Dragonite Cleanup [QC: 0/3]

[Jimera0]

Obviously this is an important (and freaking huge) analysis. Make sure to point out anything that I might have missed that needs changing!



Old Analysis in its entirety

Introduction toUpdate on the process:
Alright, so I got all these skeletons written up and ready to go through QC. See this as a final check to make sure we have everything right before I start writing.

As for WHEN I start writing, I'm not sure that it should all be done in one go after all. I think maybe a discussion with GP and QC in the IRC might be a good idea to figure out how to do this because quite frankly I don't know if I can handle writing all this up in one go without going insane. If we could do one or two sections at a time instead it'd go a long way towards making this easier to get through for me and probably for everyone else.

Anyway, here's what I've got.

[Overview]

• Dragonite has risen from the shadow of its competitors this generation due to the gift of Multiscale.
• Multiscale has made Dragonite one of the most versatile threats in the metagame and is a major threat offensively and defensively.
• Dragonite fits the OU metagame like a glove, being able to perform very well on almost any sort of team due to its vast movepool and well distributed stats
• Residual damage is a constant limiter on Dragonite’s effectiveness because it breaks Multiscale and an SR weakness serves to limit its potential
• Slightly below average speed serves to hold it back from true dominance, but Multiscale allows it to make up for this flaw somewhat.
• New threats make Dragonite’s job harder recently than it was before, especially Genesect, who resists Dragonite’s main STAB and threatens constantly with a quick and powerful Ice Beam.

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Outrage / Dragon Claw
move 3: Fire Punch
move 4: ExtremeSpeed / Earthquake / Roost
item: Lum Berry / Leftovers
ability: Multiscale
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• While overlooked in favor of its faster brethren in past generations Multiscale and a slightly slower metagame have shifted the balance to Dragonite being the dragon dancer of choice for many teams.
• Multiscale makes setting up much easier for Dragonite than for other dragons
• Outrage 2HKO’s offensive Heatran at +1, meaning with Fire Punch it gets almost perfect coverage. Dragon Claw can be used instead to allow Dragonite to attack strongly without locking itself into a move instead.
• Earthquake allows Dragonite to take out some threats like Tentacruel, Jirachi in Rain and Heatran without being locked into Outrage, while Extreme Speed can frequently preserve a sweep against many revenge killers. Roost can be used to gain additional dragon dance boosts or just to increase longevity.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• A Bulkier spread of 252 HP / 44 Att / 212 Spe can be used to attempt to obtain more than one Dragon Dance before sweeping. In this case Roost and Dragon Claw are all recommended to give Dragonite the time it needs to set up. However, this set is less effective now with so many powerful and fast threats that easily make a meal of it despite the added bulk.
• Life orb can be used but breaks Multiscale. It does make Dragonite much harder to wall though, OHKOing Vaporeon and Jellicents that could otherwise cripple or phaze it.
• Waterfall is more useful than Fire Punch on Rain Teams
• Other potential coverage moves include Brick Break, which is weak but comes with no drawbacks and good coverage, Superpower, which is more powerful but weakens Dragonite, Fire Blast, which allows Dragonite to break through Skarmory more easily and Ice punch which deals with Landorus-T, Gliscor and opposing Dragonite more easily. In most circumstances you’re better off with Earthquake and Fire Punch though.
• EVs are simple, but the choice between Adamant and Jolly determines what beats you and what does not. Adamant prevents your sweep from being brought to a halt by walls and makes Extreme Speed more powerful, but you miss out on Timid Scarf Politoed and Timid Jolteon at +1, Jolly Breloom when unboosted and Scarf Terrakion and Scarf Latios at +2.
• Rapid Spin support almost a must for Dragonite in order to maintain multiscale. Appreciates weather support to boost Fire Punch or Waterfall and to remove Sandstorm. Like Stealth Rock on the opponent’s side like every other sweeper ever. Partners well with Rotom-W, who is able to switch into Dragonite’s defensive checks with ease and Volt-Switch back out when it’s grass type checks switch in. Special mention of Magnezone for trapping steels that try to block Dragonite and having perfect type synergy with it.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Outrage
move 2: ExtremeSpeed
move 3: Fire Punch / Waterfall
move 4: Earthquake / Superpower
item: Choice Band
ability: Multiscale
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP

[SET COMMENTS]

• With a Choice Band Dragonite makes a very dangerous hit and run attacker, with an Extreme Speed to rival Scizor’s Bullet Punch.
• Outrage is the primary attacking move on this set, smashing everything that doesn’t resist it for massive damage .
• Extreme Speed is one of the main draws of this set, picking off many Pokemon that don’t resist it once they’ve been weakened.
• Fire Punch get great coverage alongside Outrage, though in rain Waterfall is a better option in most circumstances.
• Earthquake rounds out the coverage against Heatran and Steels under rain, though Superpower can be used to much the same extent if you need more power against Tyranitar, Blissey and Chansey, though the attack and defense drops basically necessitate a switch after being used.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• EVs standard physical attacking spread, with Adamant to secure many vital KOs. Jolly can be run to outrun Timid Heatran but has little use outside of that.
• Brick Break and Aqua tail can be used over Superpower and Waterfall respectively, but the drop in power from Superpower when using Brick Break is dramatic and Waterfall has perfect accuracy while securing the same KOs. Dragon claw is a final option when you don’t want to lock yourself into Outrage, since offensive Heatran is 2HKO’d by Outrage anyway meaning EQ or Superpower might not be needed, but Dragon Claw lacks the power needed to get the KOs Outrage gets.
• Removing SR is vital for CB Dragonite to function due to its hit and run nature. Forretress can both lay hazards and spin them away for Dragonite while taking dragon type attacks aimed at it, while Starmie can spin them away and deal with many spinblockers, as well as threaten many of Dragonite’s checks.
• Likes paralysis support as well due to Dragonite’s disappointing speed, notable partners in this regard include Jirachi for laying rocks, wish, paralysis support and general defensive synergy, Chansey for similar reasons. Celebi can also paralyze and can heal Dragonite’s status with Heal Bell, but lacks the defensive synergy the others have.
• Pairs well with Pokemon that can utilize the holes Dragonite punches such as Scizor, Landorus and Terrakion.

[SET]
name: Substitute + Dragon Dance
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Dragon Dance
move 3: Dragon Claw
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
ability: Multiscale
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• 252 HP / 80 SpD / 176 Spe Jolly goes to AC now, for setting up on stuff like scarf Politoed and Jolteon.
• New spread and nature allows Dragonite to set up on Sp.Def Jirachi while still maintaining enough speed for Starmie at +1.
• Rest will remain mostly unchanged.

[SET]
name: Multiscale Shuffler
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Thunder Wave / Flamethrower
move 3: Roost
move 4: Dragon Tail
ability: Multiscale
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

• This set aims to shuffle the opponents team to rack up hazard and dragon tail damage, while spreading paralysis or weakening steel type switch-ins. Is also an amazing general wall with special bulk exceeding Blissey’s with Multiscale intact.
• Functions best on teams built around hazard stall and residual damage and is not always a good general phazer, though Multiscale does allow it to phase almost anything not behind a substitute in a pinch.
• The process is to come in on a resisted or ineffective move, set up a substitute and start stalling until Dragonite gets a chance to use Dragon Tail. Thunder Wave is usually what allows that chance, but if paralysis support is provided Dragonite can run Flamethrower to deal with steel types that would try to absorb the shuffling damage, with Skarmory and Ferrothorn being top of the list, Skarmory for its access to recovery and Ferrothorn because of Iron Barbs hurting Dragonite when it connects with Dragon Tail.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• The given EVs maximize Special bulk to ensure Dragonite walls the largest number of Pokemon possible, since most Ice-type attacks are special.
• Fire Blast can be used over Flamethrower for extra power and with 80 EVs put into SpA from HP it can 2HKO even the most specially bulky Skarmory. However, in most cases the extra PP from Flamethrower is more useful on such a stallish Pokemon.
• Dragonite greatly appreciates SR being removed as usual, and if Dragonite is your only phazer it is a must to keep multiscale intact. Forretress can both spin and lay hazards for Dragonite to abuse, while having pretty good synergy. Starmie can also spin and can often sweep teams weakened by Dragonite’s shuffling and paralyzing with its amazing coverage. Dragonite often invites hazards to be set up against it, only increasing the need for a spinner.
• This Dragonite needs hazards to make the most of the switches it causes with Dragon Tail and paralysis, so having a good hazard layer is a must. Ferrothorn is a particularly good partner with great defensive synergy and is able to dish out all kinds of residual damage with hazards, Leech seed and Iron barbs. Jirachi is also notworth, being able to set rocks and pass wishes to Dragonite, making switching in easier, while having great synergy defensively with it.
• Dragonite appreciates wish and heal bell in general for when dragonite takes damage or gets statused. Jirachi has already been mentioned but Blissey and Chansey work very well in this regard too.
• If Thunder Wave is being used something to trap and eliminate Skarmory, Ferrorthorn and other steels is useful. Magnezone and Gothitelle can flat out trap these threats, making them good partners.
• If Flamethrower of Fire Blast is being used paralysis support is very useful. Again, Jirachi is great in this regard but Celebi, Chansey, Blissey and Ferrothorn can all fill this role as well.
• Finally, a spinblocker is useful to prevent the hazards Dragonite needs from getting spun away. Gengar can spinblock almost any spinner as can Jellicent. Gengar provides some offensive presence should you need it while Jellicent can burn opponents and just wall in general.
• Cloyster and Mamoswine win almost 100% of the time against Dragonite, so having a Pokemon that can beat them reliably is fairly important. Ferrothorn usually does a good job at this, but a bulky water that can take a Rock Blast from Cloyster might be a good investment. Rotom-W can beat both these opponents and has overall great type-synergy with Dragonite.

