GSC In-game tiers

Redew · Sep 25th, 2012, 5:48:49 PM

GSC In-game Tier List
permission from Nexus

YES I WILL GET THIS DONE MY COMPUTER WORKS NOW

(OP taken over from TrollFreak for NixHex)

Hey, OI, welcome to the GSC in-game tiers list. Anyone can post! So don't be afraid to post your thoughts, comments, etc. in the thread. Small entries only, and this goes up to Red.

I've decided that making this run kind of like a threatlist, so here are some things to follow:

You can reserve a maximum of 3 Pokemon at a time.
Only reserve something if you've played GSC in-depth before and have a good understanding of what the in-game battles are like. Don't just post here if you got the game yesterday and haven't beat Whitney.
If you disagree with what tier a Pokemon was placed in, feel free to post and gove reasons as to why it should be lower / higher. Just saying "lol Cyndaquil should be in high tier and not top noob" is flat out disrespectful and unnecessary. We can all act like adults over something like Pokemon without insulting someone's intelligence.

The following is a list of what is [Reserved] and [DONE]. If you would like to reserve something, post here, VM / PM me, whatever, just let me know so I can update the thread accordingly.

List

How to post:

HTML Code:

[B]Pokemon[/B]
Availability (when it can be obtained the earliest):
Stats (Above Average, good, bad, etc):
Movepool (Above Average, good, bad, etc):
Gyms that it fares well against:
Other info (Good type coverage throughout the game, good resistance to a threatening type, etc):

The article can be found here

Pokemon GSC In-Game Tier List

Top Tier:

Top Tier

High Tier:

High Tier

Mid Tier:

Mid

Low Tier:

Low

Bottom Tier:

Bottom

Post in the thread if you think anything should be higher / lower.

callforjudgement · Sep 25th, 2012, 6:14:05 PM

OK, since I'm one of the probably few people who's seriously tried to use Unown in GSC:

Unown
Availability: Early
Stats: Low
Movepool: Shallow
Gyms that it fairs well against: Falkner
Other info: Unown's only saving grace is the fact that you can catch one with a Hidden Power of any type, meaning that it can give some much-needed coverage early in the game; pick one with HP Ice, Electric, or Rock, and it'll help you beat out Falkner if you started with Chikorita. Its stats are too low to function meaningfully later in the game, though, even with super-effective attacks, and it cannot meaningfully be trained up because it badly needs coverage to score KOs.

Recommend this is placed into Bottom tier.

Redew · Sep 25th, 2012, 6:18:17 PM

I'd even say that it should be Bottom Tier, as you'd have next to no clue what Hidden Power you have and you'd have to go and catch too many to find one that you'd like. In addition, its base HP stat is horrendous; I wouldn't even pair it against a Magikarp.

atsync · Sep 25th, 2012, 6:19:01 PM

I think your list is missing Skarmory and Mantine.

I guess I'll just go ahead and resubmit some of the pokemon I did in the old thread that weren't transferred here. I'll reserve Igglybuff (Jigglypuff), Magby (Magmar), and Teddiursa.

EDIT: Done. I hope I didn't write too much but I can edit if required.

I ended up doing separate entries for Crystal Magby/GS Magmar and Crystal Teddiursa/GS Teddiursa. I think they are different enough in usefulness to do this, but I can merge them if necessary.

Jigglypuff for Low tier. It learns some decent moves (elemental punches, etc) and can be evolved to Wigglytuff as soon as you get Surf by heading to the Tohjo Falls and getting the Moon Stone there. It's just about good enough to go above Bottom tier. However, it has meh stats and gets off to a slow start as a Jigglypuff (especially in GS where it only starts with Sing) so Mid isn't appropriate. Low sounds good to me.

Note: I listed it as Jigglypuff rather than Igglybuff because that's what you are probably going to obtain if you plan to use it. There is absolutely no reason to use the Igglybuff from the Odd Egg (Dizzy Punch is an advantage but you can just teach Jigglypuff Headbutt).

Jigglypuff
Availability: Early. Route 46 (GS, as a Jigglypuff) or Route 34 (Crystal, either caught as a Jigglypuff or from the Odd Egg as an Igglybuff).
Stats: Below Average
Movepool: Above Average
Gyms that it fares well against: It depends on what moves you gave it. Fire Punch is good for Jasmine and Erika, Ice Punch is good for Clair, Erika and Brock, and Thunderpunch is good for Misty. It you have all 3 then you can potential contribute in almost all battles, but strength wise full sweeps will be difficult to achieve.
Other info: Like many normal types, it can achieve excellent coverage via TM moves. However, there are many better alternatives, and although Wigglytuff is an ok pokemon in its own right after it is evolved you may be better off using something else.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Magmar (GS) for High tier. Magmar is a powerful pokemon that comes fairly early and has a decent movepool. It's probably the best Fire type in GS if you don't pick Cyndaquil.

Magmar (GS)
Availability: Fairly early, about midway through Johto in Burnt Tower.
Stats: Above Average
Movepool: Average
Gyms that it fares well against: Fire Punch and Thunderpunch is good coverage for Jasmine and Pryce. It doesn't help much against Clair but it does do well against particular pokemon used by the elite 4. Koga is probably its best match-up, using Fire Punch for his bugs and Thunderpunch for Crobat. In Kanto, you have Erika and Janine as strong match-ups.
Other info: Fire STAB is fairly useful in GSC, and in GS Magmar is your best choice for a Fire type if you didn't pick Cyndaquil.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Magby (C) for Mid tier. Magby comes a bit earlier in Crystal than Magmar does in GS but it comes extremely underleveled and you have to rely on luck to hatch it from the Odd Egg (you may get something else instead). I was tempted to put it in Low but I thought that may have been a bit much.

Magby (C)
Availability: Early, hatched from the Odd Egg.
Stats: Above Average
Movepool: Average
Gyms that it fares well against: Magby is available for Whitney, unlike GS Magmar. However, it isn't useful here since it gets destroyed by Whitney's Rollout. It will also be unevolved for Morty. Otherwise, the matchups are the same. Fire Punch and Thunderpunch still provide excellent coverage against many important pokemon (Jasmine and Pryce mainly). It contributes in elite 4 battles, especially against Koga.
Other info: Magmar is still a strong pokemon but it comes unevolved and underleveled in Crystal, and you have to hope that the Odd Egg hatches into the right pokemon. This makes it a less useful choice in Crystal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Teddiursa (G) for Low tier. It comes a bit too late to be of much use, but if you are willing to train it up and teach it the right moves, it can make the rest of the game MUCH easier.

Teddiursa (G)
Availability: Later in Johto, Route 45.
Stats: Good
Movepool: Above Average
Gyms that it fares well against: It depends on what you teach it so you can mix-and-match to suit your teams needs. Ice Punch covers Clair, and Fire Punch and Thunderpunch add coverage against many of the Elite 4 pokemon. Teddiursa also has its powerful STAB moves to wreck mosts things that don't resist it, especially after evolution. Teddiursa remains useful against the Kanto gym leaders thanks to its great stats and movepool.
Other info: This is let down severely by being unavailable for most of the game. By the time you reach it, you may not even need its power because your team should be strong by that point. However, if you are willing to put in the time to get it to catch up it can be a great pokemon.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Teddiursa (C) for High tier. It comes much earlier in Crystal. Therefore, it is far more useful. It is one of the best early route pokemon in Crystal. I almost put this in Top but I'm gonna be conservative here unless other people say otherwise.

Teddiursa (C)
Availability: Early, before the first gym in Dark Cave.
Stats: Good
Movepool: Above Average
Gyms that it fares well against: It proves to be useful against the first gym leaders based on the power of its STAB moves alone (especially when it gets Headbutt). Once it reaches Goldenrod City it can improve its coverage with the elemental punches, allowing it to beat more things more easily. Fire Punch helps against Jasmine and by combining it with Thunderpunch you can sweep Pryce. Ice Punch deals with Clair, and from there you have the power and coverage to deal with a large number of the pokemon used by the elite 4 and Kanto Gym Leaders.
Other info: Thanks to a simple improvement in avaiability, this becomes an excellent choice for in-game runs. It comes early and has the stats and movepool to remain useful throughout the whole game.

callforjudgement · Sep 25th, 2012, 6:21:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Redew

I'd even say that it should be Bottom Tier, as you'd have next to no clue what Hidden Power you have and you'd have to go and catch too many to find one that you'd like. In addition, its base HP stat is horrendous; I wouldn't even pair it against a Magikarp.

I did say Bottom Tier.

You don't need to catch loads to find one with a useful Hidden Power; take a Hoothoot or something into battle with it and see if it's hit super-effectively. (And 3/17 chances aren't bad: you'll be happy with Ice, Electric, or Rock.) That's what I did.

Chou Toshio · Sep 25th, 2012, 8:38:22 PM

I put a lot of effort into making this post in the old thread so:

/

Abbreviated:

High (with walking... a lot...) / Mid (following a more normal route)
Availability: Don't bother with Slowpoke the first time you go to the well. Back track to get a fully evolved king/bro from the well after you get Strength.
Stats: Very good stats.
Movepool: Comes with Surf and Confusion and can use the cheap Ice Punch TM. Headbutt is also useful. Psychic comes really late in the game...
Type: It's a little repetitive with Gyarados, but Slowbro/king have really good typing that gives it excellent match-ups throughout most of the game. It is extremely useful against all of the later half of Johto + Elite four.

In detail:

High (with walking... a lot...) / Mid (following a more normal route)
Availability: Question-- how far are you willing to walk to get a poke? If you don't mind taking it slow... bro/king will really pay off.

Slowpoke is available really early in 2nd Generation, in the slowpoke well which is in the same town as the 2nd Gym; but it's almost pointless to catch it at that point in the game. It comes at a paltry level of 6-8, with only Tackle and it won't get Confusion until level 20. Keep in mind that Slowpoke won't evolve into Slowbro either until level 37, and you'll be hard pressed to find any practical use for it since slowpoke isn't really useful at any of the early gyms (though it can take down some Ghastly/Haunter in Morty's Gym, since only Morty's boss Gengar has Shadow Ball). Anyway, don't bother getting one on your first visit to the well.

The best way to make use of slowpoke is to go to Olivine and get Strength after beating Morty, and walk--yes WALK--all the way back to the slowpoke well. This is a long hike after all, but is a little sped up since you've beaten Sudowoodo by this point. With a bike and some repels, it won't be much of a hassle. Once you get back to the well, you should have Surf and Strength, which will allow you to reach the lower level of the well.

From there, Surf around to pick your poison:

90% Encounter Rate / Level 15-24 + King's Rock + Trade =

(King's Rock is also found on this 2nd Floor, so you can evolve immediately)

10% Encounter Rate / Level 20-25

And then you will finally have your fully evolved bulky Psychic / Water, only slightly under-leveled, but already packing Confusion and Surf for STAB.

Note: If you don't want to walk back to get them before Chuck, you'll have to wait until after him to get Fly to go back to the well. By that point though, you've just missed out on beating one of Slowbro/King's best gym match-ups, and you'll be even more underleveled and wouldn't have gotten to eat up all the experience you would have gained by beating the Black Belt's in Chuck's Gym... really, you want to get it before Chuck's Gym if possible.

Stats: Slowking and Slowbro have very good stats, with their 95HP + 110/80 Def/Sp.Def, and are packing a lot of power with 100 Special. Low Speed is not really desirable in-game, but they're both so bulky and powerful that they can make do. Just bring some healing items, as you should because you have so much money.

Movepool: They have Confusion and Surf for STAB right out-of-the box, and if you were planning to make the massively long treck back to get a Slow-Evo, you probably had the foresight to buy TM 33 in Golden Rod so that you have Ice Punch too! Headbutt is an option if you want a sorta-ok physical move. There are some other TMs that it can use, like Fire Blast / Blizzard / Shadow Ball / Dig, but you probably don't want to use those on bro. Keep in mind, Bro/King won't get Psychic (or any Psychic STAB outside Confusion) until level 54, or reaching Saffron City...

