BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread - Page 3

The Reptile · Jun 24th, 2012, 9:18:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Novaray

Ttar already had fire punch, fire blast was for skarm while still wrecking ferrothorn

It did? I thought all it got was Fire Fang for physical fire moves.

And yeah, I can see what you mean about Skarm. Guess it's not as useful as I thought it would be.

alphatron · Jun 24th, 2012, 9:22:18 AM

I think double sand would be a liability now, with keldeo and the genies everywhere as well as an increased usage of mamoswine. I can't see hippowdon doing much (and I would like to be corrected on this).

Sand shouldn't have that much trouble dealing with politoed though. Grass types were a must for them anyway. And unlike ninetales, politoed has no business switching into Tyranitar (I use banded Tyranitar myself).

Danger Mouse · Jun 24th, 2012, 9:42:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alphatron

I think double sand would be a liability now, with keldeo and the genies everywhere as well as an increased usage of mamoswine. I can't see hippowdon doing much (and I would like to be corrected on this).

Sand shouldn't have that much trouble dealing with politoed though. Grass types were a must for them anyway. And unlike ninetales, politoed has no business switching into Tyranitar (I use banded Tyranitar myself).

Good point. Politoed can't switch into ttar, and depending on the set, ttar can easily switch into politoed (it can't switch into something like specs hydro pump or focus blast but most people run defensive politoed these days because the specs set is just bad) and scare it out, nailing it with pursuit...or crunch if it's dumb enough to stay in.

RainbowCrash · Jun 24th, 2012, 9:52:28 AM

I think that now with keldeo and tornadus T and thundurus T facilitating offensive rain drizzle should be banned.The combo ban doesnt go far enough in my opinion
The Meta was sinking into bulky offensive but now its going to be like pre thundurus ban b/w
If Drizzle does get banned Sand Stall Could be viable with roost poison heal Gliscor but we will have to wait and see

b2j135 · Jun 24th, 2012, 10:16:58 AM

Calling it now:
Tornadus-T=OU maybe BL?
Thundurus-T=OU
Landorus-T=OU
Black Kyurem=Uber (obviously)
White Kyurem=Uber (also obviously)
Keldeo/Keldeo-R=OU maybe BL?

alphatron · Jun 24th, 2012, 10:18:51 AM

What makes the kyurem forms obviously über? Their base stat total?

Dr Ciel · Jun 24th, 2012, 10:23:46 AM

B Kyurem has base 170 Attack and W Kyurem has base 170 Special Attack.

alphatron · Jun 24th, 2012, 10:28:19 AM

And 95 base speed alongside an awful defensIve typing. He still warrants a test at least. Si on gamefaqs did a bunch of calcs for steel types that can tank W-Kyurem's Draco meteors and the list of survivors is bigger than I thought.

~~bubbly~~ · Jun 24th, 2012, 10:31:31 AM

I'm not convinced Black Kyurem is broken in OU, even though I think the meta will be better off without it. The damage upgrade from Haxorus isn't that significant in terms of KO's, especially now Haxorus got Superpower and Aqua Tail. Also, it isn't hard to revenge when it locks itself into Outrage.

EDIT: I really can't see W Kyurem staying, or even being tested. That Draco Meteor backed up by Fire and either Fighting or Ground coverage to hit Jirachi / Heatran / Tyranitar etc...literally nothing can switch in safely, and most special walls risk being easily 2HKO'd if they mispredict (out of the very few which aren't destroyed by DM). Unlike Victini and Darmanitan, it also gets a lot of opportunities to just spam attacks, because its typing flat out beats Water / Grass / Electrics together with it's nice bulk.

Sewa · Jun 24th, 2012, 10:35:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat b2j135

Calling it now:
Tornadus-T=OU maybe BL?
Thundurus-T=OU
Landorus-T=OU
Black Kyurem=Uber (obviously)
White Kyurem=Uber (also obviously)
Keldeo/Keldeo-R=OU maybe BL?

