(Ubers) mtr's Ubers Sand Team

mtr · Jul 7th, 2012, 12:57:04 PM

A lot of the Sand Teams that have been posted recently are offensive ones, so I wanted to post a balanced or stallish team to give you guys something new to look at hehe. Also I wanted to get people's advice on specific movesets to make my team as good as possible.

After 2 days of grinding this team is in the Ubers Top 25, but that doesn't mean anything because the ladder is shit as usual. I've seen more Rattatas than I've seen any Arceus that isn't Normal or Ghost.

In the old version of this team I used to have Blissey rather than Excadrill, but I changed it out since Excadrill is better at checking Darkrai in Sand, and Blissey was kinda redundant with Rock Arceus+Latias. Right now, Latios and Mewtwo are the most pressing concerns, everything else can be dealt with to some extent. DDRay is also a slight issue, so I'm thinking of using Ice Fang on Hippo, and moving Toxic onto Forry to deal with all this stuff.

Also to make this team better against stall I was thinking of making Giratina the Mono-CMer, and Rockceus a Perish Song/Support set with Fire Blast for Forry/Ferro.

In this team, the first move listed is the move I currently use. The next one slashed in is what I'm considering. Pokemon changes are also cool, but I think the way to make this team the best it can be really involves just optimizing movesets.

At a Glance:

Fairly textbook bulky Sand team, but I use Excadrill instead of a Scarfer for a better matchup against rival stallish teams.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SDef
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Roar / Ice Fang
---------
You can't have a Sand Team without Sand. Tbh, I think it's a great weather conditions in Ubers, because not many things resist it. Sand means that enemy Leftovers are nullified, and enemies with Life Orb get shredded.

Besides the Sand, I run Hippowdon as a Zekrom/Groudon/Rayquaza check, and my SR Setup. Roar is a better move overall, but Ice Fang has its uses against Rayquaza and Gliscor, who worry me a bit.

I usually lead with Hippowdon to set up Sand, unless I predict a Forry lead, in which case I'll probably use Excadrill to spin everything away or get a free SD boost.

Besides Sand, why run Hippowdon over Groudon?
Because instant recovery is a pretty big deal on a team with no Wish user. And even otherwise: Slack Off is just really cool. Groudon is better on most teams because of better offensive/defensive stats, but Hippowdon is a Pokemon that is certainly viable in Ubers.

Arceus @ Stone Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 176 Spd
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Refresh
- Recover
---------
Special Tank and Mono Attacker, this dude checks a litany of threats in Sand , which sends his SDef through the roof. And as a Mono Attacker, he becomes a powerful tool against rival stall teams relying on Blissey. Seriously, this dude's defense level can go over 9000. After a Calm Mind, this guy takes 19-22.5% in Sand from a +1 Latias Dragon Pulse, he's that tanky.

In general, he's my main check to Kyurem-W, Reshiram, Thundurus, Ho-oh, Latias, Sub Darkrai, SD Rayquaza, etc. His Groudon-weakness doesn't rly matter because Hippowdon/Giratina deal with it.

Also I was thinking of using a support set with Perish Song and Flamethrower over Calm Mind and Refresh, because Ferrothorn is kinda a nuisance for this team. However, it does have less of an offensive threat than this one, and gets derped by Toxic.

Also, Psychic Arceus (I'm serious) is a viable choice over the Rock form for a stronger matchup against Mewtwo/Latias/Latios, but Sand hurts it rather than helping.

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 6 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Toxic
--------
Set up hazards, sponge Outrages. It's kinda cool that I get to use 2 moves rather than one because Excadrill is spinning. Hidden Power Ice is what I currently use, since it hits Rayquaza/Gliscor/Skymin. But I was thinking of Toxic to wear down spinblockers and cripple Lati Twins (or just dudes looking to set up).

Pain Split is a strong move on Forry because in Ubers, everyone has crazy HP, so more often than not Forry becomes deceptively tanky. Especially with his good typing, so he can set up on a lot of dudes. I would like to use Pain Split in conjunction with Payback, but there isn't really much room for Payback, and it's sorta outclassed by Toxic as a way of dealing with Gira-O now, though it may be better vs. Mewtwo if anyone still used Taunt/CM.

Latias @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 6 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder
- Recover
--------
My main check to Kyogre, and a lot of the random Arceus forms that Rockceus can't handle. Also outspeeds Palkia, which is cool, though Palkia is less of an issue for this team because of Rockceus.

