Official Smogon University Simulator Statistics — August 2012

[Silvershadow234]

Crobat is an excellent anti-metagame poke in UU-checking Scrafty, Mienshao and Heracross. If you need some more power, go with the CB set. Brave Bird is incredibly powerful-1HKOing Scrafty at +1. Crobat's main selling point is his excellent speed. Yanmega has an awful defensive typing, and is 4X weak to SR, and Honchkrow is no-where near as fast. Togekiss is a great stall-breaker, but still isn't capable of taking out Heracross or Mienshao like Crobat is. Crobat makes a great anti-lead, thanks to Taunt and U-turn.

[sfgiantsfanmike]

And Keldeo as 46? You've got to be kidding me. He is a great offensive option for rain teams. Tornadus-T can not be solely responsible for keeping his usage down ~_~

Sorry for losing the user name, my phone got delete happy...

One reason for Keldeo being so low could be the unfamilarity with the water/fighting combo. The only other 'mon that shares this typing, off the top of my head, is Poliwrath and he's RU for good reason.

After picking up my Keldeo from GS this week I checked him out and was pleasantly surprised with his weakness/resistance chart. Seeing an old friend of mine all the way down in NU (Articuno) I know BST is meaningless with bad typing or odd negative ability, so Keldeo having nice stats may not bw enough to lure in people that have a negative image of his typing.

Just the two cents of a competative newbie.

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Originally Posted by Fat Antihaxxer

Why use Crobat ? Just Heracross & Roserade ...Resists *4 MegaHorn, Close Combat, Leaf Storm, and Resists *2 Sludge Bomb. Faster than the 2 pokemon, nice stab and moveset (Brave Bird, Taunt, Roost, U-Turn for example)

A good anti metagame UU

Originally Posted by Fat Silvershadow234

Crobat is an excellent anti-metagame poke in UU-checking Scrafty, Mienshao and Heracross. If you need some more power, go with the CB set. Brave Bird is incredibly powerful-1HKOing Scrafty at +1. Crobat's main selling point is his excellent speed. Yanmega has an awful defensive typing, and is 4X weak to SR, and Honchkrow is no-where near as fast. Togekiss is a great stall-breaker, but still isn't capable of taking out Heracross or Mienshao like Crobat is. Crobat makes a great anti-lead, thanks to Taunt and U-turn.

Hmm, now that I think of it, Crobat has just enough tools to be a solid stallbreaker. Scrafty and Mienshao's fall possibly made the biggest contribution to Crobat's high popularity, since before they dropped to UU Crobat was never this high. The other Flying-types simply don't have Crobat's speed to dismantle what you mentioned it could beat. (Not to mention Honch and Togekiss take neutral damage from Fighting-type moves)

But you two forgot something else Crobat can check: Shaymin. Crobat quad resists Seed Flare, and is immune to Earth Power. Not to mention Air Slash isn't that powerful. Since Crobat outspeeds Shaymin (all the other Flying-types are either slower than Shaymin or speed tie with it at best), it can go for the KO with Brave Bird.

So in short, Crobat seems like a pretty good anti-meta Pokemon now that you made me think of it. It has the speed and the resistances to do this pretty well (not to mention it has Taunt, which is pretty neat).

[Razza]

Originally Posted by Fat Dark Fallen Angel

Well, forgot what I've said, you are right. What is happening is that this set was effective back on B1W1 when Superpower was illegal with Icicle Crash (and that's why everyone used Stone Edge) and the Focus Sash set wasn't the standard. Bulky Volcarona and Adamant Lucario were outspeed when Mamoswine was using a Jolly nature with max speed. This set wasn't really meant to be used as a wallbreaker; it was to get surprise kills on the opponent. It's gimmicky, but can be effective.

I forgot to explain this, sorry. Nowadays I don't know if this set is effective, because I never tried to use Expert Belt with Mamoswine.

i cant see ebelt mamoswine getting any surprise kills even in BW1, i think that using ebelt over sash is just a waste, there are no situations where it is going to get any extra kos, stab SE EQ is ohking p much anything, and i cant think of any situations where Ebelt is going to boost the ice moves sufficiently that it is worth forgoing sash.

