CAP 3 - Part 13 - Movepool Submissions - Page 3

ZhengTann · Jun 6th, 2012, 1:03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bugmaniacbob

Okay, entirely aesthetic feedback time:

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ZhengTann: Again, 20 moves is somewhat more than the usual number for level-up moves. Also, you ought to include a list of egg move illegalities. Also, I'm not entirely sure where you are getting your ingame tutors from - the Pt and HGSS Tutors don't exist in BW, after all.
...

Yep, thank you very much. Tried squeezing, but I think unless I removed Mud Slap and Mud Shot off the level-up list (which will require much persuading), I'm happy with it. There exist precedents (to quote capefeather) about longer level-up lists in BW Pokemons in-game, so I'm okay with it. The tutors' part is quite a head-spinner - I had to bloat my egg moves' list just to incorporate the changes, but the shuffling is done. I'll put in a hidebox regarding breeding illegalities soon - it won't be too hard, as I think yours and Banryu's are good starting points for me.

EDIT: Maybe I can remove Flame Charge and Poison Jab from the level-up list. After all, TMs are available competitive-wise, and it seems to be stretching it a little too far for Mollux to learn those moves naturally. I'll work on it, after a night's sleep

Mari · Jun 6th, 2012, 1:29:56 PM

Did some changes to my movepool you can see here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=23

Removed Moves:
-Thunderwave (since it has already Toxic, Toxic Spikes and Will-O-Wisp)
-Coil (it has already Stockpile to increase its Def and it doesn't really need the +Acc of Coil)
-Pain Split (Recover and Rest remain)
-Psych Up (see below)
-Wring Out (needed some space in the level-up movepool)
New: -Growth (Calm Mind and Charge Beam are enough)

Added Moves:
-Rapid Spin (Mollux is a very nice Spinner. Its Stealth Rock damage is healed in one turn, so it has nearly unlimited switch-ins and can abuse its pivot capabilities most beneficial.)
-Sleep Talk (Sleep Talk seems to be a good option for Mollux. You will see this in my sample movesets below)
-Power Swap (Replacement for Psych Up - enables Mollux to push its Overheat Special Attack drop onto its opponent)
-Magic Coat (Allows Mollux to be a reasonable lead - bouncing Taunt and Stealth Rock)
New: -Disable (to stop Choice item users)

Example movesets:

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srk1214 · Jun 6th, 2012, 2:14:05 PM

Captivate is a TM in 4th gen only.

Mari · Jun 6th, 2012, 2:34:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat srk1214

Captivate is a TM in 4th gen only.

Thank you, already removed it.

Nyktos · Jun 6th, 2012, 4:07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat MCBarrett

nobody will be using fire spin or stockpile anyways so thats not a problem and i think you can make an argument for morning sun being a better level-up move too in terms of flavor. it definitely says "fire type" more than recover does. it also goes with mollux having illuminate as an ability with the morning sun being a source of illumination.

I'm well aware Fire Spin and Stockpile won't be top-tier competitive moves whether or not they're legal with Recover, but they're interesting fringe options that I don't want to punish people for trying out. Gastropods getting Recover by level-up is well-established: Slugma/Magcargo, Shellos/Gastrodon, and Shelmet/Accelgor all do.

That being said, it's clear that people really don't like the idea of Synthesis, so I will explore other means of giving it Morning Sun / Moonlight. Maybe having both that and Recover as level-up moves is not terrible if the distance between them is enough?

Cretacerus · Jun 6th, 2012, 4:14:39 PM

Here's my idea for Mollux's movepool.
As you will see, i tried to integrate various flavour elements and tools for diverse gameplay options (a particular focus on sun Mollux), while keeping the movepool as clear and comprehensible as possible.
I hope you don't let the long text and unpracticed tongue of a foreign speaker discourage you :D

Total: 35/65 VGA
(2 Repeats + 1 Pair of equivalents)

Level-Up: 8/16 VGA

...

The Level-Up-Movepool begins with a rather unconventional move in Growth. The reason I chose it over something like Withdraw is the fact that i absolutely wanted to place it somewhere in Mollux's movepool, and it fits here rather well. Growth is Mollux's only boosting move, and helps to compensate the lack of recovery in sun with more offensive presence.
As Mollux hatches, it possesses the moves Growth and Constrict. They support the picture of the baby snail acting very passiv, focusing on growing and using its tentacles rather haphazardly when encountering a foe.
In lv 5 then Mollux learns Poison Sting, which means, he now adapts to the more active lifestyle of a cone snail.
From lv 10 on the attacks become more and more based on the lava lamp, beginning with the rather harmless Flash and Confuse Ray and brought to a final with the mighty Eruption at lv 60. Learning Eruption through leveling up gives sun sets an easier time and doesn't force him into the field group.
Within all those power attacks there are occasionally some flavor moves such as Mudshot and Whirlpool (gives it the style of the sea monster caryptis, and adds some water to the movepool), and most outstanding: the three moves Stockpile, Swallow and Spit Up, all learned in lv 42. This three moves fit the theme so well, i had to include them to the Level-Up-Movepool: Stockpile on Mollux combines the gathering of energie (just like Lanturn) with the mixture of diverse toxics (Swalot). Swallow goes hand in hand with Stockpile, and the cone snail demonstrates it exemplary, and Spit Up was added to complete the trio.
One last move that deserves a mention on the Level-Up-Movepool is Morning Sun: It's hard to justify its presence purely under flavor aspects, and i'll admit it's there because of competitive reasons (again for giving sun sets a little advantage over rain abusers), but Morning Sun actually does a job in associating warmth and colourfulness with Mollux.

TM / HM: 22/36 VGA

...

Out of the TMs, there are three which i think are worth a closer look, because of the noticable effect they would have on Mollux's performance:

--Calm Mind
I decided to exclude it from Mollux's learnset, because he already has a comparatively high special attack for the role he should fulfill and because of how easy he can get free turns. It should also be noted, that Calm Mind (being a TM move) would be available on any set including those with Recover.
As for boosting his special attack, Growth and Charge Beam should really be the only options he gets. (I feel the +2 boost of Growth in sun is tolerable because Mollux's role on sun teams is different)

--Light Screen
Light Screen is in the TM list, because Mollux should be able to support his team, and after not getting Stealth Rock or Heal Bell (and Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin being restricted due to being Egg Moves), i felt Light Screen wouldn't be that harmful.
Furthermore, Mollux was clearly stated as a pokemon which should be able to boost its special defense, and Light Screen matches this, as it can be given to every set without restrictions. With the special defense boost, Mollux will have an easier time dealing with strong rain sweepers such as Tornadus, while the mostly physical moves (Earthquake) of his counters remain uneffected. As Mollux with Light Screen would be most likely supportive and therefore forgo coverage moves, Earth Power users such as Heatran and Gastrodon shouldn't have a hard time either.

