|Aug 18th, 2012, 6:42:15 PM||#1|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Rush Mode OU (Offensive sand team)
Hello everyone, this is my first BW2 RMT. After playing some games with a weatherless team, I realized how many people abuse rain in the metagame. I thought “It surely is a great weather, but not the only one”. I never played with a weather team in the 5th generation, as it was the prominent playstyle and I don’t really like prominent playstyles :). So I came to the conclusion that playing with sand could be interesting, and this team was born. This is far from perfect, but I have fun playing with it. I really want to thank Jirachi for his rating, as he suggested me Celebi and some set variation and helped me a lot improving the team. Enjoy!
TEAM AT A GLANCE
Changes are in red.
BlackHole (Hippowdon) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
The specially defensive Hippowdon is an invaluable asset for this team. It is a great weather starter, a good SRer, a really bulky Pokémon with access to reliable recovery and an important shuffler. It seriously is really bulky: at full health, it can survive a Draco Meteor from Choice Specs Max SpAtk Latios and it has a chance of surviving it even after Stealth Rock (not that I would switch into a Latios with Hippowdon; this is just to show the BULK). It isn’t as physical defensive as other sets, but it’s really impressive how well it manages to survive even some super-effective special hits.
Pixle (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 40 Spd / 216 HP
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Recommended to me by Jirachi.
This thing is so strong that I’m actually surprised how well it works in this team. It lets me beat some Pokes that could give me problems, like Specs Politoed, Gyarados, Terrakion and some Steels. It has two reliable recovery moves and a great ability in Natural Cure, which gives me a good status absorber and a bulky pivot, all in one damn pixie! Celebi is also really useful to preserve my weather advantage, because Rain can kill me if he isn’t around. As Celebi is designed to be a bulky attacker, his set relies on coverage: Giga Drain has the advantage to let me regain health, Psychic for powerful STAB, HP Fire to counter Steels and Recover to have a more consistent way to regain health.
ImmaPunchin' (Landorus) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 28 SAtk / 228 Atk
- Stone Edge
- Hidden Power [Ice]
THE lure. I am a great fan of Expert Belt sets, and Landorus makes great use of it. It fits really well in this team: it can score those KO that make easier a sweep and even exploit the holes made by the other members to attempt a sweep. It works wonderfully in tandem with Magnezone and Scizor, as the two punch the necessary holes to begin a sweep with Landorus and can come in easily thanks to U-turn. Eases prediction, surprises the opponent and is simple to use in end-game, do I need to say something else?
Blade III (Scizor) @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 SDef
- Bullet Punch
There’s no word to describe how well Scizor gets his job done: it strikes hard and gets back, as simple as that. Not much to state here, Scizor is a well-known CB user for obvious reasons. Bullet Punch is my only form of priority in the team and it helps out cleaning end-game, U-turn gives switch advantage, Superpower is for a predicted Steel switch-in and Pursuit is great to trap some Pokes that otherwise could be a problem for this team. U-turn also forms a Volt-Turn combination with Magnezone. This is far from disappointing: I can lure Steel pokes with Scizor, then proceed U-turning out with it, trap with Magnezone and kill those who haven’t Volt Switch, U-Turn or Shed Shell. Moreover, it kills with ease Celebi and Shaymin, which augments Hippowdon’s defensive capabilities exponentially.
U4TW (Magnezone) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 148 HP / 252 SAtk / 108 Spd
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
The Steel killer. Modest Specs Magnezone packs an impressive punch on the special side and synergizes well with the other members, as Steel types are the main issue to eliminate and Magnezone is more than happy to solve this issue. Mind-gaming wise, this thing scares the opponent to the point where it doesn’t even switch directly in a Steel type not named Heatran. When it does, I usually get a kill. As said earlier, it forms a great offensive core with Scizor, and Volt Switch keeps momentum for my team.