Type: Water is always a great in-game typing, and Psychic is still very nice as Bug- and Dark- attacks are rare. Opponents with Shadow Ball are basically non-existent after you get Slowbro/king. You do somewhat overlap with the Red Gyarados in terms of weaknesses/resistances, but unlike Gyarados, you get Psychic STAB and can make good use of Surf and Ice attacks-- doubling up on Water-types never hurts in GSC (especially since there are 2 Water type HMs you need to move around the map-- Give Surf to Slowbro/king and throw waterfall somewhere on Gyarados).

Match-ups:

Chuck: Slowbro/King destroy this gym (especially bro), laughing at Fighting attacks with their massive bulk, blowing enemies away with Confusion, and laughing at anything and everything the gym leader can do (resisting all his attacks except Rage / Fury Swipes, lol)

Jasmine: Obviously, don't send bro/king out against magnemites-- but you should have plenty of teammates that can handle them. Slowbro/king easily take down Steelix, and lol at Iron Tail (again, Slowbro being stronger here).

Pryce: Dewgong's Rest can be annoying... but Slowbro / King shrug off every attack that he has throughout his team, and can look for Confusion hax with Confusion. Slowking is actually the better choice in this gym, taking on more aurora beams.

Clair: Watch out because the 2nd Dragonair has Thunderbolt! They should be able to comfortably take on everything else with Ice Punch though. Kingdra can be a bit annoying. King's Special bulk makes it more useful against this gym.

Will: Ice Punch destroys Xatu, Exegg has no Grass moves and falls to Ice Punch, Jynx's moves are all resisted and you can overwhelm her with Surf or Headbutt, and Slowbro... well, mirror match.

Koga: King/bro can walk through everything he has with Surf and Confusion.

Bruno: Uhh... look out for Thunderpunch...? Ah, who am I kidding, Bro/King destroy Bruno.

Karen: Oh wow! a bad match-up! sorta... King/bro can still be useful here, destroying Gengar (watch out for Destiny Bond...) and being able to beat Murkrow (survive a hit and Ice Punch) or Houndoom (survive a hit and Surf)-- but obviously not both. Umbreon's annoyance and Faint Attack will be too much for King / Bro, and you have no business taking on Vileplume's Petal Dance.

Lance: King is going to struggle a little here, but is still very useful. Slowbro only needs to watch out for the Dragonite with Thunderbolt, but otherwise, it will have no problems with anything on Lance's team, shrugging off physical hits and resisted Special ones while taking his team down with Ice Punch (dragons), Surf (Charizard, Aero), and Confusion (Gyarados).

Lt. Surge: Ok... You've beaten the Elite Four, and you run into the first enemy that's actually a problem...

Sabrina: You resist her, but she don't resist your Surf. This is a good one for Slowking.

Misty: If you went to Saffron, you should have Psychic now, so you'll be able to take out everything except Starmie with ease. You resist all of Starmie's attacks, but it has Recover and Confuse Ray... you're probably best off using something else against Starmie to save yourself the annoyance.

Erika: Ok... here's another one you don't want to deal with... Slowking can be useful with its bulk and Psychic though.

Janine: Psychic DESTROYS her, just like Confusion did against Koga.

Brock: Surf wipes through his whole team, and he can't touch you with anything-- especially if you brought bro. Kabutop's Giga Drain is simply not a threat.

Blaine: Um yeah... Slowking/bro walk through this one too.

Blue: Slowking / Bro should have no problems taking everything down, except the Sunny Day / Solar Beam Exeggcutor. Unless, you're packing Fire Blast and you predict the Sunny Day like a boss.

Red: Erm... Pikachu and Venusaur... ew... The Snorlax also has Amnesia... You have the advantage against Espeon, Charizard and Blastoise though, especially if you have Slowking. Even against Venusaur, there's a fair chance it is going to Sunny Day, so just go for the Psychic (or Fire blast); Slowking can shrug off a Giga Drain and go on the offensive regardless.

Hemp Man · Sep 25th, 2012, 9:35:49 PM

Does this go up to Lance, or up to Red?

Faint · Sep 25th, 2012, 10:07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Chou Toshio

slowking + bro

Really good post. I've replayed GSC many times with Slowbro as my primary water type. It's extremely helpful. I haven't checked the in-game tier list for GSC in a while, but I imagine Vaporeon + Starmie would be the high alternatives for a water mon. I would still go ahead and use Slowbro/king though for all the reasons you said.

Nice job going into detail.

Redew · Sep 25th, 2012, 10:51:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat atsync

I think your list is missing Skarmory and Mantine.

I'll add them in.

Quote:

I guess I'll just go ahead and resubmit some of the pokemon I did in the old thread that weren't transferred here. I'll reserve Igglybuff (Jigglypuff), Magby (Magmar), and Teddiursa.

EDIT: Done. I hope I didn't write too much but I can edit if required.

I ended up doing separate entries for Crystal Magby/GS Magmar and Crystal Teddiursa/GS Teddiursa. I think they are different enough in usefulness to do this, but I can merge them if necessary.

Jigglypuff for Low tier. It learns some decent moves (elemental punches, etc) and can be evolved to Wigglytuff as soon as you get Surf by heading to the Tohjo Falls and getting the Moon Stone there. It's just about good enough to go above Bottom tier. However, it has meh stats and gets off to a slow start as a Jigglypuff (especially in GS where it only starts with Sing) so Mid isn't appropriate. Low sounds good to me.

Note: I listed it as Jigglypuff rather than Igglybuff because that's what you are probably going to obtain if you plan to use it. There is absolutely no reason to use the Igglybuff from the Odd Egg (Dizzy Punch is an advantage but you can just teach Jigglypuff Headbutt).

Jigglypuff
Availability: Early. Route 46 (GS, as a Jigglypuff) or Route 34 (Crystal, either caught as a Jigglypuff or from the Odd Egg as an Igglybuff).
Stats: Below Average
Movepool: Above Average
Gyms that it fares well against: It depends on what moves you gave it. Fire Punch is good for Jasmine and Erika, Ice Punch is good for Clair, Erika and Brock, and Thunderpunch is good for Misty. It you have all 3 then you can potential contribute in almost all battles, but strength wise full sweeps will be difficult to achieve.
Other info: Like many normal types, it can achieve excellent coverage via TM moves. However, there are many better alternatives, and although Wigglytuff is an ok pokemon in its own right after it is evolved you may be better off using something else.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Magmar (GS) for High tier. Magmar is a powerful pokemon that comes fairly early and has a decent movepool. It's probably the best Fire type in GS if you don't pick Cyndaquil.

Magmar (GS)
Availability: Fairly early, about midway through Johto in Burnt Tower.
Stats: Above Average
Movepool: Average
Gyms that it fares well against: Fire Punch and Thunderpunch is good coverage for Jasmine and Pryce. It doesn't help much against Clair but it does do well against particular pokemon used by the elite 4. Koga is probably its best match-up, using Fire Punch for his bugs and Thunderpunch for Crobat. In Kanto, you have Erika and Janine as strong match-ups.
Other info: Fire STAB is fairly useful in GSC, and in GS Magmar is your best choice for a Fire type if you didn't pick Cyndaquil.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Magby (C) for Mid tier. Magby comes a bit earlier in Crystal than Magmar does in GS but it comes extremely underleveled and you have to rely on luck to hatch it from the Odd Egg (you may get something else instead). I was tempted to put it in Low but I thought that may have been a bit much.

Magby (C)
Availability: Early, hatched from the Odd Egg.
Stats: Above Average
Movepool: Average
Gyms that it fares well against: Magby is available for Whitney, unlike GS Magmar. However, it isn't useful here since it gets destroyed by Whitney's Rollout. It will also be unevolved for Morty. Otherwise, the matchups are the same. Fire Punch and Thunderpunch still provide excellent coverage against many important pokemon (Jasmine and Pryce mainly). It contributes in elite 4 battles, especially against Koga.
Other info: Magmar is still a strong pokemon but it comes unevolved and underleveled in Crystal, and you have to hope that the Odd Egg hatches into the right pokemon. This makes it a less useful choice in Crystal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Teddiursa (G) for Low tier. It comes a bit too late to be of much use, but if you are willing to train it up and teach it the right moves, it can make the rest of the game MUCH easier.

Teddiursa (G)
Availability: Later in Johto, Route 45.
Stats: Good
Movepool: Above Average
Gyms that it fares well against: It depends on what you teach it so you can mix-and-match to suit your teams needs. Ice Punch covers Clair, and Fire Punch and Thunderpunch add coverage against many of the Elite 4 pokemon. Teddiursa also has its powerful STAB moves to wreck mosts things that don't resist it, especially after evolution. Teddiursa remains useful against the Kanto gym leaders thanks to its great stats and movepool.
Other info: This is let down severely by being unavailable for most of the game. By the time you reach it, you may not even need its power because your team should be strong by that point. However, if you are willing to put in the time to get it to catch up it can be a great pokemon.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Teddiursa (C) for High tier. It comes much earlier in Crystal. Therefore, it is far more useful. It is one of the best early route pokemon in Crystal. I almost put this in Top but I'm gonna be conservative here unless other people say otherwise.

Teddiursa (C)
Availability: Early, before the first gym in Dark Cave.
Stats: Good
Movepool: Above Average
Gyms that it fares well against: It proves to be useful against the first gym leaders based on the power of its STAB moves alone (especially when it gets Headbutt). Once it reaches Goldenrod City it can improve its coverage with the elemental punches, allowing it to beat more things more easily. Fire Punch helps against Jasmine and by combining it with Thunderpunch you can sweep Pryce. Ice Punch deals with Clair, and from there you have the power and coverage to deal with a large number of the pokemon used by the elite 4 and Kanto Gym Leaders.
Other info: Thanks to a simple improvement in avaiability, this becomes an excellent choice for in-game runs. It comes early and has the stats and movepool to remain useful throughout the whole game.

Awesome. Thanks :) I'll get to adding these in a second

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat callforjudgement

I did say Bottom Tier.

You don't need to catch loads to find one with a useful Hidden Power; take a Hoothoot or something into battle with it and see if it's hit super-effectively. (And 3/17 chances aren't bad: you'll be happy with Ice, Electric, or Rock.) That's what I did.

Sorry! I didn't see that part. Also, I'll add it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Chou Toshio

I put a lot of effort into making this post in the old thread so:

/

Abbreviated:

High (with walking... a lot...) / Mid (following a more normal route)
Availability: Don't bother with Slowpoke the first time you go to the well. Back track to get a fully evolved king/bro from the well after you get Strength.
Stats: Very good stats.
Movepool: Comes with Surf and Confusion and can use the cheap Ice Punch TM. Headbutt is also useful. Psychic comes really late in the game...
Type: It's a little repetitive with Gyarados, but Slowbro/king have really good typing that gives it excellent match-ups throughout most of the game. It is extremely useful against all of the later half of Johto + Elite four.

In detail:

High (with walking... a lot...) / Mid (following a more normal route)
Availability: Question-- how far are you willing to walk to get a poke? If you don't mind taking it slow... bro/king will really pay off.

Slowpoke is available really early in 2nd Generation, in the slowpoke well which is in the same town as the 2nd Gym; but it's almost pointless to catch it at that point in the game. It comes at a paltry level of 6-8, with only Tackle and it won't get Confusion until level 20. Keep in mind that Slowpoke won't evolve into Slowbro either until level 37, and you'll be hard pressed to find any practical use for it since slowpoke isn't really useful at any of the early gyms (though it can take down some Ghastly/Haunter in Morty's Gym, since only Morty's boss Gengar has Shadow Ball). Anyway, don't bother getting one on your first visit to the well.