--Thunder Wave
Thunder Wave is virtually obligatory for flavour reasons, because of the lava lamp's relation to electricity and Mollux's ability to learn Thunder, Thunderbolt and Charge Beam through TM.
It's competitive effects also shouldn't be overestimated, because it can only hit counters on the switch, and poison and burn are generally more useful status considering Mollux's playstyle.

Egg Moves (Amorpheus + Water1): 6/9 VGA

...

--The first three moves where added purely for flavour reasons:
Fissure refers to the ability of a cone snail to create a giant hole and let things (preferable fish) disappear in it forever,
Sweet Kiss is a standart move for accentuating a pokemon's cuteness and fits Mollux's mouthform surprisingly well,
Signal Beam is based on the blinding colourfulness of a lava lamp (Camouflague was actually intended for this purpose, but it could have endangered the typing concept).

--Then we have three moves, which where placed here to give Mollux more competitive options.
Switcheroo lets Mollux make use of choice items, which is useful mainly for sun abusers, as rain sets can't fully take advantage of the fire stab and the rain boosted Octazooka is illegal with Switcheroo. Switcheroo over Trick, because it sounds cuter and gives Mollux something mischievous (he strikes faster than the eye can follow), both of with suits him rather well.
Clear Smog is another important move for Mollux, as you don't want the pokemon you actually wall to set up on you. Clear Smog is also part of the "take advantage of youre typing"-theme, and therefore i consider to eventually put it into his Level-Up moves. Having to give up the other egg moves for it just puts this Clear Smog in a too bad position...
Octazooka, a hugly controversial move: it was certain, that, if it was included, this had to be an egg move, not only because of the flavor aspect of it being a signature move, but because the unrestricted access to it would really mess up Mollux's role in the metagame. Therefore Mollux was put in the Water1 egg group.
The exclusivity of Octazooka from the other competitive egg moves (including and especially the following three) helps to balance Octazooka's competitiveness to a tolerable amount.

--Finally Mollux's three most important egg moves: Conveniantly, non of these moves are compatible with the other, so Mollux is restricted to a single of these.
Recover is a very good move on Mollux and gives it a reliable of healing itself, which even sun sets could appreciate enough to use it over Morning Sun, and in rain (combined with dry skin and potentially Light Screen) it allows him to wall almost any rain team member.
Toxic Spikes: It's his only form of entry hazard, as this shoulnd't be his primary playstyle. Still, Toxic Spikes allows Mollux to successfully abuse status and maybe even combine it with a great stab in Venoshock.
Rapid Spin is the third option Mollux has here. He himself might not be the best spinner, but his ability to masterfully handle common spinblockers certainly makes it worth a consideration.
Note that sets running Toxic Spikes or Rapid Spin can still run the Level-Up-Move Morning Sun as recovery if they want to support their team over a longer period.

Possible Combinations

As this is my first submission, im aware that there might be certain mistakes in there, so i would greatly appreciate, if you guys informed me when you come across anything strange.

EDIT: This is now my Final Submission

**Deck Knight** · Jun 6th, 2012, 4:31:34 PM

Just leaving a note here that I have been monitoring the thread, it's just this is an insanely busy week for me. It's probably not going to let up until Sunday, sadly, but I'll try to do what needs to be done before then.

MCBarrett · Jun 6th, 2012, 4:32:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Nyktos

I'm well aware Fire Spin and Stockpile won't be top-tier competitive moves whether or not they're legal with Recover, but they're interesting fringe options that I don't want to punish people for trying out. Gastropods getting Recover by level-up is well-established: Slugma/Magcargo, Shellos/Gastrodon, and Shelmet/Accelgor all do.

That being said, it's clear that people really don't like the idea of Synthesis, so I will explore other means of giving it Morning Sun / Moonlight. Maybe having both that and Recover as level-up moves is not terrible if the distance between them is enough?

I think that would be fine, maybe make them available on the same level? I know that happens with many other similar moves

CiteAndPrune · Jun 6th, 2012, 4:40:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Nyktos

I'm well aware Fire Spin and Stockpile won't be top-tier competitive moves whether or not they're legal with Recover, but they're interesting fringe options that I don't want to punish people for trying out. Gastropods getting Recover by level-up is well-established: Slugma/Magcargo, Shellos/Gastrodon, and Shelmet/Accelgor all do.

That being said, it's clear that people really don't like the idea of Synthesis, so I will explore other means of giving it Morning Sun / Moonlight. Maybe having both that and Recover as level-up moves is not terrible if the distance between them is enough?

In my moveset Mollux learns both Wish and Moonlight as Level Up moves, and of these, Wish is learned very early while Moonlight very late. They serve different purposes, for early game and late game healing. So I don't think adding two healing moves in the level up list is a bad idea at all.

Before you do that though, think of the competitive consequences: sun, rain and weatherless teams will all be able to pick the healing move of their preference and still tailor Mollux to their needs with whatever egg moves it gets. If you're fine with that much freedom, I'd say go for it.

Nyktos · Jun 6th, 2012, 4:44:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Flarephoenix332

Hi, Flarephoenix here. I'd like to talk about something that is bugging me flavour-wise (and movepools are a hybrid of flavour and competitiveness).

Level-Up Movepools. A lot of the level-up pools I'm seeing have no recognizable pattern to the levels in which a pokemon learns move when they level up, if there even is one. Most (and I only saw most because I may have missed one) pokemon have a pattern to how they learn moves leveling up, with slight hiccups for evolution.

This inspired me; my level-up moves are now in a consistent pattern of 3-3-5.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat MCBarrett

I think that would be fine, maybe make them available on the same level? I know that happens with many other similar moves

Morning Sun is now a level-up move. I decided that having a difference of 20 levels between felt okay. Acid Armor has been moved to egg moves to compensate.

forestflamerunner · Jun 6th, 2012, 9:13:50 PM

Banryu I don’t Feel like Mollux would be a great user of Final Gambit. When you use Final gambit, you want to be faster than your opponent so that you don’t get slammed with a powerful attack right before using final gambit so as to keep your HP at a maximum. Mollux isn’t that fast so it will have to use a choice scarf to use final gambit effectively, but then you might as well use victini as your final gambit user since its faster, got more HP and has U turn. You can probably find some people who can find some extremely niche uses for final gambit, but don’t expect it to be a great option for mollux.

Also, I made some serious changes to my movelists, including a complete revamp of the Egg Move Lists and a couple touch ups on the TM list and Level up Moves. I also completely removed the tutoring idea because I liked it less and less the more I thought about it. There were a few important VGM changes including the removal of Hurricane and calm mind and the addition of recover.

Before I didn’t want to give Mollux recover because I thought it would make mollux to powerful in the rain with dry skin, lefties, and recover, but then I remembered wny Fire/ Poison is a bad typing (earthquake weak) so I gave it recover. I took out Calm Mind mainly because I got too worried about Mollux becoming a sweeper.

I’ll be adding egg move illegalities soon. Please check out the changes here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=19

Or go directly to the original post (#19). I appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks!

uwnim · Jun 6th, 2012, 9:47:41 PM

Bold indicates STAB, * repeated, ~ VGM.

