np: UU Stage 7 - Brand New Day - Page 3

jamashawalker · Jul 6th, 2012, 2:05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Forsety

Cincinno- Skill Link CBCinno is destructive, if your wall isn't in perfect condition it'll get trampled over. Also King's Rock Skill Link Cincinno is very haxy but completely trollworthy,ful.

Whats the technology behind that? Im curious now that u said that
Does it mean u have a 50% chance to flinch the opponent?

Machi · Jul 6th, 2012, 3:41:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat jamashawalker

Whats the technology behind that? Im curious now that u said that
Does it mean u have a 50% chance to flinch the opponent?

Around 41%
http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/kings_rock

~~superbadd~~ · Jul 9th, 2012, 2:20:47 PM

Is uu gonna retest anything like ou will soon? I think once ou does drop downs there will be loads of new pokes coming into uu.
You guys know in dw reni has below ou usage?
Seeing sun, hail, sand, and staraptor could be interesting.
The baby weather setters will be so cute. <3 Snover, Vulpix, Hippopotas.

/B/utterfree · Jul 9th, 2012, 2:28:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

Is uu gonna retest anything like ou will soon? Seeing sun, hail, sand, and staraptor could be interesting.
The baby weather setters will be so cute. <3 Snover, Vulpix, Hippopotas.

1. Why would UU retest anything? It recently banned Sand Stream, so there's almost no way they're going to retest that unless they retest other weathers alongside.

2. Snover and Hippopotas are being discussed at the current moment, and they're likely to be transferred to PU; no one is going to use two mediocre NFEs without their respective weather-setting abilities.

3. I didn't think OU was retesting anything either. Unless I've been missing out on stuff over at PO from having transferred myself to PokemonShowdown!, I'm certain there isn't anything being retested.

~~superbadd~~ · Jul 9th, 2012, 2:30:35 PM

Ou is bound to do a retest in the next few months, the metagame is starting to settle down after all. Once that happens uu will be effected greatly by future drop downs.

/B/utterfree · Jul 9th, 2012, 2:43:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

Ou is bound to do a retest in the next few months, the metagame is starting to settle down after all. Once that happens uu will be effected greatly by future drop downs.

So this is just an assumption, right?

I don't remember anything being retested after it was banned. Once it was banned, it stayed banned until the next Generation games were made.

UU being affected greatly by drop downs is currently occuring. UU's metagame is less balanced than it would have been if nothing dropped to the tier from OU.

And your choices for retesting aren't exactly viable. Again, Sand Stream was recently banned, and Snover and Hippotas are being discussed in the Policy Review forum currently. Baby weather setters aren't happening for a while in UU.

Furthermore, suggesting Staraptor to be unbanned from UU is like suggesting rocket launchers in a game filled with pistols. No. It's entirely horrid an idea; Staraptor was legitimately broken.

Machi · Jul 9th, 2012, 2:54:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

Ou is bound to do a retest in the next few months, the metagame is starting to settle down after all. Once that happens uu will be effected greatly by future drop downs.

We're not sure what will drop down so why speculate on what should be retested on UU when we have no idea precisely what will be shaking up the metagame.

Moreover, as /B/utterfree has said the sand stream ban is relatively recent so its unlikely that will be tested any time soon - moreover its not as if the recent drop downs of Scrafty and Meinshao have necessarily proven to be that much of a sufficient change to the metagame that warrants a retest of conditions. Neither of which BTW make Staraptor or Kyurem any less broken as a sweeper - nor do either of these affect Deoxys-D's capabilities to set hazards etc. We do have move tutors though to consider but really I think its far too early really to consider any possible retest.

~~superbadd~~ · Jul 9th, 2012, 3:05:50 PM

Well, yeah they're just assumptions. I understand sand stream being too soon. But maybe when/if ou does drop downs, in another few months after that, it wouldn't be a bad idea for uu to do the same.

**PK Gaming** · Jul 10th, 2012, 10:08:56 AM

It's true what they say, 7 really is a lucky number ♪.

