Research Group #6 - Cofagrigus, Aggron, Lilligant

[kokoloko*]

Hello fellow UUers, it's time for the sixth installment of the Research Group!

#1 | #2 | #3 | #4 | #5

Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:

• Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
• Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Like I said before, feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

Research Group #6


Cofagrigus | Aggron | Lilligant

How useful are these Pokemon in UU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #genvuu as well!

The Research Group Challenge:

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Send me a PM / post here or on IRC with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!

The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who is at the highest rating on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends. If you win, you will receive temporary hops on #genvuu, but you may only claim your prize if you actually participated in the discussion!

Current Participants:

Forum Name - Ladder Alt

FruitSeller - FruitLoops
ThunderBlunder - Thunderblunder1
Gazillion - Gajillion
JabbaTheGriffin - Treiner Orenge
Ace Emerald - ztpvlh
TSTEF - ILikesFlowurs
PsYch071c - GreenQueen
FlareBlitz - Flaregron
Pokemazter - Ghoulish Steel
RT. - fijina
MyloXyloto - MyloXyloto II

[FruitSeller]

I'll try Cofagrigus or Aggron on alt: FruitLoops

[ThunderBlunder]

Awesome, Lilligant! Lilligant is hugely underrated in UU. I think I might try some kind of baiting team to get rid of steels or a ton of fire types. Maybe Magnemite to trap an kill and use something else that benefits from steels gone.

Alt: Thunderblunder1

Using:Lilligant

[Gazillion]

I'll work with Cofagrigus under the name Gajillion.

[Ace Emerald]

I think I'll start with Lilligant. I haven't really played with it, but it seems pretty dangerous.
Alt: ztpvlh

[JabbaTheGriffin*]

I'm the mysterious Treiner Orenge

i'll probably try out lilligant first since she's sexy

[TSTEF]

I'm going with Liligant
alt: ILikesFlowurs

[PsYch071c]

I will be using Lilligant, my alltime favorite UU poke.

Alt: GreenQueen

[ThunderBlunder]

I used Lilligant in a couple of matches today, and having used it since tiers came out last year, I have to say it's amazing. I tried pairing it with magneton to eliminate steels so it could have an easy time sweeping and also added some pokemon that love steel types gone. I just made a simple core of Hippopotas/CB Stoutland/DD Kingdra/Lilligant/Magneton/StallBreaker Mew and it was pretty effective letting Kingdra and Lilligant clean up after Stoutland has made holes in the opponents team. Lilligant definitely pulls it's weight and helps Kingdra a lot by taking out bulky waters like Suicune abd Slowbro. StallBreaker Mew has been kinda ehh on the team I'm using so if anyone is has a replacement I'd appreciate that greatly!

[Explorer]

Discussion question: What are good coverage moves for Aggron?

(here is a list of some coverage moves from the BW Aggron Smogon Pokedex entry)

Aerial Ace
Body Slam
Brick Break/Superpower
Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush
Earthquake
Payback
Shadow Claw

Of course, the STABs are Head Smash and Iron Head/Heavy Slam.

[ThunderBlunder]

Originally Posted by Fat Explorer

Discussion question: What are good coverage moves for Aggron?

(here is a list of some coverage moves from the BW Aggron Smogon Pokedex entry)

Aerial Ace
Body Slam
Brick Break/Superpower
Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush
Earthquake
Payback
Shadow Claw

Of course, the STABs are Head Smash and Iron Head/Heavy Slam.

Earthquake let's you hit steels an gives you great coverage alongside Head Smash. Aqua Tail is cool to smash things like Claydol, Nidoqueen, and Golurk. I personally enjoy usig Ice Punch sits it's not too less powerful than Aqua Tail and has the added benefit of annihilating Gligar on the switch. I run a CB Aggron with Head Smash/Earthquake/Heavy Slam/Ive Punch if you want to try that set. I'm pretty sure it's standard though

[Explorer]

I've also found Shadow Claw to be pretty nice, but it is probably inferior as a coverage move. Still, it murders a handful of threats, most notably Cofagrigus, who can burn Aggron and cripple it.

[FlareBlitz]

Originally Posted by Fat ThunderBlunder

StallBreaker Mew has been kinda ehh on the team I'm using so if anyone is has a replacement I'd appreciate that greatly!

Your team is going to want Sableye. It functions similarly to stallbreaker Mew but it covers a few more of your team's holes. As it is, your team is somewhat weak to strong fire types, especially Chandelure and Arcanine. Sableye doesn't help with this, but you can't really fix it without compromising your core.

Anyway, I will be testing Aggron and Coffie. Alt will be Flaregron.

[ThunderBlunder]

Originally Posted by Fat FlareBlitz

Your team is going to want Sableye. It functions similarly to stallbreaker Mew but it covers a few more of your team's holes. As it is, your team is somewhat weak to strong fire types, especially Chandelure and Arcanine. Sableye doesn't help with this, but you can't really fix it without compromising your core.

