np: UU Stage 6 - No Surprises

[jamashawalker]

Originally Posted by Fat Pokemazter

I see three moves there. Adding Superpower doesn't seem like that bad of an idea. When Chansey drops, it'll be handy for it to already be using it anyways, no? It's kinda useful for Snorlax too.

Honestly, what's Aqua Tail actually hitting on this thing? Hippopotas? Gligar? Opposing Rhyperior? Stone Edge'll do more to Gligar anyways because it's a neutral hit and STAB, Hippopotas is just goddamn bulky anyways, and wont be used seeing that Sand Stream got banned, and Rhyperior loses to Earthquake, which gets STAB and Super Effective. With a higher Base Damage too. Fire-Types are dealt with either Earthquake or Stone Edge, as are Rock-Types. Its for Ground-Type coverage, and there's only like 7 in the whole tier, and only 1 needs Aqua Tail to do any considerable damage to it (Flygon = Megahorn hits harder, Nidoking/queen = Earthquake, Claydol = Megahorn, Gligar = Stone Edge). Hippopotas won't be seen in UU much more anyways, so why not?

Or just add ice punch for the KO on gligar. One of rhyperiors #1 switch in

[SJCrew]

Hippopotas? Gligar? Opposing Rhyperior

Yes.

Stone Edge'll do more to Gligar anyways because it's a neutral hit and STAB

100 x 1.5 = 150
90 x 2 = 180

Wrong.

Rhyperior loses to Earthquake

Earthquake can't OHKO a healthy Rhyperior.

EQ: 78% - 92.4%
Aqua Tail: 94.3% - 111.3%

Hippopotas is just goddamn bulky anyways, and wont be used seeing that Sand Stream got banned

Technically true, but not in the way you'd think. Sand Stream may be banned, but under that stipulation, Hippopotas won't be, and Hippowdon is due for a drop from BL.

Neither Aqua Tail nor Superpower are extremely useful overall, but I'd argue that Aqua Tail is more important, since you can't 2HKO Gligar otherwise. I prefer Ice Punch for the OHKO anyway, but that's not really going to cut it when Hippowdon comes back.

[Xubble]

Yeah, Superpower isn't destroying anything new except Porygon2 (and I haven't run damage calcs, so I don't even know if he needs the super effective damage). Rhyperior already counters Snorlax (even EQ doesn't hit Rhyperior hard enough), and Chansey folds to strong physical STAB, Eviolite or not. Any other Normal mons aren't bulky enough to warrant Superpower.

[SJCrew]

That's actually a common misconception about Chansey; she needs a REALLY strong physical attack in order to fold. She can wall a leftovers Rhyperior senseless, and CB EQ does ~60% max. That's not what I call physically frail. IIRC, she can even take Jolly LO Mamo's EQ twice after SR. A lot of players used to complain about her being centralizing and difficult to break without a bulky Fighting-type to switch into her indefinitely.

[Xubble]

Eh, run Swords Dance. XD

I don't know, I've seen a LOT of Covet Ambipoms and other Trick users lately. I feel like Chansey is gonna get touched in ways nobody should ever be touched, thus eliminating the defense issues.

[Ace Emerald]

Originally Posted by Fat Xubble

Eh, run Swords Dance. XD

I don't know, I've seen a LOT of Covet Ambipoms and other Trick users lately. I feel like Chansey is gonna get touched in ways nobody should ever be touched, thus eliminating the defense issues.

One of the best things about Chandelure is now it has Trick. With other weaker trick scarfers, you can find a switch-in that doesn't mind scarf as much, but with Chandelure's raw power, you can choose between getting potentially toasted, or loosing a wall or tank like Chansey or Snorlax.

[Xubble]

Too bad Chandelure is going to be hitting the big OU once Shadow Tag hits. And I sense it's not gonna be too long that happens.

Slowbro gets Trick, sets up Calm Minds, and has Psyshock to hit hard physically or specially.

[RT.]

Originally Posted by Fat SJCrew

That's actually a common misconception about Chansey; she needs a REALLY strong physical attack in order to fold. She can wall a leftovers Rhyperior senseless, and CB EQ does ~60% max. That's not what I call physically frail. IIRC, she can even take Jolly LO Mamo's EQ twice after SR. A lot of players used to complain about her being centralizing and difficult to break without a bulky Fighting-type to switch into her indefinitely.

UU isn't lacking when it comes to hard hitting physical attackers. There are many pokemon that can OHKO or 2HKO Chansey that aren't even fighting types. (Azumarill, Darmanitan, CB Flygon, Honchkrow, Escavalier, and Rhyperior come to mind) Bulky setup pokemon, such as Mismagius, Togekiss, Snorlax, and Golurk can all use Chansey as setup bait, and crippling her with Trick and Toxic Spikes was already mentioned.

