LC Teambuilding

[Superpowerdude]

Life Orb Mienfoo hasn't been rejected lol it is quite a good mon Hawksters Lc team is a testament to how good it is. Evolite set is still awesome but it isn't the only Viable Mienfoo set I am going to add in that Mienfoo set

[Gengan]

I just went to see that and noticed you added the Drilbur set under my name. I shouldn't be given credit for that one as the one I gave had Mold Breaker. Some one else Ray Jay suggested that.

[Hawkstar]

Originally Posted by Fat Gengan

According to the Rejected Set link in the Analysis Index, Feb 4th.

Then what is the fourth set?

LO Mienfoo is easily one of the most powerful sets in the metagame at the moment, and is my personal favorite Mienfoo set. Hi Jump Kick has such amazing wallbreaking power, especially with walls like Ferroseed, Porygon, and Lileep that are weak to Fighting, but can squeak out a 2HKO from an Eviolite Drain Punch. It has almost twice the power of said Drain Punch, which cuts down Mienfoo's list of checks considerably. Just try and switch anything into a Hi Jump Kick that isn't a Ghost-type or Slowpoke, and watch it get vaporized. Even then, I am not too comfortable switching anything except Misdreavus into Mienfoo, simply because Mienfoo outspeeds every other Ghost-type and can U-turn out or just pick off weakened Ghosts with Stone Edge. There's also that Fake Out for stuff below 30%, so even Scarfers have to watch out. Like superpowerdude said, anything faster pretty much has free reign, but unless that Pokemon is Misdreavus, it is not getting in for free at all.

[Gengan]

Herp, I never even knew it had more than 2 set options. Good lurking Gengan.

LO Mienfoo does sound good; now that I've seen it I pretty much wanna switch my Mienfoo to this bad bitch.

[PDC]

It wasn't really "rejected" per say, it was just set to be mentioned in OO instead of an actual set on it's own.

EDIT : oops lol

[Gengan]

K, so re-editing this into my post was a bad idea. Since we can all agree LO Mienfoo is now viable, let's move to something new: Dual-Defensive Lileep.

Lileep

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If someone mentions the other Stockpile set over this one I will kill myself. That set doesn't have near enough viability as this one.



Lileep @ Eviolite
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 88 SDef / 184 SAtk / 236 Def
Bold Nature
- Stockpile
- Giga Drain
- AncientPower
- Recover

Role: Dual-Defensive Wall
What it does: Lemme just state for the record that Lileep has phenomenal defenses, complimented by it's wonderful typing. This makes it good as either a physically-defensive or specially-defensive wall. This set tries to make the best of both worlds (lol Miley Cyrus). First off, one questions why the use of 236 Def EVs instead of 236 SDef EVs. This set blows the most common weakness Lileep has (Fighting) to shame. Stockpile is the fun part of this set. Lileep's defenses with the current EVs and Eviolite are are 27 Def stat and 24 SDef stat. One Stockpile boost? It's now 40 Def stat and 36 SDef stat. Have fun taking this bissh down. Recover is necessary to keep Lileep alive, even with overpowered defenses. Giga Drain is wonderful, as it has STAB and it heals, which is fabulous. AncientPower, despite the low PP turn-off, is another good STAB. In addition to this, if Lileep gets the all-stat boost, holy shit and save the plunger; SAtk tops 21, beating even Abra. Def/SDef skyrocket to 54/48 after a Stockpile boost. It's like hell in rock. I mean, seriously. Lileep is horrifying when one sees this kind of potential.
Good Teammates: Lileep does well on it's own, but a team is 6 Pokes, not one. Ferroseed, Bronzor, Magnemite, and other steel types (bar Aron) are a problem, resisting both STABs. Therefore, anything with access to Fire-type moves are good (Houndour is the best bet). Other Lileep are a small problem too, so Scraggy, Mienfoo, or Timburr could be helpful here.
What Counters It: Lileep's lackluster speed is it's downfall. The best way to take it down is to hit it with a super-effective move before it sets up, or use priority. Mienfoo is bad if it gets any strong hits before the boost, and U-Turn tends to leave a decent-sized dent in Lileep's health. Croagunk can Vacuum Wave this to hell-and-back because of the weaker SDef stat, but once again, the boost makes it hard. Finally, Magnemite has a good chance against it, since both STABs are resisted and it can hit with Flash Cannon.

