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Jul 13th, 2012, 5:52:12 PM
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#1 |
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 90
bask in my light
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Fighting Fire! [Around 1400 on Beta]
Fighting Fire!       -------- Introduction -------- -------- Team -------- Latias @ Choice Specs *** Matches Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Draco Meteor - Surf - Psyshock / Grass Knot / Recover - Trick Latias has long been pushed aside for her stronger brother, Latios. NO LONGER! Choice Specs Latias is so strong despite having lower Special Attack than Latios. I'm using her for a number of reasons. First, she lures in Blissey and Ferro better due to Latios commonly carrying Trick / HP Fire. Next, her bulk tanks hits from common attackers, most important being that she can take 1 Shadow Ball from Gengar and KO back. The moveset is as expected. DM / Surf for coverage and Trick to cripple most of Latias' switch-ins. The 3rd moveslot I just can't decide. I usually use GK since it can 2HKO most TTar after SR, but Psyshock beats Tentacruel, Keldeo, Breloom, and other things I normally switch-in on. It's also just a move I can spam without lowering SpA. Recover is because it's nice to last long. I'm not considering anything over this ATM, except I might retest Hydreigon so there isn't a Pursuit weakness. -------- Terrakion @ Choice Band *** Fire Fighter Trait: Justified EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) / Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk) - Close Combat - Stone Edge - X-Scissor - Sleep Talk CB Terrakion is just here to punch holes into everything. It's the power behind my team and deals with a ton of threats. This has no safe switch-ins, it can switch in on most of Latias' switch-ins to grab a kill. Not too much else to it. Standard STAB + X-Scissor, along with Sleep Talk. Sleep Talk is so good now that sleep is so common in Loom and Amoonguss (though it's risky to switch in on those). Standard EV spread is standard. I've been testing both natures, and I can't decide which I like more. I would be Adamant most of the time, but this team really needs the speed. Recently, I've been wanting to try Heracross in this spot as a status absorber. It will also help with Slowbro, so I may get to it. -------- Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf *** Fire Engine Trait: Thick Fat EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Ice Shard - Icicle Crash - Icicle Spear - Earthquake As everyone knows, Mamoswine is THE antimeta Poke for now. It revenges all the genies and dragons that plague the meta. Deviating from the norm, I went with the scarf set. It's really unexpected and it pretty much always grabs a kill. After Terrakion has done his job, this guy can usually just come in and clean up. 3 Ice moves may seem pointless, but each has a use. Ice Shard, even with a scarf, is necessary to revenge DD Dragonite / Mence / Haxorus. Icicle Spear is for Sub Gengar and Sash Zam (a huge fag). EQ is standard. I don't really need Superpower / Stone Edge since Mamoswine gets amazing coverage with just his STABs. Not considering anything over this at the moment. -------- Jellicent @ Leftovers *** The Hose Trait: Water Absorb EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spd Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Taunt - Toxic - Recover - Surf That concludes the more offensive half of the team. This was the hardest change to make on my team. Previously, I had Mew here, and it was amazing. Sadly, the Volcarona weak was too big, and when I revamped the team I needed a counter for all Keldeo. Even then, Volc got Giga Drain :[. Toxic is just for those 2. I still break stall still (although Ferro is more annoying now), as I have Taunt. Recover is standard fare, and Surf > Scald so it doesn't conflict with Toxic. The speed outspeeds Skarmory that don't run a shit ton of speed. -------- Skarmory @ Leftovers *** Arsonist Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Spd Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Stealth Rock - Brave Bird - Whirlwind - Roost Skarmory is back to wall physical threats to hell and back. This thing has saved me so many times I won't get rid of it. Skarm beats the dragons that would otherwise ravage my team, such as Mence and Nite. I'm getting tired of typing so the descriptions may be a bit smaller now. The moveset is standard Skarm with Stealth Rock over Spikes since nothing else has it. I switched from my old EV's to standard SpD Skarm with an Impish nature because it had better overall bulk than the one before. I'm not really considering anything over this at the moment because it's, as said before, too helpful. -------- Amoonguss @ Leftovers *** WEE OOH! Trait: Regenerator EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 96 SDef / 8 Spd Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Spore - Giga Drain - Hidden Power [Fire] / Sludge Bomb - Stun Spore Finally, Amoonguss. Amoonguss is here to beat most Keldeo that Jelly can't beat (Sub is beat by Latias), SD TechniLoom (post-Spore), etc. It's my second check to Thundurus-T and is my switch-in the Rotom-W when I don't expect the trick. I forgot what the EV spread does since I made it a while ago, but I think it has something to do with Breloom's Bullet Seed. The moveset is standard; Spore is standard, Giga Drain too. HP Fire beats common switch-ins in Scizor and Ferro. Sludge Bomb is something I'm considering but the main turn-off is that is has a chance to inflict poison, so it conflicts with his other moves. One thing I'm considering here is LO RS Starmie without Recover. It adds more offensive power to the team and checks most stall mons. -------- Threats -------- Volcarona is pretty much an auto lose. It sets up on pretty much everything and KO's / avoids the Toxic from Jellicent. The only sets that give me trouble are the Giga Drain (though I still get the Toxic off), Substitute, and Chesto Rest. Tornadus-T and Sash Alakazam are also pretty annoying. Spikes are pretty annoying, but I usually don't let them get up since Terrakion beats the common users. Another, less common thing, are fast stall breakers, being Aerodactyl and Crobat. Thanks to Motagua, I've found a weakness to SubDD Gyarados. Last edited by Tangelo; Aug 17th, 2012 at 9:16:47 PM. |
