Balanced Hackmons

[V4Victini]

Originally Posted by Fat Imanalt

has anyone posted pointing out that eviolite chansey outclasses nonscarfed blissey now?

No because I like keeping secrets. But I guess its too late now.

[Arcticblast]

Blissey has the advantage of being able to switch into support Pokemon and use Lum Berry to eat Spore (A sleeping Chansey is a dead Chansey!). Chansey is a superior revenge killer, however.

[Imanalt]

a sleeping chansey isnt a dead chansey in a lot of cases, because you can often switch it into something such that they cant 3hko you... chansey has just absurdly high bulk lol

[verbatim]

Where there's Spore, there's usually Whirlwind/Dragon Tail.

[Maddenxo]

I have a passionate hatred for choice items this meta, just because diversity is essential. My team [unbeaten so far]:

Scizor @ Leftovers
Flash Fire
-Magic Coat
-U-Turn
-Toxic Spikes
-Stealth Rock

Such an awesome lead. Mirror coat deals with any deoxys that doesn't use quiver dance, once they're sleeping you're free to either set up (vs non-magic guard) or switch to Contrary Dialga. Flash fire means no weaknesses and often surprises opposition unless they trace it.

Giratina @ Leftovers
Magic Bounce
-Heart Swap
-Dragon Tail
-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin

Whilst it isn't often that people manage to set up vs this team, it's always good having a spinner. If you play scizor correctly then you should have 2 tspikes and some rocks whilst they have nothing, so just uturn out to this guy and dragon tail rape his entire team. Heart Swap there for any contrary users Blissey hasn't taken care of, also deals with Moody pokes.

Dialga @ Lum Berry
Contrary
-Draco Meteor
-Leaf Storm
-Substitute
-V-Crete

Best contrary user. Get the sub up (lum berry should deal with any status ect), V-Crete for the obvious speed boost initially, then just ruin everything with draco meteor. Leaf storm is for covering Groundon/Kyogre, who were previously problematic. Swept so many teams with this guy it's unreal.

Lugia @ Leftovers
Prankster
-Magic Coat
-Whirlwind
-Spikes
-Substitute

Everyone hates playing versus this guy. Genuinely the most annoying poke out there, with good reason. Magic Coat deals with all the status problems (requires good prediction though). Sub for immunity in case you happen to whirlwind into a contrary user, then spikes as an additional entry hazard in case they managed to spin the initial ones away and have a shedinja on their team.

Slaking @ Leftovers
Magic Bounce
-Sacred Fire
-Extreemespeed
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake

Standard slaking. Trick is to only SD once, otherwise if they have an imposterblissey you're pretty much screwed. I designed this set so that if it's taken, it can be walled by Heart Swap Giratina (SD EQ only does like 42%). Magic Bounce is a nice touch given deoxys often tries to spore this guy.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Imposter
-Protect
-Toxic
-Wish
-Will-o-wisp

Standard imposterbliss, ruins the life of anything using contrary.

[Arcticblast]

Maddenxo, I'd suggest running Aura Sphere over Leaf Storm on Dialga so you have something to hit Flash Fire Steel-types with without wasting Draco Meteor's paltry 8 PP. And on Blissey, Aromatherapy over one of the status moves is a great idea to remove the occasional status your team takes.

[Maddenxo]

Leaf Storm gets the x2 SpA from contrary though...if anything I was thinking psycho boost? Draco Meteor generally takes care of the (rare) flash fire steels anyway with 3x or 4x SpA boost.

Aromatherapy is a good idea though! Will put it in.

[Arcticblast]

To be honest, Blissey won't be using it too often, but if you have a chance (something behind a Sub that can't really hurt Blissey) it's pretty cool. Draco Meteor actually can't OHKO Careful Registeel at +1, which is... weird. Aura Sphere is a guaranteed KO at +4 though.

[zbabyovr9000]

Hey maddenxo, I would consider swapping out lefties on Scizor for a Lum Berry because you really just can't predict with magic coat that well. Also, while flash fire is a nice surprise, any magic bouncer can set up on you for free unless it happens to be something like a Celebi (which it won't be), and mold breaker will be more helpful for a mon who wants to get hazards up. And you need these hazards up - they are your only answer to Sturdinja.

Second, Lugia and Giratina might appreciate recovery moves over hazards, Scizor is there for a reason. Finally, I agree that Aura Sphere is a better choice on Dialga, Groudon and Kyogre don't enjoy taking a Draco meteor anyways.

Also, I would be wary of your reliance on Blissey to revenge kill; Jolly Illusion Belly Drum Slaking with good coverage can sweep your team if a) your Slaking is not Jolly or b) it wins the speed tie against your Slaking.

[verbatim]

Originally Posted by Fat Maddenxo

Scizor @ Leftovers
Flash Fire
-Magic Coat
-U-Turn
-Toxic Spikes
-Stealth Rock

Escavelier>Scizor. It fulfills the same role with better attack/bulk.

[Wobble]

Scizor is also much faster.

[verbatim]

That's irrelevant, everything else is faster than either of them.

[Wobble]

No. Scizor outspeeds Shuckle, Registeel, Ferrothorn, Blissey/Chansey, neutrally natured Metagross and Tyranitar, among other things.

