Research Group #3 - Sawsbuck, Articuno, Duosion

[Fun With Knives]

I'll test out some Sawsbuck sets. Not going to compete, though.

[Annoyer]

Articuno @ Leftovers
EVs : 232 HP / 140 SpDef / 136 Spe
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Roost

This is the Tailwind Articuno set that I have been using so far in my midnight laddering and challenges. I've never used Tailwind before so I thought it would be a pretty stupid gimmick, but boy was I wrong. Tailwind is an extremely useful move in NU since many hard-hitters such as Marowak and CB Fraxure can easily break teams since many teams depend on revenge killing to deal with them. Articuno also gets U-turn which means Articuno can get its teammates in quickly without wasting any Tailwind turns. The EV spread allows Articuno to outspeed max speed base 70s and to outspeed base 95 scarfers during Tailwind. Credit to Keiran for this suggestion. It also helps outspeeding opposing Articunos. 232 HP Evs is used so Articuno can switch into SR twice and the rest is put in special bulk to take hits from the likes of Haunter much better. 140 Special Defense EVs is a jump point for Articuno (plus one). Tailwind and U-turn are obligatory moves on this set. I chose Ice Beam as its STAB move, but Hurricane can also be used if you want/need the Flying STAB. The last move I chose is Roost which allows Articuno to use Tailwind multiples times throughout a match which allows for more devastation.

CB Fraxure is one of the best teammates for Articuno. With Aqua Tail and Superpower and especially Mold Breaker, he can easily deny any rocks from the likes of Golem and Probopass by OHKOing through Sturdy. He also makes excellent use of Tailwind since only priority can stop him from his rampage. Marowak can also take advantage of Tailwind while also defeating opposing SRers that Fraxure can't beat such as Regirock. Most spinners in NU can't get the job done (lol Wartortle and Tentacool) so taking out the SRer is the best option left. Although very gimmicky and stupid, Cottonee makes for a decent Tailwind duo since Cottonee can use Memento to bring it's teammates in safely.

This set still probably needs some tweaking in the EVs, so I will be testing different spreads.

Here is the team that I used to donk Keiran and Raseri :). http://pastebin.com/HzM1GeuB

Also, Sawsbuck is weak. LO Sawsbuck can't even OHKO Marowak. smh

[Don Honchkrorleone]

I'll try Sawsbuck and Duosion.

alt in PO: Pirata Alma Negra

[Kaitii]

I'll be trying Sawsbuck and Articuno, possibly Duosion. Dunno where I'd be going with either of them, fiddle around with Saws, maybe try a Rain Dancer paired with Articuno for 100% Hurricane.

I'll be using the names Kaitii and Sweet Dreams on Showdown.

[Keiran]

Running 136 Speed EVs on Tailwind Articuno enables Articuno to outspeed base 95 Choice Scarf users, like Haunter and Sawsbuck, as well as max speed base 70's, such as Samurott.

[Annoyer]

Thanks for the EV spread. I will definitely try it out. Sometimes being slower than Scarfed pokes might be useful in order to bring a poke in safely but being faster would help the majority of the time. Congrats on 300 posts Keiran.

[Shovel]

Everyday I'm Shovelin
That Articuno is hot. Just saying.

I'll prolly try out Synthesis Sawsbuck, but I don't think it will work out all too well.
I would attempt an Agility Articuno, but Im really not familiar with the pokemon in general. More on that :L

PS Alt: Probopass

Edit: Here is the Sawsbuck I've used for a short time

...

---

Sawsbuck @Heat Rock
Heat Rock enables 8 turns of sun, benefiting recovery and ability.
Trait:Chlorophyll
Allows Sawsbuck to outspeed things with minimal investment after setting up sunny day which is helped by Heat Rock.
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spd
The attack is maxed out here so Sawsbuck is able to take many threats, usually ohkoing Altaria (without defensive investment) after Stealth Rocks. Max HP with Synthesis allows for better longevity with Double Edge and possibly taking a hit. Minimal Speed because Chlorophyll. Im thinking about adding more speed in case team support is down..
Adamant Nature
Allows Sawsbuck to take out a lot more opponents in two to one hits.
- Synthesis
Mainly for the challenge. This has helped me with longevity when switching in on things I can easily threaten, seeing as Sawsbuck generally has only has Horn Leech for recovery (or leftovers).
- Double-Edge
I believe this is Sawsbuck's strongest Stab, and it really shows with Adamant 252 atk. This allows Sasbuck to 2hko most not bulky walls. Works well with Synthesis.
- Seed Bomb/Horn Leech
Seed Bomb deals a tiny bit more damage, but Horn Leech gives better Recovery (especially without leftovers). They both work out fine, but I dont know if Seed Bomb deals noticeably more damage..
- Sunny Day
This activates Chlorophyll, and allows Synthesis to give better Hp. Its the basis of the set.

