The Dark Horse Project IV - Page 15

jaredz99 · Oct 17th, 2012, 1:54:11 PM

Pokemon Showdown! Username: HailTeamRising
Dark Horse Pokemon: Walrein, although Abomasnow was on the team
Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking: http://imgur.com/fDsPh (Rank 38, 1901 ACRE, 2013 +- 80 Glicko)
Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Set:
Walrein (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Ice Body
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SDef
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Blizzard
- Toxic

Rest of team:

...

Former members:

...

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?
Hail stall has always been a favorite playstyle of mine back since 4th gen. When Stallrein was first discovered it was theorymonned to be uber (LOL) and then, after a week, immediately ignored. But it is still a major threat. Some say stall is impossible in 5th gen, even more say that hail sucks and has no viable abusers. My goal was to revitalize my favorite playstyle and prove them wrong. NO REGRETS

How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?
Obviously Abomasnow is necessary for Walrein to be more than a useless blubber sack. Blissey is an awesome special wall and cleric. I hate Forretress, but he's a pretty good hazard setter and spinner and can take some monster physical hits. Gliscor checks physical threats like Terrakion, and Heatran is a good fire absorber as well as checking Genesect and Jirachi (in hail).

Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?
I think that hail is massively more viable with Walrein than without. Unless you are using Abomasnow as a weather counter and aren't building a team around him, I don't see hail "offense" as viable because there really aren't any boosts. Stall is the way to go and the way that hail is useful. The element of surprise does certainly play some factor but I think that most people are at lost aware of it, particularly at higher skill levels. I do think that many "highly used" teams are quite vulnerable to a Walrein "sweep".

(For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?
HoF was reached pretty quickly, other questions pretty much answered above.

Question for the people running this, when I update my ranking do I update in this post or make a new one? Thanks.

Pocket EDIT: Preferably update this post, but also post saying that you've reached a new peak & that you've updated this post ;d Congrats!

**Pocket** · Oct 17th, 2012, 2:27:21 PM

Awesome stuff, Six Kings - another 3 mons into HoF! Scarf Charizard is interesting - I know Zard wrecks in RU, but I'm curious as to how it fared in OU ;d Unfortunately it seemed like it didn't pull its weight for you. You should try adding Fire Blast > HP Grass, since it really appreciates the power boost - Solar Power and Sun alone isn't enough to forego the power move.

Seems like you're also a sucker for Expert Belt xP Thankfully, Victreebel does attain amazing coverage with those three moves!

Congrats, jaredz99 for becoming the 25th HoFer! I am pleasantly surprised that you were able to make Stallrein works in this offensive meta x_x Wasn't winning the weather war a challenge?

jaredz99 · Oct 17th, 2012, 2:47:05 PM

Winning the weather war has always been tough with hail teams, however this particular Abomasnow set is a godsend for luring in and killing Tyranitar and Politoed. Many people are far too casual with those critical pokemon and apparently don't know that
A - Politoed doesn't OHKO Abomasnow with any water move when hail is up, even specs Hydro Pump, and Wood Hammer always OHKOs Politoed (although specs hydro pump sometimes brings Aboma into a range where recoil finishes him)
B - Abomasnow is faster than most Tyranitar and Wood Hammer OHKOs every Tar I've ever used it on, bar some weird 252HP/252Def +Def nature set.
So I tend to win the weather war rather frequently.

Master of the Six Kings · Oct 17th, 2012, 2:47:33 PM

lol, me and Expert Belt. Its more that i've found even having a spinner, hazards, some weather and life orb will wear me downmore than my opponent's offesnive moves half the time :I I've just never been an LO fan. Zard was ok. I had Fire Blast as a rotating move, putting it over HP Grass and Focus Blast at points, but i was missing moves enough as is. That said, Zard pulled his weight fine most of the time. There were 2 problems with Zard that i found. 1) Switching him in prior to Solar Power damage check sucked. Just starting out with -12% is dumb. 2) He is absolutely tied to Hitmontop. Usually,t his wasn't a problem, but i kid you not, Hitmontop got critted 4 times in crucial stuations, 2 by Intimidated Mamoswine's Ice Shard which is the difference between 13-17% to 77-83% :I Which was quite frustrating =F

Really cant figure who to run with next. Im surprised no one has gotten Chandy up, though i just got done with SR weak sunny stuff. Anyone have suggestions? xD

DrunkDemon · Oct 17th, 2012, 5:20:48 PM

I'm pretty sure I won't be able to get HoF with Froslass at this point, although I did peak in the top 100. No one's gotten Empoleon yet, so I guess I'll give that a shot.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Burden
Hall of Fame Standing: none
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Sceptile
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none

edi: Nothing wrong with some competition. I've already made the team anyway, so I want to try laddering with it.
edit2: realized I hate empoleon, so switching to Sceptile.

FastFlygon · Oct 17th, 2012, 5:24:30 PM

I guess a warning's fair DrunkDeamon - I'm one battle away from HoFing with Empoleon. You're welcome, of course, to compete with me for the spot though!

As a side note, I lost my "only one loss" record, but I'm still doing pretty well with 18 wins and four losses. I'm getting to grips with the various strengths of the Pokemon on my team, and getting an idea of where the weaknesses lie. The lack of a spinblocker is probably the biggest flaw, if there is one, but finding a slot for one is proving very tough.

I may update this post with a bronze ranking in a couple of minutes, depends on whether i unheroically fail the next match or two.

Ok, made bronze rank with the team. It's honestly doing excellent so far, maintaining 5-1 win-loss pretty well. I love the amount of trickery I can pull with it - Gothitelle is plain cruel, and it seems there are still people who don't expect focus sash Alakazam... just had a guy grab +6/+6 mence against Scolipede while I got three layers and spammed rock slide inefectually, he kills 'pede, I go to zam and HP Ice and the game is effectively mine because there's nothing he can do with that many hazards on the field. I'm pretty sure i'll try to get as high as I can some point tommorow - I'm fairly confident the team could reach at least gold if played well enough. The only niggle so far is the lack of a spinblocker... but I don't know who I would replace to fit one since it seems every Pokemon is pretty crucial to victory. the only thing i can think of is more sweeping changes like swapping both Empoleon and Garchomp around... but that's inevitably going to make the team weaker to various threats.

Peak so far

The Team

Absolete · Oct 17th, 2012, 6:06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Absolete

Siiince the ladder reset, I can use my old name again, yes? New Trick Room team is up and testing.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Obsolute
Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Druddigon, Bronzong, Sableye
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: None

Changing Druddigon out for Nidoqueen!

jaredz99 · Oct 17th, 2012, 8:47:43 PM

I'll probably keep laddering with Walrein, but Meloetta is going to be my next project based on my usage of her with my last team.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: TinyDancer
Hall of Fame Standing: Bronze with Walrein (under HailTeamRising)
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Meloetta
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: Working on it

CANCELED

Huntofthelion · Oct 17th, 2012, 10:17:27 PM

Pokemon Showdown! Username: ATG2
Hall Of Fame Standing: Bronze (Heracross)
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Feraligatr
Current Ladder Standing: ---

Challenge was pretty fun the first time and laddering with normal teams is kinda boring now

YuuchyShi · Oct 17th, 2012, 10:49:40 PM

Hope it's not too late for me to join.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: NelxKon
Hall of Fame Standing: NONE!
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Whimsicott
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Pokemon Showdown!