Total Moves 60/33

Level Up 16/5

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TMs 36(34)/22

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Egg Moves 10/6
Bug/Water 1

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Legal Combinations

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Banryu · Jun 6th, 2012, 10:26:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat forestflamerunner

Banryu I don’t Feel like Mollux would be a great user of Final Gambit. When you use Final gambit, you want to be faster than your opponent so that you don’t get slammed with a powerful attack right before using final gambit so as to keep your HP at a maximum. Mollux isn’t that fast so it will have to use a choice scarf to use final gambit effectively, but then you might as well use victini as your final gambit user since its faster, got more HP and has U turn. You can probably find some people who can find some extremely niche uses for final gambit, but don’t expect it to be a great option for mollux.

Yeah, you're right. There's really no reason to use Final Gambit on Mollux when Victini does it better, and as such, I feel that Final Gambit should only be added if movepool creators feel it is flavorfully relevant (personally, I don't). As for your movepool changes, FFR, the level-up and egg moves look fine to me for the most part, though I don't feel like there's much of a flavor basis nor competitive merit for including Wish (much like Final Gambit xP). Also, I'll bring up again what people have been pestering you about regarding level 6 Selfdestruct. You know what I'm talking about... Beyond that, I don't see any moves that I feel shouldn't be there. Are you making any record of the noteworthy discluded moves in your movepool? Might not be a bad idea.

With that resolved (for myself), my latest updates include removing Final Gambit, adding Charge Beam for flavor reasons mainly, and reinstating Work Up also for flavor, relatively harmless as it is.

My attention now turns to Power Gem and Stealth Rock.
For Power Gem, there's nothing worrisome competitively-speaking whether it is present in movepools or not (Hidden Power has equal power to it, so it basically just frees up a slot for other Hidden Powers that will not likely be used when Recover/Fire STAB/Electric move are also used). My main concern with Power Gem is for flavor. How does Power Gem contribute to flavor? I don't really think that it does. A lot of people are placing Mollux in the Mineral egg group, which while less fitting than others, I can understand, because the lava lamp shell is probably interpreted as some sort of conical mini-volcano (which would serve to explain Lava Plume and Eruption a bit). Even taking that into account, however, I can't really see Mollux using Power Gem like I can with other flavor moves (like Signal Beam). In its animation, Power Gem sends out faceted waves of light, almost like a rock-cutter or something, from some sort of rock or mineral-like appendage on its body. Are the metallic components of Mollux's lava lamp enough to warrant flavorful usage of Power Gem? I'm not convinced that they are. I'm probably overthinking it, though.

For Stealth Rock, my concerns are competitive. Toxic Spikes I don't mind, given that they can be circumvented with relative ease and take a while to set, but the SR mindset is quick'n'easy and forget it was even on his set after using it, and I don't feel it contributes anything to his role as a pivot. There's the argument that Heatran does this better so it's harmless, but since many breeding combinations allow it alongside Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, I worry that the inclusion of Stealth Rock distracts from the concept, like many of us agree that Calm Mind does. I see Stealth Rock as a bridge of sorts that would allow Mollux to cross the line from bulky offensive pivot to bulky offensive support, and that removing it would keep Mollux where we want him to be. Again though, I might be worrying for nothing. Thoughts on this?

ZhengTann · Jun 6th, 2012, 11:21:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Banryu

...
For Stealth Rock, my concerns are competitive. Toxic Spikes I don't mind, given that they can be circumvented with relative ease and take a while to set, but the SR mindset is quick'n'easy and forget it was even on his set after using it, and I don't feel it contributes anything to his role as a pivot. There's the argument that Heatran does this better so it's harmless, but since many breeding combinations allow it alongside Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, I worry that the inclusion of Stealth Rock distracts from the concept, like many of us agree that Calm Mind does. I see Stealth Rock as a bridge of sorts that would allow Mollux to cross the line from bulky offensive pivot to bulky offensive support, and that removing it would keep Mollux where we want him to be. Again though, I might be worrying for nothing. Thoughts on this?

Deck has stated in his OP that Mollux can run basic support as a side job, so I suppose Stealth Rock wouldn't be booted off as a distraction immediately. We've all seen its statspread - it would be a liability to make a pure or even half support role out of Mollux, moveset-wise. So yeah, I included Stealth Rocks in mine (heck, I'd be giving Mollux a quasi-Forretress set), but its your call, nevertheless.

P.S. I disagree with you about Calm Mind, but then, without these disagreements, movepools would end up exactly the same.

Banryu · Jun 7th, 2012, 1:49:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ZhengTann

Deck has stated in his OP that Mollux can run basic support as a side job, so I suppose Stealth Rock wouldn't be booted off as a distraction immediately. We've all seen its statspread - it would be a liability to make a pure or even half support role out of Mollux, moveset-wise. So yeah, I included Stealth Rocks in mine (heck, I'd be giving Mollux a quasi-Forretress set), but its your call, nevertheless.

It would be a liability coverage-wise to give Mollux 2-3 support moves on a single set (like say, Lava Plume, SR, TSpikes, Rapid Spin-- I'm assuming this is the 'quasi-Forretress'). Granted, it IS a bit of a liability not being able to attack everything with that enormous sp.atk. stat, I'll give you that... I think I see your point, however, I'm still not fully convinced. I'll have to work it out for myself though I suppose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ZhengTann

I disagree with you about Calm Mind, but then, without these disagreements, movepools would end up exactly the same.

Why? What's your reasoning for thinking that CM is okay to have on Mollux? Explain. (I'm not questioning your decision, understand, just trying to look at all sides on the issue.)

**Korski** · Jun 7th, 2012, 2:50:44 PM

Okay I've finalized my submission in case of sudden thread closing, but I can still tweak it around a bit if someone has a good suggestion. While looking around at the other movepools, I see some interesting quasi-competitive differences. The slate choices and poll should be interesting. Good luck to all submitters!

Banryu · Jun 7th, 2012, 4:15:16 PM

Dragon Tail, huh Korski? That's pretty controversial, considering it was never discussed... Though I suppose Roar and Whirlwind were... still, odd that you chose that over at least Whirlwind, flavorfully unfitting as all three are. I notice you chose to omit Haze and Clear Smog as well, which seem more fitting to me... It's just my opinion, but I don't feel that hazard-shuffling should be Mollux's primary role. The merits of preventing Dragon-types from setting up are valid concerns, though I WILL say that the main reason it is flavorfully incorrect isn't for the lack of a tail, necessarily, but for the fact that Mollux isn't reptilian. Not dragon, even, but reptilian. The commonality between all Pokemon who receive Dragon Tail (with the debatable exception of Slowking, who potentially might be) is that they are reptilian in design, physiology, or nature, which Mollux is almost certainly not and thus is not a good recipient for the move. If you feel such a phazing move should absolutely be included, why not Circle Throw? It certainly makes more flavor sense than Dragon Tail.

