(Ubers) Ultimate Ubers Offense

Reavelt · Jun 29th, 2012, 2:13:26 AM

Hello Smogon! I've been quietly laddering along on Pokemon Online's own server's Ubers Tier for some time now. I've heard and known that Smogon has the highest level of competitive play in Pokemon and finally, decided to post my own team here.

The Team:
I've always loved all out offense and this team is no exception. After much testing and changing, I feel it's reached the best it can be before White/Black Kyurem make a scene on the Ubers tier. I call it Ultimate Ubers Offense because of the play style; you go completely offensive. Before I quit PO because of college applications, it peaked with a rating of 1700 and sat in the Top 5 of Pokemon Online's Wifi Ubers Ranking. The team relies a lot on bulk to sweep. It's made so that even the counters and checks have a hard time, as most counters to any Pokemon can be 2HKO'd or less by said Pokemon. To use this team successfully, you must know when you can tank hits and set up versus simply attacking and how to play around stall teams with hazards. I'd say the biggest problem I've had is that my prediction is off, which ruins the momentum and ultimately changes what could've been a win to a loss. This team is heavily reliant on momentum, and a wrong move could cost a lot more for this team than for other teams.

At a Glance:
(I don't know how to post pictures of Pokemon on a forum post, so I'll just list them here.)
Deoxys-S
Kyogre
Groudon
Darkrai
Arceus
Mewtwo

In Depth:

Deoxys-S @ Light Clay
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Taunt
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Stealth Rock

Deoxys-S is the fastest Dual Screener available in the game. Dual Screens act as a crutch for the team and is vital to the main strategy: tank hits while setting up and then proceeding for a clean sweep. It seems like a simple strategy, but once Arceus or Mewtwo set up, it's practically game over. Most victories with this team were achieved through Arceus reaching +4 under screens then sweeping. Often, other trainers will expect hazards and switch in a Xatu/Espeon only to see screens set up. The given EVs are so that Deoxys-S can set up screens possibly more than once a game; however, given that Deoxys-S is frail, depending on the Pokemon, Deoxys-S can also be used as a "suicide" lead especially when the opponent has been taunted. Deoxys-S is the default lead; however, based on prediction and the opponent's team preview, the lead is changeable between Groundon/Kyogre/Deoxys-S/Darkrai.

Possible Changes:
I could use Magic Coat on Deoxys-S; however, based on testing, I've found that I enjoy having Stealth Rocks over Coat to rack up more damage consistently.

Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 4 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Water Spout
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Pretty self-explanatory. Kyogre is known as the "King of Ubers" for a reason: it's an absolute beast. Kyogre with Specs will 2HKO all Ferrothorn, Blissey, and Chancey with Water Spout or Hydro Pump (so far as I've encountered). No truly offensive Ubers team is complete with out it. When in doubt, I just Water Spout and something will almost always fall. Many times, people will switch into a wall only to realize that nothing stands against Spec'd weather and STAB'd Spout/Pump. It checks opposing Kyogre, Groudon, and Reshiram and is generally used to reduce the opposing number of Pokemon by at least one on a switch-in. I also tend to switch into either this or Groudon should for a general all-purpose sponge and sweeper. The main problem with both Kyogre and Groudon is when I predict incorrectly as with all Choice'd Pokemon.

Possible Changes:
There's not much to change with Kyogre; just select attacks and wait for something to fall. However, with the advent of Black/White Kyurem, I'm thinking about switching it with White Kyurem for synergy with Groudon and greater flexibility.

Groudon @ Choice Band
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw

Groudon is the physical sponge as Kyogre is the special. However, in comparison it's must harder to use as mindlessly. Instead, I tend to use Groudon specifically as a sponge for certain attackers that my team may have trouble with, such as Zekrom and Arceus. Groudon easily takes care of Arceus, often OHKO or 2HKO depending on the variant and is my main sponge to go to for Normal Arceus. Normal Arceus is hard pressed against Groudon who can easily Earthquake for 80%+ damage, and with SR and possible damage factored in, will KO. Fire Punch is there for predicting and baiting Skarmory switches and Stone Edge Lugia. Earthquake also has the nice perk of being able to OHKO (as far as I've tested, I haven't ran the numbers) all Kyogre I've come up against that switch-in. However, as this Groudon will never outspeed any Lugia, Lugia is a huge problem to deal with whenever I use Groudon. I can also use Groudon as an anti-Tyranitar lead for certain sand teams, but cannot safely do so if they pack a flying-type wall such as Gliscor.

Possible Changes:
Also straightforward. I'm thinking about changing Dragon Claw to Dragon Tail as they're roughly the same given Groudon's EV spread, but I don't want to force a switch into something I'm in a bad position against nor miss on that 95% when I need it to hit.

Darkrai @ Focus Sash
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Dark Void
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot

Darkrai was put in simply for its ability to cause trouble. Dark Void almost always ensures one Pokemon is put to sleep and will become later set-up bait. The sash is to ensure that I will always get at least one Dark Void in a game, but entry hazards and weather often ruin it. As a last ditch effort against Pokemon that have set up, I will send in Darkrai on the faint to take a hit and Dark Void. Darkrai is more of an all pupose counter/check on my team.

Possible Changes:
I've considered using Scarfrai, but I feel that it limits Darkrai's ability to sweep too much as without Focus Blast coverage, Darkrai becomes a lot worse.

Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Extremespeed
- Earthquake
- Shadow Claw

The MVP of the team without question, Arceus is God for a reason. After Dual Screens, I try and get Arceus in as soon as possible to set up. Any Pokemon that doesn't pack Toxic, Will-o-wisp, or have the ability to significantly do damage will end up being set up on. Even Scarf Ogre is a relatively safe Pokemon to set up on. Almost always, especially with screens up, it's best to have Arceus set up two Swords Dance; with that considerable bulk and only 120 base Atk I've found that being slightly greedier is better than being conservative most of the time. Virtually everything is OHKO or 2HKO by Arceus after it sets up. Assuming it has one Swords Dance up already, it can even set up one more time on Ferrothorn, who Protects and Leech Seeds and can stall for some damage but is ultimately 2HKO'd by a +4 Earthquake. Giratina-O almost always falls to Shadow Claw, and the same can be said about Giratina (however, Giratina, even after taking significant damage, will often Will-o-wisp and or Dragon Tail, which then does indeed become a problem, but it's health is generally reduced enough that it's easily taken out by another Pokemon after). The only Pokemon that Arceus is truly afraid of is Lugia for it's walling. Lugia's ability to wall, status, and Whirlwind make it the ultimate bane of this Arceus. However, it's checked by Darkrai and Kyogre and won't come out without damage after a +4 Shadow Claw.

Possible Changes:
I've thought about changing Shadow Claw to Outrage to better hit Giratina, but it locks me in and I become setup bait for Arceus-Steel. It also does worse against Lugia.

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Calm Mind
- Fire Blast
- Psystrike
- Aura Sphere

Mewtwo is the other possible but lesser MVP of the team. Like the rest of the team, Mewtwo is also straightforward; come in when you can under Dual Screens, set up, and sweep. The moveset, however, is a change on the Aura Sphere/Ice Beam combo. Fire Blast actually offers better coverage than Ice Beam. With Fire Blast, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and even (non-specially defensive assuming Mewtwo has a CM under its belt and sun) Groudon are OHKO'd. Lugia is seemingly hit worse, but Fire Blast under sun (which is where my own Groudon comes in) serves the same purpose but better and 2HKOs. Mewtwo would be the MVP of the team if not for how much less bulky it is compared to Arceus. It sweeps more Pokemon but can't last as long, especially against Scarfed Pokemon, which Arceus ignores with its priority.

Possible Changes:
I could use Life Orb instead of Leftovers, but with Mewtwo as frail as it is, I find that keeping Mewtwo alive is better than having it hit hard and die, especially since it can set up anyways. I could also switch to Ice Beam, but for the reasons mentioned above, I find that Fire Blast is ultimately better.

calze6 · Jun 29th, 2012, 7:26:04 AM

Regardless of hyper offense or whatnot, every team srsly benefits from a dragon resist and a kyogre counter. The problem is, u don't need that much offense and deo isn't gonna be able to set up screens any more than once. Anything that sets up once on u = u die, including SD arceus (all SD arceus are faster than urs). Hyper offense does not mean 6 sweepers, rebuild your team so that it can deal with some common threats.

Reavelt · Jun 30th, 2012, 6:43:44 AM

The key point is simply that my team will almost certainly be the one to set up. I have confirmed this through hundreds of battles. Furthermore, as I have said, Groudon is a check to all Arceus. Not only do dual screens soften Arceus, Groudon does 80% to the general speedier variant, which is much more commonly seen.

This strategy isn't something I'm spouting out without significant testing;

I peaked at a rating of 1700 in Wifi Ubers tier after a year of testing and changing up the team.

While I won't disagree that the team itself looks amateur, I will stand for the fact that the team works; even if it is in PO server, the top players of any tier still know what they're doing and while I may not be quite intelligent enough to explain how, the only real problem my team has is against Lugia. Remember, this is after HUNDREDS of battles.

Jerp · Jun 30th, 2012, 1:07:14 PM

Interesting team... I'm just gonna say that the team itself lacks offensive synergy, and as a result, you could be swept relatively easily. Doexys-A tears through half your team, and Scarf Palkia does the rest. On top of that, you don't have any answer to arceus ghost, and your fire/water type moves lose power based on the clashing weathers you have up. On top of that, the team lacks a revenge killer. I know what I'm talking about, I ran Rain Hyper Offense and peaked at #7 on PO I'm inclined to agree with calze6 on this one...

Reavelt · Jul 1st, 2012, 5:13:30 AM

1. Deoxys-A does not tear through half my team. The HP EVs keep my Pokemon alive and make them OHKO or 2HKO on band back. Not to mention I have dual screens up and priority on Arceus. Most Deoxys-A I've faced don't do much at all.

2. Clashing weather makes no sense. Kyogre and Groudon CHANGE the weather. The only Pokemon affected by this change in weather is Mewtwo, who packs Fire Blast.

3. Scarf Palkia is the least of my worries. Every Scarfed or non-scarfed Palkia I've faced has done little to nothing; Arceus takes hits, sets up SD and then sweeps, especially under screens.

4. The team moves so fast I don't have a need to revenge kill. Arceus can Exspeed if I really need it and Mewtwo can come in and finish off a weakened Pokemon. In fact, most of the time, I just either set up screens again and rinse and repeat or just set up.

5. Arceus-Ghost is indeed a "problem" in that I don't have any immediate answers in the form of super effective coverage. However, have you considered that both Kyogre and Groudon OHKO/2HKO most variants with Earthquake/Hydro Pump/Water Spout? I have, and it's worked. Ever wonder what Darkrai could be used for?

