(Copyediting) Project: Arceus Overview Renovation [GP 0/2 - SEE POST #55]

[shrang]

You should probably mention Grass Arceus's downfalls too, which is basically the fact that it's probably one of the biggest sitting ducks in the metagame and massive Spike fodder.

[barry4ever]

Originally Posted by Fat shrang

You should probably mention Grass Arceus's downfalls too, which is basically the fact that it's probably one of the biggest sitting ducks in the metagame and massive Spike fodder.

I wouldnt really say its a sitting duck, its got twave and toxic to prevent stuff from setting up on it. Mentioned spikes fodder.

[Furai]

Superimp improved and concised my Dark Arceus overview, here is the final result after a quick glance by me:

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<p>When the night comes, fret in paranoia at the uncomfortable feeling that The Creator in His Dread Plate is watching. In His sinister forme, Arceus is notorious for His ability to wreck stall apart. With Recover and Refresh, He can set up on stall with ease using Calm Mind. His nonimmune STAB Dark-type attacks can break through many of His defensive creations, namely Giratina and Lugia. Dark Arceus is not limited to stall breaking though as His immunity to Psychic-type attacks allows Him to defeat even a boosted Mewtwo. Using a support set, Mewtwo fails to OHKO with a +1 Aura Sphere, and in return gets OHKOed by a single Payback after Stealth Rock. Still, Arceus in His frightening guise can be confronted through His weakness to Bug- and Fighting-type attacks. The rise of Ferrothorn hinders His attempt to tear Stall teams apart, due to its access to both Leech Seed and Power Whip. Dialga, Excadrill, Terrakion, and Tyranitar also diminish His chance to sweep. Be prepared to lose the faintest shard of hope when His darkest forme appears in your nightmares!</p>

[Furai]

Posting to say everything is updated!

[Superimp]

As already mentioned by Furai, I gave some suggestions for his Arceus-Dark overview which eventually led to his final product in Post #28. He did some great work!

For any future overview, it is to be noted that:

Originally Posted by Fat Furai

Yeah, we will go Type Arceus. It just sounds better. I will go over all of the overviews before upload and make the changes, no need to update the ones you have done!

Though I personally prefer the Arceus-Type format as it is the "title" of Him, literally every analysis and article refers to Him as Type Arceus. So for any overview, just use Type Arceus. Please comment if you disagree with the Type Arceus format and prefer Arceus-Type.

Anyway, here is the Arceus-Fighting overview:


Arceus-Fighting
Before:

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Great offensive stats, overall defenses that are better than most dedicated walls, and a wide movepool all make Arceus a top-notch threat in Ubers. Furthermore, Fighting Arceus has several advantages over other Arceus formes. First, Fighting Arceus lacks common weaknesses, which makes Him rather hard to take down, especially after a few Calm Mind boosts. Resistances to common attacking types in Dark, Rock, and Bug also allow Fighting Arceus to switch into attacks with relative ease. However, Fighting Arceus isn't without His cons: for example, Fighting-type STAB is not great in Ubers thanks to the popularity of Psychic-types. Nevertheless, Fighting Arceus should not be taken lightly, as He is still a threat every team should prepare for.

After:

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With the arrival of the valiant Arceus in His Fist Plate, you have already lost for He only seeks battle after the victory has already been won. In a courageous forme which defies the Uber metagame, few can endure the coverage of His heroic STAB Fighting-type attacks. Even His prevalent creations Diagla and Ferrothorn admit their defeat at His approach. The gallant incarnation of Him only has the uncommon weaknesses of Flying- and Psychic-type attacks. His resistances to Bug-, Dark-, and Rock-type attacks allow Him to stand triumphant over those who use them. Fighting Arceus makes use of a noble Calm Mind set, for the brawn of a Swords Dance set is inferior. You might hide behind Blissey or Chansey, but even they fail to stop His glorious sweep. Though His fighting spirit can win many battles, He can win the ultimate victory with the use of a support set. His alter ego Arceus-Normal finds Himself overcome by the sheer valor of Him. Unfortunately, His STAB Fighting-type attacks leave but a scratch to His Flying-, Ghost-, Poison-, and Psychic-type creations. Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Mewtwo have the conviction to face even Him in battle. If you foolishly try to challenge the ultimate victor, you will soon realize that defeat is all but inevitable.

Comments:
I took some flavor inspiration from the D/P overview and Sun Tzu's Art of War.

Originally Posted by Fat Furai

- A mention on how well this Arceus beats the mono Dark- and Rock-attackers, which can easily tear Stall-teams apart.
- Mention that this is possibly the most anti metagame Arceus variant thanks to taking on Ferrothorn easily. Also give a mention to the fact that Arceus fighting can take on ExtremeKiller with consumate ease with a bit of bulk and wow. barry4ever

- It is implied that he can beat mono attacking Arceus-Dark and Arceus-Rock in the fifth sentence.

- Ferrothorn is now mentioned. Arceus-Fighting being the most "anti-metagame" forme is not mentioned explicitly though. Please tell me if it should be mentioned.

Comment Addressed by Furai - Implemented

- How Arceus-Fighting can take on Extreme Killer with ease is not mentioned. Lum Berry Extreme Killer can be difficult to handle. Arceus-Fighting is not even the best check to Extreme Killer! If you feel this is absolutely necessary to mention, please tell me.

Comment Addressed by Furai - Implemented


- Added significantly more competitive information like so:

- Blissey, Chansey, Diagla, Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Mewtwo are now mentioned. Please tell me if more or less should be added.
- STAB Fighting-type attacks are now elaborated on.
- Calm Mind VS Swords Dance is now mentioned.
- Support set is now mentioned.

- I got rid of all the useless information along with certain clichés.

- Should His supportive role in some weather (EX: sandstorm) be mentioned?

- This overview might be a bit long though...

- Added flavor to the first/last sentences and a bit in between. Identify the Art of War reference? Might have to change the first flavor sentence a bit because of this... Thoughts?

