Breaking The Bar (Peaked 7th)

Pokemazter · May 1st, 2012, 10:10:01 PM

.::As of June 18, 2012::.
(20:03:34) *** Your rank in Dream World OU is 7/6175 [1428 points / 51 battles]!

Introduction

Back when BW OU was still Sandstorm dominated, much like DW OU is today, I never got to use Excadrill. My family planned a trip that lasted for a month and a half, and by the time we got back, Excadrill had been unanimously banned. Before then, I really wasn't into Competitive Pokemon and was more busy with Rain teams. Enter Deoxys-S, and same story here, except it wasn't a trip. I got mono and pneumonia rearly at the same time, and that took me out for a solid month and a bit. Beforehand, I was using Sand teams and never considered the alien virus. Then, it got banned. Now, having become a better-than-average BW OU player, I decided to venture to the Dream World tier. It's new and upcoming, and it doesn't seem too different from BW OU. Having learned that Deoxys-s and Excadrill were not banned in this metagame, I jumped at the chance to use these Pokemon on a team, something I've never done beforehand. This is a team designed to take everything that was considered broken in BW OU and experiment with it. This is a part of the metagame I never saw, and have really wanted to use. Over the course of nearly two months, the team has seen quite a few wins with few losses, but I feel something is missing.

The recent name change, Breaking The Bar is due to a slight "thanks" to one of my friends who helped pull me out of a slump, and challenged me to break 1400 on the OU ladder. Because I can't break 1300 in OU, I tried in DW OU, where I found success. Without his help, I probably never would have reached the peak ranking it currently sits at.

Teambuilding Process

This team originally started around Genesect. It's a very new Pokemon, and I've heard high praise from it. It looks cool and has great stats, so I decided to build my team around one. It was intended to be a Choice Scarf set, but another Pokemon further along in the Team changed my mind on that, as I'm not fond of multiple choice Pokemon.

For Genesect to do its job better and because of how many switches it can, and does, force, I added Deoxys-S to lay down an array of hazards, making switching all the harder for my opponent. Deoxys-S can also stop setup Pokemon dead in their tracks, as Taunt prevents status moves from being used. superpower also gave me a way around Tyranitar without having to U-Turn, as I chose Superpower as Deoxys' attacking move.

Rapid Spin support is also appreciated by Genesect, so I took this opportunity to use Excadrill. Because of that choice, Tyranitar found its way onto my team, as it is truly the Pokemon that makes Excadrill what its known for. even with limited success with this team, I understand why Excadrill was banned. after a Swords Dance, not much really stops it, as it tops 550 speed in a Sandstorm, and sports an 810 attack stat after said Swords Dance. tyranitar really doesn't do much on the team but trap Chandelure and get Sandstorm up.

Because Breloom can be a pain in the ass for Genesect, I invested in Chandelure and Celebi. both do a very good job of beating Breloom, as both of which have their ways of checking the shroom. Chandelure traps and Revenge Kills it, and Celebi is pseudo-immune to Spore and can switch back in to set up in Breloom's face. Both also do good against other threats in the DW OU metagame such as Keldeo and opposing Genesect.

after just shy of 24 hours on Smogon, changes have been seen, watching Chandelure and Celebi both take their leave for two Pokemon more ready to support the team; Gliscor and Suicune. Suicune ends the insane water weakness I had on the previous version of the team, and Gliscor acts well to take on big offensive threats like Terrakion that normally would have torn through my team. In fact, Deoxys-S, Tyranitar, and Genesect also recieved minor changes to their sets. I'm liking this new version.

In-Depth

Pressure
220 HP / 12 Atk / 72 SAtk / 204 Spd
Hasty Nature
Spikes
Psycho Boost
Hidden Power Fire
Superpower

After having recieved alternate ideas for Deoxys-S, I finally settled on the set adviced by Jimbon, as it allowed for Deoxys to maintain its role of Hazard setter, but also allowed it to cause damage before going down, and actually do something productive on the team outside of getting said hazards up. The set has enough speed to outcreep Scarf Genesect by 1 point, and enough to OHKO Tyranitar with Superpower and Genesect with HP Fire. Ice Beam is here to help rid the opposing team of the Dragon's that swarm to DW OU such as Dragonite or Garchomp. Handy for hitting Amoongus and Breloom too.

Synergy:
: Chandelure, Genesect, Excadrill, Gliscor
: Tyranitar, Excadrill, Genesect
: Tyranitar, Excadrill, Genesect

Download
252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
Rock Polish
Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt

Good god talk about beastly. this thing has the strength of the scarf set, but has the freedom to change moves. However, it's really done very little in the battles I've had. Naturally, it's kinda slow, having such a weird Speed stat. However, this is to be generally cured by Jimbon's suggestion of Rock Polish over U-turn, as it will hencefoth patch up the base 99 Speed stat carried by Genosect. Flamethrower, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt gain neutral coverage on everything bar Lanturn, and it's not like one sees it in DW OU every single day. Flamethrower is generally best for the Steel types that migrated upwards from BW OU to try a new tier. It's handy for Exacdrill if my sand or their's isn't up. Ice Beam hits the Dragon types found left, right, and centre throughout the tier, and Ice Beam hits the water types like Manaphy and Keldeo.

Synergy:
: Suicune, Tyranitar

Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SDef / 60 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
Pursuit
Superpower
Fire Blast
Stealth Rock

As mentioned above, this thing really is here to trap Chandelure and get Sandstorm up. However, thanks to a suggestion by Kidogo, it now carries the role of Stealth Rock layer, something vital in aiding my sweeps. Pursuit is the crux of Tyranitar, as it takes care of the aforementioned Chandelure and most other things that decide to switch out of Tyranitar. Superpower is intended to hit Excadrill on the switch, Fire Blast Steel Types. Now carrying stealth Rock, Tyranitar provides me a way of doing extra damage to an opposing Pokemon, and lightens the hazards load on Deoxys-S' shoulders. From personal experiences, Hippowdon isn't much better either at doing anything really, and this thing at least serves some purpose on the team.

