Teambuilding 101 (Round 1: MMF, FLCL, Zebraiken)

[MMF]

Alright I am closing the voting and the winning playstyle is......OFFENSE! So our builders will now have 3 days to build an offensive team. They will be keeping us updated on their progress and may even have a live teambuilding session on IRC. If they do they will post here with the channel and possibly the time.

If you have any questions for our builders in terms of what are good picks for an offensive team or really just anything in general make a post and they will get back to you! Good luck to our builders!

[Agent Dell]

Offense, since it's the main play style that defines the powerhouses that many common threats pose.

EDIT: Sorry for the late post.

[Ewil]

Actually i like to know the personal definition of offense (and the differences with an Hyper Offense, since many new players can be confused about those two kinds of teams i think) of every team builder and at least three favourite and adequate good picks.

Just something to ask while the builders are working :D

[MMF]

Well for me, offense usually consists of 5 offensive mons and usually one bulkier mon that I usually call a pivot such as Regirock, Piloswine, Specs Amoonguss, etc. The other mons consist of stuff like Zangoose, Special Samurott, basically really good offensive mons that break down each others counters so that one can sweep end game.

Hyper Offense on the other hand for me usually means Screens Offense or 6 Sweepers. So like Dual Screen Serperior and Ampharos and then things like Swords Dance Samurott, Dragon Dance Fraxure. Basically just relentless pressure and not letting your opponent get a chance to react.

Thats just my take on it at least and its how I describe it. As far as good picks go you can't go wrong with Rain Dance Ludicolo, Zangoose, Special Samurott. Those are all really good choices for offensive teams. Hope that helped!

[FLCL]

I made my post in a RMT-esque format since I felt that would be the best way to explain things. In my opinion this team is very easy to use because every member has great bulk. This makes misplays a bit less costly, which is extremely helpful for newer players. Although the team looks slow, there is a massive amount of priority, which makes dealing with Cinccino and friends a lot easier.

The Musharna, Gurdurr, Skuntank core is nothing new, and is still extremely effective. The rest of the team members were added to address the weaknesses of the core, namely the lack of resistances ability to break through powerful walls. The duo of Ludicolo and Carracosta perform the latter wonderfully, using brute force to smash through the likes of Amoonguss, Alomomola, and Lickilicky.

Feel free to make any changes that will help yourself be more successful with this team. I would suggest putting a bit of Speed on Musharna and Piloswine to outpace other Pokemon that might creep a little. Carracosta's item and nature, as well as Gurdurr and Skuntank's last moveslots are also up to debate. Also, don't hesitate to ask how questions if you have them; this team isn't perfect!

enjoy!

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Piloswine @ Eviolite
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Piloswine's role is to set up Stealth Rocks for the team and check annoying Volt Switchers such as Zebstrika and the two Rotom Formes. Its excellent bulk—which allows it to survive even super effective attacks on the physical side—guarantees that it gets hazards up in every match if played correctly. Offensively, Piloswine is no slouch either. With maximum investment, it can put the hurt on the many Pokemon in the tier that are weak to its STAB attacks, which grant excellent coverage.


Gurdurr @ Eviolite
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch

Meet one of the premier bulky attackers in the tier, Gurdurr. It boasts massive bulk and a great attack stat, which can be pumped up to extremely dangerous levels thanks to Bulk Up and Guts. It has the ability to recover HP with Drain Punch, which helps it immensely when it's matched up against Pokemon such as Samurott and Emboar. There are very few physical attackers, or even physical walls, that can come on top against this beast. Outside of sweeping, Gurdurr is also an excellent counter to the various Dark-types that plague Musharna. It can break down bulky Rock and Steel types that wall Skuntank, which greatly increases its utility and usefulness in a match.