[DestinyUnknown]

Originally Posted by Fat Xubble

Too bad Chandelure is going to be hitting the big OU once Shadow Tag hits. And I sense it's not gonna be too long that happens.

Slowbro gets Trick, sets up Calm Minds, and has Psyshock to hit hard physically or specially.

Calm Mind Slowbro is heavily crippled by Toxic (and at +1, Psyshock does less than 25% to Chansey, so it can't beat it).

The problem with most of those physical attackers is that, again, Chansey is not supposed to wall them. You can just pair chansey with Gligar and a bulky water and you have most of those threats covered, just like you would on OU with Blissey.

[Xubble]

Did you calculate that with or without Eviolite? If you cripple Chansey on the switch with Trick, she's forced to either Toxic or switch out basically, so a switch to a Toxic absorber like Roserade is ideal since she can set up (Toxic) Spikes.

If CM Slowbro DOES get poisoned, he can Trick her a Choice item and still run without CM thanks to Regenerator, burning with Scald and tanking physical hits. I see it as trading your ability to set up for completely crippling your opponent's special wall.

[SJCrew]

Originally Posted by Fat RT.

UU isn't lacking when it comes to hard hitting physical attackers. There are many pokemon that can OHKO or 2HKO Chansey that aren't even fighting types. (Azumarill, Darmanitan, CB Flygon, Honchkrow, Escavalier, and Rhyperior come to mind) Bulky setup pokemon, such as Mismagius, Togekiss, Snorlax, and Golurk can all use Chansey as setup bait, and crippling her with Trick and Toxic Spikes was already mentioned.

My point is not that UU's best can't defeat her, just that taking her out is not a walk in the park. Ordinary attackers like Flygon have no chance. That CB Flygon, for example, can 2HKO her coming in on rocks, but it's a completely shitty option for breaking Chansey when the momentum is in her favor. With a Jolly nature, you need Rocks secure the 2HKO with Outrage, but you lose if she's just sitting in her fox hole daring something to challenge her. Even with Adamant, try to come in on her, and watch her spam Softboiled until you're confused and begging for a crit. You don't send out a CB Flygon to do a Machamp's job.

Also, a couple of things I wanted to dispute with your random list of powerful Pokemon: Honchkrow is not a serious answer to Chansey. Sending Honchkrow in with SR up means it could be statused or losing 50+% of its life immediately. You can't Brave Bird on Chansey, since it barely does over half and she'll just spam recovery while you kill yourself. Superpower? Again, recovery spam. Unless the first hit KOs, she will live every single one after that and stall you out, status or not. Also, would highly recommmend a better check than Darmanitan, another non-OHKOing Pokemon who either has to rely on the stallable Superpower, or lose a lot of HP trying to take her out. If anything, we might see these two start to use Choice Band so that their STAB/Superpower can get closer to OHKOing her. I don't think you mentioned Togekiss having both Heal Bell and NP anywhere, so unless that's the case, your Togekiss is not setting up on Chansey.

Chansey is really not easy at all to deal with. Having a Fighting-type may as well be a requirement because it just makes things so, so much easier when you're playing against her. And yes, carrying mons that set up all over her fat face is also a good option, like Sub CM Chandelure, Suicune, Snorlax, etc.

[RT.]

Originally Posted by Fat SJCrew

My point is not that UU's best can't defeat her, just that taking her out is not a walk in the park. Ordinary attackers like Flygon have no chance. That CB Flygon, for example, can 2HKO her coming in on rocks, but it's a completely shitty option for breaking Chansey when the momentum is in her favor. With a Jolly nature, you need Rocks secure the 2HKO with Outrage, but you lose if she's just sitting in her fox hole daring something to challenge her. Even with Adamant, try to come in on her, and watch her spam Softboiled until you're confused and begging for a crit. You don't send out a CB Flygon to do a Machamp's job.

Also, a couple of things I wanted to dispute with your random list of powerful Pokemon: Honchkrow is not a serious answer to Chansey. Sending Honchkrow in with SR up means it could be statused or losing 50+% of its life immediately. You can't Brave Bird on Chansey, since it barely does over half and she'll just spam recovery while you kill yourself. Superpower? Again, recovery spam. Unless the first hit KOs, she will live every single one after that and stall you out, status or not. Also, would highly recommmend a better check than Darmanitan, another non-OHKOing Pokemon who either has to rely on the stallable Superpower, or lose a lot of HP trying to take her out. If anything, we might see these two start to use Choice Band so that their STAB/Superpower can get closer to OHKOing her. I don't think you mentioned Togekiss having both Heal Bell and NP anywhere, so unless that's the case, your Togekiss is not setting up on Chansey.

