boost is no joke. Look at my replays in the previous page, and you'll know what I mean.

[zdrup15]

Ok, I had some doubts about this but I'm convinced now so I'll approve. It's still the least effective Magnezone set so it should be the last in the analysis. Anyway:

QC APPROVED 2/3

[wilson46]

Add Flash Cannon and HP Grass to AC and its good to go. Otherwise, this set is all right I suppose, and some of Pocket's logs are definitely convincing enough for me.

QC APPROVED (3/3)

edit: oops i'm a moron

[Bluewind]

Originally Posted by Fat Pocket

Like I said before, most people end up keeping their Steel-types in anyways, since they don't expect an Analytic Magnezone.

Please refrain from letting this sway you into thinking this is remotely a Steel trapper.

(Also doesn't Analytic fail vs Blissey?)

[jc104]

Well, Specs Thunder does up to 50% on the switch, and the following one does up to 40%, so if you have hazards up or Blissey is a bit weakened you can take it out. But that's obviously not reliable by any means.

@wilson46: that's confusing. You do realise that flash cannon is the primary option atm, slashed with a move that would be useless with the listed primary item? Plus, I must attest to its usefulness. If the opponent has a ground type this is the move you will likely be using.

[Pocket]

A Specs Volt Switch boosted by Analytic easily shaves off 25% from Blissey's health. If Blissey switches in the second time, a Specs Analytic Thunder would inflict 43% min, easily finishing off Blissey.

I think in that particular instance, I was able to nab a Charge Beam boost beforehand, so when Blissey switched into Thunder, it was in checkmate position. Even if I could not 2HKO, Blissey would have been forced to Softboiled as Magnezone simply fish for Charge Beam boosts.

[Bluewind]

Originally Posted by Fat Pocket

Even if I could not 2HKO, Blissey would have been forced to Softboiled as Magnezone simply fish for Charge Beam boosts.

Exactly like standart Magnezone...?

[Pocket]

Well, Blissey switched into a +1 Analytic-boosted Thunder, forcing it to Softboiled - if I had a regular Magnezone, I would not have been able to pressure or take out Blissey like that.

[Bluewind]

Well Analytic did like 10% more damage (not to mention he could have just gone Blissey on the CB)... but oh well I think this is pointless since it got approved.

[malomyotismon]

Originally Posted by Fat Pocket

What you just outlined is a universal flaw of Magnezone not unique to this particular set. Unless you're running ScarfMagnezone, any Magnezone will be vulnerable to super effective revenge-killers. This Magnezone has some usable bulk to switch in on numerous occasions, and it has Substitute to shield itself from such revenge killers.

Not really, magnezones other purpose is to trap steels and really it dose not need to be seedy gonzales to function in that role as steel types either can't hurt him or are slower than him before he hits back, now your taking him out of that role and it's a whole new ball game where speed really dose matter, he is too slow to sweep too weak to tank, fire, fighting and ground type moves are everywhere especially on many thing's he wants to kill. Sure he can set up a sub on starmie and few thing's that can't touch him, prevent a revenge kill, but really that's the best he can hope for, he really isn't going to be anything other a pain you have to sacrifice for, the element of surprise and hitting like a truck only account for so much, once people know what there dealing with, being individuals or everyone in the metagame, he won't really be able to do much when people are prepared for him tbh. Much better special sweepers and tank out there than poor little maggy.

[Pocket]

Bluewind, I was merely telling you what happened. I am aware that he could have switched into Charge Beam, and Blissey would fare just as well as other Magnezone. Still doesn't change the fact that Analytic Magnezone dishes out more damage than Magnet Pull Magnezone.

Afti, mention wilson46's HP Grass, but specify that this alternative is for the Specs set, since the Sub set would want the superior coverage of HP Ice.

Also AC Mention Metal Sound, which allows Magnezone to more quickly take down Blissey, Chansey, and Latias than Charge Beam. Even more, it also encourages switches, which would make the opponent vulnerable to Analytic-boosted hits.

[Seven Deadly Sins]

If "this set" is going on-site, then it needs facets of both opinions- specifically, just slash Analytic onto the Specs set, and then make a second "analytic booster" set. The two sets are WAY too different to be crammed into a single set.

[jc104]

The main issue there, SDS, is that the Analytic Specs set is much better than the "Analytic booster". The analytic booster might not be worth a set on its own.

But yes, I do agree that they are much too different to be one set.

[Seven Deadly Sins]

If it's not worth a set on its own it shouldn't get a set. OO exists for that exact reason.

Analytic Specs plays the same as Trapper Specs, and has the exact same moves, it just hits harder and doesn't trap steels. There is no real reason to have two sets on the analysis for Specs, especially when one is two sets shoehorned together.

[Zecram]

A question: How i can use this analytic Magnezone effectively well in Sun teams?

The main problem is not able to use thunder, due to reduced accuracy..

[Pocket]

Originally Posted by Fat Seven Deadly Sins

If "this set" is going on-site, then it needs facets of both opinions- specifically, just slash Analytic onto the Specs set, and then make a second "analytic booster" set. The two sets are WAY too different to be crammed into a single set.

Although I am not in total agreement here, it is an option. A non-choiced Analytic set like the following could work.

name: Substitute & Analytic
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Charge Beam / Metal Sound
item: Leftovers
ability: Analytic
nature: Modest
EVs: same

AC mention Thunder > TB and Flash Cannon for the last slot.

What do other QC members think?

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Well... Hate to be a stick in the mud, but looking at the on-site set, it's basically exactly the same at that point. Obviously HP Ice would be emphasized over HP Fire because you no longer trap Ferrothorn, but as it stands, these are just Analytic versions of 2 already onsite sets. Flash Cannon is already slashed on the last slot on the on-site version, and in general, I think it's just as good to slash Analytic onto both nearly identical sets, with a note that Analytic wants more bulk since it doesn't need to press any Speed advantages.

[Pocket]

I believe Magnezone with Analytic is an entirely different beast than the Steel Trapper. Magnet Pull Magnezone does not hit as hard as Analytic Mangezone, and Analytic Magnezone cannot trap Steels like Magnet Pull Magnezone. I personally feel there should be an Analytic set in separation from all the other Magnezone sets to differentiate the niche of Analytic Magnezone from its conventional role as a Steel Killer.