Main Selling Points: Sunny Day, Synthesis, Heat Rock Chlorophyll.

So far I've gotten to 1484 in just an hour, with Sawsbuck being the star player. (Not that PS ever works. I disconnect every other battle due to ultra lag, and the inability to reconnect. But hey, pf :D)

[Fun With Knives]

Originally Posted by Fat Annoyer

Also, Sawsbuck is weak. LO Sawsbuck can't even OHKO Marowak. smh[/CENTER]

Marowak has 110 base defense, among the highest in NU.

Marowak and Sawsbuck are roughly even. Neither one can come in on the other safely, and although Marowak will win if they come in at the same time, it will take a lot of damage, plus Marowak has no Leftovers.

[BROStime]

Ill try Articuno !

alt: 2theMAC!

[Himanattsu]

Ehh. In, trying out Articuno. Name: Shiftry is the Man. It's my IRC name also.

[ChaoticaMortis]

Here's a great RMT made by WhiteDMist showcasing how good Articuno can be: Antiestablishmentarianism (or Articuno's Revenge)

Figured since it puts the bird in the spotlight and effectively gives us a way to use Articuno, it was worth a mention in this thread.

[WhiteDMist]

Originally Posted by Fat ChaoticaMortis

Here's a great RMT made by WhiteDMist showcasing how good Articuno can be: Antiestablishmentarianism (or Articuno's Revenge)

Figured since it puts the bird in the spotlight and effectively gives us a way to use Articuno, it was worth a mention in this thread.

Thanks for the advertising Chaotica! The team was made a couple of weeks before Research Week, so it doesn't have anything that'll give anyone points, but it does show how much potential Articuno has.

[ThisMysteriousGuy]

Duosion
Item: Choice Specs
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 HP, 4 SpDef
IVs: 31/31/31/30/30/1
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Regenerator
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Hidden Power Ground
- Signal Beam
- Trick

This set is quite risky though it does work with proper team support. The idea of this set is to have a teammate set up Trick Room and, preferably, Dual Screens late-game when your opponent only has a couple Pokemon remaining. Then, switch out to Duosion as soon as possible, and sweep the remains of your opponent's team in three turns. Psychic or Psyshock is going to be your main method of attacking, it depends on whether you prefer power and the ability to break physically defensive Pokemon or a bit of less power to break specially defensive Pokemon. Hidden Power Ground and Signal Beam, mentioned earlier by Keiran, who I credit for introducing these moves, helps deal with Steel types, Dark types, Psychic types, and the occasional Skuntank. Trick is there if the last Pokemon is a wall or something and you want to choice-lock it to have a bit of an easier time with it

Choice Specs are the crux of the set. Since you won't really have to deal with damage from something other than attacks in the late-game, and because you might switch out if you can't finish the sweep in three turns, you want to change moves, or you just want a bit more health to survive an attack, Regenerator is the prefered ability. The EV spread is pretty simple, EVs in HP for overall bulk and SpAtk for maximum power. Quiet is the nature used to max out your power and lower your speed to use Trick Room effectively. The IVs give you Hidden Power Ground and it reduces your speed, though 31 Speed IVs make the base power 70 rather than 64.

Trick Room support is an absolute must, and while dual screens support isn't exactly required, it's highly recommended so Duosion can actually switch in on something like Skill Link Cinccino's Tail Slap without fainting. I personally use Gothitelle who is bulky specially and phsyically and can set up both Trick Room and Dual Screens. A Pokemon like Sawk who can eliminate bulkier Normal types and Dark types before the sweep is also recommended.