Chansey is really not easy at all to deal with. Having a Fighting-type may as well be a requirement because it just makes things so, so much easier when you're playing against her. And yes, carrying mons that set up all over her fat face is also a good option, like Sub CM Chandelure, Suicune, Snorlax, etc.

That random list of powerful pokemon was indeed just a random list of powerful pokemon, they are not 100% counters to Chansey nor do I remember saying they were. I was merely pointing out that Chansey can't switch in on every non-fighting physical attacker and wall them, like some people have been implying.

Although, if your argument is that none of those pokemon can switch in on Chansey while she's at full health and beat her, that's actually not true. For example,

CB Darm Superpower vs 252/252+ Chansey: 602-710 (85.51 - 100.85%)
CB Darm Superpower at -1 atk: 402-474 (57.1 - 67.32%)

Assuming that you don't hit absolute minimum damage twice in a row, that's a 2HKO if Chansey uses Softboiled.

CB Azumarill Superpower vs 252/252+ Chansey: 632-744 (89.77 - 105.68%)
CB Azumarill Superpower at -1 Atk: 420-496 (59.65 - 70.45%)

Once again, Chansey loses.

Originally Posted by Fat DestinyUnknown

The problem with most of those physical attackers is that, again, Chansey is not supposed to wall them. You can just pair chansey with Gligar and a bulky water and you have most of those threats covered, just like you would on OU with Blissey.

lol seriously? Okay so Chansey is broken because she can wall special attackers like she's supposed to. Lets ignore the fact that physical attackers beat her because you can solve that problem by pairing her with Gligar.

[Closetalker]

Ok, so you literally picked the two strongest physical attackers in the tier, gave them a choice band (CB Darm sucks btw), had them use Superpower, and neither of them could guarantee a ohko on Chansey without rocks up. Gee, that seems a little ridiculous.

lol seriously? Okay so Chansey is broken because she can wall special attackers like she's supposed to. Lets ignore the fact that physical attackers beat her because you can solve that problem by pairing her with Gligar.

If Chansey is supposed to wall special attackers then I imagine she's supposed to be easily beaten using physical fighting attackers.

ScarfCross CC 71.9% - 84.7%

Hah, and you thought luring out and killing your opponents gligar, weakening their bulky water to the point where it can no longer check Heracross, and killing any scarf users faster than Heracross would be enough to secure a moxie sweep. Well no, because Heracross has to have a goddamned Choice Band to secure a OHKO Chansey.

[RT.]

Originally Posted by Fat Closetalker

Ok, so you literally picked the two strongest physical attackers in the tier, gave them a choice band (CB Darm sucks btw), had them use Superpower, and neither of them could guarantee a ohko on Chansey without rocks up. Gee, that seems a little ridiculous.



If Chansey is supposed to wall special attackers then I imagine she's supposed to be easily beaten using physical fighting attackers.

ScarfCross CC 71.9% - 84.7%

Hah, and you thought luring out and killing your opponents gligar, weakening their bulky water to the point where it can no longer check Heracross, and killing any scarf users faster than Heracross would be enough to secure a moxie sweep. Well no, because Heracross has to have a goddamned Choice Band to secure a OHKO Chansey.

Hmm CB Darm sucks huh? I suppose that's why I got to 2nd on the ladder using a team with it and Flareblitz won the choice challenge using it on his team. I guess you're one of the people who switched your Gligar in on it and got 2HKOed by Flare Blitz.

Anyway, your point about Heracross. You realize that choice scarf Heracross can't even OHKO offensive Porygon2 and some Snorlax, right? It's weak. And if you've lured out Gligar and weakened your opponents bulky water, then what is stopping you from sweeping with Moxie? Let's assume that Chansey just obliterated something with Seismic Toss, and you bring Heracross in. What is Chansey going to do after you CC it? Unless it's carrying Thunder Wave, which is just stupid, it can't do anything other than hit you with a S-Toss or Toxic.

I honestly don't understand what your point was with that scenario.

[hilarious]

Originally Posted by Fat RT.

Hmm CB Darm sucks huh? I suppose that's why I got to 2nd on the ladder using a team with it and Flareblitz won the choice challenge using it on his team. I guess you're one of the people who switched your Gligar in on it and got 2HKOed by Flare Blitz.

Anyway, your point about Heracross. You realize that choice scarf Heracross can't even OHKO offensive Porygon2 and some Snorlax, right? It's weak. And if you've lured out Gligar and weakened your opponents bulky water, then what is stopping you from sweeping with Moxie? Let's assume that Chansey just obliterated something with Seismic Toss, and you bring Heracross in. What is Chansey going to do after you CC it? Unless it's carrying Thunder Wave, which is just stupid, it can't do anything other than hit you with a S-Toss or Toxic.

