Creative (and good) Movesets Mk II (READ THE OP FIRST)

[sax king]

Moderator Note: This is a series of topics; you can find the original thread here. This is a continuation of that thread, so feel free to look up even more creative sets over there!

Many claim that creativity is dead. But this is just plain wrong. I guarantee that at least one pokemon on every team has some sort of creative aspect to it. This is a place to disprove the death of creativity. Post any creative sets here. But there are a few rules.

1. Don't post something if it is simply just underated, but not particularly creative. I don't care how underated you claim Butterfly Dance Venomoth is, it's not particularly creative. I understand that it is underated, but this is for custom sets that can't be found elsewhere.
2. Make it good. Sometimes people post creative movesets that just plain aren't good. Remember, a creative moveset doesn't have to be on a bad pokemon or with a bad move. So don't post your physical Alakazam here saying "but what about the suprise factor?"
3. Creative =/= Gimmick. Not every set here has to be a gimmick, and to be honest, Gimmicks aren't really too good or useful. All we want are just creative movesets that will break away from the standards, but will still be usable.
4. If you are going to post here, you have to contribute something useful. Don't just say "lolz specs machamp sux". Put some substance into your post. In fact, most post should either be sets or comments on sets.
5. Please post complete sets. If you say "I like Amnesia Zuruzukin", please include a spread, item, moveset, and comments.
6. YOU MUST COMMENT ON THE SET ABOVE YOU. If there isn't a set above you, look back to the last set posted. This may seem annoying at first, but it is to be sure that there aren't just sets flooding in, and that we can get comments on our sets. If you post something and notice that something has been added while you were typing, you aren't going to be forced to edit your post, but it would be nice.
7. The best sets, that are truly creative and useful and have gotten good comments, will be edited into the OP.

Originally Posted by Fat Katakiri

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Tailwind
- Roost

Apparently Hydreigon got Tailwind in BW2 and to be honest, Hydreigon is almost everything I was looking for in a Tailwind user and imo it is the most reliable user of Tailwind around. Yeah Tornadus has Prankster but it can't switch in even half as often as Hydreigon. But as I was saying, Hydreigon works because there are so few things in this game that look at Hydreigon and go "I can switch into that" or "I can set up on that" and it becomes more of a "okay, what do I want to sack" situation.

To start: Modest Life Orb Draco Meteor; the end. Fire Blast for coverage is far better than what Latios can provide even if he wasn't Pursuit weak. Once Tailwind is up, just...forget your everything that could revenge Hydreigon without priority because it's not going to; not even Ditto can do anything. Probably the best thing about that coverage on Hydreigon is that the only Pokemon that really could switch in safely, bar the pink blobs, are Heatran and Tyranitar and even they are KOed by 2 Full-power Draco Meteors, if they're not running a defensive spread, which can easily be arranged by forcing them out with a switch after the first one.

Of course being at -2 from Draco opens some doors for some undesirable conditions but when Tailwind's up, Hydreigon's team is still at a major advantage as checks for some Pokemon become full counters now that they can out-pace them and for the most part it's all up to you about what you run with Hydreigon. Landorus and Jirachi can now curb-stomp the Base 108+s that would normally laugh at them, Mamoswine becomes terrifying, and Dragonite, who also gets Tailwind, becomes a borderline superhero. Those are just some examples of things that benefit greatly from Tailwind even for just 2 turns. I personally run Kyurem as Hydreigon's offensive partner for that deliciously potent Double Draco core with Earth Power & Focus Blast covering everything Hydreigon doesn't, including Rain Steels. (The strategy transferred over from it's Uber counterpart extremely well btw. I've been using it for almost a week now while being pretty high on the ladder.)

This set is just a blast to use and it works perfectly in that weird way that Agilitygross worked in 4th Gen but Tailwind makes it a team player.
Superpower can be used over Roost to deal with blobs, Heatran, and Tyranitar but losing that recovery is a hefty price.

