BW2 In-Game Tier List Discussion [Updated 7/24] - Page 3

EspyOwner · Jul 4th, 2012, 1:20:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

*10%

however its noteworthy that it's not possible to identify Azurill's ability from the get go

There's this thing called the internet - it's really useful for finding translations and can help you identify abilities rather easily.

As for comparing Azurill to Mareep... What?

TM13IceBeam · Jul 4th, 2012, 1:39:43 AM

._. What I meant is when you encounter it in battle...

also Mareep has instant TWave, which makes it a lot more useful than anything else you get in there.

EspyOwner · Jul 4th, 2012, 1:42:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

also Mareep has instant TWave, which makes it a lot more useful than anything else you get in there.

I don't understand what you're trying to achieve by telling people this.

It's like you're acting like we're discussing a nuzlocke and can only catch one Pokemon on the route.

TM13IceBeam · Jul 4th, 2012, 1:58:19 AM

I'm just simply noting out Mareep's immediate advantages compared to others like Azurill and Riolu?

also if anything its much more beneficial to stick to a few Pokemon at the beginning then catch a few lategame Pokemon to beef it up. the level curve in BW2 is pretty high (although still doable, my team lategame was generally 5-6 levels below everyone and I don't find it that bad). besides in terms of time taken, Mareep is a lot better than Azurill since even if you don't plan to use Mareep in the long term, Thunder Wave helps a lot earlygame, compared to say what Azurill can do. Sure, if you have all the time in the world to play BW2, then yes Azurill > Mareep.

SuperJOCKE · Jul 4th, 2012, 2:58:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Stellar

The Route 4 Hidden Hollow Minccino is fine. It's a required encounter.

Well, not required in the way you have to fight it, but it's there.

Anyways.

Ducklett is a realtively good Pokémon to use. It's available relatively early, after the fourth gym. It also gets good STAB moves early on and the provide perfect coverage (unless you magically run into Empoleon). It has Bubblebeam when you catch it, and not shortly after it learns Air Slash and Roost. On Route 6 you get Surf from Cheren, and with that it will hit pretty hard. Clay shouldn't be much of an issue, at least not Sandslash and Krookodile; Excadrill is a hard nut to crack though with only Bubblebeam. By the time you get to Skyla, it should've evolved into Swanna. Swanna is great. It's fast and has good mixed attacking stats with the aforementioned STAB moves. Skyla is not hard for it to defeat. Swoobat and Skarmory goes down to a couple of Surfs, while Air Slash should get the win against her own Swanna. As you progress through the game, Swanna gets a little weaker over time and will need to hits to KO its opponents. Drayden can be a hard for Swanna to beat, especially since it has to rely on Air Slash to KO his Dragons; Swanna's frailty is also problematic for it. Marlon is the same, and Swanna shouldn't stand chance against Jellicent without Brave Bird it learns at lv. 47.

Swanna is a mixed bag. It is fast and hits kinda hard, while it can go mixed. Though it is frail and can't take many powerful hits from its opponent, espacially late-game. But with perfect coverage throughout the game, and powerful moves on top of that, it's still pretty great.

Mid Tier I say.

Manveru123 · Jul 4th, 2012, 4:20:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat diamondfan1910

Sorry if I misunderstand but how did you get EQ on Altaria? Isn't that a post-game TM considering you find it on Route 15 which (AFAIK) you don't have access to until you beat Iris?

I was actually using Bulldoze, Earthquake-source is just my random mind shortcut for a ground move user in my team. Sorry for confusion I'll be more specific in the future.

Oh and by the way, about the discussion above, considering you get Magmenite shortly after Sangi Ranch, there seems to be little point in using Mareep, unless for some reason you feel like you need 2 electric types :P

Antihaxxer · Jul 4th, 2012, 4:55:56 AM

The advantage of Mareep is ...
Fire/Ice punch (lol)
Signal Beam without Tutor
Power Gem for a nice sp attack (vs Flash cannon stabbed) ?

Electric / Rock / Bug have a better coverage than Electric / Steel / Bug ?

Manveru123 · Jul 4th, 2012, 5:16:54 AM

Yeah but when we're talking about in-game, Magnemite's typing gives him some serious advantages. He walls Team Plasma and only gym he can't easily solo is 5th.

