BW2 In-Game Tier List Discussion [Updated 7/24]

[Antihaxxer]

MY FAVORITE TOPIC !

I think Magnemite is definitively a top tier, a great steel type since the start with no fire gym, and fighting gym ? With almost every gym can't touch him with their stab (poison, bug, electric, flying, dragon) ?

Well, I hate that Riolu have to wait level 15 for Force Palm they switch Feint/FP in his movepool ...

Pidove, Purrloin are the same shit that in B1W1

[TM13IceBeam]

technically there's a fighting type E4

and maggy is quite meh against plasma because he dies to scraggy and sandile (but wins against raticate, koffing and grimer to an extent...)

Pidove's not even useful as a fly slave anymore because of Volcarona.

[Destiny Warrior]

Doesn't White 2 get a Braviary in the desert? How does that stack up?

Also, supporting the motion that Volcarona is terrible.

[TM13IceBeam]

I'm not sure Volca is really that bad. Even though its weak, Silverpowder boosted-Struggle Bug does 2HKO a lot of things(and we don't really have a reason to take it off Volcarona anyway outside of lucky egg audino grinding). If you can teach it Signal Beam, it goes from decent to rape machine. Volca's moves are bad but they are counteracted by his godly stats, and once he gets Fire Blast there's no turning back. You have created a monster.

[EspyOwner]

I'm aware that Hidden Hollow Pokemon were "banned" from this thread, but what of the Minccino that you get 100% of the time when Bianca takes you to the one right outside of Driftveil?
I've been having tons of fun with Cinccino - you can evolve it right at lv25 after it learns Tail Slap, and you should already have two Heart Scales to learn Bullet Seed and Rock Blast from the relearner. So far it's one of my strongest Pokemon.

[Count Serperior]

I'm about to tackle Roxie with my Psyduck (Confusion + Water Gun woot!)
Wish me luck

And speaking of Psyduck, how does Golduck fare? I haven't read anything about him in this thread.
BW really lacked in Water types (Starter/fossil/jelly).
In BW2 we get Psyduck & Azurill really early on and reviews on Azurill are mixed at best...


[fyi, TM13IceBeam, I love your username, just sayin']

[WingedKnight]

Originally Posted by Fat Destiny Warrior

Doesn't White 2 get a Braviary in the desert? How does that stack up?

Also, supporting the motion that Volcarona is terrible.

White 2 definitely wins out on the exclusive bird pairing. Sure, Mandibuzz is super bulky and whatever else, but I think people are over-exaggerating its usefulness with boosting offense due to its low power. Plus Weak Armor is a downer compared to if it had gotten Overcoat.

On the other hand, Braviary comes ready to rock. I think he's even available to Nuzlockers: I don't believe you have to pass through any encounter sand to reach him. Very high attack and good bulk makes his unexceptional speed workable, and he's still not super-slow. He comes with a decent boosting move in Hone Claws, and he learns better moves off a higher attack stat than most other Flying types. Slow growth rate is a pain, but worthwhile. Defiant, while looked down on competitively due to the rarity to stat dropping moves, is pretty nice ingame, where Leers, Scary Faces, and Intimidates are flying every which way. Certainly better than Keen Eye or Sheer Force (though it makes Rock Slide less viable). He does fine against gym leaders and Plasma and such, with no major advantages or crippling disadvantages. He's just solid.

I think the combination of good stats, decent ability and moves, and early availability put him in High tier, hindered only by his slow growth rate, once-a-week appearance (really a non-issue but must be noted), and possibly the lack of moves like Superpower until later on. That said, Slash and Aerial Ace get the job done until the big guns like Return and Fly/Brave Bird come in. On the subject of moves, he learns a decent HM selection even though they are less needed in this gen.

[TM13IceBeam]

@WK: You do actually. Nothing's stopping you from using repel anyway. :P

[Manveru123]

I nominate Riolu for mid to high. Here's my story.

Got him to level 15 before first gym, he one shotted it easily. He evolved before 3rd gym, walled it completely, beat with Work Up + Quick Attack. Got TM Dig before 4th Gym so he managed to pull off a sweep there too. Emolga was slightly problematic due to flying type, but I've had enough time to stack Work Ups and just QA'd it. Everything else died after one Dig, not to mention I actually easily survived Zebrastrika's Flame Charge. I actually used him for 6th gym too, due to not having an electric type.. that's pushing it but he did fine. Later I turned him into special attacker, with eventually Calm Mind, Dark Pulse, Aura Sphere and Dragon Pulse (move tutor helped here). He obliterated Drayden and actually managed to take care of 8th gym by himself too (Calm Minded Aura Sphere wow). He also beat two out of 4 Elite Four members by himself. So yeah, great Pokemon.