Skuntank @ Leftovers
Trait: Aftermath
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab
- Taunt

As strong as Gurdurr may be, it is stopped cold by most Psychic-types in the tier. Skuntank's role is to eliminate those Pokemon by virtue of its typing and move-pool. It is immune to Psychic and takes very little from their coverage move of choice, Signal Beam. With Pursuit, Musharna and friends won't be escaping without having a huge chunk of their health ripped out of them. However, Skuntank's usefulness doesn't stop here; it acts as the sole Grass-type resister of this team and can switch into many of them with relative ease. Taunt can preventing hazards from going up and is especially useful against Spikers such as Garbodor or Cacturne, since they usually lack a way to damage Skuntank significantly.


Musharna @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
- Psychic
- Moonlight

Musharna makes its way onto the team as one of the most durable Pokemon in the tier. After Dark-types such as Absol, Skuntank, and Cacturne have been removed, it will be able to plow through the opponent with ease, whether they are using a defensive or offensive team. Musharna's physical bulk allows it to absorb Fighting-type attacks from the likes of Sawk and Gurdurr, which is really important in this metagame. Heal Bell is a great move for this team since there's no designated status absorber.


Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance

Ludicolo helps check powerful Water-types such as Gorebyss, Samurott, and Simipour that have the potential to break through the previous Pokemon. It acts as a great standalone sweeper with great coverage and power, being able to sweep in the blink of an eye with Rain Dance. Early in the game, Ludicolo can constantly put pressure on the foe, preventing opposing Armaldo, Piloswine, Torterra, Carracosta, and Lairon from setting up hazards.


Carracosta @ Life Orb
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Shell Smash
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall

Carracosta was added last and fills many of the roles that the rest of the team lacked. It prevents Braviary and Swellow from demolishing everything with Brave Bird. It resists Fire-type attacks, which makes Emboar think twice about spamming Flare Blitz. After a Shell Smash, Carracosta is extremely hard to stop; even Amoonguss has a good chance of being OHKOed after Stealth Rocks damage. This allows it to punch holes in the opponent's team, making way for other Pokemon to clean up.

[Amarillo]

One thing. I would encourage new users to ask questions: Why this Pokemon instead of that? Why these moves? How do I handle this threat? and so on. I don't think the true point of this is to just donate you guys a team you can copy and use on the ladder, right?

[MMF]

Yes Amarillo. The whole point of this is so new players can ask questions and look through how we made the teams so they can get a better grasp on the metagame as a whole. So please feel free to ask questions, we are here to help.

I"ll be posting my team tomorrow unfortunately but I have IRL things that need to get done!

[zwab]

Originally Posted by Fat MMF

Well for me, offense usually consists of 5 offensive mons and usually one bulkier mon that I usually call a pivot such as Regirock, Piloswine, Specs Amoonguss, etc. The other mons consist of stuff like Zangoose, Special Samurott, basically really good offensive mons that break down each others counters so that one can sweep end game.

Hyper Offense on the other hand for me usually means Screens Offense or 6 Sweepers. So like Dual Screen Serperior and Ampharos and then things like Swords Dance Samurott, Dragon Dance Fraxure. Basically just relentless pressure and not letting your opponent get a chance to react.

Thats just my take on it at least and its how I describe it. As far as good picks go you can't go wrong with Rain Dance Ludicolo, Zangoose, Special Samurott. Those are all really good choices for offensive teams. Hope that helped!

I actually made a team recently intending for it to be an offensive team that had a beedrill on it, and it turned out to be hyper offensive, and is the best of the 4 or 5 teams I've made since coming back to pokémon a few days ago. So far it's won most of it's battles I'd say and I'm really enjoying it (I don't know exact statistics since I've been doing all this experimenting to improve my team-building skills on my PS account)

For those who care

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For anyone who cares the team consists of SD beedrill, who can setup a free SD from choice-locked Sawk (he takes 30 something percent from a CC), Shell Smash Carracosta (Beedrill 4x resists his 4x grass weakness, as well as 4x resisting his 2x fighting weakness), Rain Dance Damp Rock Seismitoad, jolly scarfed braviary which hits everything hard and out-speeds adamant scarf sawk, cinccino because it's such a useful little guy who ruins golem leads, and has the power to out-speed most things as well as force switches for him to exploit with u-turn, and finally a misdreavus because, hey misdreavus is bulky, but she rarely comes out to play.