[SET]
name: Rain Mixed Attacker
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Aqua Tail / Superpower
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Extreme Speed / Earthquake / Roost
ability: Multiscale
item: Life Orb
nature: Mild
evs: 76 Atk / 252 SpA / 180 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• Dragonite becomes a powerful mixed attacker in the rain due to the perfect accuracy it gains with Hurricane and Thunder. Dragonite also covers the common grass weaknesses of many Rain team members without being weak to electric attacks.
• Dragonite’s primary job is to blast holes in the opposing team with its spectacular mixed coverage, but can also help patch up a few common weaknesses rain teams have.
• Hurricane becomes Dragonite’s primary STAB with 100% accuracy in the rain, dealing great damage with tremendous neutral coverage in and of itself.
• Aqua Tail gains Pseudo STAB in the rain and hits most targets that try to resist Hurricane for at least a 2HKO. Superpower is another option that hits Tyranitar and the pink blobs harder, but lowers stats.
• Thunder also gains 100% accuracy in the rain and deals super-effective damage to many Pokemon that rain teams struggle with such as Tentacruel and Tornadus-T, as well making Dragonite a decent lure for Skarmory. The 30% paralysis chance is very useful too and makes the Lati@s twins think twice about switching in.
• Final slot is a bit of a tossup and won’t be used much. ES provides Dragonite with a decently powerful priority move for utility, while Earthquake hits things Aqua Tail and Superpower can’t while also giving Dragonite an effective option against Sun teams which are challenging for rain teams otherwise. Roost is useful for simply keeping Dragonite in business longer, but Dragonite will struggle to find opportunities to use it without defensive investment.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• The Speed EVs are tweaked to outspeed Timid Magnezone, with everything else put into SpA and the leftovers into Attack, since Dragonite will be primarily using its Special Attacks.
• Outrage is an option in the final slot for a more powerful physical move for things like Chansey, Gastrodon and Blissey, but its side effect is offputting and usually leads to Dragonite’s imminent doom and the coverage is largely redundant.
• Brick Break is an option over Superpower but the loss in power is dramatic and generally not worth it. Tailwind can be used in the last slot to gain a surprise advantage for Dragonite and its teammates on the switch, but requires prediction to set up and the short duration is a bummer.
• Dragonite loves having rapid spin support, this set especially due to its vulnerability to residual damage and hit and run nature. Starmie makes a great teammate in this regard, powerfully abusing rain itself and checking a lot of Dragonite’s checks such as Latios, Mamoswine, Scizor and Thundurus-T.
• Dragonite pairs well with Pokemon that need specific Pokemon removed in order to sweep such as Toxicroak, Latios, Landorus and Scizor, since Dragonite can easily plow through at least one of their checks.
• Dragonite is likely to be forced out often due to its low speed, so Pokemon that synergize well with Dragonite such as Forretress, Ferrothorn and Jirachi make good teammates for switching into attacks aimed at Dragonite.
• Dragonite also loves paralysis support being somewhat on the slow side. Jirachi, Chansey and Celebi can all do this for Dragonite, with the later two also having good defensive synergy with Dragonite as well.

[SET]
name: Tank (Rain)
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Thunder
move 3: Dragon Tail
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
ability: Multiscale
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

• Where the last set aims to break holes, this set aims to patch up common weakness in rain teams with its useful resistances and multiscale.
• Hurricane is Dragonite’s primary STAB and hits very hard even without any investment.
• Thunder gets decent coverage with Hurricane, and its paralysis chance is very useful. Also prevents Jellicent, Vaporeon and Tentacruel from having their way with Dragonite.
• Dragon Tail prevents things from setting up on Dragonite and allows it to check a fair number of set up Pokemon, as well as simple shuffling.
• Roost is key for keeping Dragonite in good health and restoring Multiscale. Don’t leave home without it.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• EVs given provide Dragonite with the most Special Bulk possible to maximize Dragonite’s walling potential.
• Dragonite can invest in Special attack to better take on foes like Ferrothorn and Sub-CM Jirachi, but is usually better off investing fully in bulk so it can function better as a pivot.
• Substitute is an option over Thunder to make for a rain based version of the parashuffler set and to protect against status, but the coverage and paralysis from Thunder is sorely missed.
• Functions best on balanced teams as part of a defensive core with Pokemon like Jirachi, Chansey and Skarmory.
• As Dragonite is very vulnerable to status it greatly appreciates clerical support from the likes of Chansey and Celebi. Similarly, Wish support from Bilssey, Chansey and Jirachi can aid greatly in keeping Multiscale intact and works well with Dragonite’s synergy with those Pokemon.

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Roost
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Multiscale
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Likely to just reuse the stuff already onsite since I can’t write from experience on this one. Only change is moving those useless 12 Spe EVs to more useful places. If anyone has any other input, make it now.

[OTHER OPTIONS]

• Dragonite has a slew of other movepool options, such as Agility, Heal Bell and Haze, Aqua Jet, Icy Wind and Dragon Rush. Most of these are outclassed by other moves (Agility, Aqua Jet, Dragon Rush, Haze) though. Heal Bell is incompatible with Multiscale even in BW2, and Icy wind is just gimmicky.
• Dragonite can also run a very effective mixed set with Fire Blast, Draco Meteor and Superpower outside of rain, but aside from Extreme Speed and simple surprise factor it has very little over Salamence and Hydreigon, and it means you’re not using Dragonite for something else even more threatening. If you find yourself needing its tiny niche though, you should use the spread from the Mixed Rain set, which works just as well outside of rain.

[CHECKS AND CONTERS]

• No hard counters due to diversity of Dragonite’s sets, but lots of checks.
• Choice Scarf Genesect, Terrakion, Landorus-T and I, Kyurem Rotom-W Salamence and even Thundurus-T can all outspeed and OHKO Dragonite once multiscale is broken even after a dragon dance. Mamoswine, Scizor and Abomasnow also threaten with Priority.
• Genesect is particularly dangerous because it can switch into a +1 outrage and survive, and is only scared of Fire Punch while being able to OHKO with Ice Beam assuming Multiscale is broken.
• Bulky Pokemon that can take an outrage such as Jirachi, Heatran, Skarmory, Hippowodon, Ferrothorn and Gliscor can all beat some physical Dragonite sets, though they must look out for appropriate coverage moves.
• Slowbro and Tangrowth make particularly good switch ins due to Regenerator, since outside of Mixed and special sets Dragonite cannot OHKO them, and if Dragonite strikes with an effective coverage move they can then switch out to a resist and be only slightly worse off thanks to Regenerator.
• The rarely seen Porygon2 is almost a perfect counter, and defensive Cloyster can take out any physical dragonite. However they both must look out for predicted Superpower’s especially if not at full health.

[jc104]

Ice Punch is pretty awful, and should be mentioned in OO, if that.

Anyway, I was hoping that you might have considered removing or combining some of the many sets. Could you at least bring the sets (not the comments) out of the hide tags so we can see them all?

[Jimera0]

Originally Posted by Fat jc104

Ice Punch is pretty awful, and should be mentioned in OO, if that.

Anyway, I was hoping that you might have considered removing or combining some of the many sets. Could you at least bring the sets (not the comments) out of the hide tags so we can see them all?

Well I put them in the hide tags simply because there is so damn much that if I unhid it all well... the length of the main post is already long, imagine it being around 6x that long.

As for Ice Punch, I'm not convinced that it's awful, and it might have some use. It does, for example, allow Dragonite to beat Gliscor 1 on 1 outside of rain, something it couldn't do before. It also hits Landorus-T, who is shaping up to be a pretty formidable check. I think it at least deserves a look before being dismissed out of hand.

As for combining or removing sets, we can talk about that. This was just a preliminary stage looking to see what's what. I'm already considering both the "tank" sets for removal pending testing, since they kind of overlap with other sets and face a lot of new obstacles with the newly released threats. I didn't want to jump to conclusions and start chopping sets left and right, right off the bat though.

As for combining, I initially considered combining stuff like offensive and defensive dragon dance together but I'm realizing now that that will be a lot harder to do than first anticipated. The problem is that if we want to avoid incredibly bloated and indistinct sets we'd basically have to cut a massive amount of content. And the problem with doing that is that some of the content that'd have to get cut is important stuff.

For example, let's try combining the defensive dragon dance and Sub dragon dance set. First off, now we have 3 usable ev spreads but one of them is tailored to substitute. The other two spreads don't work nearly as well as the one that is tailored, but if we want to avoid having an extra paragraph describing that spread we have to cut it. If we don't, that's an extra paragraph. Substitute also gives a whole new set of counters and checks, and requires an explanation on how to use it properly since if you don't use it right it won't work for you. Then there's the question of how to integrate this all so it isn't obvious to all who read it that it's two sets sandwhiched together.

I honestly think it might be neater to completely avoid combining these sets. I think the ones we'd have the most luck combining would be the rain sets, but other than that I don't see HOW we could combine any of these properly. We'd end up with either a set lacking half the vital information or a confusing monstrosity of the set that tries to cover too many options.

[jc104]

After a very umm...heated discussion on IRC, we only managed to decide a couple of things:

- Parashuffler should probably be removed and sent to OO. Too much support is required for it to work consistently. edit: apparently we didn't decide this fully. Disregard for now.

- BulkyDD is really not a great set and can be sent to AC of the offensive DD set.

- Some people think the rain mixed set should be different, while some others don't.

IMO, it should be

80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe (or whatever it is that lets you outrun Adamant Breloom)
Mild, Multiscale, Life Orb
Hurricane | Superpower / Aqua Tail | Thunder | Roost

- CB should probably be max Speed Adamant.

[Delta 2777]

As a former QC member I would like to say that Parashuffler should NOT! be moved to Other Options! It is a very good set that really takes advantage of Dragonite's bulk while spreading status and abusing entry hazards at the same time. This thing has ripped apart teams of mine several times because it is so easy for it to set up a substitute on a paralyzed attacker and proceed to phaze it out without taking more than a quarter of its health in damage, which it can easily Roost off later.

