The Dark Horse Project IV - Page 12

Eranu · Oct 11th, 2012, 10:37:22 AM

Made it to silver. Edited my peak in my original post.

Master of the Six Kings · Oct 11th, 2012, 3:53:59 PM

Alright, managed to grind up way higher with Swamp and Missy before really bad accuracy tilting, and then bumped up Machamp a bit, though no where near as much. I'll edit when i figure out what Poke(s) i want to do next, but happy with my progress with Swamp/Miss.

newproof

secondaryproof

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Johhny Ringo
Hall of Fame Standing: Two Bronze
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Raikou, Tornadus
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none

Standardish rain, ahoy!

Ninetale3 · Oct 11th, 2012, 8:41:23 PM

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Ninetale3z
Hall of Fame Standing:None
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Serperior, Togekiss
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1394

Serperior@leftovers
trait:overgrow
Nature:jolly
Evs:200 Hp, 56spdef, 252 speed
Moves:
reflect
glare
leech seed
taunt

Lavos Spawn · Oct 11th, 2012, 8:53:02 PM

awwww mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

nice job doom...looks like I have to ladder again

col49 · Oct 11th, 2012, 10:22:32 PM

Late to this, but I'll try my best ;-;

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Don't Be Easy
Hall of Fame Standing: Nothin'
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Empoleon
Current Ladder Standing: 1988

**Molk** · Oct 11th, 2012, 11:19:09 PM

Darm was pretty good, but i suck at playing sun so changing again

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Dark Bishop
Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Bisharp
Current Ladder Standing: 1000

ssbbm · Oct 12th, 2012, 12:29:38 AM

FUCK YOU JIRACHI

as a sidenote: i got up to 1920!

then i tilted back down to 1840ish after fucking haxxxx

YES NOW I AM ON LADDER

1900 now actually!

discoboy · Oct 12th, 2012, 1:37:34 AM

...

The pokemon I used were chansey and ditto

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Quirky Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Transform
-
-
-
Chansey @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Def / 232 SDef
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
I chose chansey for this project since it hadn't gotten on the hall of fame yet and I thought it wouldn't be that difficult. I basically took my favorite team from D/P/Pt, swapped Chansey for Blissey, and swapped ditto for rotom. I didn't think much of the dark horses I had chosen.

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
I basically just made a stall team. Skarmory, Chansey, Latias, Jellicent, Heatran, and then Ditto. Ditto works really well on a stall team since most teams rely on set-up sweepers to get past your walls. Then ditto can come in and sweep them back. Currently my team is 24-5.

Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
I feel like Chansey was just a worse version of Blissey when I used it. The only thing I liked about it was how well it took Genesect U-turns. But ditto is really good on a stall team. It covers loose ends - it can rapid spin if the other team has a spinner. And it really helps against those dragon dancers and venusaur.

(For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?
It wasn't really that difficult to make top 100. I'm pretty confident with how I play stall, and using a dark horse pokemon didn't change much. But I do feel like having ditto gave me an edge.

alexwolf · Oct 12th, 2012, 3:17:46 AM

Congrats discoboy, Ditto on a stall team seems as a great fucking idea!

How do you manage hazards though, without a spinner? Yeah Ditto Can spin if the opponent has a spinner, but if it doesn't, or even worse if they have a spin-blocker?

alkinesthetase · Oct 12th, 2012, 4:03:03 AM

Quote:

awwww mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

nice job doom...looks like I have to ladder again

lol lavos you actually narrowly managed to hold onto gm (23 ladder points) because doom didn't beat your glicko2. SO CLOSE MAN, SO CLOSE

oh and if anyone's wondering why my smogon activity dropped from 4 hours a day to one, i have 3 words for you: xcom enemy unknown. dw though, i will keep stuff updated regardless of my sudden addiction to what is definitely one of the best turn-based tactics games to come out in the past 5 years

The Great Mighty Doom · Oct 12th, 2012, 5:58:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Temp V1

Great work Doom, and congratulations on topping the ladder.

Thanks :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Lavos Spawn

awwww mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

nice job doom...looks like I have to ladder again

No you don't, luckily for you some bs happened before I hit #1 and you have a higher glicko2, but thanks for the nice job message :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ssbbm

FUCK YOU JIRACHI

as a sidenote: i got up to 1920!

then i tilted back down to 1840ish after fucking haxxxx

YES NOW I AM ON LADDER

1900 now actually!

Your points for this challenge is based off of glicko2. So, you actually have 1991 atm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alkinesthetase

lol lavos you actually narrowly managed to hold onto gm (23 ladder points) because doom didn't beat your glicko2. SO CLOSE MAN, SO CLOSE

oh and if anyone's wondering why my smogon activity dropped from 4 hours a day to one, i have 3 words for you: xcom enemy unknown. dw though, i will keep stuff updated regardless of my sudden addiction to what is definitely one of the best turn-based tactics games to come out in the past 5 years

Yeah Lavos still has gm, but I've decided to start a new account and DH after the ladder reset, so he won't have it for long :]

ssbbm · Oct 12th, 2012, 6:04:57 PM

got ittttt

...

sd jumpluff is so funny and sexy to sweep with! it kills sun 100% of the time, tbh. occa magneton > genesect. lo kabutops is mad underrated it literally kills rain more than anything else. aerodactyl is the best sr setter in the meta i think. froslass is ok but it only really works as a lure to scizor; it doesn't spinblock well. weavile is pretty amazing too.

