Research Group #4 - Gothitelle, Serperior, Exploud, Omanyte

[erisia]

Introduction:
NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Group aids in helping explore the tier. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.

Some rules:

• Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize.
• Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 3 Pokemon we are "researching". You'll be able to vote on what Pokemon you want the next Research Group right before it starts (out of a ballot that is determined by me)

The 4 Pokemon that we will be looking into this Research Group are:



How useful are these Pokemon in NU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #neverused/#pokemon as well!

Please include more substance in your posts than just "in" and what Pokemon you're using. What sets are you planning on using? What interests you about whatever Pokemon you're using?

[erisia]

Hi everyone!

For this group we're going with four Pokemon; as not only do we have three interesting mons that deserve more consideration, we have the presence of Gothitelle in the tier, which is no doubt going to be the flavour of the month with its access to Shadow Tag and general not-bad-ness. Hopefully, this Research Group will encourage people to get to grips with the Gothitelle metagame a bit more, both identifiying the best sets, discovering new ideas that might be secretly awesome, and learning how to account for it in teambuilding.

The other three candidates, on the other hand, are here because they're in the shadow of some of the most popular Pokemon at the moment, such as Amoonguss, Cinccino, and Alomomola. However, they all have niches that make them worth considering over the more standard choices, and I hope this Research Group will encourage people to stray a little bit from the norm and find out what makes these Pokemon special, and in which teams they shine the brightest.

Also, here's how you get points.

• Get one of these 5 awards for Research Group: "Best Forum Discusser" (this topic only), "Best IRC Discusser (#pokemon or #neverused)", "Most Innovative", "Most Interesting Set", and "Game-breaking discovery". Each of these will give you 5 points.
• Win Pokemon challenges. These challenges would be something like "use Synthesis Simisage effectively". Each challenge you complete successfully you get 3 points for.
• Possibly some additional bonus points, for unexpected awesomeness.

Without any further ado, here's some challenges to get you all started!

Pokemon Challenges

Rules:

• You must test the sets that you post out
• You must talk about what the sets do and your experiences with them
• You may not use any slashes.

• Create a set that uses three attacks. Restriction: No choice items.
• Create a set that uses NO attacks.

• Create a set that does not use Leftovers or Life Orb as an item.
• Create a set that uses Glare effectively.

• Create a set that uses at least two non-attacking moves.

• Create a set that uses the Weak Armor ability effectively. Restriction: No Shell Smash.
• Create a set that uses Shell Smash effectively.

Note: All moves must have some relevant use, and not just be filler choices.

Some of these were too easy, and since no-one's posted any sets yet, I'm going to change them to add some extra, well, challenge.

Points Leaderboard

---

1. CrashinBoomBang - 21 points
2. FLCL - 13 points
3. Annoyer - 12 points
4. Tribute - 2 points
5. Shovel - 1 point

[Full2Half]

i love this research week already....

definately using exploud and omanyte, might use goth and/or serp too.

EXPLOUDEXPLOUDEXPLOUDEXPLOUD

anyways, i love exploud because specs scrappy hyper voice and resttalk scrappy circle throw. A phasing set should work, especially with omanyte setting up hazards.

omanyte has hazards which is cool.

serp has SubCM, leech seed, coil... basically sets running out the ass.

goth can trap and stuff and i like the specs set to fuck up regenerator cores.

i know i did really lackluster explainations, but I'm kinda in a rush. I'll post more about them later.

[CrashinBoomBang]

Well, I always wanted to try Omanyte just because it learns SR + Spikes so I guess I'll go with that. I already have a set without Eviolite in mind.

Oh, and Gothitelle obviously. It's just too tempting to not use. Probably going with Specs for this one.

Not too interested in Serperior and Exploud in the current metagame, but I might try them out a bit later.

[Annoyer]

In.xWill be using Serperior. I believe NoLuckInvolved made this Glare set, but it is Glare/Taunt/Leech Seed/Giga Drain with 252 HP/32 Def/232 Spe and Timid nature. I have used this set multiple times since it is a good stallbreaker, and paralysis supporter. Will make this prettier and describe it better but I'm in a rush right now. I will also be using Gothitelle (RestTalk is broken as hell).

Edit: will just make a new post with the serperior set

[Majestic Electric]

In and will be testing Exploud.

Looking at Exploud's stats and movepool, I think a mixed set would be viable, so I'll try that out.

Alt: Static Sucks

[Agent Dell]

I'll might try out of these Pokemon. Obviously, Gothitelle is mad hype and too tempting to not even consider, so that was my first option. Probably using a Specs and maybe a 3 attacks+Taunt set.

