The Best Pokemon in UU

[SJCrew]

Victini requires a lot of support and prediction to use to its full potential. I wouldn't consider it a top tier mon when the clear leaders in both usage and effectiveness don't have this handicap. In terms of effectiveness and relevance, I'd say he's ~#15. One cannot deny that Victini was the one who put offensive Fire types on the map.

[EonADS]

Originally Posted by Fat SJCrew

Victini requires a lot of support and prediction to use to its full potential. I wouldn't consider it a top tier mon when the clear leaders in both usage and effectiveness don't have this handicap. In terms of effectiveness and relevance, I'd say he's ~#15. One cannot deny that Victini was the one who put offensive Fire types on the map.

True enough. I've generally had the most success with Victini because I depend on my prediction skills more than anything else, but I can see your point about the support. Victini is almost UU's incarnation of "unstoppable" with the proper support, and it doesn't even require setup, but the support it requires is definitely extensive and prohibitive. Too many of its checks and counters are exceedingly common, I suppose.

[RT.]

Heracross isn’t as one-dimensional as people seem to think. Its versatility is unmatched even by Kingdra who, although has the ability to hit from both sides of the spectrum, lacks immediate power and the ability to get around all of its counters as easily as Heracross can. Its stats, typing, and movepool allow it to fill many roles on a team, be it sweeper, revenge-killer, stallbreaker, or status absorber. Obviously its Choice Scarf set is the most popular for a reason –it’s probably the most effective revenge killer and late-game sweeper in the tier at the moment. However, its other sets are just as effective, particularly the Swords Dance sweeper. It’s easy to slap Cofagrigus, Sableye, or Gligar on your team and think you’re safe against Heracross, until you realize that SD Hera takes advantage of all those Pokemon instead of being hard-countered by them. So yeah, in terms of all-around effectiveness, I’d say Heracross takes the cake. Heracross usually doesn’t let me down regardless of what set I’m using.

[BlankZero]

Hera is so good, I'm actually going to try him out on my OU team after I find a place for him on my UU team. He's a freaking monster unless paired against a specific counter (looking at you Ring Target Cof).

[Thatguyhavoc]

Originally Posted by Fat EonADS

If I can throw another one out there?


Victini. It's an absolute powerhouse, and STAB V-Create is ridiculously powerful.

stop right there, I raise you one....



Disregarding the above,

My contribution would either be Nidoqueen, who sets up rocks then steamrolls your team, basically she does whatever the hell she wants and very little stands in her way. She's the honey badger of pokemon imho.

Lanturn is another strong contender due to it's gargantuan HP, good type coverage and complete stupidity in the form of Volt Absorb which makes other water types iJelly. On top of it's type coverage, it also has excellent potential to inflict statuses, burn freeze and paralysis.

Heracross is strong, no doubt, i just feel it has too many fanboys.

I also personally like anything that uses sheer force, derp.

[PK Gaming]

While a lot of Pokemon suggested in this thread are great, there can only be "one" best Pokemon in the tier. One king.

That King is Heracross. Heracross is really, really good. Things like Kingdra, Zapdos, Raikou are really powerful / hard to counter, but Heracross alone is capable of winning games on it's own. We've all accepted the fact that if Moxie Heracross has its checks weakened, it will sweep right through your opponent, but did you forget that Swords Dance Heracross is insanely difficult to "counter" too? Guts prevents it from eating status, so its one of the few physical attackers that doesn't give a damn about Sableye. I'd classify (Moxie) Heracross under "one of the 2 Pokemon that can completely win games on their own" (the other being Sharpedo) and it also doubles as a fantastic revenge killer. Heracross is the reason why people consider using Gligar in the first place.

My second choice would be Kingdra.

[Cesterp]

Originally Posted by Fat Thatguyhavoc

Postbit with Houndoom, Nidoqueen, Lanturn, and saying no to Heracross.

I don't want to keep forcing this, but the concept of #1 is a bit tricky. Houndoom is good when your team supports it to the point of eliminating walls and letting Houndoom take over with Sucker Punch sweeps. It's pretty much worthless as soon as momentum starts going in your opponent's direction. Nidoqueen is good when it's there to counter fighting types. It unfortunately loses to many other things, like Flygon, Kingdra, and *gasp* Nidoking. Lanturn isn't even UU. It loses to Heracross packing EQ, Roserade (that's the top 2 things in the tier), Bronzong, Flygon, Nidoking, Swampert, and Shaymin. Losing consistently to four things in the top 10 in usage does not define the best thing in the tier.

