Counter That Uber Pokémon! - Teambuilder [Team 1 Voting!]

[Mr.lol]

Lugia gets my vote. I don't want to pick an Arceus form just yet as that is probably the biggest wildcard that both teams have access to. I don't want to give it away to be some wall especially when the other team will probably just pick their next Pokemon to counter that Arceus. Using the Arceus at the end IMO is probably the best idea.

[Splendiferous]

Lugia can only wall groudon as it'd get destroyed by the zekrom and take a huge dent from ray. I've used double dance groudon+ray+zekrom in quite a few offensive teams and found grassceus to be a pain, hence why I suggested it.

[Steven Snype]

lugia

[trickroom]

found grassceus to be a pain, hence why I suggested it.

You cannot say Lugia gets destroyed and Grass Arceus annoys double dance Groudon+Rayquaza+Zekrom. Grass Arceus is roasted by Fire Blast and +1 Outrage tears off a huge chunk anyway. Good thing to note, Grass Arceus takes more damage from Rayquaza's Fire Blast than Lugia will take from Draco Meteor or +1 Outrage. Oh yeah, Poppy's Zekrom outspeeds no Speed Grass Arceus as well lol. +1 Outrage does 82% - 96.6%, so sand damage will kill you.

Voting for Lugia. Better mixed bulk, leftovers ( Hippowdon's Sand Stream will be less annoying ) and pressure. If Zekrom is so problematic just use a slightly faster Lugia spread ( 307 is minimum, and it allows you to outspeed Mixed DD Rayquaza initially as well ). Zekrom is not beating Lugia (assuming you use 307 Speed and above) one-on-one due to Reflect, Roost and Pressure. With a faster Reflect, Lugia can survive a +1 LO Bolt Strike ( Zekrom has 4 chances ) and Roost off the damage unless a paralysis/critical hit occurs.

[Furai]

More votes guys! Bring it on!

[Anikrahman1995]

Lugia. Btw team 2 just need to add Life Orb Deoxys-A to beat team 1 easily.

[Furai]

Voting results!

• Furai's Great Wall Lugia: 8
• Splendiferous's Support Grass Arceus: 0
• -Manaphy--'s Calm Mind Grass Arceus: 1
• jackm's Tailwind Giratina-O: 0

So Lugia is the next member in team 2. Team 2 is up to nominate again! This nomination should be an offensive Pokemon, not a wall, just noting. I'll think of something and post it as soon as possible!

[jackm]

Well, my last try was a failure, but hey, I'm just figuring out the logic of this game. Excuse me if this nomination has some sort of horrible blatant flaw that I've overlooked.

Anyways, I'd like to propose Deoxys-A.


Deoxys-A @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Hasty (+Spe, -Def)
EVs: 64 Atk/252 SAtk/188 Spe
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Punch

This set would make it extremely hard for team 1 to maintain momentum because of its sheer power. Psycho Boost OHKOs all three of the current members of team 1, and its presence alone would force team 1 to run either a dedicated special wall (restricting the amount of offensive pressure they can maintain) or a bulky psychic-type resist. The rest of the moves are basically allowing Deoxys-A to nuke whatever gets in its way. If team 1 decides to run a special wall, presumably Ho-oh, Lugia, or Chansey, it will always end up with problems. Ho-oh, rather obviously, is weak to sand teams, so it seems highly unlikely that it will be chosen. Lugia is 2HKOd by Shadow Ball, and Chansey is absolutely mauled by Superpower. When I say mauled, I mean "OHKOd by it at -1 and 62% chance of OHKO at -2". Yep, that's right. If something along the lines of Forretress is selected, which is fairly probable, Fire Punch mauls it. The speed EVs allow Deoxys-A to outspeed +1 Rayquaza and eliminate it; Special Attack is maximized and the rest is poured into Attack just 'cuz. It also outruns Mewtwo and deals a minimum of 89.4% with Shadow Ball, OHKOing with Stealth Rock or Spikes.

[Poppy]

zekrom walks all over lugia we can have like psystrike mewtwo now

[Furai]

Okay, here's my suggestion:


Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Grass Knot

Big bad Landorus. Landorus can take care of both Rayquaza and Groudon with Stone Edge and Grass Knot respectively (Grass Knot only tops at 68.29% unfortunately, but we have Lugia too), and can check Zekrom with its Ground typing. It's faster than Rayquaza and since it doesn't have ExtremeSpeed you can just Stone Edge it to death. Landorus also checks Mewtwo and Deoxys-A in case team 1 chooses them with its high Speed, U-turn, and Earthquake. This Landorus also takes full abuse of sandstorm thanks to its Sand Force ability which boosts Earthquake and Stone Edge. There really isn't anything else to say, as that's fairly straightforward...