I don't know about everyone else, but i'm absolutely loving this current metagame. Really, the council did us a huge favour by banning Sand as a whole, since team building is less restrictive now (and by extension, easier too). The new drop downs are fine; They're extremely strong Pokemon in their own right, but definitely counterable. Ditto's a good Pokemon as well, and if you want a pocket check to every single sweeper in the tier(DD Kingdra), then I can think of no other Pokemon better suited to job. Last Pokemon i'd like to talk about is Cofagrigus, who's Trick Room set dominates HO / Balance teams (lategame) when it sets up. It's a mean counter to Mienshao & Heracross too, so don't sleep on this Pokemon. Most of the teams i've seen are varied. There's still the stock spike abuser / flygon / electric team, but I feel that the amount of those teams have gone down in popularity. Yeah, for me right now BW UU is definitely at its peak... and dare I say it, it's pretty close to DPP UU right now (the holy tier). We even have our "Venusaur" in Raikou.

Anyone else depressed that this momentary peace will eventually end? Even if you ignore the potential drop downs in 3 months, the fact that Chansey will be UU soon terrifies me. I'm going to savour this round.

Silvershadow234 · Jul 10th, 2012, 2:18:29 PM

Really sorry Kokoloko, but my Showdown is really, really lagging-so much that it is actually painful. I'm going to try laddering on PO instead.

I have now realised the true monster potential for Ditto. I do hope this thing stays UU-the sheer amount of things this thing deals with is unreal. Obviously, the best check to DD Kingdra-and think about what it will do to Baton Pass teams. Any BP team is going to be counter-swept by Ditto. Scrafty is also easily checked. Easily the most dangerous of the new threats in my opinion-and by far the best stat-up revenger in the game. Mienshao is pretty goos as a scout sure, and Scrafty can wreck teams, but Ditto is in another league...

We'll just have to hope that the OU players can realise that Chansey is a fantastic counter to the new genies. However, with Keldeo around...well, I suppose it's a good thing that I run Sub Nasty Plot Mismagius and Banded Heracross huh.

Edit: Just checked and Chansey isn't even 2HKO'd from a +6 HP Fighting from Mismagius. Oh dear...may have to run Taunt instead if she drops down to stop her from healing, so she can be destroyed. Or run LO over Leftovers.

Closetalker · Jul 10th, 2012, 4:39:29 PM

At +6 HP Fighting should be a fairly solid 2hko against 252/0 Bold Chansey, which is Chansey's standard spread.

Iridium · Jul 10th, 2012, 7:01:24 PM

Indeed it is, since chansey doesn't have leftovers.

Even if it's running 0/252 bold, can chansey even DO anything to mismagius? assuming missy has sub. Hidden power has more pp than either wish or softboiled, so you should be fine even if you never land a crit.

Pokemazter · Jul 10th, 2012, 7:28:19 PM

It gets Thunder Wave, which leaves room for one of it's teammates to drop Mismagius.

That's what Chansey does, it's a support Pokemon. It's not supposed to have any offenive presence, and it doesn't. I still think the addition of Mienshao and Scrafty will be enough to keep Chansey at bay. They both have their ways around status, whether it be Substitute, Lum Berry, or Shed Skin in Scrafty's case. I believe the fear around it is simply what it did last time it was in UU, however, the metagame has changed, and it should not be as much of a threat. If it is, then I'm wrong, and shall eat humble pie. I just don't see it being such a problem as it was. It'll end up Borderline anyways, where it belongs. Too good for UU, despite what's new down here, and just not good enough for OU.

With Golurk now having Stealth Rock and No-Guard, do you suppose it'll come back up to UU?

Bad Ass · Jul 10th, 2012, 7:30:24 PM

when pokemon showdown plays nice with my connection, i use a crustle + voltturn team. it's very fun because i hardly ever actually use the volt/turn -- it's mostly a bunch of balls strong attackers that can u turn if i so desire! CB Flygon / mienshao / specs rotom are my main attackers with a CM LO clefable for bulky water smashing and then a crobat for glue. it's been great. specs rotom is incredibly underrated

Espo · Jul 10th, 2012, 7:46:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Pokemazter

It gets Thunder Wave, which leaves room for one of it's teammates to drop Mismagius.

That's what Chansey does, it's a support Pokemon. It's not supposed to have any offenive presence, and it doesn't. I still think the addition of Mienshao and Scrafty will be enough to keep Chansey at bay. They both have their ways around status, whether it be Substitute, Lum Berry, or Shed Skin in Scrafty's case. I believe the fear around it is simply what it did last time it was in UU, however, the metagame has changed, and it should not be as much of a threat. If it is, then I'm wrong, and shall eat humble pie. I just don't see it being such a problem as it was. It'll end up Borderline anyways, where it belongs. Too good for UU, despite what's new down here, and just not good enough for OU.