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Jul 13th, 2012, 6:12:11 PM
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#2 |
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"All POKéMON have strengths and weaknesses."...... Sableye: "LOL"
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 82
I'm @Closet on Pokemon Showdown! UU = best tier btw
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Wow. Amazing Team. I'm not sure what to really suggest, but I think I'll just say: Heracross > Terrakion, I don't think you should do that. Because, there is a tutor in BW2, which allows Terrakion to learn SR. You can set SR up with Terrakion, (over Sleep Talk, which seems reasonable to me) and might be able to help a tad with your Volcarona problem. I'm not gonna say anymore, because if I did, I'd ruin your team D:.
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Jul 13th, 2012, 6:18:04 PM
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#3 | |
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 361
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Who wants to be locked into Stealth Rocks? This team nice, but I am Seeing a Volcarona weakness, this can be alleviated by just running Choice Scarf on Terrakion. You can then change Mamo to LO or Sash and give it Stealth Rock and then give Skarmory spikes as your team forces lots of switches
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Jul 13th, 2012, 7:00:57 PM
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#4 |
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 127
Germany
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Great team, horrible name.
Anyway, I would recommend toxic on terrakion over sleep talk. It help vs things like slowbro and jellicent and with amoonguss you can stall them out easily. Also I think Latios would still be better if you want to use specs even despite its bulk. If you wanna stick with Latias I'd recommend this set:  Latias @ Life Orb | Levitate Modest | 152 HP / 176 SAtk / 180 Spd ~ Draco Meteor ~ Surf ~ Psyshock ~ Recover |
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Jul 13th, 2012, 7:34:53 PM
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#5 | |||
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 90
bask in my light
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Thanks for the rates, guys!
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Terrakion can already beat those 2 when I'm Adamant, but when I'm Jolly Toxic is probably better. I'll try it. When I first started using Latias that was the set I used. In the end, I found Trick to be a big advantage Specs Latias had > LO. Another problem is that if I don't run max Speed my team is relatively slow, with Mamo being the only thing with speed (Adamant Terrakion is pretty slow). Again, thanks for the rates. |
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Jul 13th, 2012, 10:45:08 PM
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#6 |
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 208
Where the hax demons live
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Great team but i honestly can't see why you haven't switched to Choice Scarf Heracross... Guts boost on the sleep, faster and stab on Megahorn and Close Combat, resists mach punch and bullet seed. anyway i used him on my DW OU team and found him very effective so you should definitely use him over terrakion. I you do switch to heracross then isuggest slapping a life orb on mamoswine and putting stealth rock over icicle spear.
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VM me for an OU or Ubers rate! Check out my team(s): A Day at the Beach(Ubers) The time has come to battle the Elite 4! Challenge here |
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Jul 14th, 2012, 1:26:16 AM
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#7 |
  
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tangy is a boss he dont need none of yo rates
imo though go sleep talk heracross > terrakion and troll all the technilooms |
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Jul 14th, 2012, 2:06:17 AM
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#8 |
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 74
Currently in the land of ragequit
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I would probably put Life Orb on terra instead of CB, because if you are going to run a choice Terrakion it should be scarfed.
That opens up the option to put stealth rocks on it and then use spikes on skarmory You could also probably replace Jelicent with tentacruel if you felt so inclined. |
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Jul 14th, 2012, 8:47:06 AM
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#9 |
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,100
Spain
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Hey,
This team looks nice but as you have mentioned it has a huge Volcarona weakness. Upon looking at your team, the best way too fix it would be replacing Jellicent (the least important member of your team) with Offensive Dragon Dance Dragonite. Dragonite can act as a Volcarona counter (it beats any set along Terrakion) and it can still break stall with its great offensive presence. Dragonite can also take attacks from a lot of threats (includibg Keldeo while checking Alakazam thanks to EextremeSpeed (on that note, you could use Quick Attack over Sleep Talk on Terrakion) which means you won't miss Jellicent. A set consisting of Dragon Dance / Outrage / ExtremeSpeed/ Fire Punch @ Lum Berry should be fine. However, Dragonite performance is hugely hindered by Stealth Rock, as you lack a spinner which means it wouldn't be able to set up as easily. Also, since your team seems pretty reliant on switching a lot, entry hazards in general are very dangerous. For this reason, you should probably try Starmie over Latias. Starmie can check some pokemon that Latias could (like Terrakion) but it can support your team via Rapid Spin. Here's the set: Starmie@Life Orb | Natural Cure Timid Nature | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Surf / Psyshock / Recover / Rapid Spin Finally, to deal with Tornadus and Alakazam better you could use the Specially Defensive Skarmory spread on the onsite analysis.