A minor nitpick would be to note that Whirlpool is an HM from HG/SS, and HMs are non-transferable to B/W... There are still a few mons that learn Whirlpool in Gen 5 but the list isn't nearly that extensive.

Thanks and good luck to you as well.
EDIT: I will say that I appreciate your interpretation on the whole lava lamp/pacifism thing, that's an interesting take... My own was a much more literal take on the abilities of the cone snail and lava lamp... so it's nice to see people thinking deeper like that. ~__~

~~Made some final edits to my own movepool. I realized that all TM-learning Pokemon get Facade, so I've added that.~~

EDIT: -sigh- ~~Well, I'm done.~~ I'm not terribly proud of myself, but I've gone and added some moves I was intent on discluding, (among them Flame Charge, Calm Mind, and Acid Armor) in an effort to make my movepool more appealing to everyone. =___= Hurricane, Power Gem, Wish, Trick, Confuse Ray, and Magnet Rise were among the most noteworthy moves that I decided to disclude, and I'm quite certain about them, at least. I might tweak it a bit more but overall I think it's satisfactory.

Screw it, I'm not done, Korski's right my egg moves are still swollen. >___<

zyrefredric · Jun 7th, 2012, 7:43:02 PM

Final Submission: 59 moves, 32 VGMs (designed to be well below the allowable 75/40 move limit)

Level Up moves: 17 moves, 9 VGMs

TM moves: 36 moves, 21 VGMs

Egg moves (Water 1): 6 moves, 2 VGMs

allowed moves not included in this submission

Nyktos · Jun 7th, 2012, 9:46:48 PM

My submission too, is now officially "final". The last change I made was to remove Calm Mind which I have decided is largely unnecessary and not really fitting for Mollux either competitively or flavourfully. To make up for it, I added Thunder Wave which I've been mentally flip-flopping about the whole time.

ZhengTann · Jun 8th, 2012, 12:22:58 AM

@ Banryu - My reasons for Calm Mind (along with other boosting moves) are in the competitive reasoning part here, which I suppose is now counted as an almost final submission - for now. If you'd rather not risk the wall of words, in summary it allows Mollux to be bulky rather than pivot. Its not necessarily a deviation from the concept, as I've said about Stealth Rocks - it simply gives Mollux an extra option, kind of like Haxorus being a set-up sweeper even though Salamence is faster.

Banryu · Jun 8th, 2012, 1:57:46 AM

Hmm, I think I see your point, Zheng, though I disagree. Regardless, though, I sold my soul to the crowd to have CM in my own movepool, so that those who want it can have it... I don't personally believe it will be very effective (except perhaps in very late-game scenarios, and even then it lacks the speed), so in that light, including it does little harm in my mind.

I will say that reading Korski's explanation of his submission has certainly changed my mind about Stealth Rock, though. I may have been looking at that in the wrong light...

**Korski** · Jun 8th, 2012, 3:15:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Banryu

Dragon Tail, huh Korski? That's pretty controversial, considering it was never discussed... Though I suppose Roar and Whirlwind were... still, odd that you chose that over at least Whirlwind, flavorfully unfitting as all three are. I notice you chose to omit Haze and Clear Smog as well, which seem more fitting to me... It's just my opinion, but I don't feel that hazard-shuffling should be Mollux's primary role. The merits of preventing Dragon-types from setting up are valid concerns, though I WILL say that the main reason it is flavorfully incorrect isn't for the lack of a tail, necessarily, but for the fact that Mollux isn't reptilian. Not dragon, even, but reptilian. The commonality between all Pokemon who receive Dragon Tail (with the debatable exception of Slowking, who potentially might be) is that they are reptilian in design, physiology, or nature, which Mollux is almost certainly not and thus is not a good recipient for the move. If you feel such a phazing move should absolutely be included, why not Circle Throw? It certainly makes more flavor sense than Dragon Tail.

A minor nitpick would be to note that Whirlpool is an HM from HG/SS, and HMs are non-transferable to B/W... There are still a few mons that learn Whirlpool in Gen 5 but the list isn't nearly that extensive.

I hope someone will let me know before the thread closes if Dragon Tail is in fact Disallowed for not being discussed specifically. I figured that since Roar and Whirlwind were allowed then phazing moves were on the table, and I really do think Mollux could make use of it, as opposed to Clear Smog and Haze, which lack the shuffling effect that makes Phaze > Haze. The flavor isn't so bad (I expanded my post to include more reasoning for the move), certainly not enough to force it out of the movepool, imo.

Circle Throw is a nifty thought, although if I added it to my Egg pool it would be illegal with all other hazard moves (lol), and if I added it to the Level-Up list it would mess up the flavor of it. Dragon Tail is easy to access in the TM list and has no immunities to worry about; even doing super-effective damage on Dragons like Lati@s on the switch-in can net around 17-20% damage (negative nature, 0 EVs) before factoring in hazards, so it's kind of like Mollux has a little weapon to use against those Dragons that threaten to set up, which is fine because they're not on the Threat List.

Thanks for the catch on Whirlpool! It gave me a chance to go back and iron out the move legalities so they're accurate, something which I was too lazy to do thoroughly before. Whirlpool does have many fewer legalities than I originally claimed, and a few other illegalities popped up, like no more Tickle + Trick, but nothing competitively significant was changed, unless you really wanted to try out Acid Spray + Whirlpool. Thanks for the feedback!

I wonder, Banryu, if you need all those Egg moves. I can't find any Pokemon with 18 breedable moves (the closest I got was Swampert with 15 can anyone do better?), and that number just looks high to begin with. I also think a little more insight into your thought process and/or move selection in your post will give voters a better grasp on how to picture your movepool working for the CAP to achieve success. For instance, you have Thunder only in the Egg list, illegal with everything else to avoid having Mollux try for too many things at once, yet you still have all of Stealth Rock + Toxic Spikes + Rapid Spin together from Forretress. You may want to explain what's so dangerous about Thunder that it can't be available as a TM, and maybe just beef up reasonings here or there, to give your submission more competitive evidence to back it up. Also, your "Legal Breeding Combos" section doesn't mention Accupressure, Disable, Endeavor, Ingrain, Magic Coat, Stockpile, Swallow, or Whirlpool at all. It does mention Power Gem and Morning Sun, which aren't in your Egg pool. I just think you need to update that section since it looks like you've edited your original list. I hope that's helpful feedback. Good first movepool submission!

nyttyn · Jun 8th, 2012, 5:47:20 AM

Calm mind will be very effective once its weaknesses are removed from play. See: CroCune. It'll be a tad situational, but don't count calm mind out of the running just yet. Anyways, finished my movepool.