Synergy:
: Genesect
: Deoxys-S, Gliscor
: Genesect, Gliscor, Excadrill
: Gliscor, Suicune
: Suicune
: Genesect, Excadrill, Gliscor

Sand Rush
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Rapid Spin
Swords Dance

Dear Gamefreak. This Christmas, I want a Pokemon that once set up in Sandstorm and with a Swords Dance, is nearly unstoppable. Also, make it a Steel type. My team needs a Dragon resist. Thanks. Well, my wish must have been heard. They developed this brute. That wish also sums up what Excadrill does for my team. Sweep though countless (somewhere around 45) Pokemon on the opposing teams with either Rock Slide or Earthquake after having used Swords Dance. Excadrill's also here because of his ability to use Rapid Spin. No spinblocker dares switch in to Excadrill, so it's one of the best out there. I like this Pokemon. A lot.

Synergy:
: Tyranitar, Suicune
: Suicune
: Deoxys-S, Gliscor
: Gliscor, Suicune

Poison Heal
252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature
Swords Dance
Earthquake
Ice Fang
Protect

Suggested by Kidogo, Gliscor is here to give the team a better chance against big offensive Pokemon like opposing Excadrill and Terrakion. I figured this set warranted more value to my team, as it was completely capable of taking hits from Terrakion / Gliscor, and also had the strength of beating them. It can act as a back-up sweeper too. It also acts as a good check to Breloom, as Poisin Heal renders Spore useless, and Ice Fang gives me a way to hit Breloom back, potentially freezing it. Earthquake deals with the aforementioned Terrakion and Excadrill, and basically anything that doesn't resist it. It's good STAB, and after a Swords Dance or two, hits pretty hard. Protect is there to gain me an extra turn of healing from Toxic Orb, or even activate it, and to scout opposing choice sets, especially Genesect, as it may opt for a U-Turn over an Ice Beam.

Synergy:
: Suicune
: Suicune, Tyranitar, Genesect

Water Absorb
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
Surf
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Grass
Calm Mind

Replacing Celebi on the team, Suicune is here to end the threat posed by Rain Teams and Water-Type Pokemon. Water Absord turns stray Water-type attacks into HP. Suggested by Jimbon, "it removes [my] massive Water weakness and gives [me] a solid answer to Rain mons spamming Hydro Pump. It's also nice to have one less team member Chandelure bait.". He also went to tell me its one of the best answers to Manaphy. Having access to pseudo-BoltBeam coverage and Surf, all three backed up by Calm Mind, Suicune works wonders hitting Fire, Rock, Ground, Flying, Water and weakened Grass types, potentially winning me games. Surf is STAB, and directed at those said Fire, Rock, and Ground type Pokemon, while Ice Beam and HP Grass hit the other mentioned types. HP Grass is also very handy for nabbing Quagsire and Gastrodon, Pokemon that would normally switch in on Suicune. Solid suggestion. Johto sure produced some good Pokemon competitively, didn't they?

Synergy:
: Excadrill, Gliscor
: Genesect

Conclusion
In the scheme of things, thanks for the read and rate. This is my first DW OU team, so do exaggerate on big checks to my team and if my team is in anyway decent. I'll attempt to have a threatlist up no later than a week from today. I am looking for maybe a better Tyranitar set (or something to replace it), and I am questioning a few things, which you'll read in the descriptions. I'll probably add move to this RMT as time passes.

Importable
Deoxys-S @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 220 HP / 12 Atk / 72 SAtk / 204 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Psycho Boost
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Superpower
- Spikes

Genesect @ Life Orb
Trait: Download
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rock Polish
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower

Tyranitar (M) @ Shed Shell
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SDef / 60 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

Excadrill (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Protect

Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Calm Mind

And as a note, whoever stole my alt of "Mazz", you're a very crude person.

drakon136 · May 1st, 2012, 11:27:42 PM

Just skimmed over the team before I rate it, but there were two things that stood out to me. First, why Flash Fire and not Shadow Tag on Chandelure? And why does Tyranitar have a -SpA nature on a mixed set?

Pokemazter · May 2nd, 2012, 12:16:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat drakon136

Just skimmed over the team before I rate it, but there were two things that stood out to me. First, why Flash Fire and not Shadow Tag on Chandelure? And why does Tyranitar have a -SpA nature on a mixed set?

Flash Fire is me simply not being aware of making the change to its DW Ability. I'm running a -SpA nature so I can still outspeed all non-invested Scizor and everythign under 170 speed. Fire Blast is there to simply hit things for Super Effective, like Skarmory, Scizor, and Ferrothorn, Pokemon that won't like taking those moves anyways.

Kidogo · May 2nd, 2012, 1:39:45 AM

I battled this earlier today, very nice team. The weakness to rain teams is noticeable but most if not all sand teams have this. I would suggest changing celebi to a bulkier set with leaf storm, thunder wave, recover, hp fire or something, max hp and SpD or whatever, since it is really your only check for rain teams and this gives you much more survivability.

I would suggest putting rocks on ttar since, as you said, he's mostly dead weight and it frees up a spot for deo. This could go over anything really, although I would probably opt for fire blast or crunch. Furthermore, I might make deoxys fully offensive, as it is a hugely effective late-game cleaner with something like superpower, psycho boost, hp fire/fire punch, thunder(bolt)/ice beam with LO or focus sash. Just PP though.

I would probably switch genesect to either focus sash or choice scarf. The former provides a nice assurance for set-up sweepers gone wild and LO isn't that necessary, while CS is hugely helpful and effective.