How can tornadus-t be Borderline? It has power, speed, regenerator to abuse life orb, good coverage (Hurricane/Focus Blast/Heat Wave/HP). It will be top OU. I see Landorus-T will have low usage, instead.
The same goes for Keldeo: specs Hydropump is really something to watch out for, especially in rain. And the few counters are poke that rain eats for breakfast.

Dr Ciel · Jun 24th, 2012, 10:42:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sewa

How can tornadus-t be Borderline? It has power, speed, regenerator to abuse life orb, good coverage (Hurricane/Focus Blast/Heat Wave/HP). It will be top OU. I see Landorus-T will have low usage, instead.
The same goes for Keldeo: specs Hydropump is really something to watch out for, especially in rain. And the few counters are poke that rain eats for breakfast.

Agree 100% this. Espically on the Keldeo/Keldeo-R part. That Specs Hydro Pump in rain can basically 2HKO the whole tier except for the obvious bulky waters.

CrackinSkulls · Jun 24th, 2012, 10:48:07 AM

Of all of them i thought that landorus-t would be a possible borderline and btw you clearly havent used a keldeo i think that it is definitely in OU. thundurus might be uber. lando may be bl IMO

alexwolf · Jun 24th, 2012, 10:51:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alphatron

Has anyone been using landorus-T at all? I've seen no talk and no usage yet (though I've only had a few matches).

So mamoswine continues to be amazing. Giga drain chlorophyll venusaur continues to kick ass. Giga drain volcorona is way better than I expected, and thundurus-T is not as threatening as I thought he would be. The lack of switch ins is still scary as hell though. There's sp. def Camerupt and... =\

Latios is his best counter, use it if he troubles you...

Lavos Spawn · Jun 24th, 2012, 11:00:34 AM

Scarf Thundurus-T is really good at beating regular Thundurus-T, it can switch in on Tbolt or Vswitch and revenge with HP Ice. Give that a try.

Still wishing it got Lightningrod, though...imagine +1 LO Agility Thundurus-T in rain.

JSND · Jun 24th, 2012, 11:06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sewa

How can tornadus-t be Borderline? It has power, speed, regenerator to abuse life orb, good coverage (Hurricane/Focus Blast/Heat Wave/HP). It will be top OU. I see Landorus-T will have low usage, instead.
The same goes for Keldeo: specs Hydropump is really something to watch out for, especially in rain. And the few counters are poke that rain eats for breakfast.

Im totally offended by the fact that he put Landorus as Obvious OU yet not do the same with Tornadus T

Seriously, Landorus T probably get the biggest shaft amongst the T forms

Darkhuaza517 · Jun 24th, 2012, 11:06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat pokemon0078

Excadrill would be healthy for this meta IMO. It can switch-in to non-Focus Blast Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T. Gliscor, Amoonguss, Conkeldurr, and Landorus-T counter it, and Keldeo checks it. Also, it spins and gets Stealth Rock, which is cool. Also, sand needs all the help it can get ATM.

Garchomp would also be fine. With rain dominating, Sand Veil is not as big of an issue, and multiple new threats can beat it, including the Therian genies and Keldeo. Also, Haxorus gives it competition for a teamslot. Oh and Ice Shard Thick Fat Mamoswine.

Thundurus-I (like the others) seems okay. It looks like Thundurus-T outclasses it, and Tornadus-T can check it. In addition, Regenerator Amoonguss and the more useful now Gastrodon beat it as well. Ice Shard Thick Fat Mamoswine is a thing.

I'm on an iPod and don't want write a whole ton now, but other than Shaymin-S I could totally see AfroThunderRule's list of retestings being viable.

EDIT: If this sounds stupid then sorry, or if whatever examples don't make any sense. Also sorry if this isn't the appropriate place.

Excadrill and Garchomp are Ubers.

Grape Drink 2.0 · Jun 24th, 2012, 11:12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Darkhuaza517

Excadrill and Garchomp are Ubers.

