The CAP Kitchen: Non-Competitive Discussion Goes Here

[bugmaniacbob]

Greetings!

As very few of you are doubtless aware, when the CAP Project first opened its arms to flavour (and yes, the "u" is necessary), it was given a social group in which to discuss these matters, which can still be found here, but which eventually died out when most of the users who knew about it either left or forgot about it. Well, today, these wrongs are to be righted!

Yes, this is the Create-A-Pokemon Kitchen, which is designed to give those of you who don't frequent #cap or prefer a more leisurely conversational pace to discuss every aspect of CAP flavour. So what is this "flavour", I hear you cry? Well, flavour refers to every part of a Pokemon's design that, in CAP's terms, has nothing to do with the competitive side - thus, the art, the sprites, the Dex entries, and indeed parts of movepools and flavour abilities are found under the umbrella of CAP flavour. Indeed, anything that can be found in that social group is fair game here.

So what should be discussed at present? Well, apart from the things already mentioned, and of course the things that we will want to be discussing during the CAP Projects themselves, here are some topics to get started on, if of course you need them:

• CAP4 Speculation. Yes, I know that we have very little information regarding what CAP4 will eventually turn out to be, but this doesn't stop speculation. After all, for both DPP and BW, CAP1 has been a greatly overpowered attacker/supporter with a powerful offensive combination and abilities, CAP2 has been a very powerful bulky offensive Ghost-type, and CAP3 has been a defensive Fire-type with a slightly dubious typing and effectiveness, so naturally CAP4 will likely be a fast, bulky Ground-type with a heavy support emphasis. What are your ideas for the artwork for a CAP of this description? Names? Possible flavour abilities? Discuss.
• Pokemon Cries. This is unlikely to become an official project for a long time to come, but if you have a microphone, there's nothing to stop you screeching into it until either you get bored or the men in white coats trundle round with a van and a straitjacket. Either way, we'll get to hear your interpretation of what you think the CAPs' cries should be.
• General Discussion of Pre-Evos. As I'm sure you're all aware, the Pre-Evolution Project is currently underway in its own forum - do feel free to discuss any and all aspects of current and future pre-evolutions; as they say, forewarned is forearmed.

So, that's the general shape of things. The mods will be keeping an eye on things and I'm sure those seasoned CAP contributors with an eye for flavour will be ever eager to start and lead discussions - but please remember that, while this thread has far fewer rules than the rest of the forum, all Smogon's forum-wide rules still apply.

Happy Flavouring!

EDIT: You are free to talk about the philosophy of CAP art, the correct balance of humour with gravity in a Dex entry, or indeed the degree of faithfulness of a sprite to its original artwork - but do remember that the primary purpose of this thread is to discuss the CAPs and their own flavour. More to the point, it's probably more rewarding.

[SubwayJ]

We need a Psychic/Normal type next CAP (sorry Girafarig)

We will then have represented all types!

Also, NO MORE FIGHTING (unless Fighting/Ice cause that's just awesome)

[Eagle4]

Mollux's cry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwzkz9Kgv04

Sorry guys, I just had to.
Oh, and on a side note, bugmaniacbob's pokedex entry of Mollux was the best. I wish pokedex entries were more comedic and less serious.

Pokemon typing for CAPs I want to see in the near future:

Electric/Grass
Poison/Steel
Fire/Water
Dragon/Fighting
Normal/Ghost
Dark/Electric

[Birkal*]

Hey guys, just dropping in to say that while this is a noncompetitive discussion thread, please make intelligent posts. If you wanna present a cool new typing you thought of, then state why you are so fond of it. Let's try to maintain some quality here. Don't just make a laundry list of "stuff you want" please, for everyone's sake.

Also, this thread is open to pretty much everything noncompetitive. I know some users wanted to talk about CAP art philosophy, which is totally acceptable. Also, if you want to present your own creations, that's cool too. Just please uphold some sort of quality and focus with your posts. Don't let this just be a "post-dump" thread, or otherwise it will cease to exist. Thanks!

[Quanyails]

I've always thought of Mollux's cry as either like Cinccino's or Amoonguss's. Necturna's sounds like Cresselia's in my mind. I'll 'yay' if cries get put in, though I wonder how cries are synthesized?

I would like to see a non-unique typing sometime, but that's just to differentiate from the pattern so far. If it makes sense depending on the concept, than I'd still be fine on a unique typing.