I beseech everyone to consider giving this thing any moves on the movepool you create freely, as Mollux does not need unnecessary restrictions. For the love of Arceus we've been moderate as fuck, if we leave it without as many options as possible it will not be able to have a presence in OU.

forestflamerunner · Jun 8th, 2012, 6:56:09 AM

Yeah, I am going to Finalize my movepool now. I don't see to many other changes I want to make. I added in a Egg move illegalities list so that is always nice. I really want to address a concern many people have with my movepool: selfdestruct at level six. I know that level six is really early to learn a move with that much power, but it is not without precedent. Pineco also learns it at level 6 and its not like I'm slapping on Selfdestruct for the hell of it. I articulated a pretty good reason of why Mollux learns Selfdestruct at level six and how that move helps shape the rest of Mollux's level up movepool. SelfDestruct isn't really giving mollux a super powerful offensive option early on either given mollux's abysmal attack stat. In fact, sludge, which mollux learns two moves later, would be more powerful against most opponents than selfdestruct would be. So that's all I have to say about that

Seven Eagles · Jun 8th, 2012, 6:32:56 PM

I really don't understand why everyone's hellbent on making Mollux suck. He needs all the help he can get, why is everyone putting an incredible amount of restrictions on him?

Think about it this way: Serperior is a pokemon who has a move slightly less powerful than Hyper Beam, but instead of having to recharge, it has a secondary effect of doubling in power every turn it's used, and it still isn't in DW OU (i barely ever see people use it). Whimsicott is Whimsicott and it's not in OU. This generation's had a ridiculous amount of power creep. Mollux needs an incredible movepool to make up for being incredibly subpar in every other area (except for being cute).

I'm not submitting a movepool because mine would probably get ripped apart and I don't really know what I'm doing, but I know well enough to see that Mollux needs help if you guys want it to not get completely screwed over.

Jun 6th, 2012, 1:29:56 PM	#52
Mari Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 164 Aachen, Germany	Did some changes to my movepool you can see here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=23 Removed Moves: -Thunderwave (since it has already Toxic, Toxic Spikes and Will-O-Wisp) -Coil (it has already Stockpile to increase its Def and it doesn't really need the +Acc of Coil) -Pain Split (Recover and Rest remain) -Psych Up (see below) -Wring Out (needed some space in the level-up movepool) New: -Growth (Calm Mind and Charge Beam are enough) Added Moves: -Rapid Spin (Mollux is a very nice Spinner. Its Stealth Rock damage is healed in one turn, so it has nearly unlimited switch-ins and can abuse its pivot capabilities most beneficial.) -Sleep Talk (Sleep Talk seems to be a good option for Mollux. You will see this in my sample movesets below) -Power Swap (Replacement for Psych Up - enables Mollux to push its Overheat Special Attack drop onto its opponent) -Magic Coat (Allows Mollux to be a reasonable lead - bouncing Taunt and Stealth Rock) New: -Disable (to stop Choice item users) Example movesets: ... Support / Lead Mollux @ Balloon/Leftovers Trait: Dry Skin/Illuminate EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Magic Coat/Will-O-Wisp - Rapid Spin/Will-O-Wisp/Toxic Spikes/Disable - Light Screen/Safeguard - Memento/Final Gambit/Recycle/Knock-off It's your Choice Mollux @ Choice Specs Trait: Dry Skin EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature - Hidden Power {Ground} - Thunder - Water Pulse - Sludge Wave Balanced Mollux @ Leftovers Trait: Dry Skin EVs: 212 HP / 252 SAtk / 44 SDef Calm Nature - Overheat - Power Swap - Substitute/Recover - Water Pulse/Hidden Power {Grass} Rainstall Trapper Mollux @ Leftovers Trait: Dry Skin EVs: 212 HP / 172 Def / 124 SDef Calm Nature - Toxic - Whirlpool - Venoshock - Substitute/Protect Sun Booster Mollux @ Lum Berry/Leftovers Trait: Illuminate EVs: 252 HP / 120 SpAtk / 128 Spd Modest Nature - Calm Mind - Flamethrower - Flame Charge - Solar Beam/Hidden Power {Ground} Sleep Talk Mollux @ Leftovers Trait: Dry Skin EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SDef Bold Nature - Rest - Sleep Talk - Charge Beam - Sludge Wave __________________ Challenge Cup 1 vs 1 - Torchic vs Arceus-Normal Challenge Cup - Trapinch VGC 2013 - 3-Turn-Win Balanced Hackmons - Arceus Home Run Challenge Cup 1 vs 1 - Epic: Magikarp vs. Zapdos Feel the power of Sub Magnezone Last edited by Mari; Jun 6th, 2012 at 6:31:32 PM. Reason: Replaced Growth by Disable