This user has not played any ladder games yet.

**Molk** · Oct 17th, 2012, 11:29:12 PM

Made it a fourth time with durant

...

I laddered with durant expecting it to be underwhelming, but it actually pulled its weight, even compared to its other bug/steel counterparts, this is the set i used =).

OUTCLASS THIS (Durant) @ Life Orb
Trait: Hustle
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- X-Scissor
- Superpower
- Rock Slide

This is Durant's flagship set, no special gimmicks here! Anyways, Durant packs quite a punch with hustle (when it hits of course!), and even compared to OU powerhouses such as Terrakion and Haxorus, the iron bug can still keep up. With Hustle taken into account, Durant hits 475.5 attack with a neutral nature, the equivalent of 188 base attack, this surpasses even stuff like Medicham, Rampardos, and Kyurem-B, and unlike those 3, Durant sits at an incredible speed tier. 109 base Speed outruns big threats like Garchomp, Terrakion, Keldeo, and Infernape, a wonderful place to set, especially when durant can threaten all 3 with hustle boosted attacks. Even with that kind of power, Durant can have trouble charging through the opponent's team initially thanks to hustle's accuracy drop, Hone Claws fixes this! Hone Claws fixes Durant's accuracy problem, while also giving it an extra attack boost to decimate things that would have survived its attacks before. I switched around the 3 attacks quite a bit, but i feel like X-scissor/superpower/rock slide is the best coverage you can get on Durant. X-scissor is durant's best STAB, and hits like a nuke coming off of that Attack stat, it was also very useful for OHKOing Deoxys-D leads, Reuniclus, and other bulky psychics. Superpower hits Rock/Steel types incredibly hard, basically completely eliminating them as checks. Heatran can no longer wall durant early game, as now it has to worry about superpower OHKOing it. Also, superpower doesnt have as much of a drawback on durant, because it essentially just negates the hustle boost until you switch. Idk about you, but i think 109 attack is more than enough to continue attacking after you use superpower. Rock Slide hits Fliers like the therians and volcarona, who can be quite the pain otherwise. I actually only got to use rock slide once during my ladder run, but it was at a moment where i would have lost if i did, so lol okay. While Durant was pretty nice to have at times, it also had some flaws that annoyed me a bit. First off, its much harder to set up with durant when it has pitiful special bulk 58/48 isnt winning any awards defensively, so pretty much any special attack, resisted or not will do serious damage. I was still able to set up with Durant, though. Its physical bulk isnt bad, and steel is a great dual type to have if you want to set up. Durant's other main flaw was that hustle made it miss at inappropriate times if i didnt get a hone claws, sometimes making winning harder (in fact, 3 of my 4 losses were to a hustle miss ;_;). These two flaws make durant somewhat of a gamble, but if you have luck/can find a chance to set up, the payoff is more than worth it!

Okay pocket its ready now.

Also TL;DR, Durant is capable of completely destroying unprepared teams, but seriously fuck hustle ._..

EDIT: im silver now

Master of the Six Kings · Oct 18th, 2012, 1:21:46 AM

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Johhny's Liability
Hall of Fame Standing: Peaked Gold
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Metagross & Whishcash
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: ----

Time to get back to gimmicks. Whiskers is so cash.

Lady Alex · Oct 18th, 2012, 2:31:51 AM

Just a nitpick, but I peaked at #4 with Zoroark and #68 with Arcanine. It's reversed in the list lol

Pocket EDIT: fixed!

Master of the Six Kings · Oct 18th, 2012, 12:55:02 PM

Well, i got pretty high with Whiskers with two high a deviation to be on ladder 9but a glicko of over 2500) and finally got deviation under 100 menaing i've currently peaked 17th. Ill edit this when i grind down my deviation, however far i fall as i do xD

Whiskers is OP as hell xD

Edit: Finally....finally..... that took ages. My deviation was up so high i thought i'd never get it back down. Not my highest overall score, but i got higher than i did with T-nadus and Raikou o.o and Gold again with a much, much cooler Poke :D I've really been enjoying the DH challenge but this is by far my favorite team yet. With these two guys in, i'll have 10 DH Pokemon in the HoF now, and most of them have been pretty viabe. Still got a bit less than half the month to go, too. Looking to hit 13 at least, though i doubt i'll hold on to all of them.

proof

full team sets

explinations/thoughts

Last time there was the DH challenge, i managed to squeak in at the lowest marks with Eelektross, an NU weird eel thing that wasn't particularlly good, but i was proud to achieve status with. I tried to repeat this effect with Zangoose, but failed miserably. Looking through the bottom of the NU barrel, i was unimpressed and turned to RU where Crawdaunt caught my eye. I tried to build around him, but realized he needed more bulk to do what he was supposed to do: DD and sweep. I looked up who else could get DD in the lower rungs and immediately knew it had to be Whiscash. In team builing, i knew i needed an Encore Politoed to set uprain and chances to DD up. I grabbed Tentacruel next because he is my absolute Rain staple. He sponges special hits so well it isnt funny. Thundurus was a hard sell, but i had to have a Thunder weakness covered, and needed something with a Fighting type move. My team was looking good, but had some problems with common Scarfers: Genesect, Garchomp, Salamence and problems in general with Dragonite and Latios. Jirachi and Metagross provided perfect covers to these weaknesses. This is the second time that leading with a Fire weilding scarfer on a Rain team has nulified my Genesect weakness entirely in my DHing :F I had the team set, and started battling.

