Snorlax (QC 0/3) (WIP)

alexwolf · Sep 28th, 2012, 6:44:36 PM

Took ScarfWynaut's skeleton which was pretty good, just changed a few things. Currently doing some tests with the Curse set, if i decide that it is good enough, i will get some logs to convince the QC team.

[Overview]

The once mighty king of older generations has fallen but is still useful
Special bulk and thick fat and high attack still allow it to be a powerful special tank
Can take on many special threats in the metagame and trap them like tyranitar, making it a boon to non-sand teams and a very good mon against Sun teams
Lack of recovery and non-existent speed hurt

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Return
move 2: Pursuit
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Fire Punch / Wild Charge
item: Choice Band
ability: Thick Fat
nature: Adamant
evs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Functions similarly to Tyranitar on sun or weatherless teams being able to trap and kill Latios, Latias, Gengar, Starmie
It can also counter Heatran and Volcarona, and check nearly every special attacker
Choice Band adds a needed attack boost to guarantee many KOs and successfully trap things
Return is a needed stab
Pursuit is a must to trap and kill stuff
Earthquake for Tyranitar, and Heatran, and Terrakion
Wild Charge is for Gengar and Jellicent
Fire punch can be useful on sun teams, and gets a neat chance at a 2HKO on Skarm, while also destroying Ferrothorn, Scizor and Forretress

[Additional Comments]

EVs focused on attack first to hit stuff, then special defense to take special hits much better
The special bulk gained from focusing in special defense is needed, for example with this spread Snorlax avoids a 2HKO from Specs Latios's Draco Meteor
Body slam > Return for paralysis chance, but the loss in power is rarely worth it
Crunch to outright kill Gengar
Superpower, Selfdestruct, and Double Edge
Snorlax doesn't appreciate passive damage from opposing weathers, so rain or sun support is useful
Sweepers that like the pokemon Snorlax can trap out of the way love him, for example Venusaur likes Latios and Latias out of the way
Defensive teams also like Starmie and Gengar trapped and killed to prevent spin blocking and spinning
Snorlax can't take boosted water hits, and it dreadfully weak against fighting types, so Celebi and Amoonguss make excellent partners
Rapid Spin support is useful to help it stick around longer
Wish support is cool. Vaporeon and Salamence have good synergy with Snorlax
Snorlax appreciates SR up to get many KOs

[Other Options]

Curse with 2 attacks and Rest
Rock slide guarantees a 1HKO on Volcarona, but that's pretty much it
RestTalk with Body Slam / Whirlwind / Rest / Sleep Talk is neat to phase, but the special attacks are to strong and the lack of good recovery hurts

[Checks and Counters]

Without fire punch, Skarm, Ferrothorn, Forretress
Vulnerable to Burn and Toxic
Heatran, Tyranitar, and Terrakion without Earthquake
Gliscor, Intimidate Gyarados, and Hippowdon are solid counters
Jellicent can come in and cripple with wisp
Once locked into a move many things can come in, almost any fighting type can revenge

yee · Sep 28th, 2012, 8:21:31 PM

QC Rejected 1/3

The Choice Band set lacks any real selling points- it's certainly not as good as Tyranitar on a weatherless team ("sand" teams with CB Tar are generally just non weather teams that have Tyranitar to counter other weather) being unable to cut off other weathers, plus it only has normal STAB to work with and can't recklessly switch into Lati@s when its comfortably 2HKOed by Psyshock after SR and Sand. Even if you get a one on one matchup by double switching you get a low health Snorlax that will be sack fodder for the rest of the game. As a side note I'm not sure how you're beating Reuniclus in the long run with a pokemon that gets worn down easily and barely even 2HKOes.

On sun teams in BW1 I would've accepted that it has a niche locking down threats like Volcarona but rolling with something as slow and easy to blast against as Snorlax is simply a terrible idea in this meta because you'll have not much more than a dead slot against standard offense.

The curse set is far from a good use of a pokemon slot- it was barely able to keep up with the power creep of DPP with a usable Rest. You have a bad attempt at a wall if that's the selling point and it's not that threatening of a pokemon in BW2 even if you were to let one set up a free Curse.

ShakeItUp · Sep 28th, 2012, 8:25:16 PM

Agreeing with Yee. This thing is just terrible.
QC REJECTED 2/3

alexwolf · Sep 28th, 2012, 8:42:12 PM

Yeah yee you are right about Reuniclus, removed him from the pokes he can trap and kill.

I am waiting for more QC input on this. Imo Snorlax is an ok poke, that has a niche, and there have been instances in the past where Snorlax was the poke that i was looking for in a slot for my team. But i won't try to convince anyone, we all know CBLax, so i am fine with him getting either rejected or accepted.

**PK Gaming** · Sep 28th, 2012, 9:15:01 PM

I'm just going to quote myself

Quote:

Ok, i'm posting in direct opposition of Pocket.