[Stellar]

Originally Posted by Fat EspyOwner

I'm aware that Hidden Hollow Pokemon were "banned" from this thread, but what of the Minccino that you get 100% of the time when Bianca takes you to the one right outside of Driftveil?
I've been having tons of fun with Cinccino - you can evolve it right at lv25 after it learns Tail Slap, and you should already have two Heart Scales to learn Bullet Seed and Rock Blast from the relearner. So far it's one of my strongest Pokemon.

The Route 4 Hidden Hollow Minccino is fine. It's a required encounter.

[Manveru123]

A few more.

N's Zorua for Mid. Very strong, good moveset (with TMs at least), but also extremely frail. He drops quickly even to neutral attacks.

Magnemite for Magnemite tier :)

Route 4 Minccino for High. Skill Link is phenomenal with his moveset, especially his evolved form (after Heart Scales that is).

Growlithe for Low. Would be High to Top if I didn't have to wait with evolving pretty much until level 45.. that's way too long.

Volcarona for Low. While it's superb at higher levels, it's simply not a good enough reason to drag her with you for the rest of the game...

Oshawott for Top, because he's a perfect HM slave~! :D

Swablu low. You get it rather late (right before 7th gym?). Boosted with DDs it's pretty good, but the problem is that it relies on those DDs nearly as much as Mandibuzz relies on Nasty Plot. I dragged it with me since that was my only source of Earthquake (did not manage to OHKO Darmanitan 4 levels lower even at +1 though...), but it did not see much action.

I think that's everything I tested so far.

[Lucario_Guy]

Originally Posted by Fat Manveru123

Growlithe for Low. Would be High to Top if I didn't have to wait with evolving pretty much until level 45.. that's way too long.

Volcarona for Low. While it's superb at higher levels, it's simply not a good enough reason to drag her with you for the rest of the game...

Dude, you can get a Fire Stone in the Resort Desert, at which point your levels would only be at around 25-30; you can also buy them at the PWT for only 3 BP a piece. Your poor assessment of Growlithe seems to stem from a lack of thorough exploration on your part rather than from Growlithe's inherent advantages and disadvantages, good sir. ;)

As for Volcarona: Tutor it Signal Beam and gg.

[Carl]

He's waiting until level 45 for Flare Blitz (and also Crunch/Outrage prior to then).

[Manveru123]

You miss my point. I know I can evolve him earlier, but in case you haven't noticed, he learns Crunch at 39, Outrage at 43 and Flare Blitz at 45. Outrage can be tutored in post game, the other two can't.

And as for Volcarona, why would I ever use a pokemon whose only good attack for 90% of the game is a Bug type one? o.o I fail to see the point, really.

[blasphemy1]

After messing around with it today and a little last night, I'd say Volcarona is mid-tier, although it's bordering low-tier for me. It requires a bit of work to tutor it Signal Beam (although that alone shreds a lot of stuff to pieces) and it doesn't do well against most of the gyms late-game. Slow experience growth sucks and Fire Blast comes a little later than one would like. BUT it does considerably well against the Elite Four. It can handle Grimsley bar Scrafty, can set up on Caitlin with Calm Mind (or just attack and use something else against Sigi), and can set up on Shauntal's Cofagrigus as well (you need a fire move though or Driftblim one shots you). It struggles against Marshall and Iris as pretty much every one of their Pokemon has a move that hits you super effective and having to use a bunch of potions is undesirable (a lot of Pokemon have trouble with that Hydreigon though and Volcarona handles it well). It also does pretty well against Team Plasma, so there's that. All things considered, it's certainly not terrible but it does require a lot of work. If you put the work in then it's going to be one of the most powerful Pokemon in the game. Purely because of the work required I can't say it's any higher than mid.

Mid/Low

Oshawott is high tier for me. Razor Shell is just so damn good early on and it learns a variety of good H/TMs (Surf, Blizzard, Dig, X-Scissor, Grass Knot). Admittedly, it has problems against Elesa and Burgh, but it can pretty much handle everything else on its own. Mine bashed through Roxie with Razor Shell (defense drops help a TON), Clay was no problem, Skyla is weak in general, Drayden's Druddigon and Flygon don't have enough power to break through and you can afford to miss a Blizzard on his Haxorus too (Dragon Tail, really?). Marlon has a problem with Grass Knot. I ran Surf / Razor Shell / Grass Knot / Blizzard and didn't have many problems. It can nearly solo the elite four if you've leveled enough. Plus, it's a starter so availability isn't a problem and its exp growth is acceptable.

