|Jul 21st, 2012, 3:01:01 AM||#1|
Join Date: May 2011
We're Making Puns in the Rain
With Pokemon Showdown currently down due to unfortunate DDoS attacks, I figured now is as good a time as any to formally introduce everyone to the team I've been using for the better part of BW2 OU so far. Parts of it are really, really common while other team members aren't exactly the first thing that comes to mind when you think of rain. Together, it's made for a great team that has won 80%+ of its matches (out of over 100) It's played more defensively as I typically will use defensive switches to eventually find an opportune time to go on the offensive. One of the major strengths this team has is its flexibility. I've has wins in matches as short as 15 turns and wins in matches as long as 60 turns. I've also won multiple matches when operating primarily in the opponent's weather. As for the title, it'll make more sense with the nicknames. So, without a further ado, let's get started.
Team At a Glance: (as seen in Team Preview)
Lady Jeteon (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
EVs: 108 HP / 148 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
Lady Jeteon. It should make sense. I mean, come on. A female. The Eon Pokemon according to the Pokedex. She looks like a jet plane. See? Anyway, I'm sure I've posted this set around some of the OU Metagame discussion threads, but this is such an amazing Pokemon for this team. Originally chosen over her brother, Latios, for her better bulk and security in defeating the many Fighting types and Thundurus-T, Latias has perhaps become the best member of the team. Latias has been able to get me out of more jams than I care to remember. The moveset looks a lot like something Latios would run, but it's the rain support from Politoed that makes it all work. With rain at Latias's side, she can easily rely on Surf to get good hits on most opponents while dealing with the likes of Heatran, Physically Defensive Skarmory, Forretress, and others quite admirably. Draco Meteor may not be the strongest thing in the world coming from a Latias without full Special Attack investment, but there have definitely been moments where I've needed the immediate power to take care of Dragons, Thundurus-T, and Tornadus-T in a pinch when they may be threatening to try and sweep through my team. Psyshock is really the best move on this set. With it, Latias is able to get rid of many troublesome foes such as Toxicroak, Keldeo, Breloom, Virizion, Tentacruel, and others. It also gives Latias something to hit opposing Ninetales with in the Sun. Finally, there's Recover. With Recover, Latias can sometimes use switch-ins to just heal back up to a desirable amount of HP for the next time it switches in. The EVs look quite strange, but it's something of a split between bulky CM Latias and LO tank Latias. To fulfill her role as the best switch-in to Keldeo for this team, Latias needs max Speed EVs and a Timid nature in order to switch-in, take a hit, and KO with Psyshock. 148 Special Attack EVs are needed to ensure this OHKO after some entry hazard damage. By extension, this also guarantees the OHKO on Terrakion with the same entry hazard support. The remaining EVs are placed in HP so Latias can survive more attacks.
Why Latias?: It's easy to ask that question since her brother seems more suited for an offensive role. However, Latias provides me with a very important pivot from defense to offense and vice versa. She synergizes very well with the defensive Pokemon on this team (Ferrothorn and Landorus-T) while also sharing great synergy with Keldeo and Jirachi.
Slippy Toad (Politoed) (M) @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Slippy Toad. Fans of Star Fox should get this reference. Technical genius for the Star Fox team who seems underwhelming at times in combat. Politoed provides the rain for this team, but will often times lack the sheer power to get through bulky opponents. So, any team hoping to use rain needs Politoed. The Scarf version seemed to fit best with this team as it provides me with a last ditch attempt to remove dangerous threats such as Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T should my counters for them be too weak to switch into them again. Hydro Pump is a given. In the rain, it has high power and can eliminate a whole host of threats not expecting Scarf Politoed. Therian Formes, Scarf Tyranitar, Ninetales, Terrakion. The list of targets is pretty long. The other moves are basically just for coverage, which is always something a Scarf user appreciates. Ice Beam can be used on the Therians, Gliscor, and Dragons when I can't afford a miss with Hydro Pump. Focus Blast is mainly for Ferrothorn, but seeing as this team does have its fair share of issues with it, it's a great way to lure it in. Hidden Power Grass is used to 2HKO Gastrodon, but the damage output is usually disappointing against other targets such as Jelicent. Been thinking of maybe putting Toxic or Surf here. Thoughts?
