Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

[Peterko]

Originally Posted by Fat atsync

How many sp att EVs are required to guarantee 2HKO on Magnezone with Surf?

169 spA to always 2HKO sets 34.
139 spA to always 2HKO set 2.
126 spA to always 2HKO set 1.

12 spA because you took away a stat point from Speed? Well, I´ve thought about that, but just looks at the speed tiers, there´s some things I´d like to have a shot at outspeeding, even if it´s a coinflip.

122 Dewgong 2, Gyarados 1, Ludicolo 4, Skarmory 2, Victreebel 234
121 Blaziken 12, Chandelure 1, Mamoswine 1, Scrafty 2

I don´t feel like doing an Icicle Spear analysis right now lol - meaning how much Atk points can I take away but still score important KOs. Spear is still the main attack and should be as strong as possible.

I´m not only considering Naughty Surf, but already started a streak with it...well actually it´s 14 battles and I used Smash Omastar to test how well it works in the same place as Cloy. Weak Armor Smash Oma with Surf-Beam-HP Rock (the one I used in doubles with Surf over Muddy Water). It does great damage but it´s much more difficult to set up/pull off a sweep than with Cloy. Also some stuff survived 366 spA Surfs with low red HP and that´s the earlier rounds with lower IVs ... Spear is 15% stronger plus multi-hit with an over 27% CH chance, I´d say broken but gladly say thank you instead :)

[Dark Arceus]

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

Here´s the rest of it.

The whole guide will be part of my 623 streak post (link is in my sig).