With Golurk now having Stealth Rock and No-Guard, do you suppose it'll come back up to UU?

I Don't know about Gorlurk. I tried No-Guard but iron fist is generally better. You just need to find a spot for Stealth Rock if you need it.

Ginku · Jul 10th, 2012, 9:15:44 PM

Golurk probably isn't coming up 2 tiers just because of elemtnal punches and SR. I can see it moving up to RU, but in UU there are better alternatives for basically all it does

I also don't think there's a lot of merit in discussing chansey now, considering that the earliest it will drop down is in 3 months, along with all the other tier changes that bw2 will inevitably bring. It's just too hard to predict what the meta will be to have a good basis for a discussion.

Anyway, I'm agreeing with PKG in that the metagame is really fun right now, a lot of different teams are around and nothing really sticks out as broken to me. Out of interest, what's the general opinion on moxie heracross? It's been really good in general, but sometimes I kind of wish I had guts instead, since when you're in a position where you can sweep with moxie it usually isn't much harder to get an "unboosted" sweep off. Thoughts on this?

Silvershadow234 · Jul 11th, 2012, 2:33:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Ginku

Golurk probably isn't coming up 2 tiers just because of elemtnal punches and SR. I can see it moving up to RU, but in UU there are better alternatives for basically all it does

I also don't think there's a lot of merit in discussing chansey now, considering that the earliest it will drop down is in 3 months, along with all the other tier changes that bw2 will inevitably bring. It's just too hard to predict what the meta will be to have a good basis for a discussion.

Anyway, I'm agreeing with PKG in that the metagame is really fun right now, a lot of different teams are around and nothing really sticks out as broken to me. Out of interest, what's the general opinion on moxie heracross? It's been really good in general, but sometimes I kind of wish I had guts instead, since when you're in a position where you can sweep with moxie it usually isn't much harder to get an "unboosted" sweep off. Thoughts on this?

I generally always use Hera with Guts-since then he makes a great status absorber. All the people try to burn you-just to be met with a Choice Scarf Heracross with the power of a banded Heracross. They are both great abilities though-I suppose Moxie would be better if you had Substitute or Lum Berry, but the ability to switch into Sableye and laugh at him is pretty useful.

**PK Gaming** · Jul 11th, 2012, 8:32:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Ginku

Anyway, I'm agreeing with PKG in that the metagame is really fun right now, a lot of different teams are around and nothing really sticks out as broken to me. Out of interest, what's the general opinion on moxie heracross? It's been really good in general, but sometimes I kind of wish I had guts instead, since when you're in a position where you can sweep with moxie it usually isn't much harder to get an "unboosted" sweep off. Thoughts on this?

In certain situations i'm inclined to agree, especially since guts Hera is consistently powerful, and a handy tool against stall teams that run toxic spikes since you pretty much have that power boost for the rest of the match. (an example of when this is useful is when the opponent has a slightly weakened Gligar. Guts boosted CC does 19.8% - 23.4% to Gligar. It doesn't seem like much, but when you add in SR, lack of leftovers and residual damage it can make the difference in a match.). Guts makes for a pretty fantastic status absorber too... you can turn Sableyes into liabilities for your opponent and if you know your opponent has Toxic on their wall or w/e, you can switch Heracross in with style.

However, Moxie Heracross is pretty damn amazing against bulky offense/offense teams; teams that don't even have dedicated Heracross counters, and rely on checking Heracross by tanking one of its STAB moves and killing it. In cases like that, Heracross just cuts through teams like a hot knife on butter, similar to moxie mence in OU. It also puts your opponent in a tough position if they're forced to sac a Pokemon (which could mean the difference in the match.) It's been my trump card for most my matches, and arguably the best lategame sweeper in the entire UU tier.

I pretty much exclusively use Moxie on my Heracross' now.

...

Forsety · Jul 11th, 2012, 2:02:05 PM

I think the only real negative about this round is Showdown is a horrible downgrade/substitute from PO and Smogon doesn't support PO2.

Quote:

With Golurk now having Stealth Rock and No-Guard, do you suppose it'll come back up to UU?

