VGC '12 Japanese Championships - Page 5

Pokérob · Jun 12th, 2012, 2:43:00 PM

Lol I feel like such a slowbro now, thank you! :)

DreamTalon · Jun 12th, 2012, 4:30:12 PM

I noticed that the Thundurus of the Japanese Master division championship had the same moveset has Shota's in the Senior division.

**ΩDonut** · Jun 13th, 2012, 8:43:21 AM

Rees · Jun 13th, 2012, 3:20:01 PM

Masters division winner's full team, for anybody interested:

Thundurus (M) @ Sitrus Berry Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 4 SAtk / 116 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Swagger
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 220 HP / 84 SDef / 204 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash
- Protect

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 220 HP / 4 Def / 156 SAtk / 36 SDef / 92 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Swagger
- Thunder Wave

Hydreigon (M) @ Haban Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 188 HP / 4 Def / 36 SAtk / 44 SDef / 236 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Rotom-W @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 228 HP / 4 Def / 204 SAtk / 4 SDef / 68 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

Conkeldurr (F) @ Persim Berry
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Atk / 244 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Detect
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Rock Slide

Synre · Jun 13th, 2012, 4:08:17 PM

Oh god I'm so excited to watch this shit thanks Suleski remind me to buy you a drink or something

Also pleased to see the full team dump will enjoy thinking about that more later, though at first glance I notice that Fake Out, and Hitmontop in particular must be a lot less popular in Japan because he has the worst first turn against Fake Out I think I've ever seen. Only 3/6 Pokemon on the team with Protect/Detect, no Fake Out of his own, and sort of a tough first turn against most FO+X set-ups without Zen Headbutt on Metagross, for instance. Would struggle with some of the PO meta cheese strats like Volc+Top a little since he's either just gotta eat it turn 1 -- which could hurt a lot if he leads something like Cress -- or if he wants to double Protect get stuck out with at least one of Hydreigon and Metagross who don't want to be out in that matchup. Realistically he probably has to lead Conks+X and like Detect/Switch to something that gives him a more favorable matchup but he's gotta sacrifice some of his normal Swagger/Persim crap to do that against that set-up since Conks is going to need to fight early in that scenario which doesn't seem super favorable, though if he were against Volc/Top and did that having 100% -1 Att Conks+Rotom who's only been hit by HW out or whatever isn't a terrible situation though it's still probably disadvantageous, or maybe something where he can try to bait Heat Wave into a double switch of Rotom/Hydreigon or something. There's quite a few other common Hitmontop+Xs in our meta that he'd have to switch around to try to get a decent matchup against, feel like you'd have to adjust the team a little to play it here.

EDIT: Enjoyed watching the eventual champion's semi a lot (the third). Made a bunch of nice high % moves and hit an awesome double switch to get that nasty Thund/Conks combo out against TR. Used same 4 mons as finals. I'm not in love with his Hydreigon set-up in particular but his team has a lot of options for common problems, a nice balance of offense and defense, and he plays it really well every turn of both matches we have of him. A lot of the other Japanese Masters use kinda the same boring stuff we make fun of people for abusing(but with more Swagger...) so it was kinda nice to see his team be at least a little more original and not feature Zapdos, Hitmontop, Rain, or Sand (though he has equally boring Meta/Cress in the two slots we didn't see in the videos, apparently).

**ΩDonut** · Jun 13th, 2012, 4:36:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Human

FIRST MISTAKE THAT MAKES NEARLY NO SENSE COMES IN TURN THREE

• Keep Salamence into get sacked for a free switch in, it is not going to do anything again, and potential for Hydreigon to switch out now again after using Protect is high coupled with the off chance that Conkeldurr carries Wide Guard so uses Dragon Claw to KO Hydreigon and hope that Conkeldurr is min-speed so Choice Scarf Salamence can still outspeed. Uses Drain Punch on Salamence maybe predicting a switch and to sack Hydreigon for your own free switch? This was the first mistake, best move would have been to Mach Punch Garchomp and try KOing Salamence with a move other than Draco Meteor, but tries to maybe double target Salamence with Drain Punch + unknown move because Garchomp KOd Hydreigon.