The best way to make use of slowpoke is to go to Olivine and get Strength after beating Morty, and walk--yes WALK--all the way back to the slowpoke well. This is a long hike after all, but is a little sped up since you've beaten Sudowoodo by this point. With a bike and some repels, it won't be much of a hassle. Once you get back to the well, you should have Surf and Strength, which will allow you to reach the lower level of the well.

From there, Surf around to pick your poison:

90% Encounter Rate / Level 15-24 + King's Rock + Trade =

(King's Rock is also found on this 2nd Floor, so you can evolve immediately)

10% Encounter Rate / Level 20-25

And then you will finally have your fully evolved bulky Psychic / Water, only slightly under-leveled, but already packing Confusion and Surf for STAB.

Note: If you don't want to walk back to get them before Chuck, you'll have to wait until after him to get Fly to go back to the well. By that point though, you've just missed out on beating one of Slowbro/King's best gym match-ups, and you'll be even more underleveled and wouldn't have gotten to eat up all the experience you would have gained by beating the Black Belt's in Chuck's Gym... really, you want to get it before Chuck's Gym if possible.

Stats: Slowking and Slowbro have very good stats, with their 95HP + 110/80 Def/Sp.Def, and are packing a lot of power with 100 Special. Low Speed is not really desirable in-game, but they're both so bulky and powerful that they can make do. Just bring some healing items, as you should because you have so much money.

Movepool: They have Confusion and Surf for STAB right out-of-the box, and if you were planning to make the massively long treck back to get a Slow-Evo, you probably had the foresight to buy TM 33 in Golden Rod so that you have Ice Punch too! Headbutt is an option if you want a sorta-ok physical move. There are some other TMs that it can use, like Fire Blast / Blizzard / Shadow Ball / Dig, but you probably don't want to use those on bro. Keep in mind, Bro/King won't get Psychic (or any Psychic STAB outside Confusion) until level 54, or reaching Saffron City...

Type: Water is always a great in-game typing, and Psychic is still very nice as Bug- and Dark- attacks are rare. Opponents with Shadow Ball are basically non-existent after you get Slowbro/king. You do somewhat overlap with the Red Gyarados in terms of weaknesses/resistances, but unlike Gyarados, you get Psychic STAB and can make good use of Surf and Ice attacks-- doubling up on Water-types never hurts in GSC (especially since there are 2 Water type HMs you need to move around the map-- Give Surf to Slowbro/king and throw waterfall somewhere on Gyarados).

Match-ups:

Chuck: Slowbro/King destroy this gym (especially bro), laughing at Fighting attacks with their massive bulk, blowing enemies away with Confusion, and laughing at anything and everything the gym leader can do (resisting all his attacks except Rage / Fury Swipes, lol)

Jasmine: Obviously, don't send bro/king out against magnemites-- but you should have plenty of teammates that can handle them. Slowbro/king easily take down Steelix, and lol at Iron Tail (again, Slowbro being stronger here).

Pryce: Dewgong's Rest can be annoying... but Slowbro / King shrug off every attack that he has throughout his team, and can look for Confusion hax with Confusion. Slowking is actually the better choice in this gym, taking on more aurora beams.

Clair: Watch out because the 2nd Dragonair has Thunderbolt! They should be able to comfortably take on everything else with Ice Punch though. Kingdra can be a bit annoying. King's Special bulk makes it more useful against this gym.

Will: Ice Punch destroys Xatu, Exegg has no Grass moves and falls to Ice Punch, Jynx's moves are all resisted and you can overwhelm her with Surf or Headbutt, and Slowbro... well, mirror match.

Koga: King/bro can walk through everything he has with Surf and Confusion.

Bruno: Uhh... look out for Thunderpunch...? Ah, who am I kidding, Bro/King destroy Bruno.

Karen: Oh wow! a bad match-up! sorta... King/bro can still be useful here, destroying Gengar (watch out for Destiny Bond...) and being able to beat Murkrow (survive a hit and Ice Punch) or Houndoom (survive a hit and Surf)-- but obviously not both. Umbreon's annoyance and Faint Attack will be too much for King / Bro, and you have no business taking on Vileplume's Petal Dance.

Lance: King is going to struggle a little here, but is still very useful. Slowbro only needs to watch out for the Dragonite with Thunderbolt, but otherwise, it will have no problems with anything on Lance's team, shrugging off physical hits and resisted Special ones while taking his team down with Ice Punch (dragons), Surf (Charizard, Aero), and Confusion (Gyarados).

Lt. Surge: Ok... You've beaten the Elite Four, and you run into the first enemy that's actually a problem...

Sabrina: You resist her, but she don't resist your Surf. This is a good one for Slowking.

Misty: If you went to Saffron, you should have Psychic now, so you'll be able to take out everything except Starmie with ease. You resist all of Starmie's attacks, but it has Recover and Confuse Ray... you're probably best off using something else against Starmie to save yourself the annoyance.

Erika: Ok... here's another one you don't want to deal with... Slowking can be useful with its bulk and Psychic though.

Janine: Psychic DESTROYS her, just like Confusion did against Koga.

Brock: Surf wipes through his whole team, and he can't touch you with anything-- especially if you brought bro. Kabutop's Giga Drain is simply not a threat.

Blaine: Um yeah... Slowking/bro walk through this one too.

Blue: Slowking / Bro should have no problems taking everything down, except the Sunny Day / Solar Beam Exeggcutor. Unless, you're packing Fire Blast and you predict the Sunny Day like a boss.

Red: Erm... Pikachu and Venusaur... ew... The Snorlax also has Amnesia... You have the advantage against Espeon, Charizard and Blastoise though, especially if you have Slowking. Even against Venusaur, there's a fair chance it is going to Sunny Day, so just go for the Psychic (or Fire blast); Slowking can shrug off a Giga Drain and go on the offensive regardless.

aaaahhh so much. I'll add them to their respective tiers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Hemp Man

Does this go up to Lance, or up to Red?

I'm going to go ahead and say Red, as it's still part of the adventure in-game, but if others want this to be just until Lance then say so.

Hemp Man · Sep 25th, 2012, 11:02:22 PM

Quote:

I'm going to go ahead and say Red, as it's still part of the adventure in-game, but if others want this to be just until Lance then say so.

If its too Red, I can do an in-depth rewrite on Chikorita and Geodude this weekend.

Chou Toshio · Sep 25th, 2012, 11:23:41 PM

Just use the abbreviated one I used for the OP.

I would say Slowbro/King belong in High. Back tracking to get them is not that big a deal, and they're at a decent level, powerful, and fully evolved.

atsync · Sep 25th, 2012, 11:33:09 PM

Well I'm going to just keep redoing the entries I did from the old thread. Reserving Togepi, Chinchou, and Jynx.

Redew · Sep 25th, 2012, 11:33:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Hemp Man

If its too Red, I can do an in-depth rewrite on Chikorita and Geodude this weekend.

Go ahead

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Chou Toshio

Just use the abbreviated one I used for the OP.

I would say Slowbro/King belong in High. Back tracking to get them is not that big a deal, and they're at a decent level, powerful, and fully evolved.

I did, but I'd much rather have one format for all of the Pokemon. If there's something I could / should add, let me know.

atsync · Sep 26th, 2012, 2:27:03 AM

Here are Togepi and Chinchou. I'll do Jynx later. I'm still trying to decide whether I should do separate entries for GS Jynx and C Smoochum or not. I'm leaning in favour of having separate entries though.

Togepi for Bottom tier. I've tried this a few times and it is just crap. Bad stats and movepool pretty much make it a useless battler most of the time. Togetic actually has a good Special Attack (by GSC standards) but doesn't have anything to use it with (bar a possible special typed Hidden Power) until it reaches SolarBeam, which comes after all the gyms in Johto are beating if I'm remembering right. You have to hatch it from an egg, and it evolves throw happiness so you have to baby this stupid thing to prevent it from fainting too much and lowering your happiness.

Togepi
Availability: Early, obtained from an egg after beating Falkner.
Stats: Below Average
Movepool: Below Average
Gyms that it fares well against: It doesn’t really do well against any of them in Johto thanks to its poor movepool early on. Its best moves (Psychic and SolarBeam) come quite late. Admittedly, those are useful against Brock, Misty and Janine, but it’s just too little too late.
Other info: This is junk. Poor stat distribution and a poor movepool make it fairly useless. The fact that it will be underleveled by the time it hatches (unless you actually stop your progress to wait for it to hatch) is lame and the way it evolves through happiness is yet another reason not to use this.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Chinchou for Mid tier. It's actually an ok Water type. Its stats are a bit on the low side but they are sufficient for in-game runs (STAB Surf is still STAB Surf even off of a mere 76 Special Attack) and the STAB Electric coverage gives it a niche over other Water types.

Chinchou
Availability: Midway through Johto, via fishing with a Good Rod.
Stats: Below Average
Movepool: Above Average
Gyms that it fares well against: Wide coverage is helpful. Spark and Surf work well together. It can hold its own Chuck’s Poliwrath, Jasmine’s Steelix, and Pryce’s team, and remains useful against particular elite 4 Pokémon (Gyarados, Onix, Murkrow, Slowbro, Xatu, etc.). It can also take on Brock, Misty and Blaine.
Other info: The Electric typing is a nice twist on what would otherwise be a generic Water type. Despite its middling stats, its STABs alone make it useful and it provides utility by learning all of the Water HMs. A set of Surf/Waterfall/Whirlpool/Spark is probably its best bet.

***Mekkah***** · Sep 26th, 2012, 5:28:26 AM

I recommend either only accepting short or long entries, it just kinda looks messy this way. =(

For Jigglypuff, if you let your mom save your money for you, she actually buys a Moon Stone at some point, quite a while before Tohjo Falls. Of course the "problem" is that she will also waste a bunch of your money on dolls and stuff but you should have enough money anyway.

Diana · Sep 26th, 2012, 7:43:30 AM

If I know if to make a short or long entry I'll repost my Paras and Spearow entries from the other thread if you'd like.

I'm also doing an ingame run of Crystal now. Not technically reserving any of that but the team is Totodile, Growlithe (should have two entries because you get it way earlier in Crystal and have a possibility of a Fire Stone earlier), Corsola, Rattata, Nidoran-M, and Drowzee. Not technically reserving any of these right now but anything that's not written when I'm finished I'd be happy to write up.

JSND · Sep 26th, 2012, 9:21:05 AM

^ go ahead and reserve Totodile, my old post only goes until Lance

Anyway... Tauros.

atsync · Sep 26th, 2012, 5:42:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mekkah

For Jigglypuff, if you let your mom save your money for you, she actually buys a Moon Stone at some point, quite a while before Tohjo Falls. Of course the "problem" is that she will also waste a bunch of your money on dolls and stuff but you should have enough money anyway.

Hmmm... I did actually forget about that, but is it realistic that Mom will get enough money to buy the Moon Stone before you beat Morty? It's just that you only need to have Surf to get to the Tohjo Falls Moon Stone, and I thought Mom's Moon Stone would come after that. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I guess if you backtrack occasionally and deposit all of your money then she'll buy it sooner regardless.

Redew · Sep 30th, 2012, 11:49:28 PM

Added Togepi and Chinchou.

Sorry about not posting here or in my other thread. Family things (and they might get worse, too.)