Jun 6th, 2012, 4:14:39 PM	#56
Cretacerus Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 86 Munich	Here's my idea for Mollux's movepool. As you will see, i tried to integrate various flavour elements and tools for diverse gameplay options (a particular focus on sun Mollux), while keeping the movepool as clear and comprehensible as possible. I hope you don't let the long text and unpracticed tongue of a foreign speaker discourage you :D Total: 35/65 VGA (2 Repeats + 1 Pair of equivalents) Level-Up: 8/16 VGA ... --- Growth --- Constrict 05 Poison Sting 10 Flash 14 Ember 19 Mudshot 24 Confuse Ray 28 Acid Spray 33 Whirlpool 38 Lava Plume 42 Stockpile ---Swallow ---Spit Up 47 Sludge Bomb 52 Morning Sun 60 Eruption The Level-Up-Movepool begins with a rather unconventional move in Growth. The reason I chose it over something like Withdraw is the fact that i absolutely wanted to place it somewhere in Mollux's movepool, and it fits here rather well. Growth is Mollux's only boosting move, and helps to compensate the lack of recovery in sun with more offensive presence. As Mollux hatches, it possesses the moves Growth and Constrict. They support the picture of the baby snail acting very passiv, focusing on growing and using its tentacles rather haphazardly when encountering a foe. In lv 5 then Mollux learns Poison Sting, which means, he now adapts to the more active lifestyle of a cone snail. From lv 10 on the attacks become more and more based on the lava lamp, beginning with the rather harmless Flash and Confuse Ray and brought to a final with the mighty Eruption at lv 60. Learning Eruption through leveling up gives sun sets an easier time and doesn't force him into the field group. Within all those power attacks there are occasionally some flavor moves such as Mudshot and Whirlpool (gives it the style of the sea monster caryptis, and adds some water to the movepool), and most outstanding: the three moves Stockpile, Swallow and Spit Up, all learned in lv 42. This three moves fit the theme so well, i had to include them to the Level-Up-Movepool: Stockpile on Mollux combines the gathering of energie (just like Lanturn) with the mixture of diverse toxics (Swalot). Swallow goes hand in hand with Stockpile, and the cone snail demonstrates it exemplary, and Spit Up was added to complete the trio. One last move that deserves a mention on the Level-Up-Movepool is Morning Sun: It's hard to justify its presence purely under flavor aspects, and i'll admit it's there because of competitive reasons (again for giving sun sets a little advantage over rain abusers), but Morning Sun actually does a job in associating warmth and colourfulness with Mollux. TM / HM: 22/36 VGA ... TM06 Toxic TM09 Venoshock TM10 Hidden Power TM11 Sunny Day TM15 Hyper Beam TM16 Light Screen TM17 Protect TM18 Rain Dance TM21 Frustration TM22 SolarBeam TM24 Thunderbolt TM25 Thunder TM27 Return TM32 Double Team TM34 Sludge Wave TM35 Flamethrower TM36 Sludge Bomb TM38 Fire Blast TM42 Facade TM43 Flame Charge TM44 Rest TM45 Attract TM48 Round TM50 Overheat TM57 Charge Beam TM59 Incinerate TM61 Will-O-Wisp TM64 Explosion TM68 Giga Impact TM70 Flash TM73 Thunder Wave TM74 Gyro Ball TM76 Struggle Bug TM84 Poison Jab TM87 Swagger TM90 Substitute VM06 Dive Out of the TMs, there are three which i think are worth a closer look, because of the noticable effect they would have on Mollux's performance: --Calm Mind I decided to exclude it from Mollux's learnset, because he already has a comparatively high special attack for the role he should fulfill and because of how easy he can get free turns. It should also be noted, that Calm Mind (being a TM move) would be available on any set including those with Recover. As for boosting his special attack, Growth and Charge Beam should really be the only options he gets. (I feel the +2 boost of Growth in sun is tolerable because Mollux's role on sun teams is different) --Light Screen Light Screen is in the TM list, because Mollux should be able to support his team, and after not getting Stealth Rock or Heal Bell (and Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin being restricted due to being Egg Moves), i felt Light Screen wouldn't be that harmful. Furthermore, Mollux was clearly stated as a pokemon which should be able to boost its special defense, and Light Screen matches this, as it can be given to every set without restrictions. With the special defense boost, Mollux will have an easier time dealing with strong rain sweepers such as Tornadus, while the mostly physical moves (Earthquake) of his counters remain uneffected. As Mollux with Light Screen would be most likely supportive and therefore forgo coverage moves, Earth Power users such as Heatran and Gastrodon shouldn't have a hard time either. --Thunder Wave Thunder Wave is virtually obligatory for flavour reasons, because of the lava lamp's relation to electricity and Mollux's ability to learn Thunder, Thunderbolt and Charge Beam through TM. It's competitive effects also shouldn't be overestimated, because it can only hit counters on the switch, and poison and burn are generally more useful status considering Mollux's playstyle. Egg Moves (Amorpheus + Water1): 6/9 VGA ... Fissure (Stunfisk) Sweet Kiss (Poliwag Gen3) Signal Beam (Octillery, ...) Switcheroo (Floatzel) Clear Smog (Weezing) Octazooka (Octillery) Recover (Gastrodon) Rapid Spin (Blastoise) Toxic Spikes (Omastar) --The first three moves where added purely for flavour reasons: Fissure refers to the ability of a cone snail to create a giant hole and let things (preferable fish) disappear in it forever, Sweet Kiss is a standart move for accentuating a pokemon's cuteness and fits Mollux's mouthform surprisingly well, Signal Beam is based on the blinding colourfulness of a lava lamp (Camouflague was actually intended for this purpose, but it could have endangered the typing concept). --Then we have three moves, which where placed here to give Mollux more competitive options. Switcheroo lets Mollux make use of choice items, which is useful mainly for sun abusers, as rain sets can't fully take advantage of the fire stab and the rain boosted Octazooka is illegal with Switcheroo. Switcheroo over Trick, because it sounds cuter and gives Mollux something mischievous (he strikes faster than the eye can follow), both of with suits him rather well. Clear Smog is another important move for Mollux, as you don't want the pokemon you actually wall to set up on you. Clear Smog is also part of the "take advantage of youre typing"-theme, and therefore i consider to eventually put it into his Level-Up moves. Having to give up the other egg moves for it just puts this Clear Smog in a too bad position... Octazooka, a hugly controversial move: it was certain, that, if it was included, this had to be an egg move, not only because of the flavor aspect of it being a signature move, but because the unrestricted access to it would really mess up Mollux's role in the metagame. Therefore Mollux was put in the Water1 egg group. The exclusivity of Octazooka from the other competitive egg moves (including and especially the following three) helps to balance Octazooka's competitiveness to a tolerable amount. --Finally Mollux's three most important egg moves: Conveniantly, non of these moves are compatible with the other, so Mollux is restricted to a single of these. Recover is a very good move on Mollux and gives it a reliable of healing itself, which even sun sets could appreciate enough to use it over Morning Sun, and in rain (combined with dry skin and potentially Light Screen) it allows him to wall almost any rain team member. Toxic Spikes: It's his only form of entry hazard, as this shoulnd't be his primary playstyle. Still, Toxic Spikes allows Mollux to successfully abuse status and maybe even combine it with a great stab in Venoshock. Rapid Spin is the third option Mollux has here. He himself might not be the best spinner, but his ability to masterfully handle common spinblockers certainly makes it worth a consideration. Note that sets running Toxic Spikes or Rapid Spin can still run the Level-Up-Move Morning Sun as recovery if they want to support their team over a longer period. Possible Combinations Clear Smog + Recover (Gastrodon) Clear Smog + Signal Beam (Horsea) Signal Beam + Octazooka (Octillery) Signal Beam + Rapid Spin (Blastoise) As this is my first submission, im aware that there might be certain mistakes in there, so i would greatly appreciate, if you guys informed me when you come across anything strange. EDIT: This is now my Final Submission __________________ O temporas, o mores! Last edited by Cretacerus; Jun 10th, 2012 at 12:38:05 PM.

Jun 6th, 2012, 4:31:34 PM	#57
Deck Knight Jigen Makkoto Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,832 Massachusetts	Just leaving a note here that I have been monitoring the thread, it's just this is an insanely busy week for me. It's probably not going to let up until Sunday, sadly, but I'll try to do what needs to be done before then. __________________ [17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me? [17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner [17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol [17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either [17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages [17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod. [17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal. [17:57] <Birkal> >:\|

Jun 6th, 2012, 9:13:50 PM	#61
forestflamerunner Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 283	Banryu I don’t Feel like Mollux would be a great user of Final Gambit. When you use Final gambit, you want to be faster than your opponent so that you don’t get slammed with a powerful attack right before using final gambit so as to keep your HP at a maximum. Mollux isn’t that fast so it will have to use a choice scarf to use final gambit effectively, but then you might as well use victini as your final gambit user since its faster, got more HP and has U turn. You can probably find some people who can find some extremely niche uses for final gambit, but don’t expect it to be a great option for mollux. Also, I made some serious changes to my movelists, including a complete revamp of the Egg Move Lists and a couple touch ups on the TM list and Level up Moves. I also completely removed the tutoring idea because I liked it less and less the more I thought about it. There were a few important VGM changes including the removal of Hurricane and calm mind and the addition of recover. Before I didn’t want to give Mollux recover because I thought it would make mollux to powerful in the rain with dry skin, lefties, and recover, but then I remembered wny Fire/ Poison is a bad typing (earthquake weak) so I gave it recover. I took out Calm Mind mainly because I got too worried about Mollux becoming a sweeper. I’ll be adding egg move illegalities soon. Please check out the changes here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=19 Or go directly to the original post (#19). I appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks! __________________ Did You Stand Too Close To The Fire?