This is actually a very smart play by the Masters winner (did anybody catch his name, by the way?)

If he had taken out Garchomp and Salamence that turn, he would have given two fresh Pokémon a free switch-in, with a weakened Conkeldurr and Hydreigon (who at -2 SpAttk can provide no real cover fire for Conkeldurr). His opponent could have taken a divide-and-conquer option, leaving Hydreigon a sitting duck while taking out Conkeldurr, turning the momentum in his favor.

Sure, with some prediction he might have been able to take out Scizor and Tyranitar with those two. But he has no idea what else his opponent has at this point. No idea if he can get his back two in without taking heavy damage. By sacking Hydreigon to get Specs Rotom in safely, he's playing it safe and making sure he can keep up the pressure.

Furthermore, by not going for the obvious Mach Punch he casts doubt that it carries it at all, and make his opponent think it's a Drain Punch\Wide Guard set.

By leaving Garchomp alive, he can execute a divide-and-conquer strategy of his own, because he knows Mach Punch will KO Garchomp before it gets a chance to move, so Rotom can focus on the other Pokémon safely. If he had taken out Garchomp the previous turn, both incoming Pokémon would have a chance to move and take out Rotom and\or Conkeldurr.

Age of Kings · Jun 13th, 2012, 5:05:42 PM

POV of Masters finals video is Junbei Yamamoto, opponent is Kitomo Masukata

POV of Seniors finals is Shota Yamamoto, opponent is Takuya Tsukatani

POV of Juniors finals is Kouta Nakamura, opponent is Aiko Hiura

Human · Jun 13th, 2012, 5:40:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ΩDonut

This is actually a very smart play by the Masters winner (did anybody catch his name, by the way?)

If he had taken out Garchomp and Salamence that turn, he would have given two fresh Pokémon a free switch-in, with a weakened Conkeldurr and Hydreigon (who at -2 SpAttk can provide no real cover fire for Conkeldurr). His opponent could have taken a divide-and-conquer option, leaving Hydreigon a sitting duck while taking out Conkeldurr, turning the momentum in his favor.

Sure, with some prediction he might have been able to take out Scizor and Tyranitar with those two. But he has no idea what else his opponent has at this point. No idea if he can get his back two in without taking heavy damage. By sacking Hydreigon to get Specs Rotom in safely, he's playing it safe and making sure he can keep up the pressure.

Furthermore, by not going for the obvious Mach Punch he casts doubt that it carries it at all, and make his opponent think it's a Drain Punch\Wide Guard set.

By leaving Garchomp alive, he can execute a divide-and-conquer strategy of his own, because he knows Mach Punch will KO Garchomp before it gets a chance to move, so Rotom can focus on the other Pokémon safely. If he had taken out Garchomp the previous turn, both incoming Pokémon would have a chance to move and take out Rotom and\or Conkeldurr.

After having watched two of the videos you linked and cross-referencing the names between those semi-finals videos and the finals videos I found that the other two pokemon the person who got 2nd was using were Cresselia and Rotom-C. (Source http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxL3q00TUJE and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkAxJ8qyMpA)

Had he KOd both pokemon and he brought out Scizor you can check if it is Occa of Flying Gem Acrobatics with Flamethrower which you confirmed Hydreigon later had. Even Flamethrower and Drain Punch the next turn would have either put Tyranitar in the KO Range of Mach Punch again or Scizor would be incredibly weakened by Flamethrower in the KO range for Thundurus' Thunderbolt. Potential ways to win, Flamethrower with Hydreigon and later KO both with Conkeldurr and Thundurus or Conkeldurr Rotom-W or Mach Punch Tyranitar and switch in Rotom-W, had he used Flying Gem Acrobatics Rock Slide then Rotom-W takes the hit and can now threaten with OHKO on either pokemon with Hydro Pump, sure win.