As always, feel free to comment on this overview. If more (or less) competitive information or flavor is required, don't hesitate to give your opinion.

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In reply to user barry4ever's Arceus-Grass overview:

Good work barry4ever! Your Arceus-Grass overview has much more competitive information than the original overview. I especially liked how you mentioned the Pokémon Arceus-Grass can check besides Groudon and Kyogre. Should be very useful to readers!

Below is the final product of my suggestions [FPS]. You can take and choose whatever you like. These suggestions focus on making the overview more concise, improving flavor, and organizing. I hope you find some of these suggestions useful for your Arceus-Grass overview.


Arceus-Grass
barry4ever's overview:

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Behold the God of Pokemon in His leafy green avatar, as He strides through the lush green fields with the regal air of a king. Dare not incur the wrath of Arceus, for His Judgment is more binding than the strongest vine. Grass Arceus is arguably the best Arceus fome for supporting your team. Thanks to its unique combination of speed and bulk, Grass Arceus can check several threatening Pokemon in Ubers such as Dragon Dance Rayquaza, Zekrom and Palkia with consummate ease, making it a fine utility counter. Grass is also a fantastic defensive typing in Ubers packing solid resistances to Water- and Ground-type attacks. Grass Arceus's major claim to fame is being able to act as an excellent defensive pivot on Uber Rain teams as well as being a darn good Kyogre and Groudon check. The trademark Arceus bulk along with Recover makes Grass Arceus extremely difficult to take down. Similar to every other Arceus forme, Grass Arceus has its share of weaknesses as well. Grass Arceus is really hates entry hazards especially Spikes and Toxic Spikes. It is also very prone to phazing by the likes of Giratina, Dialga, and Lugia who take pitiful damage from Grass Arceus's offensive moves. Nevertheless these flaws are insignificant before its numerous qualities and can be ever fixed with proper team support. Even the powerful juggernauts that infest the Uber tier will fail to uproot the God of the forests.

FPS's overview:

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Behold the artistic masterpiece that is Arceus as He springs to life in His Meadow Plate. In one of the most supportive formes, Grass Arceus has the gift to check both His creations Groudon and Kyogre. He has marvelous resistances to Electric-, Grass-, Ground-, and Water-type attacks, allowing Him to act as a brilliant defensive pivot in rain. His utility knows no bounds as He can check many of His threatening creations, notably Palkia, Rayquaza, and Zekrom. Regrettably, His talent in defense is not reflected in His offense as His STAB Grass-type attacks have dismal coverage. His natural forme leaves Him particularly vulnerable to the many entry hazards and phazers in Ubers. His weaknesses to Bug-, Fire-, Flying-, Ice-, and Poison-type attacks are of no help to His defense. Cherish the nature around you for it is but a manifestation of the wonderful art from The Creator.

Comments:
- Again, you have certainly added lots of competitive information. Why not try making the overview a little more concise like the FPS to add even more?

- Perhaps a mention of His Thunder Waving capabilities might do the trick?

-I noticed how you kept the flavor relatively similar to the original overview. Have you considered a different theme? Possibly artistic? Naturalist? Why not both like the FPS? After all, the original theme conflicts with Arceus-Dragon for regality. Your choice of course...

- I suggest a little flavor in between. Although you do seem to prefer a little less flavor than others, why not try just a little? Perhaps the provided FPS might be of use? If the flavor is too much for your liking, it can be toned down to something more appropriate. Thoughts?

- Though all your points are solid, have you considered reordering them to make certain parts stand out? For example, placing the best traits first and weaker traits after like the FPS might help.

-While reading your overview, I noticed a particular focus on defense/support. This focus fits perfectly with Arceus-Grass! However, have you considered mentioning how His Grass-type is a poor offensive typing? It might put more emphasis on how Grass Arceus = Support. The FPS put this in as a short sentence. After all, Grass-type coverage isn't exactly the best...

- Likewise, why not mention His type weaknesses? They are not the best weaknesses to have...right?

- I highly suggest a mention of His Meadow Plate to be in line with the other Arceus overviews. I know it's a little nitpicky, but it's a relatively quick and easy change.


Again, fine work barry4ever! I await the arrival of your Arceus-Normal overview in the near future. Hope it is a legend worthy of Arceus!

If you have any questions on why I suggest something, please don't hesitate to ask. Thoughts on these suggestions?

[Furai]

On Fighting Arceus, you definitely want to mention it checking Extreme Killer Arceus. It's the only Arceus forme that can actually hit super effectively with it's STAB. Lum Berry Extreme Killer is not very common, actually: | Item | 11.6 | Lum Berry | . It's not a total counter, I agree, but it's a great check and should be mentioned. As for the "anti-metagame" thing, I'd say conclude with that. Fighting Arceus is actually pretty underrated, and can punch great holes in teams with its Calm Mind set and is a great glue for stall teams.

I'll leave Grass Arceus for barry.

[Superimp]

Originally Posted by Fat Furai

On Fighting Arceus, you definitely want to mention it checking Extreme Killer Arceus. It's the only Arceus forme that can actually hit super effectively with it's STAB. Lum Berry Extreme Killer is not very common, actually: | Item | 11.6 | Lum Berry | . It's not a total counter, I agree, but it's a great check and should be mentioned.

The issue I have with the initial comment is that Arceus-Fighting does not take on Extreme Killer Arceus with "consummate ease." Furthermore, according to the May 2012 Wifi Ubers Moveset Analysis, only 5.5% of Arceus-Fighting actually carry Will-O-Wisp. That's even less common than Lum Berry Extreme Killer! Does this usage actually warrant a mention of Will-O-Wisp?

Nevertheless, it cannot be denied that Arceus-Fighting hits Extreme Killer super effectively with His STAB Fighting-type attacks. He also easily deals with Wallceus. Therefore, I will make a mention on how Arceus-Fighting defeats Arceus-Normal. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Fat Furai

As for the "anti-metagame" thing, I'd say conclude with that. Fighting Arceus is actually pretty underrated, and can punch great holes in teams with its Calm Mind set and is a great glue for stall teams.

