|Jul 19th, 2012, 3:45:38 PM||#1|
Join Date: Jun 2010
Science, Pokes and a really bad joke
A Higgs Boson walks into a church and the priest says to him "Sorry, we don't allow your kind in here". To which the Higgs Boson replies "But without me, how can you have mass?" xD
...Ok, fine. I'll get on with the team then.
With the introduction of B2/W2, a lot of new toys were introduced. Whilst every man and his dog seems to be suiting up their rain team with ThunderBro-T, TornadoBro-T and Keldeo, I figured I'd take a different approach. With the discovery of the Higgs Boson and the new round of move tutors upon us, now seems like the best time to build a Gravity team. With the new slew of threats running around the metagame, defensive gravity teams just didn't seem like the way to go. So I figured I'd have a go at building an offensive take on possibly the most under-utilized field effect so far.
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
252 HP / 88 Def / 168 Sp.def
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
Whilst Ferrothorn did have access to gravity before the tutors, it was illegal with spikes, the main reason to use Ferrothorn in the first place. Luckily, the new move tutors solved a lot if its legality issues. Ferrothorn is a great user of gravity, as it is able to force multiple switches throughout the game, giving it plenty of free turns to set up. It also provides me with a solid Dragon-type and Water-type resist, meaning he can set up all over bulky waters and outraging dragons that plague the metagame. Spikes is an obvious inclusion as it racks up the residual damage and in Gravity, it can be lethal. Gyro Ball was chosen as the sole attacking move, allowing me to hit many pokes for decent damage with Ferros almost non-existent speed. I was originally using Power Whip over Leech Seed to hit Jellicent, but I felt that Ferro is a poke that is too crucial to lose, so the more recovery the better.
The one downside to Ferrothorn is that he is pretty much vital to the teams success, depending on how many layers of Spikes I can lay. This means that burns from Scald really hamper him and any crits or freezes that are thrown his way usually spell doom. Also I have to treat him like he's made of glass. If I even get a whiff that they may be packing HP Fire / Fire Blast I won't risk setting down another layer of Spikes or setting up gravity, which can make Ferros job that little bit harder.
Landorus-T @ Leftovers
200 HP / 64 Atk / 224 Def
- Stone Edge
Ok, so let's take a pokemon with good defensive typing, a Ground STAB, Intimidate and decent speed, then give him a move that makes his STAB move super-effective against his so called "counters". That's Landy-T for you. Gravity is an amazing move for Landorus-T, even making Stone Edge a viable move for 5 turns. Coming off of a base 145 attack is ridiculous, as it can put massive dents in Skarmory and Rotom-W who think they're safe. Stone Edge is a pretty vital move too. In gravity it becomes 100% accurate and also, with the gives attack EVs is pretty much guaranteed to KO Dragonite after Stealth Rocks. U-turn is pretty much filler, I sometimes use it early game if I don't have any hazards up yet, but it's team dependent really. The EVs are stolen straight from Pocket's suggestion for the Landorus-T analysis, as it allows Landorus-T to survive 2 rounds of CB terrakion's Stone edge, as well as allowing me to abuse Intimidate to it's fullest.
Landorus forms a nice gravity core with Ferrothorn, as they both cover each others weaknesses nicely, meaning I can usually keep gravity up for the majority of the game. However, he suffers from much the same problems as Ferrothorn, where losing a gravity user to a mispredict or random hax can be very detrimental, and with a lot of new pokes getting Ice Punch, this can sometimes be a problem.
Tyranitar @ Tanga Berry
252 HP / 16 Sp.atk / 240 Sp.def
- Rock Slide
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
As this is an offensive Gravity team, why not maximize the amount of residual damage I can cause? Enter Tyranitar. Sandstorm does a great job of further wearing down walls and limiting the lifespan of Life Orb users. Tyranitar is also an excellent Stealth Rock user, as he not only forces plenty of switches to set them up, but any Magic Guard users would have to have balls of steel to switch into Tyranitar directly. Crunch is chosen as the STAB of choice, allowing me to do solid damage to threats such as Reuniclus, Jellicent and the Lati twins. Fire Blast lets Tyranitar 2hko Ferrothron and Skarm, limiting their chances of setting up further which is pretty important since gravity can be a double-edged sword. Finally, I was running EQ in the final slot to further abuse gravity, but found that Hydreigon was a big problem, so I figured having a move to hit him for super effective damage would help.
