Garchomp

AfroThunderRule · Oct 12th, 2012, 7:49:31 PM

Looks like our little sand shark buddy is back to OU, didn't see a thread about the little fella. I hope this topic is allowed here.

HP; 108
Attack: 130
Defense: 95
Special Attack: 80
Special Defense: 85
Speed: 102

Typing:

Abilities:
Sand Veil: Raises the Pokémon’s evasion during a sandstorm by one level.
Rough Skin: The opponent is hurt by 1/16th of his maximum Hit Points of recoil when using an attack, that requires physical contact, against this Pokémon.

Move Data:

Level Up moves:

...

TMs and HMs:

...

Egg Moves:

...

Move Tutor:

...

Gen 3/4 only moves:

...

Well he's back, what should we do? Spam the classic set that made him ubers in the first place? Well hold on, it seems Sand Veil is banned so we can't use Sand Veil on out favorite Sand Shark. But no worries, Garchomp is still a huge force to be reckon with in the OU metagame.

Possible sets:

Garchomp (M) @ Yache Berry / Life Orb / Salac Berry Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw / Outrage

- Fire Fang / Aqua Tail /Substitute

The classic set. Pretty standard stuff and it's also very customizable for the team you are running.

Garchomp (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 232 HP / 176 Def / 8 SDef / 92 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Very bulky, can easily live a hit phase with Dragon Tail. Be sure to use hazard support for this.

Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang

Typical revenge killer, with Scarf it can out speed all forms of Landorus, Thundrus-T, Genesect, varies base 100 Pokemon (Salamence, Jirachi)

Sorry If I'm not allowed to do this. Didn't see a topic (searched it and didn't see anything) on it and figured to make one,

Seth Vilo · Oct 12th, 2012, 7:55:12 PM

Just so it's convenient for everyone who was curious, I present the results from the Suspect test.

KurashiDragon · Oct 12th, 2012, 8:47:01 PM

Welp there goes haxorus. See you in uu buddy.

Hrm... without Sand Veil I have a feeling Garchomp will be more anti meta than anything else. That 102 speed is still very trollish with it's ability to outrun not only many scarfs with it's scarf, but most importantly it can outpace choice scarf genesect making it a worthy check to Voltturn (as it also isn't affected by Volt Switch) only time will tell how it is in the OU environment though.

Death Phenomeno · Oct 12th, 2012, 8:51:08 PM

Minor nitpick, but:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat AfroThunderRule

Gen 3/4 only moves:

...

Since Sand Veil is banned, technically those moves are not allowed.

lordkira · Oct 12th, 2012, 8:52:37 PM

Agreed with chomp being a great anti-meta mon.
The choice scarf set is as great as always.
I was wondering...wth 102-speed-wielding garchomp back in OU, how will this affect thundurus-t? I didn't play the suspect ladder much to be honest.

Personally, I'll be trying out the choice band, choice scarf, and SDYacheChomp on hyper offensive teams.

**dragonuser** · Oct 12th, 2012, 9:12:22 PM

Choice Band is also a very good set on Garchomp. It can hit ridiculously hard, and has good bulk to back it up. It has pretty much the same moves/EV's as the Choice Scarf set. For the Salac Berry set, I would recommend putting Substitute as a slash or as a main move. Just because Garchomp lost Sand Veil, doesn't mean that Substitute has lost all of its competitive use. Substitute also helps in activating Salac Berry much easier, rather than blindly hoping for a random attack to push Garchomp under 25%.

Dark Fallen Angel · Oct 12th, 2012, 9:19:43 PM

I am actually having some difficulty trying to fit Garchomp on a sandstorm team. I think that Garchomp will not actually be as great on sand without its SV ability. This is because Landorus, while having 1 less speed and not having a good flying STAB (Garchomp has two good STABs, and good attacks from both STABs, but Landorus only has good Ground attacks, it lacks a good Flying one), is technically more powerful under sandstorm, has U-Turn and has a usable (very usable) special attack. How could Garchomp do well on sand? I heard some people saying that it would actually be better on sun teams.

