|May 22nd, 2012, 11:55:24 PM||#1|
Join Date: Mar 2012
RMT: Event Horizon
Hello there, friendly Smogon community!
I've been lurking here for a while now, checking out teams that others have posted and trying over and over to create my own, hoping that one will work as well as some of yours do (I'm still in love with Burning Bright). And after about fifty custom-yet-sub-par teams, I've finally organized one that plays successfully. That being said, it isn't perfect, and I want your professional opinions! So without further ado, here is Event Horizon.
At a glance..
Team building process.
Jirachi @ Leftovers Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Doom Desire
It's funny how accurately this picture "describes" Jirachi's job on this team.. Anyway, as is the case with two other Pokemon in Event Horizon, I cannot credit this specific set to myself. Regardless, Jirachi's bulk paired with its ability to Wish or Wish-pass fluidly with U-Turn makes it a real pain to deal with. It also forces switches via the same method with Doom Desire, pressuring out Pokemon who don't want to take a 140 base power Steel-type Future Sight and fishing for things like opposing Heatran, Skarmory, Forretress, or anything else that might resist it. Protect is for when Jirachi needs to heal itself instead of a teammate, or for when it simply needs to scout.
Heatran (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
You shall not pass, etc.! Mean Heatran is mean, and although he gets eaten alive by most other Heatran, his ability to come in on assholes like boosted Volcarona/Cloyster/Latis and Roar makes him just the momentum stopper needed to prevent a sweep. He still uses caution around the physical dragons, though, for fear of Earthquake, but that's what Protect is for. Lava Plume hopes to burn any other physical attackers who may not have Earthquake (save for Conkeldurr and Mienshao) and cripple them. The EVs in SDef are for obvious defensive coverage combined with burn, and Stealth Rock is here because no one else on the team is using it.
Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch
The nature and EVs here are to help absorb physical fighting attacks for now, but as I should be with everything in this RMT, I am open to change.. Assuming you give me something else to work with. In any case, this set is sort of a combination of several standard Rotom-W sets. Tricking off its Scarf is a fun way to start battles against obvious leads such as Mienshao, Forretress, Azelf, and Ferrothorn--none of whom appreciate wearing it; however, this Rotom-W is not a one-trick Ponyta (insert snare drums here). Against a Pokemon who doesn't need to be crippled by the scarf, I can utilize that speed to paralyze fast threats, burn physical threats, or use my best judgment against fast physical threats. If I don't need to do any of those three things, I can Volt Switch away with that scarf speed, taking priority over anything not in the "fast sweeper" tier. The double status coverage may seem redundant, but I assure you it's been more useful and reliable than Hydro Pump.
Salamence (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 232 HP / 84 Def / 176 SAtk / 16 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
Sup guys, just a physical sweeper here carrying Moxie LOL J/K OMG! But no seriously, talk about catching an opponent off-guard. Three types of special coverage including STABbed dragon-type, as well as Roost just because.. you know.. because you can do that with 232 HP EVs, 84 Def EVs, and Intimidate. It speaks for itself, but since rules require it, I'll say it stomps things that want to wall it such as Skarmory, Forretress, Heatran, and Ferrothorn. It stomps other things too, but these are its usual victims.
Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch
Sup guys, pretty standard Forretress here just doing my thing. Heatran carries Stealth Rock and I've never cared for wasting three turns on Spikes, so this is what we're rolling with. As for other thoughts on this, Wish helps me recycle Sturdy. Oh, and don't underestimate the Gyro Ball. Don't.
Trait: Justified @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack
As I mentioned in the team-building process, I wanted a revenge killer who could also act as another sweeper, as Salamence was my only one. It comes in safely most of the time due to forced switches by Jirachi's Doom Desire or Rotom-W's Trick or status afflictions, setting up a Rock Polish and going to town on anything without Mach Punch or Bullet Punch. I had X-Scissor in place of Quick Attack for a while, but then I realized that I wasn't using it that much, and I wasn't able to outspeed many things that needed to be outsped without using Rock Polish. I really don't know the best item to give Terrakion here, so for now he's rolling with the Life Orb in hopes of getting a couple OHKOs before poison and/or Life Orb damage kill him off. As I said before, he tends to either demolish and help me win a battle, or just plain suck (see: bad predictions).
I would love to incorporate a ghost to block spins and negate Close Combat/Drain Punch, but I'm not entirely sure how to go about it. Replacing Terrakion with another Pokemon immune to Toxic Spikes would also be neat, just so I could say that Toxic Spikes are useless against my team.. But that's not really necessary.
This team is called Event Horizon because it tends to make a battle stretch out, torturing the other team for a while before crushing it completely (I will include a log below). At least that's the way it goes if I play well or if my opponent plays poorly. If you read this to the end, thank you very much. I am open to any and all criticism as long as you don't crucify me; this is the first RMT that I've posted here.