[Annoyer]

Woah. This is a pretty cool thread for new players like me. I'm not that great at teambuilding and it seems like no one else is asking questions but I have a couple of my own. I'm also pretty new to NU so sorry if these questions are obvious.

1. Can you explain the EV spread on Skuntank? I'm wondering about what that amount of Speed will help Skuntank outspeed certain threats.
2. Similar to the question about Skuntank, what does the Timid nature on Ludicolo help it outspeed? Does it hit any certain Speed benchmarks (in or out of Rain Dance)?
3. If I use this team, how do I handle Braviary since it seems that Brave Bird can do a lot of damage to your team while Superpower can dent Carracosta?
4. As an extremely new user to teambuilding, can you explain the choiced of four physical Pokemon and two Special Attackers? I always thought that three physical attackers and three special attackers are the best way to go to "balance" the offenses. Is there any specific reason to be more offensively inclined?
5. In your description about Piloswine, you state that Piloswine sets down Rocks while checking Volt Switchers. Since Golem can also perform these roles, can you expand your reason of choosing Piloswine?
6. Because I'm such a noob, how does your team deal with Sun teams specifically? It seems that strong hitting Grass and Fire-type attacks can deal a lot of damage to this team.

Thanks in advance. I'm such a new user that I'm new to this aspect of Pokemon. This has helped me out a lot and I'm sure by answering these questions, you will help me improve my teambuilding skills even more. Other people should also ask more questions about this team since I'm sure I'm not the only one new to this "teambuilding".









lol

[Audiosurfer]

One question I'd like to ask is what your checklist is for a team. Basically, what are some things you feel are necessary to have for a team to be successful in NU? I apologize in advance if the questions had to be specific to the team posted but it was something I was curious about.

[FLCL]

noobnoyer you already know the answers to these questions

Originally Posted by Fat Annoyer

Can you explain the EV spread on Skuntank? I'm wondering about what that amount of Speed will help Skuntank outspeed certain threats.

Skuntank's spread is used to outpace Ludicolo and Samurott, which can both be really big threats to the team if they set up. It won't be countering them anytime soon, but it will be able to beat them one-on-one, thanks to the extra speed. Skuntank mainly relies on resistances and immunities to perform defensive roles, so the loss in bulk does not matter much.

Originally Posted by Fat Annoyer

Similar to the question about Skuntank, what does the Timid nature on Ludicolo help it outspeed? Does it hit any certain Speed benchmarks (in or out of Rain Dance)?

Ludicolo's Speed allows it to outrun Jolly Emboar and Adamant Braviary, both of which are hit extremely hard by Ludicolo, but also have the potential to OHKO back. It also needs to keep up with Jolly Samurott, which is standard. As an added bonus, Ludicolo can now outpace every Choice Scarf user in the tier when Rain is up, which increases its sweeping capabilities. A Modest nature doesn't really guarantee any OHKO as far as I know.

Originally Posted by Fat Annoyer

If I use this team, how do I handle Braviary since it seems that Brave Bird can do a lot of damage to your team while Superpower can dent Carracosta?

Braviary will be able to hurt this team severely if it predicts correctly, but it can only use one move at a time. Even if it nails Carracosta, the opponent will be put in a bad position because Gurdurr or Musharna can now set up for free. Life Orb variants are extremely uncommon. As I previously mentioned, max Speed allows Ludicolo to outrun all non-Scarf variants of Braviary and smack it hard with Ice Beam. Braviary has no true "counters" in NU; smart play is required for any team that faces it.

Originally Posted by Fat Annoyer

As an extremely new user to teambuilding, can you explain the choiced of four physical Pokemon and two Special Attackers? I always thought that three physical attackers and three special attackers are the best way to go to "balance" the offenses. Is there any specific reason to be more offensively inclined?