Zeta5 · Oct 12th, 2012, 9:32:01 PM

The fact that he's back makes my day :)

DudeOfTheCentury · Oct 12th, 2012, 9:39:12 PM

I also had a very hard time putting Big Chompers on Sand Teams. I always ran the Choice Scarf just because it outspeeds so many threats as if it were freaking priority, so OU is going to have pretty much the same deal. I'm all for the change, but because it's so damn fast and and has awesome coverage, this I'll shake up the entire OverUsed metagame. Haxorus and Hydreigon can't outspeed it, and Latios and Latias can only outspeed it with a Scarf (and if Chompy does.) STAB Earthquake hits everything hard even if it does resist it. I just fear what'll happen to the rest of the tier now that Garchomp is back.

FaceFaceFace · Oct 12th, 2012, 9:52:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DudeOfTheCentury

I just fear what'll happen to the rest of the tier now that Garchomp is back.

Rain will have competition. Which is not really a bad thing.

Dark Fallen Angel · Oct 12th, 2012, 9:58:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat FaceFaceFace

Rain will have competition. Which is not really a bad thing.

Why? I don't know why people still associate Garchomp with sandstorm. Now that it can't use Sand Veil, the only thing that it can abuse in sandstorm is the fact that he is immune to the passive sandstorm damage, and many opponents aren't.

Apart from this, Garchomp doesn't really has anything that makes him a special pokémon for sandstorm teams, and actually it can be abused on rain (with acess to Aqua Tail) and even on sun (Fire Fang) just as it can be abused on sandstorm.

Garchomp now is just like any other dragon in OU. It can be used on every team, but there is no single type that has something to wich Garchomp can really abuse with.

I am still having some difficulty trying to fit it on my sandstorm team and I think that Landorus will still give him harsh competition.

DudeOfTheCentury · Oct 12th, 2012, 10:11:09 PM

lol I just noticed something...

Garchomp's back? Choice Scarf Starmie(Max Sp.A) To the rescue!!

lordkira · Oct 12th, 2012, 10:35:35 PM

I also cannot see garchomp being any significant SS teammate. It's still a great mon in rain and sun as guy above stated. But as a dedicated SS sweeper/wallbreaker, I can't see chomp being anything special. To be honest, I find Terrakion and Landorus easier to fit into SS teams. Garchomp is still a beastly wallbreaker in sun and rain however.

tehy · Oct 12th, 2012, 10:39:37 PM

Dudeofthecentury, starmie outspeeds him anyhow, not like u need a scarf.

More like skarm to the rescue IMO.

alexwolf · Oct 12th, 2012, 10:42:13 PM

Now that Garchomp is back in OU, the madness that is called SubCM Jirachi in rain will stop. Garchomp destroyes any variant of SubCM Jirachi, as it easily comes into Thunder and tanks Psyshock / Water Pulse all day long. If Jirachi has Water Pulse, Garchomp still has 80% to OHKO Jirachi with EQ on the first turn in, assuming it is using Choice Band / LO, or that Jirachi has Subed once. 80% because Water Pulse has 40% to confuse you, and you have 50% of hitting though confusion.

CB Garchomp in general seems as a very solid poke in this meta, and helps check those motahfucking Thundurus-T, SubCM Jirachi and Genesect without having to resort to a defensive Ground type, such as Gastrodon or SpD Hippo.

StairFall · Oct 12th, 2012, 10:49:38 PM

Just ran some calculations and +2 fire fang in the sun deals 60-71 percent to physically defensive skarmory, guarantedd 2hko. I imagine that Chomp's scarf set will be somewhat less powerful now though. Mence has been running around with his new Moxie+outrage which allows him to not just revenge but outright clean through teams. Chomp seems more like he would be using his 100+ speed tier to outspeed none scarfed threats and obliterate them. A CB set with fire fang+aqua tail would make it a great anti meta stall breaker to combat sun and rain teams.

Edit: See you around BL haxorus, it's gotta suck to be number two.

The Scarecrow · Oct 12th, 2012, 11:03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat KurashiDragon

Welp there goes haxorus. See you in uu buddy.