I honestly don't understand what your point was with that scenario.

Oh my, what a world we live in where Heracross is now called weak. I do not understand, though, why everyone seems to be so terrified of Chansey (although I wasn't playing UU with Chansey around this generation) when we don't even know for sure if it will drop, nor do we know if we will get a few more Chansey counters from other drops nor do we know exactly how BW2 will change the metagame.

So let me inform you of a much more real threat, Shedinja! I might have said it before, but now with Sand gone Shedinja will become even more potent than it already was. Top threats cannot touch it - Raikou, Suicune, Milotic, Roserade, Kingdra etc. Residual damage comes only in a few forms with Sand gone now. Hazard damage is fairly easily stopped and heavily discouraged by sticking in a Xatu on your team. I suppose a Foresight Spinner would work as well. Burn and Toxic are pretty obvious when incoming and if you run Xatu you can bounce that back too. Leech Seed comes only from Grass types which die to boosted X-Scissors, Leech Seed will not sap away Shedinja's HP if Shedinja just fainted the opposing Grass. The only other problem is Super Effective moves which do not by any means guarantee a dead Shedinja. Chandelure for instance is OHKO'd by a boosted Sucker Punch. Krookdile dies to X-Scissor followed by Sucker Punch. Remember Focus Sash means you have to have to hit Shedinja twice which is not easy to do when it sports SD and double priority.

In theory Shedinja looks good, in practice Shedinja is only slightly better. Burn frankly doesn't really exist in the tier anymore outside Sableye and the Scald which does not hit Shedinja so it will not have its 30% burn rate. Toxic is extremely annoying but Bronzong needs to be at about 45% to not fold to a a boosted X-Scissors (I think my opponent was using a physically defensive version). Hitmontop unfortunately will be a sure counter as will Blastoise since it outspeeds. People do not run enough Shedinja checks most of the time.

Look at this please.

Battle between SmangIt and piffy started!

Tier: Standard UU
Mode: Singles
Variation: +16, -16
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Wifi Battle

Your team: Rhyperior / Zoroark / Kingdra / Roserade / Xatu / Shedinja
Opponent's team: Kingdra / Flygon / Bronzong / Togekiss / Bisharp / Victini

Just from looking at my opponents team you can tell Kingdra is useless against Shedinja, Vicitini will fold to boosted Sucker Punch after a bit of hazard or other prior damage, Flygon will be desperately guessing Shedinja's switch in, Bronzong may or may not be able to Toxic Shedinja but it will not be able to set up Rocks until late game if ever because it cannot defeat Xatu (Gyro Ball has 8 PP and does like 47% or so on average), Bisharp can only guess when to use Sucker Punch while Shedinja can use SD up to 48 times to waste the 8 Sucker Punch PP. Only Togekiss is a big problem, which my opponent so kindly sacks after the fifth turn after it was Paralyzed by Xatu and then Stone Edged by Rhyperior. Through that battle Shedinja never manages to sweep but it keeps my opponent on their toes, they focus only on trying to kill Shedinja - which they don't - because they know it will stop their team cold very easily, meanwhile I pick their team apart.

If you think Shedinja is too suspect to use on a UU team then at least prepare for it more or ready yourself strategically, frankly I think it's embarrassing that Shedinja should be able to sweep so often.

If you have time to kill, the log is here.

...

---

Tier: Standard UU
Mode: Singles
Variation: +16, -16
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Wifi Battle

Your team: Rhyperior / Zoroark / Kingdra / Roserade / Xatu / Shedinja
Opponent's team: Kingdra / Flygon / Bronzong / Togekiss / Bisharp / Victini

SmangIt sent out Bronzong!
piffy sent out Shedinja!

Start of turn 1
Shedinja used U-turn!This is my Specs Zoro actually
SmangIt's Bronzong lost 13% of its health!
piffy called Shedinja back!
piffy sent out Xatu!

SmangIt's Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
Xatu lost 156 HP! (46% of its health)

Xatu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
SmangIt's Bronzong restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 2
SmangIt called Bronzong back!
SmangIt sent out Togekiss!

Xatu used Roost!
Xatu landed on the ground!
Xatu regained health!

Start of turn 3
Xatu used Thunder Wave!
SmangIt's Togekiss is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

SmangIt's Togekiss used Nasty Plot!
SmangIt's Togekiss's Sp. Att. sharply rose!

Start of turn 4
Xatu used U-turn!
It's not very effective...
SmangIt's Togekiss lost 5% of its health!
piffy called Xatu back!
piffy sent out Rhyperior!