No Guard Golurk is just hands down inferior to Iron Fist. He has none of the versatility or power and is just asking to get wiped out. Machamp is arguably the better user of No Guard and even he is slipping into mediocrity this round.

Iron Fist Golurk is just damn powerful when it can even straight up 2HKO the likes of Slowbro and has the versatility of boosted elemental punches to go with his powerful STAB's and recovery now in Drain Punch to compliment his bulk.

Quote:

Golurk probably isn't coming up 2 tiers just because of elemtnal punches and SR. I can see it moving up to RU, but in UU there are better alternatives for basically all it does

And sadly yes I'd agree that Moxiecross right now has a complete monopoly on the role of a wallbreaker/physical powerhouse. There simply isn't anything else to offer that combination level of versatility + power + speed.

Few other things I'd like to get out is Ditto is seriously cheesy, I think there is too much play down on Ditto's abilities because it is still a really cheesy way to steal a undeserved win.

The Sand ban has nothing but a complete positive effect on the viability of some mons now they no longer have to fear having zero chance of revenging Stoutland. Bulky Arcanine is a valid choice along with many others now they aren't having their Leftovers/Synthesis/Morning Sun recovery gimped. This makes things like Victini, Chandelure, Darmanitarn far easier to check who I honestly feel were disturbingly free to do as they like.

Cofagrigus is possibly one of the most dangerous boost sweepers in the current UU right now with his Trick Room set even though everyone predicted his usage to be more defensive and I think he is set to become a new staple of the metagame. This is incredibly curious considering he could already do this pre-BW2, so this might have something to do with Mienshao actually.

Xatu I also believe is set to become a even more important staple of UU, I've already seen his usage rising significantly due to the stupidly sore lack of versatile Rapid Spinners and non-fragile and fast Taunt users. It also helps he is not very vulnerable to Pursuitrap's being mainly defensive support.

Crobat is as earlier predicted one of the most important anti-meta mons right now easily countering multiple threats in his presence alone.

SJCrew · Jul 12th, 2012, 6:57:57 AM

A lot of people underestimating Golurk's changes in here. Not surprising; he's always ranged from mediocre to bad. His brief stint in UU where he did all of nothing was a testament to that.

But! One thing I believe we're forgetting is that he is a solid Heracross counter. Heracross' stock as a scarfer just rose tremendously with Moxie and when over 50% of Heracross are guaranteed to be locked into something, you can bet it's not Night Slash. That, along with Ice Punch and No Guard, is enough to make him both annoying and somewhat useful in UU. Gligar can't just wall him for free anymore. Spinblocking his own hazards gives your average Hitmontop/Blastoise user so much hell. Blastoise coming in to Scald doesn't mean shit because you're just going to force him out with Roserade the next turn anyway. Xatu switching in is just cute. Click Shadow Punch, then Stealth Rock again.

EDIT: Oh, did anyone mention coverage issues with DynamicPunch? It's pretty redundant alongside Earthquake, and on a 3-attacks set, you're going to have to get rid of something good to use it. I'm thinking of running EQ/Ice Punch/DP, foregoing Shadow Punch since IMO it is a weak and not very useful move, even with Iron Fist and STAB. Golurk's targets for Ghost STAB are usually faster than him and can kill him pretty easily, so there's not much you can do with it. I think its best utility is hitting Slowbro for some actual damage, in which case I'd seriously consider CB for a sure 2HKO.

TPO3 · Jul 13th, 2012, 3:21:09 PM

My main issue with Golurk is that while it seems good on paper because it can do so much, it's outclassed in nearly every aspect. If you want a Stealth Rocker that checks or counters Heracross, Gligar has more defense and can just Roost off the damage. Nidoqueen also resists both STAB attacks as well as stone edge, can set up Stealth Rock, and can fire off Sheer Force boosted Fire Blast. If you want a No Guard set that abuses Dynamicpunch and Ice Punch, Machamp will do this better due to getting STAB on Dpunch, while having higher Attack and more bulk. Despite the fact that you would never see them, Heracross and Machamp could both arguably run a better SubPunch set due to getting STAB and having Guts. These two would accomplish more than Iron Fist could ever hope to.