Hemp Man · Oct 1st, 2012, 4:27:15 AM

Chikorita
Availability: Starter Pokemon
Stats: The Chikorita family has fairly balanced stats. They have pretty good defenses, and their attack stats are not great but usable.
Movepool: Chikorita’s level-up movepool is not the best offensively, only giving it Razor Leaf (which has been nerfed in Gen 2) and Body Slam. However, it does learn a ton of great support moves, such as Reflect, Light Screen, PoisonPowder, and Synthesis. It also can learn the always great Earthquake TM, but keep in mind that is a high-demand TM.
Gyms that it fares well against: While Chikorita may struggle against the first two Johto gyms due to a weakness to Flying and Bug, it actually serves as one of the best checks to Whitney’s infamous Miltank due to Reflect + Synthesis. Chikorita hits another bumpy road with Morty’s ghosts, but fairs well against mid game gym leaders. Razor Leaf will deal good damage to Chuck’s Poliwrath, Jasmine’s Steelix, and Pryce’s Piloswine. Meganium can also set up a Light Screen in the face of Clair's Kingdra and take it on, but watch out for paralyze hax or SmokeScreen accuracy drops. When it comes to the Elite 4, Bruno is the main target. Onix is OHKO by Razor Leaf, and a Reflect helps keep Meganium gets by the Fighting moves. In Kanto, Razor Leaf allows Meganium to plow though Brock and Misty. Meganium also resists Electric and Grass, and can be a great help in the battles against LT Surge and Erika. In the battle against Red, Chikorita walls Pikachu and Venusaur, and with a Light Screen up it can take out Blastoise,
Additional Comments: Chikorita is certainly an interesting starter. It struggles in many places, but its a good team supporter and can excel in some of the games harder match ups, such as Whitney and Red. One good early-game partner for Chikorita is Geodude. Geodude can help cover Chikorita's weakness to Flying, Bug, Poison, and Fire types, where as Chikorita can help cover Geodudes weakness to the Water and Grass types.

atsync · Oct 1st, 2012, 6:13:30 AM

Sorry about this, but I'd like to withdraw my reservation for Jynx. I just don't have the time for it :(

Also, if this is only going up to Lance, then some of the post-elite 4 pokemon need to be removed/ignored. Misdreavus, Murkrow, Houndour, Slugma, and Porygon for examples of these. Oh, and Kabuto and Omanyte aren't obtainable in GSC so you should remove those too!

***Mekkah***** · Oct 1st, 2012, 6:51:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat atsync

Hmmm... I did actually forget about that, but is it realistic that Mom will get enough money to buy the Moon Stone before you beat Morty? It's just that you only need to have Surf to get to the Tohjo Falls Moon Stone, and I thought Mom's Moon Stone would come after that. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I guess if you backtrack occasionally and deposit all of your money then she'll buy it sooner regardless.

I kinda forgot you could go to Tohjo Falls as soon as you get Surf, but it's still a sidetrack I wouldn't really want to do before you get Fly. I forgot when exactly you get a Moonstone. Someday I'll play through Crystal again and keep track of that stuff.

edit: Alright, got the Moonstone, iirc everything from here your mom buys you can do on your own as well except room decoration which doesn't matter.

Here's what she gets you, and when she got it for me. I fought pretty much every Trainer on the way. Apparently your mom buys things for less than you can buy them at Marts. For example, I think she bought Super Potion for like $400 or $350 (half price).
1. Super Potion: ~$800 ($400 after): between Violet and Union Cave
2. Repel: ~$4500: between Goldenrod and National Park
3. Super Potion: $6500 (Ecruteak City Dance Theater)
4. Charmander Doll: $8500 (between Ecruteak and Olivine)
5. Moon Stone: $12500 (between Mahogany Town and Lake of Rage)

Redew · Dec 20th, 2012, 5:16:12 PM

Goodness; October 1st v.v /me kick me

Sorry about that. Real life came up and I've just recently gotten a lot more free time, so I'm going to do this again!

Everything is updated and such, etc.

oh:

<Jellicent> then i'll just lock his and you can bump yours
<Redwind> okay

edit: all reserved entries have been abolished as of now. if you want to get them again, post to say you want them.

browjenofer · Dec 21st, 2012, 3:50:31 AM

it cannot meaningfully be trained up because it badly needs coverage to score KOs.

x42bn6 · Dec 21st, 2012, 4:48:40 AM

Nominating Totodile for top tier.

Totodile
Availability: Starter
Stats: Above average
Movepool: Good
Gyms that it fares well against: Morty (Bite), Jasmine (Dig + Surf), most of Pryce's team (Surf), Clair (Ice Punch), Sabrina (if you still have Bite), Janine (Dig + Ice Punch), Brock (anything), Blaine (anything), Blue (hits everything bar Gyarados super-effectively)

It's important to note that Totodile doesn't really lose to any gym leader. The only things in Johto that threaten it are Jasmine's Magnemites and one of Clair's Dragonairs, both of which are OHKOed by the appropriate coverage move; and it might struggle against Chuck's Poliwrath if it isn't a Feraligatr and/or doesn't have Dig/Return.

Lance's Thunder Dragonite likewise falls into this category (hits super-effectively, but OHKOed by Ice Punch).

Erika and Lt. Surge can beat Feraligatr, although it can still hit first (and possibly OHKO depending on level) with a super-effective move. Red's Pikachu and Venusaur could be threats depending on Feraligatr's level, and Blastoise and Snorlax could be a tedious slugfest.

Other info: As suggested above, this moveset gives it excellent coverage, hitting pretty much everything neutrally (if not everything):

Bite/Slash/Return
Water Gun -> Surf
Ice Punch
Dig -> Earthquake

As the gym coverage suggests, it perhaps only has slight issues with bulky waters and bulky grass types: Ampharos makes a great partner, with nifty Special bulk and Thunderpunch + Fire Punch coverage, in addition to the fact it levels up quicker than your starter to make up for its lack of power. In Crystal, you unfortunately don't have that bonus, but you can cover it with two others instead.

While it is a shame that Surf and Ice Punch hit off its weaker Special Attack stat, it's not the end of the world and you can boost either with Mystic Water or Nevermeltice. It's also hard to argue against getting a STAB, base power 95 attack halfway through Johto.

Totodile's moveset is also notable because it gets everything it needs at nice times. It gets Bite around Morty's gym, Surf when Water Gun starts to feel lacklustre, Ice Punch when the opposing starter becomes a real threat, and Dig when it starts to meet more Poison and Steel types.

It's also notable for the fact that it's possible to easily solo the game with the above moveset. If you do solo the game in this way, the only real threats reduce to Red's Pikachu and Venusaur.

This moveset also translates over to HG/SS (with Waterfall instead of Surf), although there are more threats and Karen's Umbreon is a fairly annoying speed bump in Elite Four rematches.

