|Jul 26th, 2012, 2:50:15 AM||#1|
Ttar by Doughboy
Join Date: Sep 2011
Old School: OU RMT
Hi ROA!! I've been delving into 3rd gen OU recently. I find it a very fascinating tier where there is a cross between the old system of Physical and Special but with the modern EV system. Anyway, the inspiration for this team was CB Aerodactyl. I had been trying it out in BW2 OU only to learn that its home lies in the Gen 3 metagame. That said this team was designed around CB Aerodactyl and giving it the means to sweep. When designing this team I kept two things in mind. First, try to keep myself as least vulnerable from spikes as possible because they are used way too much. This includes using lots of levitators/flying types and using recovery on grounded ones. The other reason for this was because of the extreme overuse of the Dugtrio+Mageneton combo. If I kept my Pokemon above the Ground I would not be susceptible to that.
Team Building Process
So this team incorpoated a Cleric Celebi, a Substitute Flygon, and a Mixed Salamence that could lure Swampert and Claydol in to get Aerodactyl to sweep. To put it bluntly, this team was awful in every capacity. For starters, it has 4 Ice weaknesses and only one resist. This is compounded to where that resist is electric weak. Also the Salamence set was crap, it never found enough use to lure in Swamper and got walled by Celebi. Flygon wasn't doing anything special either other than somewhat helping against DD Ttar. I changed out the luremence for a DDMence but the team was still facing the same issues. Stall, balance, offense this team lost a lot
This was the most expansive change to the team. I still decided I wanted a lure for Swampert, but something that could take Ice attacks. I setteled on HPGross due to the reliazation I could get Rock Slide swept by an opposing Aerodactyl. Metagross also served to give a nice 1 for 1 trade option, which is nice if I have difficulty taking something down. I noticed that nearly everyone was using a bulky water to counter Salamence. So I thought why not capitalize on this by using Gyarados? Lastly I wanted to keep the idea of having a team that is mostly levitators or flying-types. I did this because it combats the overuse of dugtrio and spikes in the metagame. Zapdos was chosen for its ability to combat bulky waters.
Zapdos was switched out for Celebi due to its ability to combat CM Suicune better. I also did this to have an answer to weaker boltbeamers.
So I was still aggravated by boltbeamers. So it came down to two choices: Snorlax or Blissey. I liked Snorlax because of the large offensive presence it could provide on the team, but it opened up many weaknesses such as to Salamence and Tyranitar. Then I realized I could also put in Swampert in over Mioltic! I still have a counter to Salamence, a nice check to Boltbeamers, and a check to DD Ttrar. I was using RestTalk on Mioltic anyway, so there was nothing to signifigant about changing it out for Swampert other than gaining those extra resists! This is where the team stands now.
Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 172 HP / 148 SAtk / 188 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Ice Punch
- Giga Drain
I enjoy leading off with a Sleeper lead due to the ability to put the opponent at a 6-5 disadvantage right off the bat. The choice was between Venusaur and Gengar and the nod went to Gengar for a few reasons. First Gengar has an immunity to Spikes which let's it double switch around much more frequently and prevents any Dugtrio shenangians. Second, it can pose a commanding offensive presence right off the bat, especially with Ice Punch. I took the EV's from onsite (all my Pokemon did since I am not experienced enough to make custom spreads yet). Giga Drain is on there to lure in and nail Swampert, as well as finish off weakened Tyranitar. However, I have tinkered with the idea of putting Destiny Bond on there to give my team another sacrificial 1 vs 1 trade move besides Metagross' Explosion. Let me know what you guys think.
Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Ice Beam
- Sleep Talk
Swampert plays an important role in the defensive aspect of the team. What RestTalk loses in utility it gains in sheer longevity. Swampert is the essential bulky water on this team that can come in on a variety of target, paticularly the omipresent Salamence. Swampert replaced Milotic on the team for a few reasons. First it patches up my weakness against the boltbeamers that just roam the tier. If a Pokemon runs HP Grass with an electric move that means Celebi can wall them instead of Swampert. Second, Swampert provides extra resists to compared to Milotic, particularly Rock. This helps greatly to check Aerodactyl and Tyranitar.
Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Atk / 20 Def / 8 SAtk
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Meteor Mash
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Metagross serves as the teams way of slicing defensive cores open. I decided upon HPGross to do the job of luring in Swampert. Swampert is an important defensive threat to get out the way for Aerodactyl. Besides luring in Swampert, Metagross acts as the bulky hitter for this team. Oftentimes after leading with Gengar, Metagross is the first Pokemon into the fray to start softening things up with Meteor Mash. I can not understate the value that Explosion has on this team. Being able to break open bulky cores is an invaluable asset to have to aid in Aerodactyl's sweep. It also helps to break down stall by taking down a key member for a sweep. Oftentimes I will have Metagross Explode on a target that walls Gyarados so it can have the oppurtunity wreak havoc. Lastly, Metagross serves as a Pokemon that late game I can fall back on defensively (think like Tauros in RBY). This is especially useful against Psychic types and Pokemon that rely on Rock moves to do damage. In practice in using Metagross, it hasn't lured in and killed a Swampert yet :( Many of them aren't the primary switch in to Metagross and even if they are they could run Protect. This means I can not use HP Grass without running the risk of revealing or having the possibility of getting hit by Earthquake.
Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Perish Song
This Celebi has always been support oriented on this team, however in the begging it was a cleric Celebi. I have since change it to a Celebi with Perish Song for a number of reasons. First, it combats Curse Snorlax and CM Suicune very effectively, which seem to be all the rage on the ladder. Second, Perish Song gives more an answer to Baton Pass teams and opposing Baton Pass Celebi. Leech Seed is to let me force opposing Pokemon out without relying on Perish Song. Perish Song only has a measly 4 PP for Suicune which means it could end up destroying me if it repeatedly tries to come in and set up. Overall Celebi provides a lot of utility to the team, but it just doesn't seem to contribute much to my win condition which makes me want to replace it with something else.
Gyarados (F) @ Leftovers
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power [Flying]
Where DD Salamence used to be in this slot is now occupied by DD Gyarados! I am sure as most of you know, Gyarados' advantage over Salamence is its capability to set up on bulky waters. This advantage is easily exploitable in this metagame, where nearly every team runs a bulky water, which means on nearly every team there is an opportunity to sweep. Gyarados can also act as a decent stall breaker due to Taunt+DD, however I will need to have worn down Skarmory and Zapdos with Metagross and Aerodactyl first. Like Metagross Gyarados is also particularly handy to fall back on defensively late game due to Intimidate. With the ease it does have with setting up, it is annoying to have to remove some very bulky targets in order for it to function correctly. Nevertheless, I think Gyarados is staple on this team and I do like how it can set up sweeps very easily while also being a team player.
Aerodactyl (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Flying]
This was the Poke I decided to build my team around after tinkering with it in BW2 OU. Let me tell you, Aerodactyl is the shit in ADV OU. What is really cool about Aerodactyl is that it is so fast that it almost acts like a Choice Scarf user in the modern generations. It can outpace DD Tar and DD Gyarados at +1 and deal some hefty damage to them. However, Aerodactyl really shows its use in the late game, where one key prediction can mean that I have a one-way-ticket to victory by spamming my move of choice. Aerodactyl is not without its flaws. It isn't exactly the hardest hitting Choice Band user, meaning even on predicted foes it still not efficient enough to break them down. Overall, I really enjoy Aerodactyl's ability to clean up late game, but he is very weak for what is my teams power house. As a matter of fact I think that due to Meteor Mash's higher base power, Metagross can hit threats just as hard as Rock Slide can.
I am not quite up to par with my specific ADV threats yet. However these are the general threats that my team has struggles against.
TSS Teams: I lost pretty badly to a TSS team on the ladder recently. I felt that there is no way to really put these types of teams on the ropes compared to what they can do to me.
Blissey: Blissey is really aggravating for this team to deal with. It can just continually absorb Sleep from Gengar while even my most powerful CB'er can not even 2HKO it.
Skarmory/by extension SkarmBliss: Skarmory is really problematic for this team since Gengar's Thunerbolt is the only move that can reliably take it out. I used to run HP Fire on Metagross for this purpose, but it was very weak against it. I was considering replacing Explosion over Giga Drain on Gengar for this purpose. I was also thinking about incorporating Zapdos because it can reliably take it out with Tbolt and it is immune to Spikes, but I really do not know where it would fit in.