That point was he was aware of and was advocating them being let back into OU.

Sewa · Jun 24th, 2012, 11:15:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Darkhuaza517

Excadrill and Garchomp are Ubers.

In fact he's saying that we should retest them, giving the huge boost to rain team and new checks and counters to both pokes.

EDIT: aw, ninjaed Q_Q

Jets · Jun 24th, 2012, 11:23:34 AM

hail gets nothing.... like always ._.

Lightning Tiger · Jun 24th, 2012, 11:29:08 AM

Hail should have at least gotten a 50% defense boost for Ice Types,,, come on game freak...

Sand Rush Sandslash any good?

Dr Ciel · Jun 24th, 2012, 11:31:10 AM

Sand Rush Sandslash is surprisingly good. You can run an offensive Swords Dance set with Rapid Spin, or you could go bulky Rapid Spin.

Dark Fallen Angel · Jun 24th, 2012, 11:31:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Jets

hail gets nothing.... like always ._.

Doesn't a White Kyurem spamming Blizzard coming off a 170 base SpA counts?

I am only sad that sand got really nothing notable with BW2 with exception of Sand Rush Sandslash. While it's true that the general options from OP works on the sand, as the name says they are GENERAL, sand could get something that only works with them like Rain and Sun did. I would agree if Garchomp and Excadrill were to be retested.

Griff · Jun 24th, 2012, 11:36:22 AM

BW2 and sand wasn't all bad imo. The Amoonguss Slowbro core works well together in sand and stoutland got superpower. I'm using a sand team right now.

**PK Gaming** · Jun 24th, 2012, 11:44:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alphatron

And 95 base speed alongside an awful defensIve typing. He still warrants a test at least. Si on gamefaqs did a bunch of calcs for steel types that can tank W-Kyurem's Draco meteors and the list of survivors is bigger than I thought.

White Kyurem can also obliterate every single steel~~save Heatran~~ type in the game with Fusion Flare.

**kd24** · Jun 24th, 2012, 12:00:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alphatron

And 95 base speed alongside an awful defensIve typing. He still warrants a test at least. Si on gamefaqs did a bunch of calcs for steel types that can tank W-Kyurem's Draco meteors and the list of survivors is bigger than I thought.

I don't think anyone who plays competitively would ever want Kyurem forms to touch OU. You have to grasp just how strong 170 Base is and that's not even counting the bulk this thing has. An awful defensive typing is arguable as well. Resists to Water, Grass, Electric, neutrality to Fire and Ice, and weaknesses to Steel, Fight, Rock, Dragon. If you focus only on the weaknesses you might assume it sucks but realize that resistances to Water, Grass, and Electric allows it to switch-in to many Pokemon in OU without taking much damage when combined with it's bulk.

Watching the metagame turn into "who can spam Draco Meteors faster" + "3 Steels on every team" is not my idea of "deserving of a test".

Jun 24th, 2012, 9:22:18 AM	#52
alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair! Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,357	I think double sand would be a liability now, with keldeo and the genies everywhere as well as an increased usage of mamoswine. I can't see hippowdon doing much (and I would like to be corrected on this). Sand shouldn't have that much trouble dealing with politoed though. Grass types were a must for them anyway. And unlike ninetales, politoed has no business switching into Tyranitar (I use banded Tyranitar myself). __________________ Fifth Gen OU RMT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...67#post3383567

Jun 24th, 2012, 10:16:58 AM	#55
b2j135 Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 261 C-City	Calling it now: Tornadus-T=OU maybe BL? Thundurus-T=OU Landorus-T=OU Black Kyurem=Uber (obviously) White Kyurem=Uber (also obviously) Keldeo/Keldeo-R=OU maybe BL? __________________ Black 2: 2151-5964-8727 (Add this one) No Unreleased Dream World Pokemon. Standard rules+use as many items as you want but only one focus sash a team. I use Legal hacks so they are allowed when battling me. My Chat & My Channel