MahJewelz (Starmie) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
Choice Scarf Starmie is something no one expects, but underestimating it spells doom to anyone. It is SO FAST! It can revenge kill pretty much anything with its gargantuan 541 Spd (OMG). It is one of the most versatile Scarf user, and it has three main roles:
1)Revenge kill: even if it hasn’t the Specs power, it packs a respectable punch in the form of STAB Hydro Pump and Ice Beam, while retaining her solid Speed. It is used mainly to revenge weakened Pokémon or fast but frail sweepers;
2)Trick: the reason why Scarfers are so much hated. Locking a certain Pokémon in an inconvenient move forces a not-so-desirable switch and cripples unprepared sets for the rest of the match. If it wasn’t enough, Starmie retains her great speed even after losing the Scarf, sitting at 361.
3)Rapid Spin: it may seem odd to have Rapid Spin on a Scarfer, but take this into account: after you Trick the Scarf to cripple walls, you are free to switch moves. Now, if you take into account that Entry hazard stacking teams are SLOW and that you can cripple a wall with Trick, Starmie can switch to a defensive role and spin hazards away with little problem.
ABOUT THE ENTRY HAZARDS
With the addition of Rapid Spin in Starmie’s set, I can manage to counter entry hazard stacking teams a lot better than the previous version of the team. I usually try to eliminate the hazard layers before they do their job. If this isn’t possible, I try to maintain Starmie alive and then use Rapid Spin. Stealth Rock isn’t that problematic, as none of my pokes is weak against Rock, but the fact that one can set up them in one turn surely is annoying. Toxic Spikes cripple Hippowdon, but the other members deal with them pretty nicely, being immune to Poison (Scizor and Magnezone), levitating (Landorus) or even spinning them away and get rid of Poison with Natural Cure (Celebi and Starmie). The most problematic entry hazards are Spikes, but it takes a while before the opponent can set them up. In addition, spikes layers are usually weak to TrickScarf from Starmie, who is the same Pokémon that uses Rapid Spin (how convenient!).
HOW I PLAY THE TEAM
The strategy, ordered by priority, is this:
1)Place SR; 2)Incapacitate or eliminate those Pokémon that could ruin my offensive momentum; 3)Try to win the weather war; 4)Eventually proceed by sweeping with one of my four offensive colossuses. Trapping specific Pokémon to ease the sweep is the main way to accomplish the 2nd point, but I can also rely on a well-placed Tricked Scarf by Starmie. It is obviously vital to preserve Hippowdon’s health as much as possible, as with the sand I can score some crucial KOs with Landorus and have a greater time versus those Pokes that rely on Leftovers only to gain health.
All of my Pokémon bar Hippowdon and Magnezone are greatly capable of attempting a sweep. Starmie can ruin fast offensive teams; Scizor, although mainly used to ease their fellows’ sweep, can afford to muscle through bulkier Pokémon; Celebi has great coverage and can Recover if something goes wrong; Landorus is a beast.
THE DEFENSIVE CORE
Hippowdon and Celebi are used to take those hits that the other members aren’t supposed to afford. Both of them can recover really well, but they have some other tricks under their sleeves.
Hippowdon is my shuffler and prevents sweeps from the likes of Volcarona and stat-uppers in general. Plus, most people expect him not to be the great special wall it really is and play recklessly assuming they are going to beat him with relative ease. I often exploit this fact to wreck most mixed wallbreaker. Mixed Infernape, for example, fails to 3HKO him with Grass Knot most of the time (!), while Hippowdon OHKOs him with EQ.
As for Celebi, it has more offensive presence than Hippowdon, but can take a hit or two and recover the damage easily, thus making him a great mixed defensive pivot. It takes anything it resists with ease and forces a lot of switches, making it a valuable team member. Plus, if the opponent’s special walls and faster Pokémon are down, there’s nearly nothing that can stop a pixie sweep, bar Sucker Punch users. This makes Celebi an alternative answer to stall-oriented teams.