Whiscash outpreformed what i could ever imagine for it. I tweaked his evs to outspeed bulky Rotom-W, allowing me to survive a Hydro, DD up, and Rest stall it out of Hydros or until it misses. I initially thought i was weak to Ferrothorn, but found that of all thing, Whiskers could set up on Power whipless Ferros with ease. Peaking at 12th, my team of misfits never lost a game that wasn't close (and most that were lost i applaud Focus Miss for) and at one point my lovely Whiskers swept a team 6-0. I usually only needed 3 DDs under my belt to weaken team to the point the rest of the team could handle it, and with 4 Pokes to hit Grass types super effectively, my Whiskers only died to grass moves twice in about 40 games (Giga Drain Volc and Power Whip Ferro i had to sac him on). Whiscash is the only thing i've ever used that can take Scalds without falling to burn and actually set up in front of all these bulky waters in the metagame. Metagross also proved marvelous, almost always being my last Pokemon revealed and punching holes in Pokemon rendered useless by his Air Balloon of dismay. After a few games i realized I forgot to put Rocks on my team, and tried to find the room. I do wish i had Rocks a lot of the time, but it was never worth a move or a Pokemon i had on me. If only Politoed or Tenta got rocks lol. Metagross is really liking the new format, and f Kyurem-B comes down, he will be even better in it, and Wishcash proved to be a very useful OU mon. It suffers from that 4 slot syndrome, desperately needing a physical Ice move and Spark, but with proper team support and planning, he can always go 1 for 1 at worst.

jaredz99 · Oct 18th, 2012, 8:21:34 PM

Alright, Meloetta is not being friendly to me. I'm going to switch to my absolute favorite pokemon of all time, Lapras, and try to dethrone the guy who already made it in. So to be clear, no more Meloetta.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Transport Pokemon
Hall of Fame Standing: Bronze with Walrein (under HailTeamRising)
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Lapras
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: Working on it

**Molk** · Oct 18th, 2012, 8:48:03 PM

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Bored As Fuck
Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Smeargle, Gorebyss, and Nidoking
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1000

as you can probably tell, im really bored right now, lol

**Arcticblast** · Oct 18th, 2012, 10:27:18 PM

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Darkticblast
Hall of Fame Standing: lol you serious bro
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Swoobat
Current Ladder Standing: 1000 I guess

Lavos Spawn · Oct 18th, 2012, 11:19:35 PM

I would like to make a quick point on how surprisingly viable Basculin is in this metagame. Adaptability + Drizzle + Choice Band = really strong Waterfall / Aqua Jet, and while Azumarill does hit barely harder, it doesn't have 295 Speed to flaunt, a trait that Basculin possesses and can use to its advantage in many different scenarios. Instead of coming in and being slower than something, and having to Aqua Jet to scare it off, Basculin can outspeed a lot of stuff and thus go straight for the Waterfall, which means twice the oomph right off the bat. Its lack of any substantial bulk is disappointing, but the great Speed makes up for it, at least for my heavily offensive team. (I'm in the high 2200s right now, but my rank is still provisional, so hopefully I'll keep racking up wins and break my old grandmaster record.)

If anyone has any input on Basculin, I'd be interested in hearing it.

**Pocket** · Oct 19th, 2012, 12:57:16 AM

Molk and Six Kings, you're still going strong ;D I'm surprised that you didn't use the OU Durant's set on-site (Iron Head / Thunder Fang / Superpower), but being able to OHKO Deoxys-D with X-Scissor is 2 Gud. Rock Slide / Stone Edge would be a better coverage than Thunder Fang, in that case.

Props to Six Kings for adding his 10th mon into HoF! I'm glad you found success with your team, although it's certainly a weird team x_x I was expecting Scizor or Tornadus-T to molest Grass-types and Dragon-types, but seems like you found other ways in dealing with them ;d Congrats, for entering Gold class the 2nd time!

Lavos, I haven't tried using Basculin in OU, but I've certainly played a ton with it on RU in my Rain team. Basculin is hitting ~8% harder than Adamant Gyarados, which is impressive. It's still no Kyu-B, though, which can snap bones with a flick of its fingers - it still needs significant team support to get past bulky water-resists and the like. The fact that it can 2HKO Skarmory & Latias and OHKO Blissey in the rain deserves some major cool points! Aqua Jet is an amazing revenge-killing utility in the rain, scraping off ~65% of Genesect's health and 50+% off of Garchomp; Landorus and Terrakion just don't stand a chance!

**Molk** · Oct 19th, 2012, 3:12:05 AM

made it, and got my tenth dark horse mon :D

...

Overall, this was pretty easy, but yeah its smashpass so lol. Anyways on to the descriptions!

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Spore
- Shell Smash
- Ingrain
- Baton Pass

Smeargle was really impressive for me during my little smashpass run, and was easily the key to the team's success. This Smeargle does one thing and one thing only: It passes shell smashes to its teammates to set up a sweep. Although Smeargle was only capable of doing one thing, it did it very well, and almost never failed to pull off at least one smashpass during the match. With a Focus Sash and my Dual Screens Espeon helping him out, Smeargle could easily come in after a KO or on a weak attack/status move and set up a Shell Smash. From there Smeargle could simply spore the opposing pokemon to sleep and then provide the recipient with a pretty much free switch. A lot of the time it was simply game over right there, which was really awesome! Smeargle is also my secret weapon against phazers, being able to set up an ingrain on a predicted roar/whirlwind and completely screw up my opponent's strategy, from there i could pass to Nidoking, Gyarados, or Jirachi and win without much trouble. Im rather curious to see what other smeargle sets would be capable of, but on paper this is both the best possible smeargle set, and best possible smashpasser in this metagame. My battles reflected just how threatening smeargle is, causing instant forfeits in 5 matches once it set up. Underestimate this beagle at your own risk :3.

Gorebyss @ White Herb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 24 SDef / 232 Spd
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Substitute
- Baton Pass

Gorebyss was my secondary Smashpasser just in case smeargle wasnt able to do its job, and if nothing else, gorebyss was an amazing fallback passer if something went wrong (hax.....). Unlike Smeargle, Gorebyss has offensive stats to speak of, meaning that Gorebyss itself was capable of sweeping my opponents team if it had to. Gorebyss was also very useful if i needed to pass very quickly against a rain team, thanks to swift swim. Gorebyss was also one of my weapons against ditto thanks to substitute, and a smashpassed pokemon behind a substitute is pretty much impossible to stop, which was pretty nice as well. Something to note while using Gorebyss is that some scarfers still outspeed it quite easily, so if you want to sweep with your gorebyss, you will have to remove those first. Another reason i chose to use gorebyss over another BP recipient was because Smeargle's smashpasses still came along with the lowered defenses sometimes, which could be quite the pain if my opponent has priority, if i could set up gorebyss, this problem was negated, and i could pass and sweep without having to worry about things like Ice Shard and Extremespeed ruining my fun. I actually used ice beam during my ladder run until the last match or so for some odd reason.... Substitute would have come in handy a lot earlier. Overall, Gorebyss was kinda overshadowed by Smeargle during my Smashpass run, but it still pulled its weight, and did several things that Smeargle couldnt hope to do (sweep on its own and set up a smash when not at full health).