The idea is that it's #1, not some niche mon that stops a couple of threats and so it's sort of good.

[kokoloko*]

I think it's about that time I make a stronger case for Crobat--my personal pick for best Pokemon in the tier.

While it's true that Crobat lacks the sheer devastating power of Heracross and Darmanitan or the versatility of Kingdra, there's one thing that is undeniable: Crobat is the absolute best at what it does.

There's no other Pokemon in the tier that can switch into such a huge amount of Pokemon in the tier (the sheer quantity of dangerous Pokemon it checks is key here) with so little trouble, force them out due to still posing an offensive threat, keep momentum on your side, and be an amazing stallbreaker all at once. Let's take a look at all the dangerous offensive Pokemon in the tier that Crobat deals with extremely well:

1. Heracross
2. Roserade
3. Shaymin
4. Yanmega
5. Mienshao
6. Scrafty
7. Machamp

and that's only the offensive ones. Being a stallbreaker, Crobat beats pretty much every single wall and hybrid Pokemon in the tier 1 on 1.

8. Gligar
9. Hitmontop
10. Swampert
11. Suicune
12. Togekiss
13. Milotic
14. Dusclops (lol)
15. Claydol (lol)
16. Blastoise
17. Umbreon

and then there's the Pokemon it checks, but has to be more careful about switching into (so basically those who are too frail to take hits and are slower than Crobat):

18. Flygon
19. Nidoking
20. Porygon-Z
21. Chandelure
22. Darmanitan
23. Ambipom!!
24. Azelf
25. Zoroark
26. Houndoom

Not many Pokemon can claim to check or counter literally half the fucking tier by themselves, and those that do most definitely can't do so while being an offensive threat to the opponent, keeping momentum on your side, and nearly shutting down stall entirely. Like I said, Crobat is undeniably the best at what it does. Now the question becomes: is all this really better that the sheer destructive abilities of behemoths such as Kingdra, Heracross, and Darmanitan? I think so, but this is a discussion for a reason.

One last thing, remember that we're looking for the best overall Pokemon in the tier here, not just the greatest offensive threat--people usually have trouble differentiating the two.

That is all.

[Thatguyhavoc]

Originally Posted by Fat Cesterp

I don't want to keep forcing this, but the concept of #1 is a bit tricky. Houndoom is good when your team supports it to the point of eliminating walls and letting Houndoom take over with Sucker Punch sweeps. It's pretty much worthless as soon as momentum starts going in your opponent's direction.

I actually was not suggesting Houndoom as best in UU, i was merely throwing houndoom out there to say it stops Victini in it's tracks having Immunities to both of Victini's type STABS.

And yeah these discussions are stupid. There really is no #1, the only way there would be a number 1 is if it counters the ENTIRE (every. Fucking. Poke.) tier, and it has no counters itself. Since this is impossible, I hereby say there is no best pokemon. (bar lucky Arceus matchups)

[spuds4ever]

I agree with koko to be honest. Honestly, I've loved crobat and it's been solid ever since UU started, but with the fighters' introduction, I've been struggling to make a team without this guy on it. He just slots onto so many teams and offers so much to it.

I think the only thing that could challenge crobat's position for me at least is slowbro who walls about as much as crobat checks but obviously isn't as great a momentum setter while still being really tough to switch in to thanks to that awesome move-pool and tasty 100 base special attack.

[ZandgaiaX]

agreeing with Koko here, his points are incredibly valid. And most of all, in the end we are looking for the best SOLO UU'er. Heracross and Kingdra need quite some help and unlike Crobat aren't always a valiable option. Of course, the 'best' pokémon still has lots of variations because of the opposing team, your own and several other factors (SR, Counters, Defensive Combo's)

[TPO3]

and that's only the offensive ones. Being a stallbreaker, Crobat beats pretty much every single wall and hybrid Pokemon in the tier 1 on 1.

8. Gligar
9. Hitmontop
10. Swampert
11. Suicune
12. Togekiss
13. Milotic
14. Dusclops (lol)
15. Claydol (lol)
16. Blastoise
17. Umbreon

Some of these are rather sketchy pokemon you claim crobat can "Counter". I fail to understand how Crobat reliably counters Blastoise, Swampert, Suicune, Milotic, and Togekiss. I understand that it caun taunt the bulky waters to prevent them from using Roar, Rest, or Calm Mind. However, they're just going to mindlessly spam Scald until your Crobat gets burned, at which point they're going to beat it one on one because Brave Bird won't be able to touch them. Swampert, Suicune, and Milotic commonly carry Ice-type coverage moves, and Swampert can just predict a Roost and nail Crobat with Earthquake. I also wouldn't really feel safe switching Crobat into Togekiss, knowing it could either Body Slam, Thunder Wave, or Nasty Plot on the switch.