Master of the Six Kings · Oct 12th, 2012, 7:16:08 PM

I made it to the top of the gold rank with Torn/Raikou! 47-7 until i tilted a bit, but im crazy satisfied with that. I wanted to get a team out of Bronze and did well over that.

proof

set/thoughts

I'll edit/new post with more DHs later. I had way too many games go to 50+ turns in that crazy run. And ill bet they restrart the ladder soon anyway.

Lavos Spawn · Oct 12th, 2012, 7:20:30 PM

challenge accepted, doom! (though I'm relieved that bs ladder mechanics preserved my title...)

Pokemon Showdown! Username: BROLY
Hall of Fame Standing: n/a
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: THE DARM BOSS
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: n/a

alkinesthetase · Oct 12th, 2012, 9:45:45 PM

okay guys i'm gonna go through the thread front to back, i'll edit the post when i'm done and we should all be up to date again. xcom has been eating SOOO much of my time so i actually haven't done this in the past few days x_x

EDIT: oh god running from the thread front to back and restarting the entire list is going to be horrifying

alexwolf · Oct 12th, 2012, 9:46:38 PM

Updating my record for the name Moltresman2:

...

I am done trying to get to Gold rank, as the ladder is broken, and each win gives 1-2 points, so it is impossible to achieve anything at this point...

alkinesthetase · Oct 12th, 2012, 11:40:33 PM

PHEW. dumping my whole list and starting from scratch for maximum accuracy took nearly two hours. everything should be solid now. you can bet your ass my organizational demands will be higher next month. now if you'll excuse me smogon, i'm gonna take a shower and play xcom for the next four hours

also lavos, lando-T is not a legal dark horse this month

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat me

Note that I have chosen to include Landorus-T and Keldeo on this list - I know, one of their usages for September is below 5%, but the other one is above 5%, and so is their 3 month usage, so I had to make the call and I chose to put them on the list. Maybe if their usage goes down, you might be able to take Keldeo out for a spin as your Dark Horse next month =]

Lavos Spawn · Oct 12th, 2012, 11:42:05 PM

good thing I've been laddering with THE DARM BOSS as well...it should be usable according to the standard "under 5%" rule though, but I won't dispute your judgment

alkinesthetase · Oct 12th, 2012, 11:58:22 PM

darm is cool yup. as for my judgment about landorus-T, i was honestly a bit mixed on it as well... in terms of the ideological meaning of a "dark horse", it probably fits the bill. however keldeo DEFINITELY does not. i think we can all agree, keldeo is an established member of this metagame. landorus-T, maybe, but i'm not so sure. you could say the same thing for mons like deoxys-D who are obviously a major part of the current metagame, but deoxys was solidly under the 5% cut so i couldn't apply any personal judgment there - rules were rules.

however with keldeo and landorus both edging out it under 5%, i had to ask myself if i wanted to allow them or disallow them. those of you that were in #pokemon when i had that 30-minute conversation about dark horse cutoffs, you'll remember what i was saying about how i don't want us to apply any more hand-picking than i have to - it starts to feel arbitrary as to what is and is not a dark horse, and that starts to defeat part of the project's purpose (ie to let people pick what mons they want). percentage cutoffs are blind in that they don't really understand whether a mon is underrated or if it's just not being used cause people are weird, but cutoffs cannot be argued with, which is their essential strength. i couldn't argue with them either which is why guys like deoxys-D were legal this month, but with keldeo and landorus so close to being on or off, it was kind of my call as to where they landed.

i knew from the start that i wanted keldeo to be on the list because ain't no way keldeo is a dark horse in this metagame, nuh uh. but that presented a problem because if i put landorus-T off of the list, it would kind of be based on the attitude that "i think landorus is a dark horse, but i also think keldeo is not, therefore ima put keldeo on the list and landorus off it". too arbitrary for me and i didn't like that kind of justification. there was really no way for me to exclude keldeo from dark horse play and also include landorus-T, without making a rather shaky argument for why one and not the other. so i chose to take them both off. that way, i can fall back on the percentages - when a mon has one usage percentage above the cutoff and one below for a single month, the three-month stats will tiebreak, and it pushed them both over the line. while my decision to do so may have been flawed within itself, at least this way, it's all back in the domain of numbers, which is quite a bit safer for me. i am aware that tiering is based on one of the percentages and ignores the other, but tiering is based on 3 month stats so the argument is not directly portable to this situation.

anyway when i was referring to my justification about landorus-T and keldeo, this is basically what i was thinking about. this kind of stuff is also what the four of us will be thinking about when we go into cutoff planning for next month. stay tuned and keep laddering!