Check Out the 1 vs 1 Metagame: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3483807
|Jul 26th, 2012, 3:16:34 AM||#2|
Join Date: Dec 2011
I'd suggest fitting Thunderpunch onto Metagross above either Hidden Power Grass, which "hasn't lured a single Pert in" or alternatively Earthquake. If you remove EQ, you might want to consider beefing up that Special Attack investment. This will assist you with your Skarmory issues, as Metagross is an excellent lure for Skarmory. Also, I'd Explode with Gengar above Giga Draining (also have Explosion over DBond because it's a surefire against Bissey), as your team has an excellent Swampert lure and two of the best Swampert counters in the game - Celebi and Gyarados. This will sort Skarmbliss out much better.
all triangular entities are liars
|Jul 26th, 2012, 3:50:08 AM||#3|
I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
Join Date: Dec 2005
I'm gonna bury you with my sound~
Allow me to first address your concerns about BoltBeam. The most common/prominent users are Gengar, Regice. Porygon2 is in there somewhere and Starmie might use it at times. If we need to, we can even consider CM + 3 Attack Suicune and CM + Boltbeam Blissey. If you see what I see from this list, Swampert does not necessarily patch up any weakness you may have to BoltBeam. At best it can PP stall out Porygon 2, take down Giga Drain-less Gengar (at the potential cost of being KO'd by Destiny Bond or Explosion), but it straight up loses to everything else. You don't really need to concern yourself with whether or not you can handle BoltBeam unless one of those moves are STABed and the other isn't an unboosted Hidden Power (hence why I didn't include Electrics in this list). The only Pokemon from this list that meet that critera is Regice, whom Metagross won't mind taking a few attacks from. This doesn't necessarily mean that Swampert is useless, it's just something to keep in mind when considering its role.
The main premise for this team is flawed. As I understand it, you're using HP Grass Metagross to clear out Swampert and make it easier for Aerodactyl to sweep. You misunderstand how CB Aero operates in this regard. Aero often uses the pressure from Spikes (and often Sand Stream) to force the opposing team to take extra damage. Since Rock Slide destroys the Flying types that are immune to Spikes, the usual, grounded Rock resist/bulky water is forced to come in and eventually be chipped away. When that happens, and the rest of the team is worn down, Aero is in prime position to clean up, comprising a role more similar to RBY Tauros than you've stated Metagross is. It can't just immediately sweep because the main counter/check to it is gone, unless the defending team has that many holes in its defense.
Gyarados is a bit filler. You stated that "everyone uses a bulky water to counter Salamence" and that you wanted to capitalize on that by using Gyarados. Technically...that'd only work if Salamence was still there alongside Gyarados. Sure, Aero is there to bait them in, but Aero can actually take a Surf if it neds to, and can 3HKO most of the waters if they're unlucky in avoiding flinch. That said, Gyarados is left without any key to success. Sure you get in easy on bulky waters, but how are you getting rid its counters so that it can set up? Zapdos and Skarmory both run free and create a lot of grief for your team (Celebi will simply get PP stalled by Zapdos, so even using it as a counter will create little impact in the long run).
I think that's all the destructive criticism I have, but it's hard to offer constructive criticism as the team is all over the place--each Pokemon is doing something to deal with particular threats you feel you need to cover, but these roles are not *necessarily* providing a win condition for any other Pokemon on the team. It's best if you can choose a focus like setting up DD Gyara or using Spikes pressure (which then gives Gengar the role of spinblocker) with Aerodactyl and another hard hitter to pile on chunks of damage. If you're looking for something a bit more standard to be able to handle the most common threats, you want to look more into stall/bulky offense teams that include a Spinner (or Magneton if you're ok with moving around just one layer of Spikes) or something like Superman that doesn't worry as much about Spikes (four flying-types/levitate users) and uses a lot of bulky Pokemon while still working with solid damage from strong Pokemon and residual damage.
You had a good initial mindset in trying to help Aero sweep through HP Grass Sala/Meta, but it doesn't follow through, as you're only considering Swampert as a stop to the strategy, when there's more opposition to consider. Find what you want to do with the team, consider the many things that would keep that strategy from succeeding, and find a set up your strategy with the rest of the team without trading too much synergy for coverage.
Last edited by Umby; Jul 26th, 2012 at 1:12:17 PM.