Volcarona

[shofly12]

Originally Posted by Fat Immoral Wombat

Why is everyone so determined to run a fire STAB? Rain is absolutely everywhere, and Bug+Flying gives really great coverage by itself already, and you can use the other moveslots for things like Quiver Dance, Roost, Rest, Substitute, etc. You only miss out on Skarmory and Jirachi, for which you can just run Magnezone or Heatran. Things like Ferrothorn die easily to +X Bug Buzz, and can be set up upon with Roost.

I wouldn't say Bug+Flying gives great coverage. Since notably, steel types still resist the heck out of you, which is why fire blast is important. Also, its nice to turn sun teams on themselves with a boosted Fire Blast.

[Immoral Wombat]

Originally Posted by Fat shofly12

I wouldn't say Bug+Flying gives great coverage. Since notably, steel types still resist the heck out of you, which is why fire blast is important. Also, its nice to turn sun teams on themselves with a boosted Fire Blast.

In theory, yes, steel types resist Bug+Flying. In practice, only Skarmory and Heatran do, while Bug+Fire is resisted by Jellicent, Keldeo, Tentacruel, Gyarados, Dragonite, Salamence, Heatran, Infernape and Terrakion.

With Bug+Flying over Bug+Fire(+Grass), Ferrothorn, Forretress, Metagross and Bronzong will still be beaten. You only lose coverage over Skarmory and Jirachi.

Rain is everywhere, so Fire Blast is comparable in power to a unSTABed base 90 move. Leaving two moveslots open for Quiver Dance and Roost/Substitute greatly eases setting up with Volcarona. Concluding; unless you run a sun team yourself, strongly consider Bug+Flying.

[Pocket]

Bug + Flying + Fire > Bug + Flying. Hurricane is a staple on Rain Volcarona; Fire Blast doesn't replace it.

[Immoral Wombat]

I'd argue that Bug + Flying + Roost/Substitute > Bug + Flying + Fire.
You get much more longetivety, or get to set up against status/hazing, both resulting in easier and more boosts.

What else is Fire Blast good for, other than Jirachi and Skarmory? You get to kill the other steels (except Heatran) faster, but with Roost you can boost easier/more and kill them anyway.

[Scarfwynaut]

If you want to be walled by Skarmory by all means be my guest.

[Arcticblast]

Skarmory will Whirlwind you out. Jirachi can take the time to paralyze you and then flinch the hell out of you with Iron Head. Magnezone laughs at your attacks and SubCharges you. If you don't have enough boosts, Ferrothorn either Leech Seeds or paralyzes you. Moving out of strictly OU Pokemon, Empoleon destroys you with Rain-boosted STAB attacks, sometimes wit Swords Dance. Klinklang sets up on you and hits you with Wild Charge or Return. Aggron takes a +1 Bug Buzz and destroys you with Rock STAB.

Non-Steel types: Zapdos, Thundurus-T, Rotom, Rotom-H, Rotom-S, Emolga, Archeops, Magcargo and Aerodactyl resist Bug+Flying.

You give up too much without Fire Blast.

[Thorhammer]

Doesn't make much sense to list the Fire- and Rock-types that resist Bug+Flying+Fire as well.

[Pocket]

Without Fire Blast, Rain Volcarona is forced to use Substitute. Otherwise, it threatens to be T-Waved / Leeched by daring Ferrothorns that decides to stay in. It's counter-productive, if Volcarona cannot set up on the one thing it's supposed to set up.

Changing the subject to Volcarona on non-weather teams - what do you think of Will-O-Wisp? With Wisp, Volcarona becomes more than just a late-game sweeper, but it can also support the team by luring in physical Sweepers like Terrakion, Dragonite, and Gyarados, and burn them. Burning Water-types like Politoed, Jellicent, and Gastrodon would make it even quicker to checkmate them with a Volcarona sweep later on. I guess it depends on how you play, but I like to inject Volcarona early and mid-game to force plays on the opponent, so being able to burn Pokemon would potentially make Volcarona more useful. Heatran is a problem, but all Volcarona without HP Ground are weak to it anyways. Volcarona's access to Giga Drain somewhat makes Wisp half as appealing, since the former can heavily damage Water-types, but Wisp is nonetheless a good option against any non-Fire types.

