Regenerator Ho-Oh and Multiscale Lugia

[CrackinSkulls]

Great post Pokemon Trainer R, a lot fo effort has gone into it.
Im just gonna generalize a little here but essentially:
Ho-oh= unstoppable force
Lugia= Immovable object

This is know to most ubers players and although i generalize a lot it is quite true. Now to the point of the topic; what does Regenerator and Multiscale do for Ho-oh and Lugia respectively?

There is little more daunting to a player than a Ho-oh behind a sub right? well Regenerator essentially improves Ho-oh longevity and lets you pace its usage throughout the match. PLEASE DO NOT THINK OF AS SOMETHING TO REDUCE SR DAMAGE!!! That is one of the stupidest things i have heard! He is still equally weak to SR, like i mentioned before the main advantage with it improves its longevity, nothing more and nothing less. This is not necassarily a step-up from pressure as they both have unique niches however IMO Regenerator seems to make more sense. It basically lets you heal of BB and Sub damage if you can't pull off a roost/ recover (which should still be used!). It lets you heal off LO thus making an improved choice and it lets you use ho-oh like Tornadus-T in ou except MUCH tankier. One last thing PLEASE do not use Ho-oh in the rain! Ho-oh is viable in pretty much any weather except it so just don't okay!?

Now onto Lugia. Why are people so tentative to except that Multiscale is an awesome ability and Lugia, The Great Wall, is the best use i can think of. It lets you play up the Base 110 Speed without forgoing much bulk which can be handy for crippling an opponent, setting up a very speedy screen or simply just roosting up on a scale. Honestly SR will be a problem for both pressure and multiscale lugia. Lugia can be an incredibly infuriating pokemon to deal with once it is in safely and with multiscale it got an awesome buff! On a side note Lugia has no business staying in on BK or WK (mainly WK) and if you are relying on it to check them then your team needs a serious rethink.
Anyway i hope i could contribute.

[shrang]

One last thing PLEASE do not use Ho-oh in the rain! Ho-oh is viable in pretty much any weather except it so just don't okay!?

Actually, Ho-oh in the rain is quite underrated. Like Rain Volc in OU, Ho-oh ends up a lot of potential to a lot of rain teams, like Ferrothorn, Latias, Grass Arceus, Fighting Arceus, as well as giving you a huge weapon to use against sun teams. Brave Bird hits most things you want to hit, while Sacred Fire is still useful enough against the threats you want it to check (Ferrothorn, as well as 50% burn). While yes, Ho-oh is a lot less effective and harder to abuse on a rain team, you shouldn't get into the mentality that "Oh, I'm running a rain team, therefore I'm writing Ho-oh off immediately". Ho-oh is not something you'd want to abuse on a rain team, but is still really good to glue together some weaknesses you may be running into.

[CrackinSkulls]

Yes shrang you are right, i am very sorry about using superlative phrases because Ho-oh can check a lot of threats to rain teams and it can singlehandedly 6-0 sun teams. I know it shouldnt be written off but like i said i was generalizing a lot

[alphatron]

I've run into a Calm mind Ho-oh running a moveset of weatherball, thunder, and fire blast before. It wasn't in an official ubers match though and I've never seriously thought about its uses.

[TheStarRapper]

Seeing as one of Ho-oH's biggest counters is Zekrom, I would suggest Earth Power over weather ball. I'm not even sure what the Water type move in rain would be doing, or the Rock type in sand. I think even with a +1, Ho-Oh could still be relatively easily phased by Lugia, and could probably not Weather a choice scarf water spout from Kyogre. A CM set in general seems fairly prone to revenge killing...

[Jerp]

Originally Posted by Fat alphatron

I've run into a Calm mind Ho-oh running a moveset of weatherball, thunder, and fire blast before. It wasn't in an official ubers match though and I've never seriously thought about its uses.

Why not replace weatherball w/ Brave Bird? Granted the whole point of CM set is to use Special attacks and tank special hits, but now you won't be walled by the pink blobs.

[Complications]

Originally Posted by Fat Jerp

Why not replace weatherball w/ Brave Bird? Granted the whole point of CM set is to use Special attacks and tank special hits, but now you won't be walled by the pink blobs.

Well there could be a few reasons:
1. Coverage. There are many dragons in Ubers, and many resist the combo of Fire-Electric
2. Rain. Kyogre is still the most-played Ubers mon, and as such, a 100 base power attack that essentially receives stab in rain could be useful
3. Even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh does not appreciate the recoil factor from hitting the "Pink blobs" with Brave Bird, especially if it was hurt by SR upon switching in. If anyone uses a CM Ho-Oh, it'd probably be best to just switch out against Chansey/Blissey.
4. Outside of Chansey/Blissey, Brve Bird isn't dry useful without investment, whereas Weather Ball served as a more reliable coverage option than fire blast in any weather.

Also, to all the people saying how it's too difficult to use Multiscale with Substitute and SR weakness, Dragonite says hi. The beauty of it is that Lugia gets Roost via tutor (unless it becomes illegal, in which case it gets Recover) which allows it to reuse Multiscale. I personally see Multiscale as equally viable to a stall-oriented Lugia as Pressure. Here could be a potential set:

Lugia @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Def/6Sdef (Impish)
Substitute
Roost/Recover
Toxic/Thunder Wave
Dragon Tail
Substitute is obvious, shielding lugia from strong attacks and status. Personally I prefer Roost over Recover, as it gives Lugia less weaknesses than it started with. The choice for Toxic or Thunder Wave depends on the rest of your team. If you have a Pokemon who can reliably use Toxic or set up Toxic Spikes, Thunder Wace is useful as it can potentially let you roost to reactivity Multiscale before the opponent can attack or break your sub. As this is a stall-based Lugia, Dragon Tail makes an ideal phasing move, and dragon types don't appreciate it.

Thoughts?

[barry4ever]

I have to ask, why are you even using CM Ho-Oh is beyond me ? Ho-Oh greatest advantage is that it has insanely powerful physical dual stabs with which to maul Ubers who are typically physically frail. Idk why you would waste a turn to set up CM to boost your SpA, when you can do that with a Sun Boosted SACRED FIRE itself. AlsoHo-Oh anyway tanks neutral (and even some supereffective !) special hits quite easily thanks to its amazing 154 SpD. Thats why Ho-Oh is so good as a CM Arceus check.