How to use Cloyster-Garchomp-Suicune, part III

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Regirock – DANGER! This one´s tougher to handle than it seems. Smash + Spear. Razor Shell is kind of risky plus it activates Custap Explosion, so you´ll lose 1,5 Pokémon. Finish off with Quake or Scald. Smash first because set 4 uses Rock Polish, which flinches with Slide and then Explodes.
Registeel – Suicune. You should be able to stall/set up even if it´s the Rock Polish set 2 with ThunderPunch (max 50 dmg doesn´t break your 51 HP Sub).
Reuniclus – DANGER! This is similar to Musharna. It´s very bulky and survives +2 Spear. You´re better off using Spear twice, hope for some CHs. Set 4 will TrickOrb so you only get 2 turns.
Rhyperior – Smash + Spear. The super defense monster set 3 will survive a +2 STAB SE Spear with Solid Rock, not many other Pokémon can do that. On the other hand, Cloy doesn´t care about Payback.
Roserade – Spear or Smash+Spear, why? Because Sludge Bomb poisons. Maybe set 3 will Leaf Storm instead, but who knows. The other sets are annoyers.
Salamence – Smash + Spear. Set 1 has Scary Face, set 2 Slide flinch...but Sala is overall a good and safe Smash candidate. Don´t forget Intimidate.
Samurott – Suicune. A bulky water = a job for Cune. Set 4 knows Grass Knot but you should have plenty of CMs under your belt by the time it starts using that. Noticed the AI doesn´t consider GK 100 base power against Cune and uses other attacks first.
Sawk – Smash + Spear.
Sceptile – Smash + Spear sets 2-4, Spear set 1 or if you don´t know the set. Set 1 has Leaf Storm + QA which beats Smash. Fast grass type with strong STAB attacks, the team doesn´t like that, get rid of this ASAP.
Scizor – DANGER! Bug/Steel, Cloyster doesn´t like those. Razor Shell is a joke, but I use it. Go for the defense drop so that Garchomp has an easier time finishing this off. Also watch the dmg output to see if it´s Technician or Swarm. It´s possible to set up Cune on Swarm set 4. Set 3 knows SD, holds a LO and may U-Turn. Watch out for that. Scizor is one of those Pokémon that Cloyster can and will often lose to.
Scrafty – DANGER! Bulky as hell plus STAB fighting attacks. Garchomp will have to finish it off, should Cloy fail. It happens.
Seismitoad – Smash + Spear. Set 1 Sludge Wave poisons, but is set up bait for Cune.
Serperior – DANGER! Similar to Sceptile, but worse because of Powder set 3. Serp can take a hit and Leaf Storm hurts. It´s probably best to Spear, because the odd Leaf Tornado lowers accuracy.
Shiftry – Smash + Spear
Shuckle – DANGER! More like annoying thing. Most of the time, you´ll live with a +2, but at low health maybe only able to KO one more Pokémon. Smash + attack. Set 4 stalls like crazy with Toxic+Protect, Set 3 knows DT but even Aerial Ace should be enough after the Power Trick. Hmm set 1 uses Gastro Acid and Power Split, but you´ll be able to get to +6, which should be enough for the rest of the battle. Watch out for Encore though.
Skarmory – DANGER! +2 Spear is not a sure KO on the WW or Roar sets. You KO the Scarf set though.
Skuntank – Smash + Spear. I remember a few instances where this annoyed me. Don´t underestimate LO Foul Play and Taunt.
Slaking – Smash twice + Spear.
Slowbro – Suicune. You should fully set up on each set.
Slowking – Suicune. Set 3 Specs Psychic hurts like hell though. Not sure which attack it uses against Cloy. You have to stall with Cune and set up on Struggle (with Cloy).
Snorlax – DANGER! Thick Fat, max defense on all sets. I use Razor Shell to get a def. drop. You should do enough damage for Chomp to finish off. Chomp´s Outrage does 117-138/235 = 49,8-58,7% against sets 123 and 106-126/235 = 45-53,6% against set 4.
Spiritomb - Smash + Spear if you feel like it, otherwise set up Cune. Beware of set 2 Taunt.
Staraptor – Smash + Spear
Starmie – DANGER!!! If you misplay, you´ll lose easily. If it´s set 4 (Psychic), switch to Chomp-Bolt, switch to Cune-Beam, repeat until you PP waste Ice Beam and then Outrage relatively safely. Outrage does 129-153 dmg / 135 HP, so a 75% OHKO (12/16) and one of the main reasons Chomp is Scarfed. Otherwise, Starmie would own this team badly. Against the other sets, you can risk Smash + Rock Blast, which always KOs unless you miss. Also, Cune should be able to set up against those 3.
Steelix – Smash + Spear/Razor Shell. Lix will take a few hits though. The QC Stone Edge set 3 one is able to beat Cloy and will Explode next turn.
Suicune – Suicune. There´s no way that your Cune loses to the AI´s. If you PP waste the attacks, you can set up +6 Cloy. One of the very rare occasions.
Swampert – Smash + Spear. It will probably survive the first.
Tangrowth – DANGER! Physical defensive Grass type. Similar to Leafeon and as dangerous. Set 4 Lax Incense is really bad. Consider a turn 1 Icicle Spear.
Tauros – Intimidate. Smash + Spear, but it´ll probably survive.
Tentacruel – DANGER! I´m not sure though. Set 4 has max defense, so Rock Blast won´t do much. You should definitely do some damage, because set 3 is Sashed. Chomp is a good check with Quake.
Terrakion – Smash + Spear. You outspeed the Scarf one (240) after the Smash (244), Spear always KOs even through Sitrus. Sacred Sword having a higher base power than Slide means Smashing is safe.
Throh – Smash + Spear, lives though. Isn´t as dangerous as Hariyama or Conkeldurr, but don´t underestimate it.
Thundurus – DANGER! Instead of Bolt/Discharge/Volt Switch, sets 2 and 4 can Focus Blast, which the incoming Chomp doesn´t like. Sets 234 have a 12,5% chance to survive an Outrage. Set 1 can only Toxic against Chomp. Sometimes I boldly Smash, sometimes I switch.
Togekiss – DANGER! Sets 134 use Thunder Wave. Set 2 does surprisingly much damage with ExtremeSpeed if Hustle. I do switch to Chomp and Outrage 2HKOs..well it doesn´t. Set 4 is nasty thanks to Sitrus and survives a Spear as well. Its Air Slash does 36% max to Chomp. This is a tough one. Sacrifice Cloy and hit with Spear against set 4, otherwise use Chomp.
Tornadus – Smash + Spear. Don´t be surprised if Hurricane confuses you. Most of the time, it Focus Blasts, I think.
Torterra – Smash + Spear.
Toxicroak – Smash + Spear. Sludge Bomb poisons and sets 1 & 4 know Taunt and Sucker Punch. You should be able to set up. If not, you have Chomp.
Typhlosion – Smash + Razor Shell / Rock Blast. You´ll outspeed the Scarf Eruption set after a Smash. Set 1 holds Passho, so it can survive Razor Shell. You should know the set after you Smash. Set 1 uses Thrower, Set 2 Inferno (if it hits Cloy falls) or Focus Blast, set 3 uses Eruption and set 4 uses Power Herb SolarBeam. If Cloy fails, Cune sets up on 234 easily, SunnyBeam set 1 could be troublesome. Chomp´s Quake OHKOs though.
Tyranitar – DANGER! I switch to Chomp. With Sand Veil, there´s a good chance it avoids the Rock attack. Set 1 Thunder Waves and then either Flings or Stealth Rocks as it survives your Quake. Set 2 knows Ice Beam, but it obviously won´t use it on the switch, plus it´s hasty with 0 HP / 0 def which means Quake always OHKOs. You should OHKO set 3 as well, unless you roll absolutely minimum damage. Set 4 likes Superpower but it´s Sashed. What I do against set 4 is set up Cune after the atk drop. After a few CMs it will try to Dragon Tail you out, which does laughable damage and you should be always behind a Sub.
Umbreon – Smash + Spear. You will need a couple of Spears. If for some reason Cloyster falls (confusion hax, for example), set up Cune.
Unfezant – Smash + Spear. Tailwind, Sky Attack, Sky Attack and Powder/Toxic/Detect/Fly. Don´t be surprised if you flinch or miss. 2x Smash against the Tailwinder.
Ursaring – DANGER! Obligatory normal type that can take a hit an dishes out pain as well. Actually the only set to look out for is set 4 because of QC Cross Chop. Maybe Spear this one from the get go or lose Cloyster if QC activates turn 2.
Vanilluxe – Smash + Rock Blast. If anything goes wrong, Cune sets up on each set. Watch out for set 3 Sheer Cold, always hide behind a Sub.
Vaporeon – WORST STALLWAR OF ALL! Yeah, you will face Vaporeon way too many times. Don´t try to be the hero with Cloy and always go to Cune and PP stall. You will have to go all the way to Struggle KO with 4 attack set 4. If the other sets have no more direct damaging moves, you can set up +6 Cloy. Facing Vappy at every point in a battle prolongs it horribly. Patience is key.
Venusaur – Smash + Spear. Not sure if set 4 starts with Sludge Bomb, more like Seed. You should be able to set up. Watch out for Overgrow, mostly set 3 (this can also Sludge Bomb). Use Aerial Ace instead of Quake or Outrage. It´s a safe 2HKO but doesn´t activate Overgrow.
Vespiquen – Smash + Spear.
Victreebel – DANGER! Maybe I should´ve wrote this for Venu as well. ¾ Vicy sets speed tie with Cloy. It´s better to Spear it, you don´t like Sludge Bombs flying around.
Vileplume – Similar to Vicy, Stun Spore, Teeter Dance, DT, Sludge Bomb, a lot of annoying stuff.
Virizion – Smash + Spear, this one has got no priority attacks.
Volcarona – DANGER! It´s Volca, after all. It can burn you with a Fire move or confuse you with Hurricane. Rock Blast doesn´t always hit. Quake doesn´t always 2HKO sets 3 and 4 (46-54%) so watch out.
Wailord – Smash and see what set it is. Yes it´s a Water type and Cune handles all sets (well, with difficulties if they get too many Curses), but there´s still the little risk of switching into a Fissure (set 4). This one used Hyper Beam most of the time though, so Smash twice and Rock Blast KOs.
Walrein – Smash + Rock Blast. Cune stalls and beats all sets though. Try to burn the Ice Ball set 2, just in case.
Weavile – Smash + Rock Blast/Spear. They will almost always Fake Out turn 1. Two sets are Sashed, Spear has a good chance to KO if you get average damage rolls or a CH. Watch out for Taunt.
Weezing – DANGER! I don´t like set 3 which knows Thunder and Sludge Bomb, so if they hit and status, Cloy falls. I use Chomp against set 3. Set 1 knows Haze and will use it against your Cune. Cune should be able to handle set 2, set 3 is rather difficult due to Thunder, but set 4 is set up bait (if WoW misses even Cloy sets up).
Whiscash – Smash + Spear. Muddy Water lowers accuracy sometimes, I´ve lost Cloy against set 4 once. Cune sets up, but stay behind a Sub, because it knows Fissure.
Yanmega – Smash + Spear. You could lose badly if they used Detect turn 2 with Speed Boost, but they never did that against me. Fortunately they tend to go for Bug Buzz/Giga Drain and not Air Slash.
Zapdos – DANGER! It´s Zapdos, after all. I either Smash + Spear or recently go to Chomp and Outrage. They can´t do much to Chomp, but set 1 once got a CH Air Cutter which wasn´t very cool. Never forget set 2 the streak killer Powder/DT. Cune should stall that despite Charge Beam (it´s only 10 PP, 5 against Cune).
Zebstrika – Chomp. They can´t really touch you, but two hold a Sash and one a Baloon, so act accordingly.
Zoroark – DANGER! This can mess you up depending what illusion it does, mostly if you switch. Chomp beats it 1on1.