I'm still testing this set, so I might need to change some things. Some comments would also be appreciated

[Shovel]

Originally Posted by Fat ThisMysteriousGuy

Duosion
Item: Choice Specs
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 HP, 4 SpDef
IVs: 31/31/31/30/30/1
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Regenerator
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Hidden Power Ground
- Signal Beam
- Trick

Choice items make Regenerator worth using, so that's good. I like the usage of trick though; with Choice Specs, Duosion can cripple walls (preferably eviolite walls). Choice locked in Trick Room usually gets sticky. Im not sure what you would want beyond those attacks, except for Hp Fighting which is just as, if not less, useful as Ground. So, I like.


Anyway, Sawsbuck and Exeggutor are so great on sun teams, you dont even. Even with Synthesis, Saws gets HP from using Double Edge. The set I posted previously has been working out with team support <3

[Annoyer]

Marowak has 110 base defense, among the highest in NU.

Marowak and Sawsbuck are roughly even. Neither one can come in on the other safely, and although Marowak will win if they come in at the same time, it will take a lot of damage, plus Marowak has no Leftovers.

It was just a joke. I wasn't saying that Marowak beats Sawsbuck or that Sawsbuck beats Marowak. Marowak not having Leftovers is completely irrelevant. I was just stating that a LO Sawsbuck can't OHKO a barely invested Marowak. 110 defense may be high but it isn't much when it isn't invested.

I believe that Choice Specs Duosion is outclassed by Choice Specs Beheeyem because Beheeyem has higher bulk and can work outside of Trick Room due to Analytic. The only advantage Duosion has is that Duosion is a bit slower and that it has Regenerator but it won't be taking many hits well without Eviolite so Regenerator won't help in situations against strong attackers.

[FLCL]

I don't really have much motivation to participate in this anymore due to me disconnecting a lot on the PS ladder and the server being crappy in general. I think I'll post my comments about Sawsbuck and Duosion based on what I've witnessed in about twenty battles on the ladder. These are the sets I used:


Sawsbuck @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Horn Leech
- Nature Power
- Wild Charge

I used a Choice Scarf Sawsbuck set since my team needed a speedy revenge killer for Gorebyss and friends. It did it's job, but was an extremely weak hitter when it came to neutral attacks. Sawsbuck couldn't even OHKO Cinccino with Horn Leech after a Sap Sipper boost, and it had no hopes of breaking through anything with decent bulk. It was still a nice pivot to all the Bullet Seeds aimed at my Golem, but without a boost it could hardly KO anything. Being locked into a Grass or Normal type move isn't the best thing in the world as well, and once the opponent realizes that Sawsbuck is holding Choice Scarf, it becomes really easy for them to out predict Sawsbuck. I wouldn't suggest using this set unless you really needed a revenge killer, and even then there are much better choices.


Duosion @ Eviolite
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Recover
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Originally Posted by Fat FLCL

Duosion has fallen from grace since people are starting to realize that Musharna's higher bulk (even with Eviolite factored in) and Leftovers is more useful than the ability to beat stall, which is almost non-existent. On top of that, Musharna can now avoid status and support the team with the newly acquired Heal Bell. Duosion till has a niche of being able to set up on the likes on Alomomola and Miltank without being crippled while still being about to hit Dark-types, but honestly I'd probably use Musharna over it in almost every situation. Even the Life Orb Trick Room sets are usually done better by either Musharna or Beheeyem since Duosion is extremely frail without Eviolite and heavy defensive investment. Almost any hit while setting up coupled with priority will take down Offensive Trick Room Duosion.

Sawsbuck could probably be used in well in another fashion, but Duosion really has no chance of getting high usage as long as Musharna is around.

[DTC]

I can't help but think that Duosion is pretty much outclassed if it uses an item besides Eviolite, especially if it's something like Choice Specs. Recoil-less Life Orb is nice, but then Duosion is a lot less bulky than most other Psychic-types in the tier.

So what do you guys think of the 3 Pokemon so far? I haven't tested them that much yet because the PS ladder is derping for me but so far I've been impressed by offensive Articuno with Tailwind over Sub/Hidden Power Ground. Tailwind is a really under-appreciated move that has saved me quite a few times. Marowak has been an interesting partner for Tailwind Articuno. It can kill most Stealth Rock users before they set-up Stealth Rock and set-up Stealth Rock itself. In addition, it can also abuse Articuno's Tailwind.