**Pocket** · Oct 13th, 2012, 6:52:43 AM

Holy shit, guys, a lot of you Bronzies are moving up!! I'm especially happy for Master of the Six Kings, who skyrocketed all the way to Gold, which only housed ginganinja! Awesome job, Six Kings :D. Interesting use of Tornadus-I, heh. I do agree that HP Ice would be nice for revenge-killing purposes (think Dragonite and Thundurus-T); I'd probably replace Heat Wave for HP Ice, since you're using a Rain team. I also don't know if Aura Sphere is worth being slower than dangerous threats like Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Landorus, and Latios. I'd try testing Timid Raikou with Calm Mind > Aura Sphere and see how that works. You may still choose to bluff Scarf with Expert Belt & Volt Switch or change item to Lefties or Lum Berry, which are arguably more useful for setting up.

As for your Mismagius / Swampert Team, Energy Ball is a poor coverage move that I doubt you use often. I believe Mismagius would be more useful with Nasty Plot, Thunder Wave, Will-O-Wisp, Hypnosis, Taunt, or Destiny Bond over that slot.

Also props to ssbm for climbing up the ladder with a FULL Dark Horse Team xD. I really love your "riding on the opponent's weather" abuse with Kabutops and Jumpluff (lol, I can see Jumpluff annihilating Venusaur and Volcarona users right now!). Weavile & Magneton provides some nice trapping core, too :d Occa Magneton is an interesting touch to remove the top OU threat in BW2 atm, but seems outclassed by Magnezone - would you have chosen Magnezone if it wasn't for DHP? Aerodactyl is an innovative touch to this team to check Tornadus-T :d This team utilizes these Pokemon's Speed to great effect! Bravo, ssbm! I'd love to have a replays of your team in action xd

ClubbingSealCub · Oct 13th, 2012, 6:59:46 AM

Garchomp has been unbanned, and his last month usage was 0,00%.

Is he a dark horse now? <:3

FUCK NO - he's a white stallion 8) - Pocket

edit: but he's blue and red.

Jayde · Oct 13th, 2012, 10:39:33 AM

Jynx isn't turning out to be that much fun. Even when I win, it's usually because of one of my other team members. Doing two new ones at the moment (if that's not allowed, just pick the first one)

Pokemon Showdown! Username: i'llweelyou
Hall of Fame Standing: na
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: big V
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: na

I tested this team on an alt to perfect it, and even though I went 22-6, I was stuck in the 1600s with a horribly low dev. Now I'm doing this for real, this darkblazer nig better watch his ass.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: th tri4ce
Hall of Fame Standing: NAH
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: BIG LAPRAS
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: na

Holy shit, this thing is a boss. Half the time, I just have to eliminate Ferro and maybe 1-2 other BIG THREATs, and then come set up on basically any defensively oriented pokemon, get to +6 and sweep. I can easily tank most Draco Meteors, Volt Switches and Thunderbolts by using Rest and waking up instantly. Most of the time I lose, it's honestly just because people crit Lapras (to be expected considering how many attacks I tank). With counters eliminated, it's almost foolproof.

Master of the Six Kings · Oct 13th, 2012, 11:20:15 AM

Pocket: Thanks for the praise :D Heat Wave was specifically for Genesect, as no one expected their choiced Genesect lead to be slower than my Tornadus lead. Aura Sphere is hard to not have, as its the only way to deal with Ferrothorn (we really need an Arua Sphere tutor in Gen 6 :I) but i agree that forced Rash kinda sucks. Mismagius with NP i agree probably would be better. I was just trying to patch up a weakness to Gastroodon, but i never saw more than 1, lol.

And is giga supposed to be gold? it says he has over 2200 points and that gold only goes to 2199, or am i missing something? I atleast know that you called my Raikou Amoongus and thats definately not the case, xD

Still can't decide on what DH to use next... so many possibly viable options...

FastFlygon · Oct 13th, 2012, 11:27:06 AM

Made it with Lapras.
(Please don't steal it Jayde D:)
I used Lavos' DD Hydrarest set and it was honestly good in pretty much every game I played. Didn't get that many sweeps, but Ice Shard + that bulk was an excellent combination, and there were a couple of stall teams I ran through since they had no way of touching it. The SR weakness is kind of annoying but REst somewhat mitigates that. The real MvP of my ladder run was Specs Jolteon, but Lapras did work every game I needed it - most often as an Alakazam check since Jolteon flat-out loses to SashZam, which is the only set people are using right now, and Waterfall+Ice Shard handily disposes of it in Rain.

Peak

Full Team

Feel free to steal/tweak/tell me how crap this is :P. I'll go grab the questions and edit them in here, then perhaps see if I can get a little higher!

EDIT:
How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
After I gave up on Carracosta, I was stuck trying to decide on a new horse. I didn't feel like building another Rain team, but most of the Pokemon I was interested in were either rain-dependent or had already been used pretty successfully by someone in the challenge. I correctly recognised I had no hope of beating any of the higher players (yet! :P), so after deliberating for a couple days I decided the lapras set Lavos posted looked very interesting and built another Rain team. A couple of minor tweaks later, I found myself on the Leaderboard.