I don't know... I did already mention Ferrothorn (Chansey/Diagla too) and how His STAB Fighting-type attacks are great in the Uber metagame. I'll wait for one more user to confirm the "anti-metagame" before I add it in. It's only a couple of words anyway.

EDIT: I'll mention it anyway. If you disagree with it being mentioned, please respond!

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Originally Posted by Fat Furai

@Superimp - All has been updated! I'm afraid I cannot let you take Psychic Arceus because someone else might want it before you even get the chance to complete the ones you're already working on.

Just a reminder that Arceus-Psychic is still available. Preferably someone new could work on it?


NOTE: Arceus-Dragon overview has been updated because I noticed some odd issues. Should be fixed now.

[Furai]

Here's the Psychic Arceus Overview, courtesy by Mr.lol:

Psychic Arceus

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Observe, nonbelievers, at the Creator in His calmest from whose power He obtains from the Mind Plate. In this form, He sacrifices His divine typing to banish the gluttonous Chansey and power hungry Mewtwo to the depths of Cocytus. With the ability to utilize STAB Psyshock, the glutton will be unable to counter the Creator, and will forcibly judged from his sins as the pain Psyshock causes shall strip it from half of its health after Stealth Rock. The clone of the ancient one will find it difficult for itself to harm Him, allowing Arceus ample time to rid the fool from the earth with a dark Payback. Unfortunately, He does have His flaws. The Psychic-typing of the Creator forces Him to cringe at the sight of spectral figures, and the creatures that thrive in darkness. If this was not enough, His typing fails to grant many resists, only giving him the edge when He is fighting fellow telekinetics, or fools blinded by their own valiant desires. Nevertheless, do give Him a try, for the battlefield shall shudder with telekinetic forces that He bears when He arrives.

I editted some prose by his request. Comment away~

[Superimp]

In reply to user Mr.lol’s Arceus-Psychic overview:

Great work Mr.lol! Your Arceus-Psychic overview has more competitive information than the original overview. You certainly have added a lot of flavor! This overview already seems much better than the previous one.

Below is the final product of my suggestions [FPS]. You can take and choose whatever you like. These suggestions focus on making the overview more concise, improving flavor, and adding more competitive information. I hope you find some of these suggestions useful for your Arceus-Psychic overview.


Arceus-Psychic
Mr.lol's overview:

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Observe, nonbelievers, at the Creator in His calmest from whose power He obtains from the Mind Plate. In this form, He sacrifices His divine typing to banish the gluttonous Chansey and power hungry Mewtwo to the depths of Cocytus. With the ability to utilize STAB Psyshock, the glutton will be unable to counter the Creator, and will forcibly judged from his sins as the pain Psyshock causes shall strip it from half of its health after Stealth Rock. The clone of the ancient one will find it difficult for itself to harm Him, allowing Arceus ample time to rid the fool from the earth with a dark Payback. Unfortunately, He does have His flaws. The Psychic-typing of the Creator forces Him to cringe at the sight of spectral figures, and the creatures that thrive in darkness. If this was not enough, His typing fails to grant many resists, only giving him the edge when He is fighting fellow telekinetics, or fools blinded by their own valiant desires. Nevertheless, do give Him a try, for the battlefield shall shudder with telekinetic forces that He bears when He arrives.

FPS's overview:

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Watch the impossible become reality when Arceus attaches His Mind Plate. In His serene forme, Arceus embraces a paranormal Calm Mind set which can strike special walls and Calm Minders where they are weakest. With the use of STAB Psyshock, not even His creations Blissey or Chansey can withstand His telekinetic onslaught. Though Mewtwo, mere creation of mortals, has offenses that surpass even Him, His supernatural bulk allows Him to set up with greater ease. In fact, Psychic Arceus can prove an extraordinary utility counter to that very same Mewtwo, for He is more than capable of repelling its obscene might. He also easily deals with His Fighting-type creations. Disappointingly, His resistances to Fighting- and Psychic-type attacks end there, for He cringes at the sight of Bug-, Dark-, and Ghost-type attacks. His STAB Psychic-type attacks are also appalling offensively. Regardless, the feats of The Original One are still beyond the mind, beyond imagination, beyond reality.

Comments:
- Though your overview has less flavor than the original overview, there are parts where the flavor may be unnecessary. I suggest toning down the flavor for these parts. Of course, this is all subjective. As you seem to favor a bit more flavor than others, keeping some of it is perfectly fine. Try not to add too much though!

- By the way, Cocytus = Greek Mythology?
- I also really like your second last sentence. The issue I have with it is that it might be a bit too flavorful for others. We'll see. (I still like it though...)

-The FPS did a bit of concision. Got rid of some repetition.

- Your introduction and conclusion sentences need a lot of work in my opinion. I suggest some connection in theme.

- I provided some alternate sentences which may work better. Do these work better for you?

- The FPS did some reordering. EX: Puts His best traits first, worst traits last. The current ordering of the FPS is the Calm Mind set first, then Mewtwo, and finally flaws. This can be changed of course.

- I highly suggest a more explicit mention of His poor offensive coverage. Psychic-type coverage is pretty poor in Ubers...

- I suggest a more explicit mention of sets AKA Calm Mind and Utility Counter.

-I also suggest a mention on why you would run Arceus-Psychic over Mewtwo as a Calm Minder. Greater bulk is key!

- You might be able to put even more competitive information. Perhaps more mention of His flaws to emphasize that area?

- I noticed you took Lugia away from the overview. Why was Lugia removed?

Again, great work Mr.lol! If you have any questions on why I suggest something, please don't hesitate to ask. Thoughts on these suggestions?

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Only 5 more Arceus overviews to go. We're almost there! Keep it up!