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower

Before i move on about nidoking, look at it and tell me it doesnt look absolutely badass, stare in awe at the mighty power of the king of the....purple hamster rat thing.....okay moving on. The main thing i have to say about Nidoking is that its probably the best Baton Pass recipient in the game except for maybe Landorus-I. I actually forgot Landorus-I existed when i was making this team, and almost switched out Nidoking mid run, but i learned that Nidoking had a few small perks that actually helped out quite a bit. First Off, Nidoking doesnt need to rely on Hidden Power ice to hits dragons, the Therians, and Gliscor, which saves Nidoking a little bit of hp from time to time. Nidoking also has thunderbolt, unlike Landorus, allowing it to OHKO/2HKO Bulky Waters that Landorus would usually have trouble with, as well as getting rid of Gyarados. Flamethrower helped out a lot vs ferrothorn, and while Landorus has Focus Blast for him, it misses way too much for me to consider it a reliable way of beating it ;_;. Nidoking also comes packed with a handy Stealth Rock resistance and immunity to Toxic, which helped a bunch against chansey, who Nidoking was capable of 2hkoing after two boosts =). Nidoking wasnt dead weight if it didnt recieve a pass, either. Checking things like breloom and revenge killing Terrakion in a pinch, for example. Nidoking is still a decent wallbreaker even without a shell smash passed to it as well, using its unmatched coverage and good power to tear up the opposition. Overall, i really liked Nidoking, and while it does have some competition with Landorus-I, i feel that the King is still capable of making itself stand out with its superior super effective coverage and small perks like that.

Im probably going to keep laddering with this team, it was really fun to use, if not very cheap :3.

Huntofthelion · Oct 20th, 2012, 3:56:00 PM

...

Got to Silver with Feraligatr, really wasn't that hard he's pretty good in the current metagame. The set I used:

...

Might look awful at first, with the only redeeming thing being aqua jet which Azumarill does better, and while his coverage isn't great and he's not immediately strong he does a couple of really awesome things. First thing I loved about him is that he breaks through Ferrothorn and Jellicent at +2, which with max HP wasn't hard to get at all. Aqua Jet in the rain is really strong for priority, and it's strong in general after the +2 boost. Torrent makes him really dangerous since often the way I'd set up was on an attack I knew would hurt but wouldn't kill, and then I'd get to torrent very fast and basically smash my way through the other team.

Obviously he needs to be on a rain team, but other then that I didn't give him any additional support other then SR which every sweeper wants. He more than pulled his weight and was really a surprise for me, as I figured he'd pretty much just be a revenge killer and occasionally sweep a really bad team. You have to wear down the other team a little before he can go through and he does have some things he just can't break but overall in the late game he's a definite force. In short, I loved him.

Lady Alex · Oct 20th, 2012, 4:19:12 PM

Updated my Zapdos post. Successfully knocked out the person who held it before.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: DHTESTDHTEST
Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Froslass, Shaymin, Bronzong, Blastoise, Weavile, Chandelure
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: None

**Pocket** · Oct 21st, 2012, 12:30:06 AM

The Bronze class has been weeded out a bit as Lady Alex wiped Ricky Horror's record and HuntoftheLion moving up to Silver Class!

That Sub Agility BPass Zapdos is a cool set - I'm pretty sure it works well as a lone BPer if you wanna. Lady Alex, which teammate was replaced for Zapdos? How does your BP team usually deal against the ubiquitous Tornadus-T? You're soo close to Gold xd

I'm really liking the recent Water-types being experimented right now, from Lavos's Basculin to Hunt's Feraligatr! Congrats for making it to so high with Feraligatr, HuntoftheLion :D. I've playtested SDGatr back in BW1 and it was indeed legit, as you've claimed. Ice Punch over Crunch is worth trying, since it lets you hit Dragonite and Tornadus-T for super-effective damage. +2 Rain LO Aqua Jet can sure clean, though!

Lady Alex · Oct 21st, 2012, 1:42:08 AM

Umbreon was replaced. The last spot in a baton pass team is really malleable. So far, I think zapdos is probably the best last slot I've tested, since it's flying resistance and special bulk in general can be essential in dealing with Tornadus-T. Against rain teams, I always lead with zapdos. If they start with Politoed and perish song on the agility, that's fine, since I can switch to ninjask beacuse they'll be too afraid of the thunderbolt. Usually it's just a free agility though. Same thing with Tornadus-T. I've yet to see one who is confident enough to try to taunt Zapdos.

Patolegend! · Oct 22nd, 2012, 4:08:53 PM

Made it to Bronze with Toxicroak, updated original post!

Oct 17th, 2012, 1:54:11 PM	#351
jaredz99 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 59	Pokemon Showdown! Username: HailTeamRising Dark Horse Pokemon: Walrein, although Abomasnow was on the team Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking: http://imgur.com/fDsPh (Rank 38, 1901 ACRE, 2013 +- 80 Glicko) Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Set: Walrein (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Ice Body EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SDef Bold Nature - Substitute - Protect - Blizzard - Toxic Rest of team: ... Abomasnow (F) @ Expert Belt Trait: Snow Warning EVs: 252 Atk / 112 SAtk / 144 Spd Lonely Nature - Wood Hammer - Hidden Power [Fire] - Ice Shard - Earthquake Forretress @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def Relaxed Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Stealth Rock - Rapid Spin - Spikes - Volt Switch Blissey (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef Bold Nature - Aromatherapy - Softboiled - Seismic Toss - Toxic Heatran @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP Timid Nature IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def - Earth Power - Fire Blast - Substitute - Toxic Gliscor @ Toxic Orb Trait: Poison Heal EVs: 184 Def / 252 HP / 72 Spd Impish Nature IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd - Earthquake - Taunt - Roost - Toxic Former members: ... Meloetta @ Leftovers Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP Modest Nature IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def - Calm Mind - Psychic - Shadow Ball - Focus Blast I actually really liked Meloetta, but Genesect and Jirachi were huge problems, so Heatran became necessary. How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection? Hail stall has always been a favorite playstyle of mine back since 4th gen. When Stallrein was first discovered it was theorymonned to be uber (LOL) and then, after a week, immediately ignored. But it is still a major threat. Some say stall is impossible in 5th gen, even more say that hail sucks and has no viable abusers. My goal was to revitalize my favorite playstyle and prove them wrong. NO REGRETS How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created? Obviously Abomasnow is necessary for Walrein to be more than a useless blubber sack. Blissey is an awesome special wall and cleric. I hate Forretress, but he's a pretty good hazard setter and spinner and can take some monster physical hits. Gliscor checks physical threats like Terrakion, and Heatran is a good fire absorber as well as checking Genesect and Jirachi (in hail). Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common? I think that hail is massively more viable with Walrein than without. Unless you are using Abomasnow as a weather counter and aren't building a team around him, I don't see hail "offense" as viable because there really aren't any boosts. Stall is the way to go and the way that hail is useful. The element of surprise does certainly play some factor but I think that most people are at lost aware of it, particularly at higher skill levels. I do think that many "highly used" teams are quite vulnerable to a Walrein "sweep". (For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon? HoF was reached pretty quickly, other questions pretty much answered above. Question for the people running this, when I update my ranking do I update in this post or make a new one? Thanks. Pocket EDIT: Preferably update this post, but also post saying that you've reached a new peak & that you've updated this post ;d Congrats! Last edited by Pocket; Oct 17th, 2012 at 2:08:39 PM.

