Keldeo

**Furai** · Jun 25th, 2012, 3:11:51 PM

Keldeo

Justified ability
91 HP / 72 Atk / 90 Def / 129 SpA / 90 SpD / 108 Spe

Level-up Moves

TM & HM

Move Tutors

PONY. It's finally released, and even got a new visual forme! I sure have been waiting for this one to come. It has fantastic STABs, great Special Attack, respectible Speed, and access to two forms of setup in Calm Mind and Swords Dance. It's signature move, Secret Sword, acts exactly like the infamous Psystrike, only being weaker by 15 BP and being a Fighting-type move. With Calm Mind, Secret Sword, and Hydro Pump, it can be quite threatening; 4 HP Kyogre takes 66% minimum from +1 Secret Sword. With Life Orb, it's 87.5% to OHKO after Stealth Rock! Its STABs aren't resisted by a lot of Pokemon in Ubers either. Only Giratina, Tentacruel, Rayquaza, Shaymin-S, and ~~the currently rare~~ Lati@s, which are now backed by Soul Dew. That's not much, and Keldeo can easily get past them with the proper Hidden Power!

But the usage of Keldeo in Ubers is hanging in the balance. While it does have its qualities, Keldeo is held back by its mediocre Speed. It's outsped by common threats such as Arceus and Mewtwo, and it's defenses aren't exactly great. Weakness to Electric-, Grass-, and Psychic-type moves is not doing any favors either. But perhaps the thing I find the most glaring: Keldeo does not have access to Ice Beam! This means Keldeo will have to settle with Hidden Power Ice in order to hit the Dragon-types lurking in the tier.

So, let's see what can it do for us, Ubers players. What sets can it run effectively? What Pokemon does it beat? Will it have an impact on Ubers? Which role can it fulfill in a team? Is it outclassed by other Pokemon in the tier, or is worth the slot in your team? Happy discussion!

Twins · Jun 25th, 2012, 3:33:48 PM

108 speed is not mediocre at all. In fact, it pretty much outspeeds the entire Uber tier. Sure, Mewtwo and Arceus are rather common, but you wouldn't say that Landorus has mediocre speed in OU because it is outspeed by Terrakion, Gengar, and Latios, would you?

That being said, Keldeo will do very well in the Ubers tier, since, you know, Kyogre has ~50% usage. Its STAB moves are even more effective in Ubers than in OU (no Jellicent or Lati@s yay), and its is just versatile enough to run viable sets, such as Scarf, Specs, and CM. In the end, though, they all rely on the sheer power of a Rain boosted STAB Hydro Pump.

I don't think it is outclassed by anything in the tier. 129 base special attack is just enough to compete in ubers, and 108 base speed is great. There really aren't many other choices for Rain sweepers, beside your standard Choice Kyogre and Palkia, so Keldeo will most likely fit right in.

Usage wise though, I don't see it cracking the top 20, simply because for most teams, Kyogre abuses Rain well enough.

Lavos Spawn · Jun 25th, 2012, 3:36:27 PM

Keldeo is never going to find a niche in Ubers, whether it gets banned from Ou or not. Too many fast and powerful pokes exist in the tier for it to really have any impact, not to mention that Giratina walls it to hell and back.

Sorry, Keldeo, I still love you.

Twins · Jun 26th, 2012, 2:14:39 AM

Yeah, that's the problem. Keldeo is a good pokemon, even in Ubers, it just doesn't fit in anywhere, except on a dedicated Rain team. And no one runs those. Rain is more of a utility for most Uber teams, not a play style.

Splendiferous · Jun 26th, 2012, 2:40:46 AM

66% from +1 stab move to 4hp kyogre is pretty shit actually. +1 psytrike from mewtwo almost KOs max HP kyogre in comparison.

Anikrahman1995 · Jun 26th, 2012, 4:14:36 AM

Keldeo in ubers will be overhyped for some time and then will be forgotten. Giratina has no problems phazzing it or calm minding alongside it. Whats it gonna do? Try to KO giratina with 4pp Hydro Pump(Pressure). For a fighting type, its a shame it cant even stop extremekiller arceus.