I use the Calm Minder set so I don't lose games to Calm Mind wars (that Rockceus can't win). Thunder is the preferred move for coverage, and because HP Fire lowers your Speed IV, which matters against opposing Lati Twins. Then again, it's also more useful against Forry and Ferro, so, tradeoffs I guess.

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 176 HP / 60 Atk / 252 SDef / 20 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Shadow Claw
- Rapid Spin
-----------
So right now, my plan against Lati Twins is to use Rock Arceus to force a CM War, but that's pretty risky, and pretty much leaves the game up to chance. So I was thinking of using Shadow Claw on this, and using Ice Fang on Hippo so it didn't open up a Rayquaza weakness.

I guess Jirachi is also usable here, and can pass Wish. But Excadrill gives my team some speed and offensive power, as well as spin support (Forry can't really spin because he can't get through the spinblockers). Also he isn't setup bait for stall teams.

Many stall teams suffer against stuff like Focus Blast Darkrai and Mewtwo, but Excadrill can deal with Darkai, and weaken Mewtwo to the point that residual damage will take him down. Finally, he also deals with CM Arceus and BU Dialga, by resisting their only attack and responding with SD-boosted Earthquakes.

Giratina @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spd
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Tail
--------
Didn't want to use this dude cause he's setup bait for a lot of Pokemon (everything from Forry to Darkrai), but I kinda need Leftovers on a Sand team, so that pretty much eliminated Giratina-O from contention. Also, Giratina checks gay Pokemon like Blaziken, and Will-O-Wisp helps wear down incoming Pokemon in conjunction with Sand.

Against stallish teams I try to spam Dragon Tail so Forry and Ferro can't get free setup opportunities. Otherwise, if Toxic Spikes aren't up I will usually throw around W-o-W to cripple incoming physical attackers and annoy special dudes. Thunder Wave is also viable to cripple speed reliant special attackers I guess, but nobody uses it haha.

Threat List:

...

mtr · Jul 9th, 2012, 11:09:55 PM

Anyone? I talked to Jibaku, and we don't think this team is really improvable, it's too weak to Latios, Darkrai, Mewtwo, etc. So I'll probably trash it and go back to using textbook Rain Stall. If you think it can be salvaged, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Huehuehue.

Poppy · Jul 10th, 2012, 6:01:55 AM

steel arceus > rock arceus

use an offensive spread on excadrill to check mewtwo

ssbbm · Jul 10th, 2012, 7:42:03 AM

right now, the main problem with your team is that it really doesn't have any strong moves off at the start: your pokemon are really bulky but they're easily set up on.

you could use an excadrill with an offensive spread like poppy suggested that looks like

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Shadow Claw
-Swords Dance

I don't see why you really run Hidden Power Ice on Forretress; I'd recommend giving it Rapid Spin over Hidden Power Ice (even if Forretress is a weaker spinner, it's not your team is *that* hazard weak tbh).

I'd keep Arceus-Rock though, because it pretty much helps with Darkrai / Mewtwo much more than Arceus-Steel would. Also, getting rid of Arceus Rock lets stuff like Reshiram and Ho-oh (to an extent) shit all over you.

Alternatively, you could run

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Iron Head
-Ice Punch
-U-turn
-Trick

over Excadrill, and then use Rapid Spin on Forretress. It checks Latios, Mewtwo, and Darkrai all pretty well, while also beating DD
Rayquaza.

Actually, now that I think about it, you could run a CB Scizor over Jirachi, but it's a shakier check to Latios than Jirachi is.

shrang · Jul 10th, 2012, 7:49:52 AM

Just saying, Shadow Claw is now completely pointless option on offensive Excadrill because it can now OHKO Giratina-O with +2 Iron Head instead.

Poppy · Jul 10th, 2012, 11:16:46 AM

steel arceus better checks surf / grass knot lati@s which are very problematic; a fast excadrill gives you an effective pseudo-scarfer