Your team is very weak to water and ground attacks, with only one resist for both. Furthermore, it is the same pokemon who resists them, meaning celebi will be worn down very fast, especially with the offensive set you have. In fact, if exca's air balloon is broken, an opposing excadrill with x-scissor easily sweeps the entire team even at +0 if deo and gene have taken just about any prior damage. scarf terrakion with x-scissor also sweeps the team easily. To address both of these, I would suggest getting rid of deoxys, genesect, or chandelure for a physical wall like skarmory or gliscor that could help with these weaknesses. Skarmory could also replace spikes you had on deoxys. I pesonally would suggest replacing chandy, as it is basically useless for more than one KO in this pursuit Ttar-infested metagame, but just PP again.

Also, a typo here. The second ice beam should be tbolt i think.

Quote:

Ice Beam hits the Dragon types found left, right, and centre throughout the tier, and Ice Beam hits the water types like Manaphy and Keldeo.

Overall though, very nice team.

Jimbon · May 2nd, 2012, 12:10:35 PM

Hi Pokemazter,

This is a very solid Sandstorm team you have here, I like the use of Deoxys-S in this team. However I have a better use for it. Looking at your team, I have noticed you have nothing to take on opposing Genesects. Scarf Variants U-Turn out from Chandelures and then trap you with Tyranitar. Celebi lacking Hidden Power [Fire] also means it can force switches very easily with it's powerful U-Turn. Your Genesect in itself can only check it at best at once it takes Life Orb Recoil, your opponent knows that they outspeed and can OHKO with Flamethrower. To combat this, I recommend changing your Deoxys set around a little.

...

This set may seem unorthodox at first, but it's really quite effective. It patches up a lot of problems that I can see with your team as well as providing hazards support for Excadrill and friends. 12 Atk EVs ensure the OHKO on Tyranitar with Superpower, for the times when you think Chandelure may be useful to you and you don't want your opponent getting Rocks up. 72 SAtk EVs guarantee you OHKO 0 HP/4 SDef Genesect with Hidden Power [Fire]. 204 Speed EVs put you at 490 Speed, always outspeeding scarf Genesect by 1 point. Finally, the rest go into HP to help check SD Breloom who is a problem to a lot of teams.

Another thing I have noticed is how much you rely on Excadrill to sweep with this team. From what I've seen, Air Balloon Excadrill generally needs a Swords Dance before it can do anything and even then it gets shut down by a lot of things. What I'm trying to say here is that there is a lot of pressure on Excadrill to defeat a lot things your team has trouble with. I also noticed earlier about Genesect, even though Life Orb may be cool to grant you some extra KO's, it gives away the bluff of a potential Scarf or even Focus Sash. You also mentioned Genesect being slow, why not try a Rock Polish Genesect? It takes some of the pressure off of Excadrill to sweep, as well as checking opposing Excadrills who are very troublesome for your team.

...

This set utilizes all of Genesects offensive traits brilliantly. The lack of U-Turn here really isn't notable, when after a Rock Polish you outspeed pretty much all of the Dream World Metagame. This set transforms Genesect into one of the best revenge killers around, coupled with Deoxys's hazards and a Rock Polish you can beat a lot of Genesects "checks" such as Garchomp, Chandelure and Excadrill.

I also agree with Kidogo on the fact your team is weak to Rain. With no Recover, Celebi can't constantly come in on Keldeo / Manaphy and stop the offensive prowess of Rain Teams in general. I was going to recommend a bulkier Celebi set, however I have something much more effective in mind...

...

Offensive Suicune patches up your Rain Weakness well. A somewhat underrated Pokemon has a great niche in this current Metagame, from much testing I have found it to be the most solid answer to Manaphy. It removes your massive Water weakness and gives you a solid answer to Rain mons spamming Hydro Pump. It's also nice to have one less team member Chandelure bait.

Good luck, hope I helped!

Pokemazter · May 2nd, 2012, 7:59:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Kidogo

I battled this earlier today, very nice team. The weakness to rain teams is noticeable but most if not all sand teams have this. I would suggest changing celebi to a bulkier set with leaf storm, thunder wave, recover, hp fire or something, max hp and SpD or whatever, since it is really your only check for rain teams and this gives you much more survivability.

I would suggest putting rocks on ttar since, as you said, he's mostly dead weight and it frees up a spot for deo. This could go over anything really, although I would probably opt for fire blast or crunch. Furthermore, I might make deoxys fully offensive, as it is a hugely effective late-game cleaner with something like superpower, psycho boost, hp fire/fire punch, thunder(bolt)/ice beam with LO or focus sash. Just PP though.

I would probably switch genesect to either focus sash or choice scarf. The former provides a nice assurance for set-up sweepers gone wild and LO isn't that necessary, while CS is hugely helpful and effective.

Your team is very weak to water and ground attacks, with only one resist for both. Furthermore, it is the same pokemon who resists them, meaning celebi will be worn down very fast, especially with the offensive set you have. In fact, if exca's air balloon is broken, an opposing excadrill with x-scissor easily sweeps the entire team even at +0 if deo and gene have taken just about any prior damage. scarf terrakion with x-scissor also sweeps the team easily. To address both of these, I would suggest getting rid of deoxys, genesect, or chandelure for a physical wall like skarmory or gliscor that could help with these weaknesses. Skarmory could also replace spikes you had on deoxys. I pesonally would suggest replacing chandy, as it is basically useless for more than one KO in this pursuit Ttar-infested metagame, but just PP again.

Also, a typo here. The second ice beam should be tbolt i think.

Overall though, very nice team.

Yeah, the Ice Beam thing was a typo. Thanks for pointing that out.