[barry4ever]

Ok so here we are getting mauled by team 1. But lets not forget, that while team 1 has an incredibly daunting line up now, they've been tangled quite nicely as well. Lets take a closer inspection at team 1. Something which hits you like a cannon is the immediate fact that this team 1 is going to have a lot of difficulty switching stuff in, so a powerful hitter like a Specs Dragon~ / strong set up sweeper will probably sweep team 1 opts for a bulky wall or something of that sort. But team 1s direction wont let it go along that way. So lets introduce the dark horse of the tier: MAMOOOO !



Mamoswine (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear

This swine is gonna crush team 1s balls. Currently everything on team 1 is destroyed by Mamoswine. They can add Skarmory or something but that is just going to destroy their momentum. Icicle Crash will do a ton to any switchin (even Skarm) while EQ will take care of any Steels team 1 will bring. Ice Shard, just ohkoes rayquaza of the bat which doesnt have espeed anyway. Icicle Spear is to break Zekrom's Substitute and still hoepfully do a chunk of damage to it. Ice Shard will still take a chunk out of Groudon anyway. Mamoswine doesn't take any damage from Sandstorm either, I wish Mamo had Sand Veil.......

[jackm]

barry4ever, I literally had the exact same set in mind you did, and I was going to post it today if no one else did. But, you did, so I'm going to post yet another set idea I had. (I pondered this challenge for a long time yesterday.)


Hydregion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Naive Nature (+Spe, -Sdef)
EVs: 252 Satk/4 Atk/252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- U-Turn
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast

This set would cause Team 1 quite a lot of troubles due to its unpredictability. Hydregion outspeeds +1 Rayquaza and OHKOs both it and Zekrom with Draco Meteor. In addition, Draco Meteor deals 65.8%-77.6% to Groudon, ensuring that the current t1 is dissolved by it. U-Turn is one of the most important parts of the set, ensuring that Team 2 maintains momentum, while dealing decent damage. Fire Blast and Focus Blast are simply coverage; the reason that Focus Blast is there over Earth Power is to guarantee that Hydregion can hit Heatran, which Team 1 may end up using. It should be noted that Draco Meteor deals 45.8%-54.2% to +1 Sdef Mewtwo and 68.9%-81.4% to it at +0. This ensures that as long as Hydregion does not switch into Ice Beam (let's be honest, do you really think that a sun team is going to run Aura Sphere Mewtwo?) it can survive the hit with a surprising amount of HP and strike back hard. Finally, Hydregion synergises well with Excadrill offensively, smashing Skarmory, Gliscor, and Giratina (O or no) to a pulp.

[jackm]

Come on people, we need more nominations. I would post more except:

1.) I don't actually have any more ideas.

2.) I've already posted two sets to try to keep this thread going.

[Furai]

Nah, we have enough nominations. Oh and yeah, jackm, only one vote per round, please take another look at the rules. I'm going to do a coinflip--which Deoxys-A has won. Let's get to voting!

• jackm's Deoxys-A
• Furai's Choice Scarf Landorus
• barry4ever's Life Orb Mamoswine

My vote goes to Mamoswine. It's really underrated and can aid us in taking on Rayquaza, as well as weakened Groudon and Zekrom. It's really powerful and underrated.

[ginganinja]

Mamoswine

[jackm]

Oh, sorry, didn't catch that. Anyways, my vote goes to Mamoswine.

[Mr.lol]

I wanted Hydregion :( (it snatches momentum from HO which is invaluable). Oh well Mamoswineis a cool mon and can suffice. Deoxys-a is too frail for my tastes and Landorus doesn't provide synergy and I don't want a scarf mon right now.

[Dusknight]

My vote goes to Mamoswine. Ice and Ground STAB in Uber looks pretty neat.

[CottonPuff]

Mamo

[CrackinSkulls]

Mamoswine

[Furai]

After a long time, I'm taking this back up again. I've been to the states so couldn't take care of the thread. Regardless; present is what matters. On our last vote, you were asked to choose between Deoxys-A, Landorus, and Mamoswine, and obviously Mamoswine has won. So right now, it's Team 1's turn to nominate, and with BW2's additions, I'm sure it will be a blast.


Bring it on boys~

[Mr.lol]

Well uhm, I wouldn't be so sure that something new would be the best thing to choose.


Kyogre @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump (2HKOes Ferro and Blissey!)
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Team two really lacks synergy, while team one lacks an Ice-resist, attempting to keep the offensive pressure of the team while pairing up an Ice-resist is Kyogre! Kyogre can basically just spam Water and Ice type attacks on the team without caring about what any of them do, and practically forces the team to run a blob or Latias or Grass Arceus or Water Arceus. NOW, if they DO run Chansey then their offensive pressure just plummeted, A LOT. Even better is that Groudon and Rayquaza can take advantage of Chansey and use it for setup. While we can't do the same thing to Latias or Grass Arceus, we CAN opt to use Genesect, who basically "lols" at both of them and can spam boosted U-turns and Bug Buzzes to quickly dispose of them, WHILE providing momentum AND a Dragon resist. Lol at waterceus it gets disposed of by Zekrom. Its your standard "checkmate" situation. As a plus, Kyogre provides a weather to fall back on if stuff goes wrong and is more insurance against an Excadril and Mamo clean / sweep (oh it can switch in on Ice Shards AND discourage its use also :P (really nice considering what happens with Mamo vs Rayquaza)).