Hrm... without Sand Veil I have a feeling Garchomp will be more anti meta than anything else. That 102 speed is still very trollish with it's ability to outrun not only many scarfs with it's scarf, but most importantly it can outpace choice scarf genesect making it a worthy check to Voltturn (as it also isn't affected by Volt Switch) only time will tell how it is in the OU environment though.

Haxorus will NOT go UU... Sure it's likely outclassed by Garchomp in many regards, but it still has its own upsides...

And even if it is used less and less thanks to Chomp, I think the worst it could do is go to BL eventually. 147 Attack and even 97 Speed (with strong sets such as DD and CB) is WAY too powerful for UU....Imo

ThePillsburyDoughBoy · Oct 12th, 2012, 11:03:57 PM

What I find that makes Garchomp so great on sandstorm is the ability for CB Tyranitar just to lure in every single common check/counter and procede to destroy it with a CB Stone Edge or Crunch. Skarmory in particular never assumes the CB Stone Edge and finds itself 2HKO'ed by it or switching out with <50% of its health.

However this will be my favorite Garchomp set (the same one I mentioned in the General Metagame thread) and it makes great use of sand damage.

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute
- Swords Dance

Essentially, Pokemon that rely on contact moves (particularly Gyro Ball) will have to face the annoying consequence of getting hit with Rough Skin+Rocky Helmet damage every time they want to break the Substitute. By just trying to get at Garchomp, you can effectively force your opponent to weaken his own counters. You have to face the decision to A. break Garchomp's spammed Substitute's while you get weaker and weaker from Sand+Rough Skin+Rocky Helmet or B. Switch out and let Garchomp get a free Substitute. This set will make for a particularly cool pseudo-spin blocker on HO teams since any Rapid Spinner will die and the effect of Rapid Spin won't take place.

Huntofthelion · Oct 12th, 2012, 11:11:21 PM

Garchomp isn't going to fit well over other sand sweepers since he doesn't get any advantage from the sand aside from being immune to the passive damage. But he's still Garchomp so he'll be able to fit on any style of team you want to play him in. His coverage moves can be tailored for sun or rain and his typing is good enough to fit on any team. He's not going to be a big fan of any specific weather to the point where he is an 'abuser' but he'll fit well on all styles of teams because he's got good typing/bulk and he's fast/strong. Sword Dance fits well if you need something to sweep or just do a lot of damage, Choice band will be difficult to switch into if you pair it with Magnezone to remove steel-types, and Choice Scarf is obviously going to be important since he out runs base 100s and is strong enough to revenge kill most threats.

I will admit I've been a little let down when trying to put Garchomp on a team because all though he is really good, his sets don't really set themselves apart like they used to. I still think he'll be the best Dragon user of Sword Dance, but Choice Scarf and Choice Band not so much. Scarf Mence isn't as good of a revenge killer, but it's a better cleaner thanks to Moxie and it's ability to run different sets. If I see a Garchomp in the coming days I'm pretty sure it's either SD or Scarf, both of which are dealt with in a similar manner, where as with Salamence it could be DD, Scarf, or Mixed which means it's a little harder to predict. As for Choice Band, Dragonite has priority and a higher attack stat so I think he'll be able to do that job a bit better.

Garchomp obviously has ground typing and speed over the other physical dragons, but he lacks that fighting resist that's really crucial in the current metagame. Don't get me wrong, I still think he's amazing and can fill all three of the above roles I mentioned plus maybe one or two other sets that aren't popular/discovered yet. But I don't think he's as defining as he used to be and that once the hype over him being unbanned passes I don't think he'll break into the top five for usage.

Dark Fallen Angel · Oct 12th, 2012, 11:27:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Huntofthelion

Garchomp obviously has ground typing and speed over the other physical dragons, but he lacks that fighting resist that's really crucial in the current metagame. Don't get me wrong, I still think he's amazing and can fill all three of the above roles I mentioned plus maybe one or two other sets that aren't popular/discovered yet. But I don't think he's as defining as he used to be and that once the hype over him being unbanned passes I don't think he'll break into the top five for usage.

To be honest, its tipying is one of main reasons why I am having difficulty to fit Garchomp on a sandstorm team. Sure, it's neutral to Water, wich is good news to sandstorm teams that have many weakness to Water-type, and has fucking amazing STABs.