Monohm is so fluffy, on a completely different tangent. :D

[uxsee]

Dragon-Fighting was always an interesting and much needed combination for me because it would be either a very cool or very stupid looking pokemon. Dragon types typically have the best looking sprites/designs and are the most powerful type statwise. Fighting types are either really cool looking or just dumb (I'm looking at you gurdurr). It would be interesting to see how it would turn out.

Poison-Steel was a type combo i was talking to someone (i dont remember who) about and we both agreed this would be boss. It would sort of be like ferrothorn with one quad weakness and one regular weakness (ground and fire). It would probably be a bulky offensive pokemon with great stats and a mediocre movepool. A signature move will probably be on this thing as well. and would be def. genderless.

Psychic is a type that i would like to see because CAP has never done a psychic type pokemon. It would look really cool when paired with poison and might resemble a witch.

[Espeon65]

I would love to see a psychic type as it is one of my favorite types and there hasn't been a CAP that is psychic. I would personally love to see a Psychic/Dragon type Pokemon. I think that would be pretty bad ass... And sorry normal, you haven't been represented yet, but you might have to wait a little.

[SpecsX]

Originally Posted by Fat uxsee

Poison-Steel......It would sort of be like ferrothorn with one quad weakness and one regular weakness (ground and fighting).

It would be weak to fire, not fighting. I'd like to see a Normal CAP, as most CAPs have great typings, but Normal has almost no positives.

[uwnim]

I would only want a normal type if it had a good gimmick like Castform, Arceus and Smeargle or if it was paired with Ghost. The only good thing about Normal is that it is immune to Ghost type moves which really isn't worth much.

[Aubade]

I think a CAP legendary-style pokemon would be very cool in terms of flavour, but maybe it'd be underwelming to have a pokemon that's legendary and not ubers. Unless we're doing an ubers CAP, haha.

Also, a Normal/Steel type. Cyborg themed.

[SubwayJ]

I agree with most of the typing. We should have Psychic or Normal (or both). A Dark Psychic mon would be very interesting if we take the psychic route. One immunity and one (4x) weakness. Its STABs wouldn't be amazing but winning Calm Mind wars (if Special) would be really easy due to Psyshock immunity. Also it would look pretty cool.

If we don't have Psychic/Dark Ghost/Normal would be awesome. Immunity to Normal, Fighting AND Ghost (two of which it'd be weak to without the other type) is just awesome. It's stabs would be fairly weak however which kinda balances it out. Also it'd be a prime stop to Gengar (and other ghosts that rely on fighting coverage. We would also have no arguments against a possibly vast movepool as most Normals movepools go on for eternity.

Just my two thoughts on Normal and Psychic

[Pwnemon]

heatran raikou entei suicune zapdos moltres articuno latios latias deoxys-d uxie mesprit azelf kyurem meloetta genesect celebi shaymin jirachi victini regice registeel regirock regigigas cresselia landorus tornadus keldeo terrakion virizion cobalion mew

you're right a non-uber legendary makes no sense?

[SpecsX]

Originally Posted by Fat uwnim

I would only want a normal type if it had a good gimmick like Arceus or if it was paired with Ghost.

Are you trying to tell me EKiller is a gimmick? Hell no it ain't. Multitype pretty much makes a mon every type as far as I'm concerned. Castform is a gimmick. Smeargle is a gimmick, but at least it works.

[uwnim]

Multitype is its gimmick. Arceus is a Normal type that can become other types by holding certain items.

[Scoopapa]

Would this be a good place to discuss the potential of Drought on CAP4? After the knock-down-drag-out fight we had over Drought last time, I could see this coming up again, at least if it were planned for in the concept or concept analysis phases. I think it would ease many people's souls if we could discuss Drought in a situation where we've all agreed it is appropriate.

I think that we missed a great opportunity with CAP3 to go for a mono-Normal type, at least judging from the concept. I'm still a little sad that mono-Normal didn't get much consideration as far as bad typing goes.

As for Art and concept stuff, I've been thinking more and more recently that I'd like to see more CAPs based on actual legendary creatures. I love seeing Pokemon like Whimsicott, which is based on the Vegetable Lamb of Tartary, but most CAPs just seem to be based on a cute animal or other very basic concept (electric krill, octopus pirate, voodoo doll, not that I don't love those). I really want to see more drawing from legend and myth when it comes to CAP design concepts because of the instant depth of story that it adds. I even think that a lot of entries for CAP3 were cool in this direction, the Basilisk and Manticore and even a bit of Hoop Snake. I want to see something based on Saci or Quetzalcoatl or Jackalope or even something based on Cthulhu or Slender Man would be awesome, typing allowing.