If you want to claim that Crobat can taunt them, and U-turn to keep momentum on your side, that's different. Crobat can definitely do that well, however you claim that Crobat consistently beats all of those mons 1 on 1. Can you possibly elaborate a bit on how it takes out those bulky water-types, in addition to safely beating Togekiss?

I would like to say though that I think you are completely right when it comes to the offensive side though. Crobat provides a much-neded resistance to fighting-types, which are extremely common in UU, and Crobat counters and Checks some of the most common offensive presences in UU. If tier predictions turn out as we predicted by the UU mini-tourney, it's only going to get better as it will counter Virizion and check Tornadus-i. There's not many pokemon on the tier that can come in on the fighting-types multiple times in a match while still providing an immediate offensive presence like Crobat.

[celever]

What's going on? No support, for Gligar!? Gligar is by far the most resilient to the most over-used pokemon in under-used, Heracross. I don't have an up to date set for Gligar right now, using him competitively in only gen 4, but I will argue his case anyway. Being weak to only 2 types, water and ice, one of which is rarely seen competitively as a whole, and the other far less frequently than its resistances (see if you can guess which is which :D) means that it can be used defensively pretty well, though I think sweeping suits him better. He has 3 resistances, and even the same amount of immunities than weakness'! With ground types being common in competitive battling, as well as the oh so common earthquake, and Gligar being the best flying type in UU, period, it means that Gligar is always a sure-fire combat to ground types. Gligar's second immunity, electricity, is also fairly common in competitive battling. Though electricity isn't as common in UU, it is a good combat against any Raikous that like STAB, and though is nowhere near as helpful as Gligar's ground immunity, it's still handy to have around. His resistances are: Fighting, poison and bug, of which, fighting is the most common. In fact, fighting is the most common in type in UU isn't it? Not much really needs to be said on these resistances, since Gligar has a nice supply of flying type moves to use against some foolish competition or un-balanced teams in UU with lots of fighting types. Poison and bug types aren't very common in UU, with the exception of Crobat, which Gligar can deal with quite easily with a stone edge. Gligar has an excellent move-pool, from the afore-mentioned stone edge to acrobatics without an item, meaning that Gligar can be whatever you want it to be, defensive, sweeper, 50/50, trapper (since it has stealth rock, sandstorm and swagger), some kind of supporter with the three weather conditions rain dance and/or sunny day and /or sandstorm and finally a good baton passer, with hone claws, double team, rock polish and swords dance!

[RabidChipmunk]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

What's going on? No support, for Gligar!? Gligar is by far the most resilient to the most over-used pokemon in under-used, Heracross. I don't have an up to date set for Gligar right now, using him competitively in only gen 4, but I will argue his case anyway. Being weak to only 2 types, water and ice, one of which is rarely seen competitively as a whole, and the other far less frequently than its resistances (see if you can guess which is which :D)

Cut out the bottom half of your post since I'm not replying to that. Firstly, I don't think being able to stop Heracross (i.e. still the best Pokemon in UU) is enough to classify it as the best instead. Further more, since when is either Ice or Water rarely seen competitively? UU is full of Water types, each of which I guarantee you is packing scald, and while Ice-type Pokemon are relatively rare, all sorts of Pokemon love carrying Ice-type moves for coverage. Sure, they don't get STAB, but a 4x super-effective move against something as Specially frail as Gligar, and suddenly you don't have to care anymore. So Gligar has his merits, but he's by no means "the best."

[kokoloko*]

Originally Posted by Fat TPO3

Some of these are rather sketchy pokemon you claim crobat can "Counter". I fail to understand how Crobat reliably counters Blastoise, Swampert, Suicune, Milotic, and Togekiss. I understand that it caun taunt the bulky waters to prevent them from using Roar, Rest, or Calm Mind. However, they're just going to mindlessly spam Scald until your Crobat gets burned, at which point they're going to beat it one on one because Brave Bird won't be able to touch them. Swampert, Suicune, and Milotic commonly carry Ice-type coverage moves, and Swampert can just predict a Roost and nail Crobat with Earthquake. I also wouldn't really feel safe switching Crobat into Togekiss, knowing it could either Body Slam, Thunder Wave, or Nasty Plot on the switch.