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
I figured Lapras would really love Toxic Spikes, so I added a Tentacruel to provide them, spin for it, and benefit from the inevitable rain. In the end, I changed to a SubToxic set and just deal with rocks, since Toxic Spikes were pretty useless 3 games out of 5, and Tentacruel still managed to Poison everything I needed it to most games. I obviously needed Politoed as well, and I went with a Physically defensive set because in my experience it's the only one with the longevity for a team like the one I was building. Since I had a pretty big Electric weakness forming, I added an offensive Latias, which also happened to handily check a lot of Pokemon that looked dangerous, such as Breloom, Terrakion and Keldeo. I also added a bulky Landorus-T, which seems to be a go-to Pokemon on every team I make right now. Since Ferrothorn was a tough prospect, I gave it Superpower>U-turn, and I haven't really regretted the change. It provided rocks while giving me a chance against the Outragers running around all over the place. In the final spot, I felt like I had all the crucial bases covered, but the team would appreciate something quick to tie things together at the ends of games. Jolteon was working well for me at that point in time, so I decided a Specs set would make an excellent cleanup mon. It proved me right and more, killing a Pokemon almost every game and saving my ass with a clutch paralysis every once in a while.

Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
I do think a dark horse is an asset to any team which can make the best of its strengths. However, it almost felt as though I was laddering with four dark horses, because most of my team was below 30th in the usage stats. In my experience, something a little unusual is absolutely mandatory on any successful team, but it doesn't have to be a dark horse - usage is the only truly unbiased method of determining whether something is uncommon or not, but there are Pokemon dotted all throughout the usage stats that seem to crop up more rarely and cause more trouble when they do. I didn't run into a single Tornadus-T for my entire ladder run, but if I had I would probably have been under a lot of Pressure. It's hard to pick up on Pokemon like this without spending a couple of dozen games laddering, but usage is a good subsitute.

Anyway, I kind of went off on a tangent there. Lapras proved useful in almost all my battles, as noted above. In particular, nobody expected Ice Shard, which led to a lot of easy revenge kills throughout the run. Hydration is a fantastic ability that let Lapras absorb Scalds, Twaves and Spores left right and center, although I still found the team weak to sleep since both of the common carriers easily beat Lapras 1v1. I ended up valuing bulk more than sweeping ability in the case of my Dark Horse, as little bar a crit can really OHKO you.

(For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?
The secret to ladder success on PS is winning early, and the DHC is no exception. Testing a couple of sets on an alt before you dive right it in a great idea, and I actually ended up playing seven or eight test games before I felt I was ready to truly begin. Overall, Lapras did pretty well, although I would probably use a slightly different set in future.

The biggest piece of advice I have for people trying the challenge it to pick a pokemon with utility. That doesn't mean you have to choose a support Pokemon, but if it doesn't check anything interesting or support in any kind of interesting fashion, it will be mediocre in the majority of games. In Lapras' case, it could absorb status and also had Ice-type priority, which is invaluable all on its own, but it also has bulk enough to check a wide variety of prominent Pokemon.

I will probably end up writing a RMT thread for this team, but I'll leave you with that for now.

Master of the Six Kings · Oct 13th, 2012, 11:35:02 AM

FF: Hey man, the team doesn't look too bad! I personally have a hard time justifying Tentacruel without Rapid Spin or with Toxic when Poli already has it. How does your team deal with Scarfers resistant to Ice Shard though? Seems like Genesect would Uturn through you and pick off a few members before sweeping with Bug Buzz or Tbolt or Terrakion just need Lando out of the way.

Oct 11th, 2012, 3:53:59 PM	#277
Master of the Six Kings Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 791 Where soccer is the correct terminology and bacon isn't dishonest	Alright, managed to grind up way higher with Swamp and Missy before really bad accuracy tilting, and then bumped up Machamp a bit, though no where near as much. I'll edit when i figure out what Poke(s) i want to do next, but happy with my progress with Swamp/Miss. newproof secondaryproof Pokemon Showdown! Username: Johhny Ringo Hall of Fame Standing: Two Bronze Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Raikou, Tornadus Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none Standardish rain, ahoy! Last edited by Master of the Six Kings; Oct 12th, 2012 at 5:58:47 AM.

Oct 11th, 2012, 8:41:23 PM	#278
Ninetale3 Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 129 Minnesota	Pokemon Showdown! Username: Ninetale3z Hall of Fame Standing:None Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Serperior, Togekiss Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1394 Serperior@leftovers trait:overgrow Nature:jolly Evs:200 Hp, 56spdef, 252 speed Moves: reflect glare leech seed taunt Last edited by Ninetale3; Oct 16th, 2012 at 6:08:24 PM.

Oct 11th, 2012, 8:53:02 PM	#279
Lavos Spawn Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,319 wild west Mentor	awwww mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nice job doom...looks like I have to ladder again __________________

Oct 11th, 2012, 10:22:32 PM	#280
col49 it was always a long shot Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 788 planet fickle	Late to this, but I'll try my best ;-; Pokemon Showdown! Username: Don't Be Easy Hall of Fame Standing: Nothin' Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Empoleon Current Ladder Standing: 1988 Last edited by col49; Oct 13th, 2012 at 10:37:15 AM.

Oct 11th, 2012, 11:19:09 PM	#281
Molk Recipe for swag Moderator Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,322 Long Island	Darm was pretty good, but i suck at playing sun so changing again Pokemon Showdown! Username: Dark Bishop Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Bisharp Current Ladder Standing: 1000 __________________ 16:46 <TLCNU> Esca literally is 2HKO'd by Stoutland Fire Fang 10:33 skylight molk put me in your sig Last edited by Molk; Oct 12th, 2012 at 4:55:10 PM.

