Ditto

TrollFreak · Jul 7th, 2012, 3:33:49 AM

48 HP / 48 Atk / 48 Def / 48 SpA / 48 SpD / 48 Spe

Well, when you think of Ditto, you think of what is arguably the best revenge killer in Pokemon. Thanks to Imposter, it copies the stats boosts of the Pokemon it transforms into, meaning that boosting may not be safe anymore. While it can't sweep a team outright, it is still very viable in Ubers. It can even copy into something like Forry or Ferro and set up entry hazards, meaning that having a Pokemon that has Stealth Rock on a team isn't even necessary anymore. Change its IVs to get a Hidden Power, can it handles that as well. While Ditto may not be broken enough to be banned in OU, can it still have an effect on the Ubers metagame. Is there a method on stopping Ditto? Will this blob effect how teams are now made? Discuss anything you want but remember to always enjoy the discussion! (so long as they're in the Uber rules)

[SET] (Credit to Harsha)
~ Transform
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Imposter
nature: Relaxed
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def

This is Ditto's best, and only, set in the Uber metagame. With Imposter, Ditto automatically transforms into the opponent upon being sent into battle. Ditto has a bit of a four-moveslot syndrome, so choosing the correct move is imperative... Well, not really. If anything, Ditto has a one-moveslot syndrome. In fact, the only reason Ditto has a move is because without it, one would not be able to use Ditto. Still, Transform adds nothing to Ditto's utility, as Imposter accomplishes what Ditto would already do with Transform, though Transform does not copy stat boosts and wastes a turn.

Ditto should only be sent out against Pokemon that one wants to revenge kill, as that is Ditto's most effective role. This holds especially true against setup sweepers that have already acquired multiple boosts, as it simply makes Ditto more deadly. However, as always, one should never send Ditto out against an opponent that has a Substitute up, as Ditto cannot transform into a Pokemon behind a Substitute and will simply become dead weight.

Ditto's EVs are nearly useless in all situations except the very rare case where one's opponent sends Ditto out on the same turn that one's own Ditto is sent out. In this case, neither Ditto will transform, and a stall war will ensue. Thus, one wants to have the slower Ditto, as it will use Struggle after the opponent receives recoil damage, giving it an advantage. However, Ditto copies the stats of any other Pokemon that it transforms into, so the EVs serve no further purpose. Ditto does not, however, copy the opponent's IVs, so one should make sure that Ditto's IVs are set for the Hidden Power of choice. Using 30 Attack and 30 Defense IVs gives Ditto Hidden Power Ice, a good move for all-around coverage. 30 Atk, SpA, and Spe IVs can be used for Fire, as it hits Ferrothorn, Forry, and Skarm.

Ditto is a unique Pokemon, so it is only natural that it should be used differently than other Pokemon. Ditto should absolutely never be used as a lead or sent out to sponge a hit; these simply ruin its purpose. Instead, Ditto can be used to take on setup sweepers after they nab a KO, or simply revenge kill opposing threats. This puts Ditto users in a dilemma: what move should be used? As a general rule of thumb, Ditto should use a move that will allow it to stay in and do as much damage as possible. However, should Ditto be presented with an immediate threat that must be taken out, using the appropriate move and switching out will usually suffice.

Ditto is also useful for scouting opponents' movesets, as it copies every move. For example, sending Ditto out against Deoxys-S seems like a bad idea for the most part, but this actually allows you to learn whether or not Deoxys-S is an offensive variant or not. Similarly, one can scout setup sweepers in order to react appropriately and wall them, or to scout versatile Pokemon to learn how to stop them.

EternalNewbie · Jul 9th, 2012, 6:59:15 PM

As a revenge killer? I suppose so... but given the turn it takes to transform, the opponent could switch to the Pokemon in their party that's easiest to counter (say, I had him copy Ho-Oh and then switch to Kyogre immediatly afterwards) and then just tear it to pieces.

Haruno · Jul 9th, 2012, 7:22:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat EternalNewbie

As a revenge killer? I suppose so... but given the turn it takes to transform, the opponent could switch to the Pokemon in their party that's easiest to counter (say, I had him copy Ho-Oh and then switch to Kyogre immediatly afterwards) and then just tear it to pieces.