If you want to claim that Crobat can taunt them, and U-turn to keep momentum on your side, that's different. Crobat can definitely do that well, however you claim that Crobat consistently beats all of those mons 1 on 1. Can you possibly elaborate a bit on how it takes out those bulky water-types, in addition to safely beating Togekiss?

If you read my post carefully you'd notice I said check or counter, not just the latter. If you look at Crobat's analysis, you'd notice Crobat can very wasily run Toxic over U-turn to break stall better--which is how you'd beat all the bulky waters 1 on 1 (although I'm pretty sure you'd still be able to Brave Bird them down eventually. You'd obviously need to get Crobat in without putting it in danger... which I why I said it wins against all of them 1 on 1.

To clarify, when someone says Pokemon X beats Pokemon Y 1 on 1; they're assuming they both hit the field in under the same battle conditions--as in neither one is at a notable disadvantage.

[SJCrew]

Darmanitan is definitely not in the running for the best, lol.

[DTC]

Agreeing with the Crobat nomination. Crobat is one of the most reliable Pokemon in UU: it's amazing at doing its job, it can recover health easily, it's really good at maintaining and gaining momentum, and it threatens most common teams. 130 base Speed is amazing and really helps Crobat in checking things; it's faster than everything that is unboosted without many Speed EVs and can pummel them with its powerful attacks. Wait, did I just say powerful? That's right: Crobat is also very threatening offensively. Flying-type STAB is amazing in any tier, and there aren't that many resistances in UU either besides Zapdos / Raikou / Rhyperior. Crobat can easily do 30% damage to even Pokemon that resist it.

There have been very few teams I've made that wouldn't greatly benefit from Crobat being on it. It's that good.

@celever: Gligar is pretty fucking cool, and it reminds me of Crobat. It's a great check to so many Pokemon in the tier, but unfortunately it lacks two things that makes Crobat so amazing: extremely high natural Speed and formidable offensive prowess. Also, that 4x Ice-type weakness is really annoying because many Pokemon carry Ice-type attacks for coverage without even taking Gligar into consideration. And then there are Pokemon that Gligar is "supposed" to counter but can't because they use Hidden Power Ice coverage to easily remove it from the match.

[kokoloko*]

Why is there no posts about Zapdos and Sableye in this thread idgi.

Anyway, so far, these are the Pokemon that will be included in the poll:

crobat / heracross / kingdra / raikou / flygon / darmanitan / snorlax

I'll include 1 - 3 more when I put up the poll tomorrow, depending on what people post from here. HINT: ZAPDOS IS REALLY FUCKING GOOD :)

[Gary2346]

Originally Posted by Fat WhiteQueen

Froslass @ Focus Sash
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond
- Icy Wind
- Shadow Ball

I'm sorry, but Taunt is a retarded move. It does nothing but plays mind game. Just set one layer of Spikes, then set another one. And then another one if the opposing Pokemon uses Stealth Rock. Down to 1HP? No problemo. Switch, out and switch back in later to Destiny Bond something (what team doesn't have a rapid spinner, nowadays?). Froslass is fast, can easily sets up Spikes, can kill and slow down stuff with icy wind. It's easily the best pokemon in the entire tier. If you disagree with me, go blow me a kiss.

I'm sorry to say this, but you sound extremely ignorant, and your basing half of your candidates solely on opinion, and Jynx, although dangerous, is NOT #1 in UU, not even in RU. Her typing is terrible, and she has an insane weakness to physical attacks. Froslass on the other hand, although good, is not #1 viable either. It's pretty much mostly used as a spike suicide lead and a spin blocker, although Cofagrigus is a much better choice. In my opinion, Accelgor is better at this anyway. Also, something that really pissed me off is what you said about Taunt. Taunt is probably one of the greatest support moves out there, and it completely ruins walls, sweepers and supporters such as Stealth Rock/Spike leads, Bronzong, Amoonguss, Scrafty, Cresselia, and so much more. It can also ruin Trick Room and weather teams. Now do you still think it's retarded?

Anyway, contributing to the actual thread, I can't honestly think of any new candidates at the top of my head ATM, here's my current top 5 out of all these posts:

1. Heracross
2. Kingdra
3. Roserade
4. Mienshao
5. Scrafty

Heracross is just plain insane. Swift Swim Kingdra destroys anything and has only one weakness. Roserade is one of the only good Toxic Spikers in UU, and has good offensive capabilities. Mienshao can be devastating to weakened mons with access to Fake Out and nice attack. Scrafty if given the time to set up a DD or Bulk Up, it can be an incredible pain to take out, unless you have a Heracross of course.