Oct 11th, 2012, 10:37:22 AM	#276
Eranu Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 371	Made it to silver. Edited my peak in my original post.

Oct 12th, 2012, 12:29:38 AM	#282
ssbbm Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,001 Where you can play Pokemon with Singing Narwhals and Dancing Clouds	FUCK YOU JIRACHI as a sidenote: i got up to 1920! then i tilted back down to 1840ish after fucking haxxxx YES NOW I AM ON LADDER 1900 now actually! Last edited by ssbbm; Oct 12th, 2012 at 1:27:40 AM.

Oct 12th, 2012, 1:37:34 AM	#283
discoboy Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 44	... Alt Name: Discoman The pokemon I used were chansey and ditto Ditto @ Choice Scarf Trait: Imposter EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Quirky Nature IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def - Transform - - - Chansey @ Eviolite Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 24 HP / 252 Def / 232 SDef Calm Nature - Seismic Toss - Wish - Protect - Stealth Rock *How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?* I chose chansey for this project since it hadn't gotten on the hall of fame yet and I thought it wouldn't be that difficult. I basically took my favorite team from D/P/Pt, swapped Chansey for Blissey, and swapped ditto for rotom. I didn't think much of the dark horses I had chosen. *How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?* I basically just made a stall team. Skarmory, Chansey, Latias, Jellicent, Heatran, and then Ditto. Ditto works really well on a stall team since most teams rely on set-up sweepers to get past your walls. Then ditto can come in and sweep them back. Currently my team is 24-5. Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common? I feel like Chansey was just a worse version of Blissey when I used it. The only thing I liked about it was how well it took Genesect U-turns. But ditto is really good on a stall team. It covers loose ends - it can rapid spin if the other team has a spinner. And it really helps against those dragon dancers and venusaur. (For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon? It wasn't really that difficult to make top 100. I'm pretty confident with how I play stall, and using a dark horse pokemon didn't change much. But I do feel like having ditto gave me an edge. Last edited by discoboy; Oct 12th, 2012 at 1:58:42 AM.

Oct 12th, 2012, 3:17:46 AM	#284
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,758 Greece	Congrats discoboy, Ditto on a stall team seems as a great fucking idea! How do you manage hazards though, without a spinner? Yeah Ditto Can spin if the opponent has a spinner, but if it doesn't, or even worse if they have a spin-blocker? __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check!

Oct 12th, 2012, 6:04:57 PM	#287
ssbbm Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,001 Where you can play Pokemon with Singing Narwhals and Dancing Clouds	got ittttt ... Aerodactyl @ Life Orb Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP Jolly Nature - Stealth Rock - Stone Edge - Earthquake - Taunt Jumpluff @ Flying Gem Trait: Chlorophyll EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP Jolly Nature - Swords Dance - Sleep Powder - Acrobatics - Seed Bomb Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash Trait: Snow Cloak EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef Timid Nature - Hidden Power [Fire] - Shadow Ball - Ice Beam - Spikes Weavile @ Life Orb Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP Jolly Nature - Ice Punch - Pursuit - Ice Shard - Low Kick Kabutops @ Life Orb Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP Adamant Nature - Aqua Jet - Waterfall - Stone Edge - Superpower Magneton @ Occa Berry Trait: Magnet Pull EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP Timid Nature - Thunderbolt - Volt Switch - Hidden Power [Fire] - Flash Cannon sd jumpluff is so funny and sexy to sweep with! it kills sun 100% of the time, tbh. occa magneton > genesect. lo kabutops is mad underrated it literally kills rain more than anything else. aerodactyl is the best sr setter in the meta i think. froslass is ok but it only really works as a lure to scizor; it doesn't spinblock well. weavile is pretty amazing too.

Oct 12th, 2012, 7:16:08 PM	#288
Master of the Six Kings Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 791 Where soccer is the correct terminology and bacon isn't dishonest	I made it to the top of the gold rank with Torn/Raikou! 47-7 until i tilted a bit, but im crazy satisfied with that. I wanted to get a team out of Bronze and did well over that. proof set/thoughts Tornadus (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Prankster EVs: 200 Spd / 252 SAtk / 56 Atk Naive Nature - Heat Wave - Hurricane - Superpower - U-turn Raikou @ Expert Belt Trait: Pressure Shiny: Yes EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP Rash Nature - Aura Sphere - Thunder - Hidden Power [Ice] - Volt Switch I started this DH knowing i wanted to get above Bronze, something i was just barely unable to do with my 2nd attempt and no where near on my 1st. Raikou was the first Pokemon that came to my mind, he's undoubtley my favorite Special Attacking UU Pokemon, and he holds his own in OU as well as Jolteon ever does. I made my standard rain set and replaced Shadow Ball with Volt Switch because A) it would be easier to bluff choice item and B) OU doesnt have much in the way of Psychic or Ghost types that aren't hit harder by Thunder. I built the rest of the team with a Politoed, Ferrothorn, Tentacruel and Dragonite; all pretty standard for rain before looking at the last slot. I needed something that could counter Genesect, as alongisde Dugtrio, he didnt fear any member of my team. I couldn't come up with anything. I looked for a DH who might be able to help and stumbled on regular Tornadus. While slower than his winged counterpart, i realized i could justify his extra offensive power as justification for a choice scarf. I faced 16 Genesect in my long road to gold and Tornadus killed 12 on the first turn and 14 in total. Raikou was no slouch in dominating teams of Forretress/Jellicents/Gliscors and often times Ferrothorns with his great power and coverage. I often thought about changing up U-turn on Tornadus, as he wasnt the best Pokemon to utilize it with SR weakness, and there were times i wanted HP Ice or even Water or Electric, but it served its uses. I'll edit/new post with more DHs later. I had way too many games go to 50+ turns in that crazy run. And ill bet they restrart the ladder soon anyway. Last edited by Pocket; Oct 13th, 2012 at 5:57:53 AM.