Any Additional Info: God, if it only had Baton Pass. Giving these monstrous defense boosts to a sweeper is gg right there. Sadly, it doesn't, so there's nothing much else that can be used in place of this set.

Proof of Stats (Read ^ First)

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Unboosted:


Stockpile-Only Boost (+1)


AncientPower-Only Boost*


Stockpile (+1) & AncientPower Boost


*: The AP Boost on PS is 1.5, so that may not be the exact stat; however, it's very close.

[iss]

Protect definitely should not be slashed over Recover. Recover is absolutely necessary; otherwise you'll die at +0/+1 every time against an opponent who knows what you're doing.

[Gengan]

Originally Posted by Fat iss

Protect definitely should not be slashed over Recover. Recover is absolutely necessary; otherwise you'll die at +0/+1 every time against an opponent who knows what you're doing.

Noted, and edited.

SPEAKING OF EDIT: The OP needs some major cleaning up. I don't know what the abuse of line-space under the hide-tags is for (notably under Defensive), but it needs to be fixed. As a person with OCD, I'm frustrated with how unclean it looks.

[Ray Jay]

What not to use (offensive)

Meowth @ Life Orb
Jolly | Technician
IVs: 0 HP
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
-Fake Out
-U-turn
-Bite
-Return

Team preview happened sorry Meowth

In all seriousness, this set doesn't do enough damage to the current meta and is a poor Fake Out abuser when compared to Mienfoo and Croagunk. It also struggles to stay alive if it has to take a hit or even if it doesn't due to the huge residual damage it has to take throughout the match from Life Orb and Stealth Rock.

[Gengan]

I guess we do need to add some WNTU stuff so people don't go off making "creative" movesets (meaning custom sets that suck).

What Not to Use (Defensive)


Abra @ Eviolite
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 88 SAtk / 236 SDef / 184 Def
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic

I'm not kidding when I say I really saw some one attempting to use this set against me. Abra is so beyond frail that if you seriously waste a slot on a set-up moves, you're screwed. This Abra can't do shit compared to the actual offensive Abra set. It dies immediately to Shadow Ball from Missy, U-Turn from Mienfoo, and just so many other things that it's just pointless even attempting to use this set.

[SpecsX]

Originally Posted by Fat Gengan

I guess we do need to add some WNTU stuff so people don't go off making "creative" movesets (meaning custom sets that suck).

What Not to Use (Defensive)


Abra @ Eviolite
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 88 SAtk / 236 SDef / 184 Def
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic

I'm not kidding when I say I really saw some one attempting to use this set against me. Abra is so beyond frail that if you seriously waste a slot on a set-up moves, you're screwed. This Abra can't do shit compared to the actual offensive Abra set. It dies immediately to Shadow Ball from Missy, U-Turn from Mienfoo, and just so many other things that it's just pointless even attempting to use this set.

HAHAHA THAT'S pretty... wait, someone actually used this? I have seen abra w/out magic guard though. The ladder on Showdown is just awful.

[Gengan]

Originally Posted by Fat SpecsX

HAHAHA THAT'S pretty... wait, someone actually used this? I have seen abra w/out magic guard though. The ladder on Showdown is just awful.

Yes, some one actually used this. It even got the CM boost and I still murdered it.

[SpecsX]

Ok so... How about this?