TM13IceBeam · Jul 4th, 2012, 5:52:31 AM

Yeah I agree, Mareep is pretty bad compared to Magnemite, but Mareep doesn't have a weakness to Fire and Fighting, can TWave things immediately, and has arguably better coverage than Magnemite, who's stuck with Steel/Electric/Sonicboom for a long while.

Steel is probably the one typing you WANT to have in this game. So many resistances and the only thing you actually lose to is Scraggy/Sandile.

Zelen · Jul 4th, 2012, 6:20:35 AM

I agree with Mid-Tier for Riolu-line. It starts as a killing machine after it has learned Force Palm but will struggle against most gym leaders and trainers for most of the game. Counter was pretty nice when it worked out but usually I found myself being forced to switch Lucario out because of Fire and Ground pokémon/moves which seems to be everywhere in BW2.

My Lucario started to shine against E4 when it got a chance for couple of Work Up + CC and it Quick Attacked Iris' Haxorus out. <3

Axew-line for High Tier/Top Tier. Do I need to explain? DD + Dragon Claw/Shadow Claw OHKOs everything and you can solo rest of the game if you feel like so. The only flaw is that you have to wait until Cheren gives you Surf TM to have a chance to catch one of these cute killing machines. Steel-types may cause some pain too. :p Fraxure evolves into Haxorus at lvl 48 which is right before last gym so you you will sweep rest of the Team Plasma, transformed Kyurem and E4 like nothing.

moonbound · Jul 4th, 2012, 11:40:53 AM

Darumaka for high tier for the exact same reason as BW1. Solos Burgh's gym except for the 2 or 3 dwebbles, and can outspeed and 2hko almost everything for the rest of the game with a moveset of Fire stab/dig/rock slide/doesn't even matter (hammer arm or normal move most likely)

King Serperior · Jul 4th, 2012, 12:28:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat OP

Route 7: Zebstrika, Zangoose, Seviper, Cubchoo [Winter only]

Does anyone have any thoughts about Seviper? It seems like you get it pretty late, but it should be a fair powerhouse (frail though). From my past experience, its mixed coverage and good speed should counteract that fraility.

I'm asking because I'm planning on using it when it comes out in the US.

TM13IceBeam · Jul 4th, 2012, 12:55:18 PM

seviper has pretty bad exp. gain and his 'mixed coverage' isn't exactly there when the level up moves he has are all poison/normal + night slash/crunch and his TM coverage is limited to loldig and rock smash (x-scissor is postgame iirc and you get flamethrower very late)

not really worth it imo

Ondore · Jul 4th, 2012, 12:59:28 PM

X-Scissor is actually available on the same route Seviper is.

SuperJOCKE · Jul 4th, 2012, 1:30:16 PM

Yeah, have to agree with Mr. Ice Beam there. With most of its coverage moves, such as Earthquake and Flamethrower, available late-game or post-game, I don't think it's the most viable option out there. X-scissor doesn't do anything Night Slash and its Poison STAB doesn't either. Plus, its 65 base Speed is a bit of a ler down when coupled with its relative frailness. It's a cool Pokémon though, so use if you really like it (it's for worth it for the coolness factor), but if you want the best of the best, then don't go with Seviper; it's just not one of them.

Carl · Jul 4th, 2012, 3:39:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Gazooki

Crustle (Yes, I'm being incredibly specific here for a reason)

The Crustle you can catch in the Seaside Cave is no use against Marlon for obvious reasons, but just you watch as he ploughs through Team Plasma's Frigate all on his own (this is precisely what I ended up doing). Just one level off Shell Smash when you capture it (easily remedied with a Rare Candy) and equipped with Sturdy, you can almost guarantee a sweep. Hell, sometimes you can manage two Shell Smashes and almost everything will fall to a Rock Slide, X-Scissor or Bulldoze. Caitlin got absolutely crushed by Crustle. Oh, and so did Black Kyurem. Couldn't KO me with its Fusion Bolt, got off Shell Smash, managed survive another hit and then BAM, dead Kyurem. Didn't go nearly so well vs Ghetsis, mind.