Also, every pokemon has its checks, sure. But it seems to me like Golurk's checks and counters would be much more common than Machamp, Heracross, or Gligar's would be. Golurk would be threatened by Roserade, Swampert, Shaymin, Kingdra, Krookodile, Azumarill, Mismagius, and Sharpedo on the offesnive end, as well as Suicune, Milotic, Slowbro, and Dusclops on the defensive end. I don't have a problem with the number of counters Golurk has, but I do have a problem with the fact that each of these pokemon are so commonly seen in UU play. Machamp, Heracross, and even arguably Gligar have a much shorter list of counters, and most of them are less common than the ones listed that counter Golurk.

EDIT: wow, I go through all this and don't even mention Rhyperior. Rhyperior also posesses EdgeQuake as well as Ice Punch, can set up Stealth Rock, and has an awesome ability in Solid Rock. Rhyperior can tank physical hits like a boss and set up Stealth Rock whenever, and can even take physical super-effective attacks like Waterfall even better than Golurk could thanks to Solid Rock.

Silvershadow234 · Jul 13th, 2012, 3:35:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat TPO3

My main issue with Golurk is that while it seems good on paper because it can do so much, it's outclassed in nearly every aspect. If you want a Stealth Rocker that checks or counters Heracross, Gligar has more defense and can just Roost off the damage. Nidoqueen also resists both STAB attacks as well as stone edge, can set up Stealth Rock, and can fire off Sheer Force boosted Fire Blast. If you want a No Guard set that abuses Dynamicpunch and Ice Punch, Machamp will do this better due to getting STAB on Dpunch, while having higher Attack and more bulk. Despite the fact that you would never see them, Heracross and Machamp could both arguably run a better SubPunch set due to getting STAB and having Guts. These two would accomplish more than Iron Fist could ever hope to.

Also, every pokemon has its checks, sure. But it seems to me like Golurk's checks and counters would be much more common than Machamp, Heracross, or Gligar's would be. Golurk would be threatened by Roserade, Swampert, Shaymin, Kingdra, Krookodile, Azumarill, Mismagius, and Sharpedo on the offesnive end, as well as Suicune, Milotic, Slowbro, and Dusclops on the defensive end. I don't have a problem with the number of counters Golurk has, but I do have a problem with the fact that each of these pokemon are so commonly seen in UU play. Machamp, Heracross, and even arguably Gligar have a much shorter list of counters, and most of them are less common than the ones listed that counter Golurk.

But Golurk can pose somewhat of a threat with Shadow Punch, Earthquake and Drain Punch with an Iron Fist boost, set-up SR and spinblock. Gligar is much less offensively threataning, while Heracross doesn't have SR. Granted, if you wanted a physical attacker that can destroy stuff go with Heracross and Machamp is better as a No Guard abuser due to STAB Dynamic Punch. Golurk is kind of a jack of all trades-but doesn't do either that well-but has his perks over others, and his own little niche.

Stormsire · Jul 15th, 2012, 5:20:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Silvershadow234

But Golurk can pose somewhat of a threat with Shadow Punch, Earthquake and Drain Punch with an Iron Fist boost, set-up SR and spinblock. Gligar is much less offensively threataning, while Heracross doesn't have SR. Granted, if you wanted a physical attacker that can destroy stuff go with Heracross and Machamp is better as a No Guard abuser due to STAB Dynamic Punch. Golurk is kind of a jack of all trades-but doesn't do either that well-but has his perks over others, and his own little niche.

I'm going to have to agree with this. I've been running Golurk in a few of my teams as a physical tank, and he does his job respectably, whilst also being a spinblocker and SR user. Indeed, he doesn't take hits or recover reliably like Gligar can, he doesn't hit quite as hard as Rhyperior or Machamp, nor is he as good a spinblocker as Cofagrigus, but no other mon can do all three to the degree with Golurk can.

On a more defensively orientated team, I can see him playing the role of a tank, with solid damage output and coverage, whilst also blocking Rapid Spin. On a more offensive team, he just lays down rocks, punches some guys and checks a few threats which could otherwise bend teams over (Scarf Flygon comes to mind).

DetroitLolcat · Jul 15th, 2012, 12:34:00 PM

Golurk is definitely a better Pokemon than it used to be, but it's still not UU worthy. It's painfully slow, vulnerable to Spikes, and, worst of all, weak to Water and Grass. It does very little that Rhyperior can't do besides spinblock, but it lacks the recovery to block Rapid Spin for a prolonged period of time. It's a worse Rhyperior that might block Spin once or twice. Not to mention it loses to the Spinners (assuming Hitmontop has Toxic).