Haven't done the subway in a while but god that list looks amazing. I may try the team out myself if I get some spare time (With team modifications if I don't wanna just use the same 3 pokes each time)

Edit: Out of curiosity how long did it take to make the whole list?

[atsync]

@Peterko, Hmmm, that's actually a lot of investment to take out of attack to kill Magnezone, probably not worth it, I don't know...

EDIT: It's not even possible to 2HKO sets 234 with a neutral nature in sp. att haha

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to suggest that taking a point out of speed for 1 point in sp att is a good idea, it's just what I did. At the time, I... wasn't a very good player back then (well I was worse than I am now anyway lol). Basically I was only thinking about the minimum speed required to outspeed the fastest thing that Cloyster can outrun at 2+: Scarf Terrakion. I didn't really think about speed BEFORE the smash. I had never used Cloyster before so I had no idea whether not speed-tying the stuff at 122 was a bad thing or not. However, I agree that taking 1 point away for 1 point in sp att is silly given it makes essentially no difference to Surfs damage output. May as well just max it out!

EDIT2: This doesn't have much to do with anything, but yay I managed to RNG this in Emerald: Registeel, Careful, 30/31/30/24/29/13. Not exactly flawless but good enough! Not sure whether I'll actually use it for subway though.

[Peterko]

Originally Posted by Fat Dark Arceus

Edit: Out of curiosity how long did it take to make the whole list?

Three parts, three days, each around 2-3 hours.

Because there´s no people posting about their streaks, here´s mine:

Cloyster-Garchomp-Suicune v2

---

--------------------------------------------
Tuesday, April 17th, 2012
#15-21 = 6-0-1-0 (1-3-3-3-3-3-3)
#22-28 = 5-2-0-0
#29-35 = 6-1-0-0
#36-42 = 4-3-0-0
#43-49 = 3-4-0-0 (2-2-2-2-3-3-3)
#50-56 = 3-4-0-0 (3-2-2-3-2-2-3)
#57-63 = 5-2-0-0 (2-2-3-3-3-3-3)
#64-70 = 5-2-0-0 (3-2-3-3-3-3-2)
#71-77 = 5-2-0-0 (3-2-3-2-3-3-3)
#78-84 = 6-1-0-0 (3-3-3-3-3-3-2)
#85-91 = 6-1-0-0 (3-3-2-3-3-3-3)
#92-98 = 7-0-0-0 (3-3-3-3-3-3-3)
#99-105 = 4-3-0-0 (3-3-2-3-3-2-2)
#106-112 = 4-3-0-0 (3-2-3-2-2-3-3)
#113-119 = 5-2-0-0 (2-2-3-3-3-3-3)
#120-126 = 4-2-1-0 (3-2-3-1-3-2-3) worst set so far, bad decisions and too many stallwars
#127-133 = 4-2-1-0 (3-3-3-3-2-2-1)
#134-140 = 6-1-0-0 (3-3-3-2-3-3-3)
#141-147 = 7-0-0-0 (3-3-3-3-3-3-3)
#148-154 = 4-2-1-0 (3-3-3-3-1-2-2)
#155-161 = 5-2-0-0 (3-3-2-2-3-3-3)
#162-168 = 4-3-0-0 (3-2-2-2-3-3-3) Ludicolo 3 is soo annoying
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
154 battles:
3-0 x 108 = 70.1%
2-0 x 42 = 27.3%
1-0 x 4 = 2.6%
0-0 x 0 = 0%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Battles/notes:
- #72 misplayed a burned Hariyama3 Thick Fat situation and almost lost to SunnyBeam Vicy3 which survived a Scald after Quake did >90%, but Scald burned and the burn KOed (Chomp was KOed by CC from Hariyama plus SolarBeam, Cloy was at 1HP when Hariyama came out)
- #119 Tyranitar4 decided to dick around with some CHs and Dragon Tailing to reset the sleep counter on Cune (this is an awful mechanics) which couldn´t set up, only 1CM naked on Struggle, second Poké Jolt Quaked away, third Honch Speared
- #121 set up only 3 CMs against Meta 4 (misplayed – didn´t PP waste MM only QUake) which beat Cloy before that and second Poké Cham4 survived the Scald after LO dmg and broke Sub – Cune was at 136 HP, dmg calc. said HJK = 129-153, but Cham used Detect -> lefties to 148, survived HJK and LO dmg KOed, last Poké Chande got Scalded
- #123 Conk4 Superpower-Spear, switch to Chomp-Mach, finished off with Quake = mistake, should have set up Cune instead like I always do. Second Poké Leafeon QC CH Leaf Blade KO, Cloy Spear KOed Leafeon but last Poké was Gengar4 ... ... ...

Gengar 4 Lum Berry 135 76 80 182 95 178 Sludge Bomb Thunderbolt Shadow Ball Destiny Bond

Bolt vs +1 = 66-78

Cune at 113 HP minus 66-78 + Lefties = 47-59 HP

Bolt vs +2 = 50-60 dmg

If Bolt does <76 dmg per hit, Cune can PP stall it

Bolt 2, 39/205, Rest
Bolt 3, 135/205, fast asleep, 147/205
Bolt 4, 77/205, fast asleep, 89/205
Bolt 5, 15/205, woke up, Rest
Bolt 6, 139/205, fast asleep, 151/205
Bolt 7, 83/205, fast asleep, 95/205

Sludge Bomb does 46-55
Shadow Ball does 42-49

Destiny Bond, woke up, Rest
Sludge Bomb, 153/205, fast asleep, 165/205
Destiny Bond, fast asleep
Sludge Bomb, woke up, Scald
Sludge Bomb, poisoned, Sub, 25/205
Shadow Ball, Rest
Destiny Bond, fast asleep
Destiny Bond, fast asleep
Sludge Bomb, Sub broke, CM
Destiny Bond, Sub
Sludge Bomb, Scald KO

Yes I know that I win a 0-0 tie lol but I gave him a chance. I should have lost that one :/

