(LC) (Peaked #1![1958]) Foongus Says Otherwise! - a Dual Commentary RMT

Gone to the beach · Jul 25th, 2012, 11:49:24 AM

Foongus Says Otherwise!

Proof

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Orange~Gone to the Beach
Blue~DatCoconut

Intro

Hello Smogonites. I'm Gone to the Beach. First of all, thanks for coming to this thread. If you could read the entire post before you comment, that would be great. In our Pokemon, we tried to deviate from standard sets while still allowing for an effective pokemon. This doesn't mean that you have to be creative in set suggestions. We hope you appreciate the time it took to make this thread!

Hey Smogon! I’m DatCoconut, or as you may see me on PS, Coconut. Gone to the beach and I have created a Little Cup team. We decided to create an LC team because we had similar interests on what we wanted in our next team. We would like you to take a look at it, and give us ways to make it better. This team has a little bit of everything…stall, bulk, sweepers, weather, etc. This team was built around the concept of Choice Scarf Snover's good coverage and how popular Sand+Drilbur is. Also note that this team has no hazards, and no spinner. This is because hail allows for residual damage to stack up and the only sr weak Pokemon are rarely brought in during mid game.

The Story Behind the Title…
Before creating this team, Coconut and I battled endlessly. Actually, I shouldn't say we battled, I just basically farmed wins off him. Oh please you got so lucky with hax...Suuuurrre. This was in due part to Foongus. That little #@$% dropped me from #3 to #7 on the ladder... Anyways, it did so much work on his sand team he called it overpowered. Why are you telling them this? It was your idea in the first place!...no comment. I believe a spectator watched one of our games and when he brought out drilbur said," drilbur is unstoppable." I replied with the phrase, Foongus Says Otherwise! We use this phrase often as he really is an anti-meta poke.

Team Building Process

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The Team

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Frosty (Snover) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 184 SAtk / 204 Spd / 24 Atk / 36 HP / 36 Def
Hasty Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Shard

Quote:

Snover wasn’t the first choice for nothing, this guy counters stuff. Contrary to Gone to the beach, I use my Snover as a revenge-killer more than a lead. The Scarf allows Snover to outspeed many common threats, and remove sand play. Eliminating Drilbur and the Sand Family is a must. Blizzard for spam, Giga Drain for STAB, HP Fire for coverage. And…Water Pulse. Well, I hate Ice Shard…It’s Scarfed, why does it need priority. Even more so because it’s a special Snover. And we decided the best possible choice was Water Pulse. Just in case we could predict the switch.

Just look at that coverage! Yes Blizzard is going to be used most of the time, but a lot of Pokemon would die for coverage moves like Snover possesses. I almost always lead with Snover because hail is really important to how I play. Snover barely ever comes out after that as our team is great at countering threats. He's basically an insurance policy. This is beneficial because he's weak to stealth rock. Snover is basically a end-all be all to weather team sweepers. While many people think Drillbur is broken, Snover Says Otherwise! Rain teams have all their fast momentum taken away by Snover, who can often sweep with Giga drain. Snover is just a fantastic Pokemon on our team because he is always there to fix a bad play or some lucky hax.

/

Emperor (Foongus) @ Eviolite
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 124 HP / 156 Def / 76 SAtk / 76 SDef / 76 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Stun Spore
- Sludge Bomb

Quote:

Ah, Foongus…a Pokemon that used to define rage is now on the battlefield for me. I love it. Having played VGC 11, I know how rage-inducing Amoonguss is, and Foongus does the same. Eviolite is standard, keep it’s bulk. Regenerator is amazing, and makes predicting the double switch well worth it. Spore the first Pokemon, Stun Spore the switch. Giga Drain is to heal and for STAB. HP Flying was an odd choice but it had amazing payback, removing tough fighting types and other grass walls.

When Coconut and I first started building this team, Foongus was the second choice. I knew this Pokemon would be able to help the team with the type little cup is known for, fighting. When you wall the most popular Pokemon in the meta-game, Mienfoo, you can't go wrong. This set is quite unique if only for HP flying. I'm surprised this move isn't standard. Clear smog was never being used, and hp fire isn't necessary. Hp flying gives it a way to not only hit those fighting types Foongus walls oh-so-well, but the grass types Foongus gets walled by. Foongus is an amazing Pokemon who is central to this team by walling physical threats.