SmangIt's Togekiss is paralyzed! It can't move!

SmangIt's Togekiss restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 5
Rhyperior used Stone Edge!
It's super effective!
SmangIt's Togekiss lost 100% of its health!
SmangIt's Togekiss fainted!

SmangIt sent out Kingdra!

Start of turn 6
SmangIt called Kingdra back!
SmangIt sent out Bronzong!

piffy called Rhyperior back!
piffy sent out Shedinja!

SmangIt's Bronzong restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 7
piffy called Shedinja back!
piffy sent out Xatu!

SmangIt's Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
Xatu lost 162 HP! (48% of its health)

Xatu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
SmangIt's Bronzong restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 8
SmangIt called Bronzong back!
SmangIt sent out Flygon!

Xatu used Roost!
Xatu landed on the ground!
Xatu regained health!

Start of turn 9
piffy called Xatu back!
piffy sent out Rhyperior!

SmangIt's Flygon used Stone Edge!
It's not very effective...
Rhyperior lost 55 HP! (14% of its health)

Rhyperior restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 10
SmangIt called Flygon back!
SmangIt sent out Kingdra!

Rhyperior used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around SmangIt's team!

Rhyperior restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 11
SmangIt called Kingdra back!
SmangIt sent out Bronzong!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Bronzong!

piffy called Rhyperior back!
piffy sent out Shedinja!

SmangIt's Bronzong restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 12
piffy called Shedinja back!
piffy sent out Xatu!

SmangIt's Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
Xatu lost 175 HP! (52% of its health)

Xatu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 13
Xatu used Roost!
Xatu landed on the ground!
Xatu regained health!

SmangIt's Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
Xatu lost 156 HP! (46% of its health)
dingram is watching the battle.

Xatu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 14
Xatu used Roost!
Xatu landed on the ground!
Xatu regained health!

SmangIt's Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
Xatu lost 162 HP! (48% of its health)

Xatu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 15
Xatu used Roost!
Xatu landed on the ground!
Xatu regained health!

SmangIt's Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
Xatu lost 151 HP! (45% of its health)

Xatu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 16
SmangIt called Bronzong back!
SmangIt sent out Flygon!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Flygon!

Xatu used Roost!
Xatu landed on the ground!
Xatu regained health!

Start of turn 17
piffy called Xatu back!
piffy sent out Rhyperior!

SmangIt's Flygon used Stone Edge!
It's not very effective...
Rhyperior lost 62 HP! (15% of its health)

Rhyperior restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 18
SmangIt called Flygon back!
SmangIt sent out Kingdra!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Kingdra!

Rhyperior used Megahorn!
The attack of Rhyperior missed!

Rhyperior restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 19
SmangIt called Kingdra back!
SmangIt sent out Bronzong!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Bronzong!

piffy called Rhyperior back!
piffy sent out Shedinja!

SmangIt's Bronzong restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 20
piffy called Shedinja back!
piffy sent out Xatu!

SmangIt's Bronzong used Stealth Rock!
SmangIt's Bronzong's Stealth Rock was bounced back by Magic Mirror!
But if failed!

Start of turn 21
SmangIt called Bronzong back!
SmangIt sent out Victini!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Victini!

Xatu used Night Shade!
SmangIt's Victini lost 29% of its health!

Start of turn 22
piffy called Xatu back!
piffy sent out Rhyperior!

SmangIt's Victini used V-create!
It's not very effective...
Rhyperior lost 112 HP! (28% of its health)
SmangIt's Victini's Speed fell!
SmangIt's Victini's Defense fell!
SmangIt's Victini's Sp. Def. fell!

Rhyperior restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 23
SmangIt's Victini used V-create!
It's not very effective...
Rhyperior lost 96 HP! (24% of its health)
SmangIt's Victini's Speed fell!
SmangIt's Victini's Defense fell!
SmangIt's Victini's Sp. Def. fell!

Rhyperior used Megahorn!
A critical hit!
SmangIt's Victini lost 45% of its health!
SmangIt's Victini fainted!

Rhyperior restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
SmangIt sent out Kingdra!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Kingdra!

Start of turn 24
piffy called Rhyperior back!
piffy sent out Shedinja!

SmangIt's Kingdra used Waterfall!
Shedinja's Wonder Guard evades the attack!

Start of turn 25
SmangIt called Kingdra back!
SmangIt sent out Bronzong!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Bronzong!
dingram: shedinja good

Shedinja used X-Scissor!
SmangIt's Bronzong lost 30% of its health!

SmangIt's Bronzong restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 26
piffy called Shedinja back!
piffy sent out Xatu!