Oct 17th, 2012, 2:27:21 PM	#352
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,181 Bergenfield	Awesome stuff, Six Kings - another 3 mons into HoF! Scarf Charizard is interesting - I know Zard wrecks in RU, but I'm curious as to how it fared in OU ;d Unfortunately it seemed like it didn't pull its weight for you. You should try adding Fire Blast > HP Grass, since it really appreciates the power boost - Solar Power and Sun alone isn't enough to forego the power move. Seems like you're also a sucker for Expert Belt xP Thankfully, Victreebel does attain amazing coverage with those three moves! Congrats, jaredz99 for becoming the 25th HoFer! I am pleasantly surprised that you were able to make Stallrein works in this offensive meta x_x Wasn't winning the weather war a challenge? __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Oct 17th, 2012, 2:47:33 PM	#354
Master of the Six Kings Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 791 Where soccer is the correct terminology and bacon isn't dishonest	lol, me and Expert Belt. Its more that i've found even having a spinner, hazards, some weather and life orb will wear me downmore than my opponent's offesnive moves half the time :I I've just never been an LO fan. Zard was ok. I had Fire Blast as a rotating move, putting it over HP Grass and Focus Blast at points, but i was missing moves enough as is. That said, Zard pulled his weight fine most of the time. There were 2 problems with Zard that i found. 1) Switching him in prior to Solar Power damage check sucked. Just starting out with -12% is dumb. 2) He is absolutely tied to Hitmontop. Usually,t his wasn't a problem, but i kid you not, Hitmontop got critted 4 times in crucial stuations, 2 by Intimidated Mamoswine's Ice Shard which is the difference between 13-17% to 77-83% :I Which was quite frustrating =F Really cant figure who to run with next. Im surprised no one has gotten Chandy up, though i just got done with SR weak sunny stuff. Anyone have suggestions? xD Last edited by Master of the Six Kings; Oct 17th, 2012 at 3:27:07 PM.

Oct 17th, 2012, 5:20:48 PM	#355
DrunkDemon Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 200 A Gansta's Paradise	I'm pretty sure I won't be able to get HoF with Froslass at this point, although I did peak in the top 100. No one's gotten Empoleon yet, so I guess I'll give that a shot. Pokemon Showdown! Username: Burden Hall of Fame Standing: none Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Sceptile Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none edi: Nothing wrong with some competition. I've already made the team anyway, so I want to try laddering with it. edit2: realized I hate empoleon, so switching to Sceptile. __________________ Miep: The season finale is thirty minutes of Andrea's feet BobbyVaporeon: is it sexy Miep: No Miep: it's veiny Miep: and with crusty nails Last edited by DrunkDemon; Oct 19th, 2012 at 7:59:57 PM.

Oct 17th, 2012, 5:24:30 PM	#356
FastFlygon Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 399	I guess a warning's fair DrunkDeamon - I'm one battle away from HoFing with Empoleon. You're welcome, of course, to compete with me for the spot though! As a side note, I lost my "only one loss" record, but I'm still doing pretty well with 18 wins and four losses. I'm getting to grips with the various strengths of the Pokemon on my team, and getting an idea of where the weaknesses lie. The lack of a spinblocker is probably the biggest flaw, if there is one, but finding a slot for one is proving very tough. I may update this post with a bronze ranking in a couple of minutes, depends on whether i unheroically fail the next match or two. Ok, made bronze rank with the team. It's honestly doing excellent so far, maintaining 5-1 win-loss pretty well. I love the amount of trickery I can pull with it - Gothitelle is plain cruel, and it seems there are still people who don't expect focus sash Alakazam... just had a guy grab +6/+6 mence against Scolipede while I got three layers and spammed rock slide inefectually, he kills 'pede, I go to zam and HP Ice and the game is effectively mine because there's nothing he can do with that many hazards on the field. I'm pretty sure i'll try to get as high as I can some point tommorow - I'm fairly confident the team could reach at least gold if played well enough. The only niggle so far is the lack of a spinblocker... but I don't know who I would replace to fit one since it seems every Pokemon is pretty crucial to victory. the only thing i can think of is more sweeping changes like swapping both Empoleon and Garchomp around... but that's inevitably going to make the team weaker to various threats. Peak so far The Team Singularity (Genesect) @ Expert Belt Trait: Download Shiny: Yes EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature - U-turn - Flamethrower - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt Event Horizon (Gothitelle) (F) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Shadow Tag EVs: 16 HP / 240 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Thunderbolt - Trick - Thunder Wave - Psyshock Accretion Disc (Garchomp) (F) @ Choice Band Trait: Rough Skin EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef Jolly Nature - Outrage - Earthquake - Dragon Claw - Sleep Talk Quark Star (Scolipede) (F) @ Bug Gem Trait: Swarm EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP Jolly Nature - Megahorn - Spikes - Earthquake - Rock Slide Supernova (Alakazam) (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Magic Guard EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP Timid Nature - Psyshock - Focus Blast - Thunder Wave - Hidden Power [Ice] Rogue Planet (Empoleon) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Torrent EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def Calm Nature - Stealth Rock - Grass Knot - Scald - Roar __________________ From Hell's Heart I Stab at Thee Last edited by FastFlygon; Oct 17th, 2012 at 6:09:50 PM.

Oct 17th, 2012, 2:47:05 PM	#353
jaredz99 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 59	Winning the weather war has always been tough with hail teams, however this particular Abomasnow set is a godsend for luring in and killing Tyranitar and Politoed. Many people are far too casual with those critical pokemon and apparently don't know that A - Politoed doesn't OHKO Abomasnow with any water move when hail is up, even specs Hydro Pump, and Wood Hammer always OHKOs Politoed (although specs hydro pump sometimes brings Aboma into a range where recoil finishes him) B - Abomasnow is faster than most Tyranitar and Wood Hammer OHKOs every Tar I've ever used it on, bar some weird 252HP/252Def +Def nature set. So I tend to win the weather war rather frequently.

Oct 17th, 2012, 8:47:43 PM	#358
jaredz99 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 59	I'll probably keep laddering with Walrein, but Meloetta is going to be my next project based on my usage of her with my last team. Pokemon Showdown! Username: TinyDancer Hall of Fame Standing: Bronze with Walrein (under HailTeamRising) Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Meloetta Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: Working on it CANCELED Last edited by jaredz99; Oct 18th, 2012 at 8:21:50 PM.