Sep 25th, 2012, 5:48:49 PM	#1
Redew <@Redew> jellicent <@Redew> how hammered are you <&Jellicent> i am a hammer Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 358 Everybody's goin' to the party; have a real good time. Mentor	GSC In-game tiers GSC In-game Tier List permission from Nexus YES I WILL GET THIS DONE MY COMPUTER WORKS NOW (OP taken over from TrollFreak for NixHex) Hey, OI, welcome to the GSC in-game tiers list. Anyone can post! So don't be afraid to post your thoughts, comments, etc. in the thread. Small entries only, and this goes up to Red. I've decided that making this run kind of like a threatlist, so here are some things to follow: You can reserve a maximum of 3 Pokemon at a time. Only reserve something if you've played GSC in-depth before and have a good understanding of what the in-game battles are like. Don't just post here if you got the game yesterday and haven't beat Whitney. If you disagree with what tier a Pokemon was placed in, feel free to post and gove reasons as to why it should be lower / higher. Just saying "lol Cyndaquil should be in high tier and not top noob" is flat out disrespectful and unnecessary. We can all act like adults over something like Pokemon without insulting someone's intelligence. The following is a list of what is [Reserved] and [DONE]. If you would like to reserve something, post here, VM / PM me, whatever, just let me know so I can update the thread accordingly. List Abra[DONE] Bellsprout [DONE] Caterpie Chikorita [DONE] Chinchou Cleffa Cubone Cyndaquil [DONE] Delibird [DONE] Diglett Ditto [DONE] Doduo Dratini Drowzee Eevee Ekans Elekid DONE Exeggcute Gastly [DONE] Geodude [DONE] Goldeen Grimer Growlithe Gyarados (Red) [DONE] Hoothoot Hoppip [DONE] Horsea Houndour Jigglypuff [DONE] Jynx Kabuto Koffing Krabby Larvitar Ledyba [DONE] Machop [DONE] Magby (C) [DONE] Magikarp Magmar (GS) [DONE] Magnemite Mankey Mantine [DONE] Mareep [DONE] Marill Meowth Miltank [RESERVED] Misdreavus [DONE] Murkrow [DONE] Natu Nidoran-F Nidoran-M Oddish [DONE] Omanyte Onix DONE Onix (Steelix) DONE Paras Phanpy Pichu Pidgey [DONE] Pineco Poliwag Ponyta Porygon Psyduck Rattata Remoraid [DONE] Rhyhorn Sandshrew Seel Sentret [DONE] Shellder Shuckle [DONE] Slugma Slowpoke [DONE] Smeargle [DONE] Smoochum Snubbull Spearow Spinarak Staryu Sunkern Swinub Tauros [DONE] Teddiursa [DONE] Tentacool Togepi Totodile Tyrogue Unown [DONE] Venonat Voltorb Vulpix Weedle DONE Wooper Zubat *How to post:* HTML Code: [B]Pokemon[/B] Availability (when it can be obtained the earliest): Stats (Above Average, good, bad, etc): Movepool (Above Average, good, bad, etc): Gyms that it fares well against: Other info (Good type coverage throughout the game, good resistance to a threatening type, etc): The article can be found here Pokemon GSC In-Game Tier List Top Tier: Top Tier Abra Availability: Early Stats: Above Average Movepool: Above Average Additional Comments: Useless against Whitney, the first leader you can fight after catching it, but excels later. Cleans out Morty's Gym by itself, same with Chuck's Gym. It slaughters Jasmine with Fire Punch, fares well vs Pryce and Clair, and does well against the Elite Four. Also cleans out every Team Rocket member by itself except for the final one at Radio Tower. Gyarados (Red) Availability: Required event Stats: Above Average Movepool: Above Average Additional Comments: The Red Gyarados rolls around at about the same level or higher than the rest of your team. It dominates everything in its path with Thrash (which even conserves PP thanks to being a multi-hit attack!), and makes a decent Surf user if you lack one already. If worse comes to worse, it's an excellent HM slave. High Tier: High Tier Cydaquil Availability: Starter Stats: Above Average Movepool: Above Average Additional Comments: Fire-type STAB is one of the best in-game with only Rock-, Water-, and Fire-types resisting it, none of which feature prominently on opposing teams. It also obtains super effective coverage on three gym leaders pre-E4. Defensively it resists Grass-, Steel-, Fire-, Ice-, and Bug-types, the latter two being important for gyms. Onix (Steelix) Availability: Earlier and easy as Onix, you can trade one for a Bellsprout on Violet City. Stats: Adove avarage. Movepool: Avarage. Gyms that it fares well against: Wins alone against Falkner, Bugsy, Whitney, Morty (once evolved), Jasmine, Pryce, Will, Koga, Lt. Surge, Sabrina, Erika, and Janine, and is helpful against Red's Pikachu and Snorlax. Additional Comments: While he's Onix, he will be superior to Geodude, and somewhat similar to Graveler, but taking more turns to deal the same damage (but taking less damage from the enemy as well), but once it evolves; thing he can do before Morty with the Metal Coat from a wild Magnemite - but they had only 3% chance to have it -, keep it as Onix until aboard the S.S Aqua, somewhat late, sadly), he'll crush and destroy everything on the game that doesn't have Fire or Water attacks, and even then, he can deal huge damage or use support moves before failing or switching-out against them. Gastly Availability: Early Stats: Above Average Movepool: Above Average Additional Comments: Good Speed and powerful Special Attack, low Special Defense and Defense. Literally the only reasons it's in High and not Top is that it requires trading and evolves late (Level 25 is late in GSC). Machop Availability: Early Stats: High Movepool: Average Additional Comments: Useful immediately to power through Whitney's team, and matches up fairly well with other gym leaders and the Elite 4. Mareep (Gold and Silver only) Availability: Early Stats: Above Average Movepool: Above Average Additional Comments: Great Special Attack and rather good defenses with all things considered, but is lacking speed. It is also weak to what is probably the least common attacking type in the game, Ground. Geodude Availability: Early Stats: Average Movepool: Average Additional Comments: Geodude absolutely dominates the first three gyms and fairs fairly well against Morty if you bring a Mint Berry or two. Rock Throw is amazing against titans like Falkner's Pidgeotto and Bugsy's Scyther and it can go toe-to-toe with Whitney's Miltank of all things! Even after the first half of the gyms, it does great in the Team Rocket portions of the game and walls Rattata and Zubat all day. Magmar (GS) Availability: Fairly early, about midway through Johto in Burnt Tower. Stats: Above Average Movepool: Average Gyms that it fares well against: Fire Punch and Thunderpunch is good coverage for Jasmine and Pryce. It doesn't help much against Clair but it does do well against particular pokemon used by the elite 4. Koga is probably its best match-up, using Fire Punch for his bugs and Thunderpunch for Crobat. In Kanto, you have Erika and Janine as strong match-ups. Other info: Fire STAB is fairly useful in GSC, and in GS Magmar is your best choice for a Fire type if you didn't pick Cyndaquil. Slowpoke Availability: Before Chuck's Gym. Can get a fully evolved Slowbro if lucky (Slowpoke Well). Alternatively, you can find a Slowpoke, level it up a bit, and trade right after you catch it. Stats: Above Average Movepool: Above Average Gyms that it fares well against: Does fairly well against most everything in-game Other info: Water is always a great in-game typing, and Psychic is still very nice as Bug- and Dark-type attacks are rare. Opponents with Shadow Ball are basically non-existent after you get Slowbro/king. You do somewhat overlap with the Red Gyarados in terms of weaknesses/resistances, but unlike Gyarados, you get Psychic STAB and can make good use of Surf and Ice attacks-- doubling up on Water-types never hurts in GSC (especially since there are 2 Water type HMs you need to move around the map--Give Surf to Slowbro/king and throw waterfall somewhere on Gyarados). Mid Tier: Mid Mantine - Mid Tier Availability: He's a somewhat rare encounter on the sea routes between Olivine and Cianwood. You'll probably encounter at least one if you don't Repel spam. Stats: Mantine's got a gargantuan 140 Base Special Defense and a respectable Base 80 Special Attack. Defense and HP are a little low at 70 and 65 respectively, and don't even bother with physical attacks, as it's not killing anything with Base 40 Attack. Speed's kinda mediocre as well at Base 70, but it's enough to get it by. Movepool: Surf and Blizzard. These are the only two moves that matter, and Mantine uses them pretty darn well. Most of the things Mantine likes to hit use either Special Attacks or are slower than he is, so Mantine can afford to only have a couple of good moves. Yeah, his movepool is pretty barren... Matchups: Mantine can beat Chuck's Primeape, but can't really harm his Poliwrath. Jasmine's Piloswine, Clair's three Dragonairs, and Pryce's Piloswine also fall to the manta ray. In the E4, Will has trouble actually hurting Mantine thanks to its Special Defense, but can't kill Slowbro. Koga's Ariados, Crobat and Venomoth also fall to Mantine, but Forretress likes to blow up and Muk likes to sit there and take Special hits all day. Bruno's Machamp has Rock Slide, but everyone else dies to Surf. Karen's Houndoom, Umbreon, and (sadly, terrible) Gengar all die to Mantine. The Dragonites outspeed Mantine, but Blizzard sorts them out, and only the Thunder Dragonite really poses a problem. In Kanto, Blaine, Janine, Brock, and part of Blue's team fall to Mantine. Red's Charizard is also no match for Mantine. Additional Comments: Mantine's problem is a lack of moves. This is one of those things that GSC is famous for. Many Pokemon in this Generation suffer from not having a move they really want. Mantine really wants Ice Beam, but only gets it in Crystal. He's also not as diverse as some of the other Water types (looking at you, Lanturn), and he's pretty rare. All these factors plant him solidly in Mid Tier. Teddiursa (C) Availability: Early, before the first gym in Dark Cave. Stats: Good Movepool: Above Average Gyms that it fares well against: It proves to be useful against the first gym leaders based on the power of its STAB moves alone (especially when it gets Headbutt). Once it reaches Goldenrod City it can improve its coverage with the elemental punches, allowing it to beat more things more easily. Fire Punch helps against Jasmine and by combining it with Thunderpunch you can sweep Pryce. Ice Punch deals with Clair, and from there you have the power and coverage to deal with a large number of the pokemon used by the elite 4 and Kanto Gym Leaders. Other info: Thanks to a simple improvement in avaiability, this becomes an excellent choice for in-game runs. It comes early and has the stats and movepool to remain useful throughout the whole game. Tauros Stats: Above Average. Movepool: Above Average Gyms that it fares well against: Depending on having Earthquake or not, Tauros Gym/Boss match up goes from Amazing into Absurd. Tauros can handle almost every gym after Chuck by the virtue of having High Powered Normal Type as its STAB. Other info: Defensively, Normal has one weakness, and one immunity. Fighting Weakness rarely come as a problem(only maybe Chuck, and Bruno's Machamp) while Ghost immunity means its match up against Morty's gym where you are not expected to have Pursuit yet. Offensively, Normal is kind of like gen 4 onwards Dragon, a type with relatively good neutral coverage, coupled with STAB to achieve higher level of power. The resistor can be handled with a coverage moves. That being said, most of Tauros Match up can be summed as: Does it resist Normal? No: Spam Normal Yes: Cover it. Onix Availability: Earlier and easy, you can trade one for a Bellsprout on Violet City. Stats: Avarage. Movepool: Avarage. Gyms that it fares well against: Wins alone against Falkner, Bugsy, Whitney, and Lt. Surge without problem, and is helpful against Morty (needs the Mud Slap or Dig TM), Jasmine (same as before), Koga, Karen, Janine, Blaine, and Red (good against Pikachu, Snorlax, and Charizard). Additional Comments: He's better than Geodude before it evolves, and is somewhat similar to Graveler, except because Onix prefer to deal damage with Bind + Sandstorm and wall the enemy while he's Screeching it for others or himself, too. Also, he can handle and survive to any random Self-Destruct and Explosion, and give you time for revive / heal his partners on mid battle. He will not sweep any time soon, but he can easy handle a good number of trainers and gyms alone. Also, he's a in-game trade, so, he'll win experience faster and will have better levels with less effort. Elekid Crystal: Mid Tier; Gold/Silver: Bottom Tier / out of play Availability: Route 34 in Crystal (as an egg). Stats: Above Average Movepool: Above Average where it counts Gyms that it fares well against: Jasmine, if you grind and buy Fire Punch. Pryce, sort of with the water types. Clair if you bought the Ice Punch. From the Elite 4: Will's team is ripped apart, Koga if you got Fire Punch, can do a bit of damage, Karen you'll do well against for the secondary typing, and Lance is a dead-man. In Kanto: Erika dies to ice punch, Janine's dead, save for Weezing, Misty (except Quaggy) is decimated, and Blastoise is done from Red. Additional Comments: Not much competition for that egg in Crystal. Magmar is nice, but fire is inferior. The trick is getting that Elekid, which is tough when it could contain Igglybuff, Pichu, Cleffa, Tyrogue, Magby, Elekid or Smoochum. Electabuzz quickly gets access to Thunderbolt and Ice Punch, even sets up a Dizzy Punch or Light Screen if you are bored (Dizzy punch is included in the Crystal Egg). It's not quite a Lapras in terms of movepool, but it doesn't have many weaknesses to speak of (though Ground is an issue). Makes up for not having Ampharos in Crystal. In Gold/Silver, he's completely useless, as he comes late, and you have Mareep from the beginning of the game. Mareep DOES NOT have access to an Ice move, though. Chinchou Availability: Midway through Johto, via fishing with a Good Rod. Stats: Below Average Movepool: Above Average Gyms that it fares well against: Wide coverage is helpful. Spark and Surf work well together. It can hold its own Chuck’s Poliwrath, Jasmine’s Steelix, and Pryce’s team, and remains useful against particular elite 4 Pokémon (Gyarados, Onix, Murkrow, Slowbro, Xatu, etc.). It can also take on Brock, Misty and Blaine. Other info: The Electric typing is a nice twist on what would otherwise be a generic Water type. Despite its middling stats, its STABs alone make it useful and it provides utility by learning all of the Water HMs. A set of Surf/Waterfall/Whirlpool/Spark is probably its best bet. Chikorita Availability: Starter Pokemon Stats: The Chikorita family has fairly balanced stats. They have pretty good defenses, and their attack stats are not great but usable. Movepool: Chikorita’s level-up movepool is not the best offensively, only giving it Razor Leaf (which has been nerfed in Gen 2) and Body Slam. However, it does learn a ton of great support moves, such as