Tyranitar has been working pretty well, doing what he does pretty reliably. With the new genies running around, keeping sand up is all the more important. Sometimes he's the first to go down on the team, mainly because losing the other members detracts from the teams overall performance so much more. Even if it means losing the weather war, the team can still function without its weather of choice.
Custom set, as any attempt to patch the Volc weakness just opened up new ones. So now Ttar lives a +1 Bug Buzz and can KO with Rock Slide, even without Stealth Rock. Ice Beam over Flamethrower was probably something I should've changed a while ago. I already had a decent Skarmory lure, so hitting Gliscor and Landorus it a better option, also still gives me a super-effective coverage against Hydreigon.
Starmie @ Leftovers
252 HP / 24 Def / 8 Sp.Atk / 224 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Rapid Spin
Starmie is pretty boss. She provides the team with a secondary Water-type and Ice-type resist, taking some of the heat off of Ferrothorn and provides spin support, which is vital as spikes or toxic spikes on my side of the field are a massive pain. She also checks a number of key threats running around at the moment, such as Keldeo. The EVs are to outspeed base 111 speed pokemon (stupid Tornadus and your dumb speed tier), then max HP is to take hits better. 24 Def EVs also let me take hits a little better and the final 8 Sp.Atk EVs allow Starmie to 2hko CB Scizor with Hydro Pump after Stealth Rock, which is pretty important so she can continue spinning. Psyshock was chosen over other coverage moves as it provided decent neutral coverage against threats as well as hitting Keldeo, Terrakion and Breloom for super effective damage. Thunder and Blizzard were considered for extra damage, but outside of gravity these are horribly unreliable. Rapid Spin and Recover are pretty self explanitory, allowing me to keep hazards off of the field for the majority of the game.
Starmie fits into the team pretty well, providing decent support as well as having the ability to hit a lot of pokes for decent damage. However, the loss of her attacking capabilities is missed, as sometimes she lacks the power to KO particular threats to the team with neutral hits. But overall, she's been an efficient spinner for the team.
Sableye @ Leftovers
252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Sp.def
- Night Shade
Sableye is the teams spinblocker and guess what? He got Gravity too. This pretty much meant he was a shoe in for the team, as blocking spin, breaking down stall and providing gravity support was too much to pass up on. Will-o-wisp is the status of choice, crippling physical attackers such as Salamence, Dragonite and Terrakion, even becoming 100% accurate under gravity. Taunt and Recover are the two moves that allow Sableye to wear down pokes so easily, preventing them from healing whilst keeping himself healthy. Gravity is the whole point of the team, so of course I was going to use that. the EVs are to balance out his defenses, allowing him to take some decent hits on both sides of the spectrum.
Whilst Sableye does some of his jobs well, he can be a little underwhelming at times. Whilst his decent typing allows him to hard counter Magic Guard users such as Alakazam and Reuniclus, the lack of an attacking move means all he can really do it Taunt them, set up Gravity and hope to get either Tyranitar or Heracross in safely on a resisted Shadow Ball. Also, he lacks the defenses to stand up to strong rapid spinners such as Starmie and Tentacruel (if in rain), meaning keeping my hazards up can be an issue. If only I could run a 5th move, then he would be perfect, but Sableye will just have to stick to being decent.