[CiteAndPrune]

I'm eagerly awaiting both new and innovative as well as tried and true types. There's lots of room to explore new possibilities here - with repercussions on the rest of the metagame. A Ghost/Normal Poke would break up "Fighting+Ghost unresisted coverage" with consequences reaching well into the Uber tier (Ghost/Normal walls the ExtremeKillerArceus).

I wouldn't mind seeing Drought brought in for CAP4 from the start, although like I mentioned elsewhere, a whole brand new weather condition would be much more interesting, with subtle changes to moves/abilities of other Pokemon to make them more worthwhile. Imagine, if you could, a Poison-typed weather that each turn Poisons all non-Poison (and non-Steel) Pokemon, and if they are already Poisoned upgrades it to Toxic-poisoning? Bulky waters / the pink sisters / non-Guts setup sweepers would weep.

I am actually all for seeing Normal as a lone typing for CAP4, provided there is a proper gimmick. But I'm not thinking of another Castform - rather taking everything in a whole other direction. I'll be probably submitting this idea when CAP4 rolls around, but if others want to steal it, feel free to, more chances it'll get brought up:

(Chances are this is straying too far into competitive territory for the Kitchen topic - I probably took the liberty of 'discussing CAP4' too far. If so, I'm sorry, let me know if I should take this out)

...

---

CAP has been exploring what individual Pokemon bring in to the metagame for a long time now, but there never was a chance to see what a new move unleashed on the metagame could do. Stratagem and Kitsunoh got new moves made for them they kept exclusively, but what would be the consequences of a new move becoming widely available to a wide variety of Pokemon? BW already gave us plenty examples otherwise: VoltSwitch as an alternative U-Turn, Hurricane to create new rain abusers, Psyshock to auto-win Calm Mind wars.... and do I even have to explain Scald?

But since CAP is 'Create-A-Pokemon', what if for once we made a Pokemon who is individually on the weaker side, or gimmicky, but possesses a move it can put to use on a very niche set, and moreover, can pass on this move to all kinds of other Pokemon, both OU and below? What would be the consequences of such a move hitting the egg moves lists for a significant portion of Pokemon families? 50, 80, 100 families, more?

And Normal type (like Smeargle) would be totally appropriate for it, although the move itself need not be Normal-type. It'd also add extra significance to Egg groups (it'd most likely need to be Field and/or one of the Water groups for the widest possible distribution).

As for what moves to do? There's so much room to explore. Let me just hint at a couple ideas. Imagine these if you can:
-A Stealth Rock variant with a different typing (Grass would make the bulkiest OU walls that have Water, Rock and/or Ground typing weep, and potentially threaten rain and sand as entire playstyles, while inviting Grass-resistant types like Fire, Bug, Poison and Grass itself to grow in popularity).
-A Toxic Spikes variant inflicting a different status, needing only one layer, like Burn (and absorbed by Fire types) or Paralysis (and absorbed by Grounded Electrics, so not Rotom).
- The aforementioned Poison-weather.
-A Dragon-type Pursuit variant that also reaches non-Dragon types' movepools. Would the rampaging Dragons still sweep so easily if at every turn they had the same fear as Ghosts and Psychics now have? (Shame Metagross can't get egg moves because this would be a great niche for him, and all other kinds of Steels)
- Priority moves for types that don't have them yet? (How many new Pokemon would be viable if not for 'it still dies to priority attacks' or 'has no priority of its own'?)
- Trick Room-alike moves with effects like "for 5 turns, the current weather cannot change" (preventing weather changes and/or prolonging its duration past the limit) or "for 5 turns, all moves hit with neutral effectiveness" (removing weaknesses but also hitting otherwise immune types? It'd be a huge upgrade over Foresight).
- A 'reverse-sketch' move, which is an attack with a bad typing, low base power, little PP, but upon hitting a Pokemon it OVERWRITES the last move it just used and adds itself to its moveset? Imagine how the Pokemon game itself would change if you could alter the enemy's movesets with a single move! Like removing the sole attack of RestTalk boosters, or stealing Recovery off of walls, or the only coverage move that a sweeper can hit with (or their key Hidden Power as well?) The game as we know it would transform into something we've never seen before (okay maybe this last one is Moody-level broken but it's thought-provoking, isn't it?)

Every single one of those moves freely distributed among the current Pokemon would shake up the metagame so hard... and I'm sure there are others. I'm excited by this prospect and it's something CAP never explored before, so I'll be pitching it in when CAP4 concepts roll around.

