Gliscor (Ready for Approval)

[dragonuser]

[Overview]

<p>Gliscor has been a threat to the metagame since way back in Gen 4. Although this generation with the arrival of Excadrill, the usefulness of Gliscor has increased incredibly. Gliscor is one of the few Pokemon in the entire metagame that can boast the ability to hard wall Excadrill, with his base 125 Defense and access to Poison Heal. With Poison Heal, Gliscor gains one eighth of its health back at the end of every turn, which when paired with his natural bulk allows him to check much of the physical spectrum in the metagame. However due to this immense bulk people often overlook Gliscor's offensive capabilities when paired with his base 95 Attack.</p>

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Fang / Facade
move 4: Protect
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set capitalizes on both Gliscor's natural bulk and his Base 95 Attack in an attempt to sweep. Earthquake is an extremely valuable STAB, and with a Swords Dance boost reaches lethal levels of power. For example, with a Swords Dance boost and Stealth Rock damage, a Earthquake will OHKO Jellicent. Ice Fang is mentioned due to the prevalence of Ground-Type immune pokemon in the metagame. Ice Fang is able to effectively hit Levitators and Flying-Types that would otherwise give Gliscor problems. Some examples being Latias, opposing Gliscor's, Thundurus, and many more. Facade can be used in place of Ice Fang, giving Gliscor a stronger option versus bulky Water-Types. Protect has its utility in letting Gliscor scout the opponent's moves early game, as well as restoring extra health with Poison Heal.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This EV spread simply maximizes Gliscor's bulk, while meeting the closest speed benchmark, allowing Gliscor to out speed minimal Speed investment Tentacruel and Jirachi. Skarmory and Bronzong are able to confidently wall this set, and set up their own hazards freely. Other counters for this set include Regice, defensive Abomasnow and bulky Water-Types. Due to this, Chandelure stands out as a premier partner for this set, being able to trap and beat most of Gliscors counter fairly easily. Choice Banded Terrakion is also a viable partner, as it can weaken Gliscor's counters paving the road for a future sweep.</p>

<p>Poison Heal benefits Gliscor greatly, letting it have effective recovery in a sense. Due to this Poison Heal should be the only ability considered when using this set. An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spd could be used, letting Gliscor outspeed Adamant Dragonite. Gliscor also has the option to run Taunt in this set, to prevent Skarmory from phasing him out. Taunt also has its uses in stopping hazards from being set as well as stat boosting attempts.</p>

[SET]
name: SubToxic
move 1: Toxic
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Protect / Ice Fang
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spd

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is the infamous SubToxic spread that when used right can stall much of the metagame. This set is effective at stalling because of Gliscor's ability, Poison Heal. Poison Heal allows Gliscor to gain one eighth of its health back at the end of every turn when Gliscor is poisoned. Gliscor, can not only stall but can also be an effective stallbreaker. With access to Status immunity, reliable recovery, and Ground-Type STAB, Gliscor is a very potent threat to many stall teams. Even with all of these boons, Gliscor's true niche is in his Physical Defense. With Gliscor's base 125 Defense and Poison Heal, Gliscor becomes a premier Physical wall in the Dream World OU metagame. Earthquake is Gliscor's strongest STAB, being able to hit opponents like Tyranitar and Excadrill super effectively. Ice Fang allows Gliscor to hit Flying- and Dragon-Type Pokemon super effectively. Ice Fang also has use in breaking Excadrill's balloon, allowing Gliscor to hit Excadrill super effectively. However if one is not worried about Air Balloon Excadrill being able to setup on this set, Protect can be used in place of Ice Fang.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>While this Gliscor is able to stall much of the metagame, it does have it's weaknesses. Perhaps this set's biggest weakness is opposing Steel-Type pokemon that are immune to or take neutral damage from Earthquake. For example, Skarmory, Bronzong, Forretress, and Ferrothorn are all able to setup hazards while fearing little to no repercussions from Gliscor. Due to this, Chandelure would make an excellent teammate. Chandelure with it's ability Shadow Tag, is able to trap and KO each of these pokemon with it's Fire-Type STAB. However, if Gliscor is used on a Rain team, a Magnezone is also viable as it is able to trap and KO Skarmory. Rotom-W also makes a good partner due to its ability to Burn or KO these pokemon with its Electric-Type STAB. Opposing Gliscor hard wall this set if you opt for using Protect over Ice Fang. Therefore, running a Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Politoed, or Manaphy of your own is also an option.</p>