Reflect, Light Screen, and Synthesis. Gyms that it fares well against: Chikorita actually serves as one of the best checks to Whitney’s infamous Miltank due to Reflect + Synthesis. Razor Leaf will also deal good damage to Chuck’s Poliwrath, Jasmine’s Steelix, and Pryce’s Piloswine. Meganium can also handle Bruno as Onix is OHKO by Razor Leaf, and a Reflect helps keep Meganium gets by the Fighting moves. In Kanto, Meganium's typing gives it an advantage over Brock, Misty, L.T. Surge, Erika, & half of Red's team (Pikachu, Venusaur, and Blastoise). Additional Comments: Chikorita is certainly an interesting starter. It struggles in many places, but its a good team supporter and can excel in some of the games harder match ups, such as Whitney and Red. Bellsprout Availability: Early Stats: Average Movepool: Shallow Additional Comments: Bellsprout can be caught right around the first gym and, although it's useless in that particular battle, it does very well in Union Cave. Vine Whip is not to be underestimated when it's striking Onix and Geodude for 4x super effective damage. As time goes by, Bellsprout stays useful by learning Sleep Powder(!), and later on Sludge Bomb and Razor Leaf. Using Vine Whip for so long gets annoying, but it gets the job done when it's needed. Sadly, it will take ages for it to reach its full potential as a Victreebel in Gold and Silver, but it can get off the round pretty early if you're playing Crystal. Sentret Availability: Early Stats: Below Average Movepool: Wide Additional Comments: Has bad offensive stats but respectable Speed. Makes an excellent HM slave, learning Surf, Cut, and Strength. Magby (C) Availability: Early, hatched from the Odd Egg. Stats: Above Average Movepool: Average Gyms that it fares well against: Magby is available for Whitney, unlike GS Magmar. However, it isn't useful here since it gets destroyed by Whitney's Rollout. It will also be unevolved for Morty. Otherwise, the matchups are the same. Fire Punch and Thunderpunch still provide excellent coverage against many important pokemon (Jasmine and Pryce mainly). It contributes in elite 4 battles, especially against Koga. Other info: Magmar is still a strong pokemon but it comes unevolved and underleveled in Crystal, and you have to hope that the Odd Egg hatches into the right pokemon. This makes it a less useful choice in Crystal. Low Tier: Low Oddish Availability: Oddish is first found when you reach Ilex Forest, and is fairly common at night. Stats: Good early on, but having a stone evo really gives him problems. Movepool: Pretty bad. Oddish suffers from having only Absorb, Acid, and Cut for a long, long, time, and Sludge Bomb isn't much help. It takes until the E4 to get a useful attack move. Gyms that it fares well against: Oddish can help with Chuck, Bruno, Lt. Surge, Erika, and Brock, as well as cleaning up certain pokemon on other teams. It also isn't completely destroyed by Team Rocket, compared to other Grass types. Other info: Vileplume's biggest two problems are severely bad damage early on and a difficult evolution. Both of these cannot be rectified until the E4, so using it's honestly an uphill battle. Cut being your best move against most things is very unpleasant, and being walled is never fun. In the end it's not so bad that it can't be used, it's just terrible enough that almost any other Grass type that isn't useless(examples of useless include Hoppip and Paras) probably does its job better. The poison neutrality is pretty good, though, and it's fairly usable in Kanto. Teddiursa (G) Availability: Later in Johto, Route 45. Stats: Good Movepool: Above Average Gyms that it fares well against: It depends on what you teach it so you can mix-and-match to suit your teams needs. Ice Punch covers Clair, and Fire Punch and Thunderpunch add coverage against many of the Elite 4 pokemon. Teddiursa also has its powerful STAB moves to wreck mosts things that don't resist it, especially after evolution. Teddiursa remains useful against the Kanto gym leaders thanks to its great stats and movepool. Other info: This is let down severely by being unavailable for most of the game. By the time you reach it, you may not even need its power because your team should be strong by that point. However, if you are willing to put in the time to get it to catch up it can be a great pokemon. Pidgey Availability: Early Stats: Below Average Movepool: Shallow Additional Comments: Has weak stats all around and doesn't fully evolve until level 36, very late into the game and past the point of usefulness. It does learn Fly, however, and is available rather early. Jigglypuff Availability: Early. Route 46 (GS, as a Jigglypuff) or Route 34 (Crystal, either caught as a Jigglypuff or from the Odd Egg as an Igglybuff). Stats: Below Average Movepool: Above Average Gyms that it fares well against: It depends on what moves you gave it. Fire Punch is good for Jasmine and Erika, Ice Punch is good for Clair, Erika and Brock, and Thunderpunch is good for Misty. It you have all 3 then you can potential contribute in almost all battles, but strength wise full sweeps will be difficult to achieve. Other info: Like many normal types, it can achieve excellent coverage via TM moves. However, there are many better alternatives, and although Wigglytuff is an ok pokemon in its own right after it is evolved you may be better off using something else. Bottom Tier: Bottom Delibird Bottom Tier Stats: Dear lord, Delibird, you have the stats of a NFE Pokemon. Base 65 SpAtk is only slightly better than Ariados' and Base 45 defenses is just pitiful. The only interesting thing is having 75 Base speed...as your best stat. Movepool: Godawful, you are completely reliant on TMs to do anything at all, because your only Level up move has a CHANCE OF HEALING YOUR FOE! As for TMs, aside from Fly, Icy Wind and Blizzard, there is nothing at all interesting. As in, you have no other STAB, the only other attacking moves you get are Headbutt and Mud Slap (and obligatory Frustration/Return)...and that's it. Nothing good at all aside from Blizzard, which got nerfed considerably in Gen 2 (90% accuracy all the way down to 70% accuracy) Matchups: Delibird doesn't really excel anywhere thanks to its terribad stats and amazingly shallow movepool. The entire reason you'd want an Ice type is to take care of the six or so Dragons in the game, and Delibird can't even do that! He can contribute in some of the Kanto gyms if you didn't bother dumping it as soon as you could thanks to sheer level advantage, but even then, there are things that do its job way better in the same place that are far easier to find and capture. Additional Comments: Delibird has a cool sounding cry, and a unique design. It also just so happens to have a terrible movepool consisting of Fly, Blizzard, and Icy Wind. It is completely reliant on TMs to do anything aside from healing the enemy, and even then, it can't use any TMs to make it a decent Pokemon. It's stats are also on the line between terrible and godawful. It's literally worse than Gen 3 Luvdisc, because at least it could learn some moves and have Ice Beam! Avoid at all cost. Shuckle - Bottom Tier Availability: Earliest you can get is after Sudowoodo, by getting the TM from the guy near it on Route 36 (don't worry about being limited, they also become available from Goldenrod), and going to Burned Tower to smash some rocks for a 10% chance of a L15 Shuckle. Otherwise, you can get one for free at Cianwood, which also gets boosted experience. Stats: It has the best defenses in the game, but it also happens to be even slower than Slowpoke and has the offenses of a Magikarp. Movepool: There isn't much to be said when your only STAB is Rollout. Shuckle learns a variety of utility moves (as well as Earthquake/Sludge Bomb, wasted on something with Shuckle's offenses), which makes him a status abuser, so to speak. Gyms it's good at: Considering that his awesome defenses are countered badly by his bad HP, and that he has Magikarp-level offenses, he's not going to be useful anywhere soon other than being item fodder. Other info: Shuckle may seem useless but still has one trick up his sleeve, legs, shell, whatever: he has the ability to make infinite Rare Candies. By attaching a Berry onto Shuckle and walking around, Shuckle will be able to turn your Berry into a Berry Juice and then a Rare Candy, providing the potential for infinite Rare Candies and a gamebreaker. Unfortunately, the time invested is contradictory to efficiency, placing it in Bottom. Remoraid Availability: Remoraid is very late by Johto standards, swarming at an underleveled 20 or after reaching Kanto when you get the Super Rod at level 40. It's not available in Crystal.. Stats: Remoraid has pathetic defenses and only decent offenses, and its evolution has only average defense but rather good mixed offenses. Movepool: Below average. Remoraid basically depends on Aurora/Ice Beam, Bubblebeam/Surf, Psybeam, and perhaps Thief. Nothing else works for it. Gyms that it fares well against: Remoraid comes late and really doesn't do so well, especially since it's underleveled. It can possibly take out Karen(bar Vileplume) and Blaine, but everyone else either resists or easily KOs Octillery. Other info: Octillery is probably one of the worst fully evolved water types in the game. It comes late, is easy to miss, doesn't even have any good moves for the time it does show up and is dangerously easy to KO considering its lame speed. It does get acceptable coverage for some of the smaller fights, but realistically you'd be better off with any other Water. Not to mention Surfing is mandatory by the time you actually have access to it, so you probably already have a good Water.. Hoppip Availability: Routes 32 and 33, right after Violet City. Stats: Bad. All he has is good speed. Movepool: Horrible. He has almost no attacking options and has to rely on Synthesis with Status support. Gyms that it fares well against: Hoppip is only really capable of taking down Brock. Everyone else has at least one party member he cannot harm in any meaningful way, and often multiple ones. Other info: Hoppip is really weak and almost completely useless. It can only attempt to use status to defeat most opponents, bar the occasional 4x grass weak. Electabuzz Gold/Silver: Bottom Tier / out of play Availability: Route 10 Stats: Above Average Movepool: Above Average where it counts Gyms that it fares well against: Jasmine, if you grind and buy Fire Punch. Pryce, sort of with the water types. Clair if you bought the Ice Punch. From the Elite 4: Will's team is ripped apart, Koga if you got Fire Punch, can do a bit of damage, Karen you'll do well against for the secondary typing, and Lance is a dead-man. In Kanto: Erika dies to ice punch, Janine's dead, save for Weezing, Misty (except Quaggy) is decimated, and Blastoise is done from Red. Additional Comments: Electabuzz quickly gets access to Thunderbolt and Ice Punch, even sets up a Dizzy Punch or Light Screen if you are bored (Dizzy punch is included in the Crystal Egg). It's not quite a Lapras in terms of movepool, but it doesn't have many weaknesses to speak of (though Ground is an issue). In Gold/Silver, he's completely useless, as he comes late, and you have Mareep from the beginning of the game. Mareep DOES NOT have access to an Ice move, though. Togepi Availability: Early, obtained from an egg after beating Falkner. Stats: Below Average Movepool: Below Average Gyms that it fares well against: It doesn’t really do well against any of them in Johto thanks to its poor movepool early on. Its best moves (Psychic and SolarBeam) come quite late. Admittedly, those are useful against Brock, Misty and Janine, but it’s just too little too late. Other info: This is junk. Poor stat distribution and a poor movepool make it fairly useless. The fact that it will be underleveled by the time it hatches (unless you actually stop your progress to wait for it to hatch) is lame and the way it evolves through happiness is yet another reason not to use this. Unown Availability: Early Stats: Low Movepool: Shallow Gyms that it fairs well against: Falkner Other info: Unown's only saving grace is the fact that you can catch one with a Hidden Power of any type, meaning that it can give some much-needed coverage early in the game; pick one with HP Ice, Electric, or Rock, and it'll help you beat out Falkner if you started with Chikorita. Its stats are too low to function meaningfully later in the game, though, even with super-effective attacks, and it cannot meaningfully be trained up because it badly needs coverage to score KOs. Murkrow Availability: Late Stats: Low Movepool: Shallow Additional Comments: It is extremely unavailable, has a poor stat distribution, a terrible movepool, and just being overall weak, and those defenses aren't helping much. However, it has a niche over Sabrina and Red, but its too late to warrant use. Misdreavus Availability: Late Stats: Low Movepool: Shallow Additional Comments: Very rare, only found in Mt. Silver at night. It learns two attacking moves via level up, and only 8 total. It can't really put good TMs to use either besides Psychic. Ledyba (Sliver and Crystal Only) Availability: Early Stats: Low Movepool: Shallow Additional Comments: Weak to Ice, Electric, Fire, Rock and Flying. Not exactly good news. It isn't worth commenting on its STABS because it has no STAB moves (not even Fury Cutter). Ditto Availability: Early Stats: Low Movepool: Transform Additional Comments: Ditto is so terrible it needs no explanation. It's better left waiting until it becomes a Wifi mod. Smeargle Availability: Early Stats: Low Movepool: ADD Additional Comments: Smeargle can learn any move it wants, but it's extremely painful to do so once every ten levels with no move tutor and no double battles to copy partner attacks. Did I mention it's hard to get, too? Weedle Availability: Route 30 on Silver/Crystal. Gold players get this at Bug-Catching contest (or catch Beedrill directly). Honestly there probably isn't a difference other than directly caught Beedrill lacking Poison Sting. Stats: Passable Attack and Special Defense, decent speed, but incurable physical bulk. Movepool: Enjoy abusing Twineedle for quite a while. Finishing Team Rocket in Mahogany nets you Sludge Bomb. Gyms: well it 4x resists Fighting so it's useful against Chuck/Bruno... if the former didn't just blow you away with Fury Swipes Primeape and Surf Poliwrath, and the latter has Rock Slide Machamp. It completely walks over Erika but you must be one dedicated trainer to be using Beedrill in Kanto. Psychics are a no-no: Beedrill cannot kill things in time before it gets killed. Additional Comments: Double resists to Fighting and Grass aren't really useful when neither type are dominant in this game, and his main move (Twineedle/Sludge Bomb) gets resisted quite a lot. Post in the thread if you think anything should be higher / lower. __________________ GRAMMAR GOJO on loa Last edited by Redew; Mar 6th, 2013 at 10:41:54 PM.