It automatically transforms into the opponents pokemon the moment it's sent out. So the move transform isn't even needed anymore

firecape · Jul 9th, 2012, 7:38:30 PM

Quote:

Ditto should only be sent out against Pokemon that one wants to revenge kill

Not necessarily. For instance, if one is using Ditto against a team with say Forretress but no spinblocker, Ditto can switch in on Forry and Rapid Spin away all the hazards (JIbaku is yelling at me cuz it gets more hazards but I'm talking about something like getting rid of SR that a dialga set up earlier because Forry rarely carries all 3 formes of hazards by itself). It could also lay down some hazards of your own. You could also switch into Darkrai (after it has slept something) and use its Dark Void to put something on your opponent's team out of commission. It is mainly a revenge killer, but there's still some room for creativity!

Another important thing to note that when using Ditto you dont get the Soul Dew boost from Latios/Latias if you decide to switch into them. Also, your Judgment will always be Normal if you copy Arceus, unless for some reason you are using a plate on your Ditto o_O.

Double Electric · Aug 21st, 2012, 4:45:31 PM

I will say that Scarf Ditto is rather ineffective against Calm Mind Arceus formes (and many other Calm Minders such as Manaphy), since they can recover health, and Ditto will usually be stuck using a non-STAB move repeatedly in an attempt to critical hit. It's also likely to sustain a lot of damage in the process of revenge killing Mewtwo, since Shadow Ball isn't the standard these days.

mtr · Aug 22nd, 2012, 5:23:55 PM

That's a glitch though, Ditto should transform into whatever type Arceus is, or at least it does going by cartridge mechanics.

Tbh it really only matters in the case of Ghost, Dragon, and maybe Normal Arceus.

Nyktos · Aug 22nd, 2012, 7:33:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat mtr

That's a glitch though, Ditto should transform into whatever type Arceus is, or at least it does going by cartridge mechanics.

It does transform into whatever type Arceus is. However, Judgment's type is based on the type of the plate, not the user's type.

lousy918 · Aug 23rd, 2012, 6:22:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat TrollFreak

Still, Transform adds nothing to Ditto's utility, as Imposter accomplishes what Ditto would already do with Transform, though Transform does not copy stat boosts and wastes a turn.

Transform does copy stat boosts.

TrollFreak · Aug 23rd, 2012, 6:51:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat lousy918

Transform does copy stat boosts.

Imposter Copies stats, not the move Transform

UltiMario · Aug 23rd, 2012, 5:03:44 PM

Transform has always copied stats and boosts. All Impostor does is use Transform when Ditto switches in. The Mechanics are identical.

TrollFreak · Aug 23rd, 2012, 5:19:35 PM

O my bad then

Anywho, has anyone thought of Ditto as a way to check SmashPass? Since it copies the stats boosts from the Pokemon(say, Dialga), you could use said boosts and tear a team to shreds. Beens working on PS, tho PS ladder is a bit shaky skillwise to say the least

lousy918 · Aug 25th, 2012, 8:55:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat TrollFreak

O my bad then

Anywho, has anyone thought of Ditto as a way to check SmashPass? Since it copies the stats boosts from the Pokemon(say, Dialga), you could use said boosts and tear a team to shreds. Beens working on PS, tho PS ladder is a bit shaky skillwise to say the least

Yeah it's actually the most reliable method after the pass has gone through since just about every Dialga carries Lum now.

Damo · Sep 25th, 2012, 6:36:48 PM

My ghost arceus always lures out ditto after a few boosts and since the only move it knows that can hit a ghost is shadow force, I just laugh as my slower arceus creams ditto. Happens nearly every time I see ditto.

BocciasBattles · Sep 29th, 2012, 3:41:08 PM

Personally I think ditto has done what no pokemon has done before: had the ability to do it's job exceptionally well in all tiers, with certain flaws like it's hp and the fact that it is choice locked into a move (unless you use a rare life orb variant), prevent it from being banned. Overall I think it is hugely effective in any tier you use it in, and only really falls short when it copies the stats of a wall rather than a sweeper. Also priority is a great way to counter ditto that also makes it very balanced and usable, so yeah, Rock On Ditto!