not much else to say

Jul 7th, 2012, 12:57:04 PM	#1
mtr Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,754	mtr's Ubers Sand Team A lot of the Sand Teams that have been posted recently are offensive ones, so I wanted to post a balanced or stallish team to give you guys something new to look at hehe. Also I wanted to get people's advice on specific movesets to make my team as good as possible. After 2 days of grinding this team is in the Ubers Top 25, but that doesn't mean anything because the ladder is shit as usual. I've seen more Rattatas than I've seen any Arceus that isn't Normal or Ghost. In the old version of this team I used to have Blissey rather than Excadrill, but I changed it out since Excadrill is better at checking Darkrai in Sand, and Blissey was kinda redundant with Rock Arceus+Latias. Right now, Latios and Mewtwo are the most pressing concerns, everything else can be dealt with to some extent. DDRay is also a slight issue, so I'm thinking of using Ice Fang on Hippo, and moving Toxic onto Forry to deal with all this stuff. Also to make this team better against stall I was thinking of making Giratina the Mono-CMer, and Rockceus a Perish Song/Support set with Fire Blast for Forry/Ferro. In this team, the first move listed is the move I currently use. The next one slashed in is what I'm considering. Pokemon changes are also cool, but I think the way to make this team the best it can be really involves just optimizing movesets. At a Glance: Fairly textbook bulky Sand team, but I use Excadrill instead of a Scarfer for a better matchup against rival stallish teams. Hippowdon @ Leftovers Trait: Sand Stream EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SDef Impish Nature - Stealth Rock - Slack Off - Earthquake - Roar / Ice Fang --------- You can't have a Sand Team without Sand. Tbh, I think it's a great weather conditions in Ubers, because not many things resist it. Sand means that enemy Leftovers are nullified, and enemies with Life Orb get shredded. Besides the Sand, I run Hippowdon as a Zekrom/Groudon/Rayquaza check, and my SR Setup. Roar is a better move overall, but Ice Fang has its uses against Rayquaza and Gliscor, who worry me a bit. I usually lead with Hippowdon to set up Sand, unless I predict a Forry lead, in which case I'll probably use Excadrill to spin everything away or get a free SD boost. Besides Sand, why run Hippowdon over Groudon? Because instant recovery is a pretty big deal on a team with no Wish user. And even otherwise: Slack Off is just really cool. Groudon is better on most teams because of better offensive/defensive stats, but Hippowdon is a Pokemon that is certainly viable in Ubers. Arceus @ Stone Plate Trait: Multitype EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 176 Spd Timid Nature - Calm Mind - Judgment - Refresh - Recover --------- Special Tank and Mono Attacker, this dude checks a litany of threats in Sand , which sends his SDef through the roof. And as a Mono Attacker, he becomes a powerful tool against rival stall teams relying on Blissey. Seriously, this dude's defense level can go over 9000. After a Calm Mind, this guy takes 19-22.5% in Sand from a +1 Latias Dragon Pulse, he's that tanky. In general, he's my main check to Kyurem-W, Reshiram, Thundurus, Ho-oh, Latias, Sub Darkrai, SD Rayquaza, etc. His Groudon-weakness doesn't rly matter because Hippowdon/Giratina deal with it. Also I was thinking of using a support set with Perish Song and Flamethrower over Calm Mind and Refresh, because Ferrothorn is kinda a nuisance for this team. However, it does have less of an offensive threat than this one, and gets derped by Toxic. Also, Psychic Arceus (I'm serious) is a viable choice over the Rock form for a stronger matchup against Mewtwo/Latias/Latios, but Sand hurts it rather than helping. Forretress @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 6 SAtk / 252 SDef Calm Nature - Spikes - Toxic Spikes - Pain Split - Hidden Power [Ice] / Toxic -------- Set up hazards, sponge Outrages. It's kinda cool that I get to use 2 moves rather than one because Excadrill is spinning. Hidden Power Ice is what I currently use, since it hits Rayquaza/Gliscor/Skymin. But I was thinking of Toxic to wear down spinblockers and cripple Lati Twins (or just dudes looking to set up). Pain Split is a strong move on Forry because in Ubers, everyone has crazy HP, so more often than not Forry becomes deceptively tanky. Especially with his good typing, so he can set up on a lot of dudes. I would like to use Pain Split in conjunction with Payback, but there isn't really much room for Payback, and it's sorta outclassed by Toxic as a way of dealing with Gira-O now, though it may be better vs. Mewtwo if anyone still used Taunt/CM. Latias @ Soul Dew Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 6 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Calm Mind - Dragon Pulse - Thunder - Recover -------- My main check to Kyogre, and a lot of the random Arceus forms that Rockceus can't handle. Also outspeeds Palkia, which is cool, though Palkia is less of an issue for this team because of Rockceus. I use the Calm Minder set so I don't lose games to Calm Mind wars (that Rockceus can't win). Thunder is the preferred move for coverage, and because HP Fire lowers your Speed IV, which matters against opposing Lati Twins. Then again, it's also more useful against Forry and Ferro, so, tradeoffs I guess. Excadrill @ Leftovers Trait: Sand Rush EVs: 176 HP / 60 Atk / 252 SDef / 20 Spd Adamant Nature - Swords Dance - Earthquake - Rock Slide / Shadow Claw - Rapid Spin ----------- So right now, my plan against Lati Twins is to use Rock Arceus to force a CM War, but that's pretty risky, and pretty much leaves the game up to chance. So I was thinking of using Shadow Claw on this, and using Ice Fang on Hippo so it didn't open up a Rayquaza weakness. I guess Jirachi is also usable here, and can pass