<p>The EV spread simply attempts to maximize Gliscor's bulk, while being able to out speed the 246 Speed benchmark. However, if your team calls for a more Specially Defensive set, a set aimed at increasing Gliscor's Special Defense could be used. Do note that it will not be as effective at stalling Specially Defensive hits due to its lower base Special Defense. Alternatively a faster spread of 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spd could be used. This set is able to out speed and damage Adamant Dragonite. Due to this sets reliance on Poison Heal for recovery, it is not recommended to change Toxic Orb as an item, as it is vital to quickly activating Gliscor's ability.</p>

[SET]
name: Acrobat
move 1: Acrobatics
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Swords Dance
move 4: Substitute
item: Flight Gem
ability: Sand Veil
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Due to Gliscor's fantastic ability Poison Heal, Gliscor's other ability Sand Veil is often forgotten. Sand Veil causes every opposing move to drop 20% accuracy when the weather is Sandstream. Due to this ability, Gliscor is able to effectively setup on reduced accuracy moves. The main lure of this set however, is Acrobatics and Flight Gem. On your first Acrobatics, the Flight Gem will be used effectively raising your attacks power. However Acrobatics base power is doubled when the Pokemon's held item is used, meaning that each following Acrobatics will have a Base Power of 110. When paired with 100% accuracy, STAB, and a possible Swords Dance boost, the power of this set truly shines. Earthquake, when paired with Acrobatics provides excellent coverage, giving Gliscor the tools necessary for achieving a sweep.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This set greatly benefits from Sand Veil, making Tyranitar or Hippowdon excellent partners. Both are able to lay Stealth Rock which greatly helps Gliscor's attempt to sweep. Due to this set's coverage and power it has few dedicated counters. The two most prominent being Skarmory and Bronzong. Due to this, both Chandelure and Magnezone would make excellent partners as they are able to trap both of these pokemon and KO with their respective super effective attack. One note about Chandelure is that it can also trap opposing weather starters, essentially ending the weather war and letting Sandstream dominate the battle. Gliscor greatly appreciates this as it can now fully abuse Sand Veil. Other partners include Rotom-W with its ability to burn Bronzong and threaten the KO on Skarmory. Rotom-W is able to switch into a various onslaught of Water-Type attacks and provide momentum in an attempt to win the weather war. Amoongus also makes a great partner, as it is able to take rain boosted Hydro Pumps as well as spreading Status around the opponents team. Gliscor greatly appreciates Status support as a burned pokemon will have more trouble breaking his Substitute, while a Paralyzed pokemon will have less opportunities to attack, letting Gliscor set up more boosts.</p>

<p>This set has the option to run Poison Heal with a Toxic Orb Fling set, but that set is not as efficient and is not recommended as Flying Gem Acrobatics has more initial power and Sand Veil is very useful in this Sandstream dominated metagame. Gliscor is able to run a Jolly Nature to increase his speed, but often the extra attacking power is favored.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>A Fling Acrobatics set was mentioned earlier, boasting both recovery and access to a Base 110 Power Acrobatics. Swords Dance Gliscor is also able to use Fire Fang in an attempt to hit Skarmory and Ferrothorn hard. A set similar to the fourth generation Gliscor could be used, using Taunt/Stealth Rock/Earthquake/Roost. However this set would need to use Sand Veil and Leftovers, as Poison Heal is illegal with both Stealth Rock and Roost.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Skarmory, Bronzong, and Earthquake immune Steel-Type pokemon are Gliscors best counters. These pokemon are able to set up on Gliscor easily, while Gliscor struggles to do any damage to them. Similarly Ferrothorn and Forretress are able to setup hazards on most Gliscor sets. The Swords Dance Gliscor set also has trouble breaking through bulky waters like Slowbro, Politoed, and Gyarados. Not only are these pokemon able to take Gliscor's attacks, but they are able to threaten back with either STAB Water-Type attacks or Ice Beam. Manaphy in the rain is also able to tank Earthquakes and heal itself of ailments due to Hydration, making it a premier counter to Gliscor. Fast Special Attackers like Thundurus, Keldeo, and Genesect are able to outpace and cleanly KO Gliscor. SubDisable Gengar gets a special mention for being able to beat almost every Gliscor set if played correctly.</p>

[JellyOs]

If it's called SubToxic why is Toxic slashed with Ice Fang?

