Entirely New to VGC - Looking to Get Started.

[Wiggins]

Hey everyone, recently I bought a copy of Pokemon Black, and whilst playing it I was curious as to whether or not there was anything more to the video games, and that's when I discovered VGC; it looked very intriguing and a lot of fun to play, and so I've decided to participate in next years event having just missed out on this year. So I figured I'd look into what makes a strong competitive team, but it turns out there is a lot to take into consideration in terms of IV's, EV's, held items, and even the Pokemon's nature. It's all quite a lot to take in at once, and I would greatly appreciate any tips or help into designing a decent team, many thanks.

Also, I apologise if I have posted in the wrong section, I'm new to Smogon, and Pokemon VCG all together.

Many thanks!

Wiggins.

[Solace*]

Once the VGC 13 rules come out, we'll be re-opening Battling 202, which is VGC tutoring. You can ask any questions to the tutors there, so hopefully that'll help you out. At this point, VGC 12 is practically done since it's Worlds weekend, so you just have to wait around a little bit for the new rules. :)

[Project_Mars]

How much do you know about double battles in general? If you haven't done any, then you could try getting a feel for how they run. Yes the format hasn't been decided yet, but if you haven't tried it yet, then you probably should first since the tactics for a double battle vary a bit from single battles.

[Wiggins]

Obviously the initial games of Pokemon show the basic principles of Tag Battles, and watching vigorous amounts of VGC event videos on YouTube, aside from the obvious tactics such as weather based teams, I can see the tricks of Tag such as in Rain Dance teams with tricks as Water Absorb and Surf, Fake Out to disrupt an opponents play, or even something as simple as Protect to potentially block both opposing attacks; it's this sort of team synergy as well as the atmosphere at these events that got me interested.

So I'm guessing I couldn't even build a simple team of Good Stuffs?

[Project_Mars]

Originally Posted by Fat Wiggins

Obviously the initial games of Pokemon show the basic principles of Tag Battles, and watching vigorous amounts of VGC event videos on YouTube, aside from the obvious tactics such as weather based teams, I can see the tricks of Tag such as in Rain Dance teams with tricks as Water Absorb and Surf, Fake Out to disrupt an opponents play, or even something as simple as Protect to potentially block both opposing attacks; it's this sort of team synergy as well as the atmosphere at these events that got me interested.

So I'm guessing I couldn't even build a simple team of Good Stuffs?

No offense intended, I wasn't sure how much you did or didn't know about competitive battling, but it does seem like you have some experience with it.

[Wiggins]

Originally Posted by Fat Project_Mars

No offense intended, I wasn't sure how much you did or didn't know about competitive battling, but it does seem like you have some experience with it.

I wouldn't say experience, as much as I have observed the VGC for a brief period and found what are the favourites, but I am yet to understand as to why people make their choices and why these Pokemon are being used.

Like I mentioned up above, I am aware of EV's, but I have no clue as to what IV's are, and why the nature of the Pokemon is so important.

No offence taken good sir, at least you're willing to help a new player. :)

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by Fat Wiggins

I wouldn't say experience, as much as I have observed the VGC for a brief period and found what are the favourites, but I am yet to understand as to why people make their choices and why these Pokemon are being used.

Like I mentioned up above, I am aware of EV's, but I have no clue as to what IV's are, and why the nature of the Pokemon is so important.

No offence taken good sir, at least you're willing to help a new player. :)

IVs = Individual Values in any given stat. All Pokés have them and they range from 0-31.

Natures affect certain stats, in most cases. For instance, an Adamant nature gives a bonus to the Attack stat and a penalty to Special Attack. The list of natures and their affects can be found here.

You also need to be aware of each Pokémon's potential Abilities. There will be, at most, three available abilities to any given Pokémon.

The guys at Smogon have done an amazing job nailing down basic strategy and thoughts behind how certain Pokémon are best at performing in the VGC metagame. It's a great place to at least get ideas rolling for EV spreads and Movesets. The most important Pokémon to the metagame can be found here.

Keep in mind that some of the information on movesets, ev/iv spreads, and even the roll which some Pokés perform may not be the same come 2013's VGC. We'll know by tonight. Should anyways.