Why Politoed?: Any rain team needs Politoed to provide torrential rains. The Scarf set works as a way to not lose offensive momentum while still outspeeding basically anything Jolteon outspeeds (Jolteon outspeeds by 1 point) That being said, my experience with Specs Jolteon translates a lot into how carefully I play Politoed and when I pick my spots to come in.
Wishmaker (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Flash Cannon
I really shouldn't have to explain the nickname for you guys. Jirachi is said to grant wishes, so it's the team's Wishmaker...only it doesn't have Wish. Jirachi was actually the last member to be added to the team after realizing how laughably weak I was to Tornadus-T if Politoed was down. Since the defensive core was already finished, I wanted Jirachi to be a second cross between defense and offense (the first being Latias) That's where SubCM comes into play. With Sub and Calm Mind, Jirachi is able to use Pokemon such as Chansey, Blissey, and Ferrothorn as setup fodder. If it's raining, Jirachi can actually come out on top against Specially Defensive Heatran in last Pokemon scenarios (have legit done this before) When you're trying to get Jirachi to sweep, Sub up and then use Calm Mind to boost up. Sometimes you won't have the time to Sub up and may have to just make do with a Calm Mind boost before needing to attack something. Thunder takes advantage of not only the rain, but also Jirachi's Serene Grace. There's a credo I live by: When you see Jirachi, expect hax. It's just going to happen. Thunder has a 60% paralysis chance which brings parahax into play. Many people use Water Pulse alongside Thunder in the rain, but I choose not to so Jirachi isn't totally dependent on the rain for its offense. Flash Cannon is used so Jirachi can still hit opponents outside of rain and it gives a nice, reliable STAB to use in all weathers. There are times where I've been left kicking myself, wishing I had either Water Pulse or Psyshock, but when you only have 2 attacking options, nothing will be the perfect solution. The EVs let Jirachi Speed tie base 100 Speed Pokemon and make 101 HP Subs, letting Jirachi slowly setup on the pink blobs.
Why Jirachi?: As I said earlier, the team needs Jirachi. Without Jirachi, I would have no reliable switch-in for Tornadus-T, and without Politoed, I would have no reliable way of taking out Tornadus-T due to Hurricane confusion hax. Jirachi also gives me a secondary, more offensive Steel type to take Dragon type moves, something that's especially useful against teams using a Double Dragon strategy.
Thorn Troll (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Thunder Wave
Thorn Troll. Ferrothorn is made of thorny, iron barbs and it trolls EVERYTHING that doesn't have a Fighting or Fire type move, especially in the rain. Thus, Ferrothorn is a Thorn Troll. All joking aside, Ferrothorn is one of the few walls I like using since it actually has an offensive presence. It's just something I've always wanted and probably why I do so badly with using stall teams, but if a wall doesn't have some sort of direct offensive presence, I tend to not use it very well. Anyway, Spikes is what Ferrothorn is known for. Come in on one of its many resistances, setup a layer of Spikes, and probably hightail it on out of there. Rinse and repeat. Leech Seed gives Ferrothorn a source of semi-reliable recovery and can create a makeshift trap with Spikes. Stay in and take Leech Seed damage or switch out and endure entry hazard damage? Because the team has a Stealth Rock user, Ferrothorn has a moveslot freed up for another support option. Thunder Wave was chosen so as to cripple the likes of Lati@s, Tornadus-T, and Keldeo along with many others. Finally, Power Whip is used as the offensive move as Ferrothorn commonly comes in on bulky Waters. This allows it to actually be able to do something to them directly should enough layers of Spikes are up (usually 2 is enough for this team to work at its best while 1 layer is workable) I took the Ubers EV spread for Ferrothorn for a couple of reasons. Landorus-T has Intimidate which lets the whole team, including Ferrothorn take hits more easily. Also, many of the threats Ferrothorn finds itself trying to wall and/or check attack from the special side (think bulky Waters, Lati@s, Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T, etc.) 48 EVs are still put in Defense to allow Ferrothorn to take some physical attacks.