Sep 25th, 2012, 6:14:05 PM	#2
callforjudgement Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 299	OK, since I'm one of the probably few people who's seriously tried to use Unown in GSC: Unown Availability: Early Stats: Low Movepool: Shallow Gyms that it fairs well against: Falkner Other info: Unown's only saving grace is the fact that you can catch one with a Hidden Power of any type, meaning that it can give some much-needed coverage early in the game; pick one with HP Ice, Electric, or Rock, and it'll help you beat out Falkner if you started with Chikorita. Its stats are too low to function meaningfully later in the game, though, even with super-effective attacks, and it cannot meaningfully be trained up because it badly needs coverage to score KOs. Recommend this is placed into Bottom tier. __________________ Pokémon spinoffs: Ranger You freak out when you hear a Clamperl; Mystery Dungeon You freak out when you see a Ledian. <Sunflora> So let me get this straight: you're sending me into a dungeon full of lava, to capture a Haunter which is part poison type?

Sep 25th, 2012, 6:18:17 PM	#3
Redew <@Redew> jellicent <@Redew> how hammered are you <&Jellicent> i am a hammer Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 358 Everybody's goin' to the party; have a real good time. Mentor	I'd even say that it should be Bottom Tier, as you'd have next to no clue what Hidden Power you have and you'd have to go and catch too many to find one that you'd like. In addition, its base HP stat is horrendous; I wouldn't even pair it against a Magikarp. __________________ GRAMMAR GOJO on loa

Sep 25th, 2012, 6:19:01 PM	#4
atsync Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 790 Australia	I think your list is missing Skarmory and Mantine. I guess I'll just go ahead and resubmit some of the pokemon I did in the old thread that weren't transferred here. I'll reserve Igglybuff (Jigglypuff), Magby (Magmar), and Teddiursa. EDIT: Done. I hope I didn't write too much but I can edit if required. I ended up doing separate entries for Crystal Magby/GS Magmar and Crystal Teddiursa/GS Teddiursa. I think they are different enough in usefulness to do this, but I can merge them if necessary. Jigglypuff for Low tier. It learns some decent moves (elemental punches, etc) and can be evolved to Wigglytuff as soon as you get Surf by heading to the Tohjo Falls and getting the Moon Stone there. It's just about good enough to go above Bottom tier. However, it has meh stats and gets off to a slow start as a Jigglypuff (especially in GS where it only starts with Sing) so Mid isn't appropriate. Low sounds good to me. Note: I listed it as Jigglypuff rather than Igglybuff because that's what you are probably going to obtain if you plan to use it. There is absolutely no reason to use the Igglybuff from the Odd Egg (Dizzy Punch is an advantage but you can just teach Jigglypuff Headbutt). Jigglypuff Availability: Early. Route 46 (GS, as a Jigglypuff) or Route 34 (Crystal, either caught as a Jigglypuff or from the Odd Egg as an Igglybuff). Stats: Below Average Movepool: Above Average Gyms that it fares well against: It depends on what moves you gave it. Fire Punch is good for Jasmine and Erika, Ice Punch is good for Clair, Erika and Brock, and Thunderpunch is good for Misty. It you have all 3 then you can potential contribute in almost all battles, but strength wise full sweeps will be difficult to achieve. Other info: Like many normal types, it can achieve excellent coverage via TM moves. However, there are many better alternatives, and although Wigglytuff is an ok pokemon in its own right after it is evolved you may be better off using something else. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Magmar (GS) for High tier. Magmar is a powerful pokemon that comes fairly early and has a decent movepool. It's probably the best Fire type in GS if you don't pick Cyndaquil. Magmar (GS) Availability: Fairly early, about midway through Johto in Burnt Tower. Stats: Above Average Movepool: Average Gyms that it fares well against: Fire Punch and Thunderpunch is good coverage for Jasmine and Pryce. It doesn't help much against Clair but it does do well against particular pokemon used by the elite 4. Koga is probably its best match-up, using Fire Punch for his bugs and Thunderpunch for Crobat. In Kanto, you have Erika and Janine as strong match-ups. Other info: Fire STAB is fairly useful in GSC, and in GS Magmar is your best choice for a Fire type if you didn't pick Cyndaquil. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Magby (C) for Mid tier. Magby comes a bit earlier in Crystal than Magmar does in GS but it comes extremely underleveled and you have to rely on luck to hatch it from the Odd Egg (you may get something else instead). I was tempted to put it in Low but I thought that may have been a bit much. Magby (C) Availability: Early, hatched from the Odd Egg. Stats: Above Average Movepool: Average Gyms that it fares well against: Magby is available for Whitney, unlike GS Magmar. However, it isn't useful here since it gets destroyed by Whitney's Rollout. It will also be unevolved for Morty. Otherwise, the matchups are the same. Fire Punch and Thunderpunch still provide excellent coverage against many important pokemon (Jasmine and Pryce mainly). It contributes in elite 4 battles, especially against Koga. Other info: Magmar is still a strong pokemon but it comes unevolved and underleveled in Crystal, and you have to hope that the Odd Egg hatches into the right pokemon. This makes it a less useful choice in Crystal. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Teddiursa (G) for Low tier. It comes a bit too late to be of much use, but if you are willing to train it up and teach it the right moves, it can make the rest of the game MUCH easier. Teddiursa (G) Availability: Later in Johto, Route 45. Stats: Good Movepool: Above Average Gyms that it fares well against: It depends on what you teach it so you can mix-and-match to suit your teams needs. Ice Punch covers Clair, and Fire Punch and Thunderpunch add coverage against many of the Elite 4 pokemon. Teddiursa also has its powerful STAB moves to wreck mosts things that don't resist it, especially after evolution. Teddiursa remains useful against the Kanto gym leaders thanks to its great stats and movepool. Other info: This is let down severely by being unavailable for most of the game. By the time you reach it, you may not even need its power because your team should be strong by that point. However, if you are willing to put in the time to get it to catch up it can be a great pokemon. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Teddiursa (C) for High tier. It comes much earlier in Crystal. Therefore, it is far more useful. It is one of the best early route pokemon in Crystal. I almost put this in Top but I'm gonna be conservative here unless other people say otherwise. Teddiursa (C) Availability: Early, before the first gym in Dark Cave. Stats: Good Movepool: Above Average Gyms that it fares well against: It proves to be useful against the first gym leaders based on the power of its STAB moves alone (especially when it gets Headbutt). Once it reaches Goldenrod City it can improve its coverage with the elemental punches, allowing it to beat more things more easily. Fire Punch helps against Jasmine and by combining it with Thunderpunch you can sweep Pryce. Ice Punch deals with Clair, and from there you have the power and coverage to deal with a large number of the pokemon used by the elite 4 and Kanto Gym Leaders. Other info: Thanks to a simple improvement in avaiability, this becomes an excellent choice for in-game runs. It comes early and has the stats and movepool to remain useful throughout the whole game. __________________ Pokemon Dream World Guide (UPLOADED) RBY In-game tiers Hidden Items in RBY Last edited by atsync; Sep 25th, 2012 at 7:49:16 PM.

Sep 25th, 2012, 8:38:22 PM	#6
Chou Toshio Hmmm... A name for the plan... Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,937 Sea Forest	I put a lot of effort into making this post in the old thread so: / / Abbreviated: High (with walking... a lot...) / Mid (following a more normal route) Availability: Don't bother with Slowpoke the first time you go to the well. Back track to get a fully evolved king/bro from the well after you get Strength. Stats: Very good stats. Movepool: Comes with Surf and Confusion and can use the cheap Ice Punch TM. Headbutt is also useful. Psychic comes really late in the game... Type: It's a little repetitive with Gyarados, but Slowbro/king have really good typing that gives it excellent match-ups throughout most of the game. It is extremely useful against all of the later half of Johto + Elite four. In detail: High (with walking... a lot...) / Mid (following a more normal route) Availability: Question-- how far are you willing to walk to get a poke? If you don't mind taking it slow... bro/king will really pay off. Slowpoke is available really early in 2nd Generation, in the slowpoke well which is in the same town as the 2nd Gym; but it's almost pointless to catch it at that point in the game. It comes at a paltry level of 6-8, with only Tackle and it won't get Confusion until level 20. Keep in mind that Slowpoke won't evolve into Slowbro either until level 37, and you'll be hard pressed to find any practical use for it since slowpoke isn't really useful at any of the early gyms (though it can take down some Ghastly/Haunter in Morty's Gym, since only Morty's boss Gengar has Shadow Ball). Anyway, don't bother getting one on your first visit to the well. The best way to make use of slowpoke is to go to Olivine and get Strength after beating Morty, and walk--yes WALK--all the way back to the slowpoke well. This is a long hike after all, but is a little sped up since you've beaten Sudowoodo by this point. With a bike and some repels, it won't be much of a hassle. Once you get back to the well, you should have Surf and Strength, which will allow you to reach the lower level of the well. From there, Surf around to pick your poison: 90% Encounter Rate / Level 15-24 + King's Rock + Trade = (King's Rock is also found on this 2nd Floor, so you can evolve immediately) 10% Encounter Rate / Level 20-25 And then you will finally have your fully evolved bulky Psychic / Water, only slightly under-leveled, but already packing Confusion and Surf for STAB. Note: If you don't want to walk back to get them before Chuck, you'll have to wait until after him to get Fly to go back to the well. By that point though, you've just missed out on beating one of Slowbro/King's best gym match-ups, and you'll be even more underleveled and wouldn't have gotten to eat up all the experience you would have gained by beating the Black Belt's in Chuck's Gym... really, you want to get it before Chuck's Gym if possible. Stats: Slowking and Slowbro have very good stats, with their 95HP + 110/80 Def/Sp.Def, and are packing a lot of power with 100 Special. Low Speed is not really desirable in-game, but they're both so bulky and powerful that they can make do. Just bring some healing items, as you should because you have so much money. Movepool: They have Confusion and Surf for STAB right out-of-the box, and if you were planning to make the massively long treck back to get a Slow-Evo, you probably had the foresight to buy TM 33 in Golden Rod so that you have Ice Punch too! Headbutt is an option if you want a sorta-ok physical move. There are some other TMs that it can use, like Fire Blast / Blizzard / Shadow Ball / Dig, but you probably don't want to use those on bro. Keep in mind, Bro/King won't get Psychic (or any Psychic STAB outside Confusion) until level 54, or reaching Saffron City... Type: Water is always a great in-game typing, and Psychic is still very nice as Bug- and Dark- attacks are rare. Opponents with Shadow Ball are basically non-existent after you get Slowbro/king. You do somewhat overlap with the Red Gyarados in terms of weaknesses/resistances, but unlike Gyarados, you get Psychic STAB and can make good use of Surf and Ice attacks-- doubling up on Water-types never hurts in GSC (especially since there are 2 Water type HMs you need to move around the map-- Give Surf to Slowbro/king and throw waterfall somewhere on Gyarados). Match-ups: Chuck: Slowbro/King destroy this gym (especially bro), laughing at Fighting attacks with their massive bulk, blowing enemies away with Confusion, and laughing at anything and everything the gym leader can do (resisting all his attacks except Rage / Fury Swipes, lol) Jasmine: Obviously, don't send bro/king out against magnemites-- but you should have plenty of teammates that can handle them. Slowbro/king easily take down Steelix, and lol at Iron Tail (again, Slowbro being stronger here). Pryce: Dewgong's Rest can be annoying... but Slowbro / King shrug off every attack that he has throughout his team, and can look for Confusion hax with Confusion. Slowking is actually the better choice in this gym, taking on more aurora beams. Clair: Watch out because the 2nd Dragonair has Thunderbolt! They should be able to comfortably take on everything else with Ice Punch though. Kingdra can be a bit annoying. King's Special bulk makes it more useful against this gym. Will: Ice Punch destroys Xatu, Exegg has no Grass moves and falls to Ice Punch, Jynx's moves are all resisted and you can overwhelm her with Surf or Headbutt, and Slowbro... well, mirror match. Koga: King/bro can walk through everything he has with Surf and Confusion. Bruno: Uhh... look out for Thunderpunch...? Ah, who am I kidding, Bro/King destroy Bruno. Karen: Oh wow! a bad match-up! sorta... King/bro can still be useful here, destroying Gengar (watch out for Destiny Bond...) and being able to beat Murkrow (survive a hit and Ice Punch) or Houndoom (survive a hit and Surf)-- but obviously not both. Umbreon's annoyance and Faint Attack will be too much for King / Bro, and you have no business taking on Vileplume's Petal Dance. Lance: King is going to struggle a little here, but is still very useful. Slowbro only needs to watch out for the Dragonite with Thunderbolt, but otherwise, it will have no problems with anything on Lance's team, shrugging off physical hits and resisted Special ones while taking his team down with Ice Punch (dragons), Surf (Charizard, Aero), and Confusion (Gyarados). Lt. Surge: Ok... You've beaten the Elite Four, and you run into the first enemy that's actually a problem... Sabrina: You resist her, but she don't resist your Surf. This is a good one for Slowking. Misty: If you went to Saffron, you should have Psychic now, so you'll be able to take out everything except Starmie with ease. You resist all of Starmie's attacks, but it has Recover and Confuse Ray... you're probably best off using something else against Starmie to save yourself the annoyance. Erika: Ok... here's another one you don't want to deal with... Slowking can be useful with its bulk and Psychic though. Janine: Psychic DESTROYS her, just like Confusion did against Koga. Brock: Surf wipes through his whole team, and he can't touch you with anything-- especially if you brought bro. Kabutop's Giga Drain is simply not a threat. Blaine: Um yeah... Slowking/bro walk through this one too. Blue: Slowking / Bro should have no problems taking everything down, except the Sunny Day / Solar Beam Exeggcutor. Unless, you're packing Fire Blast and you predict the Sunny Day like a boss. Red: Erm... Pikachu and Venusaur... ew... The Snorlax also has Amnesia... You have the advantage against Espeon, Charizard and Blastoise though, especially if you have Slowking. Even against Venusaur, there's a fair chance it is going to Sunny Day, so just go for the Psychic (or Fire blast); Slowking can shrug off a Giga Drain and go on the offensive regardless. __________________ "Hmmm... a name for this plan..."

