Accidental Sand team

pidj · Oct 5th, 2012, 5:23:05 PM

This team has fared OK on PS but I know that I have several weaknesses here so I would like help in plugging the holes! I've got the team to around the 1450 mark on PS but I'm sure I can keep the backbone and make it even better.

Team Building Process

I've wanted to try a SD Lucario for a little while so this was the starting point.

I like my teams to have something a bit different in them if possible and I'd struggled with Sigilyph before so I thought why not?

I started to notice a weakness to Terrakion opening up so I added Jellicent. And to complete a defensive core with an electric resistance I added Ferrothorn.

I was still wary of the electric weakness and wanted a spinner so I added Donphan. And to round the team out I started with a CB 'Nite.

After some testing Donphan and CB 'Nite weren't working out so I changed them for Hippowdon and Moxie Salamence and so I had my unexpected Sand team.

In-Depth (Changes in BOLD)

Lucario @Leftovers
Trait: Justified
EV's: 252Atk/4Sp.D/252Spe
Adamant nature
- Swords Dance
- ExtremeSpeed
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch

So, this is the SD Lucario, the poke the team was made for and to be honest I've been quite unimpressed with it. I started with Inner Focus as it's ability but changed to Justified when I realised that I would attract dark moves aimed at Sigilyph and Jellicent. I chose BP over Crunch to offer me an extra priority for threats like Gengar. My team is quite slow in general so I thought an extra priority move would be good. However, I'm not finding many chances to switch in and get an SD boost so I'm open to changing Lucario.

Sigilyph @Flame Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EV's: 252HP/52Def/4Sp.A/200Sp.D
Calm nature
- Cosmic Power
- Psycho Shift
- Roost
- Stored Power

I faced one of these a little while ago and found it to be an absolute pain but it was really effective and I thought it would be fun. It is fun. The moveset and item are standard and I really enjoy Psycho shifting a burn to a fighting type. Breloom is a particular favourite here. As for the EV's and nature I went with more Sp.D due to burns affecting physical attackers. So far it's worked well but it really needs good support from the rest of the team to be effective. Obvious issues are fire types and Guts pokemon.

Jellicent @Leftovers
Trait Water Absorb
EV's: 252HP/252Def/4Sp.A
Bold nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam

Jellicent was added to be my physical wall and counter to Terrakion (and I've yet to face one!). The EV's and nature are for that reason. Water Absorb just to add the immunity. Scald assists Sigilyph burning things and Recover is obvious. IB and SB are fillers really and I've wondered if I would be better off with Taunt (and maybe toxic over them). Jellicent also acts as a nice spin blocker for when I have rocks up.

Ferrothorn @Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EV's: 252HP/60Def/196Sp.D
Careful nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Protect

I think that Ferrothorn has good synergy with Sigilyph and Jellicent and allows me to get some rocks down. If the opponent is burnt and I get off a leech seed I can really stall out the opponent. Power Whip is my one SE move on this team against water typs. (I think I could do with looking at this!). I've invested slightly more in SP.D than the standard set suggests because of the intention to burn most things. Iron Barbs also helps with the stalling. Would Spikes be better over SR, or maybe both?

Hippowdon @Leftovers
Trait: Sand stream
EV's: 252HP/4Atk/252Def
Impish nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

My sand starter and the unintentional reason for the sand team. I've never made a sand team before so this guy is starting new territory for me! I originally had Donphan here as a spinner but it wasn't doing much so I switched as I noticed most of the team were immune to sand so I could get extra residual damage and I chose Hippowdon for the electric immunity and I like that it can phaze. I could put rocks on here instead of Ferrothorn and put spikes on Ferrothorn instead perhaps. Hippowdon also acts as a nice extra phys defensive wall. Tyranitar may well be the superior option here due to the fact that I struggle to KO bulky Psychic types (looking at you Reuniclus and Cresselia).