[Antihaxxer]

Originally Posted by Fat ScraftyIsTheBest

Hmm, now that I think of it, Crobat has just enough tools to be a solid stallbreaker. Scrafty and Mienshao's fall possibly made the biggest contribution to Crobat's high popularity, since before they dropped to UU Crobat was never this high. The other Flying-types simply don't have Crobat's speed to dismantle what you mentioned it could beat. (Not to mention Honch and Togekiss take neutral damage from Fighting-type moves)

But you two forgot something else Crobat can check: Shaymin. Crobat quad resists Seed Flare, and is immune to Earth Power. Not to mention Air Slash isn't that powerful. Since Crobat outspeeds Shaymin (all the other Flying-types are either slower than Shaymin or speed tie with it at best), it can go for the KO with Brave Bird.

So in short, Crobat seems like a pretty good anti-meta Pokemon now that you made me think of it. It has the speed and the resistances to do this pretty well (not to mention it has Taunt, which is pretty neat).

Yes ! Crobat is a Beast. He counters to so well Fighting, Ground, Bug, Grass attacks

[Admiral Bobbery]

Can I ask, why is it that Lucario is so (relatively) high in usage? I mean he's way ahead of things like Keldeo, as well as Celebi, Reuniclus, Conkeldurr, even Dugtrio, who is extremely useful for winning the weather war in this meta and pairs extremely well with Genesect and Tornadus-T. It's not that I don't like Lucario, but he just doesn't seem fit for this metagame. He is neither fast enough to deal with threats like Terrakion, Starmie, or Tornadus-T, nor is he strong enough to KO many threats without a boost. I just don't get why he's so high in usage. Could someone explain it to me?

[alkinesthetase]

i think part of it is the strength of deoxys-D hyper offense, which is one of the easiest weatherless teams to run right now (and hyper offense in general). luke is like the best setup sweeper ever (okay obvious exaggeration but it's REALLY good at it) so it works well with those kinds of teams.

[Lord of Bays]

Originally Posted by Fat Admiral Bobbery

Can I ask, why is it that Lucario is so (relatively) high in usage? I mean he's way ahead of things like Keldeo, as well as Celebi, Reuniclus, Conkeldurr, even Dugtrio, who is extremely useful for winning the weather war in this meta and pairs extremely well with Genesect and Tornadus-T. It's not that I don't like Lucario, but he just doesn't seem fit for this metagame. He is neither fast enough to deal with threats like Terrakion, Starmie, or Tornadus-T, nor is he strong enough to KO many threats without a boost. I just don't get why he's so high in usage. Could someone explain it to me?

Adamant Life Orb ExtremeSpeed. I've lost count of the amount of times I've gone "Well, this is my last 'real' sweeper, but if I clear Lucario, the rest of my team is good enough to finish up," and then ESpeed one-shots me from 70%.

[Antihaxxer]

Exactly, Lucario is used for Extreme Speed. If you manage to pull a boost, it's often over

[Chimpakt]

lucario is capable of setting up on a wide variety of pokemon in the metagame. Ferrothorn, tyranitar, CB/Scarf Terrakion stone edging, -2 latios, scarftoed, to name a few. And it can scare away pokemon like heatran, mamoswine, kyurem, etc. one SD boost is all it takes to 6-0 a team with Extreme speed and CC. If it doesnt sweep the team, it is still capable of doing lots of damage to it, opening up a window for another pokemon to clean up.

[Anikrahman1995]

Originally Posted by Fat Chimpakt

lucario is capable of setting up on a wide variety of pokemon in the metagame. Ferrothorn, tyranitar, CB/Scarf Terrakion stone edging, -2 latios, scarftoed, to name a few. And it can scare away pokemon like heatran, mamoswine, kyurem, etc. one SD boost is all it takes to 6-0 a team with Extreme speed and CC. If it doesnt sweep the team, it is still capable of doing lots of damage to it, opening up a window for another pokemon to clean up.

Nitpicking here. It doesnt scare out Kyurem. Kyurem is faster and can OHKO with Earth Power. Kyurem can also take a +2 Extremespeed after Stealth Rock.