Omastar seems pretty cool as well because of its support movepool, so I'll give it a shot as well.

I've been using Calm Mind Serperior quite frequently, and it's interesting as is. Might use a support set with Glare also.

Exploud's movepool is interesting enough to try as well, later some time.

[Annoyer]

LOL Majestic Electric I already have an account Ban Static so you have to pick a new alt even though you don't really need an alt for this RG.

[Machineae]

Oh wow surprised that Exploud was chosen. He doesn't get any recognition .-.

That first challenge for him is kinda easy since for the most part, the only physical move you'd use is Hammer Arm, even then theres plenty of other choices for that slot and Focus Blast. May do this challenge to get back into battling c:

[Straw Hat]

yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes SERPERIOR TO THE MAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'll be using serperior obviously. first challenge is doable, but i'll have to think since lo and lefties are his bread and butter. glare is a really good move, excited to try it. by the way, if i do more than one challenge on one set, do i get 2 or 1 point(s)? EDIT: such an idiot, forgot to say in

[erisia]

Glad to see everyone's eager so far! I've changed some of the challenges, as they weren't really, well, challenges. These ones will require slightly more thought, hopefully.

[WhiteDMist]

I'm actually going to participate in this one. I'll be using Serperior, Gothitelle, and Exploud. I'll be testing a 3 Attack Gothitelle, a Glare abusing Serperior, and a special attack based Exploud (unless you are only supposed to use all out special offensive).

[ChaoticaMortis]

Damn this seems like a bad idea, but I'll try it out anyways. Hey, if it works that's 2 challenges completed for 1 set!

Serperior @ Choice Specs
Modest Nature
EV's: 4HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
-Leaf Storm
-Giga Drain
-Hidden Power Ice
-Glare

Okay, so base 75 isn't necessarily the best SpAtk stat around, but backed by Choice Specs it can be somewhat threatening, especially when your primary attack is going to be the 140 BP Leaf Storm. Exeggutor was the inspiration for this set, as I've always liked Specseggutor, but his terrible speed was a constant let down for me. Serperior's awesome base 113 Spe stat allows it to move faster than almost every unboosted 'mon in the tier, and his 75 / 95 / 95 defenses really aren't that bad even without investment.
Again, Leaf Storm is the STAB option of choice, as it hits harder than any of Serperior's other viable attacks. Giga Drain is if you need to recover HP or don't want an immediate SpAtk drop. HP Ice is for coverage, and eliminates opposing Grass, Flying, and Ground-types. Glare is a very useful utility option, and can cripple potential counters to Serperior much like Specseggutor's Sleep Powder works for it. I'll get to testing this as soon as possible.

EDIT: Probably going to change HP Ice for HP Rock.

[TropiOUs]

Create a set that does not use Leftovers or Life Orb as an item.

Easy.

Serperior @ Light Clay
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Giga Drain

I think it is obvious how a fast and decently bulky screener works. Taunt+ Giga Drain to prevent most Stealth Rock attempts.

Create a set that uses at least two non-attacking moves.

Exploud @ Leftovers
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 164 Spd / 252 SAtk / 92 HP
Modest Nature
- Focus Blast
- Hyper Voice
- Substitute
- Work Up

Perfect Coverage out of champion Shedinja thanks to Scrappy. Hyper Voice for reliable STAB move. Focus Blast complements Hyper Voice nicely by hitting all resists and fellow Normal-types hard. Sub to shield from revenge kill and protect you just in case that Focus Blast misses(lol always). Work Up to boost its special Attack and because it really doesn't need any extra coverage.

Max special Attack for maximum damage, fast Enough to outspeed standard defensive missy that will do nothing to you, giving you a free sub, rest is in bulk.

[Zarco]

I'm in, I'll be using Serp for sure, not sure what else. Count me in, I'll post sets and results and stuff later.

[Flashrider57]

I'm in. Just theorymonning here…
Serperior@Leftovers
Overgrow
Careful Nature
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
-Glare
-Substitute
-Taunt
-Dragon Tail

Works as a status spreader/phazer/general pain to deal with. Feel free to test it out, as I'm just theorying here.

[Molk]

In, if not only because more people should use this set.