Wish. But Excadrill gives my team some speed and offensive power, as well as spin support (Forry can't really spin because he can't get through the spinblockers). Also he isn't setup bait for stall teams. Many stall teams suffer against stuff like Focus Blast Darkrai and Mewtwo, but Excadrill can deal with Darkai, and weaken Mewtwo to the point that residual damage will take him down. Finally, he also deals with CM Arceus and BU Dialga, by resisting their only attack and responding with SD-boosted Earthquakes. Giratina @ Leftovers Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spd Impish Nature - Rest - Sleep Talk - Will-O-Wisp - Dragon Tail -------- Didn't want to use this dude cause he's setup bait for a lot of Pokemon (everything from Forry to Darkrai), but I kinda need Leftovers on a Sand team, so that pretty much eliminated Giratina-O from contention. Also, Giratina checks gay Pokemon like Blaziken, and Will-O-Wisp helps wear down incoming Pokemon in conjunction with Sand. Against stallish teams I try to spam Dragon Tail so Forry and Ferro can't get free setup opportunities. Otherwise, if Toxic Spikes aren't up I will usually throw around W-o-W to cripple incoming physical attackers and annoy special dudes. Thunder Wave is also viable to cripple speed reliant special attackers I guess, but nobody uses it haha. Threat List: ... Arceus: Giratina Arceus-Bug: Rockceus beats special sets, Giratina beats physical ones. Arceus-Dark: Rockceus and Excadrill beat mono attacker, support sets are Forry food unless they have a Fire move. Arceus-Dragon: I've seen Theorymon use this once, but he was the only dude that used it haha. Arceus-Electric: Excadrill outspeeds and OHKOes in Sand. Arceus-Fighting: Calm Minder loses to Latias, support set gets burned and walled by Giratina too. Arceus-Fire: Keep Sand up (easy since Hippo can switch into Groudon), also Rock Arceus. One of the worst forms IMO. Arceus-Flying: Underrated as a stallbreaker, but loses bad to Rockceus here. Arceus-Ghost: The Calm Minder with Focus Blast completely derps on this team, which is another reason to use Toxic on Forretress I guess. But if it comes in on a layer or two of Toxic Spikes, it's manageable. Arceus-Grass: Setup bait for Forretress. Arceus-Ground: Giratina deals with Swords Dancer, but Calm Minder is tricky :(. Need Toxic Spikes. Arceus-Ice: Rockceus Arceus-Poison: Excadrill, Hippo Arceus-Psychic: Well, it's tricky to get by, but the only reason to use this Arceus set is as countering utility, so it's not the biggest deal. Usually setup fodder for Forry. Arceus-Rock: Hippo, Excadrill. Arceus-Steel: Excadrill. Arceus-Water: Giratina deals with Swords Dancer, Latias with CMer. Blaziken: Giratina Darkrai: Rockceus beats Sub Darkai, Excadrill for revenging Focus Blasters. Deoxys: Derp. Deoxys-A: Nobody uses it. But remind me to up Excadrill's speed investment so it can outpace it in Sand. Deoxys-S: Forretress spins. Dialga: Most variants are setup food for Rockceus, but BUers lose to Excadrill. Excadrill: Hippowdon or Giratina I guess. Garchomp: Hippowdon or Forretress. Giratina: Setup food for Forry. Giratina-O: Can't really come in on Excadrill because of Shadow Claw. Also, non Earthquake variants lose to Rockceus. Groudon: Hippowdon walls it, not the other way around. Also Giratina. Ho-Oh: Rockceus, Giratina. Kyogre: Latias. Lugia: Setup food for Forry. Manaphy: Latias. Mewtwo: This one's tricky. Taunt/CM destroys this team (considering Payback on Forry), but is thankfully rare. CM/3 Atk gets beaten by a combination of Sand, Excadrill, and residual damage/LO recoil. Palkia: Rockceus, and Latias outspeeds it too. Rayquaza: Can't really setup on anybody here (well, Excadrill, but I can bluff Rock Slide). Considering Ice Fang on Hippo still though. SD and Mix Ray lose to Rockceus, the only real issue is DDRay. Reshiram: Rockceus, and Latias outspeeds. Shaymin-S: Excadrill outspeeds, though no Rock Slide hurts. Giratina can tank and phaze it out, while Forry can bait it with HP Ice. Also, Rockceus only takes around 46% from Seed Flare. Thundurus: Rockceus, Giratina. Zekrom: Non-Ubers Bisharp: Da fuk, uh, Hippowdon I guess. Blissey: Setup food for Forry. Chansey: Same as above. Deoxys-D: Setup for Forry and Rockceus. Agility/Taunt could be annoying, but walled by Excadrill and Forry. Dugtrio: Can't really do much, maybe a Scarf variant could kill Exca tho. Espeon: use Double Switching to get to Rockceus for a free setup. Whimsicott: huge douche, uh, Forretress: Gastrodon: Gengar: Nobody uses it. Haxorus: Nobody uses it. Heatran: Excadrill OHKOes Heracross: Giratina Jirachi: Hippo, Exca Kingdra: Sand and Giratina. Kyurem-W: Rockceus Kyurem-B: Revenged by Rockceus, bit hard to wall tho. Latias: Rockceus forces a CM war, variants without HP Fire lose to Excadrill. Latios: This one's a nuisance. Same as above tho. Lucario: Hippo, Giratina, Exca in Sand. Ludicolo: Derp, uh, Forry sets up on it. Mew: Giratina can phaze through Taunt. Metagross: Basically everybody but Latias/Rockceus. Ferrothorn: Gigantic nuisance for this team, but Forry can spin. Quagsire: Useless against non-Rain. Salamence: Nobody uses it, but between Hippo/Forry/Rockceus I beat it. Scizor: Forry, Hippo, Giratina. Chandelure: Can't use Shadow Tag yet cause unreleased. Shedinja: Lol. Skarmory: Forry can spin through Taunt, also Rockceus setup fodder. Tentacruel: Excadrill herps on it, but gotta watch out for Scald. Latias can also setup on it, as can Rockceus in Sand. Terrakion: Tornadus: Forry, Giratina. Tyranitar: Hippo, Excadrill, Forry against variants without Fire moves. Victini: Bad, useless mon. Rockceus I guess. Wobbuffet: Nobody uses it. Kinda annoying for stall teams, but he gets chunked by a lot of my dudes, and he wouldn't dare come in on Forretress. Against Wobb teams I try to spam phazing moves so he has nothing to Encore. Last edited by mtr; Jul 7th, 2012 at 5:19:59 PM.