6. I ran this team and peaked at #3 on PO mere points behind the #1 and #2 at the time; I know what I'm talking about at least just as much as you do, if not more.

calze6 · Jul 1st, 2012, 5:21:15 AM

well, if u don't listen to any of the advise given, I really don't understand what is the point of posting this up...

Reavelt · Jul 1st, 2012, 9:26:16 PM

Well, I guess I understand where you guys are coming from and I appreciate the help, but through my own experience I don't quite think what you've said is true I guess.

Sorry if I sounded a bit aggressive in my counter argument. My apologies.

**Furai** · Jul 5th, 2012, 8:08:10 AM

Hey there Reavelt, as I promised, here's my rate!

Your team is awfully Dragon Dance Rayquaza weak. Extreme Killer could also have an easy ride on your time as well, as Groudon won't be able to tank a lot of hits. Reshiram could also have a field run over your team, as if it packs Choice Scarf nothing outspeeds it. There is a quick fix to defeat them, and that is using Choice Scarf Terrakion over Groudon:

Terrakion

Terrakion outspeeds +1 Rayquaza and OHKOs with Stone Edge easily. Arceus needs to be weakened a bit, but that's nothing for your team. Reshiram is also outsped and OHKOed. This set also gives you a solid check for Darkrai, as it can come in on a Dark Pulse, grab the attack boost, and OHKO with Close Combat. X-Scissor can be used to hit Mewtwo or Darkrai if you don't want to lower your defenses, whereas Rock Slide can be used if you don't want to risk the miss. Earthquake is pretty much the same like Rock Slide, it's a backup move if you don't want to lower your defenses against Pokemon like Steel Arceus, Dialga, and Heatran.

As of now, your team is extremely weak to opposing Kyogre. It can come in on Terrakion, Darkrai, or a Choice-locked Kyogre, and wreak havoc. With BW2 out, there is a quick fix for this too: Soul Dew Latias. Since she is also a Calm Mind user, and also a Psychic-type, I think it would be the best to give up on Mewtwo in favor of her.

Latias

Latias is probably the best Kyogre counter out there with Soul Dew. It's pretty much like a Calm Mind boost as you switch in. The EVs allow Latias to outspeed everything she can, including Terrakion and Garchomp, and OHKO Palkia with Dragon Pulse without Stealth Rock. Roost provides reliable recovery, which is pretty much a must, and Dragon Pulse is an extremely solid STAB. The choice between Psyshock and Thunder is up to you; Psyshock gets past Ho-Oh and the pink blobs, while Thunder hits Kyogre and Water Arceus harder than Dragon Pulse. Refresh or Substitute can also be good options in the last slot to block status.

Next, your Darkrai's item, Focus Sash, is extremely redundant in my opinion. Deoxys-S will not be able to keep hazards off your field the entire game, making Focus Sash useless. Therefore, I suggest Life Orb instead, to hit as hard as possible. Arceus should also use Lum Berry over Leftovers, as it allows it to set up on status inflicting Pokemon, especially Giratina.

tl;dr

That's it, good luck!

albinorhino · Aug 10th, 2012, 2:14:16 PM

well if you are successful in setting up behind screens every game then great, heres some possible changes. Double dance groudon. he RAPES. seriously, ive had him on all my teams and hes just amazing, sd rp eq and either sedge or sclaw, with a lum or rawst berry to stop the burns he is just great. Also you might want to change to life orb mewtwo, thats what i use and he doesnt require any set up and 2hkos the whole metagame i think besides other mewtwo and maybe some really bulky arceus forms. ice beam psystrike aura sphere flamethrower gives the best coverage imo. You might want to switch darkrai for a wall or tank like lugia or giratina or scarf palkia or specially defensive palkia, just to give your team some defensive bulk. hope this helped

CrackinSkulls · Aug 11th, 2012, 12:04:09 PM

First off I would like to say that you should take the advice of the people nice enough to rate your team because they have a different take on your team. Second you should not act like you are better than everyone here because chances are that you aren't. Lastly stop using your ladder peak as an excuse for bluntly snuffing other people suggestions. The PO ladder has a reputation for not being as competitive as other ladders. Your peak is nothing amazing. That said I want you to rethink your team entirely because frankly it is no the greatest one out there. I am going to give you a rate and I want you to take it seriously and wake up from the illusion that your team is the best out there.

Threats

Changes

Now I want to help you out on this team so I am going to try to give you a nudge in the right direction. First off the team needs a purpose, currently I am seeing the top 10 usage list slapped together and Dual Screened. From what I gather the whole Specs Ogre thing seems to be the purpose of the team, with some dual weather thrown in the mix. You also seem fond with making your team as bulky as possible while still hitting hard. These are key signs of a Thunder Wave team. Acommadating for Thunder Wave will make this team far better in my opinion.

The first thing i suggest is a new set on Groudon. Groudon is a great user of Thunder Wave because of the pokemon he attracts. There are two main Thunder Wave sets that will benefit this team. One is support Groudon, which i'm sure you are familiar with and the other one is ParaDancer. It synergises well with Kyogre because he can paralyze he attracts fast special attackers like anything. These include but are not limited to: Scarf Kyogre, Arceus-Grass, Lugia, Ho-oh, Shaymin-S, Mewtwo even Darkrai. All of them are met with a Thunder Wave and can be finished off by the big blue whale. The great thing about ParaDancer is that he can come in late game and SD up to finish off what he started if nobody else is up to the task. ParaDancer Groudon helps structure your team and gives it a more defining purpose at the cost of a powerful straight up Physical Attacker.

