Snover and Hippopotas

***kokoloko**** · Jul 2nd, 2012, 1:33:15 PM

Nothing big or controversial this time.

I was looking through the tiering lists and noticed Snover is now classified as UU. This happened because a while back (like, before I was even involved), the UU Senate decided to ban Abomasnow and Snover on the UU ladder instead of Snow Warning. This was okay because, at the time, Soundproof wasn't released, so the result was the same and the ladder-implementation issues were mitigated. However, now that Soundproof is released, Antar and I decided to switch the ban to Snow Warning instead.

Snover's placement still strikes me as odd, however, because it was actually RU at the time of it's ban from UU.

So basically, the proposition is the following:

Seeing as how Snover is completely useless in UU and probably every tier below that too... could we just drop it to PU?

At the very least, let's let Snover drop down to RU (where it was banned from), so that it takes 3 months less for it to get down to PU/NU, where it could actually be somewhat useful.

In the end, this is more of a "lets make the tiers look nice" kind of thing, since it's unlikely it'll be used anywhere, so I don't see any negatives to this. So, under that premise, Hippopotas could be dropped down too, as no one is going to use it without Sand Stream.

***Antar**** · Jul 2nd, 2012, 1:48:10 PM

I'd argue this should be considered for Hippopotas as well.

Edit: Also, when I finally got the Drought check working on PO back in March, I removed Vulpix from the UU banlist. However, I never added it to any other banlists, so it fell straight to PU. This was an accident, but it appears not to have had any unfortunate consequences.

Bottom line: you can consider the case of Vulpix to be "precedent" here.

***Oglemi**** · Jul 2nd, 2012, 2:10:46 PM

I wouldn't have a problem with either. I highly doubt Scarf or Eviolite Snover will see any use without Snow Warning, and the only real reason to use Eviolite Hippopotas was for Sand Stream. Dropping them into RU first is a good idea too for the "just in case" factor.

***kokoloko**** · Jul 2nd, 2012, 2:24:19 PM

Yeah, I meant to include Hippopotas in this too. I'll add it to the OP now.

***Zebraiken**** · Jul 2nd, 2012, 4:17:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat kokoloko

Snover's placement still strikes me as odd, however, because it was actually RU at the time of it's ban from UU.

So basically, the proposition is the following:

Seeing as how Snover is completely useless in UU and probably every tier below that too... could we just drop it to PU?

At the very least, let's let Snover drop down to RU (where it was banned from), so that it takes 3 months less for it to get down to PU/NU, where it could actually be somewhat useful.

I'm fairly sure Snover was actually NU at the time since I remember playing obnoxious hail spam teams back then, like this one (although I don't exactly remember if NU was considered an official tier pre-January). I don't think any harm would be done in dropping them all the way to NU/PU since they'll have very little impact on any of the tiers in general.

jrrrrrrr · Jul 3rd, 2012, 7:16:54 PM

They should be in the NFE tier, which as far as I know defaults to PU until you're used enough to be promoted, like Metang/Munchlax/Ferroseed/Roselia etc. I think a complete reset would be the most fair option for these two mons.

***Antar**** · Jul 3rd, 2012, 7:41:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat jrrrrrrr

They should be in the NFE tier, which as far as I know defaults to PU until you're used enough to be promoted, like Metang/Munchlax/Ferroseed/Roselia etc. I think a complete reset would be the most fair option for these two mons.

NFE is not a tier. Chansey is NFE but is UU. Muchlax is NFE but is RU.

It's one of my biggest pet peeves that we list pokemon as "NFE" on the site as if it's an actual tier.

Although I can understand a bit why we do it, as *I* did it in my own tier list (the idea was to filter out pokes like Bulbasaur, but really, I think it did more harm than good, since there's real gems on that list, like Zweilous and Duosion).

***kokoloko**** · Jul 3rd, 2012, 10:05:35 PM

Can we make a decision on this before the 8th so we know which tier to write their analyses for over at C&C?

(We re-open reservations and stuff on the 8th)

***Oglemi**** · Jul 3rd, 2012, 11:47:29 PM

Even if they're dropped into NU they won't get an analysis unless they're actually good enough to warrant one (as is what's happening to Metang in RU).

So that doesn't matter really.

I can agree with just throwing them into NU. I don't see them even mattering.

***Great Sage***** · Jul 9th, 2012, 7:23:44 PM

They should be assigned to LC, like Bulbasaur, Charmander, and other first-stage Pokemon that are not good enough to reach NU.

***Oglemi**** · Jul 10th, 2012, 1:19:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Great Sage

They should be assigned to LC, like Bulbasaur, Charmander, and other first-stage Pokemon that are not good enough to reach NU.

I have done this for the Dex.