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

Cobalion @ Expert Belt
EVs: 28 Atk / 230 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Close Combat
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Taunt

All out attacker Cobalion is very good actually. Check out some calcs:

• HP Ice vs 252 Gliscor: 100.28 - 119.2%
• HP Ice vs 200 Landorus-T: 102.71 - 120.86%
• HP Ice vs 4 SpD Dragonite (w/o MS): 86.06 - 102.47%
• HP Ice vs Naive Salamence: 114.5 - 134.74%
• HP Ice vs 4 HP Breloom: 80.53 - 95.41%, ohko after SR, 1 LO round and ss damage while you easily tank one Mach Punch (69.96 - 82.97%)
• Volt Switch vs 56 HP Gyarados: 82.02 - 97.39%, OHKO after SR and lefties
• Volt Switch vs 252 HP Skarmory: 56.88 - 66.76%
• Volt Switch vs 4 SpD Starmie: 62.45 - 74.32%
• Close Combat vs 4 HP / 252 Blissey: 88.65 - 104.9%, ohko after SR
• Close Combat vs 4 HP Terrakion: 100 - 117.9%
• Close Combat vs 0 HP Heatran: 86.99 - 102.47%, ohko after SR 93.75% of the times

Cobalion is a very useful pivot for offensive teams, with it's useful resistances, awesome physical bulk and good speed. Cobalion is the closest thing you can get to a fast offensive Steel type that can keep momentum. He provides your team with a check to Outraging dragons, easily tanking even a +2 Outrage from all of them and ohkoing back with HP Ice. He also is a decent Gliscor / Landorus-T lure, as not many people expect HP Ice. He is also a wonderful Gyarados check, taking 52.01 - 61.3% from a +1 Waterfall and ohkoing back with Volt Switch (Gyarados can Sub up to take the Volt Switch, but then you get to go to your Scarfer that can outspeed and ohko Gyarados) after SR. Volt Switch is amazing for offensive teams, keeping momentum and damaging checks and counters, such as Starmie and Skarmory. He is also a very reliable SR setter, as his bulk allows him to set it up multiple times with ease. Finally a 4x resistance to SR, immunity to SS damage, Toxic and T-Spikes and no LO recoil mean that Cobalion is one of the most resilient pokes around.

In the last slot you can use Stone Edge if you alread have a SR setter, to break Gyarados's subs without switching out, deal better damage to Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T (the latter is ohkoes after SR) than HP Ice and prevent any Volcarona from setting up on you. Taunt is also a decent option to prevent any pesky Forretress, Skarmory and Deoxys-D from setting up on you.

[NixHex]

Okay, the original thread reached something like 111 pages so we're restarting now. Read the OP and have fun!

[BlackLight]

Its the start of something new! (My damn keyboard has no music note RAR)

Okay, so Starmie, it turns out, has had both Reflect and Light Screen for a while, and I have seen very little on the subject. Starmie is actually a great 'mon for setting up screens, because of its massive Speed stat and reasonable defenses.
Starmie

Light Clay
Timid
252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 Defense (bulky)
OR
4 HP, 252 Sp Attack, 252 Speed (offensive)

Hydro Pump/Thunderbolt
Reflect
Light Screen
Recover/Ice Beam/Rapid Spin/Thunder Wave

Starmie's Speed, decent defenses, and access to reliable recovery make a good case for its use as a Dual Screener. The obvious screens are there for a reason, while Light Clay lets the screens stay up for eight turns, and Recover allows Starmie to heal up so it can put them up again. Hydro Pump ensures that Starmie does not become Taunt bait. Alternatively, one could use a more offensive set with BoltBeam. What it lacks in power, it makes up in coverage. Or, you could use whatever moves you need to cover threats to your team. Starmie's flexible on attacking options. Other options include the everuseful Rapid Spin, and Thunder Wave, which can slow down switch ins and setup sweepers, allowing you to perform the correct move.
There are now two sets of EVs. The first set allows for maximum durability, which is better for balanced or bulky teams. With this spread, Starmie will be able to switch in and set up screens, then switch out and possibly come back in later to repeat the performance. One should probably use Hydro Pump and a support option. The other spread, as suggested by Shovel, is made for Hyper Offense Teams. With this spread, Starmie will be able to set up immediately, and then begin attacking with more powerful attacks than before, but at the cost of some durability. Ideally, one would use either Hydro Pump and a coverage move, or BoltBeam.
Obviously, this set aims to set up screens and switch to someone who can abuse them. Starmie also can serve as a revenge killer on the side, but lack of investment makes Starmie's attacks easier to take than normal. Starmie's great speed, however, makes setting up both screens an easy job. CB Scizor using U-Turn is only capable of landing a 2HKO after Reflect (66.66 - 78.39%), while CSpecs Chandelure is maxes out at 98.14% damage with Shadow Ball, assuming Light Screen. This guarantees that Starmie will be able to set up both screens before fainting, assuming Starmie outspeeds (likely, due to base 115 Speed) and it isn't any more powerful than CSpecs Chandelure's Shadow Ball. The HO EVs are slightly less bulky, but Starmie will still survive a CB U-Turn from Scizor (barely).
Starmie's job is to relieve stress on set up sweepers and frailer attackers, so they make good teammates for Starmie, being able to abuse these screens to the fullest. Starmie also would like entry hazards removed, as would everyone minus Reuniclus, so Rapid Spin support is nice as well, although not mandatory.
EDIT: Added offensive EVs for a Hyper Offensive set, suggested by Shovel, as well as Rapid Spin and Thunder Wave, as suggested by Shovel and ThePillsburyDoughBoy. Thanks guys!