Oct 12th, 2012, 7:20:30 PM	#289
Lavos Spawn Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,319 wild west Mentor	challenge accepted, doom! (though I'm relieved that bs ladder mechanics preserved my title...) Pokemon Showdown! Username: BROLY Hall of Fame Standing: n/a Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: THE DARM BOSS Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: n/a __________________ Last edited by Lavos Spawn; Oct 12th, 2012 at 11:41:10 PM.

Oct 12th, 2012, 9:45:45 PM	#290
alkinesthetase <~aldarOFF> ill be imagining your face in my toilet alkines Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 711 <ala> canadabros is the strongest bros you can be Mentor	okay guys i'm gonna go through the thread front to back, i'll edit the post when i'm done and we should all be up to date again. xcom has been eating SOOO much of my time so i actually haven't done this in the past few days x_x EDIT: oh god running from the thread front to back and restarting the entire list is going to be horrifying __________________ <%yee> i will summon a spider to kill alkines my massive mafia roles list Last edited by alkinesthetase; Oct 12th, 2012 at 10:03:57 PM.

Oct 12th, 2012, 9:46:38 PM	#291
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,758 Greece	Updating my record for the name Moltresman2: ... http://imageshack.us/f/6/moltresrecord.jpg/ I am done trying to get to Gold rank, as the ladder is broken, and each win gives 1-2 points, so it is impossible to achieve anything at this point... __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check!

Oct 12th, 2012, 11:42:05 PM	#293
Lavos Spawn Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,319 wild west Mentor	good thing I've been laddering with THE DARM BOSS as well...it should be usable according to the standard "under 5%" rule though, but I won't dispute your judgment __________________

Oct 12th, 2012, 11:58:22 PM	#294
alkinesthetase <~aldarOFF> ill be imagining your face in my toilet alkines Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 711 <ala> canadabros is the strongest bros you can be Mentor	darm is cool yup. as for my judgment about landorus-T, i was honestly a bit mixed on it as well... in terms of the ideological meaning of a "dark horse", it probably fits the bill. however keldeo DEFINITELY does not. i think we can all agree, keldeo is an established member of this metagame. landorus-T, maybe, but i'm not so sure. you could say the same thing for mons like deoxys-D who are obviously a major part of the current metagame, but deoxys was solidly under the 5% cut so i couldn't apply any personal judgment there - rules were rules. however with keldeo and landorus both edging out it under 5%, i had to ask myself if i wanted to allow them or disallow them. those of you that were in #pokemon when i had that 30-minute conversation about dark horse cutoffs, you'll remember what i was saying about how i don't want us to apply any more hand-picking than i have to - it starts to feel arbitrary as to what is and is not a dark horse, and that starts to defeat part of the project's purpose (ie to let people pick what mons they want). percentage cutoffs are blind in that they don't really understand whether a mon is underrated or if it's just not being used cause people are weird, but cutoffs cannot be argued with, which is their essential strength. i couldn't argue with them either which is why guys like deoxys-D were legal this month, but with keldeo and landorus so close to being on or off, it was kind of my call as to where they landed. i knew from the start that i wanted keldeo to be on the list because ain't no way keldeo is a dark horse in this metagame, nuh uh. but that presented a problem because if i put landorus-T off of the list, it would kind of be based on the attitude that "i think landorus is a dark horse, but i also think keldeo is not, therefore ima put keldeo on the list and landorus off it". too arbitrary for me and i didn't like that kind of justification. there was really no way for me to exclude keldeo from dark horse play and also include landorus-T, without making a rather shaky argument for why one and not the other. so i chose to take them both off. that way, i can fall back on the percentages - when a mon has one usage percentage above the cutoff and one below for a single month, the three-month stats will tiebreak, and it pushed them both over the line. while my decision to do so may have been flawed within itself, at least this way, it's all back in the domain of numbers, which is quite a bit safer for me. i am aware that tiering is based on one of the percentages and ignores the other, but tiering is based on 3 month stats so the argument is not directly portable to this situation. anyway when i was referring to my justification about landorus-T and keldeo, this is basically what i was thinking about. this kind of stuff is also what the four of us will be thinking about when we go into cutoff planning for next month. stay tuned and keep laddering! __________________ <%yee> i will summon a spider to kill alkines my massive mafia roles list Last edited by alkinesthetase; Oct 13th, 2012 at 12:10:15 AM.