Antar if you could put Hippopotas and Snover into NU or w/e that'd be good.

***Antar**** · Jul 10th, 2012, 7:56:39 AM

It's done on PO, and I've made a pull request for PS.

Jul 2nd, 2012, 1:33:15 PM	#1
*kokoloko winter is coming Super Moderator** Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,315	Snover and Hippopotas Nothing big or controversial this time. I was looking through the tiering lists and noticed Snover is now classified as UU. This happened because a while back (like, before I was even involved), the UU Senate decided to ban Abomasnow and Snover on the UU ladder instead of Snow Warning. This was okay because, at the time, Soundproof wasn't released, so the result was the same and the ladder-implementation issues were mitigated. However, now that Soundproof is released, Antar and I decided to switch the ban to Snow Warning instead. Snover's placement still strikes me as odd, however, because it was actually RU at the time of it's ban from UU. So basically, the proposition is the following: Seeing as how Snover is completely useless in UU and probably every tier below that too... could we just drop it to PU? At the very least, let's let Snover drop down to RU (where it was banned from), so that it takes 3 months less for it to get down to PU/NU, where it could actually be somewhat useful. In the end, this is more of a "lets make the tiers look nice" kind of thing, since it's unlikely it'll be used anywhere, so I don't see any negatives to this. So, under that premise, Hippopotas could be dropped down too, as no one is going to use it without Sand Stream. __________________ Last edited by kokoloko; Jul 2nd, 2012 at 2:25:35 PM.

Jul 2nd, 2012, 1:48:10 PM	#2
*Antar Super Moderator** Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,048 DC Metro Area	I'd argue this should be considered for Hippopotas as well. Edit: Also, when I finally got the Drought check working on PO back in March, I removed Vulpix from the UU banlist. However, I never added it to any other banlists, so it fell straight to PU. This was an accident, but it appears not to have had any unfortunate consequences. Bottom line: you can consider the case of Vulpix to be "precedent" here. __________________ Codes and Hacks I Use PBR FC: 4898-8739-8815 (See here) Black FC: 4040 5386 0128 / White 2 FC: 4771 3664 7215 My Narrated PBR & Gen V Battles My Trade Thread Convert any sim team to pkms Pokemetrics: A Blog Last edited by Antar; Jul 2nd, 2012 at 2:09:52 PM.

Jul 2nd, 2012, 2:10:46 PM	#3
*Oglemi I crashed my car into the bridge, I don't care Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,523 ~(^.^)~	I wouldn't have a problem with either. I highly doubt Scarf or Eviolite Snover will see any use without Snow Warning, and the only real reason to use Eviolite Hippopotas was for Sand Stream. Dropping them into RU first is a good idea too for the "just in case" factor. __________________ <shade> what an intense scrotum

Jul 2nd, 2012, 2:24:19 PM	#4
*kokoloko winter is coming Super Moderator** Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,315	Yeah, I meant to include Hippopotas in this too. I'll add it to the OP now. __________________

Jul 3rd, 2012, 7:16:54 PM	#6
jrrrrrrr wubwubwub Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,118 wubwubwub	They should be in the NFE tier, which as far as I know defaults to PU until you're used enough to be promoted, like Metang/Munchlax/Ferroseed/Roselia etc. I think a complete reset would be the most fair option for these two mons. __________________ NIGMAN: JRRRR IS A SHIT NIGMAN: HO ESLE THINK IT??

Jul 3rd, 2012, 10:05:35 PM	#8
*kokoloko winter is coming Super Moderator** Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,315	Can we make a decision on this before the 8th so we know which tier to write their analyses for over at C&C? (We re-open reservations and stuff on the 8th) __________________

Jul 3rd, 2012, 11:47:29 PM	#9
*Oglemi I crashed my car into the bridge, I don't care Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,523 ~(^.^)~	Even if they're dropped into NU they won't get an analysis unless they're actually good enough to warrant one (as is what's happening to Metang in RU). So that doesn't matter really. I can agree with just throwing them into NU. I don't see them even mattering. __________________ <shade> what an intense scrotum

Jul 9th, 2012, 7:23:44 PM	#10
*Great Sage* Administrator** Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,872 Boston, MA Mentor	They should be assigned to LC, like Bulbasaur, Charmander, and other first-stage Pokemon that are not good enough to reach NU.

Jul 10th, 2012, 7:56:39 AM	#12
*Antar Super Moderator** Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,048 DC Metro Area	It's done on PO, and I've made a pull request for PS. __________________ Codes and Hacks I Use PBR FC: 4898-8739-8815 (See here) Black FC: 4040 5386 0128 / White 2 FC: 4771 3664 7215 My Narrated PBR & Gen V Battles My Trade Thread Convert any sim team to pkms Pokemetrics: A Blog