In my opinion Ludicolo and Musharna are more than enough to break through the physical walls that plague my other attackers. They either have trouble taking a powerful Hydro Pump from Ludicolo or are set up on by Musharna. On top of that, Carracosta has the ability to smash through many physical walls through sheer power, thanks to an Adamant nature and Life Orb. The amount of physical or special attackers you have doesn't matter; you can even have a whole team of Choice Band users and they will still be able to break through every defensive Pokemon in the tier if played correctly.

Originally Posted by Fat Annoyer

In your description about Piloswine, you state that Piloswine sets down Rocks while checking Volt Switchers. Since Golem can also perform these roles, can you expand your reason of choosing Piloswine?

Most Electric-types carry Hidden Power Ice as a coverage move, which Piloswine is resistant to. It also has much more bulk than Golem, which is helpful when tanking Fighting or Grass type attacks. Golem will add an extra Ground weakness, which is undesirable for this team since Ludicolo is the only Pokemon that resists the type.

Originally Posted by Fat Annoyer

Because I'm such a noob, how does your team deal with Sun teams specifically? It seems that strong hitting Grass and Fire-type attacks can deal a lot of damage to this team.

Sun can be dealt with the massive amount of priority I have on the team. Grass-types can be hit by Ice Shard or Mach Punch (for some), while Fire-types take a chunk from Aqua Jet, even when it's weakened by the sun. Sucker Punch can smack both types pretty hard. Additionally, a well timed Rain Dance from Ludicolo can often mean a counter-sweep for the team.

[Annoyer]

Thanks! I never would have figured out those answers by myself. I'm looking forward to Zebraiken and MMF's teams since I'm sure I'll have tons of questions for them. :)

I also think you should answer Audiosurfer's question since I would also like to know a checklist for a team of this proportion!

[FLCL]

Originally Posted by Fat Audiosurfer

One question I'd like to ask is what your checklist is for a team. Basically, what are some things you feel are necessary to have for a team to be successful in NU? I apologize in advance if the questions had to be specific to the team posted but it was something I was curious about.

Roles I generally try to include for offensive teams are:

• A Normal and Flying type resister (eg. most Rock or Steel types)
• A Scarfed Pokemon fast enough to outpace Gorebyss after a Shell Smash (eg. Rotom-S or Zebstrika) or use Ludicolo
• A priority user with decent power (eg. Samurott or Kangaskhan)
• A one bulky pivot (eg. Amoonguss or Regirock)
• An "Alomoonguss killer" (eg. Gardevior or Subtitute Bulk Up Braviary)
• A Volt Switcher (eg. Eelektross)
• A late-game cleaner (eg. Cinccino or Absol)

Of course, things like type resistances and synergy also need to be considered, but I think I covered almost everything. Try not to make more than one Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock unless you have a reliable Rapid Spinner.

[Poliwhirlz]

Well, FLCL, I have some questions, specifically regarding Carracosta's role on your team. For some reason to me, it seems the odd man out on your team. As such, I would like to know why you chose it as your rock type. It, for some reason I can't explain, looks really awkward to me.

Does it help with wearing out counters with Ludicolo as a double dragon sort of thing? And do you ever feel like the decreased longevity due to its life orb hinder its ability to check what it needs to? Also, could CB Relicanth perform its job just as well because its naturally faster and doesn't need set up? I know a successful shell smash can be game changing, so maybe it's outclassed.

Thanks.

[FLCL]

Originally Posted by Fat Poliwhirlz

Well, FLCL, I have some questions, specifically regarding Carracosta's role on your team. For some reason to me, it seems the odd man out on your team. As such, I would like to know why you chose it as your rock type. It, for some reason I can't explain, looks really awkward to me.

Does it help with wearing out counters with Ludicolo as a double dragon sort of thing? And do you ever feel like the decreased longevity due to its life orb hinder its ability to check what it needs to? Also, could CB Relicanth perform its job just as well because its naturally faster and doesn't need set up? I know a successful shell smash can be game changing, so maybe it's outclassed.