I figure I will go the route of putting Stealth Rock on Tyranitar. It gives it more than a "trap Chandelure and get Sandstorm up" approach actually gaining use on the team. Deoxys-S wise, I'll probably use the set that Jimbon recommended. I like how it allows me to still run Spikes while provide some offensive presence. I may also attempt the Rock Polish set suggested, as it patches up the one problem I have with Genesect, that being not enough speed. In order to patch up the weakness to said Pokemon and the Water and Ground type Pokemon, I figure I'll take the suggestion of Gliscor over Chandelure, and most likely run the below suggested Suicune to deal with Water types. I love the entry hazards on Deoxys, so I probably won't replace it with a Skarmory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Jimbon

Hi Pokemazter,

This is a very solid Sandstorm team you have here, I like the use of Deoxys-S in this team. However I have a better use for it. Looking at your team, I have noticed you have nothing to take on opposing Genesects. Scarf Variants U-Turn out from Chandelures and then trap you with Tyranitar. Celebi lacking Hidden Power [Fire] also means it can force switches very easily with it's powerful U-Turn. Your Genesect in itself can only check it at best at once it takes Life Orb Recoil, your opponent knows that they outspeed and can OHKO with Flamethrower. To combat this, I recommend changing your Deoxys set around a little.

...

This set may seem unorthodox at first, but it's really quite effective. It patches up a lot of problems that I can see with your team as well as providing hazards support for Excadrill and friends. 12 Atk EVs ensure the OHKO on Tyranitar with Superpower, for the times when you think Chandelure may be useful to you and you don't want your opponent getting Rocks up. 72 SAtk EVs guarantee you OHKO 0 HP/4 SDef Genesect with Hidden Power [Fire]. 204 Speed EVs put you at 490 Speed, always outspeeding scarf Genesect by 1 point. Finally, the rest go into HP to help check SD Breloom who is a problem to a lot of teams.

Another thing I have noticed is how much you rely on Excadrill to sweep with this team. From what I've seen, Air Balloon Excadrill generally needs a Swords Dance before it can do anything and even then it gets shut down by a lot of things. What I'm trying to say here is that there is a lot of pressure on Excadrill to defeat a lot things your team has trouble with. I also noticed earlier about Genesect, even though Life Orb may be cool to grant you some extra KO's, it gives away the bluff of a potential Scarf or even Focus Sash. You also mentioned Genesect being slow, why not try a Rock Polish Genesect? It takes some of the pressure off of Excadrill to sweep, as well as checking opposing Excadrills who are very troublesome for your team.

...

This set utilizes all of Genesects offensive traits brilliantly. The lack of U-Turn here really isn't notable, when after a Rock Polish you outspeed pretty much all of the Dream World Metagame. This set transforms Genesect into one of the best revenge killers around, coupled with Deoxys's hazards and a Rock Polish you can beat a lot of Genesects "checks" such as Garchomp, Chandelure and Excadrill.

I also agree with Kidogo on the fact your team is weak to Rain. With no Recover, Celebi can't constantly come in on Keldeo / Manaphy and stop the offensive prowess of Rain Teams in general. I was going to recommend a bulkier Celebi set, however I have something much more effective in mind...

...

Offensive Suicune patches up your Rain Weakness well. A somewhat underrated Pokemon has a great niche in this current Metagame, from much testing I have found it to be the most solid answer to Manaphy. It removes your massive Water weakness and gives you a solid answer to Rain mons spamming Hydro Pump. It's also nice to have one less team member Chandelure bait.

Good luck, hope I helped!

I rather like the suggestions you've given me. They fit my playstyle, and, for the most part, they're subtle changes that'll make the team better. Because I am however opting to run stealth Rock on Tyranitar instead, what should fill Deoxys' fourth slot? Ice Punch? ThunderPunch? Psycho boost?

Kidogo · May 3rd, 2012, 2:33:51 AM

I really like Jimbon's suggestions--I totally forgot about suicune. The deoxys set is also a great idea--I'd recommend psycho boost as the last slot, as psycho boost + superpower five good coverage together, as well as psycho boost being deoxys's most powerful attack. A note on the EVs: I would go for max Speed to allow deoxys to outspeed +1 garchomp and landorus and speedtie with other deoxys, letting have a chance of getting a layer of spikes down before the taunt. Mostly, it's a (fairly) insignificant investment that could prove game changing if it came down to stopping, say, a salacchomp sweep.

I love the other changes you've made thus far--I think they're real improvements. My only possible suggestion would be possibly taunt > protect on Gliscor, which allows it to beat skarmory and stop phasers. Protect is super-useful though, so up to you.

Also, have you considered choice scarf genesect? Rock polish is an amazing set, but choice scarf might fix your complaints of low speed better. Again, just PP.

Jimbon · May 3rd, 2012, 10:51:28 AM

No problem man, I'm glad you like the suggestions!

As for the fourth move on Deoxys, I'd recommend Psycho Boost / Ice Beam. Psycho Boost allows you to get one more hit off on your foe before you go down, paired with the STAB and Life Orb can allow some easy KO's for Excadrill or Genesect. Ice Beam is also a legitimate option as Deoxys can outspeed a lot of Dragons namely Latios and Dragonite who can be an annoyance to offensive teams.

Good luck with the team man, how has it been doing thus far?

Pokemazter · May 4th, 2012, 6:08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Kidogo

I really like Jimbon's suggestions--I totally forgot about suicune. The deoxys set is also a great idea--I'd recommend psycho boost as the last slot, as psycho boost + superpower five good coverage together, as well as psycho boost being deoxys's most powerful attack. A note on the EVs: I would go for max Speed to allow deoxys to outspeed +1 garchomp and landorus and speedtie with other deoxys, letting have a chance of getting a layer of spikes down before the taunt. Mostly, it's a (fairly) insignificant investment that could prove game changing if it came down to stopping, say, a salacchomp sweep.

I love the other changes you've made thus far--I think they're real improvements. My only possible suggestion would be possibly taunt > protect on Gliscor, which allows it to beat skarmory and stop phasers. Protect is super-useful though, so up to you.