===>

OR

My last suggestion will be Wish support. Replacing Deoxys-S with either a Chansey or Specially Defensive Jirachi can pass wishes to (notably) Groudon and Kyogre, the former because it has no other reliable recovery and the latter because it will power up Water Spout. They also help with the whole Draco problem. Not only that, while they can't set up Dual Screens they both are very reliable ways to set up Stealth Rock because of the amount of stuff they can come in on.

These changes are supposed to give you a nudge into a better direction to take the team so I wish you luck on that.

Where I would take the team from here

Summary

The Sets

Ok well that is what i have to say about the team. Now I do not think that you have adopted the right attitude towards your raters. You are brashly disregarding there posts. Don't make statements like "I know what I'm talking about at least just as much as you do, if not more." It comes across as rude and it makes us less likely to rate. Try to be more polite and actually take peoples suggestions into consideration; try them out for a few matches. You will be greatly surprised by the amount of thought that goes into these rates and if you took the time to try them out you may find them to actually better your "perfect" team.

Now you said you were having trouble with your thread posting. To post images simply wrap the image URL in [IMG][/IMG] tags. head here for more tags and codes.

Another thing, when you were describing Arceus' capabilities you mentioned him being at +4 for all your calculations. Please avoid this, in fact when you are referring to set up sweepers it is generally better to assume only 1 turn of set up. Suitable exception would have been, for example, "SD Arceus w/ lum berry vs a Giratina deals 59.92% - 70.63% to it with Shadow Claw" we can understand this because the Giratina would go for Will-O-Wisp only for Arceus to be cured while it go the 2nd SD.

Anyway that is basically all i have to say although i may have forgotten a few things because it is really late here :P. Hope i could help and good luck. Cya

Jun 30th, 2012, 1:07:14 PM	#4
Jerp Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 51	Interesting team... I'm just gonna say that the team itself lacks offensive synergy, and as a result, you could be swept relatively easily. Doexys-A tears through half your team, and Scarf Palkia does the rest. On top of that, you don't have any answer to arceus ghost, and your fire/water type moves lose power based on the clashing weathers you have up. On top of that, the team lacks a revenge killer. I know what I'm talking about, I ran Rain Hyper Offense and peaked at #7 on PO I'm inclined to agree with calze6 on this one... __________________ "There Is No Good, There Is No Bad. Just Perspective and Opinion"

Jul 1st, 2012, 5:21:15 AM	#6
calze6 Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 548	well, if u don't listen to any of the advise given, I really don't understand what is the point of posting this up... __________________ Computer back up! The end of gyara... Trickroom: yeah Gyarados isn't that great in Ubers. Try Jellicent maybe, since it worked out great for me. Gyarados kinda lacks recovery and bad stats which is horrible.

Jul 5th, 2012, 8:08:10 AM	#8
Furai standing in the eye of the hurricane Moderator Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,090	Hey there Reavelt, as I promised, here's my rate! Your team is awfully Dragon Dance Rayquaza weak. Extreme Killer could also have an easy ride on your time as well, as Groudon won't be able to tank a lot of hits. Reshiram could also have a field run over your team, as if it packs Choice Scarf nothing outspeeds it. There is a quick fix to defeat them, and that is using Choice Scarf Terrakion over Groudon: Terrakion Terrakion @ Choice Scarf Trait: Justified EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Close Combat - Stone Edge - X-Scissor / Rock Slide - Earthquake Terrakion outspeeds +1 Rayquaza and OHKOs with Stone Edge easily. Arceus needs to be weakened a bit, but that's nothing for your team. Reshiram is also outsped and OHKOed. This set also gives you a solid check for Darkrai, as it can come in on a Dark Pulse, grab the attack boost, and OHKO with Close Combat. X-Scissor can be used to hit Mewtwo or Darkrai if you don't want to lower your defenses, whereas Rock Slide can be used if you don't want to risk the miss. Earthquake is pretty much the same like Rock Slide, it's a backup move if you don't want to lower your defenses against Pokemon like Steel Arceus, Dialga, and Heatran. As of now, your team is extremely weak to opposing Kyogre. It can come in on Terrakion, Darkrai, or a Choice-locked Kyogre, and wreak havoc. With BW2 out, there is a quick fix for this too: Soul Dew Latias. Since she is also a Calm Mind user, and also a Psychic-type, I think it would be the best to give up on Mewtwo in favor of her. Latias Latias @ Soul Dew Trait: Levitate EVs: 52 HP / 204 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Calm Mind - Roost - Dragon Pulse - Psyshock / Thunder Latias is probably the best Kyogre counter out there with Soul Dew. It's pretty much like a Calm Mind boost as you switch in. The EVs allow Latias to outspeed everything she can, including Terrakion and Garchomp, and OHKO Palkia with Dragon Pulse without Stealth Rock. Roost provides reliable recovery, which is pretty much a must, and Dragon Pulse is an extremely solid STAB. The choice between Psyshock and Thunder is up to you; Psyshock gets past Ho-Oh and the pink blobs, while Thunder hits Kyogre and Water Arceus harder than Dragon Pulse. Refresh or Substitute can also be good options in the last slot to block status. Next, your Darkrai's item, Focus Sash, is extremely redundant in my opinion. Deoxys-S will not be able to keep hazards off your field the entire game, making Focus Sash useless. Therefore, I suggest Life Orb instead, to hit as hard as possible. Arceus should also use Lum Berry over Leftovers, as it allows it to set up on status inflicting Pokemon, especially Giratina. tl;dr Choice Scarf Terrakion > Groudon Soul Dew Latias > Mewtwo Life Orb > Focus Sash on Darkrai Lum Berry > Leftovers on Arceus That's it, good luck! __________________ *#gohard* \| Wolfpack (Ubers RMT)