Oct 13th, 2012, 6:52:43 AM	#295
Pocket Talonflame :D Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,294 Bergenfield	Holy shit, guys, a lot of you Bronzies are moving up!! I'm especially happy for Master of the Six Kings, who skyrocketed all the way to Gold, which only housed ginganinja! Awesome job, Six Kings :D. Interesting use of Tornadus-I, heh. I do agree that HP Ice would be nice for revenge-killing purposes (think Dragonite and Thundurus-T); I'd probably replace Heat Wave for HP Ice, since you're using a Rain team. I also don't know if Aura Sphere is worth being slower than dangerous threats like Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Landorus, and Latios. I'd try testing Timid Raikou with Calm Mind > Aura Sphere and see how that works. You may still choose to bluff Scarf with Expert Belt & Volt Switch or change item to Lefties or Lum Berry, which are arguably more useful for setting up. As for your Mismagius / Swampert Team, Energy Ball is a poor coverage move that I doubt you use often. I believe Mismagius would be more useful with Nasty Plot, Thunder Wave, Will-O-Wisp, Hypnosis, Taunt, or Destiny Bond over that slot. Also props to ssbm for climbing up the ladder with a FULL Dark Horse Team xD. I really love your "riding on the opponent's weather" abuse with Kabutops and Jumpluff (lol, I can see Jumpluff annihilating Venusaur and Volcarona users right now!). Weavile & Magneton provides some nice trapping core, too :d Occa Magneton is an interesting touch to remove the top OU threat in BW2 atm, but seems outclassed by Magnezone - would you have chosen Magnezone if it wasn't for DHP? Aerodactyl is an innovative touch to this team to check Tornadus-T :d This team utilizes these Pokemon's Speed to great effect! Bravo, ssbm! I'd love to have a replays of your team in action xd __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Oct 13th, 2012, 6:59:46 AM	#296
ClubbingSealCub Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 388 Spheal @ Thick Club	Garchomp has been unbanned, and his last month usage was 0,00%. Is he a dark horse now? <:3 FUCK NO - he's a white stallion 8) - Pocket edit: but he's blue and red. __________________ RMT: Dune Walkers - Featuring Sandslash Tobes: Infernape is still #22 in standard OU. You all sicken me. Last edited by ClubbingSealCub; Oct 13th, 2012 at 7:12:58 AM.

Oct 13th, 2012, 10:39:33 AM	#297
Jayde SOLIDARITY Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 325	Jynx isn't turning out to be that much fun. Even when I win, it's usually because of one of my other team members. Doing two new ones at the moment (if that's not allowed, just pick the first one) Pokemon Showdown! Username: i'llweelyou Hall of Fame Standing: na Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: big V Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: na I tested this team on an alt to perfect it, and even though I went 22-6, I was stuck in the 1600s with a horribly low dev. Now I'm doing this for real, this darkblazer nig better watch his ass. Pokemon Showdown! Username: th tri4ce Hall of Fame Standing: NAH Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: BIG LAPRAS Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: na Holy shit, this thing is a boss. Half the time, I just have to eliminate Ferro and maybe 1-2 other BIG THREATs, and then come set up on basically any defensively oriented pokemon, get to +6 and sweep. I can easily tank most Draco Meteors, Volt Switches and Thunderbolts by using Rest and waking up instantly. Most of the time I lose, it's honestly just because people crit Lapras (to be expected considering how many attacks I tank). With counters eliminated, it's almost foolproof. __________________ Super Willpowered Energetic Loving Loquacious Outstanding Washes himself daily Last edited by Jayde; Oct 13th, 2012 at 6:24:16 PM.

Oct 13th, 2012, 11:20:15 AM	#298
Master of the Six Kings Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 791 Where soccer is the correct terminology and bacon isn't dishonest	Pocket: Thanks for the praise :D Heat Wave was specifically for Genesect, as no one expected their choiced Genesect lead to be slower than my Tornadus lead. Aura Sphere is hard to not have, as its the only way to deal with Ferrothorn (we really need an Arua Sphere tutor in Gen 6 :I) but i agree that forced Rash kinda sucks. Mismagius with NP i agree probably would be better. I was just trying to patch up a weakness to Gastroodon, but i never saw more than 1, lol. And is giga supposed to be gold? it says he has over 2200 points and that gold only goes to 2199, or am i missing something? I atleast know that you called my Raikou Amoongus and thats definately not the case, xD Still can't decide on what DH to use next... so many possibly viable options...