Also, have you considered choice scarf genesect? Rock polish is an amazing set, but choice scarf might fix your complaints of low speed better. Again, just PP.

Speeding up Deoxys-S really doesn't bother me. How should I adjust the EVs? Remove some HP? I have experimented with Taunt over Protect in OU, and really, doesn't do much to help. It doesn't last long, and can be easy to protect around. Protect is just so dead useful with activating Toxic Orb too. I have considered Choice Scarf Genesect. Originally, I really didn't want to use it because I already had a Scarfed Chandelure. I might try it out if I'm finding Rock Polish too difficult to set up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Jimbon

No problem man, I'm glad you like the suggestions!

As for the fourth move on Deoxys, I'd recommend Psycho Boost / Ice Beam. Psycho Boost allows you to get one more hit off on your foe before you go down, paired with the STAB and Life Orb can allow some easy KO's for Excadrill or Genesect. Ice Beam is also a legitimate option as Deoxys can outspeed a lot of Dragons namely Latios and Dragonite who can be an annoyance to offensive teams.

Good luck with the team man, how has it been doing thus far?

Ice Beam really sounds like the better idea. There's more use for it in DW OU than Psycho Boost, especially with all the Dragons running around. It'll deal with Breloom and Amoongus too. This allows Deoxys-S to be more flexible, being a pseudo-sweeper and a hazards setter.

Masttershake · May 8th, 2012, 6:29:39 PM

Change your Genesect to timid if you are going to run Rock Polish.

Pokemazter · May 8th, 2012, 6:39:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Masttershake

Change your Genesect to timid if you are going to run Rock Polish.

Yeah, that was just a typo. It is Timid, as seen in the importable. Thanks for pointing that out.

TrollFreak · May 12th, 2012, 1:25:21 AM

Pokemazter · May 12th, 2012, 1:44:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat TrollFreak

Damn, and I thought I was lazy.

The thing is, I don't really like Scarf Genesect, as I find it can break through so much after a +2 Speed Boost, a +1 Sp.A boost, and Life Orb. It's not as strong as RP Genesect. However, the U-Turn would have been handy in a few situations. I dunno. Would this be a generally superior choice?

On another note, I have issues with Quagsire. Nothing on my team is fairly capable of beating it.

CottonPuff · May 12th, 2012, 3:02:58 PM

If Gastro and Quagy are problems, change Suicunes HP Electric to HP Grass. It still allows you to beat Manaphy, while acting as an excellent lure for the mudfish.

Pokemazter · May 12th, 2012, 3:07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat CottonPuff

If Gastro and Quagy are problems, change Suicunes HP Electric to HP Grass. It still allows you to beat Manaphy, while acting as an excellent lure for the mudfish.

Hey, that works, as it maintains the perfect coverage. Empoleon would be a little bit more of a threat, but that's nothing too bad. Thanks!

Pokemazter · Jun 18th, 2012, 6:23:13 PM

sorry for the bump, there's just a few things I want to say about my team:

First being a massive thanks to those that have helped, it's really done the team well, sitting 7th overall at the time of this post, largely due to the Suicune and gliscor Changes.

Second, I have renamed the team and I won't be posting a threatlist, as nearly anything that could pose a threat to the team can be worked around and dealt with via some improvisation if needbe, so I'll delete that reserve post.

Third, anyone have any opinions on the team now that it sits in the top ten? I feel the team isn't 100% complete, but it's nearing it. Choice Scarf Genesect is out of the question, I greatly prefer the Rock Polish set.

Go nuts!

Pokemazter · Jun 26th, 2012, 10:09:35 PM

Bumping again.

I've found that the increase of Heatran, Slowbro, and Garchomp hasn't been exactly kind to this team. I have only one solid check to Garchomp, and 2, potentially 3, revenge-killers. Heatran and Slowbro are just hard to break because it takes so much time to wear them down and allow my sweepers to break them.

Any ideas?

TheStarRapper · Jun 26th, 2012, 10:27:09 PM

I do have a suggestion that you should consider. Having changed your genesect to rock polish, can you switch to modest? Seeing as most genesects are choice scarf the tie is irrelevant. From modest, you can simply put enough in to beat full speed deo s, which means you need to be at 253 speed. Put the rest in hp for survivability. If you want to outspeed all (relevant) scarfers you should go to 271 speed, as that beats 541 Starmie, and you could honestly just beat 525 for Lati@s, which is approx 263. All in all, this decision will give you the power to better hurt Slowbro and Heatran, but may open you up to other threats that can outspeed before Rp. It's your call.

TL:DR- Genesect Timid-->Modest
Reaching either 253, 263, or 271, and putting the rest into hp.