If you like this idea (or you hate it with a passion) please comment and tell me what you think about it. I'm open to all discussion.

[SgtWoodsy]

I want to see a Dragon/Fighting type since

a) Game Freak are too pussy to do it
b) I want to see if we can make something with really good typing not unintentionally Uber for a change

[trulyElse]

I kinda want to see Normal/Ghost. Being immune to your own STABs makes you a decent check to yourself, and carrying only one weakness but three immunities and two resistances theoretically makes you quite useful as a wall / support.

I'm kind of expecting that CAP4 will at least secondarilly try to balance the weather of the CAP metagame, even though that's not what CAP is about.

[akela]

Something that I look forward to is an attempt to balance weathers a bit. Ever since Mollux, I've been trying to get a feel for CAP. Of course, this means creating my own fakemons.

As it stands, there isn't a lot of incentive to run anything other than Water. Too many things reap rewards from it. Some have nothing to fear from the moves boosted by Water. With Sun, everything with chloro is weak to the moves boosted by sun. Solar power limits the life span of everything with it. Sure, dry skin gets rid of the pesky water weakness, but you are taking damage every turn from the sun. Flower Gift is only on Cherrim, which is nuked by even weak Fire moves. The same problem befalls Leaf Guard.

Sand is about the only viable alternative to Rain. I say this because a few pokemon have been placed on the banlist thanks to their Sand boosted abilities.

Yeah, I ignored hail. Not much to say about it. Least supported of the abilities. Fewest pokemon reap any rewards from it. Abomasnow, Mamoswine, and Froslass are the ones that make the most use of it. OU and UU. The rest of NU or LC. And I think only Aboma is OU because of the lower tier bans on weather.

What I am trying to say is that Rain dominates OU and CAP. If you are not running Rain, you are trying to screw with your opponent's Rain. Necturna doesn't fear fire as much. Mollux becomes a huge pain. Argho, Krilo, and Cyclohm all directly benefit from rain. Voodoom deals with all Electric issues.

I guess I am looking forward to one of four things with CAP4. (1) Something that gives rise to Sun; (2) Something that gives rise to Hail; (3) Something that thrives in no weather; or (4) Something that thrives in all weather. Basically, something that brings variety to the metagame beyond Start Rain/Sand, use -mostly- CAPmons.

[ShyGuy1221]

I've been thinking whether or not it would be even possible to make a CaP that can single handedly bring hail out of from the shadows of every other whether in the game with the current list of hail abilities. If there was some hail version of Swift Swim or Flower Gift this wouldn't be much of a problem, but as is, the only way to abuse hail is to have usable/high SpAtk with Blizzard, Snow Cloak, or Ice Body. I know we can make abilities, but I always feel like that is the cop-out option. With Hail's current toys, I think one of the only ways we could make something like a pseudo Garchomp for hail, not quite as powerful to be broken, but powerful enough to be a threat when hail is up.

[The Reptile]

I would like to say that a Grass / Fighting would be super cool for a Drought mon, as it resists Stealth Rock (something Sun teams hate) and prevents doubling up Fire-types (this works with Rain because Water is actually good defensive typing), not to mention it hits every other current Weather Starter SE except for itself and Ninetails, both of which set-up sun. Extra fire weakness sucks, but I'd still use that over Ninetails. It's typing would also help VS Rain, which is super common (although x4 weakness to Hurricane REALLY sucks).

As for hail, I think we would need something that isn't Ice-type but gets Ice Body / Snow Cloak anyways that can use Blizzard as a coverage move. Maybe something like a Water / Grass with Ice Body for extra health? Hell, Water / Grass with Snow Warning would be cool. I don't think it would boost Hail a lot though, but it would help it.

[srk1214]

I just want to say this: if you think Hail actually needs a lot of help in the CAP meta, you don't know it very well. If you're talking about OU, sure. But not CAP.

[Doran Dragon]

a poison/normal rat pokemon with camoflauge Ie Twitch

[ShyGuy1221]

Yes in the CaP meta, Syclant and Krillowatt really help out hail. I was referring to OU.

On a less competitive note, I would like to see a future CaP with a relatively low BST. I don't know (and too tired to check right now) if there is any CaP, whether gen IV or V, that has a BST less than 500. But look at stuff like Breloom, who is a very dangerous pokemon despite a BST of only 460, because it stats are in the right places, and it has the abilities and the movepool to pull it off.