Top tier/High tier

The Braviary you get in Route 4 is really a blessing (for White players, of course). It comes with Hone Claws and Wing Attack which shreds stuff to bits. You get Slash not too long after and eventually Return hits for a ton. You'll have Superpower by level up around the time you're at the Elite Four, which is nice for Bisharp and Krookodile. It's not amazing against the elite four or gym leaders as a whole and struggles against Achroma, and it also has slow exp gain. It definitely simmers down late game, I'd say. It's really good against standard trainers, though.

Mid tier

The next Pokemon was pretty terrible to be honest, but I raised him because he's one of my favorites (so I might as well tell you about my experience). Umbreon requires friendship evolution (ughhh), has virtually no power or speed (is there any silver-lining?...), and Eevee is only a 5% encounter rate. It doesn't even have a powerful STAB to counteract all of these negatives. On the bright side, mine evolved before it would learn Faint Attack so at least I had a decent STAB to work with. I found myself having to use Screech wherever possible, and it actually worked quite well. I taught it Payback, the final moveset being Work Up / Payback / Return / Moonlight. Work Up replaced Screech because you can actually sweep with this thing. Needless to say this was a weak Pokemon but it can tank very well.

Low

[R_N]

Originally Posted by Fat Manveru123

You miss my point. I know I can evolve him earlier, but in case you haven't noticed, he learns Crunch at 39, Outrage at 43 and Flare Blitz at 45. Outrage can be tutored in post game, the other two can't.

And as for Volcarona, why would I ever use a pokemon whose only good attack for 90% of the game is a Bug type one? o.o I fail to see the point, really.

Or you can settle for Flamethrower at level 34 and wait until Yamaji to get Dragon Pulse for your dragon move (and is about the time Dragon moves would become relevant). Evolving at e4 also nabs you Extreme Speed.

He may have higher attack but the special attack is nothing to scoff at

[Goldfly2005]

Snivy: Decent, assuming a physical moveset and at least neutral nature. Has enough bulk to set up without too much trouble, and Coil certainly improves Aqua Tail, which is pretty much a "must-have". Never really loses any steam in-game; has trouble with Roxie and Skyla, but none of the other gym-leaders are particularly problematic.
Middle Tier

Espeon: Amazing in-game. The combination of a high Sp. Atk and Speed, and availability early on (pre-third gym) , make it an excellent sweeper. Physically frail, but has a significant amount of special bulk. Evolves by happiness, but has an above-average amount of happiness to begin with. My Eevee evolved by the defeat of Burgh, and Espeon proved invaluable from that point on. Using move tutors is recommended; Signal Beam helps with its rather limited movepool.
High Tier, possibly Top with Signal Beam.

N's Zorua: Another Pokemon that has incredible power in game. Comes at a relatively low level, but as it has a different ID, levels up quickly and evolves within five levels of obtaining. Has a relatively large movepool, if a bit lackluster without TMs. Frail, but speed and sheer damaging potential makes up for its lack of defensive might. Can easily deal with half the E4; Shauntal and Caitlin fall with no issue what so ever.
High Tier

Venipede: Not altogether too useful; obtained early, but lackluster through entire game from that point on. Has a remote amount of use against Burgh, I suppose?
Low Tier

Azurill: Genuinely quite useful, in my eyes. Huge Power is needed, of course, and Azurill itself is nearly useless. Marill and Azumarill, however, are of major use. Azumarill has a decent movepool between Aqua Tail and Return/Double Edge; both attacks are gained very early. Superpower is of some, but not much, use. Easily KOs most of Team Plasma's, including Ghetsis's, Pokemon. Is rather slow, but makes up for this with sheer strength.
Mid-High Tier

[rocky505]

Blasphemy how did you get grass knot on oshawott when the tm for it is post game.

But what would be everyone's opinion on chandelure. Right after you catch litwick you should already have surf to get the energy ball tm. You get a dusk stone and shadow ball tm after beating skyla at the haunted house. I got lucky and got a timid litwick and used it. I loved it and it wrecked things not resisted to it. You also get flamethrower right before the victory road for it.

[Manveru123]

Originally Posted by Fat R_N

Or you can settle for Flamethrower at level 34 and wait until Yamaji to get Dragon Pulse for your dragon move (and is about the time Dragon moves would become relevant). Evolving at e4 also nabs you Extreme Speed.

He may have higher attack but the special attack is nothing to scoff at

That doesn't change the rating really, in that situation instead of a gimpy Arcanine I'd rather use Darmanitan :)

Or Chandelure if I wanted a special attacker.

Don't get me wrong, Arcanine is probably one of my most favourite pokemon of all time, it's just that having to settle for Growlithe until 45 if I want the best moveset is really annoying.