Why Ferrothorn?: Ferrothorn is still the best at what it does IMO. Take hits from both sides and set up Spikes. Ferrothorn's ability to take so many attacks for each team member is vital to this team's success. It takes Grass and Electric moves for Politoed, Water moves for Landorus-T, Bug, Ghost, Dark, and Dragon moves for Latias, and Electric, Grass, and Psychic moves for Keldeo. Latias covers it perfectly by taking and eliminating the Fire and Fighting types Ferrothorn generally draws in.
Tiger Beast (Landorus-T) (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
Landorus-T is a beast and it resembles the cat. So, it shall be known as a Tiger Beast. Idc if it doesn't look like a normal tiger. It's a tiger and that's that ;p Landorus-T is like the neglected 3rd child in a family of brothers. Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T got hyped so much because of how awesome they would be in rain, and, to their credit, they are. However, to just ignore how good Landorus-T would just be asking for trouble. It really filled a role in this team that nothing else really could. It can setup SR, take on just about any physical sweeper in the tier, and still have a strong offensive presence. Stealth Rock is the key and also the reason I usually lead with Landorus-T in weather wars. Thanks to its offensive presence, Lando-T is perhaps the most reliable user of the move since Magic Bounce users are scared shitless of it at first. After that, Landorus-T turns into a very good bulky attacker and pivot. Even with just minimal investment in Attack, Earthquake still hits pretty dang hard, capable of 2HKOing Scizor, a very common physical attacker that Landorus-T has few issues with taking on. Stone Edge OHKOes Offensive DD Dragonite after SR, which Landorus-T provides, making it self-sufficient. Even if Dragonite uses DD on the switch, it will have to boost up again to get to +1, meaning you can get in with near impunity as long as Landorus-T is healthy. If Lando-T isn't healthy enough, you've got 2 Steel types to turn to on the forced Outrage. Finally, U-Turn allows Landorus-T to scout for troublesome Pokemon such as Keldeo or Gyarados, thus allowing me to get my check or counter in quickly. Landorus-T's low-ish Speed allows it to usually take the hit and get the counter in without taking any damage if the opponent decides to attack when I U-Turn. The EVs focus on Landorus-T's physical bulk while allowing it to always OHKO Offensive Dragonite with Stone Edge after SR. I'm well aware that Pocket has another very sufficient EV spread for this, but I just don't like leaving that OHKO on Dnite up to chance (my luck isn't all that great sometimes and I'm already relying on Stone Miss)
Why Landorus-T?: I chose it because of how efficient it is. Landorus-T provides me with many team roles in one Pokemon. SR user, bulky attacker, scouter, and check/counter to virtually every physical attacker in the tier. Even if I know Landorus-T can't beat the opposing physical attacker 1-on-1, I still will sometimes switch it in just so my counter has an easier time with it. Again, this is very useful against teams who may use the Double Dragon strategy or various other strategies that involve using 2 Pokemon with similar checks and counters and have one weaken them for the other to sweep.
Lil Pony (Keldeo-R) @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Electric]
To be perfectly honest, I'm not a big fan of MLP. (hate comments commence) In fact, I've probably watched a grand total of 3 episodes at all, none of which I can really remember tbh. Keldeo's a pony, so I'll roll with this Lil Pony. Fun true fact: The original idea for making this team was to center it around Specs Keldeo. Although it may not have turned out to be the focus of the team in the end, it's still the brute powerhouse of the team. Whenever I need to smash something absurdly hard, I turn to Keldeo. Specs Hydro Pump from Keldeo has, like...... 5 viable switch-ins? That's just a guess, but I know the list isn't really long on what can take multiple Hydro Pumps in the rain from this thing. Secret Sword gives Keldeo a more reliable way around the pink blobs, Tyranitar, and Ninetales. It also 2HKOs Gastrodon switching in and expecting to get a free switch into Hydro Pump or Calm Mind. Through the use of Choice Specs, Keldeo can run full coverage. Icy Wind isn't the strongest thing in the world, but anything faster hates it. Now, they're slower and have to take another Icy Wind to the face before they can attack. Bye-bye Lati@s, Tornadus-T, and certain Scarfers. HP Electric is used for the always-great (albeit weak in this case) BoltBeam coverage. Jelicent won't like getting 2HKOed against something it thought it was supposed to counter. Also slams Gyarados much more reliably than any other move Keldeo has. That being said, unless I'm purposely trying to lure in the likes of Lati@s and Jelicent, Keldeo will often find itself spamming Hydro Pump or, if it's sunny, Secret Sword. The EVs are pretty standard for a Choice Specs user. Max Special Attack and Speed with a Timid nature.