Serperior @ Life Orb
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Rock]

This is like, the best possible serperior set at this point (contrary ofc would beat it out when released). With serp's excellent speed, good bulk, and overgrow ability, it can be an excellent user of both substitute and calm mind. the best way to use this serp is to come in on a bulky water/ground type such as seismitoad, mola, golem, or even samurott (watch out for megahorn/ice beam!). You Force the opponent out and either use calm mind or substitute, from there you try to set up on or wear down the pokemon that came in, at +1 serp can take a suprising amount of punishment, and garbodor's clear smogs cant even break his substitutes. from there you should try and set up as many calm minds as possible, and when you can sweep/need Hp, fire off a giga drain. Substitute, overgrow, and giga drain are an amazing combo. when your serp is ready to sweep, but cant OHKO the pokemon in front of it, simply use substitute, get to overgrow range, and giga drain their ass. Hidden power rock hits birds and shit, another hidden power such as ice could also be useful, but rock provides the best possible coverage. Life Orb gives serp the power needed to sweep, but leftovers are a perfectly viable option.

Even with amoonguss in the tier, subCM serperior is a very threatening pokemon, and should never be underestimated.

[WhiteDMist]

Originally Posted by Fat Flashrider57

I'm in. Just theorymonning here…
Serperior@Leftovers
Overgrow
Careful Nature
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
-Glare
-Substitute
-Taunt
-Dragon Tail

Works as a status spreader/phazer/general pain to deal with. Feel free to test it out, as I'm just theorying here.

I've been testing that set out too (different EV spread but still)! Sadly, Taunt had to be replaced with Leaf Blade; Dragon Tail's negative priority hurt more often than not since it was the only offensive move. Still, with a lot of team support, I suppose that Taunt would still work.

[Full2Half]

Ok, so i've done a bit of battling with all these guys on the same team. And I must say, they work quite well. They seem a bit gimmicky, but they perform beutifully together and can troll the living hell out of your opponents. :)

Create a set that uses the Weak Armor ability effectively. Restriction: No Shell Smash.

> Omastar (Omanyte) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes

This set was CBB's idea, just posting it because im using it. It's okay, but not really what I was hoping for. However, the hazards are pretty nice, especially because my whole team is about phasing and shit. Basically it lives a hit, sets up hazards, and hopefully outspeeds the next turn with the weak armor and sets up again.

Create a set that uses at least two non-attacking moves.

FUS RO DAH! (Exploud) @ Leftovers
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SDef
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Circle Throw
- Roar

This set for exploud is to abuse the hazards and phase stuff with resttalk and 2 phasing moves. It's alright, but has a hard time in the current metagame, but it's a very reliable defensive phaser imo and has saved me a few times. It's certainly creative and makes full use of the hazards provided by omanyte.

Create a set that uses Glare effectively.

Swag Snake (Serperior) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Spd / 128 SDef / 128 HP
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Dragon Tail
- Glare
- Synthesis

This set is probably the greatest of these, and it abuses a ton of great defensive options to slowly chip away the opposing team. Glare is great because parashuffling and it pairs well with coil so it misses less. Dragon tail is obvious because it's a solid phasing attack and it's this set's only means of doing damage. Coil is there because it's what sets him apart from dragonair as far as a parashuffler goes, because lefties and boosting attack accuracy and defence all in one turn. Coil also makes it easier to spam glare and dragon tail and further induce rage. Synthesis is the cherry on the cake, giving serp a reliable way to heal himself while setting up coils and phasing stuff around.


Russian Dolls (Gothitelle) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 SAtk / 176 Spd / 80 HP
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
- Energy Ball

Also using specs gothitelle, but not much imagination involved in that. It is however great at dismantling the annoying regenerator cores that plague this team due to it's structure of constantly phasing.

[indian]

I am in & will use glare serperior (dragon tail set).

[WhiteDMist]

Ok, I've tested the 3 Pokes out for a few battles and I think that Gothitelle can run a decent 3 Attack set with Taunt.

@ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Charge Beam

This fulfills one challenge, and is pretty decent as well. Taunt is better than Substitute in this situation for preventing Roar along with status and hazards. Charge Beam replaces Calm Mind in the offensive boosting department, and the damage it inflicts can rack up (misses are horribly annoying though since this set doesn't invest too significantly in its defenses). Psychic is for STAB and is better than Psyshock for its higher power (plus there are fewer common Special Walls than physical walls). Signal Beam provides decent coverage and is my best move to hit Dark types with (though they'll kill regardless with the right prediction). The EV spread is to outrun Adamant Cacturne and Modest Exeggutor and hit them (hopefully) with Signal Beam. The main problem with this set is the lack of defense investment, meaning that you can't set up to +6 on something like (non-Clear Smog) Amoonguss and expect to KO Absol or Skuntank while surviving a Night Slash or Crunch. It also has trouble breaking through Klang and Probopass without taking massive damage, even with Taunt and Charge Beam. So a Fighting-type would be an excellent partner to handle both problems (maybe a Dark-Fighting-Psychic core?)

Edit 1: I made this anti-lead Exploud set before I made the Gothitelle set, but I had been having trouble finding a good move for the last slot while still keeping to the anti-lead and two-non-attack move challenge. I think I have found the best move for the situation now.