[ace combat]

Wow there is a lot going on with this thread, anyways I want to put in my thoughts since this is really such a huge project to undertake. (You must be really dedicated)

Overview: I would probably take out the first paragraph because all that tells about is Dragonite's past, and while I think that it was pertinent while the BW metagame was new, as we reach the middle to latter stages of the BW metagame I feel as if it is not as important, and really does not tell too much about Dragonite. I would put more emphasis on Dragonite being a very hard hitter while being bulky due to multiscale. I would probably take out the part that the metagame is more focused on bulk, because with all the new releases (a big part due to Tornadus-T), the metagame really has sped up. I really would stick to what Dragonite is good at; surviving almost any initial hit and then hitting hard. I think that this is fair to say because there are less defensive Dragonite's that do not invest in attack than there was before.

Offensive Dragon Dance: I probably would only give Ice Punch that smallest of mentions at the most in AC. The main problem with it is that it is really redundant with Dragonite’s main attack, and Kyurem proves that Ice and Dragon really are not the best coverage. It is only useful for pokes that are 4x weak to it as otherwise Outrage will be hitting harder. Go ahead and remove any Chandelure mentions as that is not relavant. When mentioning a Jolly Nature I would probably only mention Terrakion because Latios has a thirty-one percent chance of dying to a +2 Extremespeed while Starmie has a 87.5% chance of dying after one round of Stealth Rock.

Bulky Dragon Dance: I know that this is more of the second step of what your doing but I would move this set below Substitute+Dragon Dance because it seems much less solid in the current metagame. I would probably get more opinions on this set because I only ever played this set before Excadrill was banned, and yes, I can confirm that this set has not changed since before his ban.

Choice Band: I really would not mention Ice Punch for this set because this set is really doing two things, revenge killing with Extremespeed and hitting had with Outrage. Gliscor really is not the premier physical wall that it used to be anyway because of the rise in rain usage.

Substitute+Dragon Dance: I would keep this set as it is because this is really a more modern write-up and not much has changed in the BW metagame that would affect it.

Parashuffler: I agree with you that it seems pretty good as it is.

Mixed Attacker (Rain), Tank (Rain), Classic MixNite: I really am not experienced enough with these sets to give my opinion on them. (Really you can’t expect someone to try all of the Dragonite sets without setting out to do so)

Tank: I agree with you to question its viability. This set really is outclassed by some of the other sets and at some point you need to ask yourself that even though it is usable, is it simply due to Dragonite’s awesomeness through multiscale? Multiscale makes many sets of Dragonite useable but you should never use because they are outclassed by a different set.

Other Options: I would just add a small mention that even though Dragonite has a fantastic movepool, there are just things that you should never use because they are outclassed by another set.

Checks and Counters: Agree with all of the changes happening here.

I think that you got pretty much every thing that you need here, and good luck to this enormous undertaking.

[Anikrahman1995]

Ctrl+F Kyurem(Scarf), 0 results in the analysis. Its missing in the checks and counters. It is notable for being able to KO Dragonite through multiscale while not even taking much from boosted extremespeed.
EDIT: To clarify:
252SpAtk Kyurem (+SAtk) Ice Beam vs 4HP/0SpDef Multiscale Dragonite (Neutral): 104% - 123% (340 - 400 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

252SpAtk Kyurem (Neutral) Ice Beam vs 4HP/0SpDef Multiscale Dragonite (Neutral): 96% - 112% (312 - 364 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 76% chance to OHKO.

252Atk +1 Dragonite (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed vs 4HP/0Def Kyurem (Neutral): 40% - 48% (160 - 189 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
Not KOed even with stealth rock and 3 layers of spikes down. Awesome bulk!

[Pocket]

Rain Mixed Tank

Aqua Tail > Superpower - one of the advantages of using Rain Mixed Tank over Classic Mixed Nite is the ability to spam powerful attacks analogous to Draco Meteor and Superpower without the dropped offenses. This allows Dragonite to remain a threat even after the 1st kill. Hurricane & Aqua Tail accomplish this. It wants Aqua Tail to bypass Jirachi, which can absorb Hurricanes and Thunders all day.

Admittedly Superpower is still useful for the decisive kills on Tyranitar and Chansey. I'd personally have Superpower > Thunder for this reason. LO Hurricane already 2HKOs bulky Water-types and Skarmory iirc. It's also nice to have a move that is effective outside of Rain, especially when you face against Sun teams.

ExtremeSpeed is just as useful on this Dragonite as it is on Classic Mixed Nite (or any offensive Nite for that matter). I'd at least give it a slash along Roost.

Parashuffler DNite

SubRoost Shuffler DNite is legit. There's one for Rain, but it certainly works outside of Rain, too. The change I'd like to see on this set is re-name it as Shuffler DNite, and slash Flamethrower > Thunder Wave so it's not Steel bait. Nature should be changed to Calm; may require some SpA EVs to 2HKO Skarmory and Ferrothorn.

Disposable Sets

BulkyDDNite - yea, seems outclassed by Offensive DD and SubRoost DD. We can remove this.

Tank - a pretty ordinary set that doesn't actually see any use, I am fine with scrapping this, too.

[Cerulean21]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

As for Ice Punch, I'm not convinced that it's awful, and it might have some use. It does, for example, allow Dragonite to beat Gliscor 1 on 1 outside of rain, something it couldn't do before. It also hits Landorus-T, who is shaping up to be a pretty formidable check. I think it at least deserves a look before being dismissed out of hand.

I might deserve a look, though I think Dragonite is suffering from moveslot syndrome as it is and Ice Punch has downright horrible coverage alongside Outrage/Dragon Claw. It might not OHKO Gliscor, but I never had a problem with the flying bat, always beating it one on one at +1 (obviously, Dragonite can't set up on it, but if it already has, he'll win).

Some calcs Outrage vs 252/184+ Gliscor:

Choice Band (Adamant 252 Atk): 60.2% - 71,2% 2HKO
+1 Offensive DD (Adamant 252 Atk) @ Lefties/Lum: 60.2% - 71.2% 2HKO
+1 Offensive DD (Adamant 252 Atk) @ Life Orb: 78.2% - 92.4% 2HKO (possible OHKO after SR).
+1 Bulky DD (Adamant 44 Atk): 52% - 61.3% 2HKO after SR

More importantly, Waterfall can be used on Rain teams, offering far better coverage and also putting dents in Gliscor:

Waterfall in Rain vs 252/184+ Gliscor:

Choice Band (252+): 80.2% - 94.9% 2HKO (possible OHKO after SR)
+1 Offensive DD (252+): 80.2% - 94.9% 2HKO (possible OHKO after SR)
+1 Offensive DD (252+) @ Life Orb: 104.5% - 123.2% OHKO
+1 Bulky DD (44+): 68.9% - 81.4% 2HKO after SR

So, I don't think Ice Punch should be mentioned anywhere other than OO, if at all. Dragonite always had Ice Punch, and never used it, for good reason. Also, what would it go over? If Roost is used alongside DD, Fire Punch/EQ are needed to hit the pesky Steel types running rampant in OU. And Gliscor can't KO a Dragonite at full health anyway.
I can see that Ice Punch would have it's uses (like Thunderpunch, btw) but I think it's too situational to merit a moveslot on something that needs all the coverage it can get.

[ginganinja]

Posting own opinions here

Ice Punch can get an AC slash on Offensive DD, but thats it IMO. Choice Band is going to Outrage everything anyway (in my experience) and if I'm really worried in all honesty, id just use Waterfall + rain which does enough anyway.

Bulky DD: Yea you can remove, it can prolly be combined with Offensive DD with little problem.

Choice Band: Max the speed, its what I always do, and I never missed the extra HP Evs in bulk at all.

Sub DD: Yea fine, leave it as is, not much changed for it.

Parashuffler: I don't actually like the set at all, I would be perfectly happy with a deletion as in my experience, it needs a fair bit of support to work effectively, and I never had any problem playing against it, and it was average when I used it myself. Despite this, I read Delta's post, I talked to a few users, and a few people told me it wasn't bad so I am o.k with it staying, provided, as Pocket posted above, Flamethrower (or FB) gets a slash, as I would really hate how Ferrothorn / Forry / Skarm would spiker / spin on me when I ran T-Wave. So yea, slash Flamethrower (I have no real preference for the order) in the set and I will be happy.

Mixed Attacker (Rain): Its a good set (despite what a small minority thinks) so keep it. Stick with the set listing that Jc104 listed, but, like Pocket, I want Aqua Tail getting first slash over Superpower, since you are using it with Rain, and for the reasons Pocket already stated.

Which means that set should look something like this

name: Mixed Attacker (Rain)
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Aqua Tail / Superpower
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Roost
ability: Multiscale
item: Life Orb
nature: Mild
evs: 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe

Mention ES in AC. It was good when I tested it, but imo Thunder kinda needs to be there and ES is a good AC mention.

I am aware that this is different to what Pocket said, but QC (as jc104 pointed out) had a rather heated discussion I believe Pocket missed (I'll give him the log if he wants) and I would prefer that the set looks as I posted above. As I understood it, it was how the majority of QC wanted it ergo, I heavily advise that you take that information on board when you write the analysis.


Tank (Rain): Its fine, leave as is.

Tank: I don't like the set, I think it tries really hard to pull off a tinkerbell set, but in the process ends up kinda like Mixed, without the ability to hit on both sides of the attacking spectrum. It really just tries to do everything in the one set, it calls itself a tank but its running LO which breaks MultiScale, its not a perfect tank, ThunderWave just looks tacked on as a "hey cool I can para stuff" and ugh, I just don't like it. Clearly someone wrote the analysis, and it got enough support to pass QC at the time, so I would like those people to weigh in and inform me how the set works so I can get around to testing it and stuff. Atm I want it deleted but really want to test the set so I can actually make an informed decision.

Dragonite always had Ice Punch, and never used it, for good reason.

Prolly because it was illegal with MultiScale.