Salamence @Expert Belt
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252Spd/252Atk/4SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge

I started with a CB-Nite and didn't like being locked in to moves. I'd tried a Scarf Moxie-Mence in the past and couldn't get on with that either but I realised for this team that Moxie could help a lot. I threw EB belt on as the item and it works really well at bluffing the choice item. I can KO a Ferrothorn/Forretress with Fire Blast and then when the opponent throws out their next poke I can just hit hard with the necessary move and be +2 very quickly. I've been quite pleased with Mence and I like the coverage.

Threats
- Bulky Psychic types can be difficult and Reuniclus is a real pain because it doesn't take residual damage.
- Sun teams. In theory I think they will be difficult but the only one I had beat me because it had a Cresselia rather than it's normal sun abusers.
- Rain teams. If I lsoe the weather war Hurricanes, Thunders and boosted water moves really hurt.
- Hazards. My team has a lot of set up bait and although I don't miss Donphan I think I do miss a spinner because aside from Sigilyph I can end up taking a lot of damage.
- Terrakion - if Jellicent is down my team could be blitzed by one.
- Genesect - or more to the point a Rock Polish one. Aside from Mence it can outspeed my entire team before any boosts and it's coverage moves are just really bad news for me.
- Nidoking. Same reasons as Genesect. The coverage moves combined with my slow team really cause me issues.
-Honorable mention: Volt-turn teams could be difficult but between Ferrothorn and Hippowdon I'd like to think I can cover that.

Importable

...

Joeyboy · Oct 5th, 2012, 5:38:31 PM

Cool team dude!

First thing I recommend is putting Stealth Rock over Ice Fang on Hippowdon. In turn I believe you should replace Stealth Rock with Spikes on Ferrothorn. This gives you way more passive damage, plus you already have a very competent spinblocker in Jellicent. Hippowdon provides loads of free turns, one of which can be used to lay Stealth Rocks. Ferrothorn also provides free turns and can now utilize them even better by laying multiple layers of Spikes. Hippowdon can also use Whirlwind over Roar. Its a super small change but you get the benefit of phazing out Mr. Mimes on BP teams(and theres no downside!) Hippowdon's phazing also becomes much more potent as you lay more and more entry hazards; all of which will stay put due to Jellicent's awesome typing!

Onto Jellicent, instead of your current moveset I suggest running Will-o-Wisp over Scald, and Taunt over Ice Beam. Shadow Ball gives you a STAB attack, and one that hits Starmie for Super Effective damage at that! Taunt and Will-o-Wisp allow Jellicent to act as a second stallbreaker; it also can set the stage for Sigilyph, by helping to spread the much appreciated burn status.

My last suggestion is to change up your Salamence set, try this one out:

...

Its a pretty slight change, but one that I think will really help. The biggest issue with Fire Blast is that missing it against Skarmory or Ferrothorn not only gives them a free layer of Spikes that turn but also alerts them to the fact that you aren't choiced at all. So with Fire Gem Flamethrower you better guarantee the luring and destruction of those troublesome Steel-type pokemon.

Good Luck!

ganj4lF · Oct 5th, 2012, 5:54:37 PM

Wait, your SD Lucario set needs some serious reworking. Investing into bulk is counterproductive with such a frail poke, since you'll be outsped by many nasty things, Magnezone, Max speed Adamant Scizor, and max speed Heatran to name a few. Also, running Lefties means your attacks won't deal enough damage if you don't find an opportunity to SD up, which as you noticed may or may not happen. So, to improve your set, a good idea is to move those HP EVs into Speed and give Luke a more offensively oriented item, like Life Orb. The set would look like this:

...

This thing can revenge much more pokes than your set since LO boosts Extremespeed and BP to a respectable power. Also, after a SD, it just shatters common walls, Skarmory is OHKO'd after Sturdy is broken, same for Bronzong and Forretress, and it doesn't fall miserably to Offensive Heatran, Magnezones and such things.

Good luck for your team!

pidj · Oct 5th, 2012, 6:03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Joeyboy

Cool team dude!