[alphatron]

So something like Wisp, quiver dance, bug buzz/giga drain, and fire blast?

I'll test it out. Rather than wall volcorona, people seem to outright switch in an immediate counter or wall against it. I have had some success using will o wisp on offensive arcanine and SR lead infernape before, so I might give it a shot. The lack of a real third attack is hurtful though.

[bluemon]

I actually made a joke specially defensive set and it actually did pretty well. I used it with amoongbro.

Volcarona @ leftovers
248 hp / 8 def / 252 SDef
Ability: flame body
Nature: Calm
-roost
-will-o-wisp
-fiery dance
-bug buzz / struggle bug / whirlwind

This set was surprisingly viable.
Roost is a great move for recovery, and it's ability and willowisp allows it to switch in on fighting moves. Fiery dance insures that volcarona won't be a set up fodder as a +1 fiery dance still hurts with no investments. The best thing I've found was struggle bug, which allowed volcarona to weaken special attacker switch ins and to strengthen the ability for amoongbro to switch in on special attackers.

You can run extra speed to outspeed jirachi and whatnot

EDIT: whirlwind is also a phenomenal move for those set up sweepers

EDIT 2: just forgot to mention that stealth rock is a bitch for a defensive mon

[Ricky Horror]

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

I actually made a joke specially defensive set and it actually did pretty well. I used it with amoongbro.

Volcarona @ leftovers
248 hp / 8 def / 252 SDef
Ability: flame body
Nature: Calm
-roost
-will-o-wisp
-fiery dance
-bug buzz / struggle bug / whirlwind

This set was surprisingly viable.
Roost is a great move for recovery, and it's ability and willowisp allows it to switch in on fighting moves. Fiery dance insures that volcarona won't be a set up fodder as a +1 fiery dance still hurts with no investments. The best thing I've found was struggle bug, which allowed volcarona to weaken special attacker switch ins and to strengthen the ability for amoongbro to switch in on special attackers.

You can run extra speed to outspeed jirachi and whatnot

EDIT: whirlwind is also a phenomenal move for those set up sweepers

EDIT 2: just forgot to mention that stealth rock is a bitch for a defensive mon

Edit 2. Which is why Volcarona is a joke of a defensive mon. You won't be allowed to switch so lightly and whirlwind just ups the factor of bringing in something that will check/counter it, yet again forcin you to switch.

[bluemon]

Originally Posted by Fat Ricky Horror

Edit 2. Which is why Volcarona is a joke of a defensive mon. You won't be allowed to switch so lightly and whirlwind just ups the factor of bringing in something that will check/counter it, yet again forcin you to switch.

But if you get rid of stealth rocks, it's a pretty good special wall. It's like articuno

[Pocket]

Originally Posted by Fat alphatron

So something like Wisp, quiver dance, bug buzz/giga drain, and fire blast?

I'll test it out. Rather than wall volcorona, people seem to outright switch in an immediate counter or wall against it. I have had some success using will o wisp on offensive arcanine and SR lead infernape before, so I might give it a shot. The lack of a real third attack is hurtful though.

What is "ideal" for the third attack? I guess it depends on the team. I've used HP Rock on my weatherless team. It provides super-effective coverage against Salamence, Dragonite, Gyrados, Thundurus (in rain), and Tornadus (in rain). HP Rock also 2HKOs offensive Heatran variants after 2~3 QDs. However, Volcarona is hopeless against specially-defensive Heatran and Terrakion (especially in sand). This is primarily the reason why I've been playing around with the idea of Will-O-Wisp idea, since it can cripple pretty much all Volcarona switch-ins not named Heatran. This is probably why Volcarona should be used in Sun teams and just blow up on opponent's team's face.

You definitely want Bug Buzz if you want Volcarona to bypass Tyranitar.