Random battle log in which I attempt to make myself and/or my team look really badass:
Last edited by Wild Sudowoodo; May 23rd, 2012 at 5:59:40 PM.
|May 23rd, 2012, 6:39:00 AM||#2|
Join Date: Apr 2012
VM for an OU rate
Hello Nice Team
First off Terrakion is missing its item. Secondly also adressing Terrakion is how you mentioned his sweep is very situational. It is probably beneficial for your Terrakion if your Hetran carries Magma Storm. Magma Storm Forces the opponent to stay in and lets you switch into a counter with no prediction required. If the pokemon stuck in is something like MixTar Terrakion can switch in and Boost up and even potentially nab a Justified boost from crunch on the switch
Then again Magma storms accuracy is suckish at best and you may want to not use it at all. Just a small suggestion
|May 23rd, 2012, 4:14:40 PM||#3|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Thank you for your feedback, Asek. Yes the typo with Terrakion is probably due to my constant switching of his items to see what works best for me, but it should read Life Orb. I will switch over to Magma Storm as it fits my needs better anyway, but you're right about the terrible accuracy. I've used it before and it can be enough to make you pull your hair out.
|May 23rd, 2012, 4:25:14 PM||#4|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Hello there, Sudowoodo, and welcome to Smogon!
I'll be typing up something for you soon, but I have one comment to make first - I completely disagree with giving Heatran Magma Storm. A defensive Heatran shouldn't be using Magma Storm, as outside of trapping it has no use as well as horrible accuracy. Stick with Lava Plume.
Now then, time for the rate. You've got some interesting sets, particularly that Jirachi and the Rotom-W. But still...
Your team is incredibly Terrakion weak. Your Rotom-W, despite the defensive investment, still doesn't take its Close Combat that well, and Intimidate will be useless when Terrakion switches into it. To this end, I first suggest switching Forretress for a Starmie. Take it from somebody who used to use Forretress on almost every team - Forry sucks now. He isn't bulky enough to handle the powerful sweepers that exist in today's metagame, and aside from taking Outrages, his typing doesn't really do him any favors. Additionally, Toxic Spikes conflicts with your Rotom-W's status moves. Heatran's Stealth Rock is really the only hazard you need. Starmie, while significantly less bulky, is fast and powerful while still packing Rapid Spin. Starmie also gives you a great Pokemon to use on Rain teams, as a Rain-boosted Hydro Pump is going to hurt just about anything. Additionally, Natural Cure and Recover combine for a virtual immunity to status, although Natural Cure requires that you switch. Starmie outspeeds Terrakion as well as several other Pokemon.
Now, your Salamence doesn't seem to really do anything. Mono-Special Salamence has never been a popular set because it's completely outclassed by the Lati twins and Hydreigon. And ignoring Salamence's monstrous Attack is a horrible mistake. There are two Salamence sets that make use of Special moves. Judging by your set, you'd prefer to keep your Salamence around for a while. I suggest trying out the Classic Mixmence. This Salamence uses Draco Meteor and Fire Blast to punch through the typical Special walls while still taking advantage of that massive Attack through Brick Break / Earthquake. In a pinch, it can heal with Roost.
Lastly, there is the issue of your own Terrakion. It doesn't really offer much to the team - it's not too powerful and weak to most priority. Quick Attack is pathetically weak without Swords Dance or a Choice Band. Terrakion isn't even that cool (okay, sure, that's my opinion, but I'm setting up the next line). You know what is cool? Agility Metagross. Agiligross is one of the most effective late-game sweepers around, and has the bulk to absorb a hit or two and dish one out earlier in a pinch. With a Jolly nature, Agility allows it to outspeed Choice Scarf Landorus and anything slower after a single boost, and Clear Body ensures that no random Intimidate users are going to ruin your day. While Metagross is slightly weaker than Terrakion, it is far bulkier and takes far less damage from all priority attacks but Sucker Punch. Don't worry about the shared typing with Jirachi, as all of their weaknesses are covered on this team.
Also, you say Hydro Pump is unreliable on Rotom but you're using it on Salamence. Not criticizing the Rotom (it's pretty nifty, actually) but isn't that fact a bit... weird?
New to Smogon? Afraid to jump into discussion? Introduce yourself!
Fail Cup | Scramble! | RMTs: Night Stall (OU) | ARcTicblast | Demon Spawn | signature art by Zracknel
additional credit to Pocket and AccidentalGreed
Last edited by Arcticblast; May 23rd, 2012 at 5:21:09 PM.
|May 23rd, 2012, 4:39:13 PM||#5|
Join Date: Mar 2011
Hey this is a great team. I'd recommend changing Terrakion around a slight bit though. Keep ev's same, just give him a jolly nature and make him double boosting w/ rock gem like this.