[Mr.lol]

- Though your overview has less flavor than the original overview, there are parts where the flavor may be unnecessary. I suggest toning down the flavor for these parts. Of course, this is all subjective. As you seem to favor a bit more flavor than others, keeping some of it is perfectly fine. Try not to add too much though!
- By the way, Cocytus = Greek Mythology? Yes and no. It was an allusion to the Divine Commedy / Inferno which used a Greek Mythological allusion along with an allusion from Virgil's Aenid
- I also really like your second last sentence. The issue I have with it is that it might be a bit too flavorful for others. We'll see. (I still like it though...)
-The FPS did a bit of concision. Got rid of some repetition.

- Your introduction and conclusion sentences need a lot of work in my opinion. I suggest some connection in theme.
- I provided some alternate sentences which may work better. Do these work better for you? I'm fine with the alternate sentences.
- The FPS did some reordering. EX: Puts His best traits first, worst traits last. The current ordering of the FPS is the Calm Mind set first, then Mewtwo, and finally flaws. This can be changed of course. It probably works better to keep it in line with all the rest of the overview's so I'm fine with this also

- I highly suggest a more explicit mention of His poor offensive coverage. Psychic-type coverage is pretty poor in Ubers... Focus Miss pairs up most of his coverage problems unless the enemy is a psychic type (and most Psychics are frail), only problem is Lugia, who forces out practically all Arceus unless he's hit super effectively by them (like Rockceus, not Groundceus since even at +1 its Ice Beams tickle).

- I suggest a more explicit mention of sets AKA Calm Mind and Utility Counter. Tried to do that by mentioning Mewtwo and +1 Psyshock, but you mentioned it better anyhow.
-I also suggest a mention on why you would run Arceus-Psychic over Mewtwo as a Calm Minder. Greater bulk is key! You mentioned this, whereas I forgot to mention this, fine with the change anyhow.
- You might be able to put even more competitive information. Perhaps more mention of His flaws to emphasize that area? You mentioned all the flaws technically, we could go into how it can be revenge killed but that's a problem for every arceus... and its not mentioned in the other overviews and consistency is probably more important
- I noticed you took Lugia away from the overview. Why was Lugia removed? I thought it was originally mentioned as a competitor for the calm mind war and CM lugia sucks, its outclassed by Psychic Arceus and Flying Arceus by far (I THINK Trickroom posted this also but I haven't been able to find his post anywhere...), and I completely forgot that it perfectly counters the CM set, so I AM mentioning the latter now :P.

I addressed all comments / questions in bold.

Only change I feel is nessecary now is Lugia so...

Changed Overview

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Watch the impossible become reality when Arceus attaches His Mind Plate. In His serene forme, Arceus embraces a paranormal Calm Mind set which can strike special walls and Calm Minders where they are weakest. With the use of STAB Psyshock, not even His creations Blissey or Chansey can withstand His telekinetic onslaught. Though Mewtwo, mere creation of mortals, has offenses that surpass even Him, His supernatural bulk allows Him to set up with greater ease. In fact, Psychic Arceus can prove an extraordinary utility counter to that very same Mewtwo, for He is more than capable of repelling its obscene might. He also easily deals with His Fighting-type creations. Disappointingly, His resistances to Fighting- and Psychic-type attacks end there, for He cringes at the sight of Bug-, Dark-, and Ghost-type attacks. His STAB Psychic-type attacks are also appalling offensively, forcing the creator to rely on the innaccurate Focus Blast for coverage. Unfortunately, this cannot stop him from succumbing to the will of the great bird of the seas-- Lugia (THESE ARE EM DASHES). Regardless, the feats of The Original One are still beyond the mind, beyond imagination, beyond reality.

Really didn't do anything aside add some information about Lugia being problematic for Psychic-Arceus, change syntax if you need to, since EM Dashes aren't fun :(. Completely fine with everything else in the FPS though, thank you SuperImp.

EDIT: The second overview was fine, his creation can be kept :P. I didn't post again to avoid constantly bumping this, so the overview is fine and should be done.

EDIT 2: FOR THOSE THAT MISUNDERSTOOD THE FIRST EDIT IS DIRECTED TOWARD THE POST BELOW. Also thanking SuperImp for help and apologizing if he got confused :(.

[Superimp]

Looks good Mr.lol! What I meant about poor offensive coverage was that His STAB Psychic-type attacks aren't that good in Ubers, especially with Psyshock. Your added information on Focus Blast works great though. Anyway, just a few prose nitpicks and this overview should be ready to go!


Arceus-Psychic

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Watch the impossible become reality when Arceus attaches His Mind Plate. In His serene forme, Arceus embraces a paranormal Calm Mind set which can strike special walls and Calm Minders where they are weakest. With the use of STAB Psyshock, not even His creations Blissey or Chansey can withstand His telekinetic onslaught. Though Mewtwo, mere creation of mortals, has offenses that surpass even Him, His supernatural bulk allows Him to set up with greater ease. In fact, Psychic Arceus can prove an extraordinary utility counter to that very same Mewtwo, for He is more than capable of repelling its obscene might. He also easily deals with His Fighting-type creations. Disappointingly, His resistances to Fighting- and Psychic-type attacks end there, for He cringes at the sight of Bug-, Dark-, and Ghost-type attacks. His STAB Psychic-type attacks are also appalling offensively, forcing The Creator to rely on the inaccurate Focus Blast for coverage. Even then, His creation Lugia, The Guardian of the Sea, walls Him for eternity. Regardless, the feats of The Original One are still beyond the mind, beyond imagination, beyond reality.

NOTE: For the Lugia sentence, the His creation can be removed if necessary.


P.S. So that's where your Cocytus reference came from :P. Should have known...