[Shovel]

Originally Posted by Fat BlackLight

Starmie@Light Clay
252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 Defense
Timid Nature
• Hydro Pump/Thunderbolt
• Reflect
• Light Screen
• Recover/Ice Beam

Mind you, Starmie also gets Rapid Spin (but it may not want to give up I moveslot, I see that).

In any case, good job on posting a decent first set to start off the thread! With Starmie's already frightening presence, it can easily force a switch and set-up whatever screen is relevant. Then, it can use it's Speed to set up the next screen.

Since Starmie isnt the bulkiest of pokemon to do this, I think it would be better to make this set for a Hyper Offensive team. Keeping this in mind, and alternate spread of 4 Hp/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spd can be used so that Starmie can keep up the offense of the team and not fail in that department. (This set can also be used for standard teams, where Starmie is still a threat and has good coverage [if boltbeam]).

With your investment in Hp though, this probably is better for standard teams (60/85/85 defenses aren't terrible, except for Hp there). I want to test it before I make further assumptions, but I kind of like it.

Do you typically expect to use this as a lead, or what?

(On a side note, I just thought that I'd mention; this Starmie is listed in the Other Options of Starmie, with the comment: "Access to Reflect and Light Screen enables Starmie to play the role of a dedicated team supporter, but there are other, better users of dual screens." That doesn't automatically make it bad or unoriginal though.)

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

Starmie@Light Clay
252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 Defense
Timid Nature

• Hydro Pump
• Reflect
• Light Screen
• Rapid Spin / Thunder Wave

Thunder Wave would be a good option as well since it prevents it from becoming setup bait from certain boosters. Rapid Spin gives it a cool niche for being able to prevent SR from being set while dual screening at the same time. The only crappy thing about Starmie as a dual screener is its weaknesses to Volt-Turn.

Now for my contribution:

Gengar (F) @ Life Orb (might change to Lefties Lefties)
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Protect
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Destiny Bond is an interesting and underused 1 for 1 trade move that Gengar can utilize quite easily with its frail defenses. The idea here is that at least take down one target with LO boosted attacks and then on the porceeding revenge kill (most likely a Pursuit trapper) use Destiny Bond to KO them. Protect is there to scout for Choice Scarf users and for surprise priority moves. Protect is also useful to see if your opponent wants to use an attacking move against you like Tentacruel's Scald. Works great with Pokemon that have trouble with Scizor, Tyranitar, and Tentacruel. However I have been thinking about using Leftovers so the opponent can not LO or SS stall me if I mispredict with Destiny Bond. It would get the added bonus of giving Gengar a little bit of recovery with Protect, but it would lose a lot of power.

[G-Von]

Reuniclus@Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EV's: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Def (0 Speed IV's)
Quiet Nature
-Calm Mind
-Trick Room
-Focus Blast
-Shadow Ball

This set has worked wonders for me. This is how it works: switch into something non-threatening and set up a Calm Mind as they switch out into something else. If it is something that can cause damage but not kill you, use Trick room and begin to sweep. If it's something devastatingly powerful, it would be best to switch out. Yes, that is a flaw with this set, but this set is more for late game sweeping when you already took care of the stuff that can harm Reuniclus. after the 2-turn set up, begin to fire off +1 SB's and +1 Focus Misses like no tomorrow. The reason why I do not run Psychic is because replacing either one of his moves would result in being walled by either Psychic types or Dark types. Here are some damage calcs:

+1 Focus Miss vs 248/0 Scizor: 324-382 (94.46 - 111.37%) 62.5% chance to OHKO
+1 Shadow Ball vs 0/0 Salamence: 243-287 (73.41 - 86.7%) 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 Focus Miss vs 252/0 Chansey: 348-410 (49.43 - 58.23%) 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 Focus Miss vs 252/0 Blissey: 418-494 (58.54 - 69.18%) 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 Focus Miss vs 4/0 Terrakion in Sand: 396-468 (122.22 - 144.44%) OHKO
+1 Shadow Ball vs 252/0 Gliscor: 230-271 (64.97 - 76.55%) guaranteed 2HKO
+1 Focus Miss vs 252/232+ Skarmory: 250-295 (74.85 - 88.32%) 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 Focus Miss vs 252/252+ Tyranitar: (128.71 - 152.47%) guaranteed OHKO
+1 Focus Miss vs 252/0 Politoed: (70.57 - 83.07%) 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 Focus Miss vs 252/120+ Ninetales: (63.14 - 74.28%) -- 2HKO (nearly a chance to OHKO after SR)
+1 Focus Blast vs 252/84+ Abomasnow: (134.37 - 158.33%) guaranteed OHKO

[BlackLight]

Originally Posted by Fat Shovel

Mind you, Starmie also gets Rapid Spin (but it may not want to give up I moveslot, I see that).

In any case, good job on posting a decent first set to start off the thread! With Starmie's already frightening presence, it can easily force a switch and set-up whatever screen is relevant. Then, it can use it's Speed to set up the next screen.

Since Starmie isnt the bulkiest of pokemon to do this, I think it would be better to make this set for a Hyper Offensive team. Keeping this in mind, and alternate spread of 4 Hp/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spd can be used so that Starmie can keep up the offense of the team and not fail in that department. (This set can also be used for standard teams, where Starmie is still a threat and has good coverage [if boltbeam]).

With your investment in Hp though, this probably is better for standard teams (60/85/85 defenses aren't terrible, except for Hp there). I want to test it before I make further assumptions, but I kind of like it.

Do you typically expect to use this as a lead, or what?

(On a side note, I just thought that I'd mention; this Starmie is listed in the Other Options of Starmie, with the comment: "Access to Reflect and Light Screen enables Starmie to play the role of a dedicated team supporter, but there are other, better users of dual screens." That doesn't automatically make it bad or unoriginal though.)

Rapid Spin could make the set, as an emergency spin. Its not like Starmie will be using its attacking options a lot, so it could function as a Spinner on top of its Screening job. The only thing is that Dual Screening would generally take precedence over Spinning, since that is the point of the set. Still a good idea, I'll add a slash for it in the set.
Regarding Hyper Offense, I think your revised EVs might work well, with an offensive moveset. I have little experience regarding Hyper Offense, so I'll add this as well, see if it works.
Regarding it being a lead, a lot of teams use a U-Turn or Volt Switch lead, so that they can grab the advantage immediately after. Due to Starmie's typing, this is a problem with the bulky set, since it likes to stay in good shape for repetitive screen setting. On HO, it will work fine, since (I think) Starmie only needs to come in once and set up, so it can do that. Basically, if you don't see U-Turn or Volt Switch that can beat Starmie, you should be okay to lead with it.

Originally Posted by Fat ThePillsburyDoughBoy

Thunder Wave would be a good option as well since it prevents it from becoming setup bait from certain boosters. Rapid Spin gives it a cool niche for being able to prevent SR from being set while dual screening at the same time. The only crappy thing about Starmie as a dual screener is its weaknesses to Volt-Turn.

Rapid Spin is good because its fairly unique to Stamie, and it gives it a niche. Thunder Wave is a little less useful, but it would be handy for scouting switch ins, so you can set up the proper screen to counter its attack. I'll add both to the set.

Originally Posted by Fat ThePillsburyDoughBoy

Gengar (F) @ Life Orb (might change to Lefties Lefties)
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Protect
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Destiny Bond is an interesting and underused 1 for 1 trade move that Gengar can utilize quite easily with its frail defenses. The idea here is that at least take down one target with LO boosted attacks and then on the porceeding revenge kill (most likely a Pursuit trapper) use Destiny Bond to KO them. Protect is there to scout for Choice Scarf users and for surprise priority moves. Protect is also useful to see if your opponent wants to use an attacking move against you like Tentacruel's Scald. Works great with Pokemon that have trouble with Scizor, Tyranitar, and Tentacruel. However I have been thinking about using Leftovers so the opponent can not LO or SS stall me if I mispredict with Destiny Bond. It would get the added bonus of giving Gengar a little bit of recovery with Protect, but it would lose a lot of power.

I would keep the Life Orb, personally. The survivability might seem good until you get 0HKO'd because you didn't hit hard enough. That being said, you may just want to slash that in there, if Gengar's teammates can deal enough damage without him, the healing would be very helpful.