Hope that basic info helped some.

[Project_Mars]

Originally Posted by Fat Wiggins

I wouldn't say experience, as much as I have observed the VGC for a brief period and found what are the favourites, but I am yet to understand as to why people make their choices and why these Pokemon are being used.

Heretic pretty much hit the nail on the head for most of your questions. As for the synergy thing, there's a few basic strategies that, more or less, will be viable no matter what format is picked. You of course have Goodstuff teams and weather teams (However rumors say that VGC13 will use just the Unova dex, so Rain and Hail will lose their auto starters), but Trick Room and Tailwind are used too.

Once someone knows what kind of team they want to run, they then pick which pokemon they want to use based on what it can do. For example, Hitmontop is a pokemon that excels in a doubles format because it has two nice abilities (Intimidate and Technician) and a few good priority moves. Gastrodon is still a solid choice for the same reason it's a nice choice in OU: It absorbs water attacks and has a typing that most rain pokemon have trouble with and allows it to not take sandstorm damage. It also has the added fact that it's slower, meaning it can do well on a trick room team. And finally as an example, there's the one I dislike the most: Amoongus. It's Bulky and slow, with a moveset that makes it perfect for trick room. It commonly uses Rage Powder to allow its partner to set up Trick Room, then uses Spore to put all your pokemon to sleep due to it now being able to move faster.

Essentially the trick to team building is to look for pokemon that both cover a lot of threats, mostly individual pokemon, but some team types have a decent counter you can use, while also being able to make sure your team doesn't have too many pokemon that are weak to the same type (A lesson i found out the hard way when i noticed too late that a team i entered a wi-fi tourny with had half the members weak against ice, which became an issue.)

[Wiggins]

Great to know, thanks again for the help, another question I have is, does it matter as to what level you catch a Pokemon at? For instance, if you were to work toward a Krookodile, should you capture a level 15-17 Sandile, or could you just capture a 29-31 Krokorok? I only ask because of such factors as EV's and IV's, and potential bonuses in gaining stats. Many thanks.

[voodoo pimp]

Originally Posted by Fat Wiggins

Great to know, thanks again for the help, another question I have is, does it matter as to what level you catch a Pokemon at? For instance, if you were to work toward a Krookodile, should you capture a level 15-17 Sandile, or could you just capture a 29-31 Krokorok? I only ask because of such factors as EV's and IV's, and potential bonuses in gaining stats. Many thanks.

EVs and IVs are entirely separate from level. It doesn't matter what level you initially catch it at (though if you're not RNGing, you're much more likely to get good IVs through breeding).

[Whimsiboss]

Originally Posted by Fat Wiggins

Great to know, thanks again for the help, another question I have is, does it matter as to what level you catch a Pokemon at? For instance, if you were to work toward a Krookodile, should you capture a level 15-17 Sandile, or could you just capture a 29-31 Krokorok? I only ask because of such factors as EV's and IV's, and potential bonuses in gaining stats. Many thanks.

Hi wiggins i'm really new to vgc to, but i learned that it is better to breed pokemon than just catch them it makes things much easier and it allows you to give them egg moves. oops someone already told you that but ya ur fine if you are rng'ing

[Wiggins]

I was just having a quick glance at the whole IV's and how to alter them to get shiny/good Pokemon, isn't that illegal? It seems unfair.

So I'm guessing take a Sandile, breed it, and take the baby Pokemon and level it from scratch right? I should do that with all non-legendary Pokemon?

[Project_Mars]

There's programs that once you calibrate will tell you how to find Pokemon with the IVs you want, along with them being shiny, it's known as RNGing. Also in the "ask a simple question" thread there is a link to where you can find people giving away Pokemon that they've RNG'd, including those with egg moves that will be useful.

Which brings me to why, yes, you want to raise non-legendary Pokemon from eggs. Some egg moves are going to be ones you really want (I.e. heat wave on chandelure) and breeding allows you to get them. In addition, if you give one of the parent Pokemon an everstone when you put them into the day care, chances of the offspring having the same nature increase dramatically. The only variable would be ability, but considering it's a very good chance to get the nature right that way, you can just go through a few eggs until you get the right one.