Thanks.

To be honest, Carracosta was simply slapped on as a last-minute Flying-type resister. Any other Rock-type could have worked, but I find most of them to be dead weight outside of setting up Stealth Rock, which Piloswine already does. Shell Smash allows Carracosta to actually pull off sweeps and break walls. Relicanth could also work in that slot I guess, but it doesn't have priority or the ability to boost speed, which is something this team really appreciates. As for its longetivity, Flying-types tend to not last very long against this team due to Stealth Rocks almost always being up and the huge amount of priority. Carracosta usually only needs to come in once and check them in order to eliminate those birds as threats.

[Zebraiken*]

hi there.

i'm going to do this a little bit differently than FLCL; not that i have an issue with the way he did it, but i think my method is going to have a little bit more of my actual teambuilding process in it rather than just giving you guys the end result. hopefully it'll give you a little more into my thoughts as i shove together a team and hope that it works. =)

firstly, about my thoughts on "offense". i really am not a fan of defining playstyles because they're so hard to actually capture and explain and there's no real universal definition. i guess i'd say the difference between something like balance and offense isn't really the composition of the team, but rather how you play with it in live matches (duh, that's why they're called playstyles). for example, samurott can be an excellent choice on both offense and balance teams even with the same exact set, but it can perform different functions based on how the rest of the team works and relies on it. in that sense, i am not going to restrict the selections of my pokemon (and it's rarely ever a good idea to do so simply to fit into a team "archetype", in my opinion). to be blunt, offense is simply a playstyle where your team is made to pressure and pick on your opponent's team and push them to a breaking point, when you clean up shop and win the game. it's vital that you set a goal (win condition) when you start building a team and always build to try to maintain this condition. without having a solid win condition in mind, you will rarely ever be able to pull out a win against an equally good player who does have one.

so here's my process for building teams successfully (and it applies to various other playstyles, too). i'll be following through with this exact process as i build my team, so feel free to follow along or think about what you would do with the mons i have selected.

• select a good, reliable threat to build a team around. it doesn't have to be famously overused, it doesn't have to be monstrously strong. just pick something that you're comfortable with using and that you think can be reliable in performing its job. there's a huge difference between selecting something like sawsbuck and something like leavanny - if you're a newer team builder, don't be afraid to simply stick to the tried-and-true!
• try to identify everything about your pokemon. that sounds a bit confusing, but let me explain. if you're going to build something around swords dance samurott, how do you know what teammates are going to work best with it? you should understand what stops your central threat, so you can pick teammates that either take advantage of these common checks / counters or outright beat them so you have a chance at sweeping. at the same time, you should think about your mon's strengths, too. what can samurott come in on easily, or force out, or set up on? anything that creates a situation where samurott can come in and set up can also be a good teammate. this is the very basis of synergy, imo.
• step back and identify what threatens your initial core. whether you have 2 or 3 pokemon that help your central threat sweep, it's never ever going to be absolutely perfect. can you think of anything that beats all of these? how do you deal with them? for example, say you selected samurott and serperior for your first two pokemon. what directly impedes a sweep for both of these pokemon, or is not handled by one or the other? something like rotom-s would definitely fit that description - what can you add that can help you defeat rotom-s while also contributing to the main goal of the team (a sweep with samurott)? if you can't think of anything, don't fear. your team will never ever ever be perfect the first time you build it, so feel free to throw on something that you think might work well. who knows, maybe it'll do very well!
• test. this initial building stage will rarely ever produce a quality team. not even the best minds in pokemon will be able to sit there and think out a perfect team in one simple session. test it on the ladder, against friends, whatever! the most important part of teambuilding is this part imo, where you test and identify weaknesses, then address them by adjusting your team. many, many of my best teams started out fairly mediocre but became great simply because i worked away at improving them whenever i felt like it.