[Furai]

Arceus-Electric

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From the dark clouds, a devastating lightning is seen, after which the Zeus of Pokemon appears, with the crackling sound of a thunder. In His voltaic form, Arceus recruits the divine power of thunders and lightnings, bringing savage ruin and heavenly punishment upon those who oppose Him. The jaw-dropping power of its electric lances—combined with its icy beams and blasts of focus, that provide remarkable coverage—will numb the fighting spirit of any creature of the earth foolish enough to attempt to stand up to the wrath of its creator. Even the mighty titans of Ubers: Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Kyogre, will fall against the electrical creator, all thanks to His fantastic Electric-type STAB and the ability to unleash an accurate Thunder in rain, a common weather in Ubers. However, fitting Electric Arceus into your team can often be difficuly, as a good amount of team support is required to unleash a storm of powerful bolts. The prevalence of Ferrothorn, Dialga, and Tyranitar also require to pack Focus Blast in order to get past them reliably, resulting in less coverage or no recovery. Electric Arceus is not occupied with any good resistances and a weakness to Ground-type moves, making it harder for He, with all His bulk, to switch in. The electrifying one does not enjoy status either, and with status-inflicting Pokemon, such as Forretress and the pink blobs, Chansey and Blissey, His sweep is found at risk. It is most unwise to obstruct the path of the voltaic one, or else the wicked streak of a lightning bolt will be the last thing you shall ever see.

Alright, I REALLY liked the flavor of the original overview so I kept most of it. If anyone has any problem with that, let me know and I'll go change. I added the comments that were addressed by barry and my own stuff, such as weaknesses, 4MSS, etc.

Comment away~

[shrang]

This is my Electric Arceus description from barry and my (unconscious?) Ubers Offense Article:

Electric Arceus shows the mortals who is Zeus with its mighty bolts of lightning. Electric is a fantastic typing, both offensively and defensively. Offensively, it hits many Ubers for neutral damage and easily defeats the common checks to other Calm Mind Arceus formes, such as Kyogre and Ho-oh. Defensively, it only has one weakness, albeit a rather common one in Ground-type. With a simple Calm Mind set, it rains terror into its opponents with its Electric STAB in the form of Thunderbolt, Judgment, or Thunder, which destroys many Ubers such as Kyogre, Palkia, Ho-oh, and Lugia. Ice Beam completes the BoltBeam combo, while it can either use Focus Blast in the final slot swat aside Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Dialga; or use Recover to gain more Calm Minds. Without the use of pink blobs, Electric Arceus will truly show you how terrifying a thunderstorm can be.

Obviously it needs improvement, but it would be nice to see a few things in there be included, IMO. I like my Zeus mention =).

[Furai]

I actually got most of it shrang, lol. I'll add the Focus Blast on Dialga and Tyranitar, and give the bink blobs a small mention. Will add Zeus thing first sentence!

[Furai]

I would like to start the Flying Arceus overview, but there literally are no comments. I honestly think it looks good as well. Perhaps a few flavor additions here and there, but I think it gives a concise competitive information. What do you guys think?

[Superimp]

In reply to Furai’s Arceus-Electric overview:

Your Arceus-Electric overview looks quite nice Furai! You managed to add significantly more competitive information while also keeping flavor (The flavor of the original overview was quite nice, I agree). I especially liked how you implemented points such as 4MSS into the overview. Great improvement over the original!

Below is the final product of my suggestions [FPS]. You can take and choose whatever you like. These suggestions focus on making the overview more concise and improving flavor. I hope you find some of these suggestions useful for your Arceus-Electric overview.


Arceus-Electric
Furai's overview:

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From the dark clouds, a devastating lightning is seen, after which the Zeus of Pokemon appears, with the crackling sound of a thunder. In His voltaic form, Arceus recruits the divine power of thunders and lightnings, bringing savage ruin and heavenly punishment upon those who oppose Him. The jaw-dropping power of its electric lances—combined with its icy beams and blasts of focus, that provide remarkable coverage—will numb the fighting spirit of any creature of the earth foolish enough to attempt to stand up to the wrath of its creator. Even the mighty titans of Ubers: Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Kyogre, will fall against the electrical creator, all thanks to His fantastic Electric-type STAB and the ability to unleash an accurate Thunder in rain, a common weather in Ubers. However, fitting Electric Arceus into your team can often be difficuly, as a good amount of team support is required to unleash a storm of powerful bolts. The prevalence of Ferrothorn, Dialga, and Tyranitar also require to pack Focus Blast in order to get past them reliably, resulting in less coverage or no recovery. Electric Arceus is not occupied with any good resistances and a weakness to Ground-type moves, making it harder for He, with all His bulk, to switch in. The electrifying one does not enjoy status either, and with status-inflicting Pokemon, such as Forretress and the pink blobs, Chansey and Blissey, His sweep is found at risk. It is most unwise to obstruct the path of the voltaic one, or else the wicked streak of a lightning bolt will be the last thing you shall ever see.

FPS's overview:

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In the midst of cataclysmic bolts of lightning and the crackling sound of thunder, Arceus in His Zap Plate shows the mortals who Zeus is. It is no bolt from the blue that His energized state is one of the most offensive formes. Wielding the jaw-dropping power of STAB Electric-type attacks, Electric Arceus hurls Thunderbolts or Thunders under Rain to devastating effect. Even His imposing creations Ho-Oh, Kyogre, and Lugia slink away from His malevolent storm. Yet with such striking offense, His defense is but a tinge of a zap. Resistances to Flying- and Steel-type attacks lack potential, while a common weakness to Ground-type attacks proves most diverting. His electrifying forme struggles without sufficient boosts to avoid short-circuiting amidst the attacks of His Uber creations. Diagla, Ferrothorn, and Tyrantiar, prevalent among His creations, require Focus Blast to be annihilated, leaving Him with either less coverage or no Recover. It is most unwise to obstruct the path of the voltaic one, or else a wicked streak of lightning will be the last thing you shall ever see.

Comments:

- When reading your first sentence, something feels a little odd. Maybe it’s a little tame, maybe it’s the commas. Have you considered rewording? For example, the FPS implements a more “Zeus” idea with a bigger connection to the overall theme of the overview. If you would rather use your own first sentence (Which works), try connecting it more with the main theme. Might help the flow and it wouldn't be too much of a hassle if you chose to do it.

- I highly suggest a mention of His Zap Plate to be in line with the other Arceus overviews. Something like the FPS first sentence might work. I know it's a little nitpicky, but it's a relatively quick and easy change.