[Shovel]

Originally Posted by Fat Shovel

Edit: Here is the Sawsbuck I've used for a short time


Sawsbuck @Heat Rock
Heat Rock enables 8 turns of sun, benefiting recovery and ability.
Trait:Chlorophyll
Allows Sawsbuck to outspeed things with minimal investment after setting up sunny day which is helped by Heat Rock.
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spd
The attack is maxed out here so Sawsbuck is able to take many threats, usually ohkoing Altaria (without defensive investment) after Stealth Rocks. Max HP with Synthesis allows for better longevity with Double Edge and possibly taking a hit. Minimal Speed because Chlorophyll. Im thinking about adding more speed in case team support is down..
Adamant Nature
Allows Sawsbuck to take out a lot more opponents in two to one hits.
- Synthesis
Mainly for the challenge. This has helped me with longevity when switching in on things I can easily threaten, seeing as Sawsbuck generally has only has Horn Leech for recovery (or leftovers).
- Double-Edge
I believe this is Sawsbuck's strongest Stab, and it really shows with Adamant 252 atk. This allows Sasbuck to 2hko most not bulky walls. Works well with Synthesis.
- Seed Bomb/Horn Leech
Seed Bomb deals a tiny bit more damage, but Horn Leech gives better Recovery (especially without leftovers). They both work out fine, but I dont know if Seed Bomb deals noticeably more damage.. (Great Stab options)
- Sunny Day
This activates Chlorophyll, and allows Synthesis to give better Hp. Its the basis of the set.

Main Selling Points: Sunny Day, Synthesis, Heat Rock Chlorophyll.

I've been using that to great affect recently, especially because of the rise of Samurott (possibly one of the most feared pokemon for any team). With the proper team support to take out things such as Haunter, this pokemon can wreak havoc.

As for DTC's post about Articuno and Marowak, I like. It's creative and useful, if you can pull it off. Marowak is generally a Trick Room choice, but I think a bulkier version could act well for a switch in with Tailwind, if that's what you are going for. Unless you mean to try to either give up the Tailwind user, or just force a switch.

[Annoyer]

I'm just kind of continuing onto my Tailwind Articuno set. Like DTC said, Tailwind is a very underappreciated move. It can easily shift momentum during those few turns and it creates many quick, fast-paced matches. Tailwind requires a lot of perfect timing and abusing the few turns given to make the best of it. I'd also like to say that Articuno is surprisingly bulky since it can take a lot of attacks, in fact, it only takes 43% from another Specs Articuno's Hurricane. I will be posting more calcs a bit later to show how bulky Articuno is. This bulk allows Articuno to do many things such as setting up Tailwind for its teammates or Roosting off Stealth Rock damage. Pokemon that can destroy Stealth Rock setters such as Rampardos, CB Fraxure, and Marowak are the best teammates for Articuno since they also take advantage of the Tailwind. I've had a lot of fun and success with this team because many teams are not prepared for Tailwind boosted hard-hitting attackers. I don't really know if this set would work, but Regenerator can work on an Eviolite Trick Room set for Duosion (I think someone mentioned this in the Duosion analysis). Will test it out to see if it's worthwhile.

...

---

252 SpAtk Choice Specs Articuno Hurricane vs 232 HP/140 SpDef Articuno (+SpDef) : 41.95% - 49.34%

252 SpAtk Zebstrika (+SpAtk) Thunderbolt vs 232 HP/140 SpDef Articuno (+SpDef) : 44.33% - 52.24%

252 SpAtk Haunter Sludge Bomb vs 232 HP/140 SpDef Articuno (+SpDef) : 24.01% - 28.5%

252 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Gorebyss (+SpAtk) Hydro Pump vs 232 HP/140 SpDef Articuno (+SpDef) : 90.24% - 106.33%

252 SpAtk Life Orb Emboar (+SpAtk) Fire Blast vs 232 HP/140 SpDef Articuno (+SpDef) : 41.95% - 49.08%

[DTC]

erisia will be posting the next Research Group. Not many points to give out this Research Group, but Annoyer got 3 points from the Tailwind Articuno challenge.

Points Leaderboard

---

1. CrashinBoomBang - 21 points
2. Annoyer - 15 points
3. FLCL - 13 points
4. Tribute - 2 points
5. Shovel - 1 point