teambuilding should always be a fun process. if you find yourself being stressed out by it or you can't think of the perfect teammate, don't worry about it! just throw some stuff together and go enjoy playing with your team and testing it out. there's no harm done in trying new things that may not fit your ideal team.


i'll be building around something that's actually incredibly underused for how good it is: everyone's favorite, charizard. there are a few things that stand out immediately to me when i pick 'zard: 1) sr weak 2) easily revenge killed by various means (priority, scarfers like rotom-s, outright faster pokemon like cincy) and 3) it's got several huge enemies in the current metagame, depending on the set. there are a couple different ways we can go with the set (specs, scarf, subroost, sunny day) but i think i'm going to work with the specs set simply because it's an unseen threat in the current metagame and very very few people use it. plus it's strong.

when working with something that has enormous and common weaknesses, it's a good idea to devote at least a member of your team towards said weakness - in this case, i'm talking about zard's susceptibility to sr. especially given the fact that i'm going to build around a specs set which will be switching in and out constantly, it's incredibly important that sr is never on the field when i need zard to come out. i could do any of the following: carry taunt users and try to prevent sr from coming up; use mold breaker mons like rampardos to try to ohko the sr users through sturdy and prevent them from ever setting it up; carry a spinner. of all of these, the most reliable is definitely to carry my own spinner, despite the fact that i really dislike most of the spinners. one thing that i've always wanted to do is use a different, actually effective wartortle set. the defensive set is notoriously bad, since it consistently gets 2hkoed by golurk while it doesn't 2hko in return with scald. i really want to take offensive spinner wartortle out and give it a go, since it can spin against every sr setter as well as koing both golurk and defensive misdreavus. plus, charizard handles misdreavus incredibly well anyway, and it also helps with stuff like amoonguss who can very easily switch in and take advantage of wartortle. it's obviously not going to be perfect as they already share several weaknesses (most notably to stuff like eelektross, rotom-f, zebstrika).

outside of wartortle, what would support charizard the best? primary switchins to charizard will be things like regirock, altaria, lickilicky, audino, carracosta, golem... depending on the current situation, of course. you can obliterate any of these with the proper prediction, but you won't always be perfect in predictions, sadly, so let's think of what would help get them out of the way so we don't have to predict with charizard! my natural inclination is to go: hey, they're all weak to fighting-type attacks (barring altaria). why don't we try out something that we can double switch into and fire off powerful fighting-type attacks and pressure the opponent's team? choice band sawk seems absolutely perfect here as it decimates each and every one of these checks (it even 2hkoes altaria with sr up on our side of the field, which we will likely add eventually). plus, it benefits from wartortle's support as it can spin away hazards that would break sawk's sturdy, and wartortle can help bust through ghost-types that trouble sawk. to be honest, adding sawk is kind of a hasty decision on my part, but i really like its wallbreaking capacity and it does seem to partner very well with charizard, although there are still several weaknesses to work on (but we can fix them with other teammates!).

now, at this point, i think i'm gonna take a brief break from building because i'm lazy and i've been typing this for ages. keeping in mind the team so far (which i will put in hide tags at the end of this post), where do you think i should go with it? what should i add next? do you have any questions about what i've done so far? will the three mons i've discussed actually work out? two choice item users (zard and sawk) is a very restrictive team backbone, meaning if i were to use this effectively right now i'd have to be on top of my game as far as predictions. what can i do to lessen the reliance on predicting perfectly and make it so i can play my way out of a hole when i predict incorrectly? i already know the answers to many of these questions and i have an idea with where i want to take the team in the future, but i'm really interested in seeing what new players or oldies have to say about this team and where you think it should go from here.

i'll hopefully be finishing this up sometime tomorrow / the day after depending on the responses i get, if any. sorry for the massive tl;dr, but that's the way i write. =)

...