- Again, there's lots of useful competitive information! Why not try making the overview a little more concise like the FPS to put a larger emphasis on it?

- Some flavor sentences may be a little too flavorful for some. For example, though the second sentence is great, it doesn't exactly tell us much. Perhaps a combination of flavor and competitive information for each sentence might work better? Check the FPS for some examples.

- Though all your points are solid, have you considered reordering them to make certain parts stand out? For example, placing the best traits first and weaker traits after like the FPS might help.

- As an example, if I wanted to use Arceus-Electric, it would be because Arceus-Electric is one of the most offensive formes. This would then be followed by His STAB Electric-type attacks, which would then...

- Instead of mentioning how He is hard to switch-in, maybe mention how it is hard to take common attacks without boosts. It's not like His defensive typing is as poor as Ice! Maybe something like the FPS?

- You may have noticed I took some of your points out of the FPS. That's because they are here:

- Combined with Ice Beam and Focus Blast, His coverage can be shocking to observe.

- With further use of Ice Beam and Focus Blast, His coverage can be a shock to observe.

- What more, the pure destructive force that is Electric Arceus is difficult to fit into a team, for much support is necessary to unleash His true potential.

- His creations Blissey and Chansey have the resistance to stand up to His chaotic might.

- These points may have to be reworded slightly if you implement them. The reason I left them out was that the overview got a bit convoluted with their addition. Of course, your choice to implement.

-Blissey/Chansey might require a mention for the Arceus-Fire and Arceus-Ice overviews if you include it here, which might seem a bit repetitive (As well as for many other Calm Mind Arceus sets...) Is Chansey/Blissey an absolutely necessary mention?
- Ice Beam and Focus Blast can be seen in the set comments. Is it overview material?
-The team support part is your choice, I just had a little difficulty trying to actually add it in without the prose going all crazy!

Again, great work Furai! I await the arrival of your Arceus-Flying overview in the near future.

If you have any questions on why I suggest something, please don't hesitate to ask. Thoughts on these suggestions?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Fat Furai

I would like to start the Flying Arceus overview, but there literally are no comments. I honestly think it looks good as well. Perhaps a few flavor additions here and there, but I think it gives a concise competitive information. What do you guys think?

Just for reference, here's the Arceus-Flying overview as it stands right now:

...

---

In this forme, The Creator descends from the heavens to smite the evil and unjust with His extraordinarily powerful Judgment. Flying Arceus is not common due to two major downfalls. The first is a weakness to Stealth Rock; taking 25% each time Arceus switches in is not pleasant. However, Arceus doesn't take any damage from Spikes or get poisoned by Toxic Spikes, which makes Him an efficient stallbreaker. Secondly, Flying is a poor defensive typing, as the only useful traits it grants Arceus are a Fighting resistance and a Ground immunity. However, conversely, Arceus's STAB Flying-type attacks are only resisted by a few common Pokemon in this metagame, specifically Dialga, Zekrom, Tyranitar, and Jirachi. While other Flying-types, such as Ho-Oh and Shaymin-S, might seem to outclass Arceus in the role of an offensive Flying-type due to their abilities and better STAB combinations, Flying Arceus is the only Flying-type that can reliably boost His offenses to tremendous levels. Furthermore, Arceus possesses great overall bulk: after a Calm Mind or two, even super effective moves will fail to dent Him, and few Pokemon will be able to stand up against His wrath.

Here are my comments relevant to competitive information right now:

• Current competitive information is quite solid.
• Like Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Ice, etc., it's somewhat hard for Arceus-Flying to take common attacks without boosts.
  • Especially with Rock-, Electric-, and Ice-type weaknesses
• If you feel the overview is too short (Which it isn't in my opinion), you could mention Arceus-Flying is pretty much stuck as Calm Mind, defensive sets aren't that effective. Your choice though.
• You could mention significant checks/counters. Only if you feel the overview is too short (Which it isn't in my opinion). Your choice though.

Here are my overview comments right now:

• It might help organization if you started with the positives and then the negatives. Right now, it's a mix in between.
• By applying the same amount of polish that the current competitive information has, I am positive the first and last flavor sentence will be as good or even better.
  • I really like the "descending" part. Perhaps something about the "Hall of Origin" might work?
  • Last sentence may need a rework.
• General concision and a bit of flavor in between would be nice.

I hope you find these comments useful for your Arceus-Flying overview.

[jc104]

I really don't understand what the problem is with cliches in the context. I mean, arceus overviews were always extremely cliched - and that was half the fun of them. If it were up to me, I would go as far as to actively encourage them. Underestimate cliches at your peril!!!

A number of these overviews are no longer remotely funny and read poorly, even worse than before. Gleaning information from them is still not easy. As always, there is the odd word that just makes absolutely no sense in context, as if the writer has not even bothered to look it up in a dictionary. If they're going to look like this just write normal overviews.

Finally, please don't touch the old normal arceus overview. That's been there for years and is a total classic. THE CONSEQUENCES SHALL BE MERCILESS.

[Superimp]

Originally Posted by Fat jc104

I really don't understand what the problem is with cliches in the context. I mean, arceus overviews were always extremely cliched - and that was half the fun of them. If it were up to me, I would go as far as to actively encourage them. Underestimate cliches at your peril!!!

A number of these overviews are no longer remotely funny and read poorly, even worse than before. Gleaning information from them is still not easy. As always, there is the odd word that just makes absolutely no sense in context, as if the writer has not even bothered to look it up in a dictionary. If they're going to look like this just write normal overviews.

Finally, please don't touch the old normal arceus overview. That's been there for years and is a total classic. THE CONSEQUENCES SHALL BE MERCILESS.

As you probably already know jc104, there were several "complaints" about the previous Arceus overviews being "extremely cliched" or "too flavorful." Just check this thread for examples. In fact, you are the first person in a long time to explicitly support this option.

Before this thread, the Arceus overviews were split between "all competitive," "all flavor," or "competitive/flavor." Arceus-Ground's overview would be an example of "all competitive." Arceus-Psychic's overview would be an example of "all flavor." Arceus-Water's overview would be an example of "competitive/flavor." Clearly, this isn't very consistent.