But Garchomp lacks important resistances, such as to Fighting and Bug, and also lacks a Ground-type immunity. That's one of reasons why I find Landorus hard to replace with Garchomp, even considering the above factors and the extra point on speed.

There are also other reasons, such as lack of U-Turn to mantain momentum, and the fact that Garchomp is now as good on sandstorm as it is on rain and sun, only having the advantage of being immune to sandstorm damage, while Landorus has Sand Force, Terrakion gets a boost on Special Defense, Stoutland doubles speed, and so on.

Lavos Spawn · Oct 12th, 2012, 11:30:49 PM

need I say more

StairFall · Oct 12th, 2012, 11:39:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ThePillsburyDoughBoy

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute
- Swords Dance

Essentially, Pokemon that rely on contact moves (particularly Gyro Ball) will have to face the annoying consequence of getting hit with Rough Skin+Rocky Helmet damage every time they want to break the Substitute. By just trying to get at Garchomp, you can effectively force your opponent to weaken his own counters. You have to face the decision to A. break Garchomp's spammed Substitute's while you get weaker and weaker from Sand+Rough Skin+Rocky Helmet or B. Switch out and let Garchomp get a free Substitute. This set will make for a particularly cool pseudo-spin blocker on HO teams since any Rapid Spinner will die and the effect of Rapid Spin won't take place.

This set looks like it's going to be fun, my only problem is almost all substitute users have some type of passive recovery for the sake of making more than 4 substitutes. Without lefties You put a hard limit on the number of subs you can have without wish support which is always counter intuitive to abusing subs. There isn't much of a reason to have a pseudo spinblocker anyway since hyper offence usually relies on simply destroying spinners instead. Add to that that Gengar is way fast and way strong and can beat starmie because it often carries sub and this set doesn't really have any sort of niche. Ferro pulls it off much better and absolutely punishes outrage users too.

FaceFaceFace · Oct 12th, 2012, 11:59:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Dark Fallen Angel

Garchomp now is just like any other dragon in OU. It can be used on every team, but there is no single type that has something to wich Garchomp can really abuse with.

I am still having some difficulty trying to fit it on my sandstorm team and I think that Landorus will still give him harsh competition.

I just think that sand now has more options for physical dragons (I'm ruling out Dragonite here), especially one that can play like a faster Lando with a vicious stabbed Outrage.

Did anyone mention resistance to SR? Although taking spikes and TS isn't great...

UltiMario · Oct 13th, 2012, 12:16:47 AM

Garchomp isn't a Sand Dragon. It's a Sun Dragon now. Immunity to sand is just a nice bonus.

FaceFaceFace · Oct 13th, 2012, 12:28:08 AM

Well, anything that isn't pro rain gets a thumbs up from me.