**Furai** · Jun 26th, 2012, 10:37:51 AM

Yup, Soul Dew is out. That's going to be a pain for Keldeo, which is now just walled to infinity and back by the Lati twins. However, in rain, +1 Life Orb Keldeo has a good chance—81.64%, to be exact—to 2HKO +0 252/0 Soul Dew Latias with a rain boosted Hydro Pump! That's actually pretty surprising, if to be honest. Soul Dew Latios, on the other hand, is always 2HKOed by the same Keldeo and conditions. While it may not be as useful, as both the Lati twins outspeed Keldeo and have Roost, I think it's a good demonstration of Keldeo's power in rain after a boost.

-Sun · Jun 27th, 2012, 12:01:05 PM

I think that as a special rain sweeper keldeo has trouble fitting in what with palkia, kyogre (and manaphy) filling the special rain abuser slot better... and as a physical attacker it really doesn't have the offenses (72 attack) to do Anything in Ubers... I mean +6 SD jolly keldeo Needs LO just to 2HKO giratina..... anything else at +6 in Ubers would KO Optimus Prime with tail whip... and it's base 91/90/90 defenses are just not good enough for ubers.
Don't get me wrong, I absoloutely LOVE keldeo (and I'm a guy so yeah).. but i just don't think it's capable of surviving as a threat in the ubers environment, maybe it could get banned from OU but then it would just be a gimmick for the creative uber pokemon thread
+6 Adamant LO Keldeo Aqua Tail vs. Great Wall Giratina - 53.7%- 63.2% (2HKO at +6?)
+6 Jolly LO Keldeo Aqua Tail vs. Great Wall Giratina - 48.9% - 57.9% (small chance for missing out on 2HKO, at +6)
without and LO it's only a 2HKO with some hazards.... 37.8% - 44.5%
so SD Keldeo is out of the question IMO.... special keldeo maybe, physical NO

HybridHerp · Jul 8th, 2012, 2:04:33 AM

I've used a calm mind set with moderate success

excuse me if my formatting looks weird, I'm just copying straight off of my PO file

Keldeo-R @ Leftovers
Trait: Justified
EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Ghost]

I run 192 speed to outrun base 100's (although in hindsight it looks like it is out speeded by jolly garchomp, but that is easily fixable) and HP ghost to take care of things like arceus ghost and the giratina forms. The extra ev's are just placed into HP. I can generally get in a calm mind and do some damage, and I feel like Keldeo works best in ubers after other pokemon have been weakened and it can then setup and cleanup.

I do have to wonder though if arceus water does not outclass this? Not only is arceus faster, it is bulkier and has access to moves like shadow ball and ice beam.

Keldeo does have a higher special attack however, and does get stab secret sword which is a very nice thing to have. I don't use my Keldeo on a team with rain support but it does get the job done I suppose.