Oct 17th, 2012, 10:17:27 PM	#359
Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 857 Mentor	Pokemon Showdown! Username: ATG2 Hall Of Fame Standing: Bronze (Heracross) Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Feraligatr Current Ladder Standing: --- Challenge was pretty fun the first time and laddering with normal teams is kinda boring now Last edited by Huntofthelion; Oct 17th, 2012 at 10:19:34 PM. Reason: can't spell -_-

Oct 17th, 2012, 11:29:12 PM	#361
Molk Recipe for disaster Moderator Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,233 Long Island	Made it a fourth time with durant ... I laddered with durant expecting it to be underwhelming, but it actually pulled its weight, even compared to its other bug/steel counterparts, this is the set i used =). OUTCLASS THIS (Durant) @ Life Orb Trait: Hustle EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spd Jolly Nature - Hone Claws - X-Scissor - Superpower - Rock Slide This is Durant's flagship set, no special gimmicks here! Anyways, Durant packs quite a punch with hustle (when it hits of course!), and even compared to OU powerhouses such as Terrakion and Haxorus, the iron bug can still keep up. With Hustle taken into account, Durant hits 475.5 attack with a neutral nature, the equivalent of 188 base attack, this surpasses even stuff like Medicham, Rampardos, and Kyurem-B, and unlike those 3, Durant sits at an incredible speed tier. 109 base Speed outruns big threats like Garchomp, Terrakion, Keldeo, and Infernape, a wonderful place to set, especially when durant can threaten all 3 with hustle boosted attacks. Even with that kind of power, Durant can have trouble charging through the opponent's team initially thanks to hustle's accuracy drop, Hone Claws fixes this! Hone Claws fixes Durant's accuracy problem, while also giving it an extra attack boost to decimate things that would have survived its attacks before. I switched around the 3 attacks quite a bit, but i feel like X-scissor/superpower/rock slide is the best coverage you can get on Durant. X-scissor is durant's best STAB, and hits like a nuke coming off of that Attack stat, it was also very useful for OHKOing Deoxys-D leads, Reuniclus, and other bulky psychics. Superpower hits Rock/Steel types incredibly hard, basically completely eliminating them as checks. Heatran can no longer wall durant early game, as now it has to worry about superpower OHKOing it. Also, superpower doesnt have as much of a drawback on durant, because it essentially just negates the hustle boost until you switch. Idk about you, but i think 109 attack is more than enough to continue attacking after you use superpower. Rock Slide hits Fliers like the therians and volcarona, who can be quite the pain otherwise. I actually only got to use rock slide once during my ladder run, but it was at a moment where i would have lost if i did, so lol okay. While Durant was pretty nice to have at times, it also had some flaws that annoyed me a bit. First off, its much harder to set up with durant when it has pitiful special bulk 58/48 isnt winning any awards defensively, so pretty much any special attack, resisted or not will do serious damage. I was still able to set up with Durant, though. Its physical bulk isnt bad, and steel is a great dual type to have if you want to set up. Durant's other main flaw was that hustle made it miss at inappropriate times if i didnt get a hone claws, sometimes making winning harder (in fact, 3 of my 4 losses were to a hustle miss ;_;). These two flaws make durant somewhat of a gamble, but if you have luck/can find a chance to set up, the payoff is more than worth it! Okay pocket its ready now. Also TL;DR, Durant is capable of completely destroying unprepared teams, but seriously fuck hustle ._.. EDIT: im silver now __________________ 16:46 <TLCNU> Esca literally is 2HKO'd by Stoutland Fire Fang 10:33 skylight molk put me in your sig Last edited by Molk; Oct 18th, 2012 at 3:22:14 AM.

Oct 18th, 2012, 1:21:46 AM	#362
Master of the Six Kings Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 791 Where soccer is the correct terminology and bacon isn't dishonest	Pokemon Showdown! Username: Johhny's Liability Hall of Fame Standing: Peaked Gold Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Metagross & Whishcash Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: ---- Time to get back to gimmicks. Whiskers is so cash.

Oct 18th, 2012, 2:31:51 AM	#363
Lady Alex So, I dashed all over the mansion, and I re-killed them; they were pretty alive when I found them Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 418 Stuck between a Stealth Rock and a hard place	Just a nitpick, but I peaked at #4 with Zoroark and #68 with Arcanine. It's reversed in the list lol Pocket EDIT: fixed! __________________ Last edited by Pocket; Oct 18th, 2012 at 3:30:56 AM.

Oct 18th, 2012, 12:55:02 PM	#364
Master of the Six Kings Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 791 Where soccer is the correct terminology and bacon isn't dishonest	Well, i got pretty high with Whiskers with two high a deviation to be on ladder 9but a glicko of over 2500) and finally got deviation under 100 menaing i've currently peaked 17th. Ill edit this when i grind down my deviation, however far i fall as i do xD Whiskers is OP as hell xD Edit: Finally....finally..... that took ages. My deviation was up so high i thought i'd never get it back down. Not my highest overall score, but i got higher than i did with T-nadus and Raikou o.o and Gold again with a much, much cooler Poke :D I've really been enjoying the DH challenge but this is by far my favorite team yet. With these two guys in, i'll have 10 DH Pokemon in the HoF now, and most of them have been pretty viabe. Still got a bit less than half the month to go, too. Looking to hit 13 at least, though i doubt i'll hold on to all of them. proof full team sets Metagross @ Air Balloon Trait: Clear Body EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef Adamant Nature - Ice Punch - Bullet Punch - Earthquake - Meteor Mash Politoed @ Leftovers Trait: Drizzle EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk Bold Nature - Encore - Scald - Toxic - Protect Jirachi @ Choice Scarf Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef Jolly Nature - Fire Punch - Iron Head - Ice Punch - U-turn Tentacruel @ Black Sludge Trait: Rain Dish EVs: 240 Def / 252 HP / 16 Spd Bold Nature - Rapid Spin - Scald - Sludge Bomb - Knock Off Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Volt Absorb EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def Timid Nature - Thunder - Focus Blast - Hidden Power [Ice] - Substitute Whiskers (Whiscash) @ Leftovers Trait: Hydration EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 220 Def / 32 Spd Careful Nature - Dragon Dance - Waterfall - Earthquake - Rest explinations/thoughts Last time there was the DH challenge, i managed to squeak in at the lowest marks with Eelektross, an NU weird eel thing that wasn't particularlly good, but i was proud to achieve status with. I tried to repeat this effect with Zangoose, but failed miserably. Looking through the bottom of the NU barrel, i was unimpressed and turned to RU where Crawdaunt caught my eye. I tried to build around him, but realized he needed more bulk to do what he was supposed to do: DD and sweep. I looked up who else could get DD in the lower rungs and immediately knew it had to be Whiscash. In team builing, i knew i needed an Encore Politoed to set uprain and chances to DD up. I grabbed Tentacruel next because he is my absolute Rain staple. He sponges special hits so well it isnt funny. Thundurus was a hard sell, but i had to have a Thunder weakness covered, and needed something with a Fighting type move. My team was looking good, but had some problems with common Scarfers: Genesect, Garchomp, Salamence and problems in general with Dragonite and Latios. Jirachi and Metagross provided perfect covers to these weaknesses. This is the second time that leading with a Fire weilding scarfer on a Rain team has nulified my Genesect weakness entirely in my DHing :F I had the team set, and started battling. Whiscash outpreformed what i could ever imagine for it. I tweaked his evs to outspeed bulky Rotom-W, allowing me to survive a Hydro, DD up, and Rest stall it out of Hydros or until it misses. I initially thought i was weak to Ferrothorn, but found that of all thing, Whiskers could set up on Power whipless Ferros with ease. Peaking at 12th, my team of misfits never lost a game that wasn't close (and most that were lost i applaud Focus Miss for) and at one point my lovely Whiskers swept a team 6-0. I usually only needed 3 DDs under my belt to weaken team to the point the rest of the team could handle it, and with 4 Pokes to hit Grass types super effectively, my Whiskers only died to grass moves twice in about 40 games (Giga Drain Volc and Power Whip Ferro i had to sac him on). Whiscash is the only thing i've ever used that can take Scalds without falling to burn and actually set up in front of all these bulky waters in the metagame. Metagross also proved marvelous, almost always being my last Pokemon revealed and punching holes in Pokemon rendered useless by his Air Balloon of dismay. After a few games i realized I forgot to put Rocks on my team, and tried to find the room. I do wish i had Rocks a lot of the time, but it was never worth a move or a Pokemon i had on me. If only Politoed or Tenta got rocks lol. Metagross is really liking the new format, and f Kyurem-B comes down, he will be even better in it, and Wishcash proved to be a very useful OU mon. It suffers from that 4 slot syndrome, desperately needing a physical Ice move and Spark, but with proper team support and planning, he can always go 1 for 1 at worst. Last edited by Master of the Six Kings; Oct 18th, 2012 at 4:36:55 PM.