Oct 12th, 2012, 7:49:31 PM	#1
AfroThunderRule I suck. Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 425 New York City	Garchomp Looks like our little sand shark buddy is back to OU, didn't see a thread about the little fella. I hope this topic is allowed here. HP; 108 Attack: 130 Defense: 95 Special Attack: 80 Special Defense: 85 Speed: 102 Typing: Abilities: Sand Veil: Raises the Pokémon’s evasion during a sandstorm by one level. Rough Skin: The opponent is hurt by 1/16th of his maximum Hit Points of recoil when using an attack, that requires physical contact, against this Pokémon. Move Data: Level Up moves: ... Start Up: Fire Fang Start Up: Tackle Start Up: Sand-Attack Start Up: Dragon Rage Start Up: Sandstorm Level 3: Sand-Attack Level 7: Dragon Rage Level 13: Sandstorm Level 15: Take Down Level 19: Sand Tomb Level 24: Dual Chop Level 28: Slash Level 33: Dragon Claw Level 40: Dig Level 48: Crunch Level 55: Dragon Rush TMs and HMs: ... TM01: Hone Claw TM02: Dragon Claw TM05: Roar TM06: Toxic TM10: Hidden Power TM11: Sunny Day TM15: Hyper Beam TM17: Protect TM18: Rain Dance TM21: Frustration TM26: Earthquake TM27: Return TM28: Dig TM31: Brick Break TM32: Double Team TM35: Flamethrower TM37: Sandstorm TM38: Fire Blast TM39: Rock Tomb TM40: Aerial Ace TM42: Facade TM44: Rest TM45: Attract TM48: Round TM54: False Swipe TM56: Fling TM59: Incinerate TM65: Shadow Claw TM68: Giga Impact TM71: Stone Edge TM75: Sword Dance TM78: Bulldoze TM80: Rock Slide TM82: Dragon Tail TM84: Poison Jab TM87: Swagger TM90: Substitute TM94: Rock Smash HM01: Cut HM03: Surf HM04: Strength Egg Moves: ... Dragon breath Outrage Twister Scary Face Double Edge Thrash Metal Claw Sand Tomb Body Slam Iron Head Mud Shot Rock Climb Iron Tail Move Tutor: ... Aqua Tail Draco Meteor Dragon Pulse Dual Chop Earth Power Iron Head Iron Tail Outrage Sleep Talk Snore Stealth Rock Gen 3/4 only moves: ... Secret Power Endure Captivate Natural Gift Whirlpool Fury Cutter Swift Mud-Slap Headbutt Well he's back, what should we do? Spam the classic set that made him ubers in the first place? Well hold on, it seems Sand Veil is banned so we can't use Sand Veil on out favorite Sand Shark. But no worries, Garchomp is still a huge force to be reckon with in the OU metagame. Possible sets: Garchomp (M) @ Yache Berry / Life Orb / Salac Berry Trait: Rough Skin EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Swords Dance - Earthquake - Dragon Claw / Outrage - Fire Fang / Aqua Tail /Substitute The classic set. Pretty standard stuff and it's also very customizable for the team you are running. Garchomp (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Rough Skin EVs: 232 HP / 176 Def / 8 SDef / 92 Spd Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Rest - Dragon Tail - Earthquake - Sleep Talk Very bulky, can easily live a hit phase with Dragon Tail. Be sure to use hazard support for this. Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Rough Skin EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Earthquake - Outrage - Dragon Claw - Fire Fang Typical revenge killer, with Scarf it can out speed all forms of Landorus, Thundrus-T, Genesect, varies base 100 Pokemon (Salamence, Jirachi) Sorry If I'm not allowed to do this. Didn't see a topic (searched it and didn't see anything) on it and figured to make one,

Oct 12th, 2012, 7:55:12 PM	#2
Seth Vilo Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 426 US East Coast	Just so it's convenient for everyone who was curious, I present the results from the Suspect test. __________________ This is a haiku. Sometimes haiku's do not rhyme. Refrigerator. Professional Lurker since March, 2009 (And it's Vilo: veye-low, like the i in pie) {Projects: How do I pronounce that Pokemon...?; ...}

Oct 12th, 2012, 8:52:37 PM	#5
lordkira Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 996 won't	Agreed with chomp being a great anti-meta mon. The choice scarf set is as great as always. I was wondering...wth 102-speed-wielding garchomp back in OU, how will this affect thundurus-t? I didn't play the suspect ladder much to be honest. Personally, I'll be trying out the choice band, choice scarf, and SDYacheChomp on hyper offensive teams. __________________ http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../bluegirl4.jpg

Oct 12th, 2012, 9:19:43 PM	#7
Dark Fallen Angel NOW THAT THE FAIRY-TYPE HAS BEEN REVEALED, I AM CLOSE TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF... FAIRY GOD PARENTS!!! Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 794 ON A GIRL ROOM :3 :3 :3	I am actually having some difficulty trying to fit Garchomp on a sandstorm team. I think that Garchomp will not actually be as great on sand without its SV ability. This is because Landorus, while having 1 less speed and not having a good flying STAB (Garchomp has two good STABs, and good attacks from both STABs, but Landorus only has good Ground attacks, it lacks a good Flying one), is technically more powerful under sandstorm, has U-Turn and has a usable (very usable) special attack. How could Garchomp do well on sand? I heard some people saying that it would actually be better on sun teams. __________________ I am starting to play Yu-Gi-Oh! again and I am looking for people who can battle alongside me and my friend Roberto, we are trying to learn to play on the Yu-Gi-Oh! metagame, I have a Dark World deck and I want to improve my skills, if anyone of you are Yu-Gi-Oh! players, please contact me on my personal page.