[dragonuser]

This is ready for approval/rejection :]

[Princess Bri]

sd set listed first, sub set wants ice fang slashed before protect because of garchomp and balloon excadrill

[dragonuser]

Added Suggestions and thanks :]

[Danilo]

I don't think SD should be listed first but that's a matter of large debate. The EVs you have at the moment are really inefficient. Unlike OU, Rotom-W and Lucario aren't common so you really don't need to be outspeeding them. I suggest moving more Speed EVs into Defense and finding a good Speed benchmark. The Swords Dance set should have Taunt slashed with Protect. Protect should of course be the primary slash. You should AC Facade on the third set and if not, OO it. Good stuff :)

[dragonuser]

Originally Posted by Fat Sir

I don't think SD should be listed first but that's a matter of large debate. The EVs you have at the moment are really inefficient. Unlike OU, Rotom-W and Lucario aren't common so you really don't need to be outspeeding them. I suggest moving more Speed EVs into Defense and finding a good Speed benchmark. The Swords Dance set should have Taunt slashed with Protect. Protect should of course be the primary slash. You should AC Facade on the third set and if not, OO it. Good stuff :)

IMO some important pokemon to outrun include Tentacruel(16 speed EVs) and Neutral(32 speed EVs) Jirachi. Both of these pokemon sit around the low 240's speed stat wise, letting this Gliscor EV spread outspeed them. However I am open to the option of a more defensive EV spread on the Sub Toxic Gliscor, but I feel like the SD set at least needs to be able to outspeed Tentacruel and should not drop too much speed.

[JellyOs]

SubToxic needs more Speed EVs if anything. Your job as SubToxic is to Toxic the opponent, Protect, Sub and repeat. Outspeeding crucial threats is a major part in that role which is why I think the spread should be 252 HP / 32 Atk / 8 Def / 216 Spe Impish.
This lets you outspeed neutral 90's and nab the 2HKO on 252 HP Rachi after Leftovers. You're still bulky, but you outspeed tons more and that really matters for SubToxic.

[dragonuser]

Originally Posted by Fat JellyOs

SubToxic needs more Speed EVs if anything. Your job as SubToxic is to Toxic the opponent, Protect, Sub and repeat. Outspeeding crucial threats is a major part in that role which is why I think the spread should be 252 HP / 32 Atk / 8 Def / 216 Spe Impish.
This lets you outspeed neutral 90's and nab the 2HKO on 252 HP Rachi after Leftovers. You're still bulky, but you outspeed tons more and that really matters for SubToxic.

With Lucario being rare in DW OU, I dont see the point in running 280 speed, and I have trouble finding another notable threat around that benchmark. If there was another threat you were setting the benchmark at, then please let me know :]. In AC I do mention a faster spread, capable of outspeeding Adamant Dragonite, but a faster variant could be mentioned instead. But even with a faster spread, Gliscor would really only outspeed Ninetales/Toxicroak/Offensive Max Speed Tran. Offensive Tran is the only one that I would consider speed creep worthy IMO but it doesnt seem worth it(will let approval team decide). Although those 32 Atk EV's do look very valuable, and I do plan on incluiding those in the main EV spread/AC Spread. Thanks :]

[JellyOs]

Rotom-A and Excadrill are both right around there (two things you want to outspeed) so I just figured 90 is good to round to, but because both run max, I go back on my word and say 252 HP / 32 Atk / 24 Def / 200 Spe Jolly so you can beat those two.If you don't feel like it's main set, just an AC mention would do.

[dragonuser]

Originally Posted by Fat JellyOs

Rotom-A and Excadrill are both right around there (two things you want to outspeed) so I just figured 90 is good to round to, but because both run max, I go back on my word and say 252 HP / 32 Atk / 24 Def / 200 Spe Jolly so you can beat those two.If you don't feel like it's main set, just an AC mention would do.

I am still a little bit sceptical as you lose a massive amount of bulk, just to outspeed Excadrill(who cant really do much to u, while u can just tank a hit and Earthquake back) and Rotom-A which is extremely rare(had a .066% usage in April).

Ill do a little testing first.

[NixHex]

Rotom-A (86 Spe):


Rotom (91 Spe):


Looking over this right now, just wanted to point out the above ;)

[JellyOs]

@Nix I meant its around 90, I just rounded to hit the benchmark

[dragonuser]

I am not really convinced that Gliscor needs to run: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 24 Def / 200 Spe Jolly

but i guess i will leave that up to approval team to decide :)

[NatGeo]

Facade definitely deserves a mention on the SD set, if not the slash after Ice Fang. It hits a lot of things for neutral coverage which Ice Fang + Earthquake misses out on (read: Water-types coming in as you boost), and its a lot more powerful versus some opponents. Plus it's more accurate :P

[dragonuser]

Added Facade as a slash :] thanks

[jonathanrp]

just a little nitpick, you have "stealth rocks" in the description of the SD set, it's just Stealth Rock.