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420 (Chinchou) @ Eviolite
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 52 Def / 220 Spd / 232 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Heal Bell

Quote:

Oh how much I love Chinchou! Great abilities, fantastic coverage. We were originally running Restalk on Chinchou, but it didn’t cover enough. So we ran ChestoResto, and that wasn’t enough defense. So I had to give in and take a Bulky Set. I chose Water Absorb, which he completely disagrees with, but Water types are much more common and their attacks *SCALD* scare some Pokémon. It also plays a little mind games with the opponent because Volt Absorb is too common. So Water Absorb is the way to go! Now to the rest of it Hydro Pump and Volt Switch are for STAB. HP Fire is awesome for coverage. And Heal Bell was just so useful and seriously supports the rest of the team.

Chinchou is just a utility guy. He is very important for walling the fire type attacks that threaten the rest of the team, giving momentum with volt switch, and being the team's cleric. I'm sure you will question heal bell, but it is central to the teams strategy as Pokemon can turn useless after status. Chinchou has went through many different sets on our team and this one is probably the best. it allows for much more offensive pressure then we had before while still giving it the potential to wall big threats like Houndour, Larvesta, Ponyta. This poke needs to stay alive. Volt absorb is better, he already resists water attacks!

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Al Pacino (Murkrow) @ Eviolite
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 36 HP / 156 Atk / 20 Def / 100 SDef / 188 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Substitute
- Roost

Quote:

Murkrow is just one of those mons that make people go, Oh sh-. It’s incredible power and speed make it quite ‘the force to be reckon with.’ It’s typing also just fit so well. Roost because who wouldn’t want priority healing. Substitute because it’s pretty standard, Brave Bird for STAB, and Sucker Punch is my favorite move on the set, mostly because I can play like an idiot with it and mess with overpredictors. A little too standard if you ask me, but I haven’t seen flaws.

I can't express Murkrow any better than Coconut can. He really is a threat that all teams must prepare for. This set gets walled by Magnemite, but everything is alright when we switch porygon in to trap it and recover stall it until Blizzard/Tri Attack eventually kills it off. This is the only standard set we have on our team, because it just wrecks. Playing mind games against Abra is one of the best things to do. Although he is weak to Stealth Rock, his recovery move makes up for it. Murkrow is the teams end-game sweeper more often than not. His great power allows us not to use a set-up sweeper on the team. Murkrow also is immune to the psychic and ground attacks that are tough for the rest of team to face.

/
Danny Devito (Croagunk) @ Eviolite
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 132 HP / 108 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SDef / 36 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch

Quote:

Croagunk! This guy is amazing and my favorite one of the six. He’s my normal lead, and he does it well. With Poison Touch, I’m able to Poison and Flinch someone on the same turn. He absorbs Toxic Spikes, and he is the priority king to me! Fake Out is pretty standard. Sucker Punch takes down faster foes. Drain Punch allows Croagunk to replenish the health he lost, while hitting strong STAB. Knock Off to get rid of the pesky Eviolite users. Plus the creepy laugh as a cry, and you got yourself a killer!

Poison Touch is something everyone must try out. When Fake Out leaves something at 8% hp, where Hail doesn't take it out, you get upset. But Poison Touch has the potential to remedy this. Al Alchemist gave me this set and it works wonders. Instead of using dark pulse/shadow ball similar to the standard set, you can knock off Missy's Eviolite and k0 with sucker punch. This guy is here so Scraggy and Lileep don't destroy the team. His priority is very important and knock off is just so useful in Little Cup. Drain Punch gives it the ability to actually do some damage and some good recovery. His fighting type resistance is very important in taking on threats when Foongus can't. Dry Skin is never missed because we have 3 water resists (and an immune if your stupid) while poisoning a Pokemon can mean all the difference. Croagunk is just so good at dealing with specific threats, he allows for his team mates to flourish.

Trollygon (Porygon) @ Eviolite
Trait: Trace
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Tri Attack
- Recover
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder Wave

Quote:

And the most diverse Pokémon on this team! Porygon is amazing! Trace works wonders and can create havoc for unwary battlers. Eviolite seriously helps this…thing. Tri Attack has STAB and more status! Shadow Ball is good coverage. Blizzard is amazing with Snover around. Recover is the best move on this set. Not only are you able to heal and stall, but you can seriously win with it if you Trace an ability like Prankster. The EV spread is…spread. But it works a charm and can take a hit or two.

The glue Pokemon often holds the team together. This is true with Porygon. This guy doesn't die if he's played well. He's powerful and bulky, which is just what we needed. Trace is just icing on the cake for Porygon. Porygon acts as a pseudo fire type counter because of tracing Houndour and Ponyta which are the most popular. His coverage is also great. Tri attack and shadow ball allow him to hit a lot of Pokemon for effective damage. Blizzard is great in taking out Murkrow, who Porygon stalls out with recover because it copies Prankster. Porygon is the best pivot on the team, and is usually what I go to on blind switches. Porygon really holds the team together and is one tough duck to take out.