- #133 vs Scientist Charis – Magnezone, Vanilluxe, Tangrowth: Surf-Flash Cannon-Sash, Surf-Flash Cannon KO, Outrage KO, foe Vanilla, Outrage-Sitrus-Ice Beam, my Cune, Sub-Beam, CM-Taunt, Scald-Beam, Scald KO, foe Tang, Scald-Whip1-Sub broke-Taunt wore off, Sub-Whip2-Sub broke, Sub-Whip3-Sub broke, Sub-Whip4-Sub broke, Sub-Whip5-Sub broke, 49/205, Rest-Quake, asleep-AA, asleep-BB, woke up-Sub-BB, Scald-burn-Quake, Scald KO
- #138 and #139 both lead with Tenta4

154 battles (#15-168):
3-0 x 108 = 70.1%
2-0 x 42 = 27.3%
1-0 x 4 = 2.6%
0-0 x 0 = 0%

I´m pretty happy with Naughty Surf so far (most noticable posititve was Regirock for me which I faced around 3 times today), although I ran into some Passho Berries because of being too eager to use Surf. Was a goner pretty much in the battle against Victreebel 3, also can´t believe Cune pulled a 1on1 win against Gengar4. Both situations should not have happened (misplay). Also lol at myself because I wouldn´t follow my own guide in some cases, which quickly turned into tough situations. I only got out of them with luck/no bad luck.

The 70%+ 3-0 win rate (pretty much 5/7 battles) is impressive though. Of course, not all of them are 4 turn Cloyster sweeps, quite many are long battles with Suicune - the slow but solid sweeper. Maybe I should play less battles, because having to face back to back Vaporeon, Slowbro, Slowking, Tenta4 and all the other stuff I have to hard-stall is awful.

EDIT: in the list, what the following means
#127-133 = 4-2-1-0 (3-3-3-3-2-2-1)
is that I had 4 x 3-0, 2 x 2-0, 1 x 1-0 and 0 x 0-0 score in the specific set of 7, hence 4-2-1-0. The numbers that follow are for each battle in that set of 7. 3 means 3-0, 2 means 2-0 and 1 means 1-0.

EDIT: oh yeah, version 2 means Naughty Surf Cloyster instead of Adamant Razor Shell, also 118sD/212 Scarf speed Garchomp instead of 106sD/231 Scarf speed.

[NoCheese]

Originally Posted by Fat atsync

This doesn't have much to do with anything, but yay I managed to RNG this in Emerald: Registeel, Careful, 30/31/30/24/29/13. Not exactly flawless but good enough! Not sure whether I'll actually use it for subway though.

I lack the patience for going for spreads with big delays in Emerald, since I'm pretty bad at timing my button presses. Still, makes me appreciate 5th Gen RNG that much more!

Like you, I actually RNGed a Registeel pretty recently too, trading a little bit in the other stats for more speed.

Careful, 28/29/26/11/29/27.

Have no clue how I want to use it yet, particularly with his options for Gen 3 exclusive moves, but seems like he should be really good in the Subway with proper teammates. Part of the difficulty is that in coming up with new team ideas, I find it really hard to pass on Suicune, which narrows my other choices a little.

The other thing I keep wanting to try is Spiritomb, since he has reasonable defense, can set up with calm mind, and like Suicune has pressure to help him stall all the more efficiently. The low base hp and speed hurt though, even with no weaknesses.

[atsync]

Originally Posted by Fat NoCheese

I lack the patience for going for spreads with big delays in Emerald, since I'm pretty bad at timing my button presses. Still, makes me appreciate 5th Gen RNG that much more!

Like you, I actually RNGed a Registeel pretty recently too, trading a little bit in the other stats for more speed.

Careful, 28/29/26/11/29/27.

Have no clue how I want to use it yet, particularly with his options for Gen 3 exclusive moves, but seems like he should be really good in the Subway with proper teammates. Part of the difficulty is that in coming up with new team ideas, I find it really hard to pass on Suicune, which narrows my other choices a little.

The other thing I keep wanting to try is Spiritomb, since he has reasonable defense, can set up with calm mind, and like Suicune has pressure to help him stall all the more efficiently. The low base hp and speed hurt though, even with no weaknesses.

My Registeel spread was at a frame of 40842 which is approximately 11 and a half minutes. I chose that spread because it had high attack and defences, and speed is being lowered by Curse anyway, plus it was a short waiting time, but even that tested my patience because I hate it when you miss your spread by one delay. Thinking now, maybe a faster spread WOULD have been better but it's too late now. I actually like your spread better!

I also got a Regirock with the same spread, and a calm Regice with 29/15/30/26/31/5, though I don't expect to find much use for them. I'm currently aiming for this Latias spread: Timid with 29/1/28/15/28/31. That would be used to crippling only obviously. On my second attempt (after the first attempt calibration), I missed my spread by one bloody frame!

So yeah, I'm just glad you don't have to worry about hitting delays in 5th gen (except for Extralink abuse), they are so fustrating. I'm so glad that I didn't aim for spreads occurring after several hours since it would had driven me insane! I was planning to get Kyogre, Groudon and Rayquaza also but now I don't think I can be bothered...

As for Spiritomb, he has his advantages over Suicune, mainly the fact that nothing is immune to Dark Pulse. However, it isn't even that bulky and it lacks good resistances (3 immunities is good though). I'm sure lots of things will stop it when set up anyway.

[ashez]

@Atsync - You forgot about Justified users being immune to Dark Pulse ;)

[LockDown]

They're not. They still take damage from the move, but get an attack boost if they survive.

[Zacchaeus]

Originally Posted by Fat LockDown

They're not. They still take damage from the move, but get an attack boost if they survive.

Right. Which for most intents and purposes, Pokés like Justified Cobalian benefit more so from Dark-type attacks than any other result. Also noting for public reference: You can use a monoattacking set, (only 1 attack from which no enemy Poké is immune,) with the following types: Dark, Dragon, Ice, Bug, Flying, Rock, Steel

I can't tell what's wrong with my teambuilding process. Some of my teams seem literally perfectly built as far as I'm concerned but they end up falling short for the strangest reason or problems. Obviously hax beats every team but sometimes it's hard to ignore the losses from hax when they occur so often. Do I not use Substitute enough? Do I hate slow battles and setup too much? Here's my last team: SD Roost Scizor, bulky DD Gyarados, Sub SD Garchomp. the typing fits beautifully and the only problem I could tell during teambuilding was that I had no special attackers. But Gyarados was shit and didn't pull any weight so I swapped it out for Thick Fat SubPunch Hariyama which didn't do well either. So he got replaced with a DD Salamence and my team still didn't work. All routes point back to Drag-Mag and since my only really successful (not horribly slow or boring) team is Dragonite Heatran Latios, I might try to spin it up like I did originally with replacing Magnezone. Otherwise I'm hopeless

[yuki2012]

No, i am not in the list

[Chinese Dood]

4th Gen RNGing isn't so bad though (I have not done any prior to 4th). I just RNG'ed a flawless Modest Roamer Latios today (modest since I already have a timid, and yeah, roamer, not the easy-to-rng event one)... mainly just to make sure I still remember how to do RNGing for 4th gen (since I might need/want something from 4th Gen for VGC Nats). But yeah, 5th Gen is just so much easier.