[Jimera0]

Damn, alright, time to sift through all these replies. I'll be sorting them by the section they refer to.

Overview:
I might just rewrite this entirely to better reflect the current meta, though honestly I do like the current tone and style of it. In any case I will be using the old one as a guide, since it does mention a lot of important things.

Parashuffler:
I'm not jumping to move parashuffler to OO because it is quite frankly VERY good at what it does (or at least it was in the past). I've had enough trouble facing it in the past... it's very easy to get pretty much your entire team paralyzed by it. I did use it once but that was on a really shitty team so I don't think my results there should really count. I think it should be at least tested in the current meta before we make any rash judgements. I will say that it probably has a harder time than ever before with all the new threats running around with Ice attacks. As for Pocket's suggestion of ditching thunderwave for flamethrower, well I'll give both a test and see what works better. I suspect that we'll have to keep Thunderwave as a slash at least no matter what, since this thing provides paralysis support like nothing else.

Bulky DD set:
Yeah I think that's one set I actually could easily integrate into the AC of the offensive Dnite set (though we'd have to rename the set obviously). It's not much different aside from running HP EVs, so I should be able to just slip that in along with a mention of an item that doesn't break multiscale.

Choice Band:
Yes I agree with maxing the speed on it, makes the most sense. It allows it to outspeed modest heatran, most Cloyster and the occasional Togekiss at the cost of bulk you won't even notice. A good trade imo.

Mixed attacker Rain, Rain Tank:
I'm still a bit iffy on the EVs on the rain tank set, but other than that I like the suggestions you've given. The new spread and set you're putting forward also fits with the conclusion I came to when rewriting the classic Mixnite set; Extremespeed + Max attack is only for when you really need priority and mixed capabilities together. 176 outspeeds adamant Breloom (you're not outspeeding Jolly without going +spe yourself) which is probably a good benchmark to hit. Aqua tail / Superpower is good in the final slot, but Superpower should still stay slashed primarily due to the fact it doesn't miss at inopportune times. Aqua tail is definitely better in most circumstances though I think. And ExtremeSpeed will still get a mention somewhere of course, but probably not as a slash.

Tank:
Ok, so are we in agreement this thing needs some testing? I mean it's such an odd duck that it's hard to tell if it's just a bunch of random stuff thrown together or actually a coherent and viable set. While my first instinct is to ditch it I honestly just don't know enough about it to make that call without some testing first.

Ice Punch:
Yeah after thinking on it I think Ice Punch is AC material at best. However remember that Waterfall doesn't provide the same coverage outside of rain and not every team that runs choice band Dragonite is going to want to / be able to run rain. I'd think where it'd probably go would be over EQ, since with Fire Punch and Outrage EQ is largely redundant, with Outrage or Fire Punch securing the same 2HKOs in most instances. While Gliscor isn't as common as it used to be it IS still common and a pain for Dragonite to get through. Really only bulky Heatran is what you'll miss out on a 2HKO on, and that becomes a 2HKO with just a bit of prior damage. It also gives you a way to KO opposing dragons without locking yourself into outrage, which can be pretty important. So while it IS situational, I still think it's AC material, not OO material.

In other news, I've done a couple quick calcs and found that Genesect is a 100% counter to Sub+Dance Dragonite, unsurprisingly. It might not be overly bulky, but resisting dragon claw and hitting with an Ice Beam backed by 120 SpA means Dragonite can pretty much kiss its ass goodbye.

Oh, and I'll add Scarf Kyurem as a check. I didn't even think about it when making the OP, since I was focusing on new threats, assuming the old ones to all be covered. Looks like that despite Dragonite's massive counter and checks section they still managed to miss one.

I'm going to edit the OP with what conclusions we've come to so far now. Time to get testing some stuff I think.

[Pocket]

ginganinja, can you send me the irc discussion to help me catch up?

Also I think Tailwind should be seriously considered on the Rain MixNite set. It alleviates Dragonite's Speed problem, giving it an upper edge against other Mix Dragons. I can certainly see Tailwind come in handy late-game; the opponent would switch into a death fodder only for Dragonite to set up Tailwind and pull off a sweep unhindered. Even if Dragonite falls short its teammates can benefit from the remaining turns that Tailwind is present. A similar strategy was used in WCup (Tornadus set the Tailwind instead of Dragonite itself), which allowed MixNite to pull off multiple kills (okay I was wrong it was CB NIte).

Classic MixNite may possibly pull this off as well, but it would most likely want Outrage > Superpower if it wants to attempt a sweep.

[Jukain]

I have very extensive experience with the rain tank set so I can help you there.

There needs to be enough SpA EVs to OHKO Keldeo with Hurricane. That is 124 EVs in SpA. 76 EVs is really all you need in Special Defense. It allows you to never be 2HKOed by Tornadus-T's Hidden Power Ice at full health (it does survive Genesect's Ice Beam). HP can stay the same. 56 EVs remain, and placing 48 in Defense gives Dragonite enough to survive CB Nite's Outrage. The remaining 8 can go in Attack to slightly pump up Dragon Tail.

EDIT: That gives 252 HP / 8 Atk / 48 Def / 124 SpA / 76 SpD and a Calm nature

[Pocket]

Thanks for the input, pokemon0078, but eww no Atk EVs to pump DTail; we already nerfed it by going -ve nature. I'd rather see those spare EVs go into its defenses.

[Jukain]

Originally Posted by Fat Pocket

Thanks for the input, pokemon0078, but eww no Atk EVs to pump DTail; we already nerfed it by going -ve nature. I'd rather see those spare EVs go into its defenses.

Then put them in Defense, just realized they allow you to survive CB Mence's Outrage.

252 HP / 56 Def / 124 SpA / 76 SpD

[Jimera0]

Alright Pokemon0078, I have to say on the face of it I like that spread a lot more than the one currently on there. It seems to have a lot wider application than the current spread, and as long as everyone else agrees it's a superior spread I suggest we use that instead.

As for Tailwind... I honestly never thought of that. Having spent so much time with the MixNite set already I can actually see it working fairly well there, though I'd have to test it to be sure. It'd probably work on the rain one too. I think I'll give that a test when I come around to it and I encourage others to test it too.

In testing news, I just spent around 4 hours on Pokemon Showdown testing the standard Parashuffler set, and I can say that I found that Thunder Wave still functions pretty well. I have a few logs where it ended up paralyzing pretty much whole teams. I can see flamethrower having some use too though, since ferrothorn, forretress and Skarmory do like switching in and setting up spikes on this Dragonite. I didn't actually find this to be much of a problem though with a team that was mostly immune to spike damage. I also found that it requires less support than previously thought. Indeed, it's better to think of it as the thing that's providing support. I often ended up using it early game whenever the opportunity presented itself to just paralyze the crap out of things, without worrying so much about how much damage in HP I was doing. In addition, Multiscale + Dragon tail got me out of a number of binds against boosted opponents that would've swept me otherwise.

In short, I think it's worth keeping the current set and just emphasing Flamethrower more by giving it a slash (it's already in the AC of the set, things just need to be shuffled around). Also I think it'd be a good idea to emphasize the importance of a rapid spinner, not just for keeping rocks away for dragonite but also to deal with any spikes that get stacked while you're busy paralyzing stuff. Additionally, having a team mostly immune to spikes (which is a lot easier than it sounds) helps a lot if you're not using flamethrower.

Here's those logs I mentioned btw. There were other good examples especially later on (perhaps better ones) but I kind of got caught up in laddering and forgot to CP them. What can I say, this team was a lot more fun to use than I expected it to be XD.

...