4 hp/252 att/252 spe
You really don't need quick attack if you're using rock polish, so make the most of his power and go with swords dance as well. A +2 Stone Edge w/ rock gem will always OHKO Standard 252 hp/184 def gliscor (assuming it hits) and with rock polish you can obviously still outrun stuff w/o quick attack, which wouldn't hit that hard anyways.
Hope this helped, otherwise your team is quite good.
Running is Funning!
|May 23rd, 2012, 5:57:45 PM||#6|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Thank you again for the rates. You're absolutely right about Toxic Spikes conflicting with Rotom-W's status attacks, and I will give Starmie a try. When I was speaking of Hydro Pump's reliability, I wasn't talking about its accuracy; people expect Rotom-W to carry Hydro Pump and are normally able to switch something in that can take it. The opposite can also be said for Salamence, because people don't expect it to carry that attack. Mixmence is monstrous, but for now my Salamence works because people expect it to carry those standard attacks.
Too true, Metagross is amazing, so thank you for reminding me about him. One Agility and he's good to go, Meteor Mash upping his attack every now and then. Actually this is a perfect replacement for Terrakion.
I think what I'll do is test out Starmie and Metagross, leaving Salamence alone for a while. After running with that for a bit, I'll change it to the Salamence set you recommended and see which one works better for me. Until then, I want to leave the original post as is to get more fresh perspectives on it.
Also, that Terrakion set can be quite fun and I have used it before. The only problem is that he's so weak to two types of common priority attacks in fighting and steel that it can be cumbersome to get in both Rock Polish and Swords Dance. I'm sure this can be used perfectly as a late game sweeper if I eliminate the correct opposition, but I'm not super skilled like some guys out there who can pull it off. I'll give it a few runs because I appreciate your willingness to help, but I have to be honest and tell you that I don't have much confidence in my ability to utilize it efficiently.
|May 23rd, 2012, 9:30:29 PM||#7|
Join Date: Jan 2011
without HP Fire, Ferrothorn's Power Whip does over 50% to bold 252/252 Rotom-W...why not just use Modest with Choice Scarf to maximize Volt Switch damage to keep momentum on your side? With HP fire/Hydro Pump/Volt Switch/Pain Split, Rotom W is a bitch to get rid of an wall
Platinum FC: 5071 4261 7844
White FC: 3053 3357 0014
White 2 FC: 4642 6792 5119
|May 23rd, 2012, 10:48:52 PM||#8|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Also, what does burned Ferrothorn's Power Whip do to Bold 252 Def Rotom-W?
|May 24th, 2012, 12:45:59 AM||#9|
don't be scared homie
Join Date: May 2011
Hey, it's a solid team, but your sets could use some tweaking. You're currently quite weak to stall with your choice of Terrakion and Salamence sets. That Salamence set isn't catching much off guard with Leftovers, and Terrakion can't break through stall without Swords Dance. I suggest using a Moxie-based Lure Salamence with a Double Dance Terrakion. This Salamence plays off the popularity of MoxieScarfMence to lure in some of +2 Terrakion's checks including Skarmory, Quagsire and Gliscor, making a formidable one-two punch against stall teams.
Toxic Spikes don't really fit on your team. The small amounts of residual damage doesn't matter with two such heavy hitters in Terrakion and Salamence. Getting status on Gastrodon and Blissey doesn't really matter as well, with Rotom's TrickScarf to cripple them, making them setup fodder for Terrakion. I would just use Stealth Rock on Forretress and HP Ice on Heatran. With Sturdy, Forry can get up SR just as reliably as Heatran, while HP Ice helps with Dragonite. Speaking of Heatran, I suggest using 160 Speed EVs. These Speed EVs allow Heatran to outspeed all Scizor variants, as well as outpace Modest Magnezone, which will look to trap and eliminate your Forretress. You won't really miss the extra bulk, especially with 2 other steel-types to fall back on.
Lastly, I suggest using Hydro Pump on Rotom-W so you'll have an easier time against CB Terrakion and non-Scarf Landorus (Forretress can handle Scarf variants of these two). I know you don't like Hydro Pump's accuracy, but if you put up with it while using your current Salamence, it should be no problem. I would use Hydro Pump over Will-O-Wisp as Forretress coupled with Heatran burning stuff should be enough to handle physical threats. This means you'll need Timid; 252 SpA / 4 SpA / 252 Spe to be able to outspend and ko Landorus / Terrakion. You don't need that much bulk on Rotom for reasons mentioned earlier.
Salamence | Moxie | Fire Gem
Naive | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Outrage | Dragon Claw | Fire Blast | Earthquake
Terrakion | Justfied | Air Balloon
Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Swords Dance | Rock Polish | Stone Edge | Close Combat
Hope this helps!
|May 25th, 2012, 2:23:59 PM||#10|
Join Date: Mar 2012
I'm very happy with Metagross, but Starmie has been a little harder to get used to. Any suggestions here?
Thank you for the help, BTzz. I have a lot of testing to do with these suggestions and now that it's the weekend, I'll finally have enough time to do it.