Oct 18th, 2012, 8:21:34 PM	#365
jaredz99 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 59	Alright, Meloetta is not being friendly to me. I'm going to switch to my absolute favorite pokemon of all time, Lapras, and try to dethrone the guy who already made it in. So to be clear, no more Meloetta. Pokemon Showdown! Username: Transport Pokemon Hall of Fame Standing: Bronze with Walrein (under HailTeamRising) Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Lapras Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: Working on it

Oct 18th, 2012, 8:48:03 PM	#366
Molk Recipe for disaster Moderator Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,233 Long Island	Pokemon Showdown! Username: Bored As Fuck Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Smeargle, Gorebyss, and Nidoking Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1000 as you can probably tell, im really bored right now, lol __________________ 16:46 <TLCNU> Esca literally is 2HKO'd by Stoutland Fire Fang 10:33 skylight molk put me in your sig

Oct 18th, 2012, 10:27:18 PM	#367
Arcticblast is going goat Moderator Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,975 #serperiors Mentor	Pokemon Showdown! Username: Darkticblast Hall of Fame Standing: lol you serious bro Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Swoobat Current Ladder Standing: 1000 I guess __________________ New to Smogon? Afraid to jump into discussion? Introduce yourself! ------------------- Fail Cup \| Scramble! \| RMTs: Blistering Sands (BH) Night Stall (OU) \| ARcTicblast \| Demon Spawn \| signature art by Zracknel additional credit to Pocket and AccidentalGreed

Oct 18th, 2012, 11:19:35 PM	#368
Lavos Spawn Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,181 Mentor	I would like to make a quick point on how surprisingly viable Basculin is in this metagame. Adaptability + Drizzle + Choice Band = really strong Waterfall / Aqua Jet, and while Azumarill does hit barely harder, it doesn't have 295 Speed to flaunt, a trait that Basculin possesses and can use to its advantage in many different scenarios. Instead of coming in and being slower than something, and having to Aqua Jet to scare it off, Basculin can outspeed a lot of stuff and thus go straight for the Waterfall, which means twice the oomph right off the bat. Its lack of any substantial bulk is disappointing, but the great Speed makes up for it, at least for my heavily offensive team. (I'm in the high 2200s right now, but my rank is still provisional, so hopefully I'll keep racking up wins and break my old grandmaster record.) If anyone has any input on Basculin, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Oct 19th, 2012, 12:57:16 AM	#369
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,181 Bergenfield	Molk and Six Kings, you're still going strong ;D I'm surprised that you didn't use the OU Durant's set on-site (Iron Head / Thunder Fang / Superpower), but being able to OHKO Deoxys-D with X-Scissor is 2 Gud. Rock Slide / Stone Edge would be a better coverage than Thunder Fang, in that case. Props to Six Kings for adding his 10th mon into HoF! I'm glad you found success with your team, although it's certainly a weird team x_x I was expecting Scizor or Tornadus-T to molest Grass-types and Dragon-types, but seems like you found other ways in dealing with them ;d Congrats, for entering Gold class the 2nd time! Lavos, I haven't tried using Basculin in OU, but I've certainly played a ton with it on RU in my Rain team. Basculin is hitting ~8% harder than Adamant Gyarados, which is impressive. It's still no Kyu-B, though, which can snap bones with a flick of its fingers - it still needs significant team support to get past bulky water-resists and the like. The fact that it can 2HKO Skarmory & Latias and OHKO Blissey in the rain deserves some major cool points! Aqua Jet is an amazing revenge-killing utility in the rain, scraping off ~65% of Genesect's health and 50+% off of Garchomp; Landorus and Terrakion just don't stand a chance! __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Oct 19th, 2012, 3:12:05 AM	#370
Molk Recipe for disaster Moderator Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,233 Long Island	made it, and got my tenth dark horse mon :D ... Overall, this was pretty easy, but yeah its smashpass so lol. Anyways on to the descriptions! Smeargle @ Focus Sash Trait: Own Tempo EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Spore - Shell Smash - Ingrain - Baton Pass Smeargle was really impressive for me during my little smashpass run, and was easily the key to the team's success. This Smeargle does one thing and one thing only: It passes shell smashes to its teammates to set up a sweep. Although Smeargle was only capable of doing one thing, it did it very well, and almost never failed to pull off at least one smashpass during the match. With a Focus Sash and my Dual Screens Espeon helping him out, Smeargle could easily come in after a KO or on a weak attack/status move and set up a Shell Smash. From there Smeargle could simply spore the opposing pokemon to sleep and then provide the recipient with a pretty much free switch. A lot of the time it was simply game over right there, which was really awesome! Smeargle is also my secret weapon against phazers, being able to set up an ingrain on a predicted roar/whirlwind and completely screw up my opponent's strategy, from there i could pass to Nidoking, Gyarados, or Jirachi and win without much trouble. Im rather curious to see what other smeargle sets would be capable of, but on paper this is both the best possible smeargle set, and best possible smashpasser in this metagame. My battles reflected just how threatening smeargle is, causing instant forfeits in 5 matches once it set up. Underestimate this beagle at your own risk :3. Gorebyss @ White Herb Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 252 HP / 24 SDef / 232 Spd Timid Nature - Shell Smash - Surf - Substitute - Baton Pass Gorebyss was my secondary Smashpasser just in case smeargle wasnt able to do its job, and if nothing else, gorebyss was an amazing fallback passer if something went wrong (hax.....). Unlike Smeargle, Gorebyss has offensive stats to speak of, meaning that Gorebyss itself was capable of sweeping my opponents team if it had to. Gorebyss was also very useful if i needed to pass very quickly against a rain team, thanks to swift swim. Gorebyss was also one of my weapons against ditto thanks to substitute, and a smashpassed pokemon behind a substitute is pretty much impossible to stop, which was pretty nice as well. Something to note while using Gorebyss is that some scarfers still outspeed it quite easily, so if you want to sweep with your gorebyss, you will have to remove those first. Another reason i chose to use gorebyss over another BP recipient was because Smeargle's smashpasses still came along with the lowered defenses sometimes, which could be quite the pain if my opponent has priority, if i could set up gorebyss, this problem was negated, and i could pass and sweep without having to worry about things like Ice Shard and Extremespeed ruining my fun. I actually used ice beam during my ladder run until the last match or so for some odd reason.... Substitute would have come in handy a lot earlier. Overall, Gorebyss was kinda overshadowed by Smeargle during my Smashpass run, but it still pulled its weight, and did several things that Smeargle couldnt hope to do (sweep on its own and set up a smash when not at full health). Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Sheer Force EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Earth Power - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Flamethrower Before i move on about nidoking, look at it and tell me it doesnt look absolutely badass, stare in awe at the mighty power of the king of the....purple hamster rat thing.....okay moving on. The main thing i have to say about Nidoking is that its probably the best Baton Pass recipient in the game except for maybe Landorus-I. I actually forgot Landorus-I existed when i was making this team, and almost switched out Nidoking mid run, but i learned that Nidoking had a few small perks that actually helped out quite a bit. First Off, Nidoking doesnt need to rely on Hidden Power ice to hits dragons, the Therians, and Gliscor, which saves Nidoking a little bit of hp from time to time. Nidoking also has thunderbolt, unlike Landorus, allowing it to OHKO/2HKO Bulky Waters that Landorus would usually have trouble with, as well as getting rid of Gyarados. Flamethrower helped out a lot vs ferrothorn, and while Landorus has Focus Blast for him, it misses way too much for me to consider it a reliable way of beating it ;_;. Nidoking also comes packed with a handy Stealth Rock resistance and immunity to Toxic, which helped a bunch against chansey, who Nidoking was capable of 2hkoing after two boosts =). Nidoking wasnt dead weight if it didnt recieve a pass, either. Checking things like breloom and revenge killing Terrakion in a pinch, for example. Nidoking is still a decent wallbreaker even without a shell smash passed to it as well, using its unmatched coverage and good power to tear up the opposition. Overall, i really liked Nidoking, and while it does have some competition with Landorus-I, i feel that the King is still capable of making itself stand out with its superior super effective coverage and small perks like that. Im probably going to keep laddering with this team, it was really fun to use, if not very cheap :3. __________________ 16:46 <TLCNU> Esca literally is 2HKO'd by Stoutland Fire Fang 10:33 skylight molk put me in your sig