Another thing to do is save right before you get said egg (or fight a legendary, or get an event Pokemon (it's a bit different for roaming Pokemon though: you have to do this before you start the event that makes 'em roam around.) and if you don't get what you want, you can turn off the power, turn it back on and try again. It will be different.

[voodoo pimp]

Originally Posted by Fat Wiggins

I was just having a quick glance at the whole IV's and how to alter them to get shiny/good Pokemon, isn't that illegal? It seems unfair.

With RNG you aren't actually altering anything, just controlling the variables that determine what the RNG produces. It uses entirely in-game means to generate the Pokémon (non-RNG'd Pokémon are generated by the exact same processes, just without control on your part), and Nintendo explicitly allows it in official tournaments. And there's really nothing unfair about it. Most players have the ability to do it, and those that can't can get them from others (example: this thread). Personally, I think it would be more unfair if one player had stronger Pokémon just because they had more free time to breed the long way.

[PkmRngrBrad]

I think RNG'ing is actually a bit of an equalizer. I am still learning how to do it, but anyone who wants to, can learn it and it takes the "random luck" of what you get to start with and puts everyone on the same field. If you and a friend both catch a wild charmander, put in the exact amount of time and work to get it to learn the moves you want, and to level it up, its not fair that his Charizards stats are dramatically better based off of the time variables that were decided the second you encountered it in the wild.

With RNG, its not like a cheat with a action replay where its a lazy way to beat someone, it takes work, dedication, time and quite a bit of trial and error to fully understand what your doing, what your manipulating, and what the results will be. And thats just to get the damn thing, you still have to do the work of everyone else of grinding and leveling it up!

[Wiggins]

I would most definitely be one of those in the "Unable to alter IV's" category. So once I am able to link my DS with the Wifi, I shall request a competitive team, and hopefully be ready for any events in 2013. I would also just like to battle some chaps and get a stronger feel for Team Battles, as well as an understanding of team synergy, and what my preferences are in terms of team building.

It's quite a lot to take in at once, so I think the term 'Baby Steps' is appropriate. All the information you've given will eventually make complete sense, and I can be a much more independent player, I understand what all these terms mean, but it's still somewhat a bit foggy haha..

Once again, thanks for being so patient and helping me out guys, I look forward to my first VGC event, and being part of the atmosphere, hoping to meet some of the Smogon community there, which I'm guessing shouldn't be too hard haha.

[PkmRngrBrad]

I was in the same boat, and you are in the exact place you should be. Ive got the site book marked as SOS, the Sages of Smogon. If you take the steps to try and find the answer yourself, but cant, and ask in the proper place in a respectful manner, then you will get all the help you can handle. Its intimidating at times, but totally worth it. This site has completely made me able to enjoy SO much more of the games I already loved, and they really keep it classy. Its a great place to learn and at 25 years old, I am really enthusiastic about this community.

[Ravix]

<.<

>.>

Hey kid...

Want to join Team Rocket?

[Wiggins]

Originally Posted by Fat PkmRngrBrad

I was in the same boat, and you are in the exact place you should be. Ive got the site book marked as SOS, the Sages of Smogon. If you take the steps to try and find the answer yourself, but cant, and ask in the proper place in a respectful manner, then you will get all the help you can handle. Its intimidating at times, but totally worth it. This site has completely made me able to enjoy SO much more of the games I already loved, and they really keep it classy. Its a great place to learn and at 25 years old, I am really enthusiastic about this community.

Well that's a relief, for this upcoming VGC, I think it will honestly be a case of mimicing some other player's team, and hoping it does well haha, unless I gain a much stronger understanding before the VGC that is..

<.<

>.>

Hey kid...

Want to join Team Rocket?

Lulz. :3

[Chenkovsky]

don't get to strung up on IVs, they help, but there are plenty of trade threads, can you ev train?

[Crazyfish]

Originally Posted by Fat Ravix

<.<

>.>

Hey kid...

Want to join Team Rocket?

Eff Team Rocket! They stole my Slowbro!!!!