[celever]

Originally Posted by Fat kokoloko

Why is there no posts about Zapdos and Sableye in this thread idgi.

Anyway, so far, these are the Pokemon that will be included in the poll:

crobat / heracross / kingdra / raikou / flygon / darmanitan / snorlax

I'll include 1 - 3 more when I put up the poll tomorrow, depending on what people post from here. HINT: ZAPDOS IS REALLY FUCKING GOOD :)

At least put gligar in the poll! He'll get some votes, unlike darmanitan!

[Joeyboy]

I think Zapdos should be on the poll.

Hint Taken!!

[Silvershadow234]

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Zapdos is one of the best special attackers in the tier, and with good reason. Zapdos has excellent coverage, above average bulk, and an excellent defensive typing, allowing him to make a makeshift Heracross check, and is one of the only Honchkrow counters in the tier. Thanks to his nice typing, Zapdos can run a multitude of sets, from the SubRoost set, which is excellent at beating out pokes that rely on Stone Edge for coverage(cough Heracross cough), and even a physically defensive set which makes a wonderful counter to the new fighting types. Furthermore, Zapdos is hands-down one of the best Tornadus counters, thanks to a resistance to both Hurricane and Superpower and Grass Knot, which are his main STAB and coverage moves. 100 speed is also really good, allowing it to outpace the likes of Arcanine and Roserade.

Unfortunately, Zapdos' typing is a double edged sword, as he take 25%from SR. He is also easily countered by special walls like Snorlax and Porygon2. Bulky tanks like Swampert and Rhyperior can also take a hit from Zapdos, either thanks to Solid Rock or neutrality to all of Zapdos's moves and an immunity to it's STAB. Watch out for HP Grass though, as that completely ruins both of them. Even then, scarfers like Darmanitan can revenge Zapdos with ease thanks to their powerful STAB attacks. Apart from these though, not much can switch in on Zapdos due to it's great power and versitality.

[coolbiz]

Originally Posted by Fat SJCrew

Pokemon that flat out win games with the least amount of support?


"If you don't have Snorlax or Swampert, I win."



"If you don't have Gligar or bulky Ghost, I win."

Kingdra is a good contender for third place, but no one gives a shit about third place. #1 and #2 start here.

This sums up my initial thought when coming into this thread. Or zapdos in place of Raikou, either or would work.

[kokoloko*]

The final poll will have 8 options and as of now it looks like this:

Crobat
Flygon
Heracross
Kingdra
Mew
Raikou
Snorlax
Zapdos

No one's talked about Mew because it's only been UU for 5 days, but from past experience I'm sure we can all agree it needs to be there. I'm iffy about these options since I feel biased, but at the same time I had to ignore many of the posts in this thread because well... they were dumb.

Anyway, I'll be posting the poll in about 8 hours, so if you want anything changed speak now or forever hold your peace--and you better have damn good reasoning.

[JacobNinja]

Meloetta @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Relic Song
- Shadow Claw
- Quick Attack
Physical Meloetta can come in on many common stallers, such as Bronzong, and set up with relic song, putting it to sleep 20% of the team, not to mention the stab 75 base power move coming off 128spa. Then it can tear through teams with the perfect two move neutral coverage of shadow claw and stab close combat, along with stab quick attack for a priority. It bears mentioning that Meloetta has some of the best physical attacking stats in UU, with 128 atk and speed, outspeeding anything unscarfed besides crobat, and packing quite the punch with it's physical attacks.


Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Naive Nature
- Transform
-
-
-
Ditto is, to put it simply, the best revenge killer in any tier of all time ever. It can come in on any pokemon that doesn't resist itself (flygon, heracross, kingdra, ghosts, etc.) Unless it is facing a scarfer it will always outspeed, and even if it does have to take out a scarf there is a 50% chance of an outspeed, due to the speed tie. Since it does not rely on its on stats it can customize its IV's to get the right hidden power, such as ice for lilligant or ground for raiku.


In response to the above posters, Ditto beats any raiku not running hpground, and if that raiku had already calm minded, can use the boosts to tear apart the opposing team. Ditto can also easily beat any standard scarfed heracross that isn't locked into stone edge, and even if it is, there is still the 50% chance due to speed tie.