You should keep CB and axe every other set, since they're really bad in BW OU. Restalk got slammed by the mechanics change and is just a weak set in general and you will never successfully pull off a curse sweep in gen V. Physical attackers hit too hard (hell a good amount of Special Attackers "hit Snorlax too hard" like Psychock Latios). The tank set isn't necessarily bad, but I feel that's an (inferior) extension to the CB. It was good when Selfdestruct didn't suck, but now it's slash material at best. Snorlax as a whole isn't particular good in BW, and CB is the only set that allows it to keep up with the current metagame. I think there's a better spread out there, but i've got nothing for now so you'll have to wait on it.

Choice Band:

The moveset order should look like this:
-Return
-Pursuit
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch / Crunch

Earthquake is non-negotiable. You'll need it if you want to to get meaningful damage on things like Tyranitar, Heatran, etc so having it slashed is a bad idea. Fire Punch is almost as important, since it gets useful coverage on things like Ferrothorn & Forretress. I don't think slashing it with Wild Charge on the other hand is kind of a weak option and it has recoil. Crunch also targets Jellicent, and WC' isn't actually useful against Skarmory since it'll stall you out. Put it in AC, along with Body Slam.

I've used Choice Band Snorlax in BW OU2, and it's acceptable. Snorlax as a whole struggles with being "a special wall that can't really wall special attackers" so you might as well turn it offensive. Things like Tornadus-T and Hydreigon are off limits, but you're still good at "least" checking most special attackers (especially Volcorona) and CB Snorlax hits legitimately hard. Bonus points for being able to semi sponge Genesect's moves.

Choice Band Snorlax is the only one i'll approve.

alexwolf · Sep 28th, 2012, 9:36:39 PM

Removed the Curse set.

Lavos Spawn · Sep 28th, 2012, 10:41:19 PM

I have used CB Snorlax extensively in BW1 and I have come to the conclusion that it is not a Pokemon worth wasting a teamslot on (and I would imagine that the addition of threats such as Keldeo in BW2 make it even worse). It is too slow, too susceptible to status, and lacks recovery, often only getting in one hit before going down. In addition, many extremely common Pokemon threaten it immensely, including Terrakion, Breloom, and Scizor. It can't even switch into Politoed, supposedly one of its best selling points, because of the likely Scald burn that will occur. Finally, base 110 Attack is underwhelming, especially when common CB users in this metagame include Terrakion (base 129), Scizor (base 130), and Dragonite (base 134), all of which outclass Snorlax as a Choice Bander. You can try to make the argument that Snorlax has a niche in the metagame as a specially bulky tank, but I'm just not buying it. In this fast-paced, extremely offensive metagame, there's no room for a Snorlax to function anymore. The days of GSC and ADV are long behind us. Snorlax has been fading fast ever since DP, and the plethora of new threats that BW brought to the table aren't helping its case any.

QC Rejected 3/3

Don't take this personally, alexwolf. You're a good guy and you should keep writing analyses. Now just isn't the time or place for Snorlax.

**PK Gaming** · Sep 28th, 2012, 10:57:13 PM

R.I.P

Oglemi edit: I have hence removed Snorlax's current OU analysis as well

Sep 28th, 2012, 6:44:36 PM	#1
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,633 Greece	Snorlax (QC 0/3) (WIP) Took ScarfWynaut's skeleton which was pretty good, just changed a few things. Currently doing some tests with the Curse set, if i decide that it is good enough, i will get some logs to convince the QC team. [Overview] The once mighty king of older generations has fallen but is still useful Special bulk and thick fat and high attack still allow it to be a powerful special tank Can take on many special threats in the metagame and trap them like tyranitar, making it a boon to non-sand teams and a very good mon against Sun teams Lack of recovery and non-existent speed hurt [SET] name: Choice Band move 1: Return move 2: Pursuit move 3: Earthquake move 4: Fire Punch / Wild Charge item: Choice Band ability: Thick Fat nature: Adamant evs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 SpD [SET COMMENTS] Functions similarly to Tyranitar on sun or weatherless teams being able to trap and kill Latios, Latias, Gengar, Starmie It can also counter Heatran and Volcarona, and check nearly every special attacker Choice Band adds a needed attack boost to guarantee many KOs and successfully trap things Return is a needed stab Pursuit is a must to trap and kill stuff Earthquake for Tyranitar, and Heatran, and Terrakion Wild Charge is for Gengar and Jellicent Fire punch can be useful on sun teams, and gets a neat chance at a 2HKO on Skarm, while also destroying Ferrothorn, Scizor and Forretress [Additional Comments] EVs focused on attack first to hit stuff, then special defense to take special hits much better The special bulk gained from focusing in special defense is needed, for example with this spread Snorlax avoids a 2HKO from Specs Latios's Draco Meteor Body slam > Return for paralysis chance, but the loss in power is rarely worth it Crunch to outright kill Gengar Superpower, Selfdestruct, and Double Edge Snorlax doesn't appreciate passive damage from opposing weathers, so rain or sun support is useful Sweepers that like the pokemon Snorlax can trap out of the way love him, for example Venusaur likes Latios and Latias out of the way Defensive teams also like Starmie and Gengar trapped and killed to prevent spin blocking and spinning Snorlax can't take boosted water hits, and it dreadfully weak against fighting types, so Celebi and Amoonguss make excellent partners Rapid Spin support is useful to help it stick around longer Wish support is cool. Vaporeon and Salamence have good synergy with Snorlax Snorlax appreciates SR up to get many KOs [Other Options] Curse with 2 attacks and Rest Rock slide guarantees a 1HKO on Volcarona, but that's pretty much it RestTalk with Body Slam / Whirlwind / Rest / Sleep Talk is neat to phase, but the special attacks are to strong and the lack of good recovery hurts [Checks and Counters] Without fire punch, Skarm, Ferrothorn, Forretress Vulnerable to Burn and Toxic Heatran, Tyranitar, and Terrakion without Earthquake Gliscor, Intimidate Gyarados, and Hippowdon are solid counters Jellicent can come in and cripple with wisp Once locked into a move many things can come in, almost any fighting type can revenge __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check! Last edited by alexwolf; Sep 28th, 2012 at 9:36:18 PM.