SmangIt's Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
Xatu lost 154 HP! (46% of its health)

Xatu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
SmangIt's Bronzong restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 27
SmangIt called Bronzong back!
SmangIt sent out Flygon!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Flygon!

Xatu used Roost!
Xatu landed on the ground!
Xatu regained health!

Start of turn 28
piffy called Xatu back!
piffy sent out Rhyperior!

SmangIt's Flygon used U-turn!
Rhyperior lost 80 HP! (20% of its health)
SmangIt called Flygon back!
SmangIt sent out Bisharp!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Bisharp!

SmangIt's Bisharp restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Rhyperior restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 29
SmangIt's Bisharp used Iron Head!
It's super effective!
Rhyperior lost 155 HP! (39% of its health)
Rhyperior fainted!

piffy sent out Kingdra!

Start of turn 30
Kingdra used Hydro Pump!
SmangIt's Bisharp lost 97% of its health!
Kingdra is hurt by its Life Orb!

SmangIt's Bisharp used Swords Dance!
SmangIt's Bisharp's Attack sharply rose!

SmangIt's Bisharp restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 31
piffy called Kingdra back!
piffy sent out Shedinja!

SmangIt's Bisharp used Sucker Punch!
But if failed!

SmangIt's Bisharp restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 32
SmangIt's Bisharp used Substitute!
SmangIt's Bisharp hasn't enough energy left!

Shedinja used Swords Dance!
Shedinja's Attack sharply rose!

SmangIt's Bisharp restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 33
SmangIt's Bisharp used Sucker Punch!
It's super effective!
Shedinja hung on using its Focus Sash!
Shedinja lost 0 HP! (0% of its health)

Shedinja used X-Scissor!
SmangIt's Bisharp lost 20% of its health!
SmangIt's Bisharp fainted!

SmangIt sent out Flygon!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Flygon!

Start of turn 34
piffy called Shedinja back!
piffy sent out Kingdra!

SmangIt's Flygon used Stone Edge!
The attack of SmangIt's Flygon missed!

Start of turn 35
SmangIt called Flygon back!
SmangIt sent out Bronzong!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Bronzong!

Kingdra used Draco Meteor!
It's not very effective...
SmangIt's Bronzong lost 35% of its health!
Kingdra's Sp. Att. sharply fell!
Kingdra is hurt by its Life Orb!

SmangIt's Bronzong restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 36
piffy called Kingdra back!
piffy sent out Xatu!

SmangIt's Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
Xatu lost 175 HP! (52% of its health)

Xatu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
SmangIt's Bronzong restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 37
SmangIt called Bronzong back!
SmangIt sent out Flygon!
Pointed stones dug into SmangIt's Flygon!

Xatu used Roost!
Xatu landed on the ground!
Xatu regained health!

Start of turn 38
piffy called Xatu back!
piffy sent out Kingdra!

SmangIt's Flygon used Stone Edge!
Kingdra lost 149 HP! (47% of its health)

Start of turn 39
SmangIt's Flygon used Stone Edge!
Kingdra lost 100 HP! (32% of its health)
Kingdra fainted!

piffy sent out Shedinja!

Start of turn 40
Shedinja used Dark Pulse!
SmangIt's Flygon lost 74% of its health!

SmangIt's Flygon used Stone Edge!
Shedinja lost 211 HP! (80% of its health)

Start of turn 41
Zoroark used Dark Pulse!
SmangIt's Flygon lost 1% of its health!
SmangIt's Flygon fainted!

piffy won the battle!

The window was disabled due to one of the players closing the battle window.

[Closetalker]

Hmm CB Darm sucks huh? I suppose that's why I got to 2nd on the ladder using a team with it and Flareblitz won the choice challenge using it on his team. I guess you're one of the people who switched your Gligar in on it and got 2HKOed by Flare Blitz.

Jolly LO Darm 2hkos Gligar anyway, and isn't setup bait for being choice locked.

Anyway, your point about Heracross. You realize that choice scarf Heracross can't even OHKO offensive Porygon2 and some Snorlax, right? It's weak. And if you've lured out Gligar and weakened your opponents bulky water, then what is stopping you from sweeping with Moxie? Let's assume that Chansey just obliterated something with Seismic Toss, and you bring Heracross in. What is Chansey going to do after you CC it? Unless it's carrying Thunder Wave, which is just stupid, it can't do anything other than hit you with a S-Toss or Toxic.

Wishpass pass for one. Or thunder wave, which is not a poor option at all and would have value in precisely this sort of situation.

You listed a handful of very powerful physical attackers that can break through chansey assuming that Chansey switches in on them or sits there and fights them mano-a-mano. What if you want to switch one of them into Chansey ? If you manage to avoid getting statused, a cleric set with wish-protect can make a mockery of those choice users by scouting their attacks then giving you a easy switch-in.