If it was Cresselia Tyranitar in the back by using Drain Punch you allow him to send out Cresselia, you are either KOd or need to make a switch or Protect and if you none of them then you allowed Cresselia to KO Conkeldurr, this puts you in a disadvantage where it is now 2-2 against Cresselia Tyranitar and best move would probably be to Taunt an offensive Cresselia which can 3HKO Rotom-W with Psychic, and if for some reason he didn't Protect with Tyranitar the Tyranitar has over a 50% chance of surviving either by you missing or the damage roll. By using Drain Punch your odds of winning drop to about 20%.

Had you used Mach Punch in that situation Hydreigon will still be able to play and he can no longer use Psychic to KO Conkeldurr as then Hydreigon is immune and this makes beating Tyranitar much easier as you can Mach Punch once more to put it in the certain KO range. Worst case scenario you have an 80% chance of winning, this is four times better than using Drain Punch.

Tyranitar Rotom-C vs the remaining Pokemon, Hydreigon once again needs to be saved to handle max speed Choice Specs Rotom-C with Flamethrower. It is obviously choice specs as can be seen by how it OHKOd a Tyranitar (unless it was a critical hit, I can not read Japanese), in which case Thunderbolt will allow a sweep to occur once Hydreigon is KOd versus Mach Punch Flamethrower KO on the Rotom-C had Hydreigon remained.

This only leaves Cresselia Rotom-C remaining and as mentioned before both of these Pokemon would have had excellent match up on the remaining pokemon once Hydreigon was out of the way as there was nothing that can beat Cresselia in a reasonable time period, although you can time stall it will not work if you are down because you couldn't touch Rotom-C.

Scizor Rotom-C in the back would have created a loss for the other person in every situation though because even with Drain Punch you don't put anything in a specific KO range and offensively they will be able to sweep your team other than Thundurus which might be the only way to win if he choose to try to parafusion hax the Rotom-C because no matter what he did there would have been no chance for a victory.

Rees · Jun 15th, 2012, 6:34:00 AM

50-16767-99018
66-52220-21756
Two more battles from Kitomo Masukata.

Calm_Lava · Jun 15th, 2012, 11:33:55 AM

Human shhhhh

Sixonesix · Jun 16th, 2012, 7:53:02 PM

Masters finalists names are Satoru Masukata and Junpei Yamamoto, the announcer introduces them in the beginning of the match.

Pokérob · Jun 17th, 2012, 7:24:52 PM

How many go through from the Japanese Qualifiers in each division to Worlds this year?

Age of Kings · Jun 17th, 2012, 7:27:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sixonesix

Masters finalists names are Satoru Masukata and Junpei Yamamoto, the announcer introduces them in the beginning of the match.

rofl the text is so small I had to make guesses. I fail :c

TheGr8 · Jun 18th, 2012, 7:47:07 PM

this was really cool to see the japanese nationals. Since they didnt participate last year in my first VGC, it's cool to see them back!

Havak · Jun 18th, 2012, 8:48:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat human

Tyranitar Rotom-C vs the remaining Pokemon, Hydreigon once again needs to be saved to handle max speed Choice Specs Rotom-C with Flamethrower. It is obviously choice specs as can be seen by how it OHKOd a Tyranitar (unless it was a critical hit, I can not read Japanese)

It was Grass Gem Rotom-C, just fyi.

Xicious · Jun 23rd, 2012, 8:07:35 AM

Winning team for masters seems a little gimmicky. Do you think this kind of stuff will show at us nats?

Cybertron · Jun 23rd, 2012, 2:06:47 PM

Sure. Copying teams is a good way to win championships, or so I heard.

It may be gimmicky for our standards because we're so used to such a centralized metagame, but for Japanesse players, that kind of team is pretty "standard." I'm sure it'll impact how teams are built and how the metagame will shape up for US Nats.

Carl · Jun 23rd, 2012, 2:13:06 PM

what no volctop??

LPFan · Jun 23rd, 2012, 2:17:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Xicious

Winning team for masters seems a little gimmicky. Do you think this kind of stuff will show at us nats?

Some, if swagger Cress/Thundurus is what you're talking about.

Xicious · Jun 24th, 2012, 2:29:32 PM

Gotchya. Yeah a friend of mine all the way out in philly said that's what won the regionals there for masters and maybe juniors.