Stormsire · Jul 15th, 2012, 1:14:04 PM

I'm not claiming him to be superior to Rhyperior in every way, or even superior in general. I merely wanted to say that Golurk is now completely viable, and can find himself a place on teams. The comparisons to Rhyperior are apt, insofar as Rhyperior can do everything, except spinblock, better than Golurk, which is generally true. However, in my experience, Golurk has pulled his weight admirably. The ability to block your own hazards without switching is extremely useful, coupled with the fact he still hits hard enough the opponent needs to be careful of him, and not merely use him as setup fodder. He admirably checks several otherwise dangerous threats such as Heracross, Mienshao and Flygon. Many opponents simply don't know what they're doing against a Golurk, and coupled with the right teammates (Snorlax and Roserade come to mind), Golurk can simply put games away.

Is that enough to make him UU? I don't know, probably not. I do know, however, that his role on a team is something that no other pokemon can fill, and that has to count for something.

Jul 10th, 2012, 10:08:56 AM	#59
PK Gaming Moderator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,562 Sumuru city	It's true what they say, 7 really is a lucky number ♪. I don't know about everyone else, but i'm absolutely loving this current metagame. Really, the council did us a huge favour by banning Sand as a whole, since team building is less restrictive now (and by extension, easier too). The new drop downs are fine; They're extremely strong Pokemon in their own right, but definitely counterable. Ditto's a good Pokemon as well, and if you want a pocket check to every single sweeper in the tier(DD Kingdra), then I can think of no other Pokemon better suited to job. Last Pokemon i'd like to talk about is Cofagrigus, who's Trick Room set dominates HO / Balance teams (lategame) when it sets up. It's a mean counter to Mienshao & Heracross too, so don't sleep on this Pokemon. Most of the teams i've seen are varied. There's still the stock spike abuser / flygon / electric team, but I feel that the amount of those teams have gone down in popularity. Yeah, for me right now BW UU is definitely at its peak... and dare I say it, it's pretty close to DPP UU right now (the holy tier). We even have our "Venusaur" in Raikou. Anyone else depressed that this momentary peace will eventually end? Even if you ignore the potential drop downs in 3 months, the fact that Chansey will be UU soon terrifies me. I'm going to savour this round. __________________

Jul 10th, 2012, 7:30:24 PM	#64
Bad Ass serious as a heart attack!!!!!!!!!!!!! Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,920	when pokemon showdown plays nice with my connection, i use a crustle + voltturn team. it's very fun because i hardly ever actually use the volt/turn -- it's mostly a bunch of balls strong attackers that can u turn if i so desire! CB Flygon / mienshao / specs rotom are my main attackers with a CM LO clefable for bulky water smashing and then a crobat for glue. it's been great. specs rotom is incredibly underrated __________________ check out my youtube channel! i put up lots of good narrated matches between battlers you actually care about! tournament matches, finals, and any battle i deem entertaining. saddened by the lack of warstories on smogon? enjoy quality narration from a cute southern belle? spend your friday nights analyzing pokemon matches? then my youtube channel might just be for you...

Jul 12th, 2012, 6:57:57 AM	#70
SJCrew Believer, going on a journey... Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,802	A lot of people underestimating Golurk's changes in here. Not surprising; he's always ranged from mediocre to bad. His brief stint in UU where he did all of nothing was a testament to that. But! One thing I believe we're forgetting is that he is a solid Heracross counter. Heracross' stock as a scarfer just rose tremendously with Moxie and when over 50% of Heracross are guaranteed to be locked into something, you can bet it's not Night Slash. That, along with Ice Punch and No Guard, is enough to make him both annoying and somewhat useful in UU. Gligar can't just wall him for free anymore. Spinblocking his own hazards gives your average Hitmontop/Blastoise user so much hell. Blastoise coming in to Scald doesn't mean shit because you're just going to force him out with Roserade the next turn anyway. Xatu switching in is just cute. Click Shadow Punch, then Stealth Rock again. EDIT: Oh, did anyone mention coverage issues with DynamicPunch? It's pretty redundant alongside Earthquake, and on a 3-attacks set, you're going to have to get rid of something good to use it. I'm thinking of running EQ/Ice Punch/DP, foregoing Shadow Punch since IMO it is a weak and not very useful move, even with Iron Fist and STAB. Golurk's targets for Ghost STAB are usually faster than him and can kill him pretty easily, so there's not much you can do with it. I think its best utility is hitting Slowbro for some actual damage, in which case I'd seriously consider CB for a sure 2HKO. __________________ (02:53:55) +shrang: sleep is epic (16:14) .No Scrafty in UU.: CBtar? (16:14) .No Scrafty in UU.: that sounds like a not bad set (16:04:25) +Steamroll: nobody likes me @Relados: snowflakes has no sense of humor Last edited by SJCrew; Jul 13th, 2012 at 12:16:13 AM.