Jun 25th, 2012, 3:11:51 PM	#1
Furai standing in the eye of the hurricane Moderator Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,082	Keldeo Keldeo Justified ability 91 HP / 72 Atk / 90 Def / 129 SpA / 90 SpD / 108 Spe Level-up Moves Level 1 - Aqua Jet Level 1 - Leer Level 7 - Double Kick Level 13 - Bubblebeam Level 19 - Take Down Level 25 - Helping Hand Level 31 - Retaliate Level 37 - Aqua Tail Level 43 - Sacred Sword Level 49 - Swords Dance Level 55 - Quick Guard Level 61 - Work Up Level 67 - Hydro Pump Level 73 - Close Combat TM & HM TM04 - Calm Mind TM05 - Roar TM06 - Toxic TM07 - Hail TM10 - Hidden Power TM12 - Taunt TM15 - Hyper Beam TM17 - Protect TM18 - Rain Dance TM20 - Safeguard TM21 - Frustration TM27 - Return TM32 - Double Team TM33 - Reflect TM40 - Aerial Ace TM42 - Facade TM44 - Rest TM48 - Round TM52 - Focus Blast TM54 - False Swipe TM55 - Scald TM67 - Retaliate TM68 - Giga Impact TM71 - Stone Edge TM75 - Swords Dance TM77 - Psych Up TM81 - X-Scissor TM83 - Work Up TM84 - Poison Jab TM87 - Swagger TM90 - Substitute TM94 - Rock Smash HM01 - Cut HM03 - Surf HM04 - Strength Move Tutors Secret Sword, Aqua Tail, Bounce, Covet, Endeavor, Helping Hand, Icy Wind, Last Resort, Sleep Talk, Snore, Superpower Gen 4 only. Rest are Gen 5. PONY. It's finally released, and even got a new visual forme! I sure have been waiting for this one to come. It has fantastic STABs, great Special Attack, respectible Speed, and access to two forms of setup in Calm Mind and Swords Dance. It's signature move, Secret Sword, acts exactly like the infamous Psystrike, only being weaker by 15 BP and being a Fighting-type move. With Calm Mind, Secret Sword, and Hydro Pump, it can be quite threatening; 4 HP Kyogre takes 66% minimum from +1 Secret Sword. With Life Orb, it's 87.5% to OHKO after Stealth Rock! Its STABs aren't resisted by a lot of Pokemon in Ubers either. Only Giratina, Tentacruel, Rayquaza, Shaymin-S, and ~~the currently rare~~ Lati@s, which are now backed by Soul Dew. That's not much, and Keldeo can easily get past them with the proper Hidden Power! But the usage of Keldeo in Ubers is hanging in the balance. While it does have its qualities, Keldeo is held back by its mediocre Speed. It's outsped by common threats such as Arceus and Mewtwo, and it's defenses aren't exactly great. Weakness to Electric-, Grass-, and Psychic-type moves is not doing any favors either. But perhaps the thing I find the most glaring: Keldeo does not have access to Ice Beam! This means Keldeo will have to settle with Hidden Power Ice in order to hit the Dragon-types lurking in the tier. So, let's see what can it do for us, Ubers players. What sets can it run effectively? What Pokemon does it beat? Will it have an impact on Ubers? Which role can it fulfill in a team? Is it outclassed by other Pokemon in the tier, or is worth the slot in your team? Happy discussion! __________________ *#gohard* \| Wolfpack (Ubers RMT) Last edited by Furai; Aug 10th, 2012 at 4:02:37 PM.

Jun 25th, 2012, 3:33:48 PM	#2
Twins Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 104 Igloo land drinking maple syrup	108 speed is not mediocre at all. In fact, it pretty much outspeeds the entire Uber tier. Sure, Mewtwo and Arceus are rather common, but you wouldn't say that Landorus has mediocre speed in OU because it is outspeed by Terrakion, Gengar, and Latios, would you? That being said, Keldeo will do very well in the Ubers tier, since, you know, Kyogre has ~50% usage. Its STAB moves are even more effective in Ubers than in OU (no Jellicent or Lati@s yay), and its is just versatile enough to run viable sets, such as Scarf, Specs, and CM. In the end, though, they all rely on the sheer power of a Rain boosted STAB Hydro Pump. I don't think it is outclassed by anything in the tier. 129 base special attack is just enough to compete in ubers, and 108 base speed is great. There really aren't many other choices for Rain sweepers, beside your standard Choice Kyogre and Palkia, so Keldeo will most likely fit right in. Usage wise though, I don't see it cracking the top 20, simply because for most teams, Kyogre abuses Rain well enough. Last edited by Twins; Jun 26th, 2012 at 2:12:27 AM.