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Jul 14th, 2012, 11:32:32 AM
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#10 | ||||
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 90
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Thanks for the rates! |
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Jul 14th, 2012, 1:27:22 PM
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#11 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,100
Spain
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Terrakion can already break through Skarmory with its current spread (LO/CB Jolly terrakion deals >60% with Close Combat to your current skarmory) so switching to the SpD spread isn't going to "make you weaker to terrakion"
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Jul 14th, 2012, 1:47:24 PM
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 90
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What I mean is that I won't have any switch-in to CB Stone Edge (Terrakion doesn't really want to switch in on opposing Terrakion).
-------- 252Atk Choice Band Terrakion (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 252HP/0Def Sturdy Skarmory (Neutral): 54% - 64% (183 - 216 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 252Atk Choice Band Terrakion (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 196HP/136Def Sturdy Skarmory (+Def): 46% - 55% (150 - 177 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 16% chance to 2HKO. -------- Although, a set of 252 HP / 252 SpD @ Impish seems to be better, so I'll try that. Edit: Trying a spread of 252 HP / 216 SpD / 40 Spe with an Impish nature to outspeed standard Mixed Abomasnow. |
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Jul 14th, 2012, 3:31:22 PM
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#13 |
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El Ciclón Azul
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 190
Honduras
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Hey Tangelo imo any team that does not use a defensive pokemon like Gliscor is weak to Terrakion and relies on prediction to beat him. However if your concern is a huge problem, you might want to replace Jellicent with Slowbro. Slowbro has higher defenses and he is a perfect counter to Terrakion because he is never 2HKO´d by any of his moves, plus it has Regenerator to regain 33.33% of its HP every time it switches out. To add more, the infamous "Amoon-bro" combination is able to wall 2/3 of the metagame. About Slowbro´s last move, I would use HP Electric as this team has already a huge weakness to SubDD Gyarados who can easily set-up on this team as you have no reliable way to deal with it.
If you decide to run with CrackinSkulls & Lavos Spawn´s suggestion of replacing Terrakion with CB Heracross, it will make you even more weak to Volcarona and Sun teams in general. However, that can be solved if you use a Sp. Defensive Heatran who is able to wall any Volcarona, set up Stealth Rock, phaze the oponent and counter Sun teams in general. Heatran also gives you one of the most solid F/W/G cores in history and has an excellent synergy with Heracross. As a minor suggestion, you could try running on Amoonguss an EV spread of 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Sp.Def as you have a x4 resistance to Bullet Seed and even a +6 Breloom can´t get through Amoonguss anyways. You might want to try Clear Smog over Stun Spore to eliminate any of Virizion´s, Keldeo´s or Breloom´s boosts and troll them over all day long. This change also helps mostly against Keldeo as Amoonguss might not enjoy taking boosted Hydro Pumps repeadetly. Below are the sets and good luck. Hope this rate helps :)
Slowbro
Sp.Defensive Heatran
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Jul 14th, 2012, 3:49:34 PM
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#14 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 90
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Quote:
To address your first point, it's not that I don't have a safe switch-in to Terrakion or something like that, just that every time it Stone Edge's I use a Poke (had a switched to SpD Skarm). To deal with Sub DD Gyara I usually go into Amoonguss to bait out a Bounce and switch to Skarm. Worst case I can tank a Waterfall and phaze it out. Slowbro will make that weakness even larger. As for Heracross, I still can't decide which I like more. Terrakion has the power but Heracross has the utility. I'll probably stick with Terrakion just because the Volcarona issue is annoying. On another note, I don't have trouble with every Volc set that everyone is making it seem like. The only set that I auto lose on is ChestoRest / SubQD, and even then, I can bring in Terrakion to tank and KO. Giga Drain Volc gets Toxic'd and then I can predict around it. I really dislike Heatran currently because Rain is common. And for Amoonguss, the EV's avoid the 2HKO from +2 LO Adamant 4 hit Bullet Seed and hit back with Spore / Stun Spore / HP Fire. Clear Smog is something I used to have, but I found that after something was put asleep, people would switch in their Tornadus-T's which proceeded to get paralyzed. |
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Jul 14th, 2012, 4:04:04 PM
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#15 |
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El Ciclón Azul
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 190
Honduras
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@Tangelo: Physically Defensive Skarmory gets cleanly 2HKO´d by +1 Waterfall in Rain after SR meaning that you don´t have a reliable way to deal with him. Tanking a hit sounds natural, however next time Gyarados come, you will become more vulnerable to him as none of your pokemons cant break his Sub with the exception of Mamoswine or Latias who will be eating a boosted attack. Against Sp.Defensive Skarmory it gets worse as it will be doing ~70% minimum, in fact, even without a DD boost, Waterfall 2HKOs anyways in Rain after SR (46.71% - 55.09%). That was the reason why I suggested HP Electric on Slowbro if you read my rate to deal with SubDD Gyarados.