I haven't been playing much subway the past while since I was prepping for VGC Regionals (which I got 4th in, losing to none other than our double subway boss R Inanimate). I'm gonna get back to it ... starting today! :P So far... at 42 streak in single with some random team.

EDIT: O yeah, on the note on Spiritomb... I've tried it. It's fairly disappointing. It just isn't bulky enough and it does not hit hard enough. I've tried:
1) CM/Sub/Shadow Ball or Dark Pulse / HP Fighting
2) CM/Sub/Dark Pulse/Rest (@Chesto and @Lum), and
3) CM/Sub/Dark Pulse/Pain Split

... Two facts still remain true: 1) not bulky enough, 2) not hard hitting enough. VS a defensive fighting type that can take a hit ... e.g. No Guard Machamp. Stone Edge breaks sub as your Dark Pulse does something like 50% damage. Stone Edge crit KO. That happened to me like 3 times I think. Then a bunch of other hard hitters also beat Spiritomb (I think one of them was Scrappy Kangaskhan, fighting move on Spiritomb for super effective).

Oh, and that was in 4th Gen, before Justified was even introduced. I can only imagine that Spiritomb will have an even harder time. I think you might have a better chance with Dusknoir (yes, much lower SpA, but at least bulkier)... though I doubt that's too good either. Reuniclus might be interesting though (Magic Guard @ Lefties - CM/Sub/Psychic or Psyshock/HP Bug probably). Probably still no good facing a team of dark types though.

[bluemon]

im so glad i could help you, peterko :D

[Superpowerdude]

well i finally beat the subway boss on the super single train! i know all yuo guys viewing the thread have probally done this millions of times but it is a big aheivement for me i used a Shell smash Cloyster which i give all the credit to peterko to, bulk up Scrafty and specs latias i lost in the 56th battle however i beleieve my team has the potential to reach 100 wins

edit i am changing Latais set to Physically defensive calm mind and see how that goes!

[atsync]

Originally Posted by Fat Chinese Dood

4th Gen RNGing isn't so bad though (I have not done any prior to 4th). I just RNG'ed a flawless Modest Roamer Latios today (modest since I already have a timid, and yeah, roamer, not the easy-to-rng event one)... mainly just to make sure I still remember how to do RNGing for 4th gen (since I might need/want something from 4th Gen for VGC Nats). But yeah, 5th Gen is just so much easier.

Yep I prefer 4th gen over 3rd gen. The annoying thing about 3rd gen is that the seed is always the same. This makes the RNG abuse easier I guess, but it also limits what spreads you can hit, hence why the spreads I got for the regis aren't completely flawless. Getting completely flawless spreads for wild/legendary pokemon is pretty much impossible because they occur at such high frames that you would quite literally have to leave your game turned on and running non-stop for several weeks at least until you got to them! At least in 4th and 5th gen you can manipulate your seed to get flawless spreads in a reasonable time frame.

3rd gen is still good for breeding though, and it has some useful move tutors (mainly Double-Edge).

Still working on getting my Latias (I'm sooo close) and then I'll get to EV training that Salamence and actually play some subway! Latios will probably still be better though despite Salamence's better defensive typing (for my team anyway).

[Chinese Dood]

Yeah, I know about 3rd Gen RNGing's annoying-ness, which was why I was just wondering why you were RNGing your Latias in 3rd Gen instead of 4th... unless you only have SS and no HG?

So, since I was RNGing in 4th Gen today, I decided to visit Battle Facilities in SS. Boy I sucked. I tried Double Open Level Factory... 4 times. First two times I couldn't even beat battle #1 lol. Then 3rd time I got good first round picks and finished one set of 7 and then lost on battle #8. 4th time, got to like battle #4... decided to give up.

Then I played double level 50 factory. It turned out better. I got a fake out glameow which got me some good buffer space, and then I got a beautifly (hey final evolution pokemon is good!), but man, Chinchou's probably one of the best in the first set of 7, since it had really good coverage and "high power" moves like shockwave / Icy Wind / Bubblebeam (seems like many pokemon only had base 40 moves), and it's bulky and not super slow too. Anyway, I beat the first set of 7 and then lost again, no good picks for battle #8.

Then I went to Battle Hall. I was playing on my SS which had barely any "good" pokemon. I didn't have very many items either... probably they all were transferred to my HG. Anyway, the few "good" pokemon I had in my boxes were:
1) Sub-Petaya Empoleon (Surf/IceBeam/Sub/Agility)
2) good coverage Electivire (IPunch/TPunch/EQ/Low Kick)
3) classic Sash Gengar with energy ball (TBolt/Energy Ball/Shadow Ball/Destiny Bond),
4) Hazards Nidoqueen (EQ/Ice Beam/T Spikes/Stealth Rock)
5) Uh... some sort of Doubles Metagross (EQ/Bullet Punch/Explosion/Protect)
6) CM Slowbro (Surf / Psychic / Slack Off / Calm Mind)
7) Modest Starmie (Surf / TBolt / Ice Beam / Psychic)

... The only things out of those that were somewhat viable for Battle Hall I thought were Starmie, Gengar (if I get rid of DBond for something else), Electivire. This was just a "once in a long while" revisit to the Hall anyway, so I wasn't going to change any moveset*, so it was either Starmie or Electivire. I ended up choosing Electivire. I look to see what items I still have in SS. No Expert Belt or Life Orb, but I found a Choice Band, and it's probably best for hall anyway, so I slapped that on and tried to beat all the ground types first... It came to battle #11 I think... Low Kick missed Pilowine. Piloswine used Dig. Dig KOs Electivire. So that was that. I guess Piloswine had Bright powder? Obviously I didn't check the move list. If I knew its ground attack was going to be dig, I could have just EQ safely to 2HKO. O well.

*More importantly, TMs weren't reuseable in Gen IV.