[verbatim]

Scizor doesn't really benefit from outspending anything on that list. Also, sans Blissey/Chansey/Shuckle, everything on that list is used very infrequently.

[Wobble]

Considering he uses it as his lead I'm sure he's using it because it isn't outsped by the entire metagame.

[Imanalt]

it IS outsped by the entire lead metagame

[Arcticblast]

How about this:

 + ---- + ------------------ + ------ + ------- + 
 | 1    | Deoxys-Speed       | 1015   | 20.099% | Outspeeds Scizor
 | 2    | Blissey            | 357    |  7.069% | Imposter makes Speed irrelevant
 | 3    | Giratina           | 217    |  4.297% | Outspeeds Scizor
 | 4    | Lugia              | 202    |  4.000% | Outspeeds Scizor
 | 5    | Shuckle            | 194    |  3.842% | Scizor isn't doing shit against Shuckle
 | 6    | Shedinja           | 186    |  3.683% | Scizor isn't doing shit against Shedinja
 | 7    | Dialga             | 178    |  3.525% | Outspeeds Scizor
 | 8    | Groudon            | 172    |  3.406% | Outspeeds Scizor
 | 9    | Arceus             | 164    |  3.248% | Outspeeds Scizor
 | 10   | Deoxys-Attack      | 156    |  3.089% | Outspeeds Scizor
 | 11   | Slaking            | 155    |  3.069% | Outspeeds Scizor
 | 12   | Deoxys-Defense     | 109    |  2.158% | Outspeeds Scizor
 | 13   | Kyurem-White       | 100    |  1.980% | You get the god damn point
 | 14   | Darkrai            | 92     |  1.822% |
 | 15   | Mewtwo             | 87     |  1.723% |
 | 16   | Kyurem-Black       | 77     |  1.525% |
 | 17   | Regigigas          | 59     |  1.168% |
 | 18   | Reshiram           | 56     |  1.109% |
 | 19   | Chansey            | 53     |  1.050% | Also usually Imposter
 | 20   | Latios             | 53     |  1.050% |

On a different note, what Grass-types have people used in BH? I've used Ferrothorn, Arceus-Grass and Shaymin. Ferrothorn is a tanking bastard here moreso than OU. Arceus-Grass is okay but is very restricted. With Icicle Plate Judgement, Shaymin makes a mean (although outclassed by Gengar) Blissey lure. Anybody else using the best type ever?

[Imanalt]

icicle plate judgment skymin cant lure chansey cause it only is 50/50 to 2HKO WITH JUDGMENT (holy god chansey is insane)

honestly though grass types dont seem to have much use in bh

[Gerard]

...
If you have a lot of problems with Chansey then use Secret Sword, Unaware Chansey it's an incredible special wall, no doubts, I've been using her for months and she stops cold most Contrary abusers, but Secret Sword will really do something unless she has acquired a boost (preferably Cotton Guard), although, again it's far from a final answer, when you can survive Rayquaza's Superpower, you can survive anything

Ps: Who the funk uses Imposter Chansey? What for?

[lokt]

Imposter chansey has eviolite, which supposedly works after the transformation. I agree, Unaware chansey is really good, I've been using it on my rain stall team. Stall seems to be very effective, now that shadow tag is gone.

[Arcticblast]

I've been using this set for a while, and call me crazy, but it works pretty damn well.

Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry
Trait: No Guard
Timid Nature
- Magic Coat
- Skill Swap
- Taunt
- Magma Storm

Similar to Skill Swap Regirock, except you essentially have two abilities if the opponent stays in against you since No Guard affects the entire field in Singles. Magic Guard and Taunt are pretty standard and useful, and Magma Storm not only roasts Flash Fire Steels (besides Escavalier...) but also allows another Pokemon to come in safely.

[Imanalt]

Originally Posted by Fat Gerard

...
If you have a lot of problems with Chansey then use Secret Sword, Unaware Chansey it's an incredible special wall, no doubts, I've been using her for months and she stops cold most Contrary abusers, but Secret Sword will really do something unless she has acquired a boost (preferably Cotton Guard), although, again it's far from a final answer, when you can survive Rayquaza's Superpower, you can survive anything

Ps: Who the funk uses Imposter Chansey? What for?

imposter chansey outclasses nonscarfed imposter blissey because eviolite keeps working after transforming, giving you about 5x the bulk of your opponent

[The_Eevee_General]

Ban 6 Imposter Bliss teams!!1

[Arcticblast]

Sixposter teams are stopped cold by any Substitute user, any Illusion user, and Ghost Plate Judgement Gengar. In addition, having the ability to counter your own Pokemon greatly helps (actually helps a LOT even against a single Blissey). Admittedly they're tough to beat (if you can't beat your own team, how can you beat other teams?) but nowhere near broken.

[The_Eevee_General]

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

Sixposter teams are stopped cold by any Substitute user, any Illusion user, and Ghost Plate Judgement Gengar. In addition, having the ability to counter your own Pokemon greatly helps (actually helps a LOT even against a single Blissey). Admittedly they're tough to beat (if you can't beat your own team, how can you beat other teams?) but nowhere near broken.

I think I've only lost once to the five or so Bliss teams I've faced. I actually posted two videos in the BH Dark Horse thread on it. It was more or less a joke since Shadow Tag was just banned. They're just so damn annoying.