Anyway, I will be testing Aggron and Coffie. Alt will be Flaregron.

Magneton has been pretty iffy in a lot of my past matches just because people are now ready for it. Any suggestions on something that can take out steels while taking on my fire poke weakness?

[FlareBlitz]

Originally Posted by Fat ThunderBlunder

Magneton has been pretty iffy in a lot of my past matches just because people are now ready for it. Any suggestions on something that can take out steels while taking on my fire poke weakness?

Thick Fat Curselax with Fire Punch and Earthquake is one of the best steel-type lures in the tier. Luckily for you, it also handles chandelure (not arcanine though).

[TSTEF]

So for lilligant, is HP Fire or Rock better? I was looking at the set and stuff, but i really couldn't decide.

[Ace Emerald]

Originally Posted by Fat TSTEF

So for lilligant, is HP Fire or Rock better? I was looking at the set and stuff, but i really couldn't decide.

Rock. Fire and Flying are more common types than steel.

[FlareBlitz]

Originally Posted by Fat Ace Emerald

Rock. Fire and Flying are more common types than steel.

Are you forgetting grass types? Roserade is the most common Pokemon in the tier.

I'd say which HP you want to use is entirely dependent on the rest of your team.

[Explorer]

That depends on your teammates. HP Rock covers four of its own weaknesses, but for sun teams, HP Fire will obviously be stronger. Of course, if your team is filled with fire-type moves, then HP Rock is more useful for the team as a whole.

Also consider HP Ice, although most fire-types wall Grass/Ice.

[Ace Emerald]

Originally Posted by Fat FlareBlitz

Are you forgetting grass types? Roserade is the most common Pokemon in the tier.

I'd say which HP you want to use is entirely dependent on the rest of your team.

Chandelure is only second by a mere 4%, and I've found the ability to KO fire types easily very valuable. Not to mention, Roserade is a safe sleep, as even though its not incapacitated, it doesn't count against your sleep clause when it switches out and removes sleep. I've used fire and rock, and I've personally found rock to be superior. As far as other things go, Shaymin is set up fodder, and Bronzong and Registeel are hard to kill even with hp fire. Rock does miss out on Heracross for sure, but overall I really feel Rock over Fire pays well (unless its a sun team of course). Just my $.25

[tocador]

For aggron i stole a set someone used on NU(PU?) for UU and its really dam effective, i tweaked it a little bit but here it goes:

Aggron @ Leftovers
Rock Head
252 Attack, 252 Spdef, 4 HP Adamant (+Attack, -Sp.attack)
-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Head Smash
-Magnet Rise

This set is really awesome because of one move: Magnet rise. Most mons that theoretically check Aggron usually relly on on EQ to hit it, and with magnet rise you just dodge them completly. You are usually going to sub on the switch and when they send their check, you magnet rise and just sub aggain!
The main threats it dodges are: Glygars, Hippo's, Flygons!(!!!!!), Brozongs!
Added to the EQ immunity, with max spdef it can easily come in aggaisnt P2's or PZ's, sub on its face and focus punch the hell out of it. It can easily check too some common threats like Umbreon, P2/PZ, Honchcrow. And if behind a Sub it can wreck some serious damage with 350 damage + 150 BP moves! Aggron is just a beast!

TL;DR
This aggron set is amazing if you know how to play it can your team can offer some support to it, try it!

[Pokemazter]

I'll try my hand with Aggron and Cofagrigus. I was planning on making a new UU team anyways.

Alt: Ghoulish Steel

[RT.]

using Lilligant under fijina

[Mylo Xyloto]

In and using Lilligant
Alt: MyloXyloto II

[Ace Emerald]

I've laddered a ton with several different Lilligant teams, and here's what I think so far. Lilligant is a very threatening sweeper once it gets to +2/+2/+2. LO Giga Drain wrecks a lot, and sleep is a total bitch. Here's my problem though: it's so hard to set up with Lilligant. Even with +1 special defense, 70/75/75 uninvested defenses are not enough to tank hits. Furthermore, Grass typing alone shuts down very few Pokemon; most potential set up bait carries a coverage move threatening to Lilligant. Although Lilligant would be a fantastic late game sweeper, it's even harder to set up late game because the few Pokemon that Lilligant can set up on are dead, or willing to sack themselves to cripple Lilligant. I thought that Sleep Powder would mitigate this, because it seems like you could set up on anything slower than base 90 speed by sleeping it. Instead, Sleep Powder just creates a new problem. On most teams, there is something that can wall Lilligant, and something that can revenge it with one Quiver Dance. Because of Sleep Clause, it's already hard to sleep everything that threatens Lilligant, a player can't afford to spend that Sleep Powder to set up Quiver Dance.

tl;dr Although Lilligant is a dangerous sweeper post set up, it's hard to sweep mid game, it's hard to set up late game.