Why Keldeo?: Because it's pretty! Kidding aside, Keldeo is probably my favorite rain abuser since it just outright destroys stuff. I chose Specs over CM because I just felt like I would only be able to get one kill out of the match before something faster would force me out. So, I thought "Why not just start with a boosted Special Attack?". Since then, Keldeo's been the force of this team. It also provides something of a one-two punch with Scarf Politoed as most of the opposing team's Water resists will be exhausted to deal with the power of Specs Keldeo, allowing Politoed to clean up late.
Final Looks and Importable
It probably isn't the best team in the world, but it's certainly the most consistent one I've used thus far in BW2 OU. Obviously open to constructive criticism and such. Thanks in advance for the rates.
Importable: Lady Jeteon (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate EVs: 108 HP / 148 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Draco Meteor - Surf - Psyshock - Recover Slippy Toad (Politoed) (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Hydro Pump - Ice Beam - Focus Blast - Hidden Power [Grass] Wishmaker (Jirachi) @ Leftovers Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Substitute - Calm Mind - Thunder - Flash Cannon ThornTroll (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Iron Barbs EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd) - Spikes - Leech Seed - Power Whip - Thunder Wave Tiger Beast (Landorus-T) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Intimidate EVs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Stealth Rock - Earthquake - U-turn - Stone Edge Lil Pony (Keldeo-R) @ Choice Specs Trait: Justified EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Hydro Pump - Secret Sword - Icy Wind - Hidden Power [Electric]
Last edited by EonX-; Jul 21st, 2012 at 7:07:12 PM. Reason: Added section for suggested changes being tested
|Jul 21st, 2012, 3:01:33 AM||#2|
Join Date: May 2011
Color coding for more dangerous sets will have to wait. (if it's needed at all) Tired and need sleep lol. Hopefully the tone I come across will be good enough until morning.
|Jul 21st, 2012, 11:36:13 AM||#3|
Join Date: May 2011
Wherever the food is.
I noticed a lack of any efficient phazer on your team, and it seems like set-up PokŤmon could easily come in and wreck crap, such as Cloyster or Volcarona. I recommend, on Politoed, switching HP Grass to Perish Song while keeping the Choice Scarf. This way, Politoed can retain its speed boost and become an effective "revenge killer", so to speak with Perish Song. The rest of the team looks great, bee-tee-dubs.
In conclusion, HP Grass -> Perish Song
|Jul 21st, 2012, 12:40:04 PM||#4|
Join Date: Jan 2012
This is a really solid Rain Team, with very few exploitable weaknesses, congrats! I like how Ferrothorn buffers the hits of offensive powerhouses and cripples them, making them easier for Keldeo and Jirachi. One problem I do see is a weakness to Sub Calm Mind Jirachi, who can switch in on Keldeo and Politoed locked into Icy Wind or Ice Beam respectively. Jirachi can also switch in on Latias after a Draco Meteor, or when it is forced to recover, while Substituting against Ferrothorn and Calm Minding up whilst avoiding Thunder Wave. Not to mention it also outspeeds your Landorus and can deal huge amounts of damage with Water Pulse. To help with this weakness, I would definitely recommend trying out Bulldoze > Spikes on Ferrothorn. Given the offensive nature of your team, it doesn't seem to me that Spikes is all that necessary. While extra damage is appreciated, there are very few things that can switch in on Specs Keldeo after Stealth Rock and avoid the 2HKO, same thing applies for your Politoed. Bulldoze allows you to hit Sub Calm Mind Rachi, breaking it's Substitute and ultimately stopping it from setting up. Given that Ferrothorn walls Sub Calm Mind Jirachi without any Calm Minds up, it stops it dead putting less pressure on your team. Not to mention the fact that Ferrothorn does look like your main defensive wall, resisting Keldeo's and Politoed's weaknesses. Trappers such as Magnezone and Magneton will have no problem switching in and 2HKOing you in Rain, losing your defensive wall very easily. Bulldoze allows you to hit these trappers, saving your Ferrothorn, meaning you can survive more hits aimed at your sweepers. It also means you can beat these trappers without having to use Shed Shell and lose important important Leftovers recovery. Bulldoze is also great against Tentacruel who easily Spins away your hazards, and does look pretty annoying to face when Latias is down. I'd also recommend changing your Ferrothorn's EV spread to 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef. This spread optimizes bulk in both defences, making it a lot more efficient than your previous set, and overall it allows you to take hits better.
