Creative (and good) Movesets Mk II (READ THE OP FIRST)

[bubbly]

Yeah actually, I've seen Starmie use Trick Orb effectively as well, mainly for Ferrothorn. I'd be a bit worried when using that Celebi that Heatran doesn't care at all about anything you can do, and same for a lot of common special attackers which like to switch in like Latios and Gengar. Not a bad set at all though.

[Alexander.]

Victini @ Fire Gem
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- V-create
- Final Gambit
- Fusion Bolt


I want post it here. This set is incredible, it can destroy any sun team (without heatran) and hit hard everything with V-create boosted from Fire Gem and sun. Fusion bolt is for Politoed and other water types, Final Gambit is mainly for Tyranitar and Hippowdon.

[Joel]

Originally Posted by Fat A l e x a n d e r

Victini @ Fire Gem
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- V-create
- Final Gambit
- Fusion Bolt


I want post it here. This set is incredible, it can destroy any sun team (without heatran) and hit hard everything with V-create boosted from Fire Gem and sun. Fusion bolt is for Politoed and other water types, Final Gambit is mainly for Tyranitar and Hippowdon.

Should there be a 0 Speed IV for your set?

[Zacchaeus]

Originally Posted by Fat A l e x a n d e r

Victini @ Fire Gem
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- V-create
- Final Gambit
- Fusion Bolt

Victini has a great movepool and Final Gambit is such a waste in my opinion. Why not use more specific moves to counter threats such as Hippowdon or Tyranitar instead of just sacrificing yourself and hoping to take them out?

4 SpAtk Life Orb Victini Grass Knot vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Hippowdon (+SpDef) : 47.62% - 56.19%
4 SpAtk Life Orb Victini Grass Knot vs 252 HP/120 SpDef Tyranitar (+SpDef) : 30.2% - 35.64%

Grass Knot clearly takes care of Hippowdon and does some damage to Tyranitar, especially if it isn't a specially defensive variant.

252 Atk Life Orb Victini (+Atk) Brick Break vs 252 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 89.11% - 104.95%
252 Atk Life Orb Victini (+Atk) Brick Break vs 252 HP/0 Def Heatran: 48.19% - 56.99%

Brick Break can usually let Victini win against Tyranitar and Heatran with enough investment (which is likely considering V-Create)

So clearly you can't run Trick Room, V-Create, Fusion Bolt, Brick Break, and Grass Knot, but I just hate Final Gambit and I think that Victini shouldn't rely on it for hoping to beat certain threats

[Alexander.]

Originally Posted by Fat Zacchaeus

Victini has a great movepool and Final Gambit is such a waste in my opinion. Why not use more specific moves to counter threats such as Hippowdon or Tyranitar instead of just sacrificing yourself and hoping to take them out?

4 SpAtk Life Orb Victini Grass Knot vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Hippowdon (+SpDef) : 47.62% - 56.19%
4 SpAtk Life Orb Victini Grass Knot vs 252 HP/120 SpDef Tyranitar (+SpDef) : 30.2% - 35.64%

Grass Knot clearly takes care of Hippowdon and does some damage to Tyranitar, especially if it isn't a specially defensive variant.

252 Atk Life Orb Victini (+Atk) Brick Break vs 252 HP/0 Def Tyranitar: 89.11% - 104.95%
252 Atk Life Orb Victini (+Atk) Brick Break vs 252 HP/0 Def Heatran: 48.19% - 56.99%

Brick Break can usually let Victini win against Tyranitar and Heatran with enough investment (which is likely considering V-Create)

So clearly you can't run Trick Room, V-Create, Fusion Bolt, Brick Break, and Grass Knot, but I just hate Final Gambit and I think that Victini shouldn't rely on it for hoping to beat certain threats

I'm agree with you, I hate Final Gambit too, but I use this Victini in sun team, so if I kill hippowdon or tyranitar I won, in practice.
Also, if I use brick break I can't touch decently hippowdon and if I use grass knot I lost my Victini against Tyranitar.

edit: it also has no ivs in speed

[tehy]

I see a flaw in this entire argument, namely;Doesn't grass knot deal with bulky waters well enough? I suppose there are a few, like vaporeon and tentacruel, that don't care as much, but they generally have low physical bulk, and that assumes they've invested much in it at all. V-create ought to be able to break them. (Well, not in rain, but in rain that set's easier to counter anyhow)

Also, if you're a trick room set, hp is nice, but why not just run 252 attack and 252 Special attack?