Vatii · Oct 7th, 2012, 7:04:36 PM

Ditto is a bit of an oddball. I suppose it always has been really. From back in the anime when it would awkwardly turn into things but still have those damn beady eyes to stare at you with. Its role in Uber's is basically the same, it turns into you but turns the whole situation really awkward. And I am not just saying that as in you basically have the pokemon equivalent of wearing the same dress to the dance, I mean as in your stat boosts. There is nothing that a boosted pokemon will fear more then a ditto to come in a ruin its day and the rest of the battle. But there is a fatal flaw to ditto if it is scarfed, you can tell what move it is going to use and swap.
Take for example my Dragon Dance Rayquaza, I get to +1 attack and +1 speed and I'm thinking I am about to have a really good time, then here comes Ditto! Well that's just annoying. My opponent smiles to him/herself and thinks that they have ruined me. Well there is a problem with their plan. The only move in my set that will hurt Rayquaza is Outrage. And I have a steel type. So I just swap to Genosect and tank an outrage only to counter the next turn with choice speced Ice Beam because I am faster. So he really didn't accomplish anything.

The point I am trying to make is that Ditto, while at times a great choice to stop a boosted sweeper, should be used with caution. You should ask yourself very carefully what moveset you think the opponent has, if they really only have one move that you could use against them think about this. They know that too. They don't have to guess about your moves and how to swap, they see the set right in front of them. So try and use some prediction when using ditto, or you may just find it failing against intelligent foes.

Jul 7th, 2012, 3:33:49 AM	#1
TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,246 New York born, New York proud	Ditto 48 HP / 48 Atk / 48 Def / 48 SpA / 48 SpD / 48 Spe Well, when you think of Ditto, you think of what is arguably the best revenge killer in Pokemon. Thanks to Imposter, it copies the stats boosts of the Pokemon it transforms into, meaning that boosting may not be safe anymore. While it can't sweep a team outright, it is still very viable in Ubers. It can even copy into something like Forry or Ferro and set up entry hazards, meaning that having a Pokemon that has Stealth Rock on a team isn't even necessary anymore. Change its IVs to get a Hidden Power, can it handles that as well. While Ditto may not be broken enough to be banned in OU, can it still have an effect on the Ubers metagame. Is there a method on stopping Ditto? Will this blob effect how teams are now made? Discuss anything you want but remember to always enjoy the discussion! (so long as they're in the Uber rules) [SET] (Credit to Harsha) ~ Transform item: Choice Scarf ability: Imposter nature: Relaxed evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def This is Ditto's best, and only, set in the Uber metagame. With Imposter, Ditto automatically transforms into the opponent upon being sent into battle. Ditto has a bit of a four-moveslot syndrome, so choosing the correct move is imperative... Well, not really. If anything, Ditto has a one-moveslot syndrome. In fact, the only reason Ditto has a move is because without it, one would not be able to use Ditto. Still, Transform adds nothing to Ditto's utility, as Imposter accomplishes what Ditto would already do with Transform, though Transform does not copy stat boosts and wastes a turn. Ditto should only be sent out against Pokemon that one wants to revenge kill, as that is Ditto's most effective role. This holds especially true against setup sweepers that have already acquired multiple boosts, as it simply makes Ditto more deadly. However, as always, one should never send Ditto out against an opponent that has a Substitute up, as Ditto cannot transform into a Pokemon behind a Substitute and will simply become dead weight. Ditto's EVs are nearly useless in all situations except the very rare case where one's opponent sends Ditto out on the same turn that one's own Ditto is sent out. In this case, neither Ditto will transform, and a stall war will ensue. Thus, one wants to have the slower Ditto, as it will use Struggle after the opponent receives recoil damage, giving it an advantage. However, Ditto copies the stats of any other Pokemon that it transforms into, so the EVs serve no further purpose. Ditto does not, however, copy the opponent's IVs, so one should make sure that Ditto's IVs are set for the Hidden Power of choice. Using 30 Attack and 30 Defense IVs gives Ditto Hidden Power Ice, a good move for all-around coverage. 30 Atk, SpA, and Spe IVs can be used for Fire, as it hits Ferrothorn, Forry, and Skarm. Ditto is a unique Pokemon, so it is only natural that it should be used differently than other Pokemon. Ditto should absolutely never be used as a lead or sent out to sponge a hit; these simply ruin its purpose. Instead, Ditto can be used to take on setup sweepers after they nab a KO, or simply revenge kill opposing threats. This puts Ditto users in a dilemma: what move should be used? As a general rule of thumb, Ditto should use a move that will allow it to stay in and do as much damage as possible. However, should Ditto be presented with an immediate threat that must be taken out, using the appropriate move and switching out will usually suffice. Ditto is also useful for scouting opponents' movesets, as it copies every move. For example, sending Ditto out against Deoxys-S seems like a bad idea for the most part, but this actually allows you to learn whether or not Deoxys-S is an offensive variant or not. Similarly, one can scout setup sweepers in order to react appropriately and wall them, or to scout versatile Pokemon to learn how to stop them. __________________ Work Ever wanted to contribute to Smogon? Visit the Contributions and Corrections forum! ~SNOVERS~