[diamondfan1910]

Originally Posted by Fat Manveru123

Swablu low. You get it rather late (right before 7th gym?). Boosted with DDs it's pretty good, but the problem is that it relies on those DDs nearly as much as Mandibuzz relies on Nasty Plot. I dragged it with me since that was my only source of Earthquake (did not manage to OHKO Darmanitan 4 levels lower even at +1 though...), but it did not see much action.

Sorry if I misunderstand but how did you get EQ on Altaria? Isn't that a post-game TM considering you find it on Route 15 which (AFAIK) you don't have access to until you beat Iris?

Also for Magnemite, never delete Metal Sound. Ever. It will win the unwinnable and defeat the undefeatable. I've written an in-depth analysis of Maggy so I might post it later, although the only stuff I wrote that I haven't seen here already are specific matchup notes and also a tl;dr about his mid-game movepool (why it sucks but doesn't push him down a tier).

[Rechi]

After playing through the game some more, I'm finding it really hard to justify using Growlithe over Darumaka. The only real advantages Arcanine has over Darmanitan is Extremespeed and Intimidate but having to use a Growlithe for most of the game just to get it's best movepool is really frustrating. I don't know if I just have a weak IV'd Growlithe or what but I was pretty much forced to make it hold Charcoal for most of the game because it missed out on easy OHKOs or 2HKOs otherwise. This meant that I couldn't let it hold Eviolite or the Lucky Egg to make training easier.

You can find Growlithe before the second gym. That means, unless you do some serious grinding, you'll be carrying around a frail (even with Intimidate) and underpowered pokemon for about 6 gyms. I think it would have been better if you were able to find Growlithe in the late 30s so you wouldn't have to work so hard to get it to its full potential.

As it stands, Growlithe is low tier for me, sorry Arcanine.

On the other Scraggy is still as amazing as he was in BW1. I feel like most of the high tier pokes from BW like Oshawott, Scraggy, Drilbur, and Darumaka still do better than a lot of the new options we've been given in BW2.

[TM13IceBeam]

i have no idea how anyone can rate N's Zorua anywhere below high

his EXP. growth is insane, and he comes when disobedience stops being an actual issue in the game. My moveset for almost the entire game was Foul Play/Snarl/Night Slash/Taunt. This moveset is terrible, through and through. Didn't stop Zorua from being awesome. The right trick imo is learning how to abuse Illusion. Disguising yourself as the appropriate Pokemon can often fuck with the AI enough to succeed (I had Zoroark disguised as Magnezone while fighting Drayden: this saved my ass as his Haxorus went for a second dragon dance and was killed by Foul Play)

(also Magnemite shouldn't need Metal Sound lol, it doesn't need to OHKO everything in existence. if it takes 1 metal sound + 1 flash cannon to beat an enemy when you could have done it in 2 flash cannons anyway, then metal sound didn't actually contribute at all)

[breh]

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

@breh: i am not interested in working with 50/50 offenses, period. Neither am I interested in catching like a bunch of azurills just to get one with Huge Power when I can just grab Mareep/Riolu and call it a day (they are also arguably more useful than Azurill, the former especially because of instant TWave)

You spend more time looking for a Riolu than an Azurill in the first place; it's a 15% chance of Huge Power Azurill vs. a 5% chance of Riolu.

On the topic of Magnemite metal sound, it is deletable after a certain point; once you get Charge Beam, Magnezone just has so much more fun. It OHKOes things even more than it already OHKOes them with +2 Thunderbolts, Discharges, etc.

@Zorua: Did anybody try teaching it Dark Pulse by tutor? I realize that the concept seems terrible (losing at PWT over and over), but after a short while, you can probably get it and do very well with it.

[TM13IceBeam]

*10%

however its noteworthy that it's not possible to identify Azurill's ability from the get go, and at such a low level its almost impossible to tell. This is important because TF Azurill sucks compared to HP Azurill. If you take this into consideration, it's probably faster trying to get Mareep instead, who contributes instantly with Thunder Wave.

[Mario With Lasers]

So, just to be sure, Mareep will be shit tier, right?

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

@Count Serperior: try counter riolu lol it works

Funnily enough, that's how my underleveled team (I'm always 2-3 levels behind the Leaders on purpose) defeated Burgh. Spamming Razor Leaf, Leavanny? Have it your way, I'll just Counter you until dawn.

Lucario is a nice pokémon; I think its only problems are lack of good STAB (lol Force Palm until lv50+) and only Rock Tomb for Flying-types unless you are lucky like me and somehow collect 11 Red Shards without doing anything so you can teach Ice Punch. Its coverage is cute, though, and lv37 Swords Dance does it wonders.