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charizard @ choice specs | blaze
timid nature (+spe, -atk) | 252 spa / 4 def / 252 spe
fire blast / air slash / focus blast / hidden power ice

wartortle @ eviolite | torrent
modest nature (+spa, -atk) | 198 hp / 252 spa / 60 spe (enough spe for min alomomola)
surf / ice beam / toxic / rapid spin

sawk @ choice band | sturdy
adamant nature (+atk, -spa) | 4 hp / 252 atk / 252 spe
close combat / ice punch / earthquake / stone edge

[MMF]

FUCK YEAH WARTORTLE (Mine's coming soon ladies contain your orgasms)

[Poliwhirlz]

I feel like at this point you could consider Skuntank for the team. It resists grass attacks aimed at Wartortle, is immune to psychics aimed at Sawk, and can trap bulky psychics that trouble it as well. It can also trap ghosts to make a spin easier, or taunt to prevent rocks in the first place. I feel you can't be too cautious about rocks on a charizard team, lol. It would also help with those scarfers that can trouble charizard.

Since water types are gonna want to come in on Zards spam move, fire blast, maybe a volt switcher such as eelektross would be nice to help out with that and sawk with Mola.

Edit: Too late MMF, its all over me.

[ium]

Originally Posted by Fat Zebraiken

...

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charizard @ choice specs | blaze
timid nature (+spe, -atk) | 252 spa / 4 def / 252 spe
fire blast / air slash / focus blast / hidden power ice

wartortle @ eviolite | torrent
modest nature (+spa, -atk) | 198 hp / 252 spa / 60 spe (enough spe for min alomomola)
surf / ice beam / toxic / rapid spin

sawk @ choice band | sturdy
adamant nature (+atk, -spa) | 4 hp / 252 atk / 252 spe
close combat / ice punch / earthquake / stone edge

well, my initial thought on this is that you've still yet to cover the threats that revenge kill charizard and can potentially threaten the other two members of your core so far. you mentioned things like rotom-s and cinccino.

fast normal, flying, and electric types are the ones that stand out most to me as most threatening. both charizard and wartortle can be threatened by things like rotom-s, zebstrika, or electrode. meanwhile, nothing in general wants to face a swellow, cinccino (which OHKOs wartortle with that spread and bypasses sturdy), etc. when it is brought in safely.

most, but not all, of these can be fairly handled by golem i suppose. it checks normal and flying types and prevents electric types from freely volt switching around when you know that your choice-locked (and perhaps slower) pokémon are being threatened out. while golem doesn't really handle cinccino that well, it can probably use rocky helmet and have the last two members bait out a tail slap from cinccino. finally, golem provides priority in sucker punch and a multi-hit move in rock blast. sucker punch is especially helpful since your team probably wants to abstain from running a choice scarf user unless absolutely necessary since you already have two choice item users. oh yeah, stealth rock too.

the next team member would most likely have to be a good pivot for if charizard or sawk just happens to be locked into the wrong move due to misprediction. i can't really think of anything for this right now though because i'm actually not thinking rn.


i'm actually horrible at teambuilding though so idk. n__n

[BROStime]

Originally Posted by Fat Zebraiken

-snip-

Marowak would benefit this team as it has great bulk, and have a great typing against all off those switching into Charizard. Also he has a nice ground type absorbing Thunder Waves from Regirock, also resisting its STAB Stone Edge. Also pairing Marowak with Rotom-F will give you a bird resist to an extent this core os more offensive than the Golem & Amoonguss core and fit the teams playstyle better. The SR weakness sucks but, Wartortle and Marowak makes up for it imo.


Marowak @ Thick Club
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 196 HP | 252 Atk | 60 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bonemerang
- Thunderpunch / Stone Edge
- Doubble Edge
- Stealth Rock

This set is great, it tanks all your threats to Charizard and mostly OHKO's them. The 60 Spd EVs is to outspeed 56 Spd Golem so you can OHKO it before it get rocks down on your field, also you can carry rocks off your own as with great bulk Marowak can easely lay they down without dying. Thunderpunch/Stone Edge is great coverage moves, Thunderpunch hits Alomomola and Stone Edge hits Altaria hard so its your choice. :)


Rotom-Fan @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk | 252 Spd | 4 SDef
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Air Slash
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ground]
- Trick

Rotom fits the team well as Alomomola and water types in general can be a pain to your team, Thundebolt can be used over HP Ground for better STAB as Marowak and Wartortle handles Rock/Steel types pretty well.