Jun 24th, 2012, 10:18:51 AM	#56
alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair! Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,357	What makes the kyurem forms obviously über? Their base stat total? __________________ Fifth Gen OU RMT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...67#post3383567

Jun 24th, 2012, 10:28:19 AM	#58
alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair! Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,357	And 95 base speed alongside an awful defensIve typing. He still warrants a test at least. Si on gamefaqs did a bunch of calcs for steel types that can tank W-Kyurem's Draco meteors and the list of survivors is bigger than I thought. __________________ Fifth Gen OU RMT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...67#post3383567

Jun 24th, 2012, 11:29:08 AM	#70
Lightning Tiger Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 140	Hail should have at least gotten a 50% defense boost for Ice Types,,, come on game freak... Sand Rush Sandslash any good? __________________ Soul Silver friend code: 0861 5800 2830

Jun 24th, 2012, 9:52:28 AM	#54
RainbowCrash Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 43	I think that now with keldeo and tornadus T and thundurus T facilitating offensive rain drizzle should be banned.The combo ban doesnt go far enough in my opinion The Meta was sinking into bulky offensive but now its going to be like pre thundurus ban b/w If Drizzle does get banned Sand Stall Could be viable with roost poison heal Gliscor but we will have to wait and see

Jun 24th, 2012, 10:23:46 AM	#57
Dr Ciel When I walk these streets, A loaded six string on my back, I play for keeps, 'Cause I might not make it back Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 648 Brooklyn, New York	B Kyurem has base 170 Attack and W Kyurem has base 170 Special Attack.

Jun 24th, 2012, 10:31:31 AM	#59
~~bubbly~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 884 Australia	I'm not convinced Black Kyurem is broken in OU, even though I think the meta will be better off without it. The damage upgrade from Haxorus isn't that significant in terms of KO's, especially now Haxorus got Superpower and Aqua Tail. Also, it isn't hard to revenge when it locks itself into Outrage. EDIT: I really can't see W Kyurem staying, or even being tested. That Draco Meteor backed up by Fire and either Fighting or Ground coverage to hit Jirachi / Heatran / Tyranitar etc...literally nothing can switch in safely, and most special walls risk being easily 2HKO'd if they mispredict (out of the very few which aren't destroyed by DM). Unlike Victini and Darmanitan, it also gets a lot of opportunities to just spam attacks, because its typing flat out beats Water / Grass / Electrics together with it's nice bulk.

Jun 24th, 2012, 10:48:07 AM	#62
CrackinSkulls Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 208 Where the hax demons live	Of all of them i thought that landorus-t would be a possible borderline and btw you clearly havent used a keldeo i think that it is definitely in OU. thundurus might be uber. lando may be bl IMO

Jun 24th, 2012, 11:00:34 AM	#64
Lavos Spawn Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,193 Mentor	Scarf Thundurus-T is really good at beating regular Thundurus-T, it can switch in on Tbolt or Vswitch and revenge with HP Ice. Give that a try. Still wishing it got Lightningrod, though...imagine +1 LO Agility Thundurus-T in rain.

Jun 24th, 2012, 11:23:34 AM	#69
Jets Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 359 "this game sucks"	hail gets nothing.... like always ._.

Jun 24th, 2012, 11:31:10 AM	#71
Dr Ciel When I walk these streets, A loaded six string on my back, I play for keeps, 'Cause I might not make it back Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 648 Brooklyn, New York	Sand Rush Sandslash is surprisingly good. You can run an offensive Swords Dance set with Rapid Spin, or you could go bulky Rapid Spin.

Jun 24th, 2012, 11:36:22 AM	#73
Griff Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 239 New York	BW2 and sand wasn't all bad imo. The Amoonguss Slowbro core works well together in sand and stoutland got superpower. I'm using a sand team right now. __________________ [7/2/12 1:44:44 PM] Thund: i just rub my textbook on my penis"