May 1st, 2012, 10:10:01 PM	#1
Pokemazter 04/01/13 never forget Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 614 Edmonton, AB	Breaking The Bar (Peaked 7th) .::As of June 18, 2012::. (20:03:34) * Your rank in Dream World OU is 7/6175 [1428 points / 51 battles]! Introduction** Back when BW OU was still Sandstorm dominated, much like DW OU is today, I never got to use Excadrill. My family planned a trip that lasted for a month and a half, and by the time we got back, Excadrill had been unanimously banned. Before then, I really wasn't into Competitive Pokemon and was more busy with Rain teams. Enter Deoxys-S, and same story here, except it wasn't a trip. I got mono and pneumonia rearly at the same time, and that took me out for a solid month and a bit. Beforehand, I was using Sand teams and never considered the alien virus. Then, it got banned. Now, having become a better-than-average BW OU player, I decided to venture to the Dream World tier. It's new and upcoming, and it doesn't seem too different from BW OU. Having learned that Deoxys-s and Excadrill were not banned in this metagame, I jumped at the chance to use these Pokemon on a team, something I've never done beforehand. This is a team designed to take everything that was considered broken in BW OU and experiment with it. This is a part of the metagame I never saw, and have really wanted to use. Over the course of nearly two months, the team has seen quite a few wins with few losses, but I feel something is missing. The recent name change, Breaking The Bar is due to a slight "thanks" to one of my friends who helped pull me out of a slump, and challenged me to break 1400 on the OU ladder. Because I can't break 1300 in OU, I tried in DW OU, where I found success. Without his help, I probably never would have reached the peak ranking it currently sits at. Teambuilding Process This team originally started around Genesect. It's a very new Pokemon, and I've heard high praise from it. It looks cool and has great stats, so I decided to build my team around one. It was intended to be a Choice Scarf set, but another Pokemon further along in the Team changed my mind on that, as I'm not fond of multiple choice Pokemon. For Genesect to do its job better and because of how many switches it can, and does, force, I added Deoxys-S to lay down an array of hazards, making switching all the harder for my opponent. Deoxys-S can also stop setup Pokemon dead in their tracks, as Taunt prevents status moves from being used. superpower also gave me a way around Tyranitar without having to U-Turn, as I chose Superpower as Deoxys' attacking move. Rapid Spin support is also appreciated by Genesect, so I took this opportunity to use Excadrill. Because of that choice, Tyranitar found its way onto my team, as it is truly the Pokemon that makes Excadrill what its known for. even with limited success with this team, I understand why Excadrill was banned. after a Swords Dance, not much really stops it, as it tops 550 speed in a Sandstorm, and sports an 810 attack stat after said Swords Dance. tyranitar really doesn't do much on the team but trap Chandelure and get Sandstorm up. Because Breloom can be a pain in the ass for Genesect, I invested in Chandelure and Celebi. both do a very good job of beating Breloom, as both of which have their ways of checking the shroom. Chandelure traps and Revenge Kills it, and Celebi is pseudo-immune to Spore and can switch back in to set up in Breloom's face. Both also do good against other threats in the DW OU metagame such as Keldeo and opposing Genesect. after just shy of 24 hours on Smogon, changes have been seen, watching Chandelure and Celebi both take their leave for two Pokemon more ready to support the team; Gliscor and Suicune. Suicune ends the insane water weakness I had on the previous version of the team, and Gliscor acts well to take on big offensive threats like Terrakion that normally would have torn through my team. In fact, Deoxys-S, Tyranitar, and Genesect also recieved minor changes to their sets. I'm liking this new version. In-Depth Pressure 220 HP / 12 Atk / 72 SAtk / 204 Spd Hasty Nature Spikes Psycho Boost Hidden Power Fire Superpower After having recieved alternate ideas for Deoxys-S, I finally settled on the set adviced by Jimbon, as it allowed for Deoxys to maintain its role of Hazard setter, but also allowed it to cause damage before going down, and actually do something productive on the team outside of getting said hazards up. The set has enough speed to outcreep Scarf Genesect by 1 point, and enough to OHKO Tyranitar with Superpower and Genesect with HP Fire. Ice Beam is here to help rid the opposing team of the Dragon's that swarm to DW OU such as Dragonite or Garchomp. Handy for hitting Amoongus and Breloom too. Synergy: : Chandelure, Genesect, Excadrill, Gliscor : Tyranitar, Excadrill, Genesect : Tyranitar, Excadrill, Genesect Download 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature Rock Polish Flamethrower Ice Beam Thunderbolt Good god talk about beastly. this thing has the strength of the scarf set, but has the freedom to change moves. However, it's really done very little in the battles I've had. Naturally, it's kinda slow, having such a weird Speed stat. However, this is to be generally cured by Jimbon's suggestion of Rock Polish over U-turn, as it will hencefoth patch up the base 99 Speed stat carried by Genosect. Flamethrower, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt gain neutral coverage on everything bar Lanturn, and it's not like one sees it in DW OU every single day. Flamethrower is generally best for the Steel types that migrated upwards from BW OU to try a new tier. It's handy for Exacdrill if my sand or their's isn't up. Ice Beam hits the Dragon types found left, right, and centre throughout the tier, and Ice Beam hits the water types like Manaphy and Keldeo. Synergy: : Suicune, Tyranitar Trait: Sand Stream EVs: 252 HP / 196 SDef / 60 Spd Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk) Pursuit Superpower Fire Blast Stealth Rock As mentioned above, this thing really is here to trap Chandelure and get Sandstorm up. However, thanks to a suggestion by Kidogo, it now carries the role of Stealth Rock layer, something vital in aiding my sweeps. Pursuit is the crux of Tyranitar, as it takes care of the aforementioned Chandelure and most other things that decide to switch out of Tyranitar. Superpower is intended to hit Excadrill on the switch, Fire Blast Steel Types. Now carrying stealth Rock, Tyranitar provides me a way of doing extra damage to an opposing Pokemon, and lightens the hazards load on Deoxys-S' shoulders. From personal experiences, Hippowdon isn't much better either at doing anything really, and this thing at least serves some purpose on the team. Synergy: : Genesect : Deoxys-S, Gliscor : Genesect, Gliscor, Excadrill : Gliscor, Suicune : Suicune : Genesect, Excadrill, Gliscor Sand Rush 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Adamant Nature Earthquake Rock Slide Rapid Spin Swords Dance Dear Gamefreak. This Christmas, I want a Pokemon that once set up in Sandstorm and with a Swords Dance, is nearly unstoppable. Also, make it a Steel type. My team needs a Dragon resist. Thanks. Well, my wish must have been heard. They developed this brute. That wish also sums up what Excadrill does for my team. Sweep though countless (somewhere around 45) Pokemon on the opposing teams with either Rock Slide or Earthquake after having used Swords Dance. Excadrill's also here because of his ability to use Rapid Spin. No spinblocker dares switch in to Excadrill, so it's one of the best out there. I like this Pokemon. A lot. Synergy: : Tyranitar, Suicune : Suicune : Deoxys-S, Gliscor : Gliscor, Suicune Poison Heal 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd Impish Nature Swords Dance Earthquake Ice Fang Protect Suggested by Kidogo, Gliscor is here to give the team a better chance against big offensive Pokemon like opposing Excadrill and Terrakion. I figured this set warranted more value to my team, as it was completely capable of taking hits from Terrakion / Gliscor, and also had the strength of beating them. It can act as a back-up sweeper too. It also acts as a good check to Breloom, as Poisin Heal renders Spore useless, and Ice Fang gives me a way to hit Breloom back, potentially freezing it. Earthquake deals with the aforementioned Terrakion and Excadrill, and basically anything that doesn't resist it. It's good STAB, and after a Swords Dance or two, hits pretty hard. Protect is there to gain me an extra turn of healing from Toxic Orb, or even activate it, and to scout opposing choice sets, especially Genesect, as it may opt for a U-Turn over an Ice Beam. Synergy: : Suicune : Suicune, Tyranitar, Genesect Water Absorb 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature Surf Ice Beam Hidden Power Grass Calm Mind Replacing Celebi on the team, Suicune is here to end the threat posed by Rain Teams and Water-Type Pokemon. Water Absord turns stray Water-type attacks into HP. Suggested by Jimbon, "it removes [my] massive Water weakness and gives [me] a solid answer to Rain mons spamming Hydro Pump. It's also nice to have one less team member Chandelure bait.". He also went to tell me its one of the best answers to Manaphy. Having access to pseudo-BoltBeam coverage and Surf, all three backed up by Calm Mind, Suicune works wonders hitting Fire, Rock, Ground, Flying, Water and weakened Grass types, potentially winning me games. Surf is STAB, and directed at those said Fire, Rock, and Ground type Pokemon, while Ice Beam and HP Grass hit the other mentioned types. HP Grass is also very handy for nabbing Quagsire and Gastrodon, Pokemon that would normally switch in on Suicune. Solid suggestion. Johto sure produced some good Pokemon competitively, didn't they? Synergy: : Excadrill, Gliscor : Genesect Conclusion In the scheme of things, thanks for the read and rate. This is my first DW OU team, so do exaggerate on big checks to my team and if my team is in anyway decent. I'll attempt to have a threatlist up no later than a week from today. I am looking for maybe a better Tyranitar set (or something to replace it), and I am questioning a few things, which you'll read in the descriptions. I'll probably add move to this RMT as time passes. Importable Deoxys-S @ Life Orb Trait: Pressure EVs: 220 HP / 12 Atk / 72 SAtk / 204 Spd Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def) - Psycho Boost - Hidden Power [Fire] - Superpower - Spikes Genesect @ Life Orb Trait: Download EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Rock Polish - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Flamethrower Tyranitar (M) @ Shed Shell Trait: Sand Stream EVs: 252 HP / 196 SDef / 60 Spd Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk) - Pursuit - Superpower - Fire Blast - Stealth Rock Excadrill (M) @ Air Balloon Trait: Sand Rush EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Earthquake - Rock Slide - Rapid Spin - Swords Dance Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb Trait: Poison Heal EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Swords Dance - Earthquake - Ice Fang - Protect Suicune @ Leftovers Trait: Water Absorb EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Surf - Ice Beam - Hidden Power [Grass] - Calm Mind And as a note, whoever stole my alt of "Mazz", you're a very crude person. Last edited by Pokemazter; Jun 26th, 2012 at 10:06:20 PM.