Then I decided single tower was probably my "safest" way to actually get some sort of battle points. So out of those few pokemon listed above, I made this team: Gengar @Sash, Metagross @ Muscle Band (I don't have any better item), Slowbro @ Leftovers

I didn't go with Starmie, since it's nearly same coverage as Gengar, and it's same typing as slowbro. Slowbro for set up sweeper is safer, imo. It's no Suicune, but it's still pretty awesome if I may say so, setting up on things like Dusknoir's Shadow Punch is no joke! :P

Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that my streak was actually already at #50 (meaning I stopped at #49 last time I played Tower in SS some unknown amount of time ago). The team did pretty well. Plenty of battles went with Gengar 2HKOing something, Destiny Bond the second pokemon, and Metagross explode on the 3rd. I finished battle #63 and decided to call it a day.

Good times, Soul Silver...

[atsync]

Originally Posted by Fat Chinese Dood

Yeah, I know about 3rd Gen RNGing's annoying-ness, which was why I was just wondering why you were RNGing your Latias in 3rd Gen instead of 4th... unless you only have SS and no HG?

Nope, no HG for me. I wouldn't bother with Emerald for Latias if I did. It's ok, I don't mind, and I'm certainly not getting HG just to get one pokemon that I'm not even sure I'll use anyway.

Oh and another thing that's annoying about 3rd gen is that you can't track roamers until you see them at least once. I have been searching for Latias for the last 3 hours :/

Oh you bought back some memories of factory for me :) I remember how awesome Beautifly was for me, Chinchou was solid too. I also thought Delcatty, Onix, Shedinja (this is amazing since you know what pokemon your opponents are using and hence how useful it will be), Plusle and Minun were great too. I got to know them VERY well because I kept having to restart over and over and over...

[Tomas Fer]

Long time without working in my streak, but I have 147 wins in the Battle Subway Super Single and continues.

I was using Trick+SubChomp, I don't know if I will change for the next battles, but this one is working.

Annoying (Togekiss)@Choice Scarf
Modest, Serene Grace
SpAtk,Speed,4 SpDef
Air Slash
Aura Sphere
Heat Wave
Trick

Capitanazo (Latios)@Choice Specs
Timid
SpAtk,Speed,4 HP
Draco Meteor
Surf
HP Fire
Trick

Garchomon (Garchomp)@Leftovers
Jolly
HP,Spd,4 Atk
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Sword Dance
Substitute

I abuse that some sets doesn't have more than 1 Pokemon to deal with Garchomp, trick and force the switch while I hide and boost Garchomp with Sub and SD. Against Ice trainers I just spam flinch or just launch Heat Wave/Aura Sphere in case is some fragile Ice-type.

Proof: http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/.../Img_00035.jpg

[RiggyRob]

Would anyone be willing to test a team out for me? It's an absolute BITCH to get the right Pokemon I want on the same team atm, and I'm interested in hearing how well they could possibly do:

Hitmontop w/ Focus Sash
Adamant, 252Hp 252Atk 4Speed
Technician
Fake Out/Mach Punch/Bullet Punch/Aerial Ace

Bisharp w/ Chople Berry/Air Balloon/Life Orb/Dark Gem/Lum Berry/whatever you like
Adamant, 252Hp 252Atk 4Speed
Defiant
Taunt/Sucker Punch/Iron Head/filler (most likely Night Slash/Brick Break)

+ Classic Subway Suicune

...

---

Priority abuse is the name of the game here, using the Doubles Technitop + Bisharp combo - after all, if you KO them first, they can't KO you back. It eliminates the threat of the 'speed crew' (which I've taken to mean most Pokemon over 100 base speed); while others have used Scizor to counter them, I thought 'why not go one better?' and use two Pokemon with priority that has either better coverage or more power. Technitop w/ Fake Out and Mach Punch should deal two reasonable blows to any non-Ghost Pokemon and with Focus Sash it should survive almost any hit. Bisharp resists both of Hitmontop's weaknesses, taking the Psychic and Flying hits aimed at him, and importantly adds a Dragon resist which I've never had on a team before. I've chosen him over Scizor specifically for the Dark STAB, Psychic immunity and Flying resist, although Scizor may be a better overall fit for the team. Finally, the classic Subway Suicune is there to do it's job like everyone knows it can.

On Technitop, Aerial Ace is there to take out opposing Fighting types and acts as the counter to my personal nemesis, Volcarona - it also deals with Snow Cloak/Sand Veil/Double Team spam. Taunt and Sucker Punch on Bisharp screw up Trick Room/set up Pokemon, but the beauty of priority abuse is that no matter what, you will always hit them before they hit you.

I'm not sure on the order of the Pokemon, perhaps having Bisharp lead would be better for Intimidate users in particular, but I'm reasonably sure this team would work as it is, with Fake Out providing a free hit on almost every lead.

Potential problems:
Inner Focus leads - the majority of these are Fighting (Aerial Ace + priority move), Psychic (switch to Bisharp) or Crobat (Bullet Punch + Bullet Punch/switch to Bisharp). Dragonite would also merit a switch to Bisharp, but you could be gutsy and play for Bullet Punch + Bullet Punch with Hitmontop.

Status - Poison, I have found, is not really a threat in the Subway - battles tend to be quite short and rarely do the AI play well enough to Toxic-stall successfully, not to mention Bisharp is immune anyway. Paralysis is, in theory, not a problem since the team uses priority, but the chance of being fully paralyzed cannot be ignored. Burn would screw up both Hitmontop and Bisharp, which makes Volcarona just that little more infuriating to deal with. Sleep is probably the most threatening, which could necessitate a Lum Berry on Bisharp, but Taunt would also take care of status moves. In most cases, Suicune takes on statusers and comes out on top.

Bulkiness - Hitmontop isn't the strongest, so it could come short of KO'ing a Pokemon more than a few times, but that's what Focus Sash is there for - Sandstorm and Hail both break the Sash but Hitmontop comfortably beats both Abomasnow and Tyranitar; Hippowdon could pose a problem though. Dragons with Fire/Ground/Fighting attacks could destroy this team, depending on how it's played, but there is always an opportunity to play well and win; for example, Salamence could be overcome by a combination of Fake Out + Bullet Punch + Bullet Punch, or +1 Sucker Punch w/ Dark Gem/Life Orb thanks to Defiant.