[Agent Dell]

Originally Posted by Fat Anikrahman1995

Nitpicking here. It doesnt scare out Kyurem. Kyurem is faster and can OHKO with Earth Power. Kyurem can also take a +2 Extremespeed after Stealth Rock.

Even then, Lucario is still capable of setting up on Kyurem Choice locked into its STAB moves, and won't be able to come back in safely. Sure, it can revenge kill in certain occasions, but it will still lose to Bullet Punch, Vacuum Wave (Nasty Plot), and Agility varients.

[Anikrahman1995]

Originally Posted by Fat Agent Dell

Even then, Lucario is still capable of setting up on Kyurem Choice locked into its STAB moves, and won't be able to come back in safely. Sure, it can revenge kill in certain occasions, but it will still lose to Bullet Punch, Vacuum Wave (Nasty Plot), and Agility varients.

591 Atk vs 176 Def & 281 HP (120 Base Power): 216 - 255 (76.87% - 90.75%)
Specs Blizzard vs Lucario. Stealth Rock + Hail + Life Orb recoil + Another Round of Hail = Dead Lucario(Assuming very low Damage roll).
BTW dont bring up -2 Draco Meteor because that can be said for pretty much any Dragon at -2. Kyurem's other possible choice locked move are Earth Power and Focus Blast which are Guaranteed KOs.
He listed Kyurem with Heatran and Mamoswine. From this you can tell that he did not mean choiced Kyurem. Lucario can set up on basically any pokemon choice locked into the wrong move. Eg Magnezone locked into Flash Cannon.

[G-Von]

People always talk about Lucario being used as a physical attacker. Running a AgiliPlot Lucario has been working wonders for me. Modest Nature with Aurora Sphere and Shadow Ball complete runs through everything in sight once it finds a chance to set up.

That's another reason why his usage is so high: he can attack from both sides. He is a very versatile pokemon with a good typing to boot.

[Chimpakt]

Yea that was my bad. My lucario has outsped nearly every Kyurem I played on ladder, and I just forgot Kyurem was faster lol.

[Stone RG]

First of all, nasty plot/aglity luke are gimmicky sets, the former suffers heavily fro 4 moveslot syndrome, if you run vaccum wave, all flying types and psychic types demolish you, you wanna run HP ice, terrakion, landorus, and pretty much anything faster says hi. The later hits nowhere as hard.

On the other hand guys, i have seen a ridicoulus amount of metagross lately, wtf is wrong with you people? And for the guy that said that crobat sucks, another one of its niches is its ability to set up your weather, come in with U-Turn/after Crobat dies and say bye bye to 3 of your opponent's pokes most of the time.

Finally, please dont let keldeo to drop to UU, its OP in OU, i dont want more rain abusers, im begging you, we already have tornadus in UU next month.

[Dark Fallen Angel]

About Nasty Plot Lucario, I've used one in B1W1 and it worked wonders. There weren't too many faster Pokémon resistant to Vacuum Wave as there is now, and this set was pretty good in eliminating even Blissey and Chansey. Nowadays, I don't know if it works, however. But I wouldn't say that it's gimmick; it's just not as effective as it was in the past. There's a good reason why Smogon doesn't list the Nasty Plot set as one of the main sets anymore, but now in OO.

Also, Keldeo will not drop to UU. I think that people should at least reconigze it's potential. Even if Keldeo drops to UU I beg that it will instantly be sent to BL due to the fact that it can OHKO or at least 2HKO many things on the UU metagame. Keldeo is just too powerful for UU. It's even powerful for OU; it's just underrated.

