Therian Landorus (Ubers Analysis) (Skeleton)

[TrollFreak]

First Skelly of a Black and White 2 Pokemon, Innovation by the Troll!

[Overview]


[SET]
name: SubSD
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 192 HP / 144 Atk / 96 Def / 76 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

[SET]
name: Double Dance
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
nature: Adamant
evs: 80 HP / 4 Def / 252 Atk / 172 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Superpower
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

[Other Options]

[Checks and Counters]

[TrollFreak]

Originally Posted by Fat Furai

Very rough outline for you guys to comment on the sets. Will add my stuff after testing this on PS!.

EDIT- Thanks to whoever locked this, makes sense to lock it up until its ready for QC

[shrang]

Oh, these are unlocked now? Great.

I know you're not finished yet, but I seriously see no point using Scarf on Landorus-T at all. I've already been shaking my head at the number of people using that set in OU. The reason is simple, obviously. Why are we using Scarf Landorus-T when you can just use Scarf Landorus? This is even more important in Ubers, since the biggest Speed booster, Rayquaza, outspeeds Landorus-T and not Landorus. Apart from Intimidate (which doesn't REALLY help you against anything significant) and higher base Attack (does this get you any significant KOs?), I see no reason to use Choice Scarf Landorus-T over Landorus-I.

Meanwhile, here are a few of things I can see working with Landorus-T:

[SET]
name: SubSD
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 192 HP / 220 Atk / 96 Def

If Groudon lacks Roar or Fire Blast, you can switch Lando-T INTO Groudon and set up in its face. With the given EVs, Landorus can set up a Sub while Stone Edge or Fire Punch fails to break it due to Intimidate, and you can then set up with SD. The set looks pretty self-explanatory to me.

[SET]
name: Double Dance
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 80 HP / 4 Def / 252 Atk / 172 Spe (or 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe Jolly if you want to outspeed base 90s unboosted or letting you outspeed all Excadrill variants)

Again, this looks pretty self-explanatory. Basically, if you want a Double Dancing Ground-type on your team but you don't want Groudon or Landorus (ie rain team), Lando-T is your man to go to. The given EV spread lets you outspeed Scarf Terrakion at after a Rock Polish, while the 80 HP gives you a Life Orb number. Basically, RP up against offense, SD up against stall, or if you can manage it, RP/SD for total destruction.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Superpower
item: Leftovers
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

I haven't really tested this one, but it seems simple and usable enough. You're hitting 640 Attack with the Choice Band, which would demolish a lot of things. Again, you'd wanting to be use this where Lando-I and Groudon don't give you competition (rain teams), but he should be able to manage finding a niche with this. EVs can be diverted from Speed to bulk if you really want. Obviously, U-turn and Flying-type (ie [Toxic] Spikes immunity) sets this apart from Garchomp and Groudon, and higher attack power outside Sand sets it apart from Landorus-I (and Garchomp). One thing that is really cool, though, is Intimidate. With this, you can sort of check ExtremeKiller Arceus, since you can take an ExtremeSpeed and OHKO back with Superpower (4/0 Arceuses only), while doing ~70% to bulkier ones, which can really make it easier to deal with.

[trickroom]

Choice Scarf set sucks. You are better off using the usual Landorus for a Scarf set with Sand Force and more Speed ( which does matter a lot in Ubers ) Besides what shrang said, Landorus-T does not have any powerful STABs besides Earthquake which is not the best move to be spamming around. It is sort of like a Scarf Groudon so don't use it even when it is immune to Spikes and has U-Turn.

Intimidate is an awesome ability, so a set that abuses it is a must. Shrang's sets look much better than the Scarf set. Not really liking the Band set though, Groudon looks better but maybe the Flying-typing and U-Turn helps a lot.

The thing I like about this Landorus-T is it can help check Zekrom a bit for rain teams thanks to Intimidate and passable bulk. STAB Earthquake from base 145 Attack will hurt many things. It's funny Landorus-T happens to just outrun Zekrom by a little bit.

[TrollFreak]

Ok, I've tested shrang's sets, and I'll say they work much better than Choice Scarf, I'll work on updated the OP right now. If I can find something that Choice Scarf gains that Landorus can't, I'll add that in, but as of now, it'll be OO

[Poppy]

is no speed really a good idea on the first set?

[shrang]

There aren't really many good Speed tiers to hit in between 0 Spe and 220 Spe, so to avoid Speed creep, there'll be no Speed. Obviously, when you use it, you can transfer EVs from Attack to Speed at your leisure.

EDIT: I guess you could put enough to outspeed minimum base 100s. Outspeeding Jirachi may be helpful this metagame, actually. Change the EV spread to 192 HP / 144 Atk / 96 Def / 76 Spe.

[giggity69]

I still think groudon outclasses it as a defensive poke, but the stealth rock pivot set is imo the only one that was consistently useful. It checks a ton of physical shit just with intimidate and sets up rocks easily. Immunity to spikes is also a boon for a pivot and makes intimidate easier to abuse two or more times a game.

[trickroom]

The SubSD set seems very useful when I tried it. Unlike Groudon, it can switch around a lot easier because it is immune to Spikes and after Intimidate, Landorus-T can set up on Ferrothorn without Gyro Ball. Landorus-T can also set up on Roar/Fire Blast less Groudon.

Use shrang's spread, it helps you OHKO Tentacruel before it gets a chance to 2HKO you with Scald.

[Jibaku*]

I would like to discuss the merits of physically defensive Landorus-T. Now this might sound odd at first, considering that it doesn't have recovery or a phazing move, but it has several qualities that would make it pretty decent at the job. Let's compare it with other the Ground-type physical walls in Ubers (Groudon, Hippowdon, Ground Arceus)

Universal Advantages
- Ground immunity, thus avoiding the ever so dangerous Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and powerful Earthquakes from Excadrill, Garchomp, and Groudon
- Fighting resistance. Useful for Terrakion and Blaziken (in rain).
- Intimidate can offer team utility and give it more physical resistance against not-very-boosted enemies. Due to its Spikes and Toxic Spikes immunity, coupled with Stealth Rock neutrality, it can pivot switch extremely well.

Notable Other Advantages over the others, individually
- Groudon: Doesn't change the weather, making it more suited for teams that prefer to keep its weather up
- Hippowdon: Same deal (unless you're using Sand Force Hippo?). Hippo also has noticeably less power than it does.
- Ground Arceus: Frees up the Arceus slot for another forme.

Several drawbacks:
- 89/80 HP/SDef isn't quite spectacular and stuff can hurt it badly there.
- 4x weakness to Ice means it might have a tricky time against Tyranitar, who may or may not have the move. In general, random Ice moves can catch it by surprise and do a lot of damage. Also means that it can't set up SR against Lugia.


The set in question is

Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Toxic / Swords Dance / U-turn

Other options include putting some Speed EVs, more SDef, HP Ice for more damage to Groudon and Gliscor,

I don't really have the patience to work out a list of damage calcs, so I will leave this one calc:

Jolly +0 (Intimidate) DDRay LO Outrage vs Phys. def Landorus-T: 58%-68%.

[TrollFreak]

Not working on this anymore (look at my LoA post to tell why) so someone can move this