[Alexander.]

Originally Posted by Fat tehy

I see a flaw in this entire argument, namely;Doesn't grass knot deal with bulky waters well enough? I suppose there are a few, like vaporeon and tentacruel, that don't care as much, but they generally have low physical bulk, and that assumes they've invested much in it at all. V-create ought to be able to break them. (Well, not in rain, but in rain that set's easier to counter anyhow)

Also, if you're a trick room set, hp is nice, but why not just run 252 attack and 252 Special attack?

This set must works in sun obviously, where V-Create is powerful. He isn't 252 special attack and 252 attack because I don't want a mixed sweeper.
And... What type of hidden power?

[LudwiG]

Originally Posted by Fat tehy

I see a flaw in this entire argument, namely;Doesn't grass knot deal with bulky waters well enough? I suppose there are a few, like vaporeon and tentacruel, that don't care as much, but they generally have low physical bulk, and that assumes they've invested much in it at all. V-create ought to be able to break them. (Well, not in rain, but in rain that set's easier to counter anyhow)

Also, if you're a trick room set, hp is nice, but why not just run 252 attack and 252 Special attack?

Fusion bolt deals with bulky waters.

[Alexander.]

Fusion bolt is only for switch in of politoed, however. I prefer hit bulky water with V-Create boosted from fire gem in sun.

[tehy]

Originally Posted by Fat LudwiG

Fusion bolt deals with bulky waters.

And so does grass knot. Since the entire argument revolved around not being able to fit all five moves into the set, i figured, why not just cut out fusion bolt if all it does is deal with bulky waters? See, that's why i said "well ENOUGH".


And if it's just for politoed, it seems like you could still knot it. It's likely to have better special than physical bulk, but still.

When i said HP i meant... HP evs. If you don't want a mixed sweeper, fine, but i still think it's a better idea. As for "obviously"..., well, there is such a thing as losing the weather war, especially considering that politoed can switch in on fire-type STAB easily, while ninetales has a greater problem switching into water-type STAB and takes 25% from SR.

[Alexander.]

Originally Posted by Fat tehy

And so does grass knot. Since the entire argument revolved around not being able to fit all five moves into the set, i figured, why not just cut out fusion bolt if all it does is deal with bulky waters? See, that's why i said "well ENOUGH".


And if it's just for politoed, it seems like you could still knot it. It's likely to have better special than physical bulk, but still.

When i said HP i meant... HP evs. If you don't want a mixed sweeper, fine, but i still think it's a better idea. As for "obviously"..., well, there is such a thing as losing the weather war, especially considering that politoed can switch in on fire-type STAB easily, while ninetales has a greater problem switching into water-type STAB and takes 25% from SR.

Also politoed can't switch in easily on ninetales because it has will-o-wisp and sunny day.
However, I will try grass knot and your evs spread on Victini, thanks.

[Electrolyte]

grass knot does not do much to most water type walls, and is more for desperate needs of coverage and hitting Rock or Ground types. Grass knot should not be on Victini, because it uses up too many evs for the sake of countering a type that Fusion Bolt does better. Grass knot only hits water/ground types harder than Fusion Bolt.

[alkinesthetase]

grass knot being special seems kind of disadvantageous on a strong physical attacker like victini. fusion bolt will probably hit harder in many situations. the only situation where grass knot wins out is against water/grounds like gastrodon and a 4x uninvested grass knot is not going to be a hell of a lot stronger than a 0.5x stab vcreate. really if you aren't final gambitting them in the face you shouldn't be staying in on them anyway, because they'll laugh at grass knot.

vap takes more from fbolt, cruel takes more from fbolt, toed takes more from fbolt. not to mention that all three normally invest in physical defense, not special defense, so vcreate won't break them unless you're in sun, packing the gem or both, and really victini is one of those pokemon where if you're in sun you can just be like "fuck the rules, fuck coverage moves, i have fire stab", so neither fbolt nor knot are relevant at that point (generalization). in sun you can obviously get away with just spamming vcreate until the game is over, but that's victini for you lol. no point in running coverage for sand starters when you're just gonna gambit them anyway.