Then that leaves the multitude of pokemon and sets like Scarfgon, Krookodile, Sharpedo, Weaville, Houndoom, DD Kingdra, ect. that Chansey can if not straight up wall them then check fairly easily. In addition to shitting on most special attackers and walls.

[Iridium]

Originally Posted by Fat hilarious

*shedinja stuff*

Shedinja is pretty hit or miss. On the last team I used, 5/6 pokemon had something to hit Shedinja, and the 6th had toxic (which doesn't count as much because Xatu, I know). Fire blast x2, crunch, air slash, and rock blast (kills through focus sash!). And I didn't even think about Shedinja even once. None of them weak to sucker punch, btw.

Some teams you can wreck, and against other teams, you're going in with 5 pokemon almost.

Originally Posted by Fat Closetalker

Then that leaves the multitude of pokemon and sets like Scarfgon, Krookodile, Sharpedo, Weaville, Houndoom, DD Kingdra, ect. that Chansey can if not straight up wall them then check fairly easily. In addition to shitting on most special attackers and walls.

Wait, what? How does Chansey check DD Kingdra?

[hilarious]

Originally Posted by Fat Iridium

Shedinja is pretty hit or miss. Only in the sense it will hit you or you will miss it. On the last team I used, 5/6 pokemon had something to hit Shedinja, and the 6th had toxic (which doesn't count as much because Xatu, I know). Fire blast x2, crunch, air slash, and rock blast (kills through focus sash!). And I didn't even think about Shedinja even once. None of them weak to sucker punch, btw.

Some teams you can wreck, and against other teams, you're going in with 5 pokemon almost.

Not true! At all! Obviously your team is the exception. And frankly nobody is about to counter team you here, if you could just copy and paste your team here I could probably show you why A. Shedinja probably can still trouble your team or at least not be dead weight or B. Why your team is so extraordinarily rare.

Every single team you face is almost surely going to be using at least one of Raikou, Roserade, Milotic, Suicune, Azumarill, Roserade, Registeel, Swampert or Slowbro. All of those Pokemon have virtually no chance of touching Shedinja so you can essentially not care about them and let them set up Subs or boosts and not give a crap because you know Shedinja will come in to force them out later. You sir are the one starting off what is essentially 6-5 or 6-4 or 6-3 or better as long as you can recognize the fact Shedinja needs hazards off the field.

But that list is far shorter than what Shedinja can usually beat. Bisharp is going to have to predict like mad not to waste Sucker Punch. Snorlax has to run Fire Punch or Crunch instead of its usual 5 moves of Curse, Whirlwind, Body Slam, Rest and Sleep Talk. Zapdos must be using Heat Wave or Toxic or its a goner. Nidoking has to be running a Fire coverage move. Bronzong has to be using Toxic. Cobalion must be running Stone Edge.

And Shedinja is still not done raping UU yet! There is a whole other list of Pokemon that seem to check Shedinja but to no avail, the things that fall to priority. Darmantian takes at least 70% from a +2 Sucker Punch. Chandelure is OHKO'd with hazards as is Victini. Mismagius is also maimed while Xatu is badly injured by a +2 Shadow Sneak.

Of course I'm not done yet though because I personally think all posts should be obnoxiously long to get the point across. There is yet another list that Shedinja can take on, the Choice users. Do you consider a Flygon a Shedinja check because it has Stone Edge? Wrong because I bet you you probably could have taken off Stone Edge and just have U-Turn/Outrage/Earthquake and probably not notice you were missing Stone Edge for a few battles. Unless you feel comfortable locking yourself early to midgame in a Flygon's Stone Edge, Shedinja is staying on the field, stealing your momentum away when you try to U-Turn. Choice Scarf Heracross is unable to spam STAB moves if he is Choiced (Orb variants may actually be completely walled!) because the looming threat of Shedinja. A boosted Shadow Sneak can do over 50% so Heracross will spam CC as Shedinja comes in. As Hera switches Shedinja may use SD if team preview permits and proceed to sweep if the opponent has no way to touch you apart from Heracross because the Focus Sash will save you if Heracross is still at +60%. Choice variants of Vicitini and Darmanitan that try to get cute with U-Turn are met with a dead cold and empty husk that halts all momentum. Its pretty simple, make sure you can win (which is obvious with team preview), wait for your opponent to understimate you and make a mistake like using U-Turn midgame. Use SD as they flee your Shedinja and maim anything standing in your way knowing you can survive at least one hit because Focus Sash and knowing priority will likely kill the choiced user when it comes back in to try and revenge you. Also true for Escalvalier but that needs to be weakened a bit if you cannot force it out, although he is one of the Choice pokes you can actually outspeed so two +2 X-Scissors if you have your Focus Sash intact should do some damage I suppose (I never tried it).