BlackHole (Hippowdon) @ Leftovers Trait: Sand Stream EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Careful Nature - Stealth Rock - Slack Off - Whirlwind - Earthquake Blade III (Scizor) @ Choice Band Trait: Technician EVs: 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 SDef Adamant Nature - Bullet Punch - U-turn - Pursuit - Superpower Pixle (Celebi) @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 SAtk / 40 Spd / 216 HP Modest Nature - Giga Drain - Hidden Power [Fire] - Psychic - Recover ImmaPunchin' (Landorus) @ Expert Belt Trait: Sand Force EVs: 252 Spd / 28 SAtk / 228 Atk Naive Nature - Earthquake - Stone Edge - U-turn - Hidden Power [Ice] U4TW (Magnezone) @ Choice Specs Trait: Magnet Pull EVs: 148 HP / 252 SAtk / 108 Spd Modest Nature - Volt Switch - Flash Cannon - Thunder - Hidden Power [Fire] MahJewelz (Starmie) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef Timid Nature - Rapid Spin - Ice Beam - Hydro Pump - Trick
REMOVED TEAM MEMBER
If you have read all this, then congrats! I hope you liked the team. Feel free to try and rate it, I’ll be more than happy to receive your comments and constructive criticisms. See you!
Last edited by Liontank; Aug 19th, 2012 at 7:08:22 AM.
|Aug 18th, 2012, 8:45:39 PM||#2|
Join Date: Sep 2010
This is a cool team however I don't think it's really well equiped to win the weather war against Politoed. Hippowdon gets murdured by Choice Specs or even Choice Scarf Politoed who can really do a number to anything on this team with Hydro Pump. Even Tangrowth will be 2HKOed by it, and it really won't take an Ice Beam very well either. That means that Politoed will have quite an easy team just wrecking stuff on your team, and nothing can take it on very well, so you'll have an hard time just winning the weather war against it. Then, if you do win the weather war, your team will be severly weakened and a random threat on the opponent's team might end up sweeping what's left on your team, because quite often good teams carry stuff that don't depends on their respective weather to work well. While I'm a really big fan of Tangrowth, having used it a lot when Excadrill was OU, I think that Celebi could be a much greater fit for that team. Celebi will take a part of the role that Tangrowth left as a bulkier Grass type letting you take on Fighting types, thanks to its Psychic typing, while also having much better Special bulk (and Speed) than Tangrowth allowing it to take on powerful Water types such as Politoed as well. It will really help you winning the weather war as that way you can force Politoed to switch out more often causing it to take more entry hazard damage, while also ensuring that Rain can be stopped. Celebi also checks stuff like Breloom a bit better thanks to Natural Cure which lets it "evade" Spore a bit, which is always nice.
You say that entry hazards are a big problem to this team but honestly, you already carry the solution to it, except that you don't use it. Starmie is effectively the best Rapid Spinner in OU, and while it might sound weird to carry Rapid Spin on a Choice Scarf set, it's actually very good since you also have Trick. After tricking the Scarf to the opponent when you don't need it anymore, Starmie can take a more defensive role on your team by Spinning the hazards away, which is nice, allowing you to do better against Spikes stacking teams, which are always a nuisance, and full Stall teams who like to spam entry hazards. Dropping Thunderbolt for it seems to be the better choice since you can handle Gyarados with Celebi/Tangrowth and it's not very useful for the rest. It's a weird solution but it's the best without changing much on your team.
Having used Choice Specs Magnezone a lot myself lately I think that Thunder could be a better choice for your team especially if you're having issues against Rain. Thunder has a nice Paralysis chance which is amazing as it can punish faster switch ins such as Latios while also having greater base power. When not trying to win a weather war, Thunderbolt is better though as it gives you a reliable option against most teams but, you still have Volt Switch outside of Rain which has decent base power and quite honestly I have swept with Magnezone maybe once in many games, so Volt Switching around isn't that bad of an idea.