Oh and did I mention we still have an Arceus wild card left if we do pick ogre.

[BlueStar99]

This is my first post at Smogon, so I apologize if my ideas are not very good. Also, I'm posting from my 3DS so the formatting might be messed up. I propose this set below for Team 1.

Kyurem - W @ Choice Scarf
Ability - Turboblaze
Nature - Timid (-Atk, +Spe)
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk/4 Sp.Def/252 Spe
Ice Beam
Draco Meteor
Fusion Flare
Focus Blast

It has the power and speed to rip apart teams. It also serves as a potent revenge killer. Its base 95 speed outspeeds many base 90 scarfs like, for example, Dialga. It outspeeds all of Team 2 and OHKOs or 2HKOs with Stealth Rock. Against Team 2, it could do big damage to Mamoswine, Lugia, Hippowdon, and Excadrill. Also, it's neutral to ice so it can be switched into Ice Shard. I chose Ice Beam over Blizzard because of the accuracy. I felt like it needed an Ice STAB because is useful for OHKOing 4x weak dragons like Rayquaza. Ice Beam can KO other dragons like Zekrom if you don't want the Sp.Atk drop from Draco Meteor. Also, Fusion Flare and Draco Meteor is unresisted thanks to Turboblaze so there's really no hard counter. Finally, Fusion Flare is boosted by Groudon's sun. I don't think Kyogre would be a good idea because even if you ran Genesect to counter Grass Arceus and Latias, it would OHKOed by Flamethrower/Fire Blast from Grass Arceus and probably Hp Fire from Latias. (There's nothing for Genesect on the damage calculator) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
-------------------------------------
EDIT: Oh fail, I forgot it was choiced. I changed Roost to Focus Blast.

[Cherub Agent]

Just gonna say that Team 2's Mamoswine probably wants Thick Fat over Oblivious... the tea would really like an Ice resist.

Now, let's take a good look at team 2. 3 Water weaknesses and 2 Ice weaknesses. They're also using Sand with an Excadrill, which means that we really don't want them to keep the weather up. I mean c'mon, the team basically just screams: "Kyogre weak!"

A fast Kyogre would outspeed all of Hippowdon, Mamoswine and Excadrill. Team 1 could do with a nice heavy hitter right off the bat, so I'm gonna suggest Choice Specs Kyogre.

EDIT: Hold on. It OHKOs Lugia as well with Stealth Rock support. Know what this means? At the moment Choice Specs Kyogre can OUTSPEED and OHKO ALL of team 2 (SR needed for Lugia) Here are some calcs against Lugia (none needed for the other three):

Water Spout: 69.95 - 82.45%
Surf: 44.71 - 52.64%
Thunder: 74.51 - 87.98%
Ice Beam: 59.61 - 70.19%

Seeing as Kyogre outspeeds Lugia, nothing on team 2 is safe. At all. Kyogre only needs SR for Surf to 2HKO, it doesn't even need SR for all three other attacks to 2HKO. It truly is the bane of team 2 at the moment.



Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Modest / Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Max Speed to outrun Mamoswine and Excadrill, Water Spout can basically always net Team 1 a kill from now on. Surf is preferred over Hydro Pump as Kyogre doesn't need the extra power to destroy Team 2. Thunder and Ice Beam are obvious options on Kyogre, but they're also there so that it can smack Lugia around. Team 1 does't rely on Sun being up at all at the moment, so it's not like it clashes with Groudon at all.

Obviously the main reason to use it is because having Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza on a team together is super-duper awesome.

[Furai]

I like all 3 nominations so far, all 3 look great. But, like Cherub Agent posted a different Kyogre set, I want to do the same but with Kyurem-W!


Kyurem-White @ Choice Specs
Trait: Turboblaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Fusion Flare

Team 2 has 0 Ice resistances (1 if we decide to put Thick Fat on Mamoswine, but then again, Turboblaze), which means Kyurem-W can just come in, click Ice Beam, and wreck. Having the 2nd highest Special Attack after Deoxys-A, makes it a total nuke: back it up with Choice Specs, and you hit a massive 723 stat in Special Attack. Draco Meteor has 43.75% to OHKO Excadrill, which is just histerical. Focus Blast and Fusion Flare, which is boosted by Groudon's Drought, round the set with unresisted coverage. So simple, so effective.