Sep 25th, 2012, 9:35:49 PM	#7
Hemp Man Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 735 USA California	Does this go up to Lance, or up to Red? __________________ This is Bleach love!

Sep 25th, 2012, 11:23:41 PM	#11
Chou Toshio Hmmm... A name for the plan... Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,937 Sea Forest	Just use the abbreviated one I used for the OP. I would say Slowbro/King belong in High. Back tracking to get them is not that big a deal, and they're at a decent level, powerful, and fully evolved. __________________ "Hmmm... a name for this plan..."

Sep 25th, 2012, 11:33:09 PM	#12
atsync Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 790 Australia	Well I'm going to just keep redoing the entries I did from the old thread. Reserving Togepi, Chinchou, and Jynx. __________________ Pokemon Dream World Guide (UPLOADED) RBY In-game tiers Hidden Items in RBY

Sep 26th, 2012, 2:27:03 AM	#14
atsync Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 790 Australia	Here are Togepi and Chinchou. I'll do Jynx later. I'm still trying to decide whether I should do separate entries for GS Jynx and C Smoochum or not. I'm leaning in favour of having separate entries though. Togepi for Bottom tier. I've tried this a few times and it is just crap. Bad stats and movepool pretty much make it a useless battler most of the time. Togetic actually has a good Special Attack (by GSC standards) but doesn't have anything to use it with (bar a possible special typed Hidden Power) until it reaches SolarBeam, which comes after all the gyms in Johto are beating if I'm remembering right. You have to hatch it from an egg, and it evolves throw happiness so you have to baby this stupid thing to prevent it from fainting too much and lowering your happiness. Togepi Availability: Early, obtained from an egg after beating Falkner. Stats: Below Average Movepool: Below Average Gyms that it fares well against: It doesn’t really do well against any of them in Johto thanks to its poor movepool early on. Its best moves (Psychic and SolarBeam) come quite late. Admittedly, those are useful against Brock, Misty and Janine, but it’s just too little too late. Other info: This is junk. Poor stat distribution and a poor movepool make it fairly useless. The fact that it will be underleveled by the time it hatches (unless you actually stop your progress to wait for it to hatch) is lame and the way it evolves through happiness is yet another reason not to use this. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Chinchou for Mid tier. It's actually an ok Water type. Its stats are a bit on the low side but they are sufficient for in-game runs (STAB Surf is still STAB Surf even off of a mere 76 Special Attack) and the STAB Electric coverage gives it a niche over other Water types. Chinchou Availability: Midway through Johto, via fishing with a Good Rod. Stats: Below Average Movepool: Above Average Gyms that it fares well against: Wide coverage is helpful. Spark and Surf work well together. It can hold its own Chuck’s Poliwrath, Jasmine’s Steelix, and Pryce’s team, and remains useful against particular elite 4 Pokémon (Gyarados, Onix, Murkrow, Slowbro, Xatu, etc.). It can also take on Brock, Misty and Blaine. Other info: The Electric typing is a nice twist on what would otherwise be a generic Water type. Despite its middling stats, its STABs alone make it useful and it provides utility by learning all of the Water HMs. A set of Surf/Waterfall/Whirlpool/Spark is probably its best bet. __________________ Pokemon Dream World Guide (UPLOADED) RBY In-game tiers Hidden Items in RBY

Sep 26th, 2012, 5:28:26 AM	#15
*Mekkah* pfbwowbfobwobwobfwowbf Administrator** Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,835 Most of them are good	I recommend either only accepting short or long entries, it just kinda looks messy this way. =( For Jigglypuff, if you let your mom save your money for you, she actually buys a Moon Stone at some point, quite a while before Tohjo Falls. Of course the "problem" is that she will also waste a bunch of your money on dolls and stuff but you should have enough money anyway. __________________ onions videos cameras models steroids dinoturtlethings

Sep 26th, 2012, 7:43:30 AM	#16
Diana Fennekin the cutest Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,258	If I know if to make a short or long entry I'll repost my Paras and Spearow entries from the other thread if you'd like. I'm also doing an ingame run of Crystal now. Not technically reserving any of that but the team is Totodile, Growlithe (should have two entries because you get it way earlier in Crystal and have a possibility of a Fire Stone earlier), Corsola, Rattata, Nidoran-M, and Drowzee. Not technically reserving any of these right now but anything that's not written when I'm finished I'd be happy to write up. __________________ C&C work: 34 done, 2 partly done, finished 4th gen moveset errors Last edited by Diana; Sep 26th, 2012 at 8:16:31 AM. Reason: forgot Corsola lol

Sep 26th, 2012, 9:21:05 AM	#17
JSND Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 877 Indonesia	^ go ahead and reserve Totodile, my old post only goes until Lance Anyway... Tauros. __________________ I use Deoxys-D before it was cool Yet i still use Torterra in OU

Sep 30th, 2012, 11:49:28 PM	#19
Redew <@Redew> jellicent <@Redew> how hammered are you <&Jellicent> i am a hammer Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 358 Everybody's goin' to the party; have a real good time. Mentor	Added Togepi and Chinchou. Sorry about not posting here or in my other thread. Family things (and they might get worse, too.) __________________ GRAMMAR GOJO on loa Last edited by Redew; Oct 1st, 2012 at 4:44:59 PM. Reason: atsync knows best

Oct 1st, 2012, 4:27:15 AM	#20
Hemp Man Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 735 USA California	Chikorita Availability: Starter Pokemon Stats: The Chikorita family has fairly balanced stats. They have pretty good defenses, and their attack stats are not great but usable. Movepool: Chikorita’s level-up movepool is not the best offensively, only giving it Razor Leaf (which has been nerfed in Gen 2) and Body Slam. However, it does learn a ton of great support moves, such as Reflect, Light Screen, PoisonPowder, and Synthesis. It also can learn the always great Earthquake TM, but keep in mind that is a high-demand TM. Gyms that it fares well against: While Chikorita may struggle against the first two Johto gyms due to a weakness to Flying and Bug, it actually serves as one of the best checks to Whitney’s infamous Miltank due to Reflect + Synthesis. Chikorita hits another bumpy road with Morty’s ghosts, but fairs well against mid game gym leaders. Razor Leaf will deal good damage to Chuck’s Poliwrath, Jasmine’s Steelix, and Pryce’s Piloswine. Meganium can also set up a Light Screen in the face of Clair's Kingdra and take it on, but watch out for paralyze hax or SmokeScreen accuracy drops. When it comes to the Elite 4, Bruno is the main target. Onix is OHKO by Razor Leaf, and a Reflect helps keep Meganium gets by the Fighting moves. In Kanto, Razor Leaf allows Meganium to plow though Brock and Misty. Meganium also resists Electric and Grass, and can be a great help in the battles against LT Surge and Erika. In the battle against Red, Chikorita walls Pikachu and Venusaur, and with a Light Screen up it can take out Blastoise, Additional Comments: Chikorita is certainly an interesting starter. It struggles in many places, but its a good team supporter and can excel in some of the games harder match ups, such as Whitney and Red. One good early-game partner for Chikorita is Geodude. Geodude can help cover Chikorita's weakness to Flying, Bug, Poison, and Fire types, where as Chikorita can help cover Geodudes weakness to the Water and Grass types. __________________ This is Bleach love! Last edited by Hemp Man; Dec 16th, 2012 at 10:44:40 PM.

Oct 1st, 2012, 6:13:30 AM	#21
atsync Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 790 Australia	Sorry about this, but I'd like to withdraw my reservation for Jynx. I just don't have the time for it :( Also, if this is only going up to Lance, then some of the post-elite 4 pokemon need to be removed/ignored. Misdreavus, Murkrow, Houndour, Slugma, and Porygon for examples of these. Oh, and Kabuto and Omanyte aren't obtainable in GSC so you should remove those too! __________________ Pokemon Dream World Guide (UPLOADED) RBY In-game tiers Hidden Items in RBY

Dec 20th, 2012, 5:16:12 PM	#23
Redew <@Redew> jellicent <@Redew> how hammered are you <&Jellicent> i am a hammer Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 358 Everybody's goin' to the party; have a real good time. Mentor	Goodness; October 1st v.v /me kick me Sorry about that. Real life came up and I've just recently gotten a lot more free time, so I'm going to do this again! Everything is updated and such, etc. oh: <Jellicent> then i'll just lock his and you can bump yours <Redwind> okay edit: all reserved entries have been abolished as of now. if you want to get them again, post to say you want them. __________________ GRAMMAR GOJO on loa

Dec 21st, 2012, 3:50:31 AM	#24
browjenofer Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1	it cannot meaningfully be trained up because it badly needs coverage to score KOs.

Dec 21st, 2012, 4:48:40 AM	#25
x42bn6 Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 21	Nominating Totodile for top tier. Totodile Availability: Starter Stats: Above average Movepool: Good Gyms that it fares well against: Morty (Bite), Jasmine (Dig + Surf), most of Pryce's team (Surf), Clair (Ice Punch), Sabrina (if you still have Bite), Janine (Dig + Ice Punch), Brock (anything), Blaine (anything), Blue (hits everything bar Gyarados super-effectively) It's important to note that Totodile doesn't really lose to any gym leader. The only things in Johto that threaten it are Jasmine's Magnemites and one of Clair's Dragonairs, both of which are OHKOed by the appropriate coverage move; and it might struggle against Chuck's Poliwrath if it isn't a Feraligatr and/or doesn't have Dig/Return. Lance's Thunder Dragonite likewise falls into this category (hits super-effectively, but OHKOed by Ice Punch). Erika and Lt. Surge can beat Feraligatr, although it can still hit first (and possibly OHKO depending on level) with a super-effective move. Red's Pikachu and Venusaur could be threats depending on Feraligatr's level, and Blastoise and Snorlax could be a tedious slugfest. Other info: As suggested above, this moveset gives it excellent coverage, hitting pretty much everything neutrally (if not everything): Bite/Slash/Return Water Gun -> Surf Ice Punch Dig -> Earthquake As the gym coverage suggests, it perhaps only has slight issues with bulky waters and bulky grass types: Ampharos makes a great partner, with nifty Special bulk and Thunderpunch + Fire Punch coverage, in addition to the fact it levels up quicker than your starter to make up for its lack of power. In Crystal, you unfortunately don't have that bonus, but you can cover it with two others instead. While it is a shame that Surf and Ice Punch hit off its weaker Special Attack stat, it's not the end of the world and you can boost either with Mystic Water or Nevermeltice. It's also hard to argue against getting a STAB, base power 95 attack halfway through Johto. Totodile's moveset is also notable because it gets everything it needs at nice times. It gets Bite around Morty's gym, Surf when Water Gun starts to feel lacklustre, Ice Punch when the opposing starter becomes a real threat, and Dig when it starts to meet more Poison and Steel types. It's also notable for the fact that it's possible to easily solo the game with the above moveset. If you do solo the game in this way, the only real threats reduce to Red's Pikachu and Venusaur. This moveset also translates over to HG/SS (with Waterfall instead of Surf), although there are more threats and Karen's Umbreon is a fairly annoying speed bump in Elite Four rematches.