Jul 9th, 2012, 6:59:15 PM	#2
EternalNewbie Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2	As a revenge killer? I suppose so... but given the turn it takes to transform, the opponent could switch to the Pokemon in their party that's easiest to counter (say, I had him copy Ho-Oh and then switch to Kyogre immediatly afterwards) and then just tear it to pieces. __________________ The game is half luck. Or so it seems that way to the new guy,

Aug 23rd, 2012, 5:19:35 PM	#11
TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,246 New York born, New York proud	O my bad then Anywho, has anyone thought of Ditto as a way to check SmashPass? Since it copies the stats boosts from the Pokemon(say, Dialga), you could use said boosts and tear a team to shreds. Beens working on PS, tho PS ladder is a bit shaky skillwise to say the least __________________ Work Ever wanted to contribute to Smogon? Visit the Contributions and Corrections forum! ~SNOVERS~

Oct 7th, 2012, 7:04:36 PM	#15
Vatii Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 5 Third Moon of Endor	Ditto is a bit of an oddball. I suppose it always has been really. From back in the anime when it would awkwardly turn into things but still have those damn beady eyes to stare at you with. Its role in Uber's is basically the same, it turns into you but turns the whole situation really awkward. And I am not just saying that as in you basically have the pokemon equivalent of wearing the same dress to the dance, I mean as in your stat boosts. There is nothing that a boosted pokemon will fear more then a ditto to come in a ruin its day and the rest of the battle. But there is a fatal flaw to ditto if it is scarfed, you can tell what move it is going to use and swap. Take for example my Dragon Dance Rayquaza, I get to +1 attack and +1 speed and I'm thinking I am about to have a really good time, then here comes Ditto! Well that's just annoying. My opponent smiles to him/herself and thinks that they have ruined me. Well there is a problem with their plan. The only move in my set that will hurt Rayquaza is Outrage. And I have a steel type. So I just swap to Genosect and tank an outrage only to counter the next turn with choice speced Ice Beam because I am faster. So he really didn't accomplish anything. The point I am trying to make is that Ditto, while at times a great choice to stop a boosted sweeper, should be used with caution. You should ask yourself very carefully what moveset you think the opponent has, if they really only have one move that you could use against them think about this. They know that too. They don't have to guess about your moves and how to swap, they see the set right in front of them. So try and use some prediction when using ditto, or you may just find it failing against intelligent foes. __________________ I'm just that one girl who you saw in the Uber's ladder that one time. Don't think much of me. I am nothing. I am an enigma. But if you come to battle me, bring your best or go home. There is no point in doing otherwise.

Aug 21st, 2012, 4:45:31 PM	#5
Double Electric Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 51 Roaming the Moonlands	I will say that Scarf Ditto is rather ineffective against Calm Mind Arceus formes (and many other Calm Minders such as Manaphy), since they can recover health, and Ditto will usually be stuck using a non-STAB move repeatedly in an attempt to critical hit. It's also likely to sustain a lot of damage in the process of revenge killing Mewtwo, since Shadow Ball isn't the standard these days.

Aug 22nd, 2012, 5:23:55 PM	#6
mtr Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,754	That's a glitch though, Ditto should transform into whatever type Arceus is, or at least it does going by cartridge mechanics. Tbh it really only matters in the case of Ghost, Dragon, and maybe Normal Arceus.

Sep 25th, 2012, 6:36:48 PM	#13
Damo Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 14	My ghost arceus always lures out ditto after a few boosts and since the only move it knows that can hit a ghost is shadow force, I just laugh as my slower arceus creams ditto. Happens nearly every time I see ditto.

Sep 29th, 2012, 3:41:08 PM	#14
BocciasBattles Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 4	Personally I think ditto has done what no pokemon has done before: had the ability to do it's job exceptionally well in all tiers, with certain flaws like it's hp and the fact that it is choice locked into a move (unless you use a rare life orb variant), prevent it from being banned. Overall I think it is hugely effective in any tier you use it in, and only really falls short when it copies the stats of a wall rather than a sweeper. Also priority is a great way to counter ditto that also makes it very balanced and usable, so yeah, Rock On Ditto!