Darkrai is Getting Ladder-Tested

**Tobes** · Aug 10th, 2012, 3:27:03 PM

It is now official: Darkrai has received enough votes to be tested on the ladder. I'll be making a thread with the paragraph votes once the last few are in. I'll ask for Darkrai to be added to the ladder later today. I encourage you all to give the new ladder a shot and see how you like it. There'll be a feedback thread later, and at some point the council will vote to either officially unban Darkrai or reban it. We'll see how it goes.

Have fun!

~~superbadd~~ · Aug 10th, 2012, 3:28:21 PM

Omg, this exciting! Thank you. Gives me a reason to play DW now.

Sazandoringlps · Aug 10th, 2012, 3:45:12 PM

this is great
do you think that if its checked and counterd by enough things it would stay DW OU and possibly go down to Wifi OU?

Sewa · Aug 10th, 2012, 4:29:56 PM

Yay! Darkrai! ^w^

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sazandoringlps

this is great
do you think that if its checked and counterd by enough things it would stay DW OU and possibly go down to Wifi OU?

Dream World and Wifi have completely different ban lists and metagames, so I don't think it could have some chances on Wifi OU. There are people that think Excadrill is broken.

Perhaps, is there a chance for Skymin or other "close majority" bans to be retested?

jrrrrrrr · Aug 10th, 2012, 7:10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sewa

Dream World and Wifi have completely different ban lists and metagames, so I don't think it could have some chances on Wifi OU. There are people that think Excadrill is broken.

Our tier list is so much better, we need to start pushing OU towards our banlist. I'm pretty sure people actually want more bans in OU, which is pretty disturbing to me. It's going to be a sad day when all DW abilities are released =[

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sewa

Perhaps, is there a chance for Skymin or other "close majority" bans to be retested?

There's a very short list of things we want to look at, but I don't think Skymin is on it. For now we just want to try Darkrai

~~superbadd~~ · Aug 10th, 2012, 7:22:01 PM

^ I'm kind'v curious, what exactly is that list and what's on it? Does it involve blaziken and revamping the SS+Drizzle clause?

mtr · Aug 10th, 2012, 8:55:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat jrrrrrrr

Our tier list is so much better, we need to start pushing OU towards our banlist. I'm pretty sure people actually want more bans in OU, which is pretty disturbing to me. It's going to be a sad day when all DW abilities are released =[

There's a very short list of things we want to look at, but I don't think Skymin is on it. For now we just want to try Darkrai

I haven't played Dream World in a few years, but I am saddened that a Tiering Contributor such as yourself would make such a statement. Different people have different goals for a metagame. I know some players who would like to see Ferrothorn banned. Of course, he'll never be banned in OU, but that doesn't mean they are wrong to suggest it.

I'm sure you've read this post, but it says it better than I could. There's no such thing as a correct or incorrect philosophy on banning, merely different ones. I think it's great that people with different philosophies each have their own tier this generation.

Audiosurfer · Aug 10th, 2012, 9:18:48 PM

Sweet :) This'll be fun. Was this the revamp thing you hinted at or is there more to come?

**Tobes** · Aug 10th, 2012, 9:37:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

^ I'm kind'v curious, what exactly is that list and what's on it? Does it involve blaziken and revamping the SS+Drizzle clause?

We haven't decided on anything yet. At the moment we're just going to see how things go with Darkrai.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sewa

Perhaps, is there a chance for Skymin or other "close majority" bans to be retested?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Tobes

PS Skymin is still a cunt and will never be retested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Audiosurfer

Sweet :) This'll be fun. Was this the revamp thing you hinted at or is there more to come?

Yeah, it was. Hopefully this will have the nice little benefit rejuvenating the ladder as a bonus (judging by the response here I think it might), and if not we might try and think of something else to try (though one must keep in mind Dream World is quickly approaching the end of its lifespan).

jrrrrrrr · Aug 11th, 2012, 7:37:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat mtr

I haven't played Dream World in a few years, but I am saddened that a Tiering Contributor such as yourself would make such a statement. Different people have different goals for a metagame. I know some players who would like to see Ferrothorn banned. Of course, he'll never be banned in OU, but that doesn't mean they are wrong to suggest it.

I'm sure you've read this post, but it says it better than I could. There's no such thing as a correct or incorrect philosophy on banning, merely different ones. I think it's great that people with different philosophies each have their own tier this generation.