---

Jimera0 joined.
Childofdarkness16 joined.
Format: OU
Rated battle
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: OHKO Clause
Rule: Evasion Clause
Jimera0's team: Dragonite / Ferrothorn / Gengar / Reuniclus / Bronzong / Tentacruel
Childofdarkness16's team: Starmie / Volcarona / Kingdra / Ludicolo / Ferrothorn / Jellicent
Battle between Jimera0 and Childofdarkness16 started!
Jimera0 sent out Bronzong!
Childofdarkness16 sent out Ztar (Starmie)!
Turn 1
The foe's Ztar used Rain Dance!
It started to rain!
Bronzong used Earthquake!
The foe's Ztar lost 34% of its health!
Turn 2
Jimera0 called Bronzong back!
Jimera0 sent out Ferrothorn!
The foe's Ztar used Surf!
It's not very effective... Ferrothorn lost 23% of its health!
Ferrothorn restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 3
The foe's Ztar used Surf!
It's not very effective... Ferrothorn lost 22% of its health!
Ferrothorn used Leech Seed!
The foe's Ztar was seeded!
Ferrothorn restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Ztar's health is sapped by Leech Seed!
Turn 4
Childofdarkness16 called Ztar back!
Childofdarkness16 sent out Derpy (Ludicolo)!
Ferrothorn used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of the foe's team!
Ferrothorn restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 5
Jimera0 called Ferrothorn back!
Jimera0 sent out Dragonite!
The foe's Derpy used Swords Dance!
The foe's Derpy's Attack sharply rose!
Turn 6
The foe's Derpy used Waterfall!
It's not very effective... Dragonite lost 29% of its health!
The foe's Derpy lost some of its HP!
Dragonite flinched!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 7
Jimera0: .... wow every time I get a good opportunity to use dnite I get haxed
The foe's Derpy used Swords Dance!
The foe's Derpy's Attack sharply rose!
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Derpy was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 8
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Derpy used Waterfall!
It's not very effective... Dragonite lost 40% of its health!
The foe's Derpy lost some of its HP!
The rain stopped.
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 9
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Derpy used Waterfall!
It's not very effective... Dragonite lost 26% of its health!
The foe's Derpy lost some of its HP!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 10
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Derpy is paralyzed! It can't move!
Turn 11
The foe's Derpy used Drain Punch!
It's not very effective... Dragonite lost 18% of its health!
Dragonite had its energy drained!
The foe's Derpy lost some of its HP!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The attack of Dragonite missed!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 12
Jimera0: see
Jimera0: what the flying fuck
Childofdarkness16 called Derpy back!
Childofdarkness16 sent out Fennel (Ferrothorn)!
The foe's Fennel is hurt by the spikes!
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Fennel restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 13
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
The foe's Fennel used Leech Seed!
But it failed!
The foe's Fennel restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 14
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Fennel used Gyro Ball!
Dragonite's substitute took the damage!
Turn 15
The foe's Fennel used Gyro Ball!
Dragonite's substitute faded!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
It's not very effective... The foe's Fennel lost 9% of its health!
Dragonite is hurt by the foe's Fennel's Iron Barbs!
The foe's Queendra is hurt by the spikes!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 16
Childofdarkness16 called Queendra back!
Childofdarkness16 sent out Fennel (Ferrothorn)!
The foe's Fennel is hurt by the spikes!
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Fennel was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Fennel restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 17
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
The foe's Fennel used Leech Seed!
The attack of the foe's Fennel missed!
The foe's Fennel restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 18
The foe's Fennel used Gyro Ball!
Dragonite's substitute faded!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
It's not very effective... The foe's Fennel lost 10% of its health!
Dragonite is hurt by the foe's Fennel's Iron Barbs!
The foe's Duster is hurt by the spikes!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Duster restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 19
The foe's Duster used Hurricane!
Dragonite lost 28% of its health!
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Duster was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
The foe's Duster restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 20
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Duster used Hurricane!
Dragonite lost 13% of its health!
Dragonite became confused!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Duster restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 21
Dragonite is confused!
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
The foe's Duster is paralyzed! It can't move!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 22
The foe's Duster used Quiver Dance!
The foe's Duster's Special Attack rose!
The foe's Duster's Special Defense rose!
The foe's Duster's Speed rose!
Dragonite is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 23
The foe's Duster used Bug Buzz!
It's not very effective... Dragonite's substitute took the damage!
Dragonite is confused!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Duster lost 41% of its health!
Dragonite was burned!
The foe's Ztar is hurt by the spikes!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 24
Jimera0: this hax is aaaaaaaarg
The foe's Ztar used Rapid Spin!
Dragonite's substitute faded!
The spikes disappeared from around the foe's team's feet!
Dragonite is confused!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Ztar lost 19% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 25
Dragonite snapped out of its confusion.
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's 'Stache was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
The foe's 'Stache used Rain Dance!
It started to rain!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 26
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's 'Stache used Scald!
It's not very effective... Dragonite lost 6% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 27
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
The foe's 'Stache used Shadow Ball!
Dragonite's substitute took the damage!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 28
The foe's 'Stache is paralyzed! It can't move!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The foe's 'Stache lost 15% of its health!
The foe's Fennel restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 29
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Fennel used Gyro Ball!
Dragonite's substitute faded!
The foe's Fennel restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 30
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
The foe's Fennel used Leech Seed!
But it failed!
The foe's Fennel restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 31
The foe's Fennel used Gyro Ball!
Dragonite's substitute faded!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
It's not very effective... The foe's Fennel lost 4% of its health!
Dragonite is hurt by the foe's Fennel's Iron Barbs!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 32
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's 'Stache is paralyzed! It can't move!
The rain stopped.
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 33
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
The foe's 'Stache used Rain Dance!
It started to rain!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 34
The foe's 'Stache used Scald!
It's not very effective... Dragonite's substitute took the damage!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The foe's 'Stache lost 14% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 35
The foe's Queendra used Dragon Pulse!
It's super effective! Dragonite's substitute faded!
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Queendra was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 36
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Queendra used Dragon Pulse!
It's super effective! Dragonite lost 56% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 37
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Queendra used Dragon Pulse!
It's super effective! Dragonite lost 59% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Turn 38
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Queendra used Dragon Pulse!
It's super effective! Dragonite lost 57% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite was hurt by its burn!
Dragonite fainted!
Childofdarkness16: Finally...
Childofdarkness16: :L
Jimera0 sent out Ferrothorn!
Turn 39
The foe's Queendra used Surf!
It's not very effective... Ferrothorn lost 24% of its health!
Ferrothorn used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of the foe's team!
Ferrothorn restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 40
The foe's Queendra used Surf!
It's not very effective... Ferrothorn lost 23% of its health!
Ferrothorn used Leech Seed!
The attack of Ferrothorn missed!
The rain stopped.
Ferrothorn restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 41
Childofdarkness16 called Queendra back!
Childofdarkness16 sent out Ztar (Starmie)!
The foe's Ztar is hurt by the spikes!
Ferrothorn used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of the foe's team!
Ferrothorn restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 42
The foe's Ztar used Rapid Spin!
It's not very effective... Ferrothorn lost 1% of its health!
The foe's Ztar is hurt by Ferrothorn's Iron Barbs!
The foe's Ztar fainted!
Ferrothorn used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of the foe's team!
Ferrothorn restored HP using its Leftovers!
Childofdarkness16 sent out Duster (Volcarona)!
The foe's Duster is hurt by the spikes!
Turn 43
Jimera0: heh bet you didn't know about that
Jimera0 called Ferrothorn back!
Jimera0 sent out Gengar!
The foe's Duster used Quiver Dance!
The foe's Duster's Special Attack rose!
The foe's Duster's Special Defense rose!
The foe's Duster's Speed rose!
The foe's Duster restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 44
Childofdarkness16: Didn't know what?
Childofdarkness16: That if you die that RS doesn't work?
Childofdarkness16: *faint
Jimera0: yeah
Gengar used Shadow Ball!
The foe's Duster lost 30% of its health!
The foe's Duster's Special Defense fell!
The foe's Duster used Fiery Dance!
A critical hit! Gengar lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Duster's Special Attack rose!
Gengar fainted!
The foe's Duster restored HP using its Leftovers!
Jimera0: wow really I have gotten haxed so much this match
Jimera0 sent out Tentacruel!
Turn 45
Tentacruel used Scald!
It's super effective! The foe's Duster lost 16% of its health!
The foe's Duster fainted!
Childofdarkness16 sent out 'Stache (Jellicent)!
The foe's 'Stache is hurt by the spikes!
Turn 46
Jimera0 called Tentacruel back!
Jimera0 sent out Reuniclus!
The foe's 'Stache is paralyzed! It can't move!
Turn 47
Reuniclus used Calm Mind!
Reuniclus's Special Attack rose!
Reuniclus's Special Defense rose!
The foe's 'Stache used Rain Dance!
It started to rain!
Turn 48
Reuniclus used Calm Mind!
Reuniclus's Special Attack rose!
Reuniclus's Special Defense rose!
The foe's 'Stache used Shadow Ball!
It's super effective! Reuniclus lost 23% of its health!
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 49
Reuniclus used Psychic!
The foe's 'Stache lost 46% of its health!
The foe's 'Stache fainted!
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Childofdarkness16 sent out Fennel (Ferrothorn)!
The foe's Fennel is hurt by the spikes!
Turn 50
Reuniclus used Focus Blast!
It's super effective! The foe's Fennel lost 71% of its health!
The foe's Fennel fainted!
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Childofdarkness16 sent out Derpy (Ludicolo)!
The foe's Derpy is hurt by the spikes!
Turn 51
Childofdarkness16: Good game.
Childofdarkness16: :L
The foe's Derpy used Swords Dance!
The foe's Derpy's Attack sharply rose!
Reuniclus used Psychic!
The foe's Derpy lost 47% of its health!
The foe's Derpy fainted!
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Childofdarkness16 sent out Queendra (Kingdra)!
The foe's Queendra is hurt by the spikes!
Turn 52
Jimera0: lol thanks
The foe's Queendra is paralyzed! It can't move!
Reuniclus used Psychic!
The foe's Queendra lost 63% of its health!
The foe's Queendra fainted!
Jimera0 won the battle!
Ladder updating...
Jimera0's rating: 1653 → 1667
(+6 for winning, +8 from bonus pool)
Childofdarkness16's rating: 1443 → 1442
(-3 for losing, +2 from bonus pool)

...