If anyone ever feels like testing out this team, let me know - I'm trying to evolve a Tyrogue but as you could expect the Attack and Defence are nowhere near equal (I could EV it in Defence to balance the stats, but I only have one Qualot berry and I can't connect to the Dream World at this moment in time). Also, Sucker Punch is an egg move on Bisharp, which is annoying but I'd be able to deal with it in time. I'm surprised there hasn't been a streak with either of these Pokemon in Super Singles, is Doubles really all Technitop + Bisharp are good for?

[Manveru123]

Actually atsync used Bisharp in his highest Singles streak.

[Chinese Dood]

I've used both of those before, but not in the same team (EDIT: Oh, and unfortunately not in Singles). From my experience, Bisharp would like the Sash more than Hitmontop does for a couple reasons:
1) Bisharp is immune to sand while Hitmontop isn't, so sand does not make Bisharp's sash useless.
2) Bisharp faints too easily from fighting moves even with Chople, and then ground moves and fire moves also kill it rather easily. Hitmontop, from my experience, is better at taking hits.

O yeah, Bisharp comfortably beats Abomasnow and Tyranitar with Iron Head too.

Top is good in Doubles because of Fake out and all those priority moves (and Intimidate and Tech both work).

I thought about using Top as a set up sweeper before (Something like Bulk Up / Sub / Mach Punch / Sucker Punch or Bullet Punch or something else), but yeah, even with adamant and max attack, it's still no scizor with its tech bullet punch (which even then doesn't automatically beat everything). I dunno. might be worth giving a try in singles.

[Odin]

Battle Subway Super Singles record: 99

Battle Video: 14-81672-23650

Starmie @Life Orb
Nature: Timid
Ability: Natural Cure
EV: 252 SpA/ 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
IV: 31/ 31/ 31/ 31/ 31/ 31
Lv50: 135/ 85/ 105/ 152/ 106/ 183
Move set:
-Grass Knot
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Surf

Garchomp @Dragon Gem
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sand Veil
EV: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
IV: 31/ 31/ 31/ 31/ 31/ 31
Lv50: 184/ 182/ 115/ 82/ 105/ 169
Move set:
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Fire Fang
-Swords Dance

Ferrothorn @Leaftovers
Nature: Relaxed
Ability: Iron Barbs
EV: 252 HP/ 88 Def/ 168 SpD
IV: 31/ 31/ 31/ 23/ 31/ 0
Lv50: 181/ 114/ 178/ 70/ 157/ 22
Move set:
-Gyro Ball
-Protect
-Curse
-Leech Seed

What I did with Starmie as lead was trying to sweep using it's move set and if I suspected a electric/Ghost attack I would switch to Garchomp/Ferrothorn.

Ferrothorn pretty much stopped high defensive pokes along some evasion teams, making leech seed the star ability, curse was also handy when I fought Confagrigus as it used to wall me when I didn´t had it, and again leech seed to finish it off when it uses Destiny Bond

Garchomp was usually the final pokemon to go out and finish the rest of the opponents team, with dragon gem and outrage dealing alot of neutral damage

How I lost:

I don´t use calculators and the list of moves the opponent pokemons have so I thought Starmie would resist an Air Slash from Togekiss, following by the fact that I forgot that Togekiss usually carries Heat Wave which was reminded when it kill my Ferrothorn, I manage to finish off Togekiss with Garchomp but a faster Mienshao Hi Jump Kicked me out of my streak

Sorry for the possibly bad english

[atsync]

Ok so I finally got my Emerald Latias. Haven't done anything with it yet. I'm just glad I have a usable one now.

So I am back to the subway. I'm currently playing doubles with Sawk/Gengar/Metagross/filler, filler being a variety of dragon pokemon. I'm currently using a special attacking Salamence. So far it has been solid. The power drop from Latios is definitely noticable but so far it hasn't mattered too much. I'm currently running Dragon Fang which has been fine but I'd rather have Life Orb. I'm considering giving Salamence Life Orb and giving Metagross Steel Gem instead. I've used Steel Gem Metagross before and it has worked well enough, plus 2 of Metagross's 3 attacking moves are Steel type. The fact that it's a one use item is a shame but Metagross usually only needs to attack once to finish the match (a lot of the time it doesn't even make on appearance). Steel Plate/Metal Coat could also work I suppose...

The speed drop from Latios to Salamence hasn't been that noticable yet, other than against a Durant that flinched Salamence with Iron Head before I could hit it with Flamethrower (I still won).

On the other hand, Intimidate is awesome and I've found that Salamence has more switch-in opportunities that Latios thanks to the lower number of weaknesses. Of course, Flamethrower is an important advantage over Latios, and even Hydro Pump has helped (obviously I only use it if I absolutely have to; I've used Rotom-W enough to know that the accuracy will kill you if you get too bold with it). Yes I'm aware that Latios learns Surf but I can't use it for this team as my teammates can't tolerate it.

I haven't tried Hydreigon on this team yet (I've tried it on other teams but I didn't find its advantages useful on those teams). The extra power would be nice but I like Hydro Pump over Dark Pulse (Dark Pulse is a bit redundant because of Gengar). Actually, I was thinking that Latias could work too lol. Same sp. att. as Salamence and a similarly luxurious movepool, but no Flamethrower or Hydro Pump and the same 'lots of annoying weaknesses' issue as Latios. I don't have an offensive Latias though. There's also Dragonite, but 95 sp. att. isn't that great.

So I'll just stick with Salamence for now. Hydreigon is my next choice if that doesn't work though (maybe with Earth Power instead of Dark Pulse).

EDIT: I took a brief break to have a tilt at the Emerald Battle Factory (lv.50). I got a streak of 25 wins (and 25 swaps). I lost to complete hax and shitty matchups. I lead with mono-attacking Jolteon and I'm forced out by Golem. I send in my mono-attacking (Psychic Starmie) who 2HKOs Golem. The opponent sends in Umbreon. I switch to Machamp. It confuses me with Confuse Ray and I get a 4 turn confusion that always results in me hitting myself. In the meantime it sets up 1 Double Team, hits me for little damage, and baton passes to Charizard, who kills me with Fire Blast. I send in Jolteon, who can OHKO it, but Charizard SURVIVES with its Focus Band and kills me with Fire Blast. Starmie finishes it off but then I'm left to somehow PP stall an Umbreon with Brightpowder, Double Team, Faint Attack AND Confuse Ray. I couldn't even try Thunder Wave because of Synchronize! Oh well, back to Subway for me...