[alkinesthetase]

i have nothing against NP luke, but double-boosting luke is probably a few too many moveslots to throw away. with a mon that's as easy to kill as luke (those defensive stats be intense >_>) and already having so much 4mss, you're probably only gonna get one boost so you need to open as many holes as possible. luke's movepool is overflowing with priority so imo its appreciation for speed boosts is rather reduced. i'd probably rather run vacuum wave than agility on an NP set, overall.

and if keldeo does drop to UU its stint there will probably be very short. that hydro pump + secret sword is probably gonna be a bit too much for UU. viriz might drop to UU in the next round of tiering but it's got nowhere near as much going for it as keldeo (i was looking at old RMT archive teams though and i was surprised to see so many SD virizion lying around in history... it's just a teeny bit short of having everything it needs imo)

[Jimbon]

Man, it seems crazy that Keldeo could go UU. Choice Specs Keldeo is one of the biggest threats in the metagame right now, as even it's "counters" Celebi, Jellicent and Latias get 2HKO'd on the switch by the correct Hidden Power. Sub Calm Mind Keldeo on the other hand simply dismantles stall, being able to hit on both sides of the spectrum without having to go mixed is a godsend, and I cannot understand why Keldeo usage is so low. Obviously it might have something to do with Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T, but Breloom has the same problems and finds itself at #9 in usage. It might have something to do with the increased usage of Sand in comparison with last month, as the weather inducers are slowly getting equal usage, or in Politoed's case, less usage.

But yeah, said this before and I'll say it again. UU is gonna be very interesting to see how it shapes out, with all the changes and decreased usage of individual Pokemon that others have mentioned, such as Virizion, Tornadus-I, Reuniclus, etc.

[IstheCakeReallyaLie]

I'm really surprised that Amoongus hasn't risen to at least RU. It makes me interested in NU, just to see what an impact it has on the overall meta.

Metagross is the most ironically named Pokemon ever. It's terrible for the meta; it has no niche. If it got SGear, I could see it being awesome, but this is the company that brought us such wonders as:

Final Gambit Shednja!

Any physical move Blissey!

Any non-fixed attacking move Chansey!

99 spd Genesect!

Farfetch'd!

Luvdisc!

Glalie!

Non-higher sp. atk. Frosslass!

Stealth Cocks! I mean Sneaky Stones! I mean Ninja Rocks! I mean Convert Ore! I mean Sly Pebbles! I mean that you get the point!

95 spd. Kyurem!


I could go on. And on. And on.

Keldeo is just awesome. Why wouldn't you like it? Hydro Pump up the volume! I'm using a Terrakion/Kelly core that works wonders in the current meta. Defensive threat? Hydro Pump. Normal threat? Your choice of HP Ghost/Surf/Secret Sword.

It's sort of a scary thought that so many things are becoming UU, and then they'll become RU, my other main tier, and then all hell breaks loose before they're banned. Of course, who knows, maybe UU will become OU: the Next Generation.

Final thought/question: can someone tell me the cutoff points for the tiers?

Edit: I'm seeing SSmash Shuckle way too much. Like, way too much.

[Danger Mouse]

Shuckle is one of the worst pokemon in existence. I'd rather use Farfetch'd. Shell Smash Shuckle is just laughable...seriously, even at +2, his attacking stats blow. At +4 they merely suck. At +6 they might be decent enough to make you realize you could have been using something much more effective like Luvdisc.

[IstheCakeReallyaLie]

Originally Posted by Fat Danger Mouse

Shuckle is one of the worst pokemon in existence. I'd rather use Farfetch'd. Shell Smash Shuckle is just laughable...seriously, even at +2, his attacking stats blow. At +4 they merely suck. At +6 they might be decent enough to make you realize you could have been using something much more effective like Luvdisc.

To be fair, they're using it with Contrary.

[Danger Mouse]

Hahha oh man that's even worse. Shuckle's so hard to beat, if only there were some way to...oh right, toxic.

[superstar]

Good to see Cofagarius leaving RU. It will really open up the meta and make it less centralized around pursuit-ghost-hazards

[Scarfwynaut]

Right now I am theorymoning a team hardcore style with user stats. For a second I was about to not consider Hippowdon a counter for Infernape, but then I saw this:

OU Stats:
| Overheat 23.481% |
| Fire Blast 11.729% |

Suspect OU stats
| Overheat 22.438% |
| Fire Blast 14.841% |

Lol, what the hell are you Infernape people thinking, Infernape needs these moves if is wants to do any wall breaking, your not sweeping teams in the end game and breaking down walls with fire punch and flare blitz, Im sorry, your not.