Aug 10th, 2012, 2:14:16 PM	#9
albinorhino Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 10	well if you are successful in setting up behind screens every game then great, heres some possible changes. Double dance groudon. he RAPES. seriously, ive had him on all my teams and hes just amazing, sd rp eq and either sedge or sclaw, with a lum or rawst berry to stop the burns he is just great. Also you might want to change to life orb mewtwo, thats what i use and he doesnt require any set up and 2hkos the whole metagame i think besides other mewtwo and maybe some really bulky arceus forms. ice beam psystrike aura sphere flamethrower gives the best coverage imo. You might want to switch darkrai for a wall or tank like lugia or giratina or scarf palkia or specially defensive palkia, just to give your team some defensive bulk. hope this helped __________________ please rmt http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3470799

Aug 11th, 2012, 12:04:09 PM	#10
CrackinSkulls Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 208 Where the hax demons live	First off I would like to say that you should take the advice of the people nice enough to rate your team because they have a different take on your team. Second you should not act like you are better than everyone here because chances are that you aren't. Lastly stop using your ladder peak as an excuse for bluntly snuffing other people suggestions. The PO ladder has a reputation for not being as competitive as other ladders. Your peak is nothing amazing. That said I want you to rethink your team entirely because frankly it is no the greatest one out there. I am going to give you a rate and I want you to take it seriously and wake up from the illusion that your team is the best out there. Threats First off your team has no defense whatsoever. I am literally putting the item Choice Scarf as a standout threat to you because your entire team has almost nothing to stop it. When I am up against a teams like this I don't even bother planning out a sweep. I just whip out my scarf Kyurem-W at any opportunity i can find, hell i'll even sack 'mons just to press the Draco Metoer button one more time with the peace of knowing something is going to get nuked. Your only remote defense against it are dual screens which aren't going to give you a great deal of protection throuout the match. to give you an idea of its effectiveness I'll post some damage calculations. 252 SpAtk Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Kyogre: 51.98% - 61.14% Draco is pretty much going to strip off any power from Water Spout 252 SpAtk Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Groudon: 75.74% - 89.36% 2 hits to KO Good luck with Groudon :/ 252 SpAtk Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Darkrai: 108.9% - 128.47% Guaranteed OHKO 252 SpAtk Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Mewtwo: 86.69% - 102.27% Guaranteed 2HKO and a 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252 SpAtk Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Arceus: 62.83% - 74.08% 2 hits to KO This is just to give you an idea of how weak your team actually is. I don't just mean Kyurem-W by the way. In fact any scarfer can basically spam their Dragon STABs to KO your guys one by one. The most dangerous is actually probably Palkia because it has an extemely powerful STAB in Spacial Rend that can be spammed over an over because it has no SAtk drop. What I am trying to say is that literally any scarfed Dragon (a good portion of the meta) can just press one button repeatedly to beat you. I am not even going to bother being more specific i literally mean every Dragon type scarfer. On to your second threat, this one is less worrisome than the first one because 90% of HO teams these days are weak to it. Excadrill and sand in general will really be a bitch, luckily you do have 2 weather inducers but both of them don't run max speed so he can EQ you anyway. Under sand he will KO your whole team, even Arceus won't revenge it because of his resistance to E-Speed. 252 +2 Atk Life Orb Excadrill (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252 HP/0 Def Groudon: 88.61% - 104.7% 31.25% chance to OHKO 252 +2 Atk Life Orb Excadrill (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252 HP/0 Def Kyogre: 129.95% - 152.97% Guaranteed OHKO Both your weather inducers are not going to be able to take on Adamant LO Excadrill even Jolly Air Balloons 'Drill hits like a truck: 252 +2 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs 252 HP/0 Def Kyogre: 90.84% - 107.18% 43.75% chance to OHKO guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock 252 +2 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs 252 HP/0 Def Groudon: 62.38% - 73.51% 2 hits to KO Kyogre won't even be able to take the hit from a Jolly Balloons 'Drill and Groudon can barely stomach it. After that in the sand your entire team is outsped and OHKO'd by a +2 Excadrill and you literally have nothing you can touch it with. While this is the tip of the ice-berg I would like to point out another top tier threat that hits you hard, Mewtwo. CM Mewtwo will KO both your weather inducers and sweep you hard. 252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Mewtwo Ice Beam vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Groudon: 123.76% - 146.04% Guaranteed OHKO 252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Mewtwo Psystrike vs 252 HP/0 Def Kyogre: 98.02% - 115.1% 87.5% chance to OHKO After your weather inducers are gone your opponent will have a massive advantage over you. Mewtwo can sweep your team from there, especially seeing as he can actually tank an unboosted Extremespeed. 