Otherwise that's a pretty cool team, good job on that. Here's the set you should use:
|Aug 19th, 2012, 5:47:15 AM||#3|
Join Date: Sep 2011
First of all, thank you very much for the rating! It seriously helped me a lot in terms of what could be improved in this team. I didn't think at all about Celebi, but after testing it the pixie convinced me to make him a staple team member, it is just so useful! Also, Thunder instead of Thunderbolt in Magnezone's set helps a lot versus Rain. The more questionable replacement could be Rapid Spin over Thunderbolt in Starmie's set, but when one thinks about it it's far from an odd replacement. All in all, I do have a Specs Magnezone, so Electric moves are pretty much covered, and spinning hazards is always good.
Anyone else? :)
|Aug 20th, 2012, 11:48:29 AM||#4|
Cause you keep me coming back for more
Join Date: Jul 2012
And I feel a little better than I did before
You're team looks pretty good- though you have a pretty big weakness to fire types such as U-Turn Infernape or Darmanitan because your only fire resist, Starmie, lacks recovery and is very frail. To help with this, I suggest you switch your Starmie set to a bulky spread, so you can tank fire type hits better.
Starmie @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Starmie can take fire type hits for you now- and return with a STAB boosted Scald. It also has Recover, which allows it to tank even more hits, and spin even more times. Psyshock hits Terrakion, which is also slightly problematic, but you can use Ice beam to hit Dragons and Gliscor.
That's all for now, good luck!
|Aug 20th, 2012, 4:11:59 PM||#5|
Join Date: Dec 2010
I'm also noticing the weakness to Fire-Types here. Stuff like Choice Scarf Victini can come in and basically spam V-Creates and eventually, Starmie has to fall. This is a larger issue when facing sun teams, especially if they happen to win the weather war. Stuff like Sun boosted Fire Blast from Heatran will hurt every single one of your Pokemon. A bulkier Starmie spread could definitely help with this, but I might also recommend using Rotom-W over Magnezone.
I know Magnezone is your Steel Trapper and plays mind games, but your team isn't exactly super weak to Steel Types. Only Ferrothorn might be a problem, and the fact that Starmie and Celebi both cripple it is decent check enough. (Also, half your team uses u-turn/volt switch, allowing you to scout out the Ferrothorn). If you're super worried about it, you could also run HP Fire on Rotom-W. It also serves as another fire resistance, a better check against rain, and a Volt-Switcher to help you maintain momentum. Personally, I'm a fan of the Scarf set, but I've also seen Specs used on it pretty well.
Finally, on your Celebi, I might go for Leaf Storm>Giga Drain. Celebi probably isn't staying around a lot, and Leaf Storm is a major power upgrade. It is true that it doesn't scream survivability, but since you carry recover already, I don't think the loss of regained health should be a huge issue.
Hope I helped!
My BW OU Sun RMT: The Weather's Nice and Warm. Please give suggestions if you have the time!
PM me for an OU rate!
|Aug 20th, 2012, 5:21:39 PM||#6|
Join Date: May 2010
Hey, nice team man. However, I have some suggestions for you. First off, like the others said, you are pretty weak to fire. For this reason I suggest changing your Magnezone into a Specially Defensive Heatran.
Heatran's ability, Flash Fire, makes it immune to fire-type attacks and gives it a 50% power boost to Fire-type attacks if it by one. The great thing about Heatran is not only does he patch up your Fire-type weakness, he can still destroy opposing steel-types, making it a great member for your team. Another great feature of adding Heatran to your team is it gives you a nice counter to Sun teams, which could be troublesome. Heatran also has great synergy with Celebi, forming the famous CeleTran core pioneered back in Generation 4. It also pairs well with Starmie and the three of them make a fantastic FWG core. A Special Defensive Heatran helps you take hits on the special side of the spectrum. Lava Plume is used for the 30% chance of burn which can come in helpful when a physical attacker is switching in on Heatran. Protect is for the usual scouting and also provides you with Leftovers recovery. Roar is for anyone who tries and sets up on Heatran but is also very useful for racking up damage from Stealth Rock. Toxic gives a status move, which your team lacks, and helps cripple opposing sweepers. Now, I suggest taking out the 252 Special Defense EVs on Hippowdon and put them into Defense. I have a couple of reasons for this suggestion. For off, putting them into defense helps you take physical attacking Dragons's attacks easier such as Salamence or Dragonite. Secondly, Heatran does the role of a special wall better than Hippowdon due to it's higher Special Defense. If you thought 252 Special Defense Hippowdon not being OHKO'ed by Choice Specs Latios's Draco Meteor was cool, you will like that Heatran only takes 30.64 - 36.36% from it. That's all I have man, hope I helped and good luck with the team.