[Kiyo]

Genesect @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rock Polish
- Flamethrower / Bug Buzz
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Someone used this set against me when i was laddering the other night and I was caught completely off guard. I feel like this set is mainly effective right now because everyone expects a choice scarf genesect and is usually scared off by a super-effective move and is forced to switch. So if you can force a switch and get up a rock polish it can be pretty devastating to an unprepared team. The choice of flamethrower or bug buzz is really up to what team you're using this on. And for obvious reasons you could run thunderbolt over Thunder.

[Jimera0]

Originally Posted by Fat Kiyo

Genesect @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rock Polish
- Flamethrower / Bug Buzz
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Someone used this set against me when i was laddering the other night and I was caught completely off guard. I feel like this set is mainly effective right now because everyone expects a choice scarf genesect and is usually scared off by a super-effective move and is forced to switch. So if you can force a switch and get up a rock polish it can be pretty devastating to an unprepared team. The choice of flamethrower or bug buzz is really up to what team you're using this on. And for obvious reasons you could run thunderbolt over Thunder.

I've been reading the genesect thread for a while and I'm afraid to tell you that this is a well known set that's been running around DW for a while. Seeing as there aren't any DW analyses or anything it's understandable that you wouldn't know that this set isn't anything new or anything but it has to be pointed out.

[Kiyo]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

I've been reading the genesect thread for a while and I'm afraid to tell you that this is a well known set that's been running around DW for a while. Seeing as there aren't any DW analyses or anything it's understandable that you wouldn't know that this set isn't anything new or anything but it has to be pointed out.

Haha thanks, I perused for like 2 seconds on the genesect thread in OU and only found hone claws. I always forget about dream world.

[X5Dragon]

Great potential that Genesect set, although I think it should maintain at least one stab and the other 2 for ideal coverage.




Articuno @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest/ Timid Nature

- Substitute
- Agility
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam

or

- Substitute
- Icy Wind
- Hurricane
- HP Water/Ground


I saw the new NU analysis being proposed and with a few tweaks I think it deserves a mention. Rain Offense is all the rage now, so this Articuno wouldn't feel out of pace. You can say something that you can't about the other two Rain Drugged Therians, this one can use two Stabs :)

Basically you have two routes to go, either find a good place to set a sub, press turbo, and then spam to your delight. Or, the more sinster and prediction reliant option, and just because you hate that friggin Heatran, use Icy wind if you suspect a not so slow pokemon switching in, and then choose Hurricane or ice him again for the kill.

SR is always welcome...on the other side. Not to mention the friendly Politoed and Dugtrio/Steel Killer and spinner, nothing that forces you out of the way tbqh.

Edit:

Your under rain so chances are Heatran can't do a thing anyway so third option:

@Lum

- Agility
- HP Water/Ground
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam

Unfortunately I'm not a calc person so anyone who can do it in a breeze, thank you.

[Smaug 2]

Those Articuno sets look interesting; I would probably use the Substitute set to avoid being murdered by Scizor. That said, you have a massive SR weakness, (possibly) substitute, no healing, and only base 95 SpA. Though it has its uses, I would just use one of the more tried and true rain abusers.

Now for my set:

Porygon2@Eviolite
Calm
Trace
252 HP, 4 Def, 252 SpD
- Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Magic Coat
This set isn't as original as most of the sets in the previous thread, but I used this set on my sun team to great success. It serves as an excellent special wall thanks to the unusual EVs, and makes up for the lack of an actual status move with Discharge. Against rain teams, I invariably led with this duck. Opposing Politoed almost always used Toxic on turn one, which resulted in a poisoned Politoed. Magic Coat is also extremely useful against things like Ferrothorn, Skarmory, or defensive Heatran who think they can set up hazards/ status you/ phaze you.

[Ames]

As I posted in the last thread; while the Articuno set theoretically can work quite well, a similar set on Moltres does all the same things but BETTER because it cockblocks things which are usually a pain in the ass for rain, similarly to Volcarona.



Moltres @ Life Orb
Modest, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
-Agility
-Hurricane
-Fire Blast
-HP Water

Ruins Heatran with HP Water in the rain while he can't do much back anyways, can set up on a plethora of pokemon which like to come in on rain AND resists bullet punch, ice shard and mach punch.

[iamQmai]

Is there anything HP water hits harder than HP ground? other than Aerodactyl I cant think of any.