Oct 20th, 2012, 3:56:00 PM	#371
Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 857 Mentor	... http://www.iaza.com/zpages/displayim...6517319400.jpg Got to Silver with Feraligatr, really wasn't that hard he's pretty good in the current metagame. The set I used: ... Feralitgatr@Life Orb Trait: Torrent EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD Adamant Nature - Sword Dance - Aqua Jet - Crunch - Superpower Might look awful at first, with the only redeeming thing being aqua jet which Azumarill does better, and while his coverage isn't great and he's not immediately strong he does a couple of really awesome things. First thing I loved about him is that he breaks through Ferrothorn and Jellicent at +2, which with max HP wasn't hard to get at all. Aqua Jet in the rain is really strong for priority, and it's strong in general after the +2 boost. Torrent makes him really dangerous since often the way I'd set up was on an attack I knew would hurt but wouldn't kill, and then I'd get to torrent very fast and basically smash my way through the other team. Obviously he needs to be on a rain team, but other then that I didn't give him any additional support other then SR which every sweeper wants. He more than pulled his weight and was really a surprise for me, as I figured he'd pretty much just be a revenge killer and occasionally sweep a really bad team. You have to wear down the other team a little before he can go through and he does have some things he just can't break but overall in the late game he's a definite force. In short, I loved him.

Oct 20th, 2012, 4:19:12 PM	#372
Lady Alex So, I dashed all over the mansion, and I re-killed them; they were pretty alive when I found them Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 418 Stuck between a Stealth Rock and a hard place	Updated my Zapdos post. Successfully knocked out the person who held it before. Pokemon Showdown! Username: DHTESTDHTEST Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Froslass, Shaymin, Bronzong, Blastoise, Weavile, Chandelure Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: None __________________ Last edited by Lady Alex; Oct 20th, 2012 at 5:50:43 PM.

Oct 21st, 2012, 12:30:06 AM	#373
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,181 Bergenfield	The Bronze class has been weeded out a bit as Lady Alex wiped Ricky Horror's record and HuntoftheLion moving up to Silver Class! That Sub Agility BPass Zapdos is a cool set - I'm pretty sure it works well as a lone BPer if you wanna. Lady Alex, which teammate was replaced for Zapdos? How does your BP team usually deal against the ubiquitous Tornadus-T? You're soo close to Gold xd I'm really liking the recent Water-types being experimented right now, from Lavos's Basculin to Hunt's Feraligatr! Congrats for making it to so high with Feraligatr, HuntoftheLion :D. I've playtested SDGatr back in BW1 and it was indeed legit, as you've claimed. Ice Punch over Crunch is worth trying, since it lets you hit Dragonite and Tornadus-T for super-effective damage. +2 Rain LO Aqua Jet can sure clean, though! __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Oct 21st, 2012, 1:42:08 AM	#374
Lady Alex So, I dashed all over the mansion, and I re-killed them; they were pretty alive when I found them Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 418 Stuck between a Stealth Rock and a hard place	Umbreon was replaced. The last spot in a baton pass team is really malleable. So far, I think zapdos is probably the best last slot I've tested, since it's flying resistance and special bulk in general can be essential in dealing with Tornadus-T. Against rain teams, I always lead with zapdos. If they start with Politoed and perish song on the agility, that's fine, since I can switch to ninjask beacuse they'll be too afraid of the thunderbolt. Usually it's just a free agility though. Same thing with Tornadus-T. I've yet to see one who is confident enough to try to taunt Zapdos. __________________

Oct 22nd, 2012, 4:08:53 PM	#375
Patolegend! Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 23	Made it to Bronze with Toxicroak, updated original post!