Jun 6th, 2012, 9:47:41 PM	#62
uwnim Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 159 Florida	Final Submission Bold indicates STAB, * repeated, ~ VGM. Total Moves 60/33 Level Up 16/5 ... 01 Flash 01 Withdraw 01 Constrict 6 Poison Sting 11 Tickle 16 Bide 21 Wrap 26 Soak 31 Acid 36 Acid Armor~ 41 Gastro Acid 46 Lava Plume~ 51 Acid Spray~ 56 Moonlight~ 61-Explosion 61-Eruption~ Soak is a level up move so it can be used with Rapid Spin without having Rapid Spin be usable with everything. I chose Moonlight over Morning Sun because Mollux doesn't seem to like sun much, so Moonlight fit a bit better despite having a poorer relationship with the typing. Explosion and Eruption are learned at the same level because I imagine them to work pretty much the same way for Mollux except that with Eruption Mollux opens its cap and with Explosion it doesn't causing pressure to build up until it explodes. TMs 36(34)/22 ... 04 Calm Mind~ 06 Toxic~ 09 Venoshock 10 Hidden Power~ 11 Sunny Day 15 Hyper Beam 16 Light Screen~ 17 Protect~ 18 Rain Dance~ 21 Frustration~ 22 SolarBeam 24 Thunderbolt~ 25 Thunder~ 27 Return~ (Same VGM as Frustration) 28 Dig 32 Double Team 34 Sludge Wave~ 35 Flamethrower~ 36 Sludge Bomb~ 38 Fire Blast~ 42 Facade~ 43 Flame Charge~ 44 Rest~ 45 Attract 48 Round 50 Overheat~ 59 Incinerate 61 Will-O-Wisp~ 64 Explosion* 66 Payback~ 68 Giga Impact 70 Flash* 73 Thunder Wave~ 83 Work Up~ 87 Swagger 90 Substitute~ Egg Moves 10/6 Bug/Water 1 ... Aqua Ring Encore~ Endure Mud Slap Octazooka Rapid Spin~ Recover~ Signal Beam~ Stealth Rock~ Toxic Spikes~ I chose to use Bug/Water 1 as my egg groups because I felt Mollux should be able to breed with Shuckle and Shelmet and it should be in one of the Water groups. Mollux could belong to either Water 1 or Water 3 flavor wise, so I decided based on the egg moves I wanted. Aqua Ring allows Mollux to recover up to 25% of its max HP per turn. Octazooka and Signal Beam provide additional coverage without overshadowing its STABs. Octazooka is not compatible with most of the egg moves which will limit its use and is really only usable in the Rain. Signal Beam is slightly stronger than a resisted Flamethrower(no rain) or Sludge Wave and a super effective Signal Beam is weaker than a neutral Fire Blast outside of Rain. Legal Combinations ... Endure is legal with everything, so it is not listed. Aqua Ring + Encore + Mud Slap + Signal Beam Walrein Aqua Ring + Mud Slap + Rapid Spin + Signal Beam Blastoise Aqua Ring + Mud Slap + Recover + Stealth Rock Corsola Encore + Mud Slap + Recover Accelgor Encore + Mud Slap + Stealth Rock Shuckle Mud Slap + Octazooka + Signal Beam Octillery Mud Slap + Stealth Rock + Toxic Spikes Omastar Mud Slap + Rapid Spin + Stealth Rocks Kabutops Rapid Spin + Signal Beam + Stealth Rock + Toxic Spikes Forretress Last edited by uwnim; Jun 9th, 2012 at 5:23:00 PM.

Jun 6th, 2012, 2:14:05 PM	#53
srk1214 Supreme Master of Trivia Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 807	Captivate is a TM in 4th gen only.

Jun 7th, 2012, 2:50:44 PM	#66
Korski Distilled, 80 proof Moderator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,003 Minneapolis	Okay I've finalized my submission in case of sudden thread closing, but I can still tweak it around a bit if someone has a good suggestion. While looking around at the other movepools, I see some interesting quasi-competitive differences. The slate choices and poll should be interesting. Good luck to all submitters! __________________ "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not." - John Lennon

Jun 7th, 2012, 4:15:16 PM	#67
Banryu Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,506	Dragon Tail, huh Korski? That's pretty controversial, considering it was never discussed... Though I suppose Roar and Whirlwind were... still, odd that you chose that over at least Whirlwind, flavorfully unfitting as all three are. I notice you chose to omit Haze and Clear Smog as well, which seem more fitting to me... It's just my opinion, but I don't feel that hazard-shuffling should be Mollux's primary role. The merits of preventing Dragon-types from setting up are valid concerns, though I WILL say that the main reason it is flavorfully incorrect isn't for the lack of a tail, necessarily, but for the fact that Mollux isn't reptilian. Not dragon, even, but reptilian. The commonality between all Pokemon who receive Dragon Tail (with the debatable exception of Slowking, who potentially might be) is that they are reptilian in design, physiology, or nature, which Mollux is almost certainly not and thus is not a good recipient for the move. If you feel such a phazing move should absolutely be included, why not Circle Throw? It certainly makes more flavor sense than Dragon Tail. A minor nitpick would be to note that Whirlpool is an HM from HG/SS, and HMs are non-transferable to B/W... There are still a few mons that learn Whirlpool in Gen 5 but the list isn't nearly that extensive. Thanks and good luck to you as well. EDIT: I will say that I appreciate your interpretation on the whole lava lamp/pacifism thing, that's an interesting take... My own was a much more literal take on the abilities of the cone snail and lava lamp... so it's nice to see people thinking deeper like that. ~__~ ~~Made some final edits to my own movepool. I realized that all TM-learning Pokemon get Facade, so I've added that.~~ EDIT: -sigh- ~~Well, I'm done.~~ I'm not terribly proud of myself, but I've gone and added some moves I was intent on discluding, (among them Flame Charge, Calm Mind, and Acid Armor) in an effort to make my movepool more appealing to everyone. =___= Hurricane, Power Gem, Wish, Trick, Confuse Ray, and Magnet Rise were among the most noteworthy moves that I decided to disclude, and I'm quite certain about them, at least. I might tweak it a bit more but overall I think it's satisfactory. Screw it, I'm not done, Korski's right my egg moves are still swollen. >___< __________________ ~ -=ASB Trainer Profile=- ~ Winning like Charlie Sheen Last edited by Banryu; Jun 8th, 2012 at 1:14:31 PM.