Last edited by Shining Latios; Aug 20th, 2012 at 6:03:02 PM.
|Aug 20th, 2012, 7:49:09 PM||#7|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Thank you for your participation to the thread! However, I think you are missing the point of the team. It is an “offensive” one and you should take this into account before listing on-paper counters.
Before answering to everyone, I want to state this: although Fire and Sun teams are threatening, they can be worked out really well with this team. Landorus can counter pretty much any Ninetales set, basically letting me win the weather war; Hippowdon is a great mixed wall and nullifies Drought, while it can KO things back with EQ or Roar them out. Starmie is fast as hell and can revenge pretty much anything with a little prediction. I can even decide to sack a not-so-useful member of the party to take a switch advantage, Magnezone being the premier candidate for this role.
@Electrolyte: one of the points to have Starmie in this team is to be my revenge killer, and although I like bulky sets, this just doesn’t seem fitting onto the team, I’m sorry. If I don’t run the best possible speed on this mon, nothing on my team can stop a well prepared sweep by a random Scarfer, and I don’t want to give my opponent this chance. By the way, Terrakion isn’t that much of a problem for the team, as he doesn’t take at all a BP from Scizor, Hippowdon can take on most sets phazing the setup ones while being able to get some respectable damage with EQ, and I can also use Celebi and Starmie herself if my Sandstorm isn’t already up, although I must pay attention to X-scissor.
@shofly12: well, Rotom-W seems a good fitting, thanks for the call! But one can be surprised of how well Magnezone works for the team, as it is bulky and packs a formidable punch on anything not named Chansey or Blissey. It is also a Steel type, meaning I can afford to let him in more often than one could expect thanks to his plethora of resistances, notably ˝ to Dragon and Ľ to Flying. Moreover, if I am fighting a Rain team, I can just spam Thunder with impunity. Finally, his ability makes him really, really annoying. I can give Rotom-W a shot, though, as it is not badly trapped by Dugtrio and has great STABs to exploit in rain. I’m not saying that Magnezone is overall better, but one can say that Specs Magnezone + Scarf Starmie is as efficient as Specs/Scarf Rotom-W + Scarf/Bulky Starmie: the first core has some flaws that the other doesn’t have, and vice versa. As for Celebi, it actually is capable of staying around for quite a long time with this set, as Recover is really consistent, while Giga Drain can prove to be powerful enough for his purposes, because of STAB and coming from a Max Modest Celebi, which is nothing to take lightly, especially since Celebi regains health by attacking, which is amazing in my opinion. Plus, if I need an extra punch, I can rely on Psychic. I like insta-powerful moves, but the staying power of Celebi is really surprising, therefore a -2 SpAtk isn’t helping at all. I think I’ll stick to Giga Drain.
@Shining Latios: Thanks for the Heatran set! It surely helps when it comes to fight Sun teams. But I can also say that removing Magnezone/Rotom-W and their STAB Electric moves makes me weaker to Rain teams, especially if I replace them with Heatran! On the same note as the previous one, this replacement can benefit my team in a way (I am able to counter Sun more easily) as well as crippling it in another (I am weaker to Rain teams). I’ll give it a shot, though, as Toxic seems really appealing, as well as another phazer and a better special wall.
I really appreciated your participation to the thread! Thank you very much again!