One thing that sucks about Crustle is his speed. 45 speed is slow. With one Shell Smash you bring that up to 90, which can put you past most of the weak stuff the Plasma Grunts bring out (and the majority of Caitlin's team) but against faster opponents you could well be setting yourself up for nothing but disappointment...

Still, I'd say High Tier simply based on how destructive Crustle can be if used properly.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding or did something wrong but it seems as though you can't get this Crustle until after you've obtained all 8 gym badges. I tried to capture it before the water gym but was unable to move it. I later learned that I needed an item first, which doesn't come until after you have the 8th badge. At this point, you can just catch Terrakion instead which fills pretty much the same niche but does it better. Swords Dance in 4 levels, can teach it Bulldoze, and Sacred Sword is arguably better than X-Scissor. It's just hard for me to claim something is high tier when you get it so late and there's a significantly better pokemon available simultaneously that does the same thing. Also, I'm in the low 50s at this point so a pokemon 10 levels behind doesn't seem like it would do me much good.

OVERGRO · Jul 4th, 2012, 8:32:47 PM

How easy is it to get heart scales? Do you have enough for the Miniccio?

And also you need to use your Shiny Stone. Using all those items must make it less than top tier, mid to high, because you need external things to make it work.

**Nexus** · Jul 4th, 2012, 8:38:14 PM

I used the in-game skill link cinccino and it's not hard to get the moves you want on it soon after obtaining it. By the time I reached driftveil I had 5 heart scales (only need 2 if you want bullet seed/rock blast) and the move relearner is right in the PWT. The shiny stone can be obtained easily on route 6 from the little girl in the house, ~~besides there's nothing else to waste it on at that point~~.

Fucking serebii missed that location. -___-

Serious_Business · Jul 4th, 2012, 9:57:50 PM

Roselia also becomes available around the same time as the Minccino, so there's a slight issue if you want to use Roserade and Cinccino. Then again, I'd imagine you'd want to keep Roselia unevolved until 37 for Petal Dance, and by then you could probably get your hands on a second.

Antihaxxer · Jul 6th, 2012, 2:51:42 AM

With Strength and Flamewheel then Flameburst, I don't have any problem with my Growlithe ! Mid tier at least !

I suggest putting up Sandile to Mid High tier ! He come before the 3rd gym, he have nice coverage with Bite / Crunch, Dig TM, Rock Tomb TM very fast (before the 4rd gym), he can help against 4th gym, Excadrill, and can battle and win easily every big trainers with Moxie (especially in Elite 4). He has to go out in 6th and 8th gym and he's very frail !

EspyOwner · Jul 6th, 2012, 4:55:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Serious_Business

Roselia also becomes available around the same time as the Minccino, so there's a slight issue if you want to use Roserade and Cinccino. Then again, I'd imagine you'd want to keep Roselia unevolved until 37 for Petal Dance, and by then you could probably get your hands on a second.

There are two Shiny Stones easily available, the first on Route 6 and the second is found by dousing somewhere in one of those towns near Opeculid if I remember correctly.

I personally have both Roserade and Cinccino on my team at the moment.

Manveru123 · Jul 6th, 2012, 6:23:27 AM

On the note of Azumarill. I'm not sure if breeding is considered "too much work", but assuming you don't care about IVs or Nature (it's for in game use after all), you could end up with an Azumarill with Aqua Jet and Huge Power. Solves his speed issues at least.

Aqua Jet might miss out on some OHKOs but it shouldn't be bad considering its priority and overall Azumarill's bulk.

TM13IceBeam · Jul 6th, 2012, 8:48:02 AM

The daycare centre is unavailable until postgame. So nope.

Manveru123 · Jul 6th, 2012, 10:06:10 AM

Is it? Damn... Well nevermind then.

Doom Chaos · Jul 6th, 2012, 10:35:29 AM

Mareep for High / Top Tier

Availability: Early
Stats: Medium-High (Very sturdy)
Typing: Good (lack of multiple weaknesses help its tankish role)

Mareep is a good Pokemon. Its access to early-game Thunder Wave is extremely useful and it is an excellent Strenght slave (you need one, and this guy doesn't need all of its moves; Electric-STAB is mostly enough). Mareep still has a pretty nice match-up against important Trainers overall (except Clay, for obvious reasons). It may not be as efficient as Magnemite, but the latter should not influence Mareep's tiering.