Anyway, in the last few weeks, when i've played, i've been playing with a Scarf Tentacruel. I dont know if it's very creative, but it's unusual and no-one expects it.

Tentacruel @ Choice Scarf
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4HP/Def/SpD
Modest/Timid (I use Modest with Scarf, Timid with Specs if I ever use it)
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam(/Blizzard in hail)
Giga Drain
Sludge Wave/HP Fire

HP Fire is used if it isnt on a rain team, if you dont use it however Ferrothorn with wall you badly.

[Antihaxxer]

With Rain ? HP Water is far more superior than HP ground. Without Rain, yes, Hidden Power Ground / Rock seems better

[Shovel]

Originally Posted by Fat X5Dragon

Articuno @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest/ Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Agility
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam
/
- Substitute
- Icy Wind
- Hurricane
- HP Water/Ground
/
@Lum
- Agility
- HP Water/Ground
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam

Of all of them, the first set is probably "most" effective, in my opinion, though Hp Ground > Ice Beam may be better (dont quote me on that), for coverage purposes. Also, with Stealth Rocks and Substitute, along with agility, I think a Petaya berry could be very useful so that your max damage output can increase (and Agility = Speed, so cool). I'm personally not seeing this pokemon rising to stardom, but I think it has a lot of potential.

Originally Posted by Fat Smaug 2

Porygon2@Eviolite
Calm
Trace
252 HP, 4 Def, 252 SpD
- Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Magic Coat

Like you said, it can be effective. Proper (can be shortened to pro, if you will) prediction will make this set a lot more useful. Do you run Special Defense due to the advent of Rain teams? Otherwise, especially because you said it was under the sun, Terrakion may be a huge problem.
However, most teams come equipped with a counter, so, that. But, I think either mixed defenses, or to a greater extent defense, is probably going to due a little better. Fighting type are everywhere. MyLittleKeldeo
I think this has good potential the first time you utilize it, though :D

Originally Posted by Fat Ames

Moltres @ Life Orb
Modest, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
-Agility
-Hurricane
-Fire Blast
-HP Water

Oh, Moltres. That guy c: Mostly what I said about Articuno, sorry :p Also, even in rain, I would suggest HP Ground, as the main counter will generally be Heatran, and it has better coverage with your other moves. Do you have any replays of this? I dont generally ask, but I wanted to see HP Water at play, and how Moltres adapts to the current metagame.

Originally Posted by Fat iamQmai

Tentacruel @ Choice Scarf
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4HP/Def/SpD
Modest/Timid
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam(/Blizzard in hail)
Giga Drain
Sludge Wave/HP Fire

Tentacruel is pretty darn awesome, to say the least. But, looking pasts it's cool factor, how scary is this guy's 80 base Special Attack?
Even with a scarf, I think Pokemon will still be able to eat it's attacks. And, Hp Fire probably should be the main slash, but that is opinion based. I think reliably killing > Surprise kills, but, if you base a team around him (don't), Tentacruel might net 2 kills, instead of one.

Any logs of this set would be helpful. In theory it looks cool; 100 base speed is awesome :D But, I think even a Swords Dance set would work better :L



Anyway, I have a bad Kingdra set that has led me to many victories on many occasions, due to the diverse moves that I provided. It is very similar to the already posted "Mixed Dragon Dance," however, it was made for a sun team as a counter to Heatran (meaning obligatory Water Stab is nullified), so I had to work my way around it's walling my Kingdra.

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 144 Spd / 112 Atk / 252 SAtk
Mild Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Ice Beam

Dragon Dance is definitely physical wall bait, especially when the sun is up. HP Ground, as stated, is there to hit opposing Heatran which have the potential to really hurt sun teams. Hp Fire used to be in this spot, but I never found it as useful. In any case, I believe HP Ground and Ice Beam receive near perfect if not perfect coverage, while Outrage is one of the best Stab moves. This is especially the case after some Dragon Dances.

The Evs are a little arsed, as all I did was swap them around from the "Mixed Dragon Dance" set to see fit to my new set. Max Special attack because Outrage + Dragon Dance, and Dragon Dance boosts speed whilst Life Orb allows for stronger attacks on the special side. Mild Nature allows for maximum special attack, while taking out defense in the process (Mind you, this is made to combat Heatrans, which are generally Special Attackers).

My favourite kind of Pokemon are ones that can potentially hit from both sides. Not only does this make the opponent have to predict better, but it can also confuse them. Kingdra is a really great Mixed attacker, and Dragon Dance helps it achieve maximum confusion with it's special moves.