Importable

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Thanks for taking the time to look at this! Luvdiscs are appreciated as this took a lot of effort.

DatCoconut · Jul 25th, 2012, 1:00:23 PM

Reserved

Friar · Jul 25th, 2012, 2:11:47 PM

This looks like a very solid team guys, congratulations. One thing that I notice off the bat is an ironic weakness to Snover. Between its powerful Blizzards and Giga Drains, your team struggles to switch in if it were to come in threatening Amoonguss or Snover locked into the wrong move. You're team also lacks Stealth Rock, which is a great move in general, but would also help your team against threats such as Larvesta, Houndour, and Ponyta especially, who can wear your team down with STAB moves or in Ponyta's case get rid of Hail temporarily, making life harder for Chinchou, your sole Fire resistance. Bronzor covers Snover well and can provide Stealth Rock. Seeing as you picked Murkrow for its resistance to Psychic and Ground, Bronzor seems to fit in rather seemlessly over it. You already have Snover and Croagunk to revenge kill things, so the loss of Sucker Punch is not a huge problem. Between Stealth Rock and Hail damage, wearing down opposing teams should be significantly easier. I would use just standard Bronzor with Stealth Rock / Flash Cannon / Earthquake / Toxic. Good Luck!

Gone to the beach · Jul 27th, 2012, 4:39:18 PM

Thanks a lot for looking at our team Friar. Snover isn't really a problem because croagunk avoids the 0k0 from blizzard and chinchou eats it.

The stealth rock problem is negated by the hail almost every time actually. Our team relies on a lot of offensive pressure with porygon being the only switch in to common pokemon that doesn't threaten right away. (Foongus is always threatening with double status).

Since stealth rock is common, one does tend to not carry multiple fire-types on one's team. Otherwise, our team would have a huge problem.

Onto Bronzor, I agreed with every point you made and put him in the team. Sadly Murkrow is the only big hitting physical attacker on the team. Stealth rock did help a lot but I sorely missed the offensive pressure Murkrow put on the opponent. It helped a lot with what I fear is this team's biggest problem though.

We have no switch in to a powerful return. Once Aipom or Marill switch in, I know I'm going to have to sac something. Luckily, I always play choice scarf Snover to my Advantadge as Blizzard koes all of them. I really wanted to put Bronzor into the team, but Murkrow gives the team too much utility.

Thanks so much for replying, Bronzor is a great fit on this team, but Murkrow fills a niche Bronzor doesn't replace.

alexwolf · Jul 27th, 2012, 10:00:47 PM

I know little about NU, but i have a question... Why are you using HP Flying instead of Sludge Bomb? Neutral Sludge Bomb has almost the same BP as a super effective HP Flying (135 vs 140) so it hits fighting types for the same damage (except from Croakang) and Grass types much harder, while also having a very neat chance to poison the foe. So is Croakang such a problem for your team or you just didn't though about Sludge Bomb?

Superpowerdude · Jul 28th, 2012, 2:22:02 AM

Hey there guys nice team! I had alot of fun versing this team and looks like a great team to kick start the "Foongus Regenerator Era"

As proven with my match against this team it dislikes Dwebble setting hazards alot since Murkrow, and Snover both have a crippling weakness to rocks. Also Spikes wears down Chinchou, Croagunk and Porygon quite quick as well thats why I can suggest you try Staryu>Chinchou this gives you a rapid spinner that your team can greatly use to support it. Staryu is also a powerful wielder of the move Hydro Pump and can absorb status with Natural Cure. Also the loss of an electric and Hp Fire on Chinchou are not to much of a big deal because you have Snover with Hp fire and the water and flying types that were taken out by Chinchous stab Volt Switch can be taken out by Snovers Giga Drain and Blizzard Respectivly.

All in all a solid and fun Little Cup team and the use of Foongus is great! Luvdisc`ed :)

Sets

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~Superpowerdude

Gone to the beach · Jul 28th, 2012, 7:12:40 PM

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

alexwolf~ I will be testing that more. I've tested sludge bomb and its working alright, but oddly enough I have been having problems with croagunk. It's probably because foongus is my first switch in. I've also been having problems with it poisoning pokes I don't want poisoned.

SuperPowerDude~ Honestly I have no problems with stealth rock on the team but I still am testing staryu. Hp fire is actually missed because I can't surprise ferooseed switch-ins. But staryu is doing a decent job on the team. I'll have to test this more.

