Latias

[Jibaku*]

I had forgotten about Roar on Latias. Given how much damage entry hazards can do, abusing the heck out of Roar sounds very dangerous indeed (along with winning CM wars etc). Just ensure that you have some way of beating up last Pokemon CM Arceus / Kyogre, though.

Re: Max Speed on Latias. I wouldn't put down this option entirely. One thing that's nice is that it outruns HP Fire enemy Lati@s, so you can use something like Latias + Ferrothorn to check them.

[mtr]

Also, Latias is the only Wish user in Ubers besides Blissey and Jirachi.


Speaking of which, nobody uses Jirachi anymore for whatever reason, even though it's still perfectly decent in Ubers.

[Anikrahman1995]

Originally Posted by Fat mtr

Also, Latias is the only Wish user in Ubers besides Blissey and Jirachi.


Speaking of which, nobody uses Jirachi anymore for whatever reason, even though it's still perfectly decent in Ubers.

I use Jirachi in ubers. The team I used that featured Jirachi got to no 11 on the PO server. It's the best counter to mewtwo(if it lacks thunder; parahax). Latias shouldnt really be using wish this generation because of the new wish mechanics.

[Mr.lol]

Also, Latias is the only Wish user in Ubers besides Blissey and Jirachi.


Speaking of which, nobody uses Jirachi anymore for whatever reason, even though it's still perfectly decent in Ubers.

Wish support was a VERY decent set last gen actually, in fact it probably would've still worked if not for the wish nerf / boost? (IDK LATIAS CAN"T USE IT BUT THE BLOBS ABUSE THE FUDGE OUT OF IT).

I guess it COULD TRY SOMETHING, although it does like Anikrahman said (kind of) risk being outclassed by the likes of Jirachi or even Chansey.

It is unique though, in the sense it can pass in the face of all forms of Kyogre, and as shrang said, doesn't really uh give unpleasant things about Scarf Draco Meteors (which means basically all special attacks barring Psyshock and Psystrike). Has anyone tried a set with wish to success? I do recall there being a version of the set existing last gen.

Re: Max Speed on Latias. I wouldn't put down this option entirely. One thing that's nice is that it outruns HP Fire enemy Lati@s, so you can use something like Latias + Ferrothorn to check them.

Ferrothorn sounds like a nice partner... sets up rocks and spikes. I do see a flaw in your logic though, thanks to soul dew, I believe Latios can stomach an uninvested Dragon Pulse (yeah that sucks, it actually does a tiny (64.24% - 76.16%)) and can retaliate back with a Draco Meteor ( (100.55% - 118.68%)).

Err Lati twin match-ups aren't fun HOWEVER YOU ARE RIGHT TO AN EXTENT :P. If Latias predicts the switch it can either CM up or Dragon Pulse (it 2HKOes and after CM it OHKOes), but yet this causes more complications... and what Latios wants to switch into a Latias?

some strange theorymoning that might work

---

Also I believe I have may have found the way to win Ferro vs Latias matches 100% of the time! With the use of Reflect-Type Latias can copy Ferrothorn's wonderful typing, and at the price of losing STAB, it will gain a fabulous defensive typing, while also saying mean things to Ferrothorn! This also works with Dialga should Latias have acquired a Calm Mind when it switches in (but it keeps its dragon STAB though :P) (also I thank Great Sage for giving the idea of trolling Dialga). This also works against Scizor, any ideas on this peculiar type of Latias?

Also to all, I apologize for my lack of ability in keeping the discussion in this thread going.

[TonyFlygon]

Latias @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 204 SAtk / 192 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Grass Knot / Thunder
- Roar / Refresh / Toxic

This is a support Latias set I have been running and really enjoying. The EVs come from the DPP support set and ensure that Latias outspeeds Garchomp when it's not Choice Scarfed, survives two Water Spouts from Choice Specs Kyogre and is able to 2HKO support Groudon with Dragon Pulse. Adding more Speed EVs to ensure outspeeding Terrakion is definitely an option, but in my opinion not worth it on a support set, seeing as Terrakion is less problematic for it as for a Calm Mind set for example. Hidden Power [Fire] is amazing for nailing Forretress and Ferrothorn, who both like to come in against Latias to start laying down their entry hazards. I personally run Hidden Power [Fire] now and I've never looked back. This doesn't mean, however, that Grass Knot, Psyshock and Thunder aren't perfectly fine options for a secondary attacking option.