The only problem I see with excluding Hp Fire, is Ferrothorn. But, with teammates such as Sunny Day Heatran, I think this Kingdra does good to it's name, without making me have to sacrifice a team slot for something "better," for the simple case of it being able to reliably take out opposing Pokemon, rather than just surprise them and then get taken out one hit.

[Cuban Vader]

Originally Posted by Fat Ames

As I posted in the last thread; while the Articuno set theoretically can work quite well, a similar set on Moltres does all the same things but BETTER because it cockblocks things which are usually a pain in the ass for rain, similarly to Volcarona.



Moltres @ Life Orb
Modest, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
-Agility
-Hurricane
-Fire Blast
-HP Water

Ruins Heatran with HP Water in the rain while he can't do much back anyways, can set up on a plethora of pokemon which like to come in on rain AND resists bullet punch, ice shard and mach punch.

I'm considering trying this over Volc on my rain team. What advantages would you say this has over the quiver dance Volc? I feel like this is overall outclassed

[BlackLight]

Originally Posted by Fat Cuban Vader

I'm considering trying this over Volc on my rain team. What advantages would you say this has over the quiver dance Volc? I feel like this is overall outclassed

STAB Hurricane is a huge plus for Moltres. It gets a large number of 2HKOs that would otherwise be impossible. While Agility doesn't boost Sp Attack like Quiver Dance does, it does remove the ability to revenge Moltres with stuff like CS Terrakion. Finally, Moltres has a much better physical bulk than Volcarona, so it makes setting up much easier.
That being said, I would much rather run Roost over Agility on Moltres. It allows Moltres to heal itself, as well as to turn itself into a tank, which is more what a rain team would need than a sweeper.

[Jimbon]

Originally Posted by Fat X5Dragon

Articuno @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest/ Timid Nature

- Substitute
- Agility
- Hurricane
- Ice Beam

Originally Posted by Fat Ames

Moltres @ Life Orb
Modest, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
-Agility
-Hurricane
-Fire Blast
-HP Water

For these sets, I can't help feeling that Roost would be a much better option over Agility. While Agility has its uses, it's kinda hard find a free turn to set up when you're so weak to Rocks and priority. Not to mention that neither of these boast the best offensive stats, so even if you find time to set up, there are a number of common threats that wall both for days, as they can't beat said special walls without some form of reliable recovery.

Roost would actually give you the recovery you need, especially when both mons are weak to Stealth Rock. I appreciate you will be carrying a spinner, but you can't spin everytime, and Articuno takes 75% from SR and a Substitute, meaning only 3 turns of Life Orb recoil. Sub Roost would actually allow you to beat common defensive threats such as Slowbro, Jellicent, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, etc.

[Professor Science]

Originally Posted by Fat Shovel

Anyway, I have a bad Kingdra set that has led me to many victories on many occasions, due to the diverse moves that I provided. It is very similar to the already posted "Mixed Dragon Dance," however, it was made for a sun team as a counter to Heatran (meaning obligatory Water Stab is nullified), so I had to work my way around it's walling my Kingdra.

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 144 Spd / 112 Atk / 252 SAtk
Mild Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Ice Beam

Dragon Dance is definitely physical wall bait, especially when the sun is up. HP Ground, as stated, is there to hit opposing Heatran which have the potential to really hurt sun teams. Hp Fire used to be in this spot, but I never found it as useful. In any case, I believe HP Ground and Ice Beam receive near perfect if not perfect coverage, while Outrage is one of the best Stab moves. This is especially the case after some Dragon Dances.

The Evs are a little arsed, as all I did was swap them around from the "Mixed Dragon Dance" set to see fit to my new set. Max Special attack because Outrage + Dragon Dance, and Dragon Dance boosts speed whilst Life Orb allows for stronger attacks on the special side. Mild Nature allows for maximum special attack, while taking out defense in the process (Mind you, this is made to combat Heatrans, which are generally Special Attackers).

My favourite kind of Pokemon are ones that can potentially hit from both sides. Not only does this make the opponent have to predict better, but it can also confuse them. Kingdra is a really great Mixed attacker, and Dragon Dance helps it achieve maximum confusion with it's special moves.

The only problem I see with excluding Hp Fire, is Ferrothorn. But, with teammates such as Sunny Day Heatran, I think this Kingdra does good to it's name, without making me have to sacrifice a team slot for something "better," for the simple case of it being able to reliably take out opposing Pokemon, rather than just surprise them and then get taken out one hit.