Jun 12th, 2012, 2:43:00 PM	#101
Pokérob Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 353 Cambridgeshire UK	Lol I feel like such a slowbro now, thank you! :) __________________ VGC 2012 National Paris - 3rd Place Attended all VGC 2012 European Nationals 2012 Worlds VGC Participant - Representing the UNITED KINGDOM!

Jun 12th, 2012, 4:30:12 PM	#102
DreamTalon Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 186 Dallas, Texas	I noticed that the Thundurus of the Japanese Master division championship had the same moveset has Shota's in the Senior division. __________________ "We must treasure these (Unown), since they are us at our very core... ALSO, DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU CAN MAKE WORDS OUT OF THEM? THAT'S PRETTY COOL!!!!!!!!"

Jun 13th, 2012, 3:20:01 PM	#104
Rees Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 6 Devon, UK	Masters division winner's full team, for anybody interested: Thundurus (M) @ Sitrus Berry Trait: Prankster EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 4 SAtk / 116 SDef / 4 Spd Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Swagger - Taunt - Thunder Wave - Thunderbolt Metagross @ Lum Berry Trait: Clear Body EVs: 220 HP / 84 SDef / 204 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Bullet Punch - Earthquake - Meteor Mash - Protect Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate EVs: 220 HP / 4 Def / 156 SAtk / 36 SDef / 92 Spd Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Ice Beam - Psychic - Swagger - Thunder Wave Hydreigon (M) @ Haban Berry Trait: Levitate EVs: 188 HP / 4 Def / 36 SAtk / 44 SDef / 236 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Dark Pulse - Draco Meteor - Flamethrower - Protect Rotom-W @ Choice Specs Trait: Levitate EVs: 228 HP / 4 Def / 204 SAtk / 4 SDef / 68 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Hydro Pump - Thunder - Thunderbolt - Trick Conkeldurr (F) @ Persim Berry Trait: Guts EVs: 252 HP / 12 Atk / 244 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Detect - Drain Punch - Mach Punch - Rock Slide Last edited by Rees; Jun 13th, 2012 at 4:04:58 PM.

Jun 13th, 2012, 4:08:17 PM	#105
Synre I did my best, I have no regrets FABULOUS Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,571	Oh god I'm so excited to watch this shit thanks Suleski remind me to buy you a drink or something Also pleased to see the full team dump will enjoy thinking about that more later, though at first glance I notice that Fake Out, and Hitmontop in particular must be a lot less popular in Japan because he has the worst first turn against Fake Out I think I've ever seen. Only 3/6 Pokemon on the team with Protect/Detect, no Fake Out of his own, and sort of a tough first turn against most FO+X set-ups without Zen Headbutt on Metagross, for instance. Would struggle with some of the PO meta cheese strats like Volc+Top a little since he's either just gotta eat it turn 1 -- which could hurt a lot if he leads something like Cress -- or if he wants to double Protect get stuck out with at least one of Hydreigon and Metagross who don't want to be out in that matchup. Realistically he probably has to lead Conks+X and like Detect/Switch to something that gives him a more favorable matchup but he's gotta sacrifice some of his normal Swagger/Persim crap to do that against that set-up since Conks is going to need to fight early in that scenario which doesn't seem super favorable, though if he were against Volc/Top and did that having 100% -1 Att Conks+Rotom who's only been hit by HW out or whatever isn't a terrible situation though it's still probably disadvantageous, or maybe something where he can try to bait Heat Wave into a double switch of Rotom/Hydreigon or something. There's quite a few other common Hitmontop+Xs in our meta that he'd have to switch around to try to get a decent matchup against, feel like you'd have to adjust the team a little to play it here. EDIT: Enjoyed watching the eventual champion's semi a lot (the third). Made a bunch of nice high % moves and hit an awesome double switch to get that nasty Thund/Conks combo out against TR. Used same 4 mons as finals. I'm not in love with his Hydreigon set-up in particular but his team has a lot of options for common problems, a nice balance of offense and defense, and he plays it really well every turn of both matches we have of him. A lot of the other Japanese Masters use kinda the same boring stuff we make fun of people for abusing(but with more Swagger...) so it was kinda nice to see his team be at least a little more original and not feature Zapdos, Hitmontop, Rain, or Sand (though he has equally boring Meta/Cress in the two slots we didn't see in the videos, apparently). Last edited by Synre; Jun 13th, 2012 at 5:27:48 PM.