Jun 26th, 2012, 10:37:51 AM	#7
Furai standing in the eye of the hurricane Moderator Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,082	Yup, Soul Dew is out. That's going to be a pain for Keldeo, which is now just walled to infinity and back by the Lati twins. However, in rain, +1 Life Orb Keldeo has a good chance—81.64%, to be exact—to 2HKO +0 252/0 Soul Dew Latias with a rain boosted Hydro Pump! That's actually pretty surprising, if to be honest. Soul Dew Latios, on the other hand, is always 2HKOed by the same Keldeo and conditions. While it may not be as useful, as both the Lati twins outspeed Keldeo and have Roost, I think it's a good demonstration of Keldeo's power in rain after a boost. __________________ *#gohard* \| Wolfpack (Ubers RMT)

Jun 27th, 2012, 12:01:05 PM	#8
-Sun Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 25	I think that as a special rain sweeper keldeo has trouble fitting in what with palkia, kyogre (and manaphy) filling the special rain abuser slot better... and as a physical attacker it really doesn't have the offenses (72 attack) to do Anything in Ubers... I mean +6 SD jolly keldeo Needs LO just to 2HKO giratina..... anything else at +6 in Ubers would KO Optimus Prime with tail whip... and it's base 91/90/90 defenses are just not good enough for ubers. Don't get me wrong, I absoloutely LOVE keldeo (and I'm a guy so yeah).. but i just don't think it's capable of surviving as a threat in the ubers environment, maybe it could get banned from OU but then it would just be a gimmick for the creative uber pokemon thread +6 Adamant LO Keldeo Aqua Tail vs. Great Wall Giratina - 53.7%- 63.2% (2HKO at +6?) +6 Jolly LO Keldeo Aqua Tail vs. Great Wall Giratina - 48.9% - 57.9% (small chance for missing out on 2HKO, at +6) without and LO it's only a 2HKO with some hazards.... 37.8% - 44.5% so SD Keldeo is out of the question IMO.... special keldeo maybe, physical NO Last edited by -Sun; Jun 27th, 2012 at 12:09:11 PM. Reason: adding calcs

Jun 25th, 2012, 3:36:27 PM	#3
Lavos Spawn our state of zen Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,160 Mentor	Keldeo is never going to find a niche in Ubers, whether it gets banned from Ou or not. Too many fast and powerful pokes exist in the tier for it to really have any impact, not to mention that Giratina walls it to hell and back. Sorry, Keldeo, I still love you.

Jun 26th, 2012, 2:14:39 AM	#4
Twins Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 104 Igloo land drinking maple syrup	Yeah, that's the problem. Keldeo is a good pokemon, even in Ubers, it just doesn't fit in anywhere, except on a dedicated Rain team. And no one runs those. Rain is more of a utility for most Uber teams, not a play style.

Jun 26th, 2012, 2:40:46 AM	#5
Splendiferous Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 94	66% from +1 stab move to 4hp kyogre is pretty shit actually. +1 psytrike from mewtwo almost KOs max HP kyogre in comparison.

Jun 26th, 2012, 4:14:36 AM	#6
Anikrahman1995 Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 352 In my bedroom	Keldeo in ubers will be overhyped for some time and then will be forgotten. Giratina has no problems phazzing it or calm minding alongside it. Whats it gonna do? Try to KO giratina with 4pp Hydro Pump(Pressure). For a fighting type, its a shame it cant even stop extremekiller arceus.

Jul 8th, 2012, 2:04:33 AM	#9
HybridHerp Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 7	I've used a calm mind set with moderate success excuse me if my formatting looks weird, I'm just copying straight off of my PO file Keldeo-R @ Leftovers Trait: Justified EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Calm Mind - Hydro Pump - Secret Sword - Hidden Power [Ghost] I run 192 speed to outrun base 100's (although in hindsight it looks like it is out speeded by jolly garchomp, but that is easily fixable) and HP ghost to take care of things like arceus ghost and the giratina forms. The extra ev's are just placed into HP. I can generally get in a calm mind and do some damage, and I feel like Keldeo works best in ubers after other pokemon have been weakened and it can then setup and cleanup. I do have to wonder though if arceus water does not outclass this? Not only is arceus faster, it is bulkier and has access to moves like shadow ball and ice beam. Keldeo does have a higher special attack however, and does get stab secret sword which is a very nice thing to have. I don't use my Keldeo on a team with rain support but it does get the job done I suppose.