It looks good. However, I'm questioning the use of Ice Beam here. Dragon and Ground already have near-perfect coverage, and nothing that resists both is weak to Ice. There are better options available. I would suggest Hydro Pump as a special STAB, since it tears through Skarmory, which would otherwise be this set's biggest counter imo. With your EVs, Hydro Pump gets a guaranteed OHKO on physically defensive Skarm after rocks, and a guaranteed 2HKO in sun after rocks. The only problem I can see with that is not having great coverage if you don't want to lock yourself into Outrage. If that's a problem, I'd suggest Dragon Pulse instead.
Anyway thats just a theorymon so take it with a grain of sand.

[Sewa]

Well, I'll post this celebi set X3


Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 76 HP / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover/U-Turn/Baton Pass/Heal Bell
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power

I find this lure Celebi extermely effective that I use it quite in every team I create. It primary is to stop Rotom-Scizor core by coming in Romot-W's Volt Switch and lure Scizor, that is KOed 100% of the time (bar rain). Giga Drain is for stab and recovery. Since it's hard for Celebi to find a turn for Recover, I usually play with Baton Pass just to flee from Tyranitar. Earth Power is for luring Heatran and to dent Tentacruel and CMRachi. It counters Keldeo too and sponges any Politoed attack.
I gave max SpAtk with Modest so that I can do serious damage even with low BP moves and enough speed to outrun any non-scarf Heatran and Modest/Adamant Lucario. The rest went in HP to give it some bulk.
This set is walled by any dragon, so it works well with steel types that can switch in outrage/draco meteor.

[BlackLight]

Originally Posted by Fat Sewa

Well, I'll post this celebi set X3


Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 76 HP / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Recover/U-Turn/Baton Pass/Heal Bell
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power

I find this lure Celebi extermely effective that I use it quite in every team I create. It primary is to stop Rotom-Scizor core by coming in Romot-W's Volt Switch and lure Scizor, that is KOed 100% of the time (bar rain). Giga Drain is for stab and recovery. Since it's hard for Celebi to find a turn for Recover, I usually play with Baton Pass just to flee from Tyranitar. Earth Power is for luring Heatran and to dent Tentacruel and CMRachi. It counters Keldeo too and sponges any Politoed attack.
I gave max SpAtk with Modest so that I can do serious damage even with low BP moves and enough speed to outrun any non-scarf Heatran and Modest/Adamant Lucario. The rest went in HP to give it some bulk.
This set is walled by any dragon, so it works well with steel types that can switch in outrage/draco meteor.

This set is very similar to the Navi set onsite. That being said, it isn't used much, and can startle some opponents.
Baton Pass should not be used here. Celebi has no way to boost its stats, so the only thing it will end up giving to its partners is stat drops, which is not good. U-Turn actually does damage, and it doesn't pass stat drops, either. Recover and Heal Bell, however, can make this set unique, as it can provide either an offensive tank, or a status healer with offensive prowess and bulk.

[Sewa]

Originally Posted by Fat BlackLight

This set is very similar to the Navi set onsite. That being said, it isn't used much, and can startle some opponents.
Baton Pass should not be used here. Celebi has no way to boost its stats, so the only thing it will end up giving to its partners is stat drops, which is not good. U-Turn actually does damage, and it doesn't pass stat drops, either. Recover and Heal Bell, however, can make this set unique, as it can provide either an offensive tank, or a status healer with offensive prowess and bulk.

Well, didn't see it >.<
The advantage of Baton Pass is that it bypasses Pursuit, unlike U-turn.
Navi set, however, can't kill Scizor, iirc

[Arcticblast]

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 156 SAtk / 100 SDef
Calm Nature
- Scald / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Roar / Protect
- Toxic / Stealth Rock

Just a little something I've been running on a Rain team. I've been surprised with how well it works, to be honest. Empoleon's actually pretty sturdy (this set can take Timid Volcarona's +1 HP Ground, which was the original point of the set) and with the Special Attack EVs it hits really hard.

[BlackLight]

Originally Posted by Fat Sewa

Well, didn't see it >.<
The advantage of Baton Pass is that it bypasses Pursuit, unlike U-turn.
Navi set, however, can't kill Scizor, iirc

Navi can choose to run HP Fire if you want, but Ice, imo, is better anyways. Fair enough.
Also, I didn't know Baton Pass ignored Pursuit. Thanks for teaching me something new!