---

Jimera0 joined.
CoachGump joined.
Format: OU
Rated battle
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: OHKO Clause
Rule: Evasion Clause
Jimera0's team: Dragonite / Ferrothorn / Gengar / Reuniclus / Bronzong / Tentacruel
CoachGump's team: Forretress / Politoed / Tornadus-Therian / Keldeo-Resolution / Scizor / Raikou
8000 joined.
Battle between Jimera0 and CoachGump started!
Jimera0 sent out Bronzong!
CoachGump sent out Politoed!
The foe's Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!
Turn 1
The foe's Politoed used Scald!
Bronzong lost 31% of its health!
Bronzong was burned!
Bronzong used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
Bronzong restored HP using its Leftovers!
Bronzong was hurt by its burn!
Turn 2
CoachGump called Politoed back!
CoachGump sent out Forretress!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Forretress!
Jimera0 called Bronzong back!
Jimera0 sent out Reuniclus!
Turn 3
The foe's Forretress used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around your team!
Reuniclus used Calm Mind!
Reuniclus's Special Attack rose!
Reuniclus's Special Defense rose!
Turn 4
The foe's Forretress used Rapid Spin!
Reuniclus lost 3% of its health!
The pointed stones disappeared from around the foe's team!
Reuniclus used Focus Blast!
The attack of Reuniclus missed!
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 5
The foe's Forretress used Toxic Spikes!
Poison spikes were scattered all around the feet of your team!
Reuniclus used Calm Mind!
Reuniclus's Special Attack rose!
Reuniclus's Special Defense rose!
Turn 6
Jimera0: ... you ralize my entire team is immune to toxic spikes right
Jimera0: *realize
The foe's Forretress used Volt Switch!
Reuniclus lost 5% of its health!
CoachGump: no I'm dumb, thanks
CoachGump called Forretress back!
CoachGump sent out Tornadus-Therian!
Reuniclus used Focus Blast!
It's not very effective... The foe's Tornadus-Therian lost 40% of its health!
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 7
The foe's Tornadus-Therian used U-turn!
It's super effective! Reuniclus lost 20% of its health!
CoachGump called Tornadus-Therian back!
CoachGump sent out Forretress!
Reuniclus used Psychic!
It's not very effective... The foe's Forretress lost 59% of its health!
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 8
The foe's Forretress used Rapid Spin!
Reuniclus lost 3% of its health!
Reuniclus used Calm Mind!
Reuniclus's Special Attack rose!
Reuniclus's Special Defense rose!
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 9
Jimera0: ok that had to be a misclick
The foe's Forretress used Volt Switch!
Reuniclus lost 4% of its health!
CoachGump: yeah
CoachGump called Forretress back!
CoachGump sent out Scizor!
Reuniclus used Focus Blast!
The attack of Reuniclus missed!
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 10
Jimera0: wow really
The foe's Scizor used Pursuit!
It's super effective! Reuniclus lost 35% of its health!
Reuniclus used Recover!
Reuniclus regained health!
Turn 11
The foe's Scizor used U-turn!
It's super effective! Reuniclus lost 60% of its health!
CoachGump called Scizor back!
CoachGump sent out Politoed!
Reuniclus used Focus Blast!
The attack of Reuniclus missed!
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 12
The foe's Politoed used Perish Song!
All Pokémon hearing the song will faint in three turns!
Reuniclus used Recover!
Reuniclus regained health!
The foe's Politoed's perish count fell to 3.
Reuniclus's perish count fell to 3.
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 13
Jimera0: 3/4 misses
Jimera0: amazing
The foe's Politoed used Protect!
The foe's Politoed protected itself!
Reuniclus used Psychic!
The foe's Politoed protected itself!
The foe's Politoed's perish count fell to 2.
Reuniclus's perish count fell to 2.
Turn 14
CoachGump: yeah
CoachGump: focus miss
CoachGump called Politoed back!
CoachGump sent out Forretress!
Reuniclus used Psychic!
It's not very effective... The foe's Forretress lost 29% of its health!
The foe's Forretress fainted!
Reuniclus's perish count fell to 1.
CoachGump sent out Politoed!
Turn 15
Jimera0 called Reuniclus back!
Jimera0 sent out Tentacruel!
The poison spikes disappeared from around your team's feet!
Pointed stones dug into Tentacruel!
The foe's Politoed used Protect!
But it failed!
Tentacruel's Rain Dish heals it!
Tentacruel restored HP using its Black Sludge!
Turn 16
CoachGump called Politoed back!
CoachGump sent out Raikou!
The foe's Raikou is exerting its pressure!
Tentacruel used Rapid Spin!
The foe's Raikou lost 5% of its health!
The pointed stones disappeared from around your team!
Tentacruel's Rain Dish heals it!
Turn 17
Jimera0 called Tentacruel back!
Jimera0 sent out Bronzong!
The foe's Raikou used Thunder!
Bronzong lost 47% of its health!
Bronzong restored HP using its Leftovers!
Bronzong was hurt by its burn!
Turn 18
The foe's Raikou used Thunder!
Bronzong lost 10% of its health!
Bronzong fainted!
Jimera0 sent out Dragonite!
Turn 19
CoachGump called Raikou back!
CoachGump sent out Tornadus-Therian!
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Turn 20
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian used U-turn!
It's not very effective... Dragonite's substitute took the damage!
CoachGump called Tornadus-Therian back!
CoachGump sent out Raikou!
The foe's Raikou is exerting its pressure!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 21
The foe's Raikou used Hidden Power!
It's super effective! Dragonite's substitute faded!
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Raikou was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 22
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Raikou used Hidden Power!
It's super effective! Dragonite lost 15% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 23
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Raikou used Hidden Power!
It's super effective! Dragonite lost 16% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 24
CoachGump called Raikou back!
CoachGump sent out Scizor!
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
Turn 25
The foe's Scizor used Bullet Punch!
Dragonite lost 14% of its health!
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Scizor was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 26
The foe's Scizor is paralyzed! It can't move!
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 27
The foe's Scizor used Bullet Punch!
Dragonite's substitute faded!
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
Turn 28
8000 left.
CoachGump called Scizor back!
CoachGump sent out Tornadus-Therian!
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 29
The foe's Tornadus-Therian used Hurricane!
A critical hit! Dragonite's substitute faded!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian lost 40% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 30
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Politoed was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
The foe's Politoed used Perish Song!
All Pokémon hearing the song will faint in three turns!
The foe's Politoed's perish count fell to 3.
Dragonite's perish count fell to 3.
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 31
CoachGump called Politoed back!
CoachGump sent out Rarity (Keldeo-Resolution)!
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
Dragonite's perish count fell to 2.
Turn 32
Jimera0 called Dragonite back!
Jimera0 sent out Reuniclus!
The foe's Rarity used Calm Mind!
The foe's Rarity's Special Attack rose!
The foe's Rarity's Special Defense rose!
Turn 33
The foe's Rarity used Hidden Power!
It's super effective! Reuniclus lost 82% of its health!
The foe's Rarity lost some of its HP!
Reuniclus used Psychic!
It's super effective! The foe's Rarity lost 57% of its health!
Reuniclus restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 34
Jimera0 called Reuniclus back!
Jimera0 sent out Dragonite!
The foe's Rarity used Hidden Power!
Dragonite lost 15% of its health!
The foe's Rarity lost some of its HP!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 35
The foe's Rarity used Hidden Power!
Dragonite lost 29% of its health!
The foe's Rarity lost some of its HP!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
A critical hit! The foe's Rarity lost 14% of its health!
The foe's Rarity fainted!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
CoachGump sent out Raikou!
The foe's Raikou is exerting its pressure!
Turn 36
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Raikou used Hidden Power!
It's super effective! Dragonite lost 17% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 37
Jimera0 called Dragonite back!
Jimera0 sent out Ferrothorn!
CoachGump called Raikou back!
CoachGump sent out Scizor!
Turn 38
CoachGump called Scizor back!
CoachGump sent out Tornadus-Therian!
Ferrothorn used Leech Seed!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian was seeded!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian's health is sapped by Leech Seed!
Turn 39
The foe's Tornadus-Therian used Focus Blast!
The attack of the foe's Tornadus-Therian missed!
Ferrothorn used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of the foe's team!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian's health is sapped by Leech Seed!
Turn 40
The foe's Tornadus-Therian is paralyzed! It can't move!
Ferrothorn used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of the foe's team!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian's health is sapped by Leech Seed!
Turn 41
The foe's Tornadus-Therian used Focus Blast!
It's super effective! Ferrothorn lost 88% of its health!
Ferrothorn used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of the foe's team!
Ferrothorn restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian's health is sapped by Leech Seed!
Turn 42
Ferrothorn used Protect!
Ferrothorn protected itself!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian used Focus Blast!
Ferrothorn protected itself!
Ferrothorn restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian's health is sapped by Leech Seed!
Turn 43
Ferrothorn used Protect!
But it failed!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian used Focus Blast!
It's super effective! Ferrothorn lost 46% of its health!
Ferrothorn fainted!
Jimera0 sent out Dragonite!
Turn 44
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian used Focus Blast!
The attack of the foe's Tornadus-Therian missed!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian's health is sapped by Leech Seed!
Turn 45
CoachGump called Tornadus-Therian back!
CoachGump sent out Politoed!
The foe's Politoed is hurt by the spikes!
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Politoed restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 46
The foe's Politoed used Perish Song!
All Pokémon hearing the song will faint in three turns!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Politoed lost 22% of its health!
Dragonite's perish count fell to 3.
Turn 47
The foe's Tornadus-Therian used Hurricane!
Dragonite's substitute faded!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The attack of Dragonite missed!
Dragonite's perish count fell to 2.
Turn 48
The foe's Tornadus-Therian used Hurricane!
Dragonite lost 28% of its health!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian lost 37% of its health!
The foe's Politoed is hurt by the spikes!
Dragonite's perish count fell to 1.
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Politoed restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 49
Jimera0 called Dragonite back!
Jimera0 sent out Tentacruel!
The foe's Politoed used Scald!
It's not very effective... Tentacruel lost 16% of its health!
Tentacruel's Rain Dish heals it!
Tentacruel restored HP using its Black Sludge!
The foe's Politoed restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 50
CoachGump called Politoed back!
CoachGump sent out Raikou!
The foe's Raikou is hurt by the spikes!
The foe's Raikou is exerting its pressure!
Tentacruel used Scald!
The foe's Raikou lost 39% of its health!
Tentacruel's Rain Dish heals it!
Turn 51
Tentacruel used Scald!
The foe's Raikou lost 31% of its health!
The foe's Raikou fainted!
CoachGump sent out Tornadus-Therian!
Turn 52
Tentacruel used Scald!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian lost 46% of its health!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian used Hurricane!
Tentacruel lost 71% of its health!
Tentacruel's Rain Dish heals it!
Tentacruel restored HP using its Black Sludge!
Turn 53
Tentacruel used Scald!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian lost 3% of its health!
The foe's Tornadus-Therian fainted!
Tentacruel's Rain Dish heals it!
Tentacruel restored HP using its Black Sludge!
CoachGump sent out Scizor!
The foe's Scizor is hurt by the spikes!
Turn 54
Tentacruel used Scald!
A critical hit! The foe's Scizor lost 71% of its health!
The foe's Scizor used U-turn!
A critical hit! It's not very effective... Tentacruel lost 35% of its health!
CoachGump called Scizor back!
CoachGump sent out Politoed!
The foe's Politoed is hurt by the spikes!
Tentacruel's Rain Dish heals it!
The foe's Politoed restored HP using its Leftovers!
Tentacruel restored HP using its Black Sludge!
Turn 55
Tentacruel used Scald!
It's not very effective... The foe's Politoed lost 16% of its health!
The foe's Politoed used Scald!
It's not very effective... Tentacruel lost 15% of its health!
Tentacruel was burned!
Tentacruel's Rain Dish heals it!
Tentacruel restored HP using its Black Sludge!
The foe's Politoed restored HP using its Leftovers!
Tentacruel was hurt by its burn!
Turn 56
CoachGump: gg
Tentacruel used Scald!
It's not very effective... The foe's Politoed lost 16% of its health!
The foe's Politoed used Scald!
It's not very effective... Tentacruel lost 16% of its health!
Tentacruel fainted!
The foe's Politoed restored HP using its Leftovers!
Jimera0 sent out Gengar!
Turn 57
The foe's Politoed used Protect!
The foe's Politoed protected itself!
Gengar used Shadow Ball!
The foe's Politoed protected itself!
The foe's Politoed restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 58
Gengar used Shadow Ball!
A critical hit! The foe's Politoed lost 15% of its health!
The foe's Politoed fainted!
CoachGump sent out Scizor!
The foe's Scizor is hurt by the spikes!
The foe's Scizor fainted!
Jimera0 won the battle!
Ladder updating...
Jimera0's rating: 1658 → 1677
(+12 for winning, +7 from bonus pool)
CoachGump's rating: 931 → 947
(-62 for losing, +78 from bonus pool)
CoachGump left.