Clamperl@Deepseatooth
Rattled
Timid
EVs:76 HP/248 SpA/180 Spe
-Shell Smash
-Ice Beam
-HP Electric/Surf
-Protect
Role: Special Sweeper
This Clamperl varies from the set on-site in that it lacks Surf, but BoltBeam is really all you need(Surf can be used, however, for more power over HP electric. Only Chinchou and Magnemite resist this combo, and they are both 2HKOd at their bulkiest. Protect stops Fake Out and Sucker Punch (to an extent).
Teammates: Staryu can spin away hazards, but has poor defensive synergy. Ferroseed can set up hazards, and resists both of Clamperl's weaknesses. Wynaut can use encore/tickle to allow a free setup.
Checks and Counters: Strong attacks from pokemon such as Magnemite, Murkrow, Abra, and Scraggy will hurt it. Entry hazards limit the possible times it can switch in and take hits to set up. Once it has set up, though, it reaches 26 speed, so only a few pokemon such as Choice Scarf Gastly can outspeed it. And if it gets a Rattled boost... good luck. Overall, though, offensive pressure will prevent switches, and priority hits Clamperl hard.

So what do you guys think? If it's not different or good enough, just put it in "not to use".


@Gengan: I HAVE tested this set, and it suits my needs.

[iss]

No... You're not going to kill anything with Ice Beam.

[SpecsX]

Umm... I have killed a lot with Ice Beam as after SS and Deepseatooth, it's SpA is like 64(?). Please clarify what makes this set unusable w/ out Surf. I have actually 2HKOd Chinchou(though 'twas on the ladder, so take tha with a grain of salt)

[Superpowerdude]

Thankyou Gengan and Ray Jay for posting a set to not use! Its good to start getting more of these. Also as a generall rule people please don't post custom sets while it is encouraged to get a little bit creative sets like Energy Ball Abra Mold Breaker Drilbur etc. While they may work good on your team tailor made to fit these sets newer players using these sets will often be worse off just try to keep that in mind i will edit this op half an hour or so also i noticed the thread is a little messy so i will fix that keep contributing

[iss]

Originally Posted by Fat SpecsX

Umm... I have killed a lot with Ice Beam as after SS and Deepseatooth, it's SpA is like 64(?). Please clarify what makes this set unusable w/ out Surf. I have actually 2HKOd Chinchou(though 'twas on the ladder, so take tha with a grain of salt)

What is the point of using Hidden Power Electric over Surf? Not a single thing will be hit by HP Electric that Surf doesn't already KO (except Water Absorb Mantyke, but Ice Beam OHKOes that). Surf allows you to take down things like Porygon, Magnemite, and Bronzor while still killing everything. If you can name anything that you can KO with Ice Beam/HP Electric that you can't with Surf/Ice Beam, I'll be surprised.

In addition, Substitute is far superior to Protect, as Clamperl has surprisingly good Defense and can actually take a Fake Out. The Fake Out user is obviously going to switch after using Fake Out, so Substitute not only guards you from future Fake Outs but also protects you from other priority.

[Gengan]

Originally Posted by Fat SpecsX

Clamperl@Deepseatooth
Rattled
Timid
EVs:Should be the same as the analysis
-Shell Smash
-Ice Beam
-HP Electric
-Protect

Just, no. Why would you give up a STAB? They're a Pokemon's best friends! Ferroseed can switch into either move and KO with Bullet Seed. I also highly doubt you beat Chinchou using Ice Beam. If you did, I want logs, I want damage calcs, because I straight-up refuse to believe it's possible.

Sorry if that seems rude, but it's the truth. If you want a SS Clamperl set, this is the one you should be using:

Shell Smash Clamperl

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Clamperl @ DeepSeaTooth
Ability: Rattled
EVs: 76 HP / 248 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Ice Beam / Substitute
- Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fire

I feel like a link to the Creative LC Movesets topic should be put in OP so people don't post their custom movesets here unless it's been tested and proven to be viable. This topic is made as a "starting kit" for people who want to build teams, so we want to most battle-worthy Pokemon here.

Meanwhile, let's add the Ice Beam/HP Elec Clamperl set to "What Not to Use (Offensive)" and be done talking about it, because the viability is 0%.