First thing I recommend is putting Stealth Rock over Ice Fang on Hippowdon. In turn I believe you should replace Stealth Rock with Spikes on Ferrothorn. This gives you way more passive damage, plus you already have a very competent spinblocker in Jellicent. Hippowdon provides loads of free turns, one of which can be used to lay Stealth Rocks. Ferrothorn also provides free turns and can now utilize them even better by laying multiple layers of Spikes. Hippowdon can also use Whirlwind over Roar. Its a super small change but you get the benefit of phazing out Mr. Mimes on BP teams(and theres no downside!) Hippowdon's phazing also becomes much more potent as you lay more and more entry hazards; all of which will stay put due to Jellicent's awesome typing!

Onto Jellicent, instead of your current moveset I suggest running Will-o-Wisp over Scald, and Taunt over Ice Beam. Shadow Ball gives you a STAB attack, and one that hits Starmie for Super Effective damage at that! Taunt and Will-o-Wisp allow Jellicent to act as a second stallbreaker; it also can set the stage for Sigilyph, by helping to spread the much appreciated burn status.

My last suggestion is to change up your Salamence set, try this one out:

...

Its a pretty slight change, but one that I think will really help. The biggest issue with Fire Blast is that missing it against Skarmory or Ferrothorn not only gives them a free layer of Spikes that turn but also alerts them to the fact that you aren't choiced at all. So with Fire Gem Flamethrower you better guarantee the luring and destruction of those troublesome Steel-type pokemon.

Good Luck!

Thanks for the rate. I think I will definitely try rocks on Hippowdon and spikes on Ferrothorn.

I'll run the calcs on flamethrower to see if the fire gem is needed but if the calcs work out then I'd definitely prefer to run flamethrower for the extra accuracy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ganj4lF

Wait, your SD Lucario set needs some serious reworking. Investing into bulk is counterproductive with such a frail poke, since you'll be outsped by many nasty things, Magnezone, Max speed Adamant Scizor, and max speed Heatran to name a few. Also, running Lefties means your attacks won't deal enough damage if you don't find an opportunity to SD up, which as you noticed may or may not happen. So, to improve your set, a good idea is to move those HP EVs into Speed and give Luke a more offensively oriented item, like Life Orb. The set would look like this:

...

This thing can revenge much more pokes than your set since LO boosts Extremespeed and BP to a respectable power. Also, after a SD, it just shatters common walls, Skarmory is OHKO'd after Sturdy is broken, same for Bronzong and Forretress, and it doesn't fall miserably to Offensive Heatran, Magnezones and such things.

Good luck for your team!

Good spot on the Lucario. I went with suggested EVs as given by PS but that will be a really important change. I'm worried about using LO on Lucario though because of the aforementioned frailty.