Thunder Wave ( / Discharge / Static abuse) can be kept throughout the whole game to help catch Legendaries and cripple tough Pokemon if you really are in trouble of getting swept.

Jul 4th, 2012, 1:39:43 AM	#52
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	._. What I meant is when you encounter it in battle... also Mareep has instant TWave, which makes it a lot more useful than anything else you get in there. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Jul 4th, 2012, 1:58:19 AM	#54
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	I'm just simply noting out Mareep's immediate advantages compared to others like Azurill and Riolu? also if anything its much more beneficial to stick to a few Pokemon at the beginning then catch a few lategame Pokemon to beef it up. the level curve in BW2 is pretty high (although still doable, my team lategame was generally 5-6 levels below everyone and I don't find it that bad). besides in terms of time taken, Mareep is a lot better than Azurill since even if you don't plan to use Mareep in the long term, Thunder Wave helps a lot earlygame, compared to say what Azurill can do. Sure, if you have all the time in the world to play BW2, then yes Azurill > Mareep. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Jul 4th, 2012, 5:52:31 AM	#59
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	Yeah I agree, Mareep is pretty bad compared to Magnemite, but Mareep doesn't have a weakness to Fire and Fighting, can TWave things immediately, and has arguably better coverage than Magnemite, who's stuck with Steel/Electric/Sonicboom for a long while. Steel is probably the one typing you WANT to have in this game. So many resistances and the only thing you actually lose to is Scraggy/Sandile. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Jul 4th, 2012, 6:20:35 AM	#60
Zelen Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 224 Finland	I agree with Mid-Tier for Riolu-line. It starts as a killing machine after it has learned Force Palm but will struggle against most gym leaders and trainers for most of the game. Counter was pretty nice when it worked out but usually I found myself being forced to switch Lucario out because of Fire and Ground pokémon/moves which seems to be everywhere in BW2. My Lucario started to shine against E4 when it got a chance for couple of Work Up + CC and it Quick Attacked Iris' Haxorus out. <3 Axew-line for High Tier/Top Tier. Do I need to explain? DD + Dragon Claw/Shadow Claw OHKOs everything and you can solo rest of the game if you feel like so. The only flaw is that you have to wait until Cheren gives you Surf TM to have a chance to catch one of these cute killing machines. Steel-types may cause some pain too. :p Fraxure evolves into Haxorus at lvl 48 which is right before last gym so you you will sweep rest of the Team Plasma, transformed Kyurem and E4 like nothing. __________________ ~ Trade thread of wonders ~ SS FC: 5071 1875 7346 \| Black FC: 2924 4997 3221 \| Black 2 (Jpn) FC: 1807 8427 5857 Free cookies, I mean pokémon.

Jul 4th, 2012, 12:55:18 PM	#63
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	seviper has pretty bad exp. gain and his 'mixed coverage' isn't exactly there when the level up moves he has are all poison/normal + night slash/crunch and his TM coverage is limited to loldig and rock smash (x-scissor is postgame iirc and you get flamethrower very late) not really worth it imo __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Jul 4th, 2012, 4:55:56 AM	#57
Antihaxxer Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 336	The advantage of Mareep is ... Fire/Ice punch (lol) Signal Beam without Tutor Power Gem for a nice sp attack (vs Flash cannon stabbed) ? Electric / Rock / Bug have a better coverage than Electric / Steel / Bug ?

Jul 4th, 2012, 5:16:54 AM	#58
Manveru123 Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 150	Yeah but when we're talking about in-game, Magnemite's typing gives him some serious advantages. He walls Team Plasma and only gym he can't easily solo is 5th.

Jul 4th, 2012, 11:40:53 AM	#61
moonbound Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 549 Let me teach you the secret of bodybuilding. First thing: Protein. Second thing: Protein.	Darumaka for high tier for the exact same reason as BW1. Solos Burgh's gym except for the 2 or 3 dwebbles, and can outspeed and 2hko almost everything for the rest of the game with a moveset of Fire stab/dig/rock slide/doesn't even matter (hammer arm or normal move most likely)

Jul 4th, 2012, 12:59:28 PM	#64
Ondore Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 327 Real men use dragons	X-Scissor is actually available on the same route Seviper is. __________________ "To right the countless wrongs of our day, we shine this light of true redemption, that this place may become as paradise. What a wonderful world such would be..."