Jun 7th, 2012, 7:43:02 PM	#68
zyrefredric Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 522 Mandaue City, Philippines	Final Submission: 59 moves, 32 VGMs (designed to be well below the allowable 75/40 move limit) Level Up moves: 17 moves, 9 VGMs 01 - Constrict 01 - Ember 01 - Charm 01 - Fire Spin 05 - Constrict 10 - Ember 14 - Clear Smog 19 - Stockpile 23 - Lava Plume 28 - Gastro Acid 32 - Switcheroo 37 - Skill Swap 38 - Heat Wave 44 - Acid Spray 52 - Recover 59 - Toxic Spikes 67 - Eruption The levels for this submission is based from Magcargo's level-up list. It's a mix of Normal, Poison and Fire moves. TM moves: 36 moves, 21 VGMs TM06 - Toxic TM09 - Venoshock TM10 - Hidden Power TM11 - Sunny Day TM15 - Hyper Beam TM16 - Light Screen TM17 - Protect TM18 - Rain Dance TM21 - Frustration TM22 - Solarbeam TM24 - Thunderbolt TM25 - Thunder TM27 - Return TM32 - Double Team TM34 - Sludge Wave TM35 - Flamethrower TM36 - Sludge Bomb TM38 - Fire Blast TM42 - Facade TM43 - Flame Charge TM44 - Rest TM45 - Attract TM46 - Thief TM48 - Round TM49 - Echoed Voice TM50 - Overheat TM57 - Charge Beam TM59 - Incinerate TM61 - Will-O-Wisp TM66 - Payback TM68 - Giga Impact TM70 - Flash TM73 - Thunder Wave TM84 - Poison Jab TM87 - Swagger TM90 - Substitute Basically it's the required TM list, with the addition of Thunder Wave, Charge Beam, Thunderbolt and Thunder, alluding to the electrical nature of its lava lamp. Egg moves (Water 1): 6 moves, 2 VGMs Aqua Ring Ingrain Knock Off Octazooka Soak Whirlpool And here we have the egg moves, and if you've noticed, these are mostly water moves, to signify the aquatic nature of Mollux's cone snail design. allowed moves not included in this submission Hurricane same set exclusive with Thunder Final Gambit Flare Blitz Gunk Shot Mud Shot Power Gem Power Whip Razor Shell Signal Beam Waterfall Accupressure Acid Armor / Iron Defense Amnesia Calm Mind Charge Coil Disable Encore Endure Fake Tears / Metal Sound Foresight Growth Haze Heal Bell Magic Coat Magnet Rise Morning Sun / Moonlight Pain Split Rapid Spin Recycle Roar Role Play Sleep Talk Snatch Stealth Rock Whirlwind Wish Work Up __________________ Want to PLAY a brand new metagame? Visit this Equal BST Metagame thread and tell us what you think. Ever tried A Monotype Take on the OU Metagame? Visit the thread and share your experience. Last edited by zyrefredric; Jun 10th, 2012 at 7:38:30 PM.

Jun 7th, 2012, 9:46:48 PM	#69
Nyktos Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 314 Looking For You	My submission too, is now officially "final". The last change I made was to remove Calm Mind which I have decided is largely unnecessary and not really fitting for Mollux either competitively or flavourfully. To make up for it, I added Thunder Wave which I've been mentally flip-flopping about the whole time.

Jun 8th, 2012, 12:22:58 AM	#70
ZhengTann Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 1,122 Malaysia, GMT +8	@ Banryu - My reasons for Calm Mind (along with other boosting moves) are in the competitive reasoning part here, which I suppose is now counted as an almost final submission - for now. If you'd rather not risk the wall of words, in summary it allows Mollux to be bulky rather than pivot. Its not necessarily a deviation from the concept, as I've said about Stealth Rocks - it simply gives Mollux an extra option, kind of like Haxorus being a set-up sweeper even though Salamence is faster. __________________ <Birkal> if pwnemon was my little brother, I would beat some sense into him <Birkal> and then take him out for tea and scones <Birkal> and then we'd talk ASB and grow facial hair together <Birkal> like proper brothers ASB Player \| ASB Ref

Jun 8th, 2012, 1:57:46 AM	#71
Banryu Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,506	Hmm, I think I see your point, Zheng, though I disagree. Regardless, though, I sold my soul to the crowd to have CM in my own movepool, so that those who want it can have it... I don't personally believe it will be very effective (except perhaps in very late-game scenarios, and even then it lacks the speed), so in that light, including it does little harm in my mind. I will say that reading Korski's explanation of his submission has certainly changed my mind about Stealth Rock, though. I may have been looking at that in the wrong light... __________________ ~ -=ASB Trainer Profile=- ~ Winning like Charlie Sheen

Jun 8th, 2012, 5:47:20 AM	#73
nyttyn Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 635	Calm mind will be very effective once its weaknesses are removed from play. See: CroCune. It'll be a tad situational, but don't count calm mind out of the running just yet. Anyways, finished my movepool. I beseech everyone to consider giving this thing any moves on the movepool you create freely, as Mollux does not need unnecessary restrictions. For the love of Arceus we've been moderate as fuck, if we leave it without as many options as possible it will not be able to have a presence in OU. __________________ http://i.imgur.com/M88s8ua.gif 21:41 Pwnemon it's true 21:41 Pwnemon he plays incredibly well 21:41 Pwnemon he makes do with a shitty team 21:41 Pwnemon i dont even want to know what would happen 21:41 Pwnemon if we gave nyttyn a good team

Jun 8th, 2012, 6:56:09 AM	#74
forestflamerunner Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 283	Yeah, I am going to Finalize my movepool now. I don't see to many other changes I want to make. I added in a Egg move illegalities list so that is always nice. I really want to address a concern many people have with my movepool: selfdestruct at level six. I know that level six is really early to learn a move with that much power, but it is not without precedent. Pineco also learns it at level 6 and its not like I'm slapping on Selfdestruct for the hell of it. I articulated a pretty good reason of why Mollux learns Selfdestruct at level six and how that move helps shape the rest of Mollux's level up movepool. SelfDestruct isn't really giving mollux a super powerful offensive option early on either given mollux's abysmal attack stat. In fact, sludge, which mollux learns two moves later, would be more powerful against most opponents than selfdestruct would be. So that's all I have to say about that __________________ Did You Stand Too Close To The Fire?

Jun 8th, 2012, 6:32:56 PM	#75
Seven Eagles Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 55	I really don't understand why everyone's hellbent on making Mollux suck. He needs all the help he can get, why is everyone putting an incredible amount of restrictions on him? Think about it this way: Serperior is a pokemon who has a move slightly less powerful than Hyper Beam, but instead of having to recharge, it has a secondary effect of doubling in power every turn it's used, and it still isn't in DW OU (i barely ever see people use it). Whimsicott is Whimsicott and it's not in OU. This generation's had a ridiculous amount of power creep. Mollux needs an incredible movepool to make up for being incredibly subpar in every other area (except for being cute). I'm not submitting a movepool because mine would probably get ripped apart and I don't really know what I'm doing, but I know well enough to see that Mollux needs help if you guys want it to not get completely screwed over.