Jul 13th, 2012, 3:21:09 PM	#71
TPO3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 255 the Frozen Tundra.	My main issue with Golurk is that while it seems good on paper because it can do so much, it's outclassed in nearly every aspect. If you want a Stealth Rocker that checks or counters Heracross, Gligar has more defense and can just Roost off the damage. Nidoqueen also resists both STAB attacks as well as stone edge, can set up Stealth Rock, and can fire off Sheer Force boosted Fire Blast. If you want a No Guard set that abuses Dynamicpunch and Ice Punch, Machamp will do this better due to getting STAB on Dpunch, while having higher Attack and more bulk. Despite the fact that you would never see them, Heracross and Machamp could both arguably run a better SubPunch set due to getting STAB and having Guts. These two would accomplish more than Iron Fist could ever hope to. Also, every pokemon has its checks, sure. But it seems to me like Golurk's checks and counters would be much more common than Machamp, Heracross, or Gligar's would be. Golurk would be threatened by Roserade, Swampert, Shaymin, Kingdra, Krookodile, Azumarill, Mismagius, and Sharpedo on the offesnive end, as well as Suicune, Milotic, Slowbro, and Dusclops on the defensive end. I don't have a problem with the number of counters Golurk has, but I do have a problem with the fact that each of these pokemon are so commonly seen in UU play. Machamp, Heracross, and even arguably Gligar have a much shorter list of counters, and most of them are less common than the ones listed that counter Golurk. EDIT: wow, I go through all this and don't even mention Rhyperior. Rhyperior also posesses EdgeQuake as well as Ice Punch, can set up Stealth Rock, and has an awesome ability in Solid Rock. Rhyperior can tank physical hits like a boss and set up Stealth Rock whenever, and can even take physical super-effective attacks like Waterfall even better than Golurk could thanks to Solid Rock. __________________ [18:01:20] <NDEBeach> i remember [18:01:27] <NDEBeach> redshark used to be the good device [18:01:30] <NDEBeach> AR was meh [18:01:35] <NDEBeach> wait

Jul 15th, 2012, 12:34:00 PM	#74
DetroitLolcat It's Great! To Be! A Michigan Wolverine! Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,844	Golurk is definitely a better Pokemon than it used to be, but it's still not UU worthy. It's painfully slow, vulnerable to Spikes, and, worst of all, weak to Water and Grass. It does very little that Rhyperior can't do besides spinblock, but it lacks the recovery to block Rapid Spin for a prolonged period of time. It's a worse Rhyperior that might block Spin once or twice. Not to mention it loses to the Spinners (assuming Hitmontop has Toxic). __________________ Favorite Pokemon-Swampert- formerly OU and staying that way. Cats are awesome, the best kind of cat is the Detroit Lion! Lolcat Nuzlocke Story http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou11556879

Jul 9th, 2012, 2:20:47 PM	#53
~~superbadd~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 357	Is uu gonna retest anything like ou will soon? I think once ou does drop downs there will be loads of new pokes coming into uu. You guys know in dw reni has below ou usage? Seeing sun, hail, sand, and staraptor could be interesting. The baby weather setters will be so cute. <3 Snover, Vulpix, Hippopotas.

Jul 9th, 2012, 2:30:35 PM	#55
~~superbadd~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 357	Ou is bound to do a retest in the next few months, the metagame is starting to settle down after all. Once that happens uu will be effected greatly by future drop downs.

Jul 9th, 2012, 3:05:50 PM	#58
~~superbadd~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 357	Well, yeah they're just assumptions. I understand sand stream being too soon. But maybe when/if ou does drop downs, in another few months after that, it wouldn't be a bad idea for uu to do the same.