[Jukain]

I've seen (more than a few times) Gliscor running Sub/Toxic/Protect/Ice Fang. No idea why, just throwing it out there. But.... EQ is better in most circumstances.... still throwing it out there.
I'm also for SubToxic>Acrobat>Swords Dance. SubToxic is very effective versus many kinds of teams, and Toxic ruins a lot of Pokemon. The Acrobat set hits really hard with the initial Acrobatics, and still hits hard after the initial. However, it seems the Swords Dance is just kind of just... there. Nothing is really special about it. It just kind of exists. I never found it really did much, while SubToxic is super-annoying and Acrobat hits hard.
On the SubToxic set, I'm going to suggest AC'ing JellyOs's spread and keeping the main spread the same.

[Tobes]

Overview

• Not nearly enough mention of various difficulties faced in Dream World, including but not limited to Shadow Tag Choice Scard Chandelure (i.e. Gliscor's worst nightmare if it gets in safely), Keldeo, Genesect, Thundurus, etc., etc.

Swords Dance Gliscor

• There should be a space between [SET COMMENTS] and the following paragraph, [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] and the following paragraph, etc.
• Move order goes by order of importance; for the Swords Dance set it should be move 1: Swords Dance | move 2: Earthquake | move 3: Ice Fang / Facade | move 4: Protect
• Don't mention Regice. Nobody uses it.
• ...No mention of Tyranitar? Fix this.
• You need more explanation of teammates and how they benefit Gliscor, and how Gliscor benefits them.
• Aerial Ace in AC for an OHKO on Breloom.
• Partners that can take Ice-type attacks.

SubToxic Gliscor

• Order should be move 1: Toxic | move 2: Substitute | move 3: Earthquake | move 4: Protect / Ice Fang
• Toxic Spikes support
• Tyranitar support
• Partners that can take Ice-type attacks.
• Specially Defensive is not worth an AC mention. Move it to Other Options
• Mention that Skarmory commonly carries Shed Shell, making the efforts of Chandelure and Magnezone useless.

Acrobat Gliscor

• Why are you leading the discussion with Sand Veil when the whole point of this set is Acrobatics?
• Moveset order should be move 1: Acrobatics | move 2: Earthquake | move 3: Swords Dance | move 4: Substitute

Other Options

• This has way too little content.

Checks and Counters

• Rotom-W

I'm not going to sugarcoat it, I am not at all happy with the quality here. Alongside content problems, the grammar and prose are poor. This is not approved yet. I'll give you some time to work on improving this on your own after implementing all this, but I want to see some serious improvement.

[dragonuser]

thanks for the input, and have started implementing changes. But with exams my time is really limited for next two weeks so I guess most of the work will b done after the 14th(if thats fine with u). I will try to do work in my limited free time though

[ace combat]

I would have though that you knew this because you had it this way in the SD set, but Smogon uses Spe when describing the amount of speed EV's on a Pokemon. On the Acrobatics and the Substitute set you used Spd instead. On another note, at the very least Taunt needs to be a AC mention in the Sub Toxic set so Pokemon like Forretress and Ferrothorn cannot do anything. It can be used to replace toxic if you have toxic spikes support, which you should, or Protect/Ice Fang. It may end up as a Sash if the moderators say that it should.

[Jukain]

Maybe Gliscor can run a fully defensive set now:
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Protect / Toxic

Roost allows Gliscor to heal itself more efficiently and not be so open to things like flinching from Excadrill. Stealth Rock is kind of just... Stealth Rock. Earthquake is reliable STAB. Protect is great to recover health, but Toxic is also useful for stalling.

Also, SD could run Roost in the last slot. At the same time as it likes scouting with Protect, it also likes healing and setting up more easily.

[V0x]

There are some set varitations definitely worth investigating. The problem with the above is with only EQ (ie no Taunt or SD), it's pretty easy to set up on. However, Roost could definitely work on the SD set in the last slot. Maybe the above set could work with Taunt over Protect/Toxic though.

Also, what about a BP set? Sub, Rock Polish, Stealth Rock, and Roost with either Sand Veil or Poison Heal would be able to pass +2 Speed to good effect.

Finally, on SubToxic, do we want Roost? At first it seems like yes. However, what move would you give up? Not EQ, and maybe not protect either because it has good stalling and scouting capability, not the mention priority protection. It almost seems like there should be no changes, thoughts?

[JellyOs]

Offensive: I'd much rather have Protect than Roost for scouting purposes. It's definitely AC though, but I'd prefer Protect to scout for a stray Ice Beam or HP Ice.

BP: Usually completely outclassed as a BP'er, but Roost fits well on that set so it can have more opportunities to pass off.

SD: Pretty much up to the user, Protect for more versatility and scouting but Roost for recovery faster. I'd slash Protect first.

SubRoost: Lord no, every move is needed on that set.