...

---

Pinkeye117 joined.
Jimera0 joined.
Format: OU
Rated battle
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: OHKO Clause
Rule: Evasion Clause
Jimera0's team: Dragonite / Ferrothorn / Gengar / Reuniclus / Bronzong / Tentacruel
Pinkeye117's team: Tyranitar / Jirachi / Breloom / Terrakion / Skarmory / Genesect
Calibek joined.
Battle between Pinkeye117 and Jimera0 started!
Pinkeye117 sent out Breloom!
Jimera0 sent out Bronzong!
Turn 1
The foe's Breloom used Bulk Up!
The foe's Breloom's Attack rose!
The foe's Breloom's Defense rose!
Bronzong used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
The foe's Breloom's Toxic Orb activated!
The foe's Breloom was badly poisoned!
Turn 2
The foe's Breloom used Bulk Up!
The foe's Breloom's Attack rose!
The foe's Breloom's Defense rose!
Bronzong used Hidden Power!
It's super effective! The foe's Breloom lost 31% of its health!
The foe's Breloom restored HP using its Poison Heal!
Turn 3
The foe's Breloom used Drain Punch!
Bronzong lost 55% of its health!
Bronzong had its energy drained!
Bronzong used Hidden Power!
It's super effective! The foe's Breloom lost 30% of its health!
Bronzong restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Breloom restored HP using its Poison Heal!
Turn 4
The foe's Breloom used Spore!
Bronzong fell asleep!
Bronzong is fast asleep.
Bronzong restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Breloom restored HP using its Poison Heal!
Turn 5
Jimera0 called Bronzong back!
Jimera0 sent out Dragonite!
The foe's Breloom used Bulk Up!
The foe's Breloom's Attack rose!
The foe's Breloom's Defense rose!
The foe's Breloom restored HP using its Poison Heal!
Turn 6
The foe's Breloom used Drain Punch!
It's not very effective... Dragonite lost 19% of its health!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The attack of Dragonite missed!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 7
Jimera0: *sigh* why does that always happen when I'm against a boosted opponent
The foe's Breloom used Seed Bomb!
It's not very effective... Dragonite lost 21% of its health!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Breloom lost 14% of its health!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Skarmory!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Skarmory restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 8
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Skarmory was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
The foe's Skarmory used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of your team!
The foe's Skarmory restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 9
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Skarmory is paralyzed! It can't move!
The foe's Skarmory restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 10
The foe's Skarmory is paralyzed! It can't move!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
It's not very effective... The foe's Skarmory lost 9% of its health!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Genesect!
The foe's Genesect's Download raised its Attack!
Turn 11
The foe's Genesect used Thunderbolt!
Dragonite lost 10% of its health!
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Genesect was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 12
Pinkeye117 called Genesect back!
Pinkeye117 sent out Jirachi!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Jirachi!
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Jirachi restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 13
Pinkeye117 called Jirachi back!
Pinkeye117 sent out Tyranitar!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Tyranitar!
The foe's Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Tyranitar was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
The sandstorm rages.
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Tyranitar restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 14
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The foe's Tyranitar used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around your team!
The sandstorm rages.
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Tyranitar restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 15
The foe's Tyranitar used Ice Beam!
A critical hit! It's super effective! Dragonite's substitute faded!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The foe's Tyranitar lost 20% of its health!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Skarmory!
The sandstorm rages.
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Skarmory restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 16
Pinkeye117 called Skarmory back!
Pinkeye117 sent out Genesect!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Genesect!
The foe's Genesect's Download raised its Attack!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
It's not very effective... The foe's Genesect lost 17% of its health!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Skarmory!
The sandstorm rages.
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Skarmory restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 17
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
It's not very effective... The foe's Skarmory lost 8% of its health!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Jirachi!
The sandstorm rages.
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Jirachi restored HP using its Leftovers!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 18
The foe's Jirachi used Body Slam!
Dragonite lost 9% of its health!
Dragonite was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
Dragonite used Substitute!
Dragonite put in a substitute!
Dragonite lost 25% of its health!
The sandstorm rages.
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 19
The foe's Jirachi used Wish!
Dragonite used Thunder Wave!
The foe's Jirachi was paralyzed! It may be unable to move!
The sandstorm rages.
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 20
Pinkeye117 called Jirachi back!
Pinkeye117 sent out Genesect!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Genesect!
The foe's Genesect's Download raised its Attack!
Dragonite used Roost!
Dragonite regained health!
The sandstorm rages.
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Jirachi's wish came true!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 21
The foe's Genesect used Ice Beam!
It's super effective! Dragonite's substitute faded!
Dragonite used Dragon Tail!
The attack of Dragonite missed!
The sandstorm rages.
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Dragonite restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 22
Jimera0: fuck
Jimera0 called Dragonite back!
Jimera0 sent out Tentacruel!
Pointed stones dug into Tentacruel!
Tentacruel is hurt by the spikes!
The foe's Genesect used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective... Tentacruel lost 14% of its health!
The sandstorm rages.
Tentacruel is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Tentacruel restored HP using its Black Sludge!
Turn 23
Pinkeye117 called Genesect back!
Pinkeye117 sent out Jirachi!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Jirachi!
Tentacruel used Rapid Spin!
It's not very effective... The foe's Jirachi lost 2% of its health!
The spikes disappeared from around your team's feet!
The pointed stones disappeared from around your team!
The sandstorm rages.
Tentacruel is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Tentacruel restored HP using its Black Sludge!
The foe's Jirachi restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 24
Jimera0 called Tentacruel back!
Jimera0 sent out Gengar!
The foe's Jirachi is paralyzed! It can't move!
The sandstorm rages.
Gengar is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Gengar restored HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Jirachi restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 25
Pinkeye117 called Jirachi back!
Pinkeye117 sent out Tyranitar!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Tyranitar!
Gengar used Substitute!
Gengar put in a substitute!
Gengar lost 25% of its health!
The sandstorm rages.
Gengar is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Tyranitar restored HP using its Leftovers!
Gengar restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 26
Gengar used Focus Blast!
It's super effective! The foe's Tyranitar lost 72% of its health!
The foe's Tyranitar used Crunch!
It's super effective! Gengar's substitute faded!
The sandstorm rages.
Gengar is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Tyranitar restored HP using its Leftovers!
Gengar restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 27
Gengar used Shadow Ball!
It's not very effective... The foe's Tyranitar lost 8% of its health!
The foe's Tyranitar fainted!
The sandstorm rages.
Gengar is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Gengar restored HP using its Leftovers!
Pinkeye117 sent out Genesect!
Pointed stones dug into the foe's Genesect!
The foe's Genesect's Download raised its Attack!
Turn 28
Gengar used Substitute!
Gengar put in a substitute!
Gengar lost 25% of its health!
The foe's Genesect used Thunderbolt!
Gengar's substitute faded!
The sandstorm rages.
Gengar is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Gengar restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 29
Gengar used Disable!
The foe's Genesect's Thunderbolt was disabled!
The foe's Genesect is paralyzed! It can't move!
The sandstorm rages.
Gengar is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Gengar restored HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 30
Pinkeye117 forfeited.
Jimera0 won the battle!
Ladder updating...
Pinkeye117 left.
Pinkeye117's rating: 1573 → 1571
(-2 for losing)
Jimera0's rating: 1667 → 1681
(+7 for winning, +7 from bonus pool)

[Pocket]

I've been testing Classic MixNite, and Roost is nowhere near useful on this set. Mainly because it's way better off just throwing out strong hits after another rather than spending a turn to activate MultiScale, which would easily be broken due to sand, LO recoil. On a Dragonite with 0 defensive investment, it's taking huge chunks from the opponent, and add that with LO recoil it's not getting back to full health after 1 turn of Roost (in which case Dragonite's dead meat).

I definitely found Tailwind and ExtremeSpeed MUCH more useful, since they both circumvent Dragonite's terrible Speed. Tailwind is nice since it can use its powerful special and physical moves rather than ExtremeSpeed to kill faster opponents, but ExtremeSpeed's emergency priority has also come in handy.

Earthquake was also certainly useful when facing Rain teams with Jirachi and / or Tentacruel, which can use Dragonite as set-up fodder. I'd say Tailwind or ExtremeSpeed has more overall utility, though.

Basically remove Roost and slash Tailwind / ExtremeSpeed (whatever order). Earthquake may be good enough for that 3rd slash. But yea, Roost isn't good on this set - the turn you spend Roosting is better off spent dishing hard hits or setting up Tailwind.