Oct 5th, 2012, 5:23:05 PM	#1
pidj Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 16	Accidental Sand team This team has fared OK on PS but I know that I have several weaknesses here so I would like help in plugging the holes! I've got the team to around the 1450 mark on PS but I'm sure I can keep the backbone and make it even better. Team Building Process I've wanted to try a SD Lucario for a little while so this was the starting point. I like my teams to have something a bit different in them if possible and I'd struggled with Sigilyph before so I thought why not? I started to notice a weakness to Terrakion opening up so I added Jellicent. And to complete a defensive core with an electric resistance I added Ferrothorn. I was still wary of the electric weakness and wanted a spinner so I added Donphan. And to round the team out I started with a CB 'Nite. After some testing Donphan and CB 'Nite weren't working out so I changed them for Hippowdon and Moxie Salamence and so I had my unexpected Sand team. In-Depth (Changes in BOLD) Lucario @Leftovers Trait: Justified EV's: 252Atk/4Sp.D/252Spe Adamant nature - Swords Dance - ExtremeSpeed - Close Combat - Bullet Punch So, this is the SD Lucario, the poke the team was made for and to be honest I've been quite unimpressed with it. I started with Inner Focus as it's ability but changed to Justified when I realised that I would attract dark moves aimed at Sigilyph and Jellicent. I chose BP over Crunch to offer me an extra priority for threats like Gengar. My team is quite slow in general so I thought an extra priority move would be good. However, I'm not finding many chances to switch in and get an SD boost so I'm open to changing Lucario. Sigilyph @Flame Orb Trait: Magic Guard EV's: 252HP/52Def/4Sp.A/200Sp.D Calm nature - Cosmic Power - Psycho Shift - Roost - Stored Power I faced one of these a little while ago and found it to be an absolute pain but it was really effective and I thought it would be fun. It is fun. The moveset and item are standard and I really enjoy Psycho shifting a burn to a fighting type. Breloom is a particular favourite here. As for the EV's and nature I went with more Sp.D due to burns affecting physical attackers. So far it's worked well but it really needs good support from the rest of the team to be effective. Obvious issues are fire types and Guts pokemon. Jellicent @Leftovers Trait Water Absorb EV's: 252HP/252Def/4Sp.A Bold nature - Scald - Recover - Shadow Ball - Ice Beam Jellicent was added to be my physical wall and counter to Terrakion (and I've yet to face one!). The EV's and nature are for that reason. Water Absorb just to add the immunity. Scald assists Sigilyph burning things and Recover is obvious. IB and SB are fillers really and I've wondered if I would be better off with Taunt (and maybe toxic over them). Jellicent also acts as a nice spin blocker for when I have rocks up. Ferrothorn @Leftovers Trait: Iron Barbs EV's: 252HP/60Def/196Sp.D Careful nature - Spikes - Leech Seed - Power Whip - Protect I think that Ferrothorn has good synergy with Sigilyph and Jellicent and allows me to get some rocks down. If the opponent is burnt and I get off a leech seed I can really stall out the opponent. Power Whip is my one SE move on this team against water typs. (I think I could do with looking at this!). I've invested slightly more in SP.D than the standard set suggests because of the intention to burn most things. Iron Barbs also helps with the stalling. Would Spikes be better over SR, or maybe both? Hippowdon @Leftovers Trait: Sand stream EV's: 252HP/4Atk/252Def Impish nature - Earthquake - Slack Off - Whirlwind - Stealth Rock My sand starter and the unintentional reason for the sand team. I've never made a sand team before so this guy is starting new territory for me! I originally had Donphan here as a spinner but it wasn't doing much so I switched as I noticed most of the team were immune to sand so I could get extra residual damage and I chose Hippowdon for the electric immunity and I like that it can phaze. I could put rocks on here instead of Ferrothorn and put spikes on Ferrothorn instead perhaps. Hippowdon also acts as a nice extra phys defensive wall. Tyranitar may well be the superior option here due to the fact that I struggle to KO bulky Psychic types (looking at you Reuniclus and Cresselia). Salamence @Expert Belt Trait: Moxie EVs: 252Spd/252Atk/4SAtk Hasty Nature - Earthquake - Outrage - Fire Blast - Stone Edge I started with a CB-Nite and didn't like being locked in to moves. I'd tried a Scarf Moxie-Mence in the past and couldn't get on with that either but I realised for this team that Moxie could help a lot. I threw EB belt on as the item and it works really well at bluffing the choice item. I can KO a Ferrothorn/Forretress with Fire Blast and then when the opponent throws out their next poke I can just hit hard with the necessary move and be +2 very quickly. I've been quite pleased with Mence and I like the coverage. Threats - Bulky Psychic types can be difficult and Reuniclus is a real pain because it doesn't take residual damage. - Sun teams. In theory I think they will be difficult but the only one I had beat me because it had a Cresselia rather than it's normal sun abusers. - Rain teams. If I lsoe the weather war Hurricanes, Thunders and boosted water moves really hurt. - Hazards. My team has a lot of set up bait and although I don't miss Donphan I think I do miss a spinner because aside from Sigilyph I can end up taking a lot of damage. - Terrakion - if Jellicent is down my team could be blitzed by one. - Genesect - or more to the point a Rock Polish one. Aside from Mence it can outspeed my entire team before any boosts and it's coverage moves are just really bad news for me. - Nidoking. Same reasons as Genesect. The coverage moves combined with my slow team really cause me issues. -Honorable mention: Volt-turn teams could be difficult but between Ferrothorn and Hippowdon I'd like to think I can cover that. Importable ... Sigilyph @ Flame Orb Trait: Magic Guard EVs: 200 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 52 Def Calm Nature - Cosmic Power - Psycho Shift - Roost - Stored Power Lucario @ Leftovers Trait: Justified EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef Adamant Nature - Close Combat - Bullet Punch - ExtremeSpeed - Swords Dance Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Water Absorb EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk Bold Nature - Scald - Recover - Shadow Ball - Ice Beam Ferrothorn @ Leftovers Trait: Iron Barbs EVs: 252 HP / 196 SDef / 60 Def Careful Nature - Leech Seed - Stealth Rock - Power Whip - Protect Hippowdon @ Leftovers Trait: Sand Stream EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk Impish Nature - Earthquake - Slack Off - Roar - Ice Fang Salamence (F) @ Expert Belt Trait: Moxie EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk Hasty Nature - Earthquake - Outrage - Fire Blast - Stone Edge Last edited by pidj; Oct 6th, 2012 at 3:08:28 AM.