[Superpowerdude]

True while bolt beam is good Surf will probally Ko whatever you are hitting super effectivly with Hp electric anyway I am not adding that Clamperl set until you have changed its set. Gengan's set looks great and i understand you are on your phone so you may want to do this later but please follow the format in the op.

Additionally i have decided that the "sets not to use" only require that you write why they are bad you don't need to put in team mates role etc. You can do additional info if you want. I am sorry i didn'd put then in the op since the start i am going to add it

Also Ray Jay and Gengan your sets are accepted in "Stuff not to Use"

[SpecsX]

Thanks iss, I'll be running calcs tomorrow against ferroseed.

Gengan, it is a guaranteed 2HKO on Bulky sweeper Chinchou. 50%-62%. I'll try to get calcs on other variants soon.
@SPdude:
Ok, I'll get them up tomorrow afternoon, if not before.

[Gengan]

Alright. I still would love to have my cleansing hands spruce up OP's Enter-key issues, but I'll let it slide considering that you probably have a reason for that... greatly... unneeded... space... *eye twitch*

Since Sand is prevalent in LC currently (followed only by Hail b/c Snover), Hippopotas deserves a utility mention as the Sandstorm-setting demon it is.

Lead Hippopotas

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Hippopotas @ Eviolite
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 132 HP / 20 Atk / 212 Def / 100 SpD / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Crunch / Protect / Roar
- Slack Off

Role: Lead
What it does: Hippopotas' main selling point is Sand Storm, currently being one of the only two ways to get permanent weather in LC. If you have a Sand Team and you're not using Hippo to set the weather, stay off the LC ladder, because that's a dumb idea. Hippo's defenses are 25 / 27 / 18 coupled with the EV spread and Eviolite, which means it won't be going anyway too soon. Without Sandstorm taking up a moveslot, Hippo brings out his full potential. Stealth Rock, in addition to sand, racks up damage on the other team noticeably and quickly. Slack Off increases longevity, which saves any Sand-based sweepers from getting blasted right off the bat, as Hippo can deal damage to the opposing team before being picked off, making it easier for sweepers to get their kicks in. EQ is a fabulous STAB. Crunch can be used for the likes of Abra and Slowpoke, while Protect stops Fake-Out leads and HJK Mienfoo cold. Roar is good for scouting and racking up SR damage, but Hippo is kind of slow and can't really pull it off.
Good Teammates: Setting up sand opens a window for sweepers and stalls alike. Drilbur is the most common offensive sand sweeper, and loves Hippo like a brother for the things it does to help. Lileep gets off greatly from sand, and also helps because all Sand-teams having a gaping water weakness, which Lileep covers with Storm Drain. Sandshrew, although outclassed by Drilbur, can also be used for late-game sweeping since its DW ability was released. Pretty much anything with Sand Veil, Sand Rush, or a Rock/Ground/Steel typing is good for Hippo.
What Counters It: Hippo's weak SDef is the only thing that sets it off. Anything with a good SAtk stat and a specially-offensive move can take a good chunk out of Hippo's health. A Hi Jump Kick from Mienfoo does decent damage. Abra is a very good counter because Magic Guard blocks Sandstorm damage, Entry Hazards, and it can fire off a Psychic to KO.

Any Additional Info: If entry hazards aren't your thing or another mon has it covered, you can opt for Toxic > SR, which, combined with Slack Off, makes Hippo an effective stall as well.

I think I'll step back and let some others post sets. I'm on fire.

[Superpowerdude]

@SpecsX thank you

@Gengan yeah the format gets a bit wacky sometime when i add in new things i will add in your Hippopotas

[iss]

Don't use Rock Slide on Hippopotas. Crunch, Protect, Toxic, and Roar are all better options than a weak Rock Slide.

[Gengan]

Alright. I'll edit that and leave the OP edit to Superpowerdude.

[SpecsX]

Ok, I edited my set Superpowerdude.
Delete this post or something because it's cluttering the thread