@ Leftovers
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 84 HP / 248 SAtk / 176 Spd
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Surf
- Hyper Voice
- Protect

The Speed EVs are set to outspeed Adamant Rampardos and Surf it to death. Taunt stops the slower, Sturdy Stealth Rock users in their tracks, and Surf brings them down pretty low. Protect is used for a few different reasons: it blocks Fake Out, scouts Choice users, and lets Exploud recover enough HP to have a decent chance to survive standard Golem's Earthquake and Sucker Punch combo and retaliate with two Surfs. The combo of Taunt and Hyper Voice also helps deal with Garbodor and Cacturne to a certain extent. Unfortunately, without Focus Blast, special defensive variants of Probopass and Bastiodon can avoid the 2HKO with Surf, but at least they are Taunted. Taunt has been the most useful move on Exploud of course, since no one ever expects it.

I'll edit in the Serperior that I'm testing when I find more effective sets.

[melvni]

In regards to the Gothitelle set with no attacks challenge (which I'm not entering at the moment at least since I don't fully feel like testing this out at the moment), I actually had already been running a Gothorita set that satisfies that specification on a team I was running with both the Goths (I wanted to test out the effectiveness of being able to switch between shadow taggers and Gothorita's 60/70/85 defenses with Eviolite are the equivalent of what a Pokemon with 60/129.5/136.5 or 60/114/152 would have after investment depending on whether you run 252 HP/252 Def+ or 252 HP/252 SpDef+), and I imagine Gothitelle can probably run something similar.

The Gothorita version of the set I was running was

Gothorita@Eviolite
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
Bold Nature
Shadow Tag
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Taunt
~Rest

It's great for stalling out Choice-locked mons, Life Orbers that either don't boost or are slower and can't hurt it enough to beat it before they die, and weak defensive mons without more than two damaging moves. Besides PP stalling against things that can't break it (which having 128 PP and the ability to not do anything for 32 turns while staying in that Rest brings is very good for), it can also provide the team with temporary Screen support or get members in without fear of nasty status moves. I imagine Gothitelle could run a similar set, albeit less bulky (though Gothitelle could use Leftovers or Light Clay in place of Eviolite). The biggest flaw I have found is that there will be at least one turn where Taunt has worn off and Rest hasn't yet, so phazers will have a turn to Roar or Whirlwind you out when you need to recover and Taunters will have a turn to ruin your fun if you let them amongst other things.

[erisia]

Originally Posted by Fat TropiOUs

Exploud @ Leftovers
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 164 Spd / 252 SAtk / 92 HP
Modest Nature
- Focus Blast
- Hyper Voice
- Substitute
- Work Up

Perfect Coverage out of champion Shedinja thanks to Scrappy. Hyper Voice for reliable STAB move. Focus Blast complements Hyper Voice nicely by hitting all resists and fellow Normal-types hard. Sub to shield from revenge kill and protect you just in case that Focus Blast misses(lol always). Work Up to boost its special Attack and because it really doesn't need any extra coverage.

Max special Attack for maximum damage, fast Enough to outspeed standard defensive missy that will do nothing to you, giving you a free sub, rest is in bulk.

I thought up a similar set last night, although it had some slight alterations.

Exploud @ Leftovers
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 48 Def / 252 SpA / 48 SpD / 160 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Fake Tears
- Hyper Voice
- Focus Blast

Fake Tears provides a bigger boost in power, and by providing this set with hazard support (from Omanyte!), opponents will be weary to switch out to negate the -2SpD. Also, EVing Exploud's defenses is actually more efficient than EVing his HP; at this level, it gives it both greater physical and special bulk.

[Fun With Knives]

Originally Posted by Fat Molk

contrary ofc would beat it out when released

Contrary is going to get Serp banned. Just saying.

I won't be part of this because I have other priorities, but I will say I don't expect much from Omanyte. 35 base HP and four fairly common weaknesses do not bode well for the little fellow. With B2W2's omnipresence of Giga Drain, and the existence of powerhouses like Zangoose, Cinccino, Eelektross (might I add that I don't see enough of the poor fellow), and special tanks like Gardevoir and Gothitelle, hell, Seviper and Heatmor get Giga Drain and the special power to outrun and mow down Omanyte. If it wants to run all three hazards, it's left with being completely walled by anything with Storm Drain or Water Absorb, or it can run its only Rock-type Special move (granted, there's what, two of them total), which has 8 uses and poor coverage. Ice Beam is more viable type-wise, but it's weaker without STAB.

[BROStime]

IN ! Ill try them all.