Oct 5th, 2012, 5:38:31 PM	#2
Joeyboy Kent had a dog Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,230 Art by Bummer Mentor	Cool team dude! First thing I recommend is putting Stealth Rock over Ice Fang on Hippowdon. In turn I believe you should replace Stealth Rock with Spikes on Ferrothorn. This gives you way more passive damage, plus you already have a very competent spinblocker in Jellicent. Hippowdon provides loads of free turns, one of which can be used to lay Stealth Rocks. Ferrothorn also provides free turns and can now utilize them even better by laying multiple layers of Spikes. Hippowdon can also use Whirlwind over Roar. Its a super small change but you get the benefit of phazing out Mr. Mimes on BP teams(and theres no downside!) Hippowdon's phazing also becomes much more potent as you lay more and more entry hazards; all of which will stay put due to Jellicent's awesome typing! Onto Jellicent, instead of your current moveset I suggest running Will-o-Wisp over Scald, and Taunt over Ice Beam. Shadow Ball gives you a STAB attack, and one that hits Starmie for Super Effective damage at that! Taunt and Will-o-Wisp allow Jellicent to act as a second stallbreaker; it also can set the stage for Sigilyph, by helping to spread the much appreciated burn status. My last suggestion is to change up your Salamence set, try this one out: ... Salamence (F) @ Fire Gem Trait: Moxie EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Dragon Claw - Outrage - Flamethrower - Earthquake Its a pretty slight change, but one that I think will really help. The biggest issue with Fire Blast is that missing it against Skarmory or Ferrothorn not only gives them a free layer of Spikes that turn but also alerts them to the fact that you aren't choiced at all. So with Fire Gem Flamethrower you better guarantee the luring and destruction of those troublesome Steel-type pokemon. Good Luck! __________________ VM for an OU Rate \| Latest OU Mini-Tour \| Smog Work Last edited by Joeyboy; Oct 5th, 2012 at 11:32:54 PM.

Oct 5th, 2012, 5:54:37 PM	#3
ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science! Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 691 Italy	Wait, your SD Lucario set needs some serious reworking. Investing into bulk is counterproductive with such a frail poke, since you'll be outsped by many nasty things, Magnezone, Max speed Adamant Scizor, and max speed Heatran to name a few. Also, running Lefties means your attacks won't deal enough damage if you don't find an opportunity to SD up, which as you noticed may or may not happen. So, to improve your set, a good idea is to move those HP EVs into Speed and give Luke a more offensively oriented item, like Life Orb. The set would look like this: ... Lucario @ Life Orb Justified 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant - Swords Dance - Close Combat - Extremespeed - Crunch / Ice Punch / Bullet Punch This thing can revenge much more pokes than your set since LO boosts Extremespeed and BP to a respectable power. Also, after a SD, it just shatters common walls, Skarmory is OHKO'd after Sturdy is broken, same for Bronzong and Forretress, and it doesn't fall miserably to Offensive Heatran, Magnezones and such things. Good luck for your team! __________________ Counter that Pokemon project: Mk III (over) & Warstory \| Mk IV (running) RMTs: The HOutsiders (also the other ones if anyone likes lurking my old posts) Take a look at this before starting an argument Not accepting rating requests anymore. Sorry!