Jun 13th, 2012, 5:05:42 PM	#107
Age of Kings Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,303 Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea	POV of Masters finals video is Junbei Yamamoto, opponent is Kitomo Masukata POV of Seniors finals is Shota Yamamoto, opponent is Takuya Tsukatani POV of Juniors finals is Kouta Nakamura, opponent is Aiko Hiura __________________ Black FC: 3396 3071 2727 mein crap, don't post please

Jun 13th, 2012, 8:43:21 AM	#103
ΩDonut sometimes experimentation begins with "let's multi battle strip pokémon" Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,691	Here's a list of battle videos. Some of these were marked as "semi-finals" in the description, even if there were 4 of them in total. Feel free to PM me with expanded descriptions so I can add them in. Masters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxW1fUwCpzU (finals) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxL3q00TUJE (semi-finals 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbh-GRvE5CA (semi-finals 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fUgLQk8Jdc (semi-finals 3, pt 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZERn6J9r08 (semi-finals 3, pt 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkAxJ8qyMpA (semi-finals 4) Seniors http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNiC7FbkAEA (finals, pt 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFDnp9JnybM (finals, pt 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GPOUpir1a0 (semi-finals 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whX-S2Vk9yM (semi-finals 2, pt 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp2QHVr6Gfc (semi-finals 2, pt 2) Juniors http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOpUFxDshJk (finals) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFD6ri7hsus (semi-finals 1, pt 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXbZD8pZX2U (semi-finals 1, pt 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-mhEsJk6aM (semi-finals 2, pt 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9LUMAdoCao (semi-finals 2, pt 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0peul1Br1A (semi-finals 3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ7IzWLjhB8 (semi-finals 4)

Jun 15th, 2012, 6:34:00 AM	#109
Rees Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 6 Devon, UK	50-16767-99018 66-52220-21756 Two more battles from Kitomo Masukata.

Jun 15th, 2012, 11:33:55 AM	#110
Calm_Lava Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 48 Tulsa, Oklahoma	Human shhhhh __________________ #Csmugs

Jun 16th, 2012, 7:53:02 PM	#111
Sixonesix Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,592	Masters finalists names are Satoru Masukata and Junpei Yamamoto, the announcer introduces them in the beginning of the match.

Jun 17th, 2012, 7:24:52 PM	#112
Pokérob Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 353 Cambridgeshire UK	How many go through from the Japanese Qualifiers in each division to Worlds this year? __________________ VGC 2012 National Paris - 3rd Place Attended all VGC 2012 European Nationals 2012 Worlds VGC Participant - Representing the UNITED KINGDOM!

Jun 18th, 2012, 7:47:07 PM	#114
TheGr8 Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 243 Connecticut	this was really cool to see the japanese nationals. Since they didnt participate last year in my first VGC, it's cool to see them back! __________________ VGC Philly 2012 Masters: 7th in Pink Flight, 15th Overall Youtube: VGC and Wifi Battles Twitter: Follow me! Spring Friendly Records: Here

Jun 23rd, 2012, 8:07:35 AM	#116
Xicious Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 East Coast, USA	Winning team for masters seems a little gimmicky. Do you think this kind of stuff will show at us nats?

Jun 23rd, 2012, 2:06:47 PM	#117
Cybertron Stay classy. Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,922	Sure. Copying teams is a good way to win championships, or so I heard. It may be gimmicky for our standards because we're so used to such a centralized metagame, but for Japanesse players, that kind of team is pretty "standard." I'm sure it'll impact how teams are built and how the metagame will shape up for US Nats.

Jun 23rd, 2012, 2:13:06 PM	#118
Carl or Varl Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,530 Gear Station	what no volctop?? __________________ frlg snorlax.

Jun 24th, 2012, 2:29:32 PM	#120
Xicious Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 17 East Coast, USA	Gotchya. Yeah a friend of mine all the way out in philly said that's what won the regionals there for masters and maybe juniors.