There are of course more Pokemon Shedinja can defeat and then win whole games with. If your opponent is in the mind set of "All I need to do is keep my Krookodile alive and then Shedinja ca't beat me" then awaken them rudely. Krook will always fall to Shedinja if Shedinja has a Focus Sash still because it has a Super Effective X-Scissors. This is also true for Zoro and Sharpedo as well as other frail things that crumple under one X-Scissors+Sucker Punch such as Houndoom.

I must have listed over a dozen, maybe two, unique UU pokes, all of which are at least decent in UU and all of which usually/always lose to Shedinja. There are more. The only true negative aspect of Shedinja is that it demands the expensive luxury of no hazards on your side while keeping Stealth Rock on your opponents side (which actually is almost easier said than done with Xatu).

edit: i'm not so sure anyone believes me yet so look here http://www.smogon.com/forums/forumdi...id=rmt_mode_uu
Every single team in the first 15 or so RMTs have at least one Poke that cannot touch Shedinja while practically all their SR users are weak enough to be walled by Xatu. Many teams have two or three.

[Iridium]

My team is pretty rare, yes, but the individual pokemon or combinations of them being rare does not make the moves they run rare, nor is it a rare team structure/theme. Rock and fire especially are incredibly common coverage moves. Dark is a bit less common, but more troublesome because Pursuit is dark. Anyway, it's
nidoqueen, nidoking (both with fire blast because bronzong is so common, and it's the best option for a neutral hit on things immune to earth power, like mismagius)
alomomola (toxic is obvious)
zweilous (crunch)
cinccino (rock blast)
togekiss (air slash)


The move Flygon puts on when it takes off stone edge is fire punch (and that's what I use. Bronzong is otherwise a super hard counter), so that's not doing Shedinja any favors. Lots of snorlax run crunch or fire punch, and some even run pursuit (like mine), since pursuitlax is an excellent chandelure counter. Looking at usage stats for last month, curse (36%) is not that far above crunch (27%) in usage (fire punch 22%, pursuit 18%). Stone edge was used by over half of cobalions. etc.

Yeah, shedinja is a good swith in to raikou and offensive water types, but can't switch into much of anything else. It can come in on defensive waters after something dies and threaten them with status, but only by switching out. Going through the UU list, everything beyond the above-mentioned raikou/roserade/water types commonly carries moves that can hit shedinja, save claydol and porygon 2. And then many teams are very hard to keep hazards off the field against. Like if the SR user is Rhyperior, for instance, Xatu is ineffective hazard protection. So it's really hit or miss.


late edit: side note: at first glance, your shedinja team appears to be horribly cinccino-weak

[DetroitLolcat]

CHANSEY IS NOT DROPPING.

stay the FUCK out of this tier, you fat pink whore.

Also we get mienshao yay a catmon!

And Scrafty dropped as well.

And Mew is gone, making Fighting types even better.

I'll add substance to this post later.

SIGNIFICANT CHANGES

-We will not get Hippowdon (without Sand Stream), as he's going back up to OU.
-Mew is going to OU as soon as two Fighting types drop back down.
-Chansey stays barely, barely, barely OU.


This is arguably the best outcome for UU based on what we were expecting, expect for Mew going to OU. Expect to see a rise in Heracross usage!

[RT.]

So two new fighting types in UU and we lose Mew...hmm

[PsYch071c]

Originally Posted by Fat RT.

So two new fighting types in UU and we lose Mew...hmm

We also have a new mon in Hippowdon, who walls the shit out of the new fighting types. The improved Ditto revenge kills Scrafty and SD Mienshao(which will be legit). Mew wouldn't have threatened either fighting type anyway, because Scrafty Crunches it while Mienshao U-Turns and deals huge damage.

Edit: Well apparently Hippo is OU now.

[RT.]

Originally Posted by Fat PsYch071c

We also have a new mon in Hippowdon, who walls the shit out of the new fighting types. The improved Ditto revenge kills Scrafty. Mew wouldn't have threatened either fighting type anyway, because Scrafty Crunches it while Mienshao U-Turns.

Hippowdon has to be very healthy to check Mienshao though, I'd say Slowbro is probably the most reliable counter even though it takes ~35% from U-Turn.

And Gligar takes HP Ice better than Gliscor, son of a bitch.

[Not Jacky]

We didn't get abomasnow either, though it's not really a big deal.

[kokoloko*]

I'll open stage 7 later today but mark my words... Crobat is now the best Pokemon in the tier.