This post doesn't contradict anything I said in mine. I never called anyone or any philosophy wrong, I said that in my opinion ours is way better...which is a completely legitimate thing to say. Something can be good without being the best. So spare me the internet disappointment lecture. You should play DW more and youll see I was completely right :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

^ I'm kind'v curious, what exactly is that list and what's on it? Does it involve blaziken and revamping the SS+Drizzle clause?

We've only had brief discussions, there are no plans. But I'd personally like to look at Blaziken again, Deoxys and Deoxys-A, Kyurem-B, and I heard Tobes mention revamping the SS+Drizzle clause but idk about that

TheStarRapper · Aug 12th, 2012, 12:41:14 AM

Darkrai is coming?

Everyone grab a Heracross with sleep talk, no time to explain!

I would default to saying he would wreak havoc, but with Technilooms Mach punch and genesect's stab moves, I'm not sure. One thing for certain: checkable or not, he'll be a real threat.

White symphoni · Aug 12th, 2012, 2:35:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat jrrrrrrr

Our tier list is so much better, we need to start pushing OU towards our banlist. I'm pretty sure people actually want more bans in OU, which is pretty disturbing to me.

Finally,someone who thinks just like me :D

Darkrai.is finally being retested,this will certainly be fun.I'm looking forward to how it will make an impact on the metagame.

Bynine · Aug 14th, 2012, 10:08:27 AM

When you think about it... Anything that could counter Darkrai has to eat a Dark Void first (two if they're slower than Darkrai's high 125 base speed), therefore probably incapacitating them for the rest of the match. Similar comments could be made for Amoongus and Breloom, but they can have trouble finding something to switch in on, and they're certainly not fast enough to Spore before being hit by most things. This means that either you need something on your team to take Sleep (not an easy feat), or two counters to Darkrai, which I can't really think of, especially considering it can Trick.

Sewa · Aug 14th, 2012, 10:39:14 AM

Should I remember that Dark Void has the same accuracy of the worst attack in the game? Also, there are plenty of scarfers and priority abusers in DW meta. Scizor, Mamo, Breloom, etc..
Yeah, you need to find someone that has to take the sleep or the tricked scarf/specs, but you needed it yet before the unban of Darkrai. Breloom, Amoonguss and some Clorophyll users had the chance to sleep a counter.
It's not overcentralization if you give a poke sleep talk; it's only common sense, as there are so many threatening sleep inducers nowadays. In the marches I had, I found hard pulling out even a simple NP.
The only good set in this meta is the scarf. Trick a scarf on your counter, go away and come in after to sleep something. Pair it up with ST Chandelure and you have just killed breloom.

DaRkRaii · Aug 16th, 2012, 2:13:12 PM

*Stares at name* YES!!! Dream World, as if it wasn't already my favourite metagame, just got a whole lot better <3

Matthew · Aug 16th, 2012, 4:51:39 PM

About time you implemented my idea!

DaRkRaii · Aug 17th, 2012, 7:29:37 PM

No bias implied, I seriously haven't had troubles with Darkrai. I tested right away, and thought the whole "Heracross" checking thing to be dumb. Whenever somebody sees Heracross and they have a Darkraii it seems they are very hesitant to let out Darkrai, and then when they do, come in and resist the STAB+Focus Blast and then retaliate with a CC. Scarfed obviously and from there Heracross wreaks havoc on everything and Darkraii ceases to be a threat.

I find that since we were so used to Breloom sleeping everything (With a presumably more accurate move) and Breloom having better STAB (For both Metagames fighting is still an amazing STAB) and having access to powerful priority that allow it to surface as a revenge killer, Darkrai putting things to sleep is nothing new. Also with the prevalence of Scarf Terrakion (People finally catching on to how good it is) Darkraii should be weary of setting up because that +1 in attack on top of the Scarfs boost to speed spell a lot of damage.