In other news, The team is now #1 on the little cup ladder on Pokemon showdown!

Thanks for the feedback.

Cherub Agent · Jul 29th, 2012, 6:04:52 AM

Not a LC man by any means, but this team certainly looks fun to use. Considering Murkrow has three priority moves, is a Jolly nature worth it? Wouldn't Adamant let you hit things a lot harder? I'll admit I have no idea about LC Speed tiers, but from an objective point of view Adamant would seem more useful?

EDIT: nvmm, had no idea that the difference was only one Atk point lol. I'll learn the metagame before posting :P

Charmander · Jul 29th, 2012, 1:25:36 PM

@Cherub Agent

Adamant doesn't really make that much of a difference. A lot of the time, 1 atk point won't even change the calc. Hitting 19 Speed is really important so you can tie with other Missy and Krow and not have to predict much to beat them. Jolly is always just a safer approach

Gamester · Jul 29th, 2012, 4:15:40 PM

Fantastic looking team! I don't play LC but I can see that this must be very effective. Loving the use of Foongus and Snowver also Porygon looks fantastic on this team with trace opening up tons of options

Gone to the beach · Aug 1st, 2012, 11:14:41 AM

Bump. I'd like tO see this get a little more attention.

EBeast · Aug 3rd, 2012, 6:42:54 PM

Ok, I definitely agree with Alexwolf on Sludge Bomb over Hidden Power Flying on Foongus for the same reason (This was actually the first thing that stood out to mean when looking at the team)

What your team struggles with: Your team absolutely hates Knock Off Mienfoo as it can check a good portion of your team, forcing it out and getting off a free Knock Off removing important items from your team. This can get even trickier when Mienfoo is paired up with Diglett (a very effective core you need to watch out for) as Mienfoo can Knock Off the Eviolite off Foongus and Murkrow or U-turn on your switch to Croagunk and make it easy pickings for Diglett. Life Orb Houndour and Murkrow can also cause huge problems for your team as your Porygon is your only real switch into it, and not a very good one at that due to your inefficient spread. Chinchou goes down to a Drill Peck + Hidden Power Grass after Stealth Rock and Brave Bird Krows don't even need help from SR. Your Porygon set at the moment gets 2HKOed by LO Drill Peck after Stealth Rock and cleanly 2HKOed by Brave Bird. Like I also said Life Orb Houndour is a massive threat to your team as I keep spreading the word, more Life Orb Houndour are changing over to Early Bird for the instant wake up from Spore or Sleep Powder and the ability to 2HKO Trace Porygon by just blindly spamming Fire Blast.

Teambuilding Tip: As I have said a few times your EV spreads are inefficient outside of Murkrow and Chinchou. A quick tip is that when not using Life Orb or boosting up one of your offenses stats, even numbers on your attack and special attack are worthless. For example your Snover's spread gives it 14 SpA which is inefficient as 14 SpA gives the same damage output as 13 SpA, while failing to put off the damage of 15 SpA. There are a few exceptions, such as sometimes 16 doing more than 15 but these are on resisted hits and don't impact as much as giving another stat a boost. Odd HP numbers and even numbers on your Defense and Special Defense of your Eviolite Pokemon are your friends. Odd HP numbers minimize amount of damage you take from entry hazards while even HP numbers get a bigger boost from Eviolite. (Foongus's current 15 Def gives it 22 Def after Evio, while with 16 it would get 24 Def. This is HUGE) When making custom EV spreads in LC you have to keep these in mind and make multiple damage calculations to see how effective your spread is, sometimes a change looks good on paper but makes no difference in practice due to the nature of damage against Level 5 Pokemon.

What to do to try to fix this: Fixing most of your spreads would be a HUGE help to you and from just doing that you're not as weak to Murkrow as you once were. By changing your Chinchou to Specially Defensive it relieves you of your weakness to Life Orb Houndour and should be your first switch into it before scouting the Early Troll, err Early Bird ability. A bulkier Chinchou also gives you another check to Murkrow, which can still deal heavy damage to your team if supported by the Knock Off Mienfoo I mentioned earlier as well as deal better against Ponyta and Larvesta. Water Pulse on Snover is just fine, but if you ever need another Murkrow set Ice Shard is actually very useful as LO Sucker Power could take Snover out after a bit of hazards damage. All of this should help the auxiliary weakness gained from the support given from Knock Off Mienfoo, but finding a way to actually deal with Knock Off Mienfoo is much trickier. Thankfully you already have Murkrow and Croagunk so you can definitely play around it.