For the final slot I recommend either Roar or Refresh. Roar works amazingly in this entry hazard dominated metagame, especially seeing as Latias can easily force switches to rack up the damage done by Stealth Rock and Spikes. It's also very helpful against several Calm Mind Pokemon, who otherwise could be problematic to deal with. Examples are: Kyogre, Arceus-Fighting, Arceus-Grass and Manaphy. Refresh cures the ever dreaded poison which can be caused by users of the move Toxic, such as: Lugia, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Chansey/Blissey, Cresselia, Gastrodon, Gliscor and Heatran. It's also very helpful for when Latias gets paralyzed by Kyogre's Thunder and perhaps even when Chansey/Blissey uses Gravity in combination with Toxic Spikes, although this is very rare.

In conclusion I want to give Wish a mention, seeing as Latias is one of very few Pokemon viable in this metagame that actually has access to Wish (Alongside Chansey, Blissey and Jirachi). A Dragon Pulse - Wish - Protect/Recover - Thunder/Psyshock/Grass Knot/Toxic set could work for sure, I personally believe that after Wish got a mechanic change ever since Black & White were first introduced, this job is better left to Chansey or Blissey.

I encourage you all to try this Latias set out, I think it balances support and offense just about right, which in my opinion, is what Latias should do.

[Mr.lol]

Latias @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 204 SAtk / 192 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Grass Knot / Thunder
- Roar / Refresh / Toxic

This is a support Latias set I have been running and really enjoying. The EVs come from the DPP support set and ensure that Latias outspeeds Garchomp when it's not Choice Scarfed, survives two Water Spouts from Choice Specs Kyogre and is able to 2HKO support Groudon with Dragon Pulse. Adding more Speed EVs to ensure outspeeding Terrakion is definitely an option, but in my opinion not worth it on a support set, seeing as Terrakion is less problematic for it as for a Calm Mind set for example. Hidden Power [Fire] is amazing for nailing Forretress and Ferrothorn, who both like to come in against Latias to start laying down their entry hazards. I personally run Hidden Power [Fire] now and I've never looked back. This doesn't mean, however, that Grass Knot, Psyshock and Thunder aren't perfectly fine options for a secondary attacking option.

For the final slot I recommend either Roar or Refresh. Roar works amazingly in this entry hazard dominated metagame, especially seeing as Latias can easily force switches to rack up the damage done by Stealth Rock and Spikes. It's also very helpful against several Calm Mind Pokemon, who otherwise could be problematic to deal with. Examples are: Kyogre, Arceus-Fighting, Arceus-Grass and Manaphy. Refresh cures the ever dreaded poison which can be caused by users of the move Toxic, such as: Lugia, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Chansey/Blissey, Cresselia, Gastrodon, Gliscor and Heatran. It's also very helpful for when Latias gets paralyzed by Kyogre's Thunder and perhaps even when Chansey/Blissey uses Gravity in combination with Toxic Spikes, although this is very rare.

In conclusion I want to give Wish a mention, seeing as Latias is one of very few Pokemon viable in this metagame that actually has access to Wish (Alongside Chansey, Blissey and Jirachi). A Dragon Pulse - Wish - Protect/Recover - Thunder/Psyshock/Grass Knot/Toxic set could work for sure, I personally believe that after Wish got a mechanic change ever since Black & White were first introduced, this job is better left to Chansey or Blissey.

I encourage you all to try this Latias set out, I think it balances support and offense just about right, which in my opinion, is what Latias should do.