Oct 13th, 2012, 11:27:06 AM	#299
FastFlygon Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 404	Made it with Lapras. (Please don't steal it Jayde D:) I used Lavos' DD Hydrarest set and it was honestly good in pretty much every game I played. Didn't get that many sweeps, but Ice Shard + that bulk was an excellent combination, and there were a couple of stall teams I ran through since they had no way of touching it. The SR weakness is kind of annoying but REst somewhat mitigates that. The real MvP of my ladder run was Specs Jolteon, but Lapras did work every game I needed it - most often as an Alakazam check since Jolteon flat-out loses to SashZam, which is the only set people are using right now, and Waterfall+Ice Shard handily disposes of it in Rain. Peak Full Team Lapras (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Hydration EVs: 248 HP / 84 SDef / 176 Def Impish Nature - Rest - Dragon Dance - Waterfall - Ice Shard Politoed (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Drizzle EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk Bold Nature - Scald - Protect - Toxic - Perish Song Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Rain Dish EVs: 228 Def / 252 HP / 28 Spd Bold Nature - Toxic - Scald - Substitute - Protect Latias (F) @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 212 SAtk / 240 Spd / 56 HP Timid Nature - Roost - Draco Meteor - Surf - Psyshock Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Intimidate EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def Adamant Nature - Superpower - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Stealth Rock Jolteon (F) @ Choice Specs Trait: Volt Absorb EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP Timid Nature - Thunder - Hidden Power [Ice] - Volt Switch - Signal Beam Feel free to steal/tweak/tell me how crap this is :P. I'll go grab the questions and edit them in here, then perhaps see if I can get a little higher! EDIT: How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection? After I gave up on Carracosta, I was stuck trying to decide on a new horse. I didn't feel like building another Rain team, but most of the Pokemon I was interested in were either rain-dependent or had already been used pretty successfully by someone in the challenge. I correctly recognised I had no hope of beating any of the higher players (yet! :P), so after deliberating for a couple days I decided the lapras set Lavos posted looked very interesting and built another Rain team. A couple of minor tweaks later, I found myself on the Leaderboard. How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created? I figured Lapras would really love Toxic Spikes, so I added a Tentacruel to provide them, spin for it, and benefit from the inevitable rain. In the end, I changed to a SubToxic set and just deal with rocks, since Toxic Spikes were pretty useless 3 games out of 5, and Tentacruel still managed to Poison everything I needed it to most games. I obviously needed Politoed as well, and I went with a Physically defensive set because in my experience it's the only one with the longevity for a team like the one I was building. Since I had a pretty big Electric weakness forming, I added an offensive Latias, which also happened to handily check a lot of Pokemon that looked dangerous, such as Breloom, Terrakion and Keldeo. I also added a bulky Landorus-T, which seems to be a go-to Pokemon on every team I make right now. Since Ferrothorn was a tough prospect, I gave it Superpower>U-turn, and I haven't really regretted the change. It provided rocks while giving me a chance against the Outragers running around all over the place. In the final spot, I felt like I had all the crucial bases covered, but the team would appreciate something quick to tie things together at the ends of games. Jolteon was working well for me at that point in time, so I decided a Specs set would make an excellent cleanup mon. It proved me right and more, killing a Pokemon almost every game and saving my ass with a clutch paralysis every once in a while. Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common? I do think a dark horse is an asset to any team which can make the best of its strengths. However, it almost felt as though I was laddering with four dark horses, because most of my team was below 30th in the usage stats. In my experience, something a little unusual is absolutely mandatory on any successful team, but it doesn't have to be a dark horse - usage is the only truly unbiased method of determining whether something is uncommon or not, but there are Pokemon dotted all throughout the usage stats that seem to crop up more rarely and cause more trouble when they do. I didn't run into a single Tornadus-T for my entire ladder run, but if I had I would probably have been under a lot of Pressure. It's hard to pick up on Pokemon like this without spending a couple of dozen games laddering, but usage is a good subsitute. Anyway, I kind of went off on a tangent there. Lapras proved useful in almost all my battles, as noted above. In particular, nobody expected Ice Shard, which led to a lot of easy revenge kills throughout the run. Hydration is a fantastic ability that let Lapras absorb Scalds, Twaves and Spores left right and center, although I still found the team weak to sleep since both of the common carriers easily beat Lapras 1v1. I ended up valuing bulk more than sweeping ability in the case of my Dark Horse, as little bar a crit can really OHKO you. (For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon? The secret to ladder success on PS is winning early, and the DHC is no exception. Testing a couple of sets on an alt before you dive right it in a great idea, and I actually ended up playing seven or eight test games before I felt I was ready to truly begin. Overall, Lapras did pretty well, although I would probably use a slightly different set in future. The biggest piece of advice I have for people trying the challenge it to pick a pokemon with utility. That doesn't mean you have to choose a support Pokemon, but if it doesn't check anything interesting or support in any kind of interesting fashion, it will be mediocre in the majority of games. In Lapras' case, it could absorb status and also had Ice-type priority, which is invaluable all on its own, but it also has bulk enough to check a wide variety of prominent Pokemon. I will probably end up writing a RMT thread for this team, but I'll leave you with that for now. __________________ From Hell's Heart I Stab at Thee Last edited by FastFlygon; Oct 13th, 2012 at 12:40:41 PM.

Oct 13th, 2012, 11:35:02 AM	#300
Master of the Six Kings Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 791 Where soccer is the correct terminology and bacon isn't dishonest	FF: Hey man, the team doesn't look too bad! I personally have a hard time justifying Tentacruel without Rapid Spin or with Toxic when Poli already has it. How does your team deal with Scarfers resistant to Ice Shard though? Seems like Genesect would Uturn through you and pick off a few members before sweeping with Bug Buzz or Tbolt or Terrakion just need Lando out of the way.