TL;DR

The Fixes

Cool team, and good luck!

iss · Aug 3rd, 2012, 7:32:55 PM

Hey, nice team and congrats on the #1 peak. I've used a similar team in the past (Murkrow/Snover/Porygon core) and I feel that it is one of the best cores in the metagame.

I agree with all of EBeast's minor changes to your EVs. I also strongly recommend Thunder Wave over Blizzard on Porygon. Thunder Wave is truly an incredible move on Porygon, as it opens up many more options for it. Say you switch Porygon in on a Misdreavus Shadow Ball. With your current set, you're forced into Shadow Ball or Blizzard, as Tri Attack would be too risky with a Misdreavus 3HKO being a possibility (forcing you to spam Recover for a bit). Thunder Wave not only allows you to wreck Misdreavus should it decide to stay in, but also makes Mienfoo and the like think twice about switching into you.

I support running a utility Staryu set over Chinchou. Your team doesn't need the Electric immunity too badly, and with two Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock you will be forced to play conservatively against a team with Stealth Rock. A spread of 196 HP / 36 SpA / 236 Speed with a Timid nature and Eviolite using the moveset Scald / Psychic / Rapid Spin / Recover should work out well for you. Psychic is simply fantastic in the current metagame, as it picks up an absurd number of KOes on unsuspecting Croagunk, can force out Foongus on a predicted switch, and also hits Mienfoo just as hard as Hydro Pump would. Scald compensates for the lack of Thunderbolt, allowing this Staryu to become a pretty solid check for Murkrow. The burn chance is also a nice deterrent to physical attackers.

I also agree with Ice Shard over Water Pulse on Snover, as your team doesn't have any problems with Fire-types at all. While Ice Shard is situational, that one game it wins you out of 25 is definitely worth it. This is just a very minor change though.

Gone to the beach · Aug 4th, 2012, 1:20:06 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

I changed all the ev spreads as they are obviously more effecient. I'm trying the chinchou set but I can't find many battles on smogon. I will also try the staryu set when I can.

I also changed water pulse to ice shard on Snover because it does come in handy.

Trakyan · Aug 11th, 2012, 2:20:01 AM

EBeast raised a few good points, powerfull attackers(especialy fire types) can give you issues. Especially ponyta with flame body(which is very viable, i mean, how tempting is it to burn mienfoo just by standing there?) which neuters porygons trace and can criple your murkrow, your only real switch in to this is chinchou which lacks recovery and can be worn down or picked off by a diglett.

Jul 27th, 2012, 10:00:47 PM	#5
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,632 Greece	I know little about NU, but i have a question... Why are you using HP Flying instead of Sludge Bomb? Neutral Sludge Bomb has almost the same BP as a super effective HP Flying (135 vs 140) so it hits fighting types for the same damage (except from Croakang) and Grass types much harder, while also having a very neat chance to poison the foe. So is Croakang such a problem for your team or you just didn't though about Sludge Bomb? __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check!

Jul 28th, 2012, 2:22:02 AM	#6
Superpowerdude A Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 913 Australia Mentor	Hey there guys nice team! I had alot of fun versing this team and looks like a great team to kick start the "Foongus Regenerator Era" As proven with my match against this team it dislikes Dwebble setting hazards alot since Murkrow, and Snover both have a crippling weakness to rocks. Also Spikes wears down Chinchou, Croagunk and Porygon quite quick as well thats why I can suggest you try Staryu>Chinchou this gives you a rapid spinner that your team can greatly use to support it. Staryu is also a powerful wielder of the move Hydro Pump and can absorb status with Natural Cure. Also the loss of an electric and Hp Fire on Chinchou are not to much of a big deal because you have Snover with Hp fire and the water and flying types that were taken out by Chinchous stab Volt Switch can be taken out by Snovers Giga Drain and Blizzard Respectivly. All in all a solid and fun Little Cup team and the use of Foongus is great! Luvdisc`ed :) Sets ... Staryu @ Evolite\| Natural Cure Timid \| 36 Hp / 200 SpA / 240 Spe Hydro Pump / Thunder Bolt or Ice Beam/ Rapid Spin / Recover ~Superpowerdude __________________ #ratemyteam \| Smog Work\| Rater Of the Week \| RMT \| Dogbirds Join #dogbirds on irc!!! Last edited by Superpowerdude; Jul 28th, 2012 at 3:33:49 AM. Reason: adding ev spread to staryu

Jul 29th, 2012, 6:04:52 AM	#8
Cherub Agent I may be dead, but I'm still pretty. Which is more than I can say for you Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 2,243 intimidatingly cute Mentor	Not a LC man by any means, but this team certainly looks fun to use. Considering Murkrow has three priority moves, is a Jolly nature worth it? Wouldn't Adamant let you hit things a lot harder? I'll admit I have no idea about LC Speed tiers, but from an objective point of view Adamant would seem more useful? EDIT: nvmm, had no idea that the difference was only one Atk point lol. I'll learn the metagame before posting :P __________________ (16:08) <@skylight> BUT I DID NOTHING WRONG (16:08) <@skylight> CHERUB (16:08) <@skylight> i will FUCK YOU (17:20) <@skylight> ill luvdisc your ass Last edited by Cherub Agent; Jul 29th, 2012 at 1:37:12 PM.