I don't know if support is the right word, that Latias doesn't support the team at all unless its spreading paralysis or poison (I AM NOT SURE IF ABSORBING SPECS SPOUTS IS SUPPORT, IF IT IS SCARF PALKIA IS AN EXCELLENT SUPPORTER, AND IGNORE THIS SENTENCE), and even THATS a stretch -_- (thunder and Toxic are slashed). Honestly that Latias looks like its standing there, waiting for something to happen. It could easily be turned into set-up fodder if its running refresh, since it can't exactly status or phaze stuff thats trying to set-up, like Extremekiller, or even worse, variants of Calm Mind Arceus. If its not running Refresh it becomes toxic bait, and unlike either of the CM sets, it can't boast a threat to Blissey or Chansey meaning they can just stroll in on any of its weak moves and Toxic it. Unboosted Dragon Pulse, while not exactly weak, is far from strong. It barely 2HKOes no investment Extremekiller (42.52% - 50.39%), while failing to 2HKO stuff with even a little bit more bulk, like Support Dialga. Regardless of the case Ferrothorn still can waltz around Latias, setting up spikes everywhere as Hidden Power Fire will tickle in the rain, leech seed and protect will allow it to easily handle Latias and it can Gyro Ball for the 2HKO whenever needed. While the other two sets have the same ferrothorn problem, the stall breaker can at least try to bounce around it via substitute or roar, potentailly setting up on Ferrothorn using Power Whip (Substitue may even help pp stall Gyro Ball Ferrothorn). While the offensive pivot spread doesn't have a way around Ferrothorn, it can at least hurt steels via +1 Thunder and take out Chansey and Blissey with Psyshock (granted Roar can do something a tad bit similar...)

I think you tried to combine both sets and ended up creating a set based around Latias trying to support. It sadly can't do that unless its running Dual Screens, and it actually is a bit inferior to Latios at that role due to memento (I'll put a dual screen set in OP if it gets enough support, since refreshing an Arceus with Healing Wish CAN be cool I guess...)

[TonyFlygon]

Although I do agree with the fact that support may not be the right title for a set like this, I don't think it's useless at all. It's not setup bait thanks to Roar and with Stealth Rock up there are very few Pokemon that will be able to come in on a Dragon Pulse from Latias, whilst the premier ones get taken care of by Hidden Power [Fire] the turn after. Perhaps I shouldn't have slashed the other options, seeing as it is indeed setup bait when running Refresh and it lures in Ferrothorn and Forretress like no other when Hidden Power [Fire] isn't being used. However, with Dragon Pulse / Recover / Hidden Power [Fire] / Roar I believe this Latias set is a very viable option. Clearly Chansey and Blissey stop this set easily, but if you can't switch in on a Chansey or Blissey with one of your other members, your team probably needs some work. Ferrothorn in rain might handle this set with Leech Seed, Protect and Gyro Ball (Power Whip is also used a lot on mono-attacking sets), but Ferrothorn is most likely going to have to switch in on Latias during other weather effects as well. I've also seen more and more physically defensive Ferrothorn running around due to the introduction of Black-Kyurem, which won't help it absorbing Hidden Power [Fire] either. Also, I just recommended to try it out, seeing as most, if not all, of the Latias sets posted in this thread are Calm Mind. I'm sorry to see you don't want to give this set a try yourself, but I'm going to keep using it, seeing it has been doing amazingly for me.

[Huy1]

What is a good counter against a Latias that uses Soul Dew, Calm Mind, Substitute, Recover, and Dragon Pulse? I can't Toxic it because it is too fast. And Whirlwind / Roar doesn't work if it is the last Pokemon. Zekrom, Garchomp, Black Kyurem?

[Anikrahman1995]

Originally Posted by Fat Huy1

What is a good counter against a Latias that uses Soul Dew, Calm Mind, Substitute, Recover, and Dragon Pulse? I can't Toxic it because it is too fast. And Whirlwind / Roar doesn't work if it is the last Pokemon. Zekrom, Garchomp, Black Kyurem?

Tyranitar, Scizor, Arceus Dark, Arceus Steel, Bulky/Stallbreaker Mewtwo, Ho-Oh, Heatran, RestTalk Kyogre(LOL, Latias has no coverage moves), Perish Song Arceus, Jirachi, Metagross, Mold Breaker Excadrill and some others which I dont remember right now.

[Dinnerblaster]

This is good Kyogre needs some more counters, so Ferrothorn or Palkia are not mandatory on an uber team.

[Gone to the beach]

Why does no one use grass knot as a coverage move?

[Furai]

Because then you are completely walled by Steel-types or Chansey. Dragon Pulse basically hits everything it needs to, including Kyogre, so Thunder and Psyshock are options to immediately wreck Kyogre or getting past Chansey.