Jul 10th, 2012, 2:18:29 PM	#60
Silvershadow234 is MANLY Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 455 England	Really sorry Kokoloko, but my Showdown is really, really lagging-so much that it is actually painful. I'm going to try laddering on PO instead. I have now realised the true monster potential for Ditto. I do hope this thing stays UU-the sheer amount of things this thing deals with is unreal. Obviously, the best check to DD Kingdra-and think about what it will do to Baton Pass teams. Any BP team is going to be counter-swept by Ditto. Scrafty is also easily checked. Easily the most dangerous of the new threats in my opinion-and by far the best stat-up revenger in the game. Mienshao is pretty goos as a scout sure, and Scrafty can wreck teams, but Ditto is in another league... We'll just have to hope that the OU players can realise that Chansey is a fantastic counter to the new genies. However, with Keldeo around...well, I suppose it's a good thing that I run Sub Nasty Plot Mismagius and Banded Heracross huh. Edit: Just checked and Chansey isn't even 2HKO'd from a +6 HP Fighting from Mismagius. Oh dear...may have to run Taunt instead if she drops down to stop her from healing, so she can be destroyed. Or run LO over Leftovers.

Jul 10th, 2012, 4:39:29 PM	#61
Closetalker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 17	At +6 HP Fighting should be a fairly solid 2hko against 252/0 Bold Chansey, which is Chansey's standard spread.

Jul 10th, 2012, 7:01:24 PM	#62
Iridium Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 43	Indeed it is, since chansey doesn't have leftovers. Even if it's running 0/252 bold, can chansey even DO anything to mismagius? assuming missy has sub. Hidden power has more pp than either wish or softboiled, so you should be fine even if you never land a crit.

Jul 10th, 2012, 7:28:19 PM	#63
Pokemazter 04/01/13 never forget Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 614 Edmonton, AB	It gets Thunder Wave, which leaves room for one of it's teammates to drop Mismagius. That's what Chansey does, it's a support Pokemon. It's not supposed to have any offenive presence, and it doesn't. I still think the addition of Mienshao and Scrafty will be enough to keep Chansey at bay. They both have their ways around status, whether it be Substitute, Lum Berry, or Shed Skin in Scrafty's case. I believe the fear around it is simply what it did last time it was in UU, however, the metagame has changed, and it should not be as much of a threat. If it is, then I'm wrong, and shall eat humble pie. I just don't see it being such a problem as it was. It'll end up Borderline anyways, where it belongs. Too good for UU, despite what's new down here, and just not good enough for OU. With Golurk now having Stealth Rock and No-Guard, do you suppose it'll come back up to UU?

Jul 10th, 2012, 9:15:44 PM	#66
Ginku my Angel's on Angel dust Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 572	Golurk probably isn't coming up 2 tiers just because of elemtnal punches and SR. I can see it moving up to RU, but in UU there are better alternatives for basically all it does I also don't think there's a lot of merit in discussing chansey now, considering that the earliest it will drop down is in 3 months, along with all the other tier changes that bw2 will inevitably bring. It's just too hard to predict what the meta will be to have a good basis for a discussion. Anyway, I'm agreeing with PKG in that the metagame is really fun right now, a lot of different teams are around and nothing really sticks out as broken to me. Out of interest, what's the general opinion on moxie heracross? It's been really good in general, but sometimes I kind of wish I had guts instead, since when you're in a position where you can sweep with moxie it usually isn't much harder to get an "unboosted" sweep off. Thoughts on this?

Jul 15th, 2012, 1:14:04 PM	#75
Stormsire Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 14 Being Zany	I'm not claiming him to be superior to Rhyperior in every way, or even superior in general. I merely wanted to say that Golurk is now completely viable, and can find himself a place on teams. The comparisons to Rhyperior are apt, insofar as Rhyperior can do everything, except spinblock, better than Golurk, which is generally true. However, in my experience, Golurk has pulled his weight admirably. The ability to block your own hazards without switching is extremely useful, coupled with the fact he still hits hard enough the opponent needs to be careful of him, and not merely use him as setup fodder. He admirably checks several otherwise dangerous threats such as Heracross, Mienshao and Flygon. Many opponents simply don't know what they're doing against a Golurk, and coupled with the right teammates (Snorlax and Roserade come to mind), Golurk can simply put games away. Is that enough to make him UU? I don't know, probably not. I do know, however, that his role on a team is something that no other pokemon can fill, and that has to count for something. __________________ Derp. That is all.