Oct 12th, 2012, 9:32:01 PM	#8
Zeta5 Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 60 Unda Da See	The fact that he's back makes my day :) __________________ ΖV Youtube Channel

Oct 12th, 2012, 8:47:01 PM	#3
KurashiDragon Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 763 Where the dragons take me.	Welp there goes haxorus. See you in uu buddy. Hrm... without Sand Veil I have a feeling Garchomp will be more anti meta than anything else. That 102 speed is still very trollish with it's ability to outrun not only many scarfs with it's scarf, but most importantly it can outpace choice scarf genesect making it a worthy check to Voltturn (as it also isn't affected by Volt Switch) only time will tell how it is in the OU environment though.

Oct 12th, 2012, 9:12:22 PM	#6
dragonuser I don't want to fight them again. No matter how many lives I've got, it wouldn't be enough. Moderator Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,346 Mentor	Choice Band is also a very good set on Garchomp. It can hit ridiculously hard, and has good bulk to back it up. It has pretty much the same moves/EV's as the Choice Scarf set. For the Salac Berry set, I would recommend putting Substitute as a slash or as a main move. Just because Garchomp lost Sand Veil, doesn't mean that Substitute has lost all of its competitive use. Substitute also helps in activating Salac Berry much easier, rather than blindly hoping for a random attack to push Garchomp under 25%.

Oct 12th, 2012, 9:39:12 PM	#9
DudeOfTheCentury Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 6 Connecticut	I also had a very hard time putting Big Chompers on Sand Teams. I always ran the Choice Scarf just because it outspeeds so many threats as if it were freaking priority, so OU is going to have pretty much the same deal. I'm all for the change, but because it's so damn fast and and has awesome coverage, this I'll shake up the entire OverUsed metagame. Haxorus and Hydreigon can't outspeed it, and Latios and Latias can only outspeed it with a Scarf (and if Chompy does.) STAB Earthquake hits everything hard even if it does resist it. I just fear what'll happen to the rest of the tier now that Garchomp is back. Last edited by DudeOfTheCentury; Oct 13th, 2012 at 10:29:03 AM.

Oct 12th, 2012, 10:11:09 PM	#12
DudeOfTheCentury Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 6 Connecticut	lol I just noticed something... Garchomp's back? Choice Scarf Starmie(Max Sp.A) To the rescue!! __________________ If you don't want to miss Fire Blast, just go for Flamethrower for Christ's sake Last edited by DudeOfTheCentury; Oct 14th, 2012 at 2:24:09 PM.

Oct 12th, 2012, 10:35:35 PM	#13
lordkira Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 996 won't	I also cannot see garchomp being any significant SS teammate. It's still a great mon in rain and sun as guy above stated. But as a dedicated SS sweeper/wallbreaker, I can't see chomp being anything special. To be honest, I find Terrakion and Landorus easier to fit into SS teams. Garchomp is still a beastly wallbreaker in sun and rain however. __________________ http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../bluegirl4.jpg

Oct 12th, 2012, 10:39:37 PM	#14
tehy Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,203	Dudeofthecentury, starmie outspeeds him anyhow, not like u need a scarf. More like skarm to the rescue IMO.

Oct 12th, 2012, 10:42:13 PM	#15
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,754 Greece	Now that Garchomp is back in OU, the madness that is called SubCM Jirachi in rain will stop. Garchomp destroyes any variant of SubCM Jirachi, as it easily comes into Thunder and tanks Psyshock / Water Pulse all day long. If Jirachi has Water Pulse, Garchomp still has 80% to OHKO Jirachi with EQ on the first turn in, assuming it is using Choice Band / LO, or that Jirachi has Subed once. 80% because Water Pulse has 40% to confuse you, and you have 50% of hitting though confusion. CB Garchomp in general seems as a very solid poke in this meta, and helps check those motahfucking Thundurus-T, SubCM Jirachi and Genesect without having to resort to a defensive Ground type, such as Gastrodon or SpD Hippo. __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check!