May 1st, 2012, 11:27:42 PM	#2
drakon136 Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 146 Canadia	Just skimmed over the team before I rate it, but there were two things that stood out to me. First, why Flash Fire and not Shadow Tag on Chandelure? And why does Tyranitar have a -SpA nature on a mixed set? __________________ Resident Type-MOON Fan

May 2nd, 2012, 12:10:35 PM	#5
Jimbon already over Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 487	Hi Pokemazter, This is a very solid Sandstorm team you have here, I like the use of Deoxys-S in this team. However I have a better use for it. Looking at your team, I have noticed you have nothing to take on opposing Genesects. Scarf Variants U-Turn out from Chandelures and then trap you with Tyranitar. Celebi lacking Hidden Power [Fire] also means it can force switches very easily with it's powerful U-Turn. Your Genesect in itself can only check it at best at once it takes Life Orb Recoil, your opponent knows that they outspeed and can OHKO with Flamethrower. To combat this, I recommend changing your Deoxys set around a little. ... Deoxys-S @ Life Orb Trait: Pressure EVs: 220 HP / 12 Atk / 72 SAtk / 204 Spd Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def) - Stealth Rock - Hidden Power [Fire] - Superpower - Spikes This set may seem unorthodox at first, but it's really quite effective. It patches up a lot of problems that I can see with your team as well as providing hazards support for Excadrill and friends. 12 Atk EVs ensure the OHKO on Tyranitar with Superpower, for the times when you think Chandelure may be useful to you and you don't want your opponent getting Rocks up. 72 SAtk EVs guarantee you OHKO 0 HP/4 SDef Genesect with Hidden Power [Fire]. 204 Speed EVs put you at 490 Speed, always outspeeding scarf Genesect by 1 point. Finally, the rest go into HP to help check SD Breloom who is a problem to a lot of teams. Another thing I have noticed is how much you rely on Excadrill to sweep with this team. From what I've seen, Air Balloon Excadrill generally needs a Swords Dance before it can do anything and even then it gets shut down by a lot of things. What I'm trying to say here is that there is a lot of pressure on Excadrill to defeat a lot things your team has trouble with. I also noticed earlier about Genesect, even though Life Orb may be cool to grant you some extra KO's, it gives away the bluff of a potential Scarf or even Focus Sash. You also mentioned Genesect being slow, why not try a Rock Polish Genesect? It takes some of the pressure off of Excadrill to sweep, as well as checking opposing Excadrills who are very troublesome for your team. ... Genesect @ Life Orb Trait: Download EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Rock Polish - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Flamethrower / Bug Buzz This set utilizes all of Genesects offensive traits brilliantly. The lack of U-Turn here really isn't notable, when after a Rock Polish you outspeed pretty much all of the Dream World Metagame. This set transforms Genesect into one of the best revenge killers around, coupled with Deoxys's hazards and a Rock Polish you can beat a lot of Genesects "checks" such as Garchomp, Chandelure and Excadrill. I also agree with Kidogo on the fact your team is weak to Rain. With no Recover, Celebi can't constantly come in on Keldeo / Manaphy and stop the offensive prowess of Rain Teams in general. I was going to recommend a bulkier Celebi set, however I have something much more effective in mind... ... Suicune @ Leftovers Trait: Water Absorb EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Surf - Ice Beam - Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Electric] - Calm Mind Offensive Suicune patches up your Rain Weakness well. A somewhat underrated Pokemon has a great niche in this current Metagame, from much testing I have found it to be the most solid answer to Manaphy. It removes your massive Water weakness and gives you a solid answer to Rain mons spamming Hydro Pump. It's also nice to have one less team member Chandelure bait. Good luck, hope I helped! Last edited by Jimbon; May 6th, 2012 at 10:37:20 AM.