Night Shade over W-o-w mainly so I can hit the two Magic guard pokes for some damage, rather than just forcing a stalemate. Also I can wear down Conkledurr now without activating its Guts, which is always a plus
Heracross @ Choice Scarf
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Night Slash
Browsing through the new OU analyses, I came across this little gem. Heracross seems almost hand-made for this team. He resists Ground-type attack whilst under gravity, has a powerful but inaccurate STAB move to abuse under gravity and annihilates both Alakazam and Reuniclus, which is pretty important for a team that relies on hazards. The fact that he recently got Moxie was just the icing on the cake, as he could act as my late game sweeper. Close Combat and Megahorn are pretty obvious inclusions, doing massive damage to anything that doesn't resist them. Stone edge is saved for the pokes that do resist his STABs, leaving only Landorus and Gliscor truly safe from Heracross' coverage. Finally, I'm torn between Night Slash and Sleep Talk. Whilst hitting Jellicent / Gengar is nice, I very rarely find myself using it, as locking myself into a Dark-type attack is basically a freebie to any of the crowd of fighting types to switch in and set up. Whereas Sleep talk at least gives me a semi-reliable answer to Techniloom (although 5x Bullet Seed still hurts). Sleep Talk also has pretty bad synergy with moxie, as even if i can get a kill whilst I'm asleep, I can't make use of the +1 attack anyway.
Heracross has done really well for the team, often pulling wins out of nowhere once all of his checks and counters have been removed. Locking into CC can be a problem, as whilst it is Heracross' most reliable STAB, it leaves him very vulnerable to being revenged by priority. Even Techniloom's resisted Mach Punch does about 50% at -1 Def, so use it with caution.
Settled on Night Slash, being able to hit Jellicent and Gengar for some decent damage means that Starmies role becomes a lot simpler, also means I can still hit psychic types pretty hard outside of gravity without relying on Megahorns shacky accuracy
So there we have it. My attempt at an offensive Gravity team. I haven't managed to get it to any impressive ratings yet, mainly because I'm still looking to tweak the team, but so far main threats to the team appear to be:
Volcarona - Tanga Berry Tyranitar, who woulda thunk it?
Tornadus-T - If it's in rain it's a 50/50 between Hurricane vs Superpower, the one upside is with gravity active, it can't really abuse Regenerator too much.
There are probably a whole bunch of other threats I'm missing, but those are the main two that I've noticed. Anyway, hope you've enjoyed the team (and the awful joke) and any comments or suggestions would be greatly welcomed.
Last edited by Lazyboy; Jul 22nd, 2012 at 3:03:16 PM. Reason: Team Edits
|Jul 20th, 2012, 12:32:02 AM||#2|
Join Date: Jun 2012
The joke is awesome :D I am going to sleep now, so tomorrow I leave my rate. One thing I noticed was the items, 5 LEfties on an offensive team. Anyway try to fit Toxic Spikes somewhere, as Gravity is really useful to get that poison up. I used to have teams with 4 to 5 pokes immune/levitating/flying to get that poison spikes out of sight.
"Anything stupid to be said is sung."
|Jul 20th, 2012, 1:12:35 AM||#3|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Cool team you have here Lazyboy. It's nice to see someone who has a sense of humor and runs sand/gravity in a rain infested metagame.
Not a full rate, but I would suggest that you replace Landorus-T with Landorus-I. Thanks to Sand Force Landorus-I will hit a bit harder than his alternative forme. As you are already running Tyranitar, I see no reason to not hit harder. Also as Doom Dawg said additional hazards would be nice, anything to help Landorus pull off a sweep is helpful.
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Gravity
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Stone Edge / U-turn
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
ability: Sand Force
Hope I helped and good luck!
|Jul 21st, 2012, 12:07:54 PM||#4|
Join Date: Sep 2010
Offensive Quiver Dance is definetly a nightmare for your team. At +1, you're looking for a clean sweep. It's pretty difficult for it to set up though, but it can get pretty good chances against Heracross locked into Megahorn and Ferrothorn. Sun teams with Dugtrio in general will also be very difficult to fight against because it looks like your only way to deal with them is to keep Tyranitar alive and change the weather back to Sandstorm all the time. Tyranitar is usually reliable for that, but Dugtrio traps and kills it, meaning you'll lose pretty often. It's a good thing the popularity of Rain reduces Sun's popularity though. There isn't much you can do to fight +1 Offensive Volcarona as its power level is ridiculous, however I feel like you could change your scarfer. Choice Scarf Terrakion in the place of Heracross seems like the best fit for your needs, as it easily revenges Volcarona, and it can even get on unboosted ones. It's also a good way to fight Sun teams when Tyranitar is down. Heracross and Terrakion are both Fighting types so you will be able to revenge nearly the same things, with an extra bonus of boosting Terrakion's Special Defense thanks to Sandstorm.