Jul 29th, 2012, 1:25:36 PM	#9
Charmander Mission Complete Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,690 Great Falls, VA Mentor	@Cherub Agent Adamant doesn't really make that much of a difference. A lot of the time, 1 atk point won't even change the calc. Hitting 19 Speed is really important so you can tie with other Missy and Krow and not have to predict much to beat them. Jolly is always just a safer approach __________________ Last edited by Charmander; Aug 9th, 2012 at 4:13:33 PM.

Jul 29th, 2012, 4:15:40 PM	#10
Gamester Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 50	Fantastic looking team! I don't play LC but I can see that this must be very effective. Loving the use of Foongus and Snowver also Porygon looks fantastic on this team with trace opening up tons of options __________________ Solar Vengeance - My #1 peaking Sun RMT Euthanasia - My #1 peaking Sand RMT Here are a couple of cool cores if you need some team-building ideas Message me if you'd like a team rate or anything really. I'm here to help :]

Jul 25th, 2012, 1:00:23 PM	#2
DatCoconut Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 19	Reserved

Jul 25th, 2012, 2:11:47 PM	#3
Friar Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 586 St. Louis, MO	This looks like a very solid team guys, congratulations. One thing that I notice off the bat is an ironic weakness to Snover. Between its powerful Blizzards and Giga Drains, your team struggles to switch in if it were to come in threatening Amoonguss or Snover locked into the wrong move. You're team also lacks Stealth Rock, which is a great move in general, but would also help your team against threats such as Larvesta, Houndour, and Ponyta especially, who can wear your team down with STAB moves or in Ponyta's case get rid of Hail temporarily, making life harder for Chinchou, your sole Fire resistance. Bronzor covers Snover well and can provide Stealth Rock. Seeing as you picked Murkrow for its resistance to Psychic and Ground, Bronzor seems to fit in rather seemlessly over it. You already have Snover and Croagunk to revenge kill things, so the loss of Sucker Punch is not a huge problem. Between Stealth Rock and Hail damage, wearing down opposing teams should be significantly easier. I would use just standard Bronzor with Stealth Rock / Flash Cannon / Earthquake / Toxic. Good Luck!

Jul 27th, 2012, 4:39:18 PM	#4
Gone to the beach Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 83 They paved paradise And put up a parking lot	Thanks a lot for looking at our team Friar. Snover isn't really a problem because croagunk avoids the 0k0 from blizzard and chinchou eats it. The stealth rock problem is negated by the hail almost every time actually. Our team relies on a lot of offensive pressure with porygon being the only switch in to common pokemon that doesn't threaten right away. (Foongus is always threatening with double status). Since stealth rock is common, one does tend to not carry multiple fire-types on one's team. Otherwise, our team would have a huge problem. Onto Bronzor, I agreed with every point you made and put him in the team. Sadly Murkrow is the only big hitting physical attacker on the team. Stealth rock did help a lot but I sorely missed the offensive pressure Murkrow put on the opponent. It helped a lot with what I fear is this team's biggest problem though. We have no switch in to a powerful return. Once Aipom or Marill switch in, I know I'm going to have to sac something. Luckily, I always play choice scarf Snover to my Advantadge as Blizzard koes all of them. I really wanted to put Bronzor into the team, but Murkrow gives the team too much utility. Thanks so much for replying, Bronzor is a great fit on this team, but Murkrow fills a niche Bronzor doesn't replace.

Jul 28th, 2012, 7:12:40 PM	#7
Gone to the beach Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 83 They paved paradise And put up a parking lot	Thanks for taking the time to respond! alexwolf~ I will be testing that more. I've tested sludge bomb and its working alright, but oddly enough I have been having problems with croagunk. It's probably because foongus is my first switch in. I've also been having problems with it poisoning pokes I don't want poisoned. SuperPowerDude~ Honestly I have no problems with stealth rock on the team but I still am testing staryu. Hp fire is actually missed because I can't surprise ferooseed switch-ins. But staryu is doing a decent job on the team. I'll have to test this more. In other news, The team is now #1 on the little cup ladder on Pokemon showdown! Thanks for the feedback.