Jul 4th, 2012, 1:30:16 PM	#65
SuperJOCKE Low Tier Warrior! Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,994 Location: Sweden Mentor	Yeah, have to agree with Mr. Ice Beam there. With most of its coverage moves, such as Earthquake and Flamethrower, available late-game or post-game, I don't think it's the most viable option out there. X-scissor doesn't do anything Night Slash and its Poison STAB doesn't either. Plus, its 65 base Speed is a bit of a ler down when coupled with its relative frailness. It's a cool Pokémon though, so use if you really like it (it's for worth it for the coolness factor), but if you want the best of the best, then don't go with Seviper; it's just not one of them. __________________

Jul 4th, 2012, 8:32:47 PM	#67
OVERGRO Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 300 Attack, Deoxys! ATTACK!	How easy is it to get heart scales? Do you have enough for the Miniccio? And also you need to use your Shiny Stone. Using all those items must make it less than top tier, mid to high, because you need external things to make it work. __________________ ♫-♪-♫ Smogon's Current Hot [#] List Humanitas.

Jul 4th, 2012, 8:38:14 PM	#68
Nexus Hate is an everlasting wellspring from which it is eternally sustained. Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,378 Mentor	I used the in-game skill link cinccino and it's not hard to get the moves you want on it soon after obtaining it. By the time I reached driftveil I had 5 heart scales (only need 2 if you want bullet seed/rock blast) and the move relearner is right in the PWT. The shiny stone can be obtained easily on route 6 from the little girl in the house, ~~besides there's nothing else to waste it on at that point~~. Fucking serebii missed that location. -___- __________________ Last edited by Nexus; Jul 4th, 2012 at 10:14:54 PM.

Jul 4th, 2012, 9:57:50 PM	#69
Serious_Business Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 55	Roselia also becomes available around the same time as the Minccino, so there's a slight issue if you want to use Roserade and Cinccino. Then again, I'd imagine you'd want to keep Roselia unevolved until 37 for Petal Dance, and by then you could probably get your hands on a second.

Jul 6th, 2012, 2:51:42 AM	#70
Antihaxxer Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 336	With Strength and Flamewheel then Flameburst, I don't have any problem with my Growlithe ! Mid tier at least ! I suggest putting up Sandile to Mid High tier ! He come before the 3rd gym, he have nice coverage with Bite / Crunch, Dig TM, Rock Tomb TM very fast (before the 4rd gym), he can help against 4th gym, Excadrill, and can battle and win easily every big trainers with Moxie (especially in Elite 4). He has to go out in 6th and 8th gym and he's very frail ! Last edited by Antihaxxer; Jul 6th, 2012 at 4:05:47 AM.

Jul 6th, 2012, 6:23:27 AM	#72
Manveru123 Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 150	On the note of Azumarill. I'm not sure if breeding is considered "too much work", but assuming you don't care about IVs or Nature (it's for in game use after all), you could end up with an Azumarill with Aqua Jet and Huge Power. Solves his speed issues at least. Aqua Jet might miss out on some OHKOs but it shouldn't be bad considering its priority and overall Azumarill's bulk.

Jul 6th, 2012, 8:48:02 AM	#73
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	The daycare centre is unavailable until postgame. So nope. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Jul 6th, 2012, 10:06:10 AM	#74
Manveru123 Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 150	Is it? Damn... Well nevermind then.

Jul 6th, 2012, 10:35:29 AM	#75
Doom Chaos Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 186 Fennekin for Fire/Fighting	Mareep for High / Top Tier Availability: Early Stats: Medium-High (Very sturdy) Typing: Good (lack of multiple weaknesses help its tankish role) Mareep is a good Pokemon. Its access to early-game Thunder Wave is extremely useful and it is an excellent Strenght slave (you need one, and this guy doesn't need all of its moves; Electric-STAB is mostly enough). Mareep still has a pretty nice match-up against important Trainers overall (except Clay, for obvious reasons). It may not be as efficient as Magnemite, but the latter should not influence Mareep's tiering. Thunder Wave ( / Discharge / Static abuse) can be kept throughout the whole game to help catch Legendaries and cripple tough Pokemon if you really are in trouble of getting swept.