Sep 28th, 2012, 8:25:16 PM	#3
ShakeItUp Darkravenn12: Always and Forever Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,118 Mentor	Agreeing with Yee. This thing is just terrible. QC REJECTED 2/3 __________________ (19:01) galacticos: at least im not (19:01) galacticos: 0-5 like you (19:01) galacticos: gg bro Galacticos (Random PO scrub who johned me) to user: Double01

Sep 28th, 2012, 8:42:12 PM	#4
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,633 Greece	Yeah yee you are right about Reuniclus, removed him from the pokes he can trap and kill. I am waiting for more QC input on this. Imo Snorlax is an ok poke, that has a niche, and there have been instances in the past where Snorlax was the poke that i was looking for in a slot for my team. But i won't try to convince anyone, we all know CBLax, so i am fine with him getting either rejected or accepted. __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check!

Sep 28th, 2012, 9:36:39 PM	#6
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,633 Greece	Removed the Curse set. __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check!

Sep 28th, 2012, 10:57:13 PM	#8
PK Gaming Quiet Thunder God Moderator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,526 Izanagi	R.I.P Oglemi edit: I have hence removed Snorlax's current OU analysis as well __________________

Sep 28th, 2012, 8:21:31 PM	#2
yee Signed and Sealed in Blood I would die for you Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,033	QC Rejected 1/3 The Choice Band set lacks any real selling points- it's certainly not as good as Tyranitar on a weatherless team ("sand" teams with CB Tar are generally just non weather teams that have Tyranitar to counter other weather) being unable to cut off other weathers, plus it only has normal STAB to work with and can't recklessly switch into Lati@s when its comfortably 2HKOed by Psyshock after SR and Sand. Even if you get a one on one matchup by double switching you get a low health Snorlax that will be sack fodder for the rest of the game. As a side note I'm not sure how you're beating Reuniclus in the long run with a pokemon that gets worn down easily and barely even 2HKOes. On sun teams in BW1 I would've accepted that it has a niche locking down threats like Volcarona but rolling with something as slow and easy to blast against as Snorlax is simply a terrible idea in this meta because you'll have not much more than a dead slot against standard offense. The curse set is far from a good use of a pokemon slot- it was barely able to keep up with the power creep of DPP with a usable Rest. You have a bad attempt at a wall if that's the selling point and it's not that threatening of a pokemon in BW2 even if you were to let one set up a free Curse.

Sep 28th, 2012, 10:41:19 PM	#7
Lavos Spawn Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,188 Mentor	I have used CB Snorlax extensively in BW1 and I have come to the conclusion that it is not a Pokemon worth wasting a teamslot on (and I would imagine that the addition of threats such as Keldeo in BW2 make it even worse). It is too slow, too susceptible to status, and lacks recovery, often only getting in one hit before going down. In addition, many extremely common Pokemon threaten it immensely, including Terrakion, Breloom, and Scizor. It can't even switch into Politoed, supposedly one of its best selling points, because of the likely Scald burn that will occur. Finally, base 110 Attack is underwhelming, especially when common CB users in this metagame include Terrakion (base 129), Scizor (base 130), and Dragonite (base 134), all of which outclass Snorlax as a Choice Bander. You can try to make the argument that Snorlax has a niche in the metagame as a specially bulky tank, but I'm just not buying it. In this fast-paced, extremely offensive metagame, there's no room for a Snorlax to function anymore. The days of GSC and ADV are long behind us. Snorlax has been fading fast ever since DP, and the plethora of new threats that BW brought to the table aren't helping its case any. QC Rejected 3/3 Don't take this personally, alexwolf. You're a good guy and you should keep writing analyses. Now just isn't the time or place for Snorlax.