Oct 12th, 2012, 10:49:38 PM	#16
StairFall Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 147	Just ran some calculations and +2 fire fang in the sun deals 60-71 percent to physically defensive skarmory, guarantedd 2hko. I imagine that Chomp's scarf set will be somewhat less powerful now though. Mence has been running around with his new Moxie+outrage which allows him to not just revenge but outright clean through teams. Chomp seems more like he would be using his 100+ speed tier to outspeed none scarfed threats and obliterate them. A CB set with fire fang+aqua tail would make it a great anti meta stall breaker to combat sun and rain teams. Edit: See you around BL haxorus, it's gotta suck to be number two. __________________ I warned you about stairs bro! I told you dawg!

Oct 12th, 2012, 11:03:57 PM	#18
ThePillsburyDoughBoy Ttar by Doughboy Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 972 Mentor	What I find that makes Garchomp so great on sandstorm is the ability for CB Tyranitar just to lure in every single common check/counter and procede to destroy it with a CB Stone Edge or Crunch. Skarmory in particular never assumes the CB Stone Edge and finds itself 2HKO'ed by it or switching out with <50% of its health. However this will be my favorite Garchomp set (the same one I mentioned in the General Metagame thread) and it makes great use of sand damage. Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet Trait: Rough Skin EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP Jolly Nature - Earthquake - Dragon Claw - Substitute - Swords Dance Essentially, Pokemon that rely on contact moves (particularly Gyro Ball) will have to face the annoying consequence of getting hit with Rough Skin+Rocky Helmet damage every time they want to break the Substitute. By just trying to get at Garchomp, you can effectively force your opponent to weaken his own counters. You have to face the decision to A. break Garchomp's spammed Substitute's while you get weaker and weaker from Sand+Rough Skin+Rocky Helmet or B. Switch out and let Garchomp get a free Substitute. This set will make for a particularly cool pseudo-spin blocker on HO teams since any Rapid Spinner will die and the effect of Rapid Spin won't take place. __________________ Check Out the 1 vs 1 Metagame: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3483807

Oct 12th, 2012, 11:11:21 PM	#19
Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 858 Mentor	Garchomp isn't going to fit well over other sand sweepers since he doesn't get any advantage from the sand aside from being immune to the passive damage. But he's still Garchomp so he'll be able to fit on any style of team you want to play him in. His coverage moves can be tailored for sun or rain and his typing is good enough to fit on any team. He's not going to be a big fan of any specific weather to the point where he is an 'abuser' but he'll fit well on all styles of teams because he's got good typing/bulk and he's fast/strong. Sword Dance fits well if you need something to sweep or just do a lot of damage, Choice band will be difficult to switch into if you pair it with Magnezone to remove steel-types, and Choice Scarf is obviously going to be important since he out runs base 100s and is strong enough to revenge kill most threats. I will admit I've been a little let down when trying to put Garchomp on a team because all though he is really good, his sets don't really set themselves apart like they used to. I still think he'll be the best Dragon user of Sword Dance, but Choice Scarf and Choice Band not so much. Scarf Mence isn't as good of a revenge killer, but it's a better cleaner thanks to Moxie and it's ability to run different sets. If I see a Garchomp in the coming days I'm pretty sure it's either SD or Scarf, both of which are dealt with in a similar manner, where as with Salamence it could be DD, Scarf, or Mixed which means it's a little harder to predict. As for Choice Band, Dragonite has priority and a higher attack stat so I think he'll be able to do that job a bit better. Garchomp obviously has ground typing and speed over the other physical dragons, but he lacks that fighting resist that's really crucial in the current metagame. Don't get me wrong, I still think he's amazing and can fill all three of the above roles I mentioned plus maybe one or two other sets that aren't popular/discovered yet. But I don't think he's as defining as he used to be and that once the hype over him being unbanned passes I don't think he'll break into the top five for usage.

Oct 12th, 2012, 11:30:49 PM	#21
Lavos Spawn Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,318 wild west Mentor	need I say more __________________

Oct 13th, 2012, 12:28:08 AM	#25
FaceFaceFace Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 177 New Zealand	Well, anything that isn't pro rain gets a thumbs up from me.