[Superpowerdude]

lol i realised my scrafty had zero attack evs for my previous streak. i will probally try the same team again consisting of latias, scrafty and cloyster and see how i go after beating the subway boss my goal is to get to 100 wins
Edit: i am changin latias to latios also this time around i would pick latias but Latios is a better scarfer sporting higher speical attack i will still always love latias more and maybe later create a battle subway team in her most Honourable set Pyshically defensive calm mind anyway good luck to anyone in the battle subway as it is time to continue my streak!

[atsync]

Shit :(

I just lost a streak at 99 wins, which means I matched my previous personal best, with Sawk/Gengar/Metagross/Salamence. The worst thing was that it was completely avoidable.

I had Salamence and Gengar, both injured, against a Jolteon that was alive by the skin of its teeth. To win, I should Dragon Pulse and Shadow Ball, since Jolteon could only kill one of us with Thunder (the survivor would finish Jolteon off). But no, I was in autopilot mode and hit Protect on Gengar by accident. Jolteon Thunders Salamence to death while Gengar Protects, and then Gengar dies the next turn. Of course, Jolteon didn't miss Thunder once out of the 5 times it used it, and the way it targetted Salamence was certainly convenient, but seriously I'm so dumb (and I swear that I was making the right plays up until that point).

This isn't an actual write-up, I won't do one of those until I either beat my personal best or get bored with this team. I did give Salamence Life Orb in the end, and Metagross Iron Plate, and it's been worthwhile. Probably the biggest threat right now is Psychics, what with all of those Fighting resistant/immune pokemon that they carry, which has me thinking that Dark Pulse Hydreigon might be a good choice after all. On the other hand, Hydro Pump saved me against Choice Scarf Entei, who is the one pokemon that I hope to never meet again with this team. Hmmm...

[lolnub]

Battle Subway Super Double Battle Record: 177


Pichu @ Focus Sash
Ability: Static
Naive Nature
IVs: 0/31/0/31/0/31
EVs: 255 Atk / 255 Spe
Helping Hand
Protect
Fake Out
Light Screen


Entei @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Timid Nature
IVs: 31/31/31/30/30/31
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Eruption
Flamethrower
HP Ground
Shadow Ball

I got this strategie from Pikiwyn. When I saw his strategy with carvanha I immediately felt in love with it. I wanted something different though, because I don’t like to kopie exact same strategies, so I came up with this. Pichu is really an awesome Pokemon in this kind of team (I never thought I would ever saw something like that). He has a lot of advances over Carvanha. First, it has Static, but that was not the reason I chose it. That was Helping Hand. Helping Hand makes Entei’s Eruptions hit even harder then they already do. The reason I chose Pichu over other low defense Helping Handers was Fake Out. This move makes sure Pichu lives at least 2 turns (first turn Fake out, second turn Protect).
Entei is just the same as that of Pikiwyn, but with Shadow ball over Extrasensory. This is for some Trick Roomers, especially Slowking, who is killed by a combination of Fake Out + Shadow Ball + Helping Hand Shadow Ball. I have not used this, because I came to the conclusion that TR isn’t even that bad, because Pichu still attracts all attacks to him so Entei can just go on with Eruptionspam. Shadow Ball can still be handy in some situations against ghosts/psychics when he is low on health. Latios has already Psychic so I figured Shadow Ball was just a better option.


Latios @ Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
Timid Nature
IVs: 29/2/29/29/31/31
EVs: 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Dragon Pulse
Psychic
Thunderbolt
Protect

Latios is just the standard Pokemon for testing teams, because it is so damn reliable. Everything should be obvious. Psychic and Dragon Pulse for STABs en Thunderbolt to hit waters and flyers. Protect because it is Protect and Expert Belt because Life Orb was already being used. No Draco Meteor, because it had 90 acruacy and I don’t like the SpA drop. Especialy because Latios is most of the time one of the last Pokemons and can’t switch out, so
it’s stuck with a -2 SpA.


Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Adamant Nature
IVs: 31/31/28/31/28/31
EVs: 84 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Spe
Bullet Punch
Bug Bite
Super Power
Protect

I didn’t really know what to use in this spot. I knew I wanted something to kill Terrakion because Pikiwyn said in his post that it was a big threat for his team. I first picked Azumarill, because it could also kill Heatran (another threat for this team). I tried Azumarill, but lost around the twenty's. I then watched at Heatrans movesets and noticed that Scizor could also check Heatran when he has Super Power. This, because 3/4 do not have any speedinvestment. The other one is scarfed so Latios could easily take care of that one (and when it is locked in earth Power or something, even Scizor isn’t afraid of that one). Super Power hits a 252 HP Heatran for at least 93,94% and has 68,75% to KO. This is 100% a KO when Pichu uses Helping Hand obviously so it was good enough for me. I gave Scizor a Life Orb so it could kill Terrakion almost for sure with Bullet Punch (87,5 % to KO). This is also the only Pokemon who wasn’t RNGd. I bred this around 2 years ago and never felt the need to rebreed it, because those 3 points for both defense are not really noticeable.

How I lost:

Log

---

Turn 1:
Pichu Fake out Zapdos
Entei Hidden power Heatran (almost death)
Zapdos Flinched
Heatran overheat Pichu (critical hit, focus Sash)

Turn 2:
Pichu Protect
Entei Hidden Power Heatran (KO)
Zapdos Heat wave (Pichu Protected)
Opp Switch in Landorus

Turn 3:
Switch out Entei for Latios
Pichu Protect (failed)
Landorus Earth Power Pichu (KO)
Zapdos Heat Wave Latios (burn)
Switch in Scizor

Turn 4:
Scizor Protect
Latios Dragon Pulse Zapdos (over half health left)
Landorur Sludge bomb Latios
Zapdos Heat Wave (scizor protected itself)

Turn 5:
Switch out Scizor for Entei
Latios Dragon Pulse Zapdos (to yellow)
Landorus Sludge Bomb Latios (KO)
Zapdos Heat Wave Entei (avoided)
Switch in Scizor

Turn 6:
Scizor Bullet Punch Landorus (critical Hit, focus Sash)
Landorus Earth Power Entei (KO)
Zapdos Heat Wave Scizor (KO)

GG

Battle Video: 33-29998 - 17276

Last one was Entei so would almost lose for sure. It was just an annoying team to face. Espacialy the Zapdos, because Latios could 2HKO every other and then the chance of winning would be bigger. When I saw that the first was not a KO, I should have focused on Landorus so Scizor could finish Landorus off and my Entei could kill Zapdos. It then would be 2 (scizor and Entei) against Entei.

Oh well, I think It is really cool that I came this far with a Pichu. It is even better as my Tailwind team (171), so that's cool. Now gonna look for a different strategie to test.