[MX42]

Gallade.

The Anti Stall

Bulk Up
Drain Punch
Night Slash
Ice Punch

200 Hp, 56 Atk, 252 SpD

Careful


Awesome team. Works great as an anti rain, as all it really fears is Torn T. But after a Bulk Up or two...

[UltiMario]

Originally Posted by Fat A l e x a n d e r

Victini @ Fire Gem
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- V-create
- Final Gambit
- Fusion Bolt


I want post it here. This set is incredible, it can destroy any sun team (without heatran) and hit hard everything with V-create boosted from Fire Gem and sun. Fusion bolt is for Politoed and other water types, Final Gambit is mainly for Tyranitar and Hippowdon.

I'll probably switch Final Gambit out for Brick Break but Holy shit. This set looks wonderful. I'll be testing this on some new team soon, but likely with some move replacing Final Gambit

[Electrolyte]

Originally Posted by Fat MX42

Gallade.

The Anti Stall

Bulk Up
Drain Punch
Night Slash
Ice Punch

200 Hp, 56 Atk, 252 SpD

Careful


Awesome team. Works great as an anti rain, as all it really fears is Torn T. But after a Bulk Up or two...

Ahem. While this set is very effective in its relative tier, it is really hard to pull off due to Gallade's lack of speed. Base 80 is not much, especially when it is not boosted at all. Anything with a mildly powerful special or physical move before Gallade can set up can take it out. This insclides, but is not restricted to Genesect, Latios, and Keldeo, all who can KO with a STAB, Keldeo and Genesect that can even live a boosted hit. I really recommend Shadow Sneak here, as it helps you with your last ditch efforts against faster pokemon. It hits the things Night Slash does, just with priority.

I really don't get why it would be anti stall however. It is susceptible to both hazardss and phazing, and its lack of immediate power means that you'll have a hard time setting up. Skarmory is a real problem here, as it doesn't take much frim even +2 DPunch and can Whirlwind away or just pummel with brave bird. Your set is also really really weak to status, as a burn would end you, paralysis would cripple you hard, and sleep would make you easy to set up on.

[Alexander.]

Originally Posted by Fat UltiMario

I'll probably switch Final Gambit out for Brick Break but Holy shit. This set looks wonderful. I'll be testing this on some new team soon, but likely with some move replacing Final Gambit

Thanks! Unfortunately if I use brick break on Victini, it's blocked hard from hippowdon

[Superpowerdude]

hmm what about U-turn>Final Gambit that is especially good on full Trickroom teams so you can get one of your sweepers in. Or a pokemon that can handle Hippowdon.

p.s awesome set btw i must try it it looks so "Anti-Sun" even if it is not used on a Full Trickroom team because Cholorphyl sweepers won't apreaciate having terrible speed stats in sun. Great set for weatherless teams which usaully have sun problems.

[Alexander.]

Good idea superpowerdude, I really like it. I will try u-turn

[tehy]

Originally Posted by Fat alkinesthetase

grass knot being special seems kind of disadvantageous on a strong physical attacker like victini. fusion bolt will probably hit harder in many situations. the only situation where grass knot wins out is against water/grounds like gastrodon and a 4x uninvested grass knot is not going to be a hell of a lot stronger than a 0.5x stab vcreate. really if you aren't final gambitting them in the face you shouldn't be staying in on them anyway, because they'll laugh at grass knot.

vap takes more from fbolt, cruel takes more from fbolt, toed takes more from fbolt. not to mention that all three normally invest in physical defense, not special defense, so vcreate won't break them unless you're in sun, packing the gem or both, and really victini is one of those pokemon where if you're in sun you can just be like "fuck the rules, fuck coverage moves, i have fire stab", so neither fbolt nor knot are relevant at that point (generalization). in sun you can obviously get away with just spamming vcreate until the game is over, but that's victini for you lol. no point in running coverage for sand starters when you're just gonna gambit them anyway.

A strong physical attacker? It's got the same base attack and spatk, and i recommended that it be ev'd in special attack. Seeing as it's a TR set, he's not giving up speed, just bulk, in return for making it much more threatening. And i clearly said most of those take more from Fbolt already. Also, slowbro says hello. And since this guy's really supposed to TR on the switch, 2hitko'ing him isn't going to cut it. If you're going to hit him on the switch-in, you should at least make it an OHKO, or close.
Yeah, if you want to final gambit things that's cool, but i'd prefer to move away from a one-shot move that only works in certain circumstances, and instead go for coverage. After all, victini has the power to KO plenty of stuff, and under TR, to outspeed it too.