May 12th, 2012, 1:25:21 AM	#12
TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,249 New York born, New York proud	__________________ Work Ever wanted to contribute to Smogon? Visit the Contributions and Corrections forum! ~SNOVERS~

May 12th, 2012, 3:02:58 PM	#14
CottonPuff Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 53 McDonalds	If Gastro and Quagy are problems, change Suicunes HP Electric to HP Grass. It still allows you to beat Manaphy, while acting as an excellent lure for the mudfish. __________________ Happiny

May 3rd, 2012, 2:33:51 AM	#7
Kidogo Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 439	I really like Jimbon's suggestions--I totally forgot about suicune. The deoxys set is also a great idea--I'd recommend psycho boost as the last slot, as psycho boost + superpower five good coverage together, as well as psycho boost being deoxys's most powerful attack. A note on the EVs: I would go for max Speed to allow deoxys to outspeed +1 garchomp and landorus and speedtie with other deoxys, letting have a chance of getting a layer of spikes down before the taunt. Mostly, it's a (fairly) insignificant investment that could prove game changing if it came down to stopping, say, a salacchomp sweep. I love the other changes you've made thus far--I think they're real improvements. My only possible suggestion would be possibly taunt > protect on Gliscor, which allows it to beat skarmory and stop phasers. Protect is super-useful though, so up to you. Also, have you considered choice scarf genesect? Rock polish is an amazing set, but choice scarf might fix your complaints of low speed better. Again, just PP.

May 3rd, 2012, 10:51:28 AM	#8
Jimbon already over Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 487	No problem man, I'm glad you like the suggestions! As for the fourth move on Deoxys, I'd recommend Psycho Boost / Ice Beam. Psycho Boost allows you to get one more hit off on your foe before you go down, paired with the STAB and Life Orb can allow some easy KO's for Excadrill or Genesect. Ice Beam is also a legitimate option as Deoxys can outspeed a lot of Dragons namely Latios and Dragonite who can be an annoyance to offensive teams. Good luck with the team man, how has it been doing thus far?

May 8th, 2012, 6:29:39 PM	#10
Masttershake Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 22	Change your Genesect to timid if you are going to run Rock Polish.

Jun 18th, 2012, 6:23:13 PM	#16
Pokemazter 04/01/13 never forget Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 614 Edmonton, AB	sorry for the bump, there's just a few things I want to say about my team: First being a massive thanks to those that have helped, it's really done the team well, sitting 7th overall at the time of this post, largely due to the Suicune and gliscor Changes. Second, I have renamed the team and I won't be posting a threatlist, as nearly anything that could pose a threat to the team can be worked around and dealt with via some improvisation if needbe, so I'll delete that reserve post. Third, anyone have any opinions on the team now that it sits in the top ten? I feel the team isn't 100% complete, but it's nearing it. Choice Scarf Genesect is out of the question, I greatly prefer the Rock Polish set. Go nuts!

Jun 26th, 2012, 10:09:35 PM	#17
Pokemazter 04/01/13 never forget Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 614 Edmonton, AB	Bumping again. I've found that the increase of Heatran, Slowbro, and Garchomp hasn't been exactly kind to this team. I have only one solid check to Garchomp, and 2, potentially 3, revenge-killers. Heatran and Slowbro are just hard to break because it takes so much time to wear them down and allow my sweepers to break them. Any ideas?

Jun 26th, 2012, 10:27:09 PM	#18
TheStarRapper Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 179 Everybody gets one.	I do have a suggestion that you should consider. Having changed your genesect to rock polish, can you switch to modest? Seeing as most genesects are choice scarf the tie is irrelevant. From modest, you can simply put enough in to beat full speed deo s, which means you need to be at 253 speed. Put the rest in hp for survivability. If you want to outspeed all (relevant) scarfers you should go to 271 speed, as that beats 541 Starmie, and you could honestly just beat 525 for Lati@s, which is approx 263. All in all, this decision will give you the power to better hurt Slowbro and Heatran, but may open you up to other threats that can outspeed before Rp. It's your call. TL:DR- Genesect Timid-->Modest Reaching either 253, 263, or 271, and putting the rest into hp. __________________ Now an EMT for Los Angeles county. PM me for house calls. (Totally legit I swear.) PM me for an OU team rate!