Personally, I don't think the Arceus overviews were supposed to be funny. It's not like He is Farfetch'd or Luvdisc, this is Arceus we are talking about.

It is entirely possible to make an overview which has good competitive information as well as epic flavor. One doesn't have to limit him or herself to the extremes of "all flavor" or "all competitive," a mix of both can work perfectly fine when done right. This is where you come in.

I noticed you made some comments about some overviews being hard to read. Could you please tell us the overviews which need improvement? It doesn't exactly help us improve the overviews in question if you don't tell us where to look.

It is to be noted that all these overviews are in a working state. Some like Arceus-Water haven't started the updating process. Others like Arceus-Grass have suggestions which haven't been fully addressed yet. If you have the time and have not done so already, read through the entire thread to see our work process. Also check Post #6.

Throughout this thread, you'll see peer edits, constant tweaking, and collaboration. All these steps are to ensure overview quality. I myself was planning on a major update for all my overviews once this project nears completion to check up on prose, uniqueness, possible flavor issues (Arceus-Steel in particular), and more.

We would greatly appreciate your feedback jc104. I am sure your GP experience will prove most useful in ensuring the overviews are of the quality Smogon analyses are known for. It is a team effort after all.

Thanks for your input! It's always welcomed.

P.S. Try asking barry4ever about your Arceus-Normal overview concerns. Last I heard, he was the one who wanted to update the overview. Oh, and I did use a dictionary ;).

[Poppy]

superimp you've been doing a lot of good work for ubers qc and it would probably help you a lot if you came on irc

i'm actually in favour of all competitive overviews but i realize that flavour holds a lot of nostalgic and entertainment (although i question the presence of the latter) value with quite a few users

with that being said I do think flying arceus' overview does go into too much detail, it basically has a flying-type mini analysis. concision is key and a lot of what you have said can be reworded in a more succinct and readable fashion.

i'm reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally more willing to help out with a lot of things on irc as opposed to the forums and i'm sure at least some people feel that way too.

you can save yourself a lot of time just by running sentences, overviews, changes, movesets, ev spreads through people in #ubers

[alexwolf]

Originally Posted by Fat Arceus-Ghost overview

His immunities to Normal- and Fighting-type attacks allow Him to be one of the few viable spinblockers in the tier of Ubers.

This sentence says that because Arceus-Ghost is immune to Normal and Fighting attacks, he can block Rapid Spin, which is false. He can block Rapid Spin, because he is immune to Normal attacks, period.

[jc104]

I suppose people will always complain whatever you do. Anyway, I'm happy to help with grammar checking whenever stuff is ready. For now I'll just point out the few nasty words/phrases that jumped out at me:

Dark:

• "wreck stall apart" - confuses wreck with rip, makes no sense.
• "nonimmune" - I question that this is a word at all, but it definitely doesn't mean what you think it does.

Dragon:

• Imbued
• "Arceus-Dragon can run a terrifying Swords Dance set or a Calm Mind set that few Dragon-types can claim" - every arceus can run a calm mind or SD set. I don't know what you mean by "few dragons can claim".

Rock:

• "The oldest Pokemon Arceus returns and becomes the very qualities of the rocks themselves through the Stone Plate". Arceus is becoming qualities?

Steel

• "Poison-type attacks are futile against His durability" very strange use of durability.

[Superimp]

Here are my replies to Poppy, alexwolf, and jc104.

Replying to Poppy:

...

---

Thanks Poppy. I can just imagine the possibilities of IRC. Unfortunately, I am very inexperienced with it as I have never used it before. Regardless, I'll definitely think over your suggestion on trying out IRC. It would certainly allow a greater connection towards all of the Smogon community.

The Arceus-Flying overview probably would benefit from some general concision. I'm sure Furai will take this into account when he updates the overview upon his return. Do you have any specific suggestions for where concision might be necessary?

Thanks Poppy for your input.

Replying to alexwolf:

...

---

The purpose of this sentence was to mention His immunities as well as His viability as a spinblocker. It is generally assumed Ghost-type Pokemon are spinblockers because Rapid Spin is a Normal-type move. Still, I like your idea on improving clarity. I'll try splitting up the sentence so that His immunities and spinblocking capabilities are better addressed. Thanks alexwolf for your suggestion.

Replying to jc104:

...

---

Thanks for your offer to grammar check whenever stuff is ready! For now, here are some specific comments concerning your suggestions:

Arceus-Dark

• Yes, the word choice of "wreck" is not the best. In fact, it is likely this sentence will be reworded to better fit the "dark" theme of the overview.
• I think the word "nonimmune" was used as an emphasis on how no Pokemon is immune to His STAB Dark-type attacks. This sentence might be split up or reworded.

Arceus-Dragon

• Imbued will be changed to something more appropriate.
• The intention of "few dragons can claim" was to state how Arceus-Dragon is one of the few viable Dragon-types in Ubers which can use a Calm Mind set effectively (AKA Giratina formes and Latias/Latios). I suppose this sentence could be reworded to emphasize this fact.

Arceus-Rock

• I'll see if I can reword this. I too am not satisfied with this sentence.

Arceus-Steel

• Yes, durability isn't the best word. My intention was to show how Poison-type attacks are ineffective against Him. I'll change it to something more appropriate.

Thanks jc104 for your input!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for all your input! Any applicable suggestions will be implemented as soon as possible.

If anyone has suggestions on word/phrase choice, we would really appreciate it. It's always welcome. Thanks.

[Furai]

Updated the OP with Electric Arceus overview, thanks again Supermp!


I also greatly appreciate the comments and input you guys gave. However, in order to help me to keep track, if you do any changes, please post them in a new post, either as a new overview or as a list. Thanks in advance!

[Furai]

Arceus-Flying

...