252 Atk Arceus (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed vs 4 HP/0 Def Mewtwo: 41.81% - 49.44% 3 hits to KO and then KO back with Aura Sphere 252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Mewtwo Aura Sphere vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Arceus: 97.64% - 114.96% 87.5% chance to OHKO Your Darkrai is not a reliable check to it at all because Focus Sash is almost exclusive to Darkrai leads and will not last through the match. Other notable threats are stall because all of your pokemon will be slowly worn down by while being unable to do crack there defenses.That said Darkrai does majorly mitigate this weakness all stall teams should have an answer to him. Changes Now I want to help you out on this team so I am going to try to give you a nudge in the right direction. First off the team needs a purpose, currently I am seeing the top 10 usage list slapped together and Dual Screened. From what I gather the whole Specs Ogre thing seems to be the purpose of the team, with some dual weather thrown in the mix. You also seem fond with making your team as bulky as possible while still hitting hard. These are key signs of a Thunder Wave team. Acommadating for Thunder Wave will make this team far better in my opinion. The first thing i suggest is a new set on Groudon. Groudon is a great user of Thunder Wave because of the pokemon he attracts. There are two main Thunder Wave sets that will benefit this team. One is support Groudon, which i'm sure you are familiar with and the other one is ParaDancer. It synergises well with Kyogre because he can paralyze he attracts fast special attackers like anything. These include but are not limited to: Scarf Kyogre, Arceus-Grass, Lugia, Ho-oh, Shaymin-S, Mewtwo even Darkrai. All of them are met with a Thunder Wave and can be finished off by the big blue whale. The great thing about ParaDancer is that he can come in late game and SD up to finish off what he started if nobody else is up to the task. ParaDancer Groudon helps structure your team and gives it a more defining purpose at the cost of a powerful straight up Physical Attacker. ===> OR My last suggestion will be Wish support. Replacing Deoxys-S with either a Chansey or Specially Defensive Jirachi can pass wishes to (notably) Groudon and Kyogre, the former because it has no other reliable recovery and the latter because it will power up Water Spout. They also help with the whole Draco problem. Not only that, while they can't set up Dual Screens they both are very reliable ways to set up Stealth Rock because of the amount of stuff they can come in on. These changes are supposed to give you a nudge into a better direction to take the team so I wish you luck on that. Where I would take the team from here In the previous section I gave you some small changes to take the team in another direction. While that completes my contribution within the jurasdiction of a rate this part is for you in case you are struggling from there. This is basically where i would take the team. I am going to keep it brief but here goes. The first thing I would do is slap a Gira-O on there because not only does it have great synergy with the team it can also help out on your weaknesses such as Excadrill by burning and phazing it or Mewtwo because Shadow Sneak can pick it off well. He also loves paralysis where he can fire off his explosive moves without worrying about tanking the hit. He would make a nice fit with great synergy all round. He would most likely replace Mewtwo as it seems to contribute the least to your team and its presence seems slightly redundant. Summary So to sum up: ParaDancer Groudon>Choice Band Groudon Pros: Creates a theme. Synergyses better. Add structure to you team. Cons: You lose the raw power of CB Jirachi or Chansey>Deoxys-S Pros: You get some bulk to your team. More T-Wave users. Better synergy. Cons: You lose out on Dual Screens. You lose out on he base 180 Speed. You no longer get the super fast taunt. Personal Advice: Giratina-O>Mewtwo Pros: Better synergy. Follows the aformentioned theme. Checks a lot of threats. Cons: You lose out on Mewtwo's CM Sweeping ability. The Sets Groudon @ Choice Band Ability: Drought EVs: 252 HP / 200 Atk / 108 Def Nature: Adamant - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Thunder Wave - Swords Dance Chansey @ Eviolite Ability: Natural Cure EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef Nature: Bold - Wish - Softboiled/ Stealth Rock - Thunder Wave - Heal Bell/ Stealth Rock Jirachi @ Leftovers Ability: Serene Grace EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef Nature: Careful - Wish - Iron Head - Protect/ U-Turn - Body Slam/ Thunder Wave Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb Ability: Levitate EVs: 208 HP / 60 Atk / 188 Def / 44 SAtk / 8 Spd Nature: Naughty/ Adamant - Will-O-Wisp - Shadow Sneak - Dragon Tail - Draco Meteor/ Hidden Power [FIRE]/ Earthquake NOTE: The 44 in SAtk can be moved into SDef or Atk if you go all physical. The same applies for Naughty/ Adamant Ok well that is what i have to say about the team. Now I do not think that you have adopted the right attitude towards your raters. You are brashly disregarding there posts. Don't make statements like "I know what I'm talking about at least just as much as you do, if not more." It comes across as rude and it makes us less likely to rate. Try to be more polite and actually take peoples suggestions into consideration; try them out for a few matches. You will be greatly surprised by the amount of thought that goes into these rates and if you took the time to try them out you may find them to actually better your "perfect" team. Now you said you were having trouble with your thread posting. To post images simply wrap the image URL in [IMG][/IMG] tags. head here for more tags and codes. Another thing, when you were describing Arceus' capabilities you mentioned him being at +4 for all your calculations. Please avoid this, in fact when you are referring to set up sweepers it is generally better to assume only 1 turn of set up. Suitable exception would have been, for example, "SD Arceus w/ lum berry vs a Giratina deals 59.92% - 70.63% to it with Shadow Claw" we can understand this because the Giratina would go for Will-O-Wisp only for Arceus to be cured while it go the 2nd SD. Anyway that is basically all i have to say although i may have forgotten a few things because it is really late here :P. Hope i could help and good luck. Cya __________________ VM me for an OU or Ubers rate! Check out my team(s): A Day at the Beach(Ubers) The time has come to battle the Elite 4! Challenge here