Aug 1st, 2012, 11:14:41 AM	#11
Gone to the beach Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 83 They paved paradise And put up a parking lot	Bump. I'd like tO see this get a little more attention.

Aug 3rd, 2012, 6:42:54 PM	#12
EBeast she's probably sexting nprtprt Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 651	Ok, I definitely agree with Alexwolf on Sludge Bomb over Hidden Power Flying on Foongus for the same reason (This was actually the first thing that stood out to mean when looking at the team) What your team struggles with: Your team absolutely hates Knock Off Mienfoo as it can check a good portion of your team, forcing it out and getting off a free Knock Off removing important items from your team. This can get even trickier when Mienfoo is paired up with Diglett (a very effective core you need to watch out for) as Mienfoo can Knock Off the Eviolite off Foongus and Murkrow or U-turn on your switch to Croagunk and make it easy pickings for Diglett. Life Orb Houndour and Murkrow can also cause huge problems for your team as your Porygon is your only real switch into it, and not a very good one at that due to your inefficient spread. Chinchou goes down to a Drill Peck + Hidden Power Grass after Stealth Rock and Brave Bird Krows don't even need help from SR. Your Porygon set at the moment gets 2HKOed by LO Drill Peck after Stealth Rock and cleanly 2HKOed by Brave Bird. Like I also said Life Orb Houndour is a massive threat to your team as I keep spreading the word, more Life Orb Houndour are changing over to Early Bird for the instant wake up from Spore or Sleep Powder and the ability to 2HKO Trace Porygon by just blindly spamming Fire Blast. Teambuilding Tip: As I have said a few times your EV spreads are inefficient outside of Murkrow and Chinchou. A quick tip is that when not using Life Orb or boosting up one of your offenses stats, even numbers on your attack and special attack are worthless. For example your Snover's spread gives it 14 SpA which is inefficient as 14 SpA gives the same damage output as 13 SpA, while failing to put off the damage of 15 SpA. There are a few exceptions, such as sometimes 16 doing more than 15 but these are on resisted hits and don't impact as much as giving another stat a boost. Odd HP numbers and even numbers on your Defense and Special Defense of your Eviolite Pokemon are your friends. Odd HP numbers minimize amount of damage you take from entry hazards while even HP numbers get a bigger boost from Eviolite. (Foongus's current 15 Def gives it 22 Def after Evio, while with 16 it would get 24 Def. This is HUGE) When making custom EV spreads in LC you have to keep these in mind and make multiple damage calculations to see how effective your spread is, sometimes a change looks good on paper but makes no difference in practice due to the nature of damage against Level 5 Pokemon. What to do to try to fix this: Fixing most of your spreads would be a HUGE help to you and from just doing that you're not as weak to Murkrow as you once were. By changing your Chinchou to Specially Defensive it relieves you of your weakness to Life Orb Houndour and should be your first switch into it before scouting the Early Troll, err Early Bird ability. A bulkier Chinchou also gives you another check to Murkrow, which can still deal heavy damage to your team if supported by the Knock Off Mienfoo I mentioned earlier as well as deal better against Ponyta and Larvesta. Water Pulse on Snover is just fine, but if you ever need another Murkrow set Ice Shard is actually very useful as LO Sucker Power could take Snover out after a bit of hazards damage. All of this should help the auxiliary weakness gained from the support given from Knock Off Mienfoo, but finding a way to actually deal with Knock Off Mienfoo is much trickier. Thankfully you already have Murkrow and Croagunk so you can definitely play around it. TL;DR Snover --> Fix Spread Chinchou --> Specially Defensive Chinchou Foongus --> Fix Spread + Sludge Bomb > HP Flying Murkrow --> Fix Spread Croagunk --> Fix Spread Porygon --> Fix Spread ; Thunder Wave > Blizzard (Optional) The Fixes Frosty (Snover) (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Snow Warning EVs: 36 HP / 36 Def / 184 SAtk / 36 SDef / 204 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Blizzard - Giga Drain - Hidden Power [Fire] - Water Pulse Apparently you had forgotten to add the extra 4 SpA Evs when changing to Hidden Power Fire. Emperor (Foongus) (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Regenerator EVs: 124 HP / 156 Def / 76 SAtk / 76 SDef / 76 Spd Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Spore - Giga Drain - Stun Spore - Sludge Bomb Like I said Sludge Bomb > HP Flying. This one has 25 HP / 14 Def / 13 Def, and even though I said even numbers are better Foongus prefers more physical defensive to begin with and the extra SpD is extra. The extra point in SpA allows Foongus to deal an extra 2 damage to Mienfoo with Sludge Bomb and the extra point lets Foongus hit 9 Spe. This can be useful for outspeeding Slowpoke, Ferroseed, or Croagunk so you can status or attack them before they do anything to you. 420 (Chinchou) (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Volt Absorb EVs: 76 HP / 132 Def / 232 SDef / 60 Spd Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Rest - Sleep Talk - Scald - Heal Bell This set is very very resilient and with Heal Bell to remove the status that your team absolutely hates, especially Porygon, Snover, Croagunk, and Murkrow. RestTalk can even pick Heal Bell and wake up early which is nice, and not having Discharge to hit Water-types is just fine when you have Snover and Foongus. Al Pacino (Murkrow) (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Prankster EVs: 36 HP / 156 Atk / 20 Def / 100 SDef / 188 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Sucker Punch - Brave Bird - Substitute - Roost 17 Atk makes no real difference from 18, only a few irrelevant damage variations. The extra 2 Special Defense points after Eviolite lets you handle Misdreavus better too. Danny Devito (Croagunk) (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Dry Skin EVs: 132 HP / 108 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SDef / 36 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Knock Off - Drain Punch - Fake Out - Sucker Punch Like a said 15 Atk is just as good as 16 and Croagunk can take advantage by gaining an extra point in HP. Trollygon (Porygon) @ Eviolite Trait: Trace EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SAtk Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Tri Attack - Recover - Shadow Ball - Blizzard / Thunder Wave Since Porygon's health is so high having an odd HP number doesn't make as much of a difference and Porygon needs all the bulk it can get to check Murkrow effectively. Thunder Wave is nice to status Mienfoo or other switch ins, but it's completely optional. Cool team, and good luck! __________________