Jul 10th, 2012, 6:01:55 AM	#3
Poppy SYMPTOMATIC OF A GREATER ILL Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,421 brisbane	steel arceus > rock arceus use an offensive spread on excadrill to check mewtwo __________________ erotically erudite

Jul 10th, 2012, 7:42:03 AM	#4
ssbbm Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,001 Where you can play Pokemon with Singing Narwhals and Dancing Clouds	right now, the main problem with your team is that it really doesn't have any strong moves off at the start: your pokemon are really bulky but they're easily set up on. you could use an excadrill with an offensive spread like poppy suggested that looks like Excadrill @ Life Orb Nature: Adamant EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe -Earthquake -Rock Slide -Shadow Claw -Swords Dance I don't see why you really run Hidden Power Ice on Forretress; I'd recommend giving it Rapid Spin over Hidden Power Ice (even if Forretress is a weaker spinner, it's not your team is that hazard weak tbh). I'd keep Arceus-Rock though, because it pretty much helps with Darkrai / Mewtwo much more than Arceus-Steel would. Also, getting rid of Arceus Rock lets stuff like Reshiram and Ho-oh (to an extent) shit all over you. Alternatively, you could run Jirachi @ Choice Scarf Nature: Jolly EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe -Iron Head -Ice Punch -U-turn -Trick over Excadrill, and then use Rapid Spin on Forretress. It checks Latios, Mewtwo, and Darkrai all pretty well, while also beating DD Rayquaza. Actually, now that I think about it, you could run a CB Scizor over Jirachi, but it's a shakier check to Latios than Jirachi is. Last edited by ssbbm; Jul 10th, 2012 at 12:04:52 PM.

Jul 10th, 2012, 11:16:46 AM	#6
Poppy SYMPTOMATIC OF A GREATER ILL Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,421 brisbane	steel arceus better checks surf / grass knot lati@s which are very problematic; a fast excadrill gives you an effective pseudo-scarfer not much else to say __________________ erotically erudite

Jul 9th, 2012, 11:09:55 PM	#2
mtr Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,754	Anyone? I talked to Jibaku, and we don't think this team is really improvable, it's too weak to Latios, Darkrai, Mewtwo, etc. So I'll probably trash it and go back to using textbook Rain Stall. If you think it can be salvaged, speak now or forever hold your peace. Huehuehue.