Also an Golem & Amoonguss core works great for this team, walling your threats by ease, Amoonguss wall Carracosta all day. Also Golem walls Swellow & Braviary to an extent'' (Braviary)'' but a bird resist is always usefull + the core still maintains offensive pressure also giving you priority and a 100% sleepmove in Spore.


Golem @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 200 HP | 252 Atk | 56 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rock Blast
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock


Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 240 HP | 252 Def | 16 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Spore
- Synthetis
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain

[KryptoKrunch]

For Zebra's team, I suggest a grass type. Amoonguss is a good choice; good bulk, sleep inducer and soaks up Toxic Spikes/immune to Toxic. Not to mention it completes the F/W/G core.

[JacobJinglepocket]

Weather because Ludicolo is ludicrous! :P

[zwab]

Originally Posted by Fat JacobJinglepocket

Weather because Ludicolo is ludicrous! :P

To be honest, it's quite easy to just run Seismitoad or Ludicolo on a team as a standalone rain setter/sweeper.

Also we've already voted on a playstyle, so the teambuilders are already building to that playstyle.

Originally Posted by Fat Zebraiken

it's vital that you set a goal (win condition) when you start building a team and always build to try to maintain this condition. without having a solid win condition in mind, you will rarely ever be able to pull out a win against an equally good player who does have one.

I 100% agree with this, even when it comes to "weather" as a style it is always best to start out with one pokémon and strategy, and build the team around it. I remember prior to B2W2 I made a team for OU, and I made the team so that I could use Aggron in OU as a Subpuncher/Headsmash/Ice Punch, given that it has a very usable base 110 attack for such high powered moves like Focus Punch and Head Smash, and in the end, the team became my first sand team to help boost Aggron's Sp.Def up to the level of his natural Defense and it actually worked quite well. :D

[KryptoKrunch]

Originally Posted by Fat zwab

I actually made a team recently intending for it to be an offensive team that had a beedrill on it, and it turned out to be hyper offensive, and is the best of the 4 or 5 teams I've made since coming back to pokémon a few days ago. So far it's won most of it's battles I'd say and I'm really enjoying it (I don't know exact statistics since I've been doing all this experimenting to improve my team-building skills on my PS account)

For those who care

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For anyone who cares the team consists of SD beedrill, who can setup a free SD from choice-locked Sawk (he takes 30 something percent from a CC), Shell Smash Carracosta (Beedrill 4x resists his 4x grass weakness, as well as 4x resisting his 2x fighting weakness), Rain Dance Damp Rock Seismitoad, jolly scarfed braviary which hits everything hard and out-speeds adamant scarf sawk, cinccino because it's such a useful little guy who ruins golem leads, and has the power to out-speed most things as well as force switches for him to exploit with u-turn, and finally a misdreavus because, hey misdreavus is bulky, but she rarely comes out to play.

Can you post sets, EV spreads and explain how the team works? I'm very interested in how Beedrill works also how this team fares etc.

[MMF]

SO PEOPLE. THE TIME HAS COME. So I'm really sorry this is as late as it is(and doesn't have commentary over it at the moment as I still(-__-) have work to do but feel free to comment on it and ask questions and I will answer them as best I can.

I'll try and get Zeb or someone to edit this with pictures to make it ore pretty but rest assured this will get done. Once again I'm very sorry ;_;

...

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Golem (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Sucker Punch


Sawk (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Reversal


Gardevoir (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
- Destiny Bond


Haunter (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Disable
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb


Samurott (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Megahorn


Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain

razzles edit: pics for you my love