[Jimera0]

Originally Posted by Fat Pocket

I've been testing Classic MixNite, and Roost is nowhere near useful on this set. Mainly because it's way better off just throwing out strong hits after another rather than spending a turn to activate MultiScale, which would easily be broken due to sand, LO recoil. On a Dragonite with 0 defensive investment, it's taking huge chunks from the opponent, and add that with LO recoil it's not getting back to full health after 1 turn of Roost (in which case Dragonite's dead meat).

I definitely found Tailwind and ExtremeSpeed MUCH more useful, since they both circumvent Dragonite's terrible Speed. Tailwind is nice since it can use its powerful special and physical moves rather than ExtremeSpeed to kill faster opponents, but ExtremeSpeed's emergency priority has also come in handy.

Earthquake was also certainly useful when facing Rain teams with Jirachi and / or Tentacruel, which can use Dragonite as set-up fodder. I'd say Tailwind or ExtremeSpeed has more overall utility, though.

Basically remove Roost and slash Tailwind / ExtremeSpeed (whatever order). Earthquake may be good enough for that 3rd slash. But yea, Roost isn't good on this set - the turn you spend Roosting is better off spent dishing hard hits or setting up Tailwind.

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I was saying about Roost on the last topic :P but I met with a rather intense amount of resistance then didn't I :P.

I really do like having EQ for Jirachi and Tentacruel since those buggers are always really hard for my stallish teams to bust through, but for most teams I do imagine the speed boost is more useful. However, I'm sure I'm not the only stall team relying on Dragonite to bust through Jirachi and Tenta, so I'll leave it in the last slash. I agree fully with your conclusion here, and while I haven't tested Tailwind myself I really can see it working wonders and catching a lot of people even more off guard than they already are by a mixed Dragonite :P.

Haven't been testing the past few days (no real good excuse but whatever) but I intend on giving the Rain sets some testing soon, since I already have old teams that used a Rain Dragonite that I can use for the testing.

I'd like to know what everyone else is testing so we can coordinate somewhat and just get our information together. Currently in need of testing IMO are the rain dragonite sets (a lot of debate over those) and the Tank set (no one I've talked to really has a clue about how that one will perform). Feel free to test the others too if you feel you have things to add of course, just some suggestions.

Finally, I'd like some second opinions on Parashuffler and make sure we all agree before I change to OP at all to reflect my results.

[Pocket]

After testing Rain Nite with Roost and only using the healing move once, I find it also a sub-par option for this mixed set, too. ExtremeSpeed's extra damage would have easily won me games that I've lost.

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

Finally, I'd like some second opinions on Parashuffler and make sure we all agree before I change to OP at all to reflect my results.

I would like to say that Parashuffler Dnite is possibly one of the most underwhelming Pokemon onsite now. In my period of time using it (and playing against it) in the BW1 metagame, often what would occur is that a team would nominate their defensive steel-type to consistently tank Dragon Tails to waste PP and absorb Thunder Waves (particularly Ferrothorn who would break Multiscale). Now to prevent this situation you would have to tack hazard support on top of Dragonite's necessary Rapid Spin. However, it came to the point where (shameless plug for team in sig) I reasoned "why I am using this much support, for support". As it turns out, there where other Pokemon much more capable to spreading paralysis anyway for one particular reason: Dragonite doesn't draw in the Pokemon that need to paralyzed. Latias (who has a very similar set of resists to Dragonite but isn't SR weak), Jirachi, and Ferrothorn (silly Terrakions/Heatrans) could all spread paralysis better since they could draw in Pokemon that actually are affected by paralysis instead of generic defensive steels. Also this isn't even taking into consideration of the situations where you did use hazards support, you would forfeit all momentum if a Rapid spin user came in. Basically you have to decide retaining your hazards but consequently losing your Substitute and momentum or retaining a Sub, but be forced out in the future for not accumulating enough damage anyway.

Lest not forget either, you are wasting a perfectly good Dragonite slot for spreading paralysis. Dragonite has so many better things to do than spreading paralysis, such as demolishing teams with its power, especially when other Pokemon in the tier can spread it more effectively with less support.

I would be dissapointed if the Bulky DD set got deleted and plan to make a case for it at a latter date.

[Jimera0]

@Pocket
Yeah that wouldn't surprise me. While they have completely different moves the rain mixed set works pretty much the same way the classic mixed set does, so if Roost doesn't work well on one it's not likely to work very well on the other.

@ThePillsburyBoughBoy

I think I'm starting to see why so many people are disappointing with the Parashuffler set; they're using it and thinking about it the wrong way. You see using a spinner and hazards as support for DRAGONITE rather than thinking of them as essential parts of a stall team. And honestly, if you're not using this Dragonite on a very stall oriented team you are better off using something else.

As for the issue of bulky steels switching into thunder wave over and over... well yeah, you get that problem with ANY Pokemon that spreads paralysis. None of the other Pokemon you listed have any way to prevent that from happening to them too. Jirachi doesn't even get surprise paralysis on good Pokemon because everyone assumes Jirachi is going to be carrying a paralysis move anyway. Dragonite draws in fast revenge killers almost as much as it draws in defensive steels before its set is revealed, so it's not like it can't paralyze something worth paralyzing. Latias might have a similar set of resistances but it can't wall as effectively as Dragonite can due to multiscale, and also is forced to run Dragon Pulse over Substitute or become complete taunt bait wheras Dragonite isn't due to Dragon Tail, making Latias MUCH more susceptible to status.

Now as for losing momentum if a rapid spinner switches in, again, name me a shuffler that doesn't have that problem! It's a condition of shufflers in general, not one unique to Dragonite. Seeing as you use a shuffler Latias on your own team, you clearly don't think shufflers are obsolete so I don't understand your point. Not to mention the fact that unlike many other shufflers, Dragonite still wracks up damage even without hazards on the field and is actually better off in that situation than most are...

Parashuffler Dragonite has a unique niche in that it can wall (Don't say Latias can wall without substitute, it'll get paralyzed/toxic'd in a heartbeat unless you use heal bell support, and then your "support for support" argument applies to it too), paralyze and shuffle all in one set, something no other Pokemon can do. That alone makes it attractive to stall teams. It's not something you should shove onto any old team, but that doesn't mean it's not among the most effective options out there for stall teams that CAN make use of it and carry the support it needs anyway.

EDIT: Just tested the rain tank set on my old rain team and it just plain dominated. It is rather vulnerable once its weather is taken away but Dragon Tail means it still has some usefulness outside of it at least. I don't see any need to change anything on that particular set, though a mention of running more SpA EVs (take them out of SpDef) could be useful in order to gain guaranteed 2HKOs on Jellicent and prevent Ferrothorn from stalling you with Leech Seed and Protect (hurricane just doesn't do enough damage with the current EVs) as well as to just generally improve damage outsput. Something like 252 HP / 252 SpA or maybe some more specific spread would probably be good for a mention in the AC. However, the SpDef EVs do help with tanking various powerful special attacks that are present int the meta.

[Pocket]

No Dragonite set makes better use of MultiScale than the ones with Sub Roost + defensive investment. Those includes the DDset and the Shuffler set. Honestly, Thunder Wave is merely an accessory; all it needs is SubRoost's amazing capability of keeping Dragonite around forever and the ability to phaze with Dragon Tail.

The fourth slot does not necessarily need to be Dragon Tail. If used in a Rain team, it can be Hurricane; Flamethrower is nice to roast common Spikers; Dragon Claw or Dragon Rush for stronger STAB; Hone Claws or Dragon Dance to power up Dragon Tail; Toxic for toxic-stalling; and Safeguard for status protection are all some viable alternatives over Thunder Wave.

[jc104]

I'm inclined to agree with Pocket regarding roost on the classic mixed set. That was agreed before I was on the team. It is worth noting that it might be more suited to the rain set because of potential paralysis and confusion from Thunder and Hurricane. Don't just assume that it's the same for both.

However, I can't quite see why the sets should have differing amounts of Speed. I know this was somewhat my fault but it needs to be fixed imo.

[Pocket]

Thanks for your show of support, jc104!

I think 241 Speed is a nice benchmark, outpacing Timid Magnezone. Nobody really uses Jolly TTar without Scarf anyways.

[Jimera0]

Been testing the rain mixed set, I have to agree with Pocket that Roost is pretty much useless on it. I just won a match against a sun team because I had Extremespeed on Dragonite; having at least one attack that isn't dependent on rain is a big deal. I suggest that EQ get a slash in the final slot as well, specifically for helping to deal with sun teams, and perhaps slash Draco Meteor with Thunder as it gets a lot of the same KOs (not all of them obviously, like Sp.Def Skarm) while being usable in Sun and more reliable in other weather conditions. The idea of using parafusion with a life orb is really not a good one, and if you're using Leftovers you might as well use the tank set which does defensive play MUCH better.

I'm not sure about Tailwind though; one thing I noticed about it is how much this set likes having an attacking move that works outside of rain, especially in sun. The current set we have is rendered completely useless in Sun, (when using roost) and on rain teams Dragonite is frequently expected to be a check to sun. It's amazing how frustrating it is having a Pokemon that resists almost everything sun can throw at it but can't hit back. I can see it being useful if Dragonite has some of offensive teammates though (my test team didn't so I didn't really bother testing).

So which sets specifically are we thinking of shifting the speed to 180EVs for (that's 241 spe)? I'm presuming just the mixed and tank sets correct? Well maybe not the weatherless tank I still need to test that thing.

And Pocket I'm not sure what you're suggesting with the Parashuffler set. If we make your changes it kind of morphs into other sets (IE Dragon Dance turns it into sub-dance set, becomes tank set with sub if you remove D-tail, Hone Claws... actually that's an interesting idea). I think I should do more testing with it without Thunder Wave or other moves. However I insist that the current set DOES work. It's a rather niche role, but when it's put in that niche it performs it very well. Still more options certainly should not be ruled out.