Aug 3rd, 2012, 7:32:55 PM	#13
iss perpetual semifinalist Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,980 sirndpt <3	Hey, nice team and congrats on the #1 peak. I've used a similar team in the past (Murkrow/Snover/Porygon core) and I feel that it is one of the best cores in the metagame. I agree with all of EBeast's minor changes to your EVs. I also strongly recommend Thunder Wave over Blizzard on Porygon. Thunder Wave is truly an incredible move on Porygon, as it opens up many more options for it. Say you switch Porygon in on a Misdreavus Shadow Ball. With your current set, you're forced into Shadow Ball or Blizzard, as Tri Attack would be too risky with a Misdreavus 3HKO being a possibility (forcing you to spam Recover for a bit). Thunder Wave not only allows you to wreck Misdreavus should it decide to stay in, but also makes Mienfoo and the like think twice about switching into you. I support running a utility Staryu set over Chinchou. Your team doesn't need the Electric immunity too badly, and with two Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock you will be forced to play conservatively against a team with Stealth Rock. A spread of 196 HP / 36 SpA / 236 Speed with a Timid nature and Eviolite using the moveset Scald / Psychic / Rapid Spin / Recover should work out well for you. Psychic is simply fantastic in the current metagame, as it picks up an absurd number of KOes on unsuspecting Croagunk, can force out Foongus on a predicted switch, and also hits Mienfoo just as hard as Hydro Pump would. Scald compensates for the lack of Thunderbolt, allowing this Staryu to become a pretty solid check for Murkrow. The burn chance is also a nice deterrent to physical attackers. I also agree with Ice Shard over Water Pulse on Snover, as your team doesn't have any problems with Fire-types at all. While Ice Shard is situational, that one game it wins you out of 25 is definitely worth it. This is just a very minor change though. __________________ "Mienfoo is a shitty Pokemon." - blarajan ~CHINCHOUS~

Aug 4th, 2012, 1:20:06 PM	#14
Gone to the beach Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 83 They paved paradise And put up a parking lot	Thanks for all the suggestions guys! I changed all the ev spreads as they are obviously more effecient. I'm trying the chinchou set but I can't find many battles on smogon. I will also try the staryu set when I can. I also changed water pulse to ice shard on Snover because it does come in handy.

Aug 11th, 2012, 2:20:01 AM	#15
Trakyan Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 139	EBeast raised a few good points, powerfull attackers(especialy fire types) can give you issues. Especially ponyta with flame body(which is very viable, i mean, how tempting is it to burn mienfoo just by standing there?) which neuters porygons trace and can criple your murkrow, your only real switch in to this is chinchou which lacks recovery and can be worn down or picked off by a diglett. __________________ Why are so many people choosing the same pokemon, what happened to originality? Not often you see rest in LC or even seedot eigh?