---

In this forme, The Creator descends from its heavenly Hall of Origin to smite the evil and unjust with His extraordinarily powerful Judgment. However, Flying Arceus is not common due to two major downfalls; The first is a weakness to Stealth Rock. taking 25% each time Arceus switches in is not pleasant. Secondly, Flying is a poor defensive typing, as the only useful traits it grants Arceus are a Fighting resistance and a Ground immunity, that can barely overcome the weaknesses to common Rock-, Electric-, and Ice-type moves. However, conversely, Arceus's STAB Flying-type attacks are only resisted by a few common Pokemon in this metagame, specifically Dialga, Zekrom, Tyranitar, and Jirachi. And while He does take a notable amount of damage from Stealth Rock, Flying Arceus is immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, making Him an efficient stallbreaker. While other Flying-types, such as Ho-Oh and Shaymin-S, might seem to outclass Arceus in the role of an offensive Flying-type due to their abilities and better STAB combinations, Flying Arceus is the only Flying-type that can reliably boost His offenses to tremendous levels. Furthermore, Arceus possesses great overall bulk: after a Calm Mind or two, even super effective moves will fail to dent Him, and only a few Pokemon will be able to stand up against His wrath.

I actually didn't do much; just moved a few sentences to match better the pros-cons structure, and some rewording. Ideas for flavor appreciated, I'm really bad at those!

[Superimp]

In reply to Furai’s Arceus-Flying overview:

Saw your post, read the first line of the overview, noticed Hall of Origin. Very nice.

Although the overview is in essence unchanged, I did notice a mention of His common weaknesses. It seems quite appropriate as it adds a touch more competitive information to further explain His defense typing.

Anyway, below is the final product of my suggestions [FPS]. You can take and choose whatever you like. These suggestions focus on making the overview more concise, reordering, and improving flavor.


Arceus-Flying
Furai's overview:

...

---

In this forme, The Creator descends from its heavenly Hall of Origin to smite the evil and unjust with His extraordinarily powerful Judgment. However, Flying Arceus is not common due to two major downfalls; The first is a weakness to Stealth Rock. taking 25% each time Arceus switches in is not pleasant. Secondly, Flying is a poor defensive typing, as the only useful traits it grants Arceus are a Fighting resistance and a Ground immunity, that can barely overcome the weaknesses to common Rock-, Electric-, and Ice-type moves. However, conversely, Arceus's STAB Flying-type attacks are only resisted by a few common Pokemon in this metagame, specifically Dialga, Zekrom, Tyranitar, and Jirachi. And while He does take a notable amount of damage from Stealth Rock, Flying Arceus is immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, making Him an efficient stallbreaker. While other Flying-types, such as Ho-Oh and Shaymin-S, might seem to outclass Arceus in the role of an offensive Flying-type due to their abilities and better STAB combinations, Flying Arceus is the only Flying-type that can reliably boost His offenses to tremendous levels. Furthermore, Arceus possesses great overall bulk: after a Calm Mind or two, even super effective moves will fail to dent Him, and only a few Pokemon will be able to stand up against His wrath.

FPS's overview:

...

---

Hark the hallowed voices that cry from The Original One, as He descends from the heavenly Hall of Origin as holy as His Sky Plate. Soaring above the Spikes and Toxic Spikes bound to mortal lands below, Arceus pronounces His Judgment to be heard from the heavens. The Uber tier stands silent before Him, for none are immune against nearly unresisted STAB Flying-type attacks. Although His creations Ho-Oh and Shaymin-S have dual STABs and advantageous abilities to contest for the offensive supremacy of the sky, only He can viably use Calm Mind to reach heights beyond the limits of which can be seen. Yet even Flying Arceus can fall from the heavens. A weakness to Stealth Rock proves a great obstacle for His overall well-being. Though He resists Bug-, Grass-, and Fighting-type attacks and heeds no Ground-type attack, without the purity that comes from within a Calm Mind, the saintly Arceus plummets like a falling star in face of common Electric-, Ice-, and Rock-type attacks. Cry not in despair, for when the time comes when the heavens finally open, His Judgment shall come as swiftly as the tempest of a thousand gales.

Comments:

...

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- The FPS sentence "Yet even Flying Arceus can fall from the heavens." can be changed to "Yet even Flying Arceus can fall from grace." depending on personal preference.

- When reading your overview, I can definitely tell that the emphasis is on the competitive information. This information is quite helpful. But is there perhaps too much detail like Poppy said? For example, listing the Pokemon who resist STAB Flying-type attacks might be a bit excessive. Perhaps some concision and placing a bit more emphasis on flavor like the FPS might help?

- Like you said, you were having a little difficulty with the flavor. Have you considered a slight variation on the current theme? For example, the FPS uses a kinda "Angelic/Saint/Heavens" theme.

- I provided some introduction/conclusion sentences which might work better. Do these work better for you?

- I suggest a little flavor in between. Although you do seem to prefer a little less flavor than others, why not try just a little? Perhaps the provided FPS might be of use? If the flavor is too much for your liking, it can be toned down to something more appropriate (As this was a kinda "Angelic/Saint/Heavens" theme, I used a bit more flavor in order to maximize the connection with the theme. Hopefully the word count is still reasonable). Thoughts?

- Like the other Arceus overviews, do you think a mention of His Sky Plate might be beneficial? Something like the FPS first sentence might work.

- Though all your points are solid, have you considered reordering them to make certain parts stand out? EX: Puts His best traits first, worst traits last. The current ordering of the FPS has Spikes/Toxic Spikes immunity listed first, then how good His STAB Flying-type attacks are, then etc. This can be changed of course.

Hope you find these suggestions (Particularly the flavor) useful! You still did some nice work Furai as I'm pretty sure you wrote the original overview. I could be wrong though.

If you have any questions on why I suggest something, please don't hesitate to ask. Thoughts on these suggestions?

----------------------------------------

The overviews that I specifically wrote will soon undergo an update (Arceus-Rock and Arceus-Steel in particular). The suggestions of jc104 and alexwolf will be implemented.

If anyone has suggestions on the word/phrase choice of any overview, it's always welcome!