As for u-turn, i suppose that works, but on an SR-weak pokemon, switching in and out isn't the greatest response to being walled. Try it if you like though, it could work.

[Alexander.]

I like to put here some sets so...


Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic / Surf / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick
- Healing Wish

I love the versatility of this Latias. It's a very good revengekiller of other dragons and of kami with choice scarf, it can use trick on walls like Blissey, Chansey and Jirachi and when it's almost dead, it can fully recharge a teammate. This set is a good support for many team, I suggest you to try it.

[Jimbon]

Originally Posted by Fat A l e x a n d e r

I like to put here some sets so...


Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic / Surf / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick
- Healing Wish

I love the versatility of this Latias. It's a very good revengekiller of other dragons and of kami with choice scarf, it can use trick on walls like Blissey, Chansey and Jirachi and when it's almost dead, it can fully recharge a teammate. This set is a good support for many team, I suggest you to try it.

I have been using a similar set to this and I can definitely attest to it's effectiveness. It outspeeds all other common Dragons, even when they're scarf bar Latios which is nice for grabbing a surprise kill on a +1 Dragonite or Scarf Salamence. It's also a great offensive check to Sun and Rain, with it's great natural special bulk which is what Scarf Latios cannot successfully pull off. Generally for the moves I find Hidden Power [Fire] the most useful as Latias's second moveslot. With Draco Meteor you hit everything that isn't a Steel type, which is what Hidden Power [Fire] hits. Even Heatran who is the only common resist to Dragon and Fire does not appreciate a Trick, as if it switches in on Latias it's going to be Specially Defensive and Trick pretty much renders it useless.

[Bl1tzkri3g]

I like to put here some sets so...


Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic / Surf / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick
- Healing Wish

I love the versatility of this Latias. It's a very good revengekiller of other dragons and of kami with choice scarf, it can use trick on walls like Blissey, Chansey and Jirachi and when it's almost dead, it can fully recharge a teammate. This set is a good support for many team, I suggest you to try it.

I also really like this set. I've found Hp Fire is almost mandatory, or else you get raped by scizor before you can utilize Scarf Latias to her fullest.

@ Chesto Berry
248 Hp/ 252 SpD/ 8 Spd
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)

• Rest
• Stealth Rock
• Magma Storm/Fire Blast/Lava Plume
• Roar/Earth Power/Hp Grass

ChestoRest Heatran is a champ, takes status well, and really solves Heatran's problem of being worn down too quickly. In most matches I'll find that heatran takes hits well enough, but just cant stand up to a repeated onslaught. This is why this set works so well; it removes the problem of getting beat down. Moves are easy, Rocks cause everyone needs them, Rest is obvious, and the others are just filler. This is such a good set.

[Skore]

Originally Posted by Fat A l e x a n d e r

Victini @ Fire Gem
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- V-create
- Final Gambit
- Fusion Bolt

Throwing my support in for this little gem. Decided to build a trickroom sun team just to test it and oh wow. It kicks ass in a bad way. I swapped Final Gambit out for Brick Break to take out T-Tar and it did the job nicely.

[Ashley11]

Gengar@focus sash
Ability: levitate
Nature timid
Evs 252 speed 252 spA 4 spD
Counter
Destiny bond
Shadow ball
Hypnosis/sludge bomb/will o wisp

This set is great overall, with the right teammates. It is mainly a sacrifice of one of your pokes to take down two of your opponets'. Counter is to kill of anything that desires to kill you with a physical move, and destiny bond is for you to get rid of one more thing before you die. Shadow ball is for an attack to use if you can't kill something else before you die with destiny bond, and then you have a utility filler. You can have hypnosis to get something asleep, sludge bomb for more coverage, or will o wisp for crippling.

This set is unpredictable and people will not expect it. You can almost guarantee one KO, and maybe more. You will need a spinner though for stealth rocks. Thankfully you won't have to worry about spikes because of levitate.

All credit of this goes to killer nacho off of YouTube.