(Programming) The New Black And White Damage Formula

Sopan · Jul 11th, 2012, 7:24:49 AM

OK, first thing's first: We all have been yelling about things like 'Hey, the 5th generation brought a hell lot of changes to the metagame', 'It has changed the metagame a lot', etc. But didn't something go unnoticed? Didn't we think for a single time that the damage formula, the big maths behind all those Mystical Creatures using supernaturally powerful 'moves', could have been changed in this generation?

Well, the ACTUAL damage formula for Gen V's been revealed now, thanks to Xfr, Bond697, Kaphotics and V4Victini!!!!! The basic purpose of this thread is to inform everybody that the good ol' formula we have been using for a long time is no longer the most accurate one. According to the article of the 'complete damage formula for Black and White', the older formula was 'derived empirically by X-Act from running it countless times, an approach that is both tedious and prone to errors.' So, wouldn't it be beneficial for us to leave that old formula and replace it with the new one?

Now one may ask about the actual changes in the formula for Black and White. The main changes revolve around the rounding mechanics, whereas other changes are like: Flash Fire actually directly boosts the Atk/SAtk of the Pokémon instead of being multiplied later in the formula as a modifier, Life Orb boosts the power of moves by 29.98046875%, Analytic's boost is a 30.0048828125%! So the two formulas have some noticeable difference.

In the end I'd like to inform those interested, that two damage calculators using the new formula are already out:

(i) Honkalculator 4000 (Made by Honko)

(ii) The Pokétron Damage Calculator (Made By ME, :D)

So, there we go. Now lets forget the old damage formula and start using this grabbed-from-the-game formula for Black and White. :)

firecape · Jul 13th, 2012, 4:59:13 PM

Ummm what exactly are you trying to say ?_?

We are keeping the article by X-Act because that is the Generation 4 damage formula. It's clearly labeled as such. We have an article for the Generation 5 damage formula (which you know because you linked to both of these articles). I'm not really sure what you are trying to accomplish with this thread but the best guess I can make is that you are trying to get us to remove X-Act's article. That's not going to happen because (to my knowledge at least?) that is the correct formula for gen 4. None of this is new or anything either.

Sopan · Jul 13th, 2012, 11:44:54 PM

I apologize if I was unclear but my sole objective of writing this thread was to inform the competitive players of Pokémon and the developers of battle simulators that the Gen 4 damage formula shouldn't be used with B/W damage calculations. This is due to the fact that most Gen 5 damage calculators and simulators still use the Gen 4 formula instead of the Gen 5 one in B/W damage calculations...

That was all I wanted to say.

Kaphotics · Jul 17th, 2012, 7:52:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat firecape

That's not going to happen because (to my knowledge at least?) that is the correct formula for gen 4.

I'd reckon that it isn't completely correct; trials by hand can be accurate -- but not as precise as debugging (which was done for the Gen V formula). Gen IV/V are very similar as to how different processes work, so I'd bet that Gen IV also uses a modifier based formula.

=

As for simulator implementation, PS! has already added the proper formula. PO hasn't shown any activity.

Sopan · Jul 18th, 2012, 1:50:09 AM

Thanks for the information, Kaphotics. But I still think Pokémon Online should start using this formula. This is because of the fact that accuracy is a main factor for any simulator, am I right?

Actually, I'm still not sure why the (most likely) 100% accurate formula hasn't received as much response as it was supposed to. I mean, there is only one simulator using it and just two damage calculators. That is pretty sad :(

Jul 11th, 2012, 7:24:49 AM	#1
Sopan Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 10	The New Black And White Damage Formula OK, first thing's first: We all have been yelling about things like 'Hey, the 5th generation brought a hell lot of changes to the metagame', 'It has changed the metagame a lot', etc. But didn't something go unnoticed? Didn't we think for a single time that the damage formula, the big maths behind all those Mystical Creatures using supernaturally powerful 'moves', could have been changed in this generation? Well, the ACTUAL damage formula for Gen V's been revealed now, thanks to Xfr, Bond697, Kaphotics and V4Victini!!!!! The basic purpose of this thread is to inform everybody that the good ol' formula we have been using for a long time is no longer the most accurate one. According to the article of the 'complete damage formula for Black and White', the older formula was 'derived empirically by X-Act from running it countless times, an approach that is both tedious and prone to errors.' So, wouldn't it be beneficial for us to leave that old formula and replace it with the new one? Now one may ask about the actual changes in the formula for Black and White. The main changes revolve around the rounding mechanics, whereas other changes are like: Flash Fire actually directly boosts the Atk/SAtk of the Pokémon instead of being multiplied later in the formula as a modifier, Life Orb boosts the power of moves by 29.98046875%, Analytic's boost is a 30.0048828125%! So the two formulas have some noticeable difference. In the end I'd like to inform those interested, that two damage calculators using the new formula are already out: (i) Honkalculator 4000 (Made by Honko) (ii) The Pokétron Damage Calculator (Made By ME, :D) So, there we go. Now lets forget the old damage formula and start using this grabbed-from-the-game formula for Black and White. :) __________________ Try out my Gen V Damage Calculator. It's cool and accurate --- just what you wanted! Download it now! Last edited by Sopan; Dec 17th, 2012 at 8:56:47 AM.

Jul 13th, 2012, 4:59:13 PM	#2
firecape This is the end... Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,048 This storys old, but it goes on and on until we disappear	Ummm what exactly are you trying to say ?_? We are keeping the article by X-Act because that is the Generation 4 damage formula. It's clearly labeled as such. We have an article for the Generation 5 damage formula (which you know because you linked to both of these articles). I'm not really sure what you are trying to accomplish with this thread but the best guess I can make is that you are trying to get us to remove X-Act's article. That's not going to happen because (to my knowledge at least?) that is the correct formula for gen 4. None of this is new or anything either. __________________ I DONT DESERVE YOU

Jul 13th, 2012, 11:44:54 PM	#3
Sopan Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 10	I apologize if I was unclear but my sole objective of writing this thread was to inform the competitive players of Pokémon and the developers of battle simulators that the Gen 4 damage formula shouldn't be used with B/W damage calculations. This is due to the fact that most Gen 5 damage calculators and simulators still use the Gen 4 formula instead of the Gen 5 one in B/W damage calculations... That was all I wanted to say. __________________ Try out my Gen V Damage Calculator. It's cool and accurate --- just what you wanted! Download it now!

Jul 18th, 2012, 1:50:09 AM	#5
Sopan Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 10	Thanks for the information, Kaphotics. But I still think Pokémon Online should start using this formula. This is because of the fact that accuracy is a main factor for any simulator, am I right? Actually, I'm still not sure why the (most likely) 100% accurate formula hasn't received as much response as it was supposed to. I mean, there is only one simulator using it and just two damage calculators. That is pretty sad :( __________________ Try out my Gen V Damage Calculator. It's cool and accurate --- just what you wanted! Download it now!