Overall, I will keep testing to see if Darkrai becomes an immediate problem, but prelimenary testing suggests it is plausible in the current DW metagame (Standard is up for debate, but we still face Base 121 speed Tornadus with stronger moves)

Aug 10th, 2012, 3:27:03 PM	#1
Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo-woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Moderator Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,253 GONER	Darkrai is Getting Ladder-Tested It is now official: Darkrai has received enough votes to be tested on the ladder. I'll be making a thread with the paragraph votes once the last few are in. I'll ask for Darkrai to be added to the ladder later today. I encourage you all to give the new ladder a shot and see how you like it. There'll be a feedback thread later, and at some point the council will vote to either officially unban Darkrai or reban it. We'll see how it goes. Have fun! __________________

Aug 10th, 2012, 3:45:12 PM	#3
Sazandoringlps Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 50 Toronto,Ontario,Canada	this is great do you think that if its checked and counterd by enough things it would stay DW OU and possibly go down to Wifi OU? __________________ I Need Some Battles FC:2537 7743 8991 Youtube:http://www.youtube.com/user/Sazandoring

Aug 10th, 2012, 7:22:01 PM	#6
~~superbadd~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 357	^ I'm kind'v curious, what exactly is that list and what's on it? Does it involve blaziken and revamping the SS+Drizzle clause? Last edited by superbadd; Aug 10th, 2012 at 7:55:12 PM.

Aug 10th, 2012, 9:18:48 PM	#8
Audiosurfer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 330	Sweet :) This'll be fun. Was this the revamp thing you hinted at or is there more to come? __________________ Intro to things I like/use: Last.fm (new)\| Pojo \| Dueling Network \| PS \| Downton Abbey \| Once Upon a Time \| Cartoons \| Movies \| Harry Potter \| Finance \| #doubles \| #neverused PM/VM me for an NU rate! Also free Emboar. #banRU

Aug 12th, 2012, 12:41:14 AM	#11
TheStarRapper Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 179 Everybody gets one.	Darkrai is coming? Everyone grab a Heracross with sleep talk, no time to explain! I would default to saying he would wreak havoc, but with Technilooms Mach punch and genesect's stab moves, I'm not sure. One thing for certain: checkable or not, he'll be a real threat. __________________ Now an EMT for Los Angeles county. PM me for house calls. (Totally legit I swear.) PM me for an OU team rate!

Aug 10th, 2012, 3:28:21 PM	#2
~~superbadd~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 357	Omg, this exciting! Thank you. Gives me a reason to play DW now.

Aug 14th, 2012, 10:39:14 AM	#14
Sewa Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 132	Should I remember that Dark Void has the same accuracy of the worst attack in the game? Also, there are plenty of scarfers and priority abusers in DW meta. Scizor, Mamo, Breloom, etc.. Yeah, you need to find someone that has to take the sleep or the tricked scarf/specs, but you needed it yet before the unban of Darkrai. Breloom, Amoonguss and some Clorophyll users had the chance to sleep a counter. It's not overcentralization if you give a poke sleep talk; it's only common sense, as there are so many threatening sleep inducers nowadays. In the marches I had, I found hard pulling out even a simple NP. The only good set in this meta is the scarf. Trick a scarf on your counter, go away and come in after to sleep something. Pair it up with ST Chandelure and you have just killed breloom.

Aug 16th, 2012, 2:13:12 PM	#15
DaRkRaii Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 88	Stares at name YES!!! Dream World, as if it wasn't already my favourite metagame, just got a whole lot better <3

Aug 16th, 2012, 4:51:39 PM	#16
Matthew I love weather; Sun for days Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,573 Where the Sun finally sets	About time you implemented my idea! __________________ ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ What bitgamer tehconnection popcorn last.fm

Aug 17th, 2012, 7:29:37 PM	#17
DaRkRaii Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 88	No bias implied, I seriously haven't had troubles with Darkrai. I tested right away, and thought the whole "Heracross" checking thing to be dumb. Whenever somebody sees Heracross and they have a Darkraii it seems they are very hesitant to let out Darkrai, and then when they do, come in and resist the STAB+Focus Blast and then retaliate with a CC. Scarfed obviously and from there Heracross wreaks havoc on everything and Darkraii ceases to be a threat. I find that since we were so used to Breloom sleeping everything (With a presumably more accurate move) and Breloom having better STAB (For both Metagames fighting is still an amazing STAB) and having access to powerful priority that allow it to surface as a revenge killer, Darkrai putting things to sleep is nothing new. Also with the prevalence of Scarf Terrakion (People finally catching on to how good it is) Darkraii should be weary of setting up because that +1 in attack on top of the Scarfs boost to speed spell a lot of damage. Overall, I will keep testing to see if Darkrai becomes an immediate problem, but prelimenary testing suggests it is plausible in the current DW metagame (Standard is up for debate, but we still face Base 121 speed Tornadus with stronger moves)