Jun 29th, 2012, 2:13:26 AM	#1
Reavelt Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 4	Ultimate Ubers Offense Hello Smogon! I've been quietly laddering along on Pokemon Online's own server's Ubers Tier for some time now. I've heard and known that Smogon has the highest level of competitive play in Pokemon and finally, decided to post my own team here. The Team: I've always loved all out offense and this team is no exception. After much testing and changing, I feel it's reached the best it can be before White/Black Kyurem make a scene on the Ubers tier. I call it Ultimate Ubers Offense because of the play style; you go completely offensive. Before I quit PO because of college applications, it peaked with a rating of 1700 and sat in the Top 5 of Pokemon Online's Wifi Ubers Ranking. The team relies a lot on bulk to sweep. It's made so that even the counters and checks have a hard time, as most counters to any Pokemon can be 2HKO'd or less by said Pokemon. To use this team successfully, you must know when you can tank hits and set up versus simply attacking and how to play around stall teams with hazards. I'd say the biggest problem I've had is that my prediction is off, which ruins the momentum and ultimately changes what could've been a win to a loss. This team is heavily reliant on momentum, and a wrong move could cost a lot more for this team than for other teams. At a Glance: (I don't know how to post pictures of Pokemon on a forum post, so I'll just list them here.) Deoxys-S Kyogre Groudon Darkrai Arceus Mewtwo In Depth: Deoxys-S @ Light Clay Ability: Pressure EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe Nature: Timid - Taunt - Light Screen - Reflect - Stealth Rock Deoxys-S is the fastest Dual Screener available in the game. Dual Screens act as a crutch for the team and is vital to the main strategy: tank hits while setting up and then proceeding for a clean sweep. It seems like a simple strategy, but once Arceus or Mewtwo set up, it's practically game over. Most victories with this team were achieved through Arceus reaching +4 under screens then sweeping. Often, other trainers will expect hazards and switch in a Xatu/Espeon only to see screens set up. The given EVs are so that Deoxys-S can set up screens possibly more than once a game; however, given that Deoxys-S is frail, depending on the Pokemon, Deoxys-S can also be used as a "suicide" lead especially when the opponent has been taunted. Deoxys-S is the default lead; however, based on prediction and the opponent's team preview, the lead is changeable between Groundon/Kyogre/Deoxys-S/Darkrai. Possible Changes: I could use Magic Coat on Deoxys-S; however, based on testing, I've found that I enjoy having Stealth Rocks over Coat to rack up more damage consistently. Kyogre @ Choice Specs Ability: Drizzle EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 4 Spe Nature: Modest - Water Spout - Hydro Pump - Ice Beam - Thunder Pretty self-explanatory. Kyogre is known as the "King of Ubers" for a reason: it's an absolute beast. Kyogre with Specs will 2HKO all Ferrothorn, Blissey, and Chancey with Water Spout or Hydro Pump (so far as I've encountered). No truly offensive Ubers team is complete with out it. When in doubt, I just Water Spout and something will almost always fall. Many times, people will switch into a wall only to realize that nothing stands against Spec'd weather and STAB'd Spout/Pump. It checks opposing Kyogre, Groudon, and Reshiram and is generally used to reduce the opposing number of Pokemon by at least one on a switch-in. I also tend to switch into either this or Groudon should for a general all-purpose sponge and sweeper. The main problem with both Kyogre and Groudon is when I predict incorrectly as with all Choice'd Pokemon. Possible Changes: There's not much to change with Kyogre; just select attacks and wait for something to fall. However, with the advent of Black/White Kyurem, I'm thinking about switching it with White Kyurem for synergy with Groudon and greater flexibility. Groudon @ Choice Band Ability: Drought EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Nature: Adamant - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Fire Punch - Dragon Claw Groudon is the physical sponge as Kyogre is the special. However, in comparison it's must harder to use as mindlessly. Instead, I tend to use Groudon specifically as a sponge for certain attackers that my team may have trouble with, such as Zekrom and Arceus. Groudon easily takes care of Arceus, often OHKO or 2HKO depending on the variant and is my main sponge to go to for Normal Arceus. Normal Arceus is hard pressed against Groudon who can easily Earthquake for 80%+ damage, and with SR and possible damage factored in, will KO. Fire Punch is there for predicting and baiting Skarmory switches and Stone Edge Lugia. Earthquake also has the nice perk of being able to OHKO (as far as I've tested, I haven't ran the numbers) all Kyogre I've come up against that switch-in. However, as this Groudon will never outspeed any Lugia, Lugia is a huge problem to deal with whenever I use Groudon. I can also use Groudon as an anti-Tyranitar lead for certain sand teams, but cannot safely do so if they pack a flying-type wall such as Gliscor. Possible Changes: Also straightforward. I'm thinking about changing Dragon Claw to Dragon Tail as they're roughly the same given Groudon's EV spread, but I don't want to force a switch into something I'm in a bad position against nor miss on that 95% when I need it to hit. Darkrai @ Focus Sash Ability: Bad Dreams EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe Nature: Timid - Dark Void - Dark Pulse - Focus Blast - Nasty Plot Darkrai was put in simply for its ability to cause trouble. Dark Void almost always ensures one Pokemon is put to sleep and will become later set-up bait. The sash is to ensure that I will always get at least one Dark Void in a game, but entry hazards and weather often ruin it. As a last ditch effort against Pokemon that have set up, I will send in Darkrai on the faint to take a hit and Dark Void. Darkrai is more of an all pupose counter/check on my team. Possible Changes: I've considered using Scarfrai, but I feel that it limits Darkrai's ability to sweep too much as without Focus Blast coverage, Darkrai becomes a lot worse. Arceus @ Leftovers Ability: Multitype EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Nature: Adamant - Swords Dance - Extremespeed - Earthquake - Shadow Claw The MVP of the team without question, Arceus is God for a reason. After Dual Screens, I try and get Arceus in as soon as possible to set up. Any Pokemon that doesn't pack Toxic, Will-o-wisp, or have the ability to significantly do damage will end up being set up on. Even Scarf Ogre is a relatively safe Pokemon to set up on. Almost always, especially with screens up, it's best to have Arceus set up two Swords Dance; with that considerable bulk and only 120 base Atk I've found that being slightly greedier is better than being conservative most of the time. Virtually everything is OHKO or 2HKO by Arceus after it sets up. Assuming it has one Swords Dance up already, it can even set up one more time on Ferrothorn, who Protects and Leech Seeds and can stall for some damage but is ultimately 2HKO'd by a +4 Earthquake. Giratina-O almost always falls to Shadow Claw, and the same can be said about Giratina (however, Giratina, even after taking significant damage, will often Will-o-wisp and or Dragon Tail, which then does indeed become a problem, but it's health is generally reduced enough that it's easily taken out by another Pokemon after). The only Pokemon that Arceus is truly afraid of is Lugia for it's walling. Lugia's ability to wall, status, and Whirlwind make it the ultimate bane of this Arceus. However, it's checked by Darkrai and Kyogre and won't come out without damage after a +4 Shadow Claw. Possible Changes: I've thought about changing Shadow Claw to Outrage to better hit Giratina, but it locks me in and I become setup bait for Arceus-Steel. It also does worse against Lugia. Mewtwo @ Leftovers Ability: Pressure EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe Nature: Timid - Calm Mind - Fire Blast - Psystrike - Aura Sphere Mewtwo is the other possible but lesser MVP of the team. Like the rest of the team, Mewtwo is also straightforward; come in when you can under Dual Screens, set up, and sweep. The moveset, however, is a change on the Aura Sphere/Ice Beam combo. Fire Blast actually offers better coverage than Ice Beam. With Fire Blast, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and even (non-specially defensive assuming Mewtwo has a CM under its belt and sun) Groudon are OHKO'd. Lugia is seemingly hit worse, but Fire Blast under sun (which is where my own Groudon comes in) serves the same purpose but better and 2HKOs. Mewtwo would be the MVP of the team if not for how much less bulky it is compared to Arceus. It sweeps more Pokemon but can't last as long, especially against Scarfed Pokemon, which Arceus ignores with its priority. Possible Changes: I could use Life Orb instead of Leftovers, but with Mewtwo as frail as it is, I find that keeping Mewtwo alive is better than having it hit hard and die, especially since it can set up anyways. I could also switch to Ice Beam, but for the reasons mentioned above, I find that Fire Blast is ultimately better. Last edited by Reavelt; Jun 29th, 2012 at 3:33:43 AM.