About Heatran, I only suggested him in the case you decided to run with Heracross. On Breloom, he cant get through Amoonguss so I do not really see how an 8-streak Bullet Seed, ~30% chance to happen, can get through him: 252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252 HP/40 Def Amoonguss: 12,5% - 14,81% (11-15 hits to KO). That calculation was made with the 40 Def EVs. HP Fire or Clear Smog 2HKOs him anyways, so I don´t think Breloom is as bad as you see him. Last edited by Motagua; Jul 14th, 2012 at 4:48:06 PM. |
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Jul 14th, 2012, 4:40:23 PM
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 90
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252Atk Life Orb +2 Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252HP/156Def Leftovers Amoonguss (Neutral): 43% - 50% (188 - 220 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252Atk Life Orb +2 Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252HP/40Def Leftovers Amoonguss (Neutral): 50% - 59% (216 - 256 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. -------- 252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Keldeo (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 252HP/96SpDef Leftovers Amoonguss (+SpDef): 42% - 50% (185 - 218 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 252SpAtk +2 Keldeo (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 252HP/96SpDef Leftovers Amoonguss (+SpDef): 43% - 51% (190 - 224 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. -------- Although Breloom isn't really an issue, I prefer having insurance vs it. The EV's also still handle Keldeo fine I'm really trying to avoid switching to Slowbro since it would make my weakness to Volcarona even bigger, but I could do that and switch Latias with Sub DD Dragonite. |
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Jul 14th, 2012, 4:47:10 PM
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#17 |
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El Ciclón Azul
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 190
Honduras
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@Tangelo: What kind of calculator are you using? And why does it says (Neutral)? I use that standard EV spread and I faced up LO Brelooms unable to get through Amoonguss. I can assure you, on my above calculations, made with a reliable & updated damage calculator, that +2 Breloom is not even close to get a 2HKO even if he gets a 5-streak hit twice. Neverless if you trust yours more, no problem at all bro.
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Jul 14th, 2012, 5:09:13 PM
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#18 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 90
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http://kalashnikov.pokecenter.ru/damage/
That's the calculator I'm using. Also, on your calculation: Quote:
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Jul 14th, 2012, 8:21:35 PM
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#19 |
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El Ciclón Azul
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 190
Honduras
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Yeah, you´re right :p, completely overlooked adding up the damage. My apologies if I bothered you.
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Jul 15th, 2012, 2:00:18 PM
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#20 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 90
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After testing Hera and Terrakion I've found that Terrakion beating the variants of Volcarona not covered by Jellicent and the rest of the team. Another thing I need to test is Hera + Toxic / Rapid Spin / Surf / Knock Off or TSpikes or HP Electric Liquid Ooze Tentacruel as it beats all varients of Volcarona bar HP Ground and checks SubDD Gyarados. Skarmory's EVs are going to be changed to 252 HP / 216 SpD / 40 Spe @ Impish. -EDIT- Tentacruel didn't work too well so I'm going to try Suicune, Milotic, and Vaporeon next. Last edited by Tangelo; Jul 15th, 2012 at 3:14:17 PM. |
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Jul 15th, 2012, 2:34:45 PM
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#21 |
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 219
England
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Just a suggestion. I'm not very familiar with BW2 yet. But maybe swap the items of Terrakion and Mamo, to make Terra your revenge killer (outspeeds +1 Volc) and Mamoswine your powerhouse. Also try Stone Edge and/or SuperPower on Mamo. Rocks are an option with Life Orb, allowing for Spikes on Skarm.
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Jul 15th, 2012, 3:20:11 PM
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#22 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 90
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If I did that Skarm would be a huge dick and set up Spikes on Mamo and Terrakion while I would have no way to get rid of it (bar Surf spamming with Latias, but that's set up for a lot of things). I may go Stone Edge over Icicle Spear, actually.
Thanks for the rate! |
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