However it makes you a bit weaker to Reuniclus and Alakazam, but you have the perfect answer to them which is Sableye. Sableye is immune to their two most common moves, Psychic and Focus Blast, and does not take that much damage from the weaker Shadow Ball. Swapping Will-O-Wisp for a damaging move like Night Shade is an excellent idea as it gives you the best Calm Mind Reuniclus counter possible and Alakazam will go down too. Normally I'd use it over Gravity but that kind of defeats the purpose of using Sableye on your Gravity team.
Finally, Rotom-W can really annoy the hell out of your team. It can burn Ferrothorn, which doesn't do much back since it carries Gyro Ball, while Volt Switching against the rest of your team and using Hydro Pump to OHKO Landorus-T, which doesn't carry any Speed investment, making it slower than most Rotom-W, so you can't OHKO it with Earthquake (if in Gravity). That kind of team is what really makes Rotom-W users happy as it weakens them quickly so it opens the door for their late game sweeper very early and you lose right there. Using Power Whip instead of Gyro Ball on Ferrothorn would really help that weakness as it gives you a move to hit it pretty hard. While it will probably Burn you it'll be weakened enough to not annoy your team that much.
Here's the set you should use:
|Jul 22nd, 2012, 2:52:34 PM||#5|
Join Date: Jun 2010
Thanks for the rate guys (though it is rate my team, not rate my joke haha)
@DoomDawg The reason I chose leftovers so often for offensive teams is that it means that I can run bulkier spreads with little attack investment (Landorus-T, Starmie in particular) so they can check threats better. Landorus-T needs a lot of physical investment to successfully check Dragonite and CB Terrakion, whereas Starmie needs to stay around as long as possible to continue spinning, as well as serving as an additional fire resist against sun teams.
I would've really liked to have fit toxic spikes onto the team, but I couldn't find a suitable replacement for any member of the team. Also, with rain running rampant, it's not too unlikely that Tentacruel/Toxicroak/Amoongus will be common on a lot of teams, making toxic spikes irrelevant
@Premier8 Landorus-T, or more precisely intimidate, is pretty much the backbone to my defense. SD Scizor, CB Terrakion and DD Mence all run through this team without him. But believe me, if I could use Landorus-I, I would be, as the lack of speed can be a bit of a hinderance.
@Jirachi Basically we discussed everything over IRC, so this is basically for anyone else still interested. I tried scarf Terrakion over Heracross and whilst they performed the same job, Terrakion meant the team had no grass resist outside of Ferrothorn, which was a moot point as most carry HP Fire for Scizor anyway. I tried Scarf Salamence for a short while and it performed well, +1 Volc was still able to OHKO Salamence in Sun and relying on a speed tie to beat Volcarona was hardly reliable. So in the end I decided to say screw you Volcarona and run Tanga Berry Tyranitar. This way I can live a +1 Bug Buzz and KO with the newly added Rock Slide.
As for the other changes, they've worked pretty well. Adding Night Shade to Sableye has worked pretty well, as having a solid answer to TR Reuniclus and Alakazam is awesome. W-o-w has only been missed on a few occasions, so it's not too bad.
As for Rotom-W, non-choiced versions are exactly as you said, an annoyance. Whilst he can burn Ferrothorn, outside of that he can't do much to it. Worst case scenario he catches me on the switch, but if he has to stay in to burn me, I basically get at least 1 layer of spikes and possibly a leech seed or a chance to set up Gravity. In retrospect, I'm much more afraid of choiced Rotom-W tricking me as I switch in, but it sorta leads to the same situation.
Anyway, keep your ideas coming guys, I'd really like to get this team to it's maximum potential. Current changes will be in bold. Thanks in advance.