Jun 29th, 2012, 7:26:04 AM	#2
calze6 Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 548	Regardless of hyper offense or whatnot, every team srsly benefits from a dragon resist and a kyogre counter. The problem is, u don't need that much offense and deo isn't gonna be able to set up screens any more than once. Anything that sets up once on u = u die, including SD arceus (all SD arceus are faster than urs). Hyper offense does not mean 6 sweepers, rebuild your team so that it can deal with some common threats. __________________ Computer back up! The end of gyara... Trickroom: yeah Gyarados isn't that great in Ubers. Try Jellicent maybe, since it worked out great for me. Gyarados kinda lacks recovery and bad stats which is horrible.

Jun 30th, 2012, 6:43:44 AM	#3
Reavelt Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 4	The key point is simply that my team will almost certainly be the one to set up. I have confirmed this through hundreds of battles. Furthermore, as I have said, Groudon is a check to all Arceus. Not only do dual screens soften Arceus, Groudon does 80% to the general speedier variant, which is much more commonly seen. This strategy isn't something I'm spouting out without significant testing; I peaked at a rating of 1700 in Wifi Ubers tier after a year of testing and changing up the team. While I won't disagree that the team itself looks amateur, I will stand for the fact that the team works; even if it is in PO server, the top players of any tier still know what they're doing and while I may not be quite intelligent enough to explain how, the only real problem my team has is against Lugia. Remember, this is after HUNDREDS of battles.

Jul 1st, 2012, 5:13:30 AM	#5
Reavelt Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 4	1. Deoxys-A does not tear through half my team. The HP EVs keep my Pokemon alive and make them OHKO or 2HKO on band back. Not to mention I have dual screens up and priority on Arceus. Most Deoxys-A I've faced don't do much at all. 2. Clashing weather makes no sense. Kyogre and Groudon CHANGE the weather. The only Pokemon affected by this change in weather is Mewtwo, who packs Fire Blast. 3. Scarf Palkia is the least of my worries. Every Scarfed or non-scarfed Palkia I've faced has done little to nothing; Arceus takes hits, sets up SD and then sweeps, especially under screens. 4. The team moves so fast I don't have a need to revenge kill. Arceus can Exspeed if I really need it and Mewtwo can come in and finish off a weakened Pokemon. In fact, most of the time, I just either set up screens again and rinse and repeat or just set up. 5. Arceus-Ghost is indeed a "problem" in that I don't have any immediate answers in the form of super effective coverage. However, have you considered that both Kyogre and Groudon OHKO/2HKO most variants with Earthquake/Hydro Pump/Water Spout? I have, and it's worked. Ever wonder what Darkrai could be used for? 6. I ran this team and peaked at #3 on PO mere points behind the #1 and #2 at the time; I know what I'm talking about at least just as much as you do, if not more.

Jul 1st, 2012, 9:26:16 PM	#7
Reavelt Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 4	Well, I guess I understand where you guys are coming from and I appreciate the help, but through my own experience I don't quite think what you've said is true I guess. Sorry if I sounded a bit aggressive in my counter argument. My apologies.