I also agree with ThatsMyLatios's suggestion of Expert Belt > Choice Specs on Keldeo. There's really nothing you miss the 2HKO / OHKO on that is important, while you still bluff the Choice Specs and retain offensive power. More importantly, you keep the ability to hit foes on both sides of the spectrum, a nightmare for common Stall Cores.
Cool team, hope I helped!
|Jul 21st, 2012, 6:58:39 PM||#5|
Join Date: May 2011
Thanks for the rates everyone. Spent the better part of the early afternoon testing them out, and here's the breakdown:
Perish Song: Haven't had to use it yet, but I haven't missed HP Grass either. So, Perish Song will likely stay for the time being.
Keldeo's item: Switched it to a Life Orb (haven't tested Expert Belt yet) and it's been just fine so far. Decided to switch to HP Ghost and run Surf over Icy Wind to take a little more advantage of being able to change moves and select power or accuracy based on the situation.
SpD Jirachi: So far, a good move. Paralysis is really nice and helps Keldeo clean up late-game. Wish is definitely helpful to Lando-T and heightens the longevity of everything. So far, no drawbacks. Running U-Turn in the last slot. Would Fire Punch be better, even in rain?
EV Spread and Bulldoze: The switch to SpDef Jirachi made the EV change much easier to make, so this is a done deal if I keep SpD Jirachi. As for Bulldoze, it was instantly useful. First team I faced after making the changes had a Magnezone in it. The lack of Spikes hasn't been quite as bad as I thought it would be, which brings me to something I did to Latias to help make up for the loss of Spikes:
And with that, I've been running a more offensive spread on Latias in order to compensate for the lack of Spikes. Now with Life Orb and 44 HP / 212 Spec Attack / 252 Speed spread. Same nature and moves. Still able to take most of the hits she used to and now never fails to OHKO Keldeo, no matter what. (212 Spec Attack EVs is the benchmark for this) Still tinkering with it, but I'm pretty sure more of an offensive spread will be needed for her if I forego Spikes in the end (which I"m really leaning toward atm)
Anyway, keep the rates coming. They've been really helpful thus far, so thanks!
|Jul 22nd, 2012, 2:13:38 AM||#6|
Join Date: Oct 2011
Your team looks pretty solid without many things to fix, but as some users have mentioned, you're slightly weak to opposing SubCM Jirachi. While the SpD Jirachi suggestion is good, I reckon your team is losing a lot of assets against stall teams with the Keldeo/Jirachi changes, as they were your main ways of defeating defensive teams. Something you could try to make Jirachi able to take hits, support the team and sweep at the same time is using a Wish + Calm Mind Jirachi. As I said, it can both take hits from opponents like Latios while helping his teammate with Wish, but while being able to set up and break teams if the occasion arises, and it can beat opposing SubCM Jirachi thanks to Wish, too, thus allowing you to remove Bulldoze on Ferrothorn (speaking of that, 0 Atk EVs Ferrothorn Bulldoze doesn't break Jirachi's substitutes, so it isn't a good check). Here's the set:
Jirachi@Leftovers | Serene Grace
Bold Nature | 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
Wish / Calm Mind / Thunder / Flash Cannon
Regarding Politoed, you could try using Encore (or/and Toxic to deal with Jellicent / Gastrodon, helping Keldeo's job) over Perish Song and maybe Focus Blast (I'm not sure about how much do you use that move, but it's generally used almost never). Encore is generally better on Scarf Politoed because unlike Perish Song, it can force out pokemon like Gyarados directly (as with Perish Song, they can spam boosted attacks during 3 turns, while Encore + switching to the appropiate pokemon simply forces them to switch